The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Mastering Email and SMS for Business Growth and Customer Retention Jason Donapel

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Mastering Email and SMS for Business Growth and Customer Retention Jason Donapel Jasondonapel.com Theemailexperience.com About the Guest(s): Jason Donapel is a multifaceted entrepreneur, digital marketing expert, and founder of XD Agency. With a robust background in business growth, customer retention, and innovative online marketing strategies, Jason has generated over $110 million in revenue for e-commerce and digital businesses. He specializes in email and SMS personalization, focusing on building audiences and optimizing customer journeys to increase engagement and conversion rates. With experience transitioning from a corporate environment to successful entrepreneurship, Jason provides valuable insights into personal growth and the ever-evolving digital landscape. Episode Summary: In this episode of "The Chris Voss Show," host Chris Voss talks with Jason Donapel, an expert in digital marketing and audience retention. The conversation delves into the importance of email and SMS marketing as more stable alternatives to traditional media buying, which can be vulnerable to algorithm changes and platform policies. Jason shares his journey from a warehouse job to co-founding a successful marketing agency, illustrating how strategic audience growth and customer retention can drive massive revenue gains. Exploring the changing landscape of digital marketing, this episode is a valuable resource for any business owner looking to optimize their customer engagement strategies. Jason and Chris discuss the nuances of list building, emphasizing the intrinsic value of owning your customer data as opposed to relying heavily on social media platforms. By focusing on email and SMS marketing, businesses can maintain a direct line of communication with their audience, safeguarding against the constant algorithm shifts that affect other marketing channels. Jason highlights innovative approaches to segmenting audiences based on their interactions and preferences, ensuring tailored and impactful communications. With detailed case studies and practical advice, this episode offers actionable insights on enhancing your digital marketing efforts for sustained growth. Key Takeaways: Channel Diversification: Embracing email and SMS marketing provides a more stable and direct line to customers compared to traditional media buying on platforms like Facebook and Google. Audience Segmentation: Personalizing messaging by understanding audience preferences and behaviors leads to higher engagement and conversion rates. Entrepreneurial Journey: Jason's story from a warehouse worker to a digital marketing expert illustrates the potential for significant career growth through entrepreneurship. Effective Retention Strategies: Building customer loyalty through personalized and consistent communication is essential for maximizing lifetime value and revenue. Marketing Resilience: Owning your lists and data prepares businesses for the inevitable changes in platform algorithms and market shifts. Notable Quotes: "Email felt fine to me. It felt like you told me you wanted to hear from me, and now I'm able to get in touch with you." "What you're seeing is that all you have is marketers forgetting that you have to serve the user that's in front of you first." "As a marketer myself, I just abandoned carts on purpose because I just want to see if you've got a discount waiting for me." "You should get pissed off when you get shitty messages sent to your phone… it's insulting." "More messages from your brand mean increased scope of influence; we have to get your voice out there."

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster

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Now somebody else does it because, you know, it's just too much work on my half. So anyway guys, welcome to the Big Show. We certainly appreciate you guys. As always, go to GoodReese.com, FortressCrisposs, LinkedIn.com, FortressCrisposs, Crisphos1 on the TikTok, and then CrisphosFacebook.com. And there's probably other places we are on there. Check out the Crisphos OnlyFans. No, don't do that, there is no such thing.

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CEOs, the billionaires, the White House presidential advisors, the people who come on with their stories, their journeys, their life, their cathartic moments, their lessons, and they teach them to you for free, damn it. Geez, what do you want from us already? So be sure to make sure to listen every moment of the show. In fact, do it on slow play. You know how you can do that on a double? Do it on slow play. Just crank it down to.1,

and then make sure you just absorb every word like a sponge. And then you're gonna walk around, you're gonna have that Chris Voss show glow, and everyone's gonna go, why are you so smart? You're like, what's the Chris Foss show? You should too. Anyway, he is the author of the latest book that came out June 5th. That just tied all together, didn't it? He's the author of the latest book that I just had to recognize that moment. I just made that up and it just flew right through there. I'll fuck up the rest of the show,

I guess. Nate Green joins us on the show. His book is out June 5th, 2024. And his book is entitled, a pretty cool title. I like this title, Suck Less, Do Better, The End of Excuses and the Rise of the Unstoppable You. And we're going to get into how you can suck less and do better. And, you know, maybe your wife tells you that a lot or something and you know, you need to get your button gear. He's going to help you do it. He's an award winning CEO, keynote speaker, entrepreneur, coach and bestselling author. He's an award winning CEO and renowned for his relentless spirit and dedication to developing

leaders and teams. His success is reflected and it's consistent recognition on the Inc. 5000 list from 2021 to 2024 and the successful eight-figure exit of one of his companies. He's very passionate about personal growth and making a positive impact. He's created a proven roadmap for success based on the foundational elements that fueled his achievements. Overcoming his significant hardships, including a career-ending health issue at 23, he exemplifies resilience and determination. Welcome to the show.

How are you, sir? Chris, thank you so much. I appreciate it, man. Doing great over here. Oh, Nate, give us your.coms or wherever you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs. It would be successwith nategreen.com. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? Suck less, do better or else? No,

I didn't have to worry. Yeah, or else, or else you're done. You know, the book Suck Less, Do Better, it's basically an unwrapping of my journey and giving a process to anybody that is stuck in these different moments, stuck in the suck and really maybe having hardships. And they're just really trying to figure out that roadmap of working through it. My entire goal was to have an impact by helping people really stay away from some of those storms that I went through, getting my face kicked in a few too many times to achieve success, but really trying to help people walk through and navigate those journeys a

little bit early on. You know how to keep getting your face kicked in, stay away from feet. No, I'm just kidding. Or two by fours, right? Two by fours, you know, whatever, whatever you got coming your way. Uh, so, so tell us a little bit about your journey through life. It sounds like you kind of went through some things and learned some things that grew and learned resilience, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, Chris, man, it's been a little bit of a fun and challenging adventure already now I was, I was a cop when I was 19, you know, they had, yeah, they had to make excuses and an exception for me at 18 to join the police academy and nothing worse than my lieutenant have to buy me bullets, uh, because I couldn't even buy my, um, kind of don't they provide you with bullets? They did, except for when you're going to practice, you have to have bullets. And so I had my lieutenant go buy me, you know, a thousand rounds at a time. So I could actually go practice.

Just go hold up. You just go hold up an armory store or something. Exactly. Like do a good old barter system. Police officer. Yeah. They frown upon that kind of stuff. Give me the description.

He was in all blue. He was in all blue. He had a badge. He had a badge. Yeah, exactly. Police. But yeah, you know, the journey as a cop, it came to an end way earlier than expected. I actually had heart failure at 23 years old after I recovered from being paralyzed for

a few months. So it was kind of a back-to-back, a two-by-four experience, just not one of those times that I would like to go back to. Pete Slauson Now, was there something that triggered it? Was it a health anomaly? Was it something from your work, being a police officer? Jared Slauson Yeah, I was in a car accident. That's what created the paralysis. And I had a bunch of spinal damage, which in the end is what caused the brain and the heart not to work together really well. Pete Slauson Wow. Mine's been separated for years, but you know, I don't have a soul,

so that's part of the problem. Jared Larson That's just what the women say, right? Pete Slauson That's what my ex-girlfriends always tell me. They're the first 10 ex-wives. Why did you want to be a police officer? I'm just kind of curious on why people make their choices. Jared Slauson Man, you know, I love the adrenaline. Man, that was one of my things. I've always been an adrenaline junkie. And then that coupled with, you know, some of those things that you hear from childhood, you know, my dad always impressed upon me, go find a job with a pension or retirement.

Pete Slauson Oh, really? Jared Slauson Yeah. I was like, man, you got the ability to kick people and take them to jail, and then you get to get a pension and a profit sharing from that process. You know why not? Wait, I can kick them too? I'm setting up now. I mean, you know, it's fisticuffs, only when they need it.

Yeah. I've watched a lot of cop shows. I always love watching cops when they break into the mobile home and the guy's there and his wife beater, and you know, he's the one going to jail, right? It's, it's always the wife beater guy or the guy without the shirt or he takes his wife beater off and puts up his fist and you're like, Oh, this is my favorite part right here. They're going to tase him. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. You know, like the tasers, the pepper spray, it's make them cry. Let's go.

Yeah. I love those. You know, I, I, I've told this a million times on the show. So people are going to be like, Oh God, he's going to tell a story. But I used to, whenever I used to get depressed in business and stuff, I would go watch cops for two hours. And then when it got done, I'd be like, my life is great. Cause I'm not those guys. It's those people on the show. Yeah. I'm not getting chased down. I don't have this nagging song that keeps on playing. Not getting tased. Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm not getting pulled over for too much meth, you know? That's why I always do meth at home. Always do meth at home, folks. Don't do meth. That's just a joke, people. Please don't write me.

It's entertaining. It's going to be after me tomorrow. Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do something legal. I don't know. Drink cava. We had somebody on. I drank some cava for the first time the other day. It was kind of cool. Anyway, so you, what did you do after that? How did you overcome the difficulties of not getting the health to work? You know, in that process, when I was a cop, I always felt like I was built for more. And

so I spent a year when I was a cop exploring more about myself, like truly trying to uncover like what I could really become. And that was a very important part, which I didn't realize it was preparing me for this transition that was going to happen. And so naturally I had started going to school for business, which everybody thought was a little crazy. And especially with a specialty in accounting, they're like, you're a cop shooting at people, doing all the kind of stuff.

And then you're going to school for accounting. You got to count the people you hit with the bullet. Exactly. I got to be able to count at least 16. Okay. One, two, three, four, five. They did that in Vietnam. You had to bring back a head or something. So you got to be able to count it. It was a journey. So knowing really, I was built to chase after more of the entrepreneurial journey. Then after I had to retire, I went and got a sales job because that was the one thing I didn't know how to do was sell. And so I was

like, let's chase this down. And so I did that for about a year while I was putting all the nuts and bolts together. And then I launched my first business in 2008. Oh, congratulations. So what was that like, starting your first company and, you know, you're going, you're going from kind of a different mindset where there your first company and, you know, you're going from kind of a different mindset where there's no guaranteed pay, you know, the police officer, you've got a, you know, pension,

you've got a retirement, you got guaranteed pay. What was it like making that shift? Nate Persily Oh, man, that was lots of panic attacks, a lot of stress, especially when I told my dad I was starting my first business, he's like, Nate, I think you should get another job with a pension or retirement. And I'm like, no, dad, I know better. And you know how that goes. That goes great. But his mindset in the frame that he was raised, he was like, a pension or retirement was vital. And I was like, man, I want to go take risks. I want to build something that can turn into something. I want to build wealth and I

want to build legacies here. And you know, probably about a hundred times in the first year did I regret it. Looking back, I was like, man, I should have listened to my dad. But, but you know, after panic attacks, stress outs and everything else, that business, man, I tell you one, it almost bankrupted me in that first year. But in the end, that is what I grew to then exit last year for eight figures. That first business became that, that same business that gave me the freedom

that I have now, which is incredible. Wow. And now you get to tell your dad, I told you, no, no, no, I say thank you for your wisdom because when I did start making money, then I focused on savings and retirement because of his wisdom. And you know, but yes, it's also important for each one of us to chase our journey with our lens, what we're focused on rather than somebody else's and their preconceived ideas.

Pete Slauson So, what do you write up to the success of that business? Your tenacity, sticking through the hard time, not giving up? What do you credit your surviving you know, you're surviving? You said, you know, about a hundred different things that got thrown at you like that. Jared Suellentrop It comes down to focused action and a ridiculous amount of resilience. And that's really where most of the time people, they live by shiny object syndrome, where everything that pops up they chase after versus really diving into

who they are, what they are built to chase after, and then becoming resilient and relentless chasing that down. Pete Slauson That explains my dating life, chasing after shiny objects. Jared Larson Yeah, those belly rings always get you, don't they? Pete Slauson They do. It's the hoop earrings, the big S ones. The ones that are like, you know, they're about like a foot of opening of

circle. Those are the ones that really get me. I'm like, look, it's like a Christmas tree. It's a thing singing off of it. Anyway. So then where do you go from there? Jared Saino You know, I mean, with building that first business, then I scaled a few other businesses alongside of it. And out of those, I've also exited one, another one of those, and then the other one I'm exiting this year, which are all in the financial industries, which has been great, man. It's been a great run, but right now my passion is more for helping the younger Nate. And so there's so many younger Nates in this world that are following the path that maybe

their parents told them to follow. Maybe they're struggling on their entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, go get a pension or hey, listen, go be a teacher, go be a doctor, go to this school, go do that. I call it crack lenses. We're told what to be and how to show up. And that's really a part of inside the book, Suck Less Do Better, there's an entire chapter that is named crack lenses. And it's all about the way that we see ourselves through other people's claims statements and the things we were told and how we're supposed to show up versus showing up and finding the freedom and who we really are. I like that. Cracked lens where we don't quite see how we should.

Why did you entitle the book Suck Less Do Better? I mean, what was the proponent behind that? So that's a saying I've been telling myself for about 15 years now and you entitle the book Suck Less, Do Better? I mean, what was the proponent behind that? Chris Boundsell So that's a saying I've been telling myself for about 15 years now. And where that saying comes from is more a matter of putting blinders on to the people around you and what they're doing. Give you an example, Chris, you are an incredible podcast host. You're amazing as you, but I can't compete with you because I'm not you. Pete Slauson Yeah.

Jared Slauson So, I need to compare myself to me, focus on who I am, and then chase down the greatest version of me, and then suck less, do better every single day to show up as the better version of me, not you. Pete Slauson Yeah. Plus, I suck pretty bad, so, you know, you don't want to do that. So, suck less, do better. That should be the longer thing on all the show. We'll just say that. Suck less, do better. do that. So, suck less, do better. That should be the long thing on all the show. We'll just say that. Suck less, do better.

Jared Suellentrop Suck less, do better. Pete Slauson But then you probably see me for copyright infringement, so we can't have that. So now, what do you do on your website? What do you do with some of the context of your book and how you help people? Jared Suellentrop So, for me, right now, it's chasing down, really helping those younger versions of me really figure out who they are, what they're built for.

How do they really channel all this energy? How do they really go after what they're built for with fuel, this hunger inside of them? And between coaching, we have the built unstoppable mastermind, we have other group coaching programs, and so many things that we really help people dial themselves in and really chase after that next layer of their journey with much better success. And so you provide on your website, let me pull this up here, you provide different counseling for leadership, entrepreneur, business leaders to help them uncover their core and ignite their passion and illuminate their path to purpose.

Tell us about the core here. What is their core? Yeah, just to make sure that I clarify, we don't provide counseling services. Sometimes it feels like counseling, but it's more coaching and consulting. So I live with the principle, I call it the success outcome equation. And there's three core elements behind it. And the first one is the core. And if you don't know who you are and the core of what makes you great, your skill sets, your capabilities, and all those pieces having to do with the core of you, if you got that piece wrong, you will

never find your success. Then the second piece is the fuel. That's that driving force inside of you. What are you passionate and why are you passionate about that stuff? Is it your family? Is it you want to make a legacy and why are you passionate about that stuff? Is it your family? Is it you want to make a legacy? You want to be remembered for something? Do you want to overcome an obstacle that your entire family or you've dealt with? What is the fueling you, driving you for your kids?

And then you have your lighthouse. That is the fuel and the core in action. What is the greatest version of you that could ever be and what could you achieve? Once you have those three pieces, then your multiplier is your focused action. What is the greatest version of you that could ever be and what could you achieve? Once you have those three pieces, then your multiplier is your focused action. That's the outcome equation. Pete And finding your purpose, I mean, we've talked about that a lot on the show over the years about, you know, having a purpose and, you know, for a long time, I was just kind of

making businesses, making money and was just like, I don't know, really excited about any of this. I was just kind of making businesses, making money and was just like, I don't know, really excited about any of this. But you know, making money, whatever. But you know, finding your purpose, that makes a whole difference in life when you have a purpose. Jared Sienaar 100%. I mean, if you don't have your purpose, then you don't have hope. And if you lose hope, then you start to fall apart. And then you start going other directions, whether that's, you know, suicide, drugs, addiction, all these other things, you try to fill that gap. And so that's really where we try to help people connect with their purpose by understanding their core, their fuel and their lighthouse.

Once you have that locked in, that is your purpose. That explains the drinking I used to do back in the 90s or 2000s, wherever that was, up to the 90s or 2000s, wherever that was, up until the 2020s. I explained the vodka. You help people understand what's important to this, how to step into their greatness. You talk about your life, the journey you have, and now you help a lot of other people. What do you find most people that are coming to you for coaching, what do you find that they're seeking or issues they know, issues they're having

in today's world? Matt So many times people are trying to perform at a higher level and whether they're, it doesn't matter what stage that they're in, but most of the time they're fighting against something they can't see. And that's really where a lot of what we do is help them really uncover these aspects of holdbacks, whether it's their cracked lenses, the distractions, the noises, the competitive natures, whatever they have. We fix that. We help them walk through and really uncover what's holding them back so they can start breaking free from it. And you find a high producer now becomes a ridiculously incredible producer because you allow them to break free of all these things that have helped them back in their journey

Wow, and it's is sometimes it's just like scotomas It's a blind spots or is it is it you know? Maybe they just haven't found their purpose and they don't they don't have that driving under Or maybe driving over sort of arching. I can't find the word, strive to, you know, what the purpose is. I just came all the way back around, didn't I? Jared Slauson Yeah, yeah. But most of the time, to be honest with you, it comes from what's called cognitive biases, and that is the cracked lenses. So, cognitive biases creates automaticities, which automaticities are automatic responses, and a lot of those all stem from our childhood,

the way that we handle different situations. Why do we constantly feel like we're able to elevate only to a certain point and then we go back down? Why do we only achieve certain successes? Why do we refrain from going after certain potential failures or potential growth? And that's really where when you find these people and you really help them reframe some of the stuff that they saw, heard, experienced and dealt with from childhood or from past relationships like all those girlfriends you were talking about, you know, these different

situations can really create different narratives in our head and reframe the way we see ourselves by cracking our lenses. Once you start working on correcting those pieces, the next thing you know you can break free and start reframing and then being able to take after and go after a better future. And that's what everyone wants, a better future, because not having a better future kind of sucks. Yeah, 100%. What are some other aspects and offerings you guys offer on your website and the work you do for people? I see you do some speaking and other things along those lines. Yeah, keynote speaking is one of my favorite things to do because there's no greater impact than to be able to get

in front of a group of people and help move the needle in many people's lives in one moment. Now, I live by the philosophy of if you inspire an idiot, now you just have inspired idiots. So with that, we basically go from keynotes and then we allow, we have programs, we have courses all the way through up to the mastermind, group coaching, one-on-one coaching that helps people work through their exact issues.

Because some people, they might not think that they're dealing with cracked lenses. They might have an issue with identifying their skill sets. Great. We want to help you identify your greatest skill sets. And then what can that become? And then it's like, hey, listen, I'm, I'm having trouble tapping into that relentless drive. Okay. Let's help you tap into that. And so each piece can be broken down depending on where people are struggling. And then,

you know, one of the things, one of the keynotes is ignite your, your relentless fuel. And that's where like, we want people to connect to this fire that will help it where instead of just being able to produce and hit certain goals, we want them to get ridiculous. We want them to get outside their box and really chase down greatness. Pete So, don't just have mediocre goals that don't really fire you up. Have some goals that light your fire and get you going on. Why am I doing Jimmy Hendrix sort of stuff? I don't know. I mean, it's better than my saying. I normally tell people that.

Is it the doors? Yes. The doors. It was the doors light my fire. Yeah. I mean, I normally relate it to, hey, listen, if it doesn't make you put on Depends, it's not a big enough goal. You say that like it's a bad thing.

I wear Depends. I'm wearing Depends right now. I do it for practice for when I get old. Wait, I'm already old. It's efficiency. I mean, you can go to call to call to call and never have to leave the desk. You have to really work at pooping your pants right. If you do it wrong, then it's a mess. Anyway, those things you can look forward to when you get older.

One of the programs you have is called Built Unstoppable. What does that mean? Man, Built Unstoppable, that is my favorite project that we're working on and that we've developed. We've already gone through some of our pilots and now we're in the official offering of it. And when you talk about massive impact and massive growth, it's a 12 week program that is highly intensive. When people go in and go through that, they're going to

raise massive awareness. You know that equation I was talking about, the core, the fuel, the lighthouse? That's what we dive into in the first half of the program. The second half is making sure that they have massive steps of action and exact focus on this next phase of their life. Pete Slauson Hmm. Focus on what you're doing and how you're living your life, etc., etc. And is that part of your focus, your greatest asset, or is that a separate program? Jared That's a separate program. That is very intensive on just that core piece. You know, you're talking about that core, people really understanding who they are. That focus, your

greatest asset is people really understanding that they are their greatest asset, and then how do they really understand who they are and really chase after that future of them. Yeah. Understanding kind of your purpose, your motivation, making yourself the center of your universe and what's the word I'm looking for. But having that as your driving factor makes all the difference in the world because then you can build everything around it. It's kind of like your mission as it were, maybe. Yeah. And I talk about it as like also your edge. You know, the edge is what makes you greatest and what actions show up for you as the greatest. And how do you make sure that every single time that you are showing up, it is the parts that move the needle the furthest. And so,

once you really lock into that, man, you talk about some serious momentum. Pete Yeah. Yeah, you get your, all your ducks in a row and all that good stuff. What haven't we talked about that people should know about you, what you do, anything in the book, etc., etc.? Jared You know, the biggest thing that when I'm talking with people, it's all about the future. It's all about the next steps. You know, when you're talking about purpose and I talk about hope, you know, I've lost a few friends in the past from suicide and that has left a lot of scar tissue, but also a lot of passion. And so that's really where, you know, my driving force, my fuel is to

really help people find hope through identifying their purpose. And my encouragement to everybody is, man, if you have not locked into that purpose of why you're here, what you're built for, and what you really should be chasing after, we got to help you lock in. And yes, the first step, read the book, Suck Less, Do Better, it really going to help you,

but then reach out to our team. And we got a lot of great resources, Don't want to leave you high and dry. Want to be here as a part of your success journey. Pete Slauson Yeah. So, as we go out, give people a final pitch out to pick up your book, how to reach out to you for a consultation, see if they're a fit for you. Do they need to have a minimum net worth, anything like that, certain types of people you don't work with, etc., etc. Pete Slauson Oh, I appreciate that, certain types of people you don't work with, et cetera, et cetera.

Oh, I appreciate that. So at Success with Nate Green, that's where you're going to find a lot of information about our programs. And so it doesn't matter whether you're just starting out on this developmental journey, trying to figure it out all the way through to you're a high achiever, high producer, and you're really serious about it. We have programs at every level, which makes it really nice because with an impact focus like we have, we need to have something for everybody. That way, if they hear us on podcast, if they hear me at a keynote, we don't just inspire people and have a bunch of inspired idiots. We want to make sure that we have progressive steps for them. And that's really where the book is a great start. Our programs are a great start, but listen, you can't stay in complacency. You have to do

something and you have to take action steps today. So give us your dot com as we go out. Success with NateGreen.com. Thank you very much, Nate, for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Really appreciate you. Thank you. And thanks to our audience for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com for Chess Chris Voss and all those crazy places on the internet, or the book really appreciate you.