The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Mastering Communication: Bridging the Intention to Action Gap with Yosi Kossowsky

Episode Date: March 9, 2025

Mastering Communication: Bridging the Intention to Action Gap with Yosi Kossowsky Linkedin.com/in/ykossowsky About the Guest(s): Yosi Kossowsky is a seasoned executive coach with over 18 years of experience, leveraging a robust background as a CTO and Senior Director of Talent Management. Specializing in leadership development, personal growth, and effective communication, Yossi uses neuroscience and organizational development principles to aid leaders globally. He assists them in navigating complex challenges, building high-performing teams, and driving meaningful change. His methodologies focus on transitioning individuals and teams from intention to action, fostering cultures of trust and collaboration. Episode Summary: In this engaging episode of The Chris Voss Show, Chris welcomes Yosi Kossowsky, a distinguished executive coach with a passion for leadership development and effective communication. Yosi shares his unique journey from an early career in engineering and IT to mastering the art of executive coaching. His approach, grounded in neuroscience, emphasizes understanding subjective perception and bridging the gap between intention and action. Through lively anecdotes and practical insights, Yossi delves into prevalent challenges faced by leaders today, offering strategies to overcome communication barriers and enhance team collaboration. Throughout the conversation, Yosi discusses the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions and the impact of clear communication on building trust within teams. With Chris, he explores common pitfalls in leadership, such as the "intention to action" gap and the dangers of a victim mindset. Yosi highlights the need for leaders to actively engage in confirming and validating communication to ensure alignment with their teams. This episode is packed with actionable advice and thought-provoking insights, making it a valuable listen for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills. Key Takeaways: Subjective Perception and Communication: Understand that perception is subjective and influenced by individual filters, requiring intentional efforts to ensure effective communication. Intention to Action Gap: Recognize the gap between knowing what to do and actual implementation, which often requires experiential learning and guidance. Victim Mindset: Avoid the victim mindset that relinquishes personal agency. Embrace empowerment to enact personal and professional change. Effective Validation Strategies: Use techniques like confirming and validating communication to improve clarity and understanding, fostering better teamwork and results. Leadership Development: Employ a neuroscience-based approach to enhance leadership skills and build trust within teams, contributing to productivity and collaboration. Notable Quotes: "Perception is completely subjective. Every one of us has a filter system in our brain that we're pretty much unaware of." "The only one who's gonna solve your shit is you." “Life is either happening to you or for you. Whichever way you believe, you're right.” "It takes leverage… we do need to find that internal leverage because there's no amount of external leverage I've seen that will really bring about internal change." "Own your agency… you can bite the hand that feeds you, or you can choose how you play it."

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The show is free. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or The Chris Foss Show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Anyway, guys, we have an amazing young man on the show. Today, we're going to be talking to him about his amazing insights and you're going to learn a lot from him. Yoshi Oski. Do I get that right, Yoshi? Yoshi? Yeah, pretty much, except for it's Yoshi, not Yoshi. Even though people call me that

little green Nintendo animal all the time, so I don't know why. We'll fix that in editing. You know, I have Yo-C phonetically in here and I still munched it, so my apologies. Yo-C Koskowski. Kosowski. Koskowski. Yo-C Koskowski.

All right, that'll fix it in edit. So welcome to the show. How are you, sir? I'm doing the show. How are you, sir? I'm doing very well. How are you doing, Chris? You're a seasoned executive coach with over 18 years of experience and a background as a CTO and senior director of talent management. You specialize in leadership development, personal growth, and effective communication,

leveraging neuroscience and original organizational development principles. He helped leaders across the globe navigate complex challenges, build high performing teams and drive meaningful change. Getting ready to learn actual strategies to enhance your leadership skills and foster a culture of trust and collaboration. So he's got the lead in too as well. So welcome to show giveusyour.com. Where do you want people to get to know you better on the interwebs? The best place is LinkedIn. So my name is Yossi Kosavsky, which you'll see obviously in the show notes and at the title. And if you search that on LinkedIn, you'll find

me. Being linked to the Chris Foss show. So give us like a 30,000 overview of what you do there for yourself and your clients. So my big focus, Chris, is really helping leaders and teams be more effective. And I think every coach would say that. My approach as you gave in with the lead in is very neuroscience based. When I got into this, so before getting into coaching, I was an engineer. And before an engineer, I was in IT. I was in a completely different space and mindset.

And when I started having an opportunity to play more of a leadership role, I got feedback that I wasn't doing a good job. And the thing for me, the disassociation was I had read books, I had taken some courses, I thought I understood what to do, I'd been told what to do, I'm like following that. And the reality was that people's experience of me wasn't what I thought it should be based on what I understood to do. And the harsh reality I came to was I might know what to do, but I certainly didn't know how to do it. I didn't, you know, and ever since then, I have really started being hyper aware of the

difference between what to do and how you put it into action. And so then I started looking at the books and say, why can't books tell me how to do things? And the more that I learned, the more that I kind of realized it's really hard for a book to tell every human being how to do something. That's something that we seem to learn experientially. And that ultimately means if I want to help people learn the how-to's, I got to be out there with them and walking them through and supporting them.

So let's say in a simple form, what I'm out there to do is help my clients learn how to do the things that they want to do better, to be better and help others be better. Pete Slauson What are some of the things you find your clients are running into now that are really popular challenges or I don't know, popular challenges. It sounds like it's a fad. I have challenges. I'm just keeping up with the latest. What are the major problems you see people coming to you for help for?

So I would say the number one top most popular challenge of today, not going to be surprising, is communication skills. And maybe because we are always talking and listening, we think, okay, this is one of those things. It's kind of like breathing, you know, we all breathe. But yet if you ever studied meditation, then you would find out that not all breathing is equal. And similarly, not all speaking and listening is equal. So the big focus is going into the mechanics of a little bit. In neuroscience, what we learn is that that perception is completely subjective. What that means is that every one of us has a filter system in our brain that we're pretty much unaware of. And it's been forming and storming

and norming ever since we were born and it keeps on growing. It's a combination of everything, you know, the way your parents brought you up, your personality, any religious influences, your peers, all of these things that we picked up and we keep on picking up. And because it's kind of happening, like that really fundamental layer for us, we're really rarely aware that that's what's happening. If we could understand that a buy into perception is completely subjective, what that really translates to right now is I am saying words, you're hearing words, but your brain is changing my words.

The problem is I don't know how your brain is changing my words. I just know that it's happening and that's happening with all your listeners. So if I want to be more effective in my communication, I've got to bridge that gap between what I want you to get it, walk away with in here to what you are hearing. So what you're saying is McDonald's has really good Big Macs. Is that, did I understand what you say? The best flame broiled burgers is is that Burger King, right? I mean...

You know, I was listening to every word you say, but you're right. We all have our own rose-colored filters, sometimes our own biases maybe. Our biases play into that a little bit. Yep. They're part of the filter system. You know, a lot of people don't, you know, listening seems to be one thing that people don't do anymore anymore or reading retention. You know, one of the biggest problems is you send an email to somebody, they'll read like

the first line or half the first line and then they'll answer and send back and you're like, you didn't read the other three parts, three questions. So you know, and so many people, if you ask them to solve problems for them or help with something, a lot of times they think they understood what you heard. And some of it's a little bit of projecting, right? Like, you're projecting out what you think based upon your beliefs on what the person said. And what's an old game that you used to play in high school where you would tell something to one, you'd sit in a circle and you tell some, yeah.

Yeah. Tell us, do you remember how that worked? Yeah. You would basically say somebody would start off with the word and then you would whisper to the person and then whisper, whisper, whisper and see what came back to the originator. And it was never, it was never what the first one started off with. Yeah, you could go from the word is Bob and you know, by the time they get done, it's wood or something, I don't know. Or I think there were scenarios sometimes you tell people a story or something, wasn't it?

Yeah, I mean, what I found is that it doesn't really make a difference that that fundamental experience of the game of telephone is what is happening all the time. And I would say my starting metric with most people that I'm working with is what is the average percentage of time that you get back what you want from others the very first time, meaning I've asked you to do something. We sat down, we've talked about it. I've answered your questions and I'm like, okay, Chris, go. I need it by Friday and then Friday comes and I get it. I'm like, what, what is that? So what is the average percentage that you get back what you want from others the very first time? 10% right. And on average, because some people are like, oh, I know this person really well.

We've been working together for years. So they really are pretty good about it. Okay. But on average, right, as you're working with people, and the higher up you are in your organization, the more that telephone game plays out. And the knock on effect is, if I don't get back what I want the first time, I've got to go solve for it. So that often means going back to the person or the people and saying to them, hey, that's not what I wanted. Now, I don't know if you've ever been on the receiving side of being told that's not what

somebody wanted. Have you? Pete Slauson That's most of my dates actually on Tinder. They're like, I'm not what you want. You're not what I wanted. So bye. Pete Slauson And so how did that feel when they say that to you?

Pete Slauson I've gotten used to it. So I just kind of expect it. It's the when it's weird is when they're like, oh, you're exactly what I want. I'm like, what? Do you know me? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Except for that, you know, you're you're you're you got a beard and you got to be that. So anyway, yeah. Yeah, that's so what you're saying is they're like, you know, you'd be perfect for me, but you got that nose and you know, you got you got that beard and I've seen that Yeah, they're like, I'm sorry man you got you got everything but that one thing your fingernails are just too long it'll never work You like damn it. I was so close.

As they say, that only works in horseshoes, man. Yeah. So close. Horseshoes in nuclear war or horses. There we go. Buy a nose. There we go. Jumping right on in. So how do we, how do we try and make sure that what we're communicating and what people are doing are, how would we make sure that people are really understanding us?

Do we have to choke them while we're talking to them and shake them a few times, or do we have to shine a light in their face and say, what did I just say to you? Like an FBI agent or something? So, you know, funny enough, out of all of that, the what I just say to you? Like an FBI engine or something. So, you know, funny enough out of all of that, the what did I say to you piece is the answer. If you could reach your hands through the camera,

you know, squeeze a couple of throats, that might help. But ultimately it is saying, hey, can you, ultimately in some version of repeating back what you heard, whether it's these are the action items I'm gonna take, this is my general understanding, anything but a yes or no answer. Right. So what people love to do is, Hey, anybody, any questions, anybody? And everyone's like, no, that tells you squat about what anything is.

And so it's, if you're, I call it a confirming and, and validating. So if I am the speaker, I need to validate. I need to ask you, what did you hear? And if I am the listener, I need to confirm what I heard with some open version of this is what I heard. This is my takeaways. These are my action items. So the thing to say to somebody,

how do you approach that without making, talking down to someone like, hey, stupid, did you understand what I said? Because that's how I would do it. So, that is the funniest thing, because that is the number one resistance is I don't want other people to feel like I'm making like, I think they're stupid, you know? And so, I'm like, okay, what if you take the onus of responsibility on you? Right? So rather than, Hey, Chris, you're an idiot, right? Repeat back to me what I said.

I can say, Chris, I'm the idiot. I know that I can't speak clearly. So can you just let me know what you thought you heard me say? That would really help me understand how bad I miscommunicated. I like that. I like that. That beats, that beats, you know, when I tell the wives, I'm in Utah, so I'm going to use wives for this joke. I just said wives, so I normally do a callback

for 10 previous divorces. Anyway, so normally, yeah, when I tell the wives, I'm like, I don't think you heard me correctly. That doesn't turn out well. So I like this thing of saying, you know, I want to make sure that I, you know, sometimes I don't communicate very well. You know, you take the default on it and then you say, can you just make sure you understand, make sure you understood me correctly? Or can you just tell me what you're, you know, if you understood what I said, or if I made sense, maybe, maybe that's a good way to do it. David Erickson But even if you did make sense, right? If you said, you know, I've got, I've got aliens in my head

and I'm like, you got aliens in your head. So I repeated back to you what you said. It doesn't mean I understood it or what I know what to do with it. What am I going to do with the aliens in your head? That would be a follow on question. So we got to use, we got to use like a thought process along with it. I wish this was just a bunch of switches we could throw and follow the script. But ultimately, if I can just again understand that what I'm saying, you're not fully hearing, not because you're dumb and not because I'm terrible, but because that's the way our brains work. So let's create a bridge and not make it weird.

Pete Huston Hmm. Don't make it weird. You know, we do that so much in our conversations throughout the day where we communicate to one another, we just assume that I must have said what I said. we communicate to one another, we just assume that I must have said what I said. And then a lot of times that interpretation gets lost. And then as a leader, you know, one of the things I've always had to deal with is the fallout where if I tell somebody to do something, either give them instructions or a task or, you know, whatever the case is, and they don't do it right, I have to, if I really want to be self-actualized, self-accountable, at least I think this way, I would say to myself, Chris, maybe I didn't communicate correctly.

Maybe that was the problem. You kind of have to, at first you kind of have to take ownership of the, you know, maybe I didn't communicate correctly and talk to them about it. And so a lot of times when you ask that, you know, they're like, oh, I assumed that you meant this or I assumed you meant that, or I didn't know you had a timeline on it, you know, that sort of thing. So, I mean, do you have to always be clarifying or when, when do you really use that clarifying when you're really trying to communicate something effective or a task or things or do I have to do that all day long with people at this

point? I love that question. I get that all the time as well. So my answer is really simple. How often do you care about getting the thing back that you want? Ah, so it's only when I care then. Only when you care. If you don't care, who cares?

Okay, don't worry about it. So when I tell somebody, pick me up a Big Mac and they bring me back a quarter pounder. I don't know why we're doing McDonald's callback jokes on the show. We should get a check for this people. Pete Slauson Get your sponsors, man. Pete Slauson Every show has got its own callbacks and they just form on their own intuitively. You work with, what sort of individuals do you work with? Do they need a minimum net worth, job title? Are there certain individuals you don't work with?

David Erickson So I can't say that I've ever been that picky. I do want to get paid. Pete Slauson Yeah, that's always good. David Erickson Because you need to pay the bills. Pete Slauson Check has to clear then basically. David Erickson Yeah. I really work with people that, or I should say, I really work with people that I choose to work with people who want to make a difference in themselves and therefore make a difference in others because there is a gap between intention and action for many, many people.

And crossing that gap, that's not simple. If we would, we would never have this problem of New Year's resolutions dying off by February. But intention to action is a hard space to go. And, you know, I've got a couple of my favorite sayings and one of them is the one attributed to Einstein that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and hoping for a different result, that's not going to get you anywhere in coaching. So if that's your mindset, I'm not a good person to work with. Pete Slauson I mean, some people, some people, they love hiring coaches and sometimes they love getting advice, but they don't listen to it a lot of times. I remember one time I helped a friend manage properties

in the 2008 market crash, and he'd spent probably 20 grand going to five or six different real estate courses, conferences, to learn how to, coaches to learn how to buy and sell real estate, and he bought, and when he bought these four properties during the this is before the real estate crisis when You know, you could just sign for anything pretty much and they'd bring you be alone Like you you have six houses you can afford and here's one more good and sign this paper here And I said to him I says do you realize you have done like everything wrong?

Did you're supposed to do in real estate investing. I mean, one of the factors was he bought these properties like $2,500 a month. This is 2008 people. Don't write me on YouTube like you do. It was $2,500 a month, but the market cap for three to four bedrooms was $1,400 at the time in Las Vegas. And so he was literally $1,100 over the highest point that the market would pay for the homes to rent them on four properties. So he's like

$4,000 upside down. And he's like, we just need to find somebody who will rent these. And it's like, no, you know, it's like me selling a half million dollar used mercedes-benz average mercedes-benz model whatever one is and and i'm just like i just have to find somebody's really rich will pay for this piece of turd and you're like and you're like it's dude it's a used vehicle that was worth 50000 when it was new and you're trying to sell it for it. It's not going to fight. I think they call that like the lost something, fallacy, the lost... Lost cause fallacy or I think I know what you're referring to. You keep on just throwing bad money.

The sunken cause fallacy. That's how you can call it. Right. Yeah. It's my first 10 marriages. Anyway, yeah, I was like, how did you go to all those speakers and trainers for real estate? You spent 20 plus grand.

You went to five or six of these big things and you ignored every single damn principle, like you just threw it all out the window. And so I think, I don't know if that's a good example of what you're saying, but clearly whoever communicated, he just did not listen with the time game. So there's always this interesting factor, which is, are you hoping that somebody else is going to solve your problem? Ah, is that part of it? For me, that's been a big part of the self-discovery when I'm working with people is they keep

on going to the person, next person, next person, because they're hoping somebody else will solve their problem. Magic, magical thinking. Pete Slauson Is that why maybe some of the, I mean, I'm not bashing Tony Robbins, he's a nice guy, he helped me. But one of the things that, with Tony Robbins is, I got his tapes, like this is in the 80s or 90s. Pete Slauson Right. Pete Slauson I think I saw, I first met him in 1989 when he could

just, you know, he could fill a room with a hundred people and you could walk up and shake his hand. And he just barely put out unlimited power at the time. But I read his books, I listened to the tapes and I changed my life. But I've never had to go to an Anthony Robbins event since. But then I know people that they've been to like 20 events. I'm not saying everybody goes to 20 events. Don't write me about anti-Robbins, but I met some people that you've been like, you know, 10, 20 times and they're still a mess. And you're like, are you listening to anything that anti-Robbins tells you?

So yeah, there's that difference between listening and applying. And so again, I call it the intention to action gap. It is hard to cross that gap. And if we're thinking that I want the easy way out and maybe easy way for some is spending thousands and thousands or tens of thousands of dollars on going to the next person, the next person. Yeah. But the only one who's going to solve your shit is you. I like that. You need to put that on a coffee cup or a shirt. The only one who's going to solve

your shit is you.com. Well, now that domain is gone. Before I get to it after this call, that's gone. Thanks a lot. It's Yeah, it might be. It's too long to remember anyway, so it'll be fine. But seriously though, it's pretty funny. And so I would meet these people that would go to these, and Anthony Robbins is just an example, but they're kind of hooked on these motivational coaches and they love the juice. They go to the event and they come back, I'm going to change my life. I'm going to do everything I just heard. And they do nothing, but then they go to the event and they come back, I'm going to change my life, I'm going to do everything I just heard and they do nothing. But then they go to the next event. So I think that's an example of what you're talking about, how they want somebody else to save their own, to help them. I've been guilty, I probably have in my audible cabinet

of books from Amazon, I probably have so many books that I bought. And I think there's a psychology sort of thing where sometimes we buy books or we buy things and we think that there's kind of like some sort of subconscious assimilation that since I bought the book, I must have acquired the knowledge just because it's, you know, people do have a Chris Voss show. They're like, I subscribe to Chris Voss show, but I don't listen to every other episode. So I think I'm smarter, but, and you are actually in that case. So... Oh, listen, I'm smarter just by listening to you. So it's been great. Yeah, absolutely. So what are you, you help leaders build trust, delegate effectively and drive results. And

I imagine that helps build trust and better relationships if you're making sure that what you're communicating, they're receiving. And then I would imagine the alternative that is, and I'm thinking of maybe some relationships with people, is making sure that if somebody communicates something you that they want, a way to build better trust and relationships is to say, okay, so just so that I understand you correctly, here's what I understood is what you said in maybe taking that initiative. Yeah, right.

So that's the other side of the coin, which is if you're the listener and the speaker's not asking you, what did you hear, what's your takeaways, you have that complete agency, action to say to the speaker, hey Chris, this is what I'm taking away. This is what I hear. This is what you want from you, right? And hopefully you're listening, and you're detecting

whether or not something's missing, or, you know, it's burgers on and I got everything right. And your order is going to get, you know, what you want. And all joking aside for a second, I asked leaders to look at this as an experiment. Try it out. See what you find. And you know, yeah, you know, it's really important about that.

The other side of that on the flipping of the coin is I've done that with people sometimes Because I'll be like, okay, just so I understand what you're saying, this is what you want. Good. And I'm really exact on following, you know, what needs to be done. And then later, you'll go to them, they're like, hey, this didn't get done. You're like, no, I asked you specifically what you wanted, and you said this. and then you confirmed it, you know? And so I got double communication from you and now you're telling me you still didn't do it correctly. You know, having to me, yeah, being safe on both sides of that coin is really important, I think.

Yeah. And so there's, I wish this was like, you know, one surface, unfortunately there's layers to this whole communication thing, which is what keeps me employed, by the way. So I'm grateful that it's not easy. But there's, there's the, the, there's another element that I like to call the ambiguity gap. I like gaps. So ambiguity gap and ambiguity gap is any word that we use that doesn't inherently have a metric attached to it. So if I say, Chris, I need you to be faster, I need you to be slower, I need you to be

more effective, I need you to be more strategic, I need you to get it to me by the end of the week, anything like that, there's no metric. What is faster? What is slower? What is more effective? What is clearer? What is nicer? What does any of these words mean? Practically, in the sense that you've got a definition, I've got a definition, but we never validated or clarified that we had the same definition. So inherently, when I say, Oh, Chris must have meant that he wants like a really big hamburger, my version of a big hamburger and your version of a big hamburger, not the same thing. So I get your hamburger, you know, like, what the hell is this little small little thing, man? I can't have 20 of these.

Or, you know, I guess as long as you're doing McDonald's callback jokes like I say I want a tall hamburger or a big hamburger and I'm thinking you know the the tall Big Mac and you're thinking the roundness of a quarter pounder and his quarter pound is quarter pounder uh in weight uh you're like that's a big hamburger I'm thinking talking Big Mac you're thinking quarter pounder sort of thing I'm going I'm a little hungry right now, evidently. So, evidently, that's what's going on. Don't go to those people. That's unhelpful. So, tell us a little bit about your journey through life. How did you grow up? How are you raised? What were some of the influences that guided you and gave you some of the great experience you have so far? Pete Slauson Okay. I don't know how much time you've

got in the show. Pete Slauson We only have a limited time. You got to keep it, compress it down to a few minutes instead of years. Okay. You and I have been alive for a long time. A long, long time. It all started when I was a kid in diapers. Yeah, it probably did actually. I'll start when I was a kid in diapers.

So, one of my early memories growing up in Denver in the early 70s was getting to third grade and finding out that I couldn't go back to the day school that I was going to because the teachers thought I was dumb. And you know, I'm whatever it is, seven years, eight years old, and I don't really understand what's going on, but I do like seven. Oh, but how old were you all, you're all going to don't really understand what's going on, but I do understand it. Pete Slauson You're like seven! David Erickson Oh, but I heard over your old, you're older than going to third grade. You're older than seven, ten, I guess.

Pete Slauson He's dumb, that's seven. David Erickson Yeah, psychiatrists, I can't do numbers still. And I just started understanding that I must be retarded and broken. And I did, they sent me to another school, to Catholic school, who was able to help me learn how to read and do other things. Much later on in life, I started to understand that part of the way my brain works is not the way standards are the most common teaching methods. I can't put letters together to sounds. I recognize words by sight rather than bounding them out.

But early 70s in Denver, they didn't teach that way and I didn't know how to learn. So that was a big influence on me that I carried as a bag of, you know, trash around that I sucked and I wasn't good enough. Like I'm not good enough sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. And I know most people have that bag of trash in their own version, that was mine.

And I don't want to make light of it. I mean, that was one influence. The second one was growing up in a religious family where the sense of God was very present and the idea of doing to others as you want done to yourself, be responsible, be respectable was very, very drilled into me. And then as I, you know, got older, I was very influenced as a kid that because I was dumb, I should do something with my hands like mechanics or something that I liked. And I actually was pretty good about that. But a lot of my family were into the whole therapy space and helping others space. And I'm like, I want to really help others. So when I got to college, which was a whole story in and of itself, I won't bore you with that.

I even decided to go to college. I started, I went into psychology as my major and I started doing well and I'm like, oh, maybe I'm not dumb. A whole, you know, but life happened and I went into technology, went into IT, did that for about 10 years, then did engineering for a whole bunch of years,

loved all that. And then, as I said, the story about being not good at people led me into this space of studying people. And I found out that was a bigger love. And through that exploration, I started to understand that I was carrying around all this garbage that was not helping me be the person I wanted to be, not helping me show up in the world the way person I wanted to be, not helping me be, show up in the world the way that I wanted to be.

And I started learning about limiting beliefs, limiting perspectives, and how that drives my behaviors and my actions. And I, in a sense, I am grateful that I had all of those experiences now. I wasn't grateful in any way then, but I am grateful now that I had them because otherwise I don't know if I would have learned the lessons I learned. And I don't think I would be on your show right now otherwise. So we knew we needed to get you on the show and whatever. Yeah. So.

Listen, I mean, what would my life be like without Chris Voss Show? I mean, seriously. Yeah, what would I be like without the Chris Voss Show? The world would be a horrible place. Anyway, you know, it's interesting to me, I grew up around religion. And so, it made me try and understand what people were communicating to me. And one of the problems I had was to put the faith part because for some reason I was this kid born who wanted logic and reason and proof. And so, I would get a lot of, well, you just gotta trust us. I'm like, yeah, I

don't know about this. I don't understand why we can't prove some stuff. And then you're just being told to shut up and just have faith, you know, you're just, and then being, you know, accused of being heresy and stuff. Pete Slauson Right. Pete Slauson You're heretic. Pete Slauson You know, burning it across and stuff. I just started learning to watch people. And I think I was an introvert when I was, it's hard for people to believe when I tell them

that, I was an introvert when I was young. And I think watching people and learning from people and kind of feeling the same way you did where people were telling me I wasn't quite smart because I wasn't just having faith, made me try and pay attention more and improve myself. And I think that, you know, I'm looking back at it, and maybe you can say the same thing for your child and I don't want to speak for you, but sometimes that little scar, that trauma ends up really helping you in life because you kind of over trying to overcompensate for it and I can look back on my life and go I really wish I didn't grow up in a religious cult But on the other hand, I don't know that I would be the person I would be and achieve the the wonderful things I I liked in my life. I want I don't know that I'd be an entrepreneur

I don't know that I don't know what kind of person I would be. And on one end, you can look at the traumas that you've experienced in childhood, but then it kind of shape you sometimes. Or for some people, it shapes everybody when it comes to trauma. But you trying to fix it or compensate or try and improve on it, I think you can develop better character maybe. I want to believe so. I certainly felt so about myself. I think that there's this, so the second really popular thing that I'm working on with people a lot these days is the victim mindset.

As long as that victim competition mindset is huge. I met people that are like, wait, what happened to you? No, I have something that's, yeah, my mind's worse. That's nothing. That's nothing. That's nothing. And then they come back with, no, I also had this happen and that's worse. And you're just like, okay, whatever you're doing there. So if we live in a victim mindset, we are essentially giving up our free will. We're taking all of our power and just throwing it out on the person who we're blaming.

So one of my other favorite quotes is the one attributed to Buddha, that holding on to resentment and anger is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die. Pete Slauson There's a lot of people that do that too. Oh my God. They hold onto it for a long, long time. So the other thing is, right, that, and again, all this moving to action is, if you could find a way to own what you do,

like a friend said to me, the other people we're talking about, he said, his dad used to tell him, you can never choose the hand that you're dealt, man, but you can always choose how you want to play it. Or you can just bite the hand that feeds you. That's what I do. Or that, and your many wives and girlfriends. But if we give up our free will, our choice about But if we give up our free will, our choice about how we respond and react, then we're powerless. And life, I actually will take one step further about life shaping us. I do believe in God, my own version of God, and I believe that low self-esteem is the greatest gift that God gave us. Pete Oh, really?

Pete Yep. Pete Because it helps us be better or work at something? Pete Because why would you ever want to improve if you thought you were awesome? Pete That's true. I know some narcissists that have that problem. Some people think I do, but I just have narcissism. I still think I need to improve, but I need to improve on my narcissism to be a better narcissist. You're still improving on something, right?

Yeah, yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it, yeah. So, but if we view it as, you know, another way, another, you know, spiritual teacher said life is either happening to you or for you, whichever way you believe you're right. Pete Slauson Ah, whichever way you believe you're right. A lot of people do that too. Maybe some people go to the easy answer or the easy assumption because it's easier than doing the work. I don't know.

Pete Slauson I don't, you know, it's interesting because if life is sucky, why does it feel better to blame everybody else that life is sucky than I can do something about it? But yes, that means you have to do something about it. So if you want to be lazy and blaming, I guess, but, and, you know, not to say everyone's got their life story and their life circumstances and every, you know, it to say everyone's got their life story and their life circumstances and every, you know, it's all unique and I've got nothing to say about it. And I do believe that if you want your life to better, then you've got to make the decision

to own your agency as, you know, to the level that you can. Yeah. I mean, you can't improve. Some people, I mean, they just like the attention and vindication that comes from it. And I think that's what you said earlier too. You said they want other people to do the work for them. Then they just love the attention.

You know, you've always seen the, I remember I went to a Tony, a Tori Amos concert in the 90s, 2000s. I'm old people, give me a break. I was like two at the time. And she talked about how she'd gotten this victimhood mindset. And you know, woe is me, you know, and here she is a multimillion dollar artist, musical artist, you know, playing on stages. Somehow she's a victim. It's kind of funny to think that, wait, you're making millions and whatever.

Anyway, I want to have that problem. I want to be a billionaire. Like, I feel unloved. Give me that problem, please. Thank you. But she made a comment that one of her friends finally got so sick of her complaining and victimizing. She came up to me and she goes, you know, we're really tired of hearing you complain about everything. You actually have a great life, get off the cross, we need the wood." Basically, and she explained, this is in the concert, she basically explained that, you know, she crawled up on, crucified herself on her own cross and they're like, yeah, you can get down, we know that you're just up there for show. And you know, some people like that. They like the attention of the victimization. And yeah, until you say, you know, I've reached a point sometimes in my life, I remember when

I lost weight and quit drinking so much Mountain Dew, same thing when I gave a power call. I just reached a point where I was so sick of it and sick of myself. And, you know, a lot of people said, you know, you should quit that Mountain Dew drinking that's got a lot of sugar in it. And I just reached a point, and sometimes I guess maybe we have to reach that point where we go, I'm sick of this and, you know, set network movie that moment where it goes, I'm sick of this, I'm not taking any more, you know, I'm done with this, Yada, yada, yada. Pete Slauson Yeah. I do think that every person, because change is not easy, and moving out of the space that we got ourselves into, however we got into it, whether or not that's how we were taught, that's how we interpreted, that's whatever, it takes leverage.

And we do need to find that internal leverage because there's no amount of external leverage I've seen that will really bring about internal change. And so, you know, I do work with people a lot to help them find what is their internal leverage spaces so that they can work through it. If you want to start going to the gym or like what you said, getting off a mountain do I mean, you can say that, but then you got to do the work to, you know, resist the urge and the addiction to sugar and all of that. Not simple stuff. And so there's a lot of compassion, self-compassion involved and

work. It's not, I don't know free rides on this matter. No free rides people. Nobody rides for free. That's my policy. As we go out, give people a final pitch where they can onboard with you.coms, how they can reach out to you, get to know you better, et cetera, et cetera. So please reach out to me on LinkedIn. You'll see that even on my page, you can book some time and I'm always open to having those conversations. Ultimately, if you're feeling that you're

not at choice in what's happening, or you feel that as a leader, you're great, but you're not able to get other people to come along with you, that things aren't happening in the way that you wish or wanted them to, let's have a conversation. All you can find maybe, maybe I can support and help you be the person you wanna be. Well, thank you very much for coming to the show. We'll have a link on the show to your LinkedIn. Thank you very much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Thank you, Chris.

I hope you have a great day and I hope your listeners have a great day as well. Thank you. And thanks so much for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, FortressCrisposs, LinkedIn.com, FortressCrisposs, Chrisposs1 on the TikTok, any of those crazy places. Be good to each other.com for chest Chris Foss linkedin.com for chest Chris Foss Chris Foss one of the tik-tok any all this crazy place There be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time on the big show