The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Matthew Stafford, CEO & Managing Partner of Build Grow Scale on How To Maximize Ecommerce Sales & Success

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Matthew Stafford, CEO & Managing Partner of Build Grow Scale on How To Maximize Ecommerce Sales & Success Buildgrowscale.com Over the past three decades, Matthew Stafford has been entrepreneurial and successfully building several businesses across various industries, including Concrete, Brick and Mortar Locations, POD, and Software-based ventures. Matthew Stafford, the CEO and managing partner of Build Grow Scale and an equity owner of some in-house Ecommerce brands, has nowledge and expertise, enabling him to mentor thousands of store owners through paid Ecommerce groups and live events. His experience has also allowed him to help hundreds of ecommerce brands scale past the million-dollar mark - with many hitting the $10 million+ mark. To top it off, he's been speaking on stages about ecommerce optimization for the past seven years! In fact, before Covid-19, BGS hosted the largest yearly Ecommerce-focused event in orth America - BGS LIVE.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, this is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends we certainly appreciate you

i don't know why anybody applauds for me hitting that high note i don't know why i still have to do it after 15 bloody years but i love how you guys come up to me at shows and go the chris vosh show and i yell security so there you go uh i don't know why that sticks but uh we we did it for a week and then we started getting calls around the world that I'd stopped and they're like you have to keep doing it and I'm like why it was a bit for a week and now 15 years later here we are 1500 episodes folks 2-3

new shows a weekday 10-15 new shows a week and what do you want more from me holy crap listen to the shows you're going to learn so much we've had some of the greatest people on the show. And you know what? We only have the greatest people on the show. Except for me, of course, but

the guests are the greatest people on the show. And you learn so much from them. We have so many brilliant discussions. It's unfathomable. Somewhere over 1,500 episodes that we're heading towards now. I think 16 we're going to cross over soon. So keep watching the show. But as always, this is the point that we set up to guilt and I think 16, we're going to cross over soon. So keep watching the show.

But as always, this is the point that we set up to guilt and shame you to refer the show to your family, friends, relatives. Goodreads.com, Fortunes Christophus, YouTube.com, Fortunes Christophus, LinkedIn.com, Fortunes Christophus. The newsletter, YouTube.com, Fortunes Christophus, and then TikTok. We're killing on TikTok finally, or we're starting to. Making some traction over here with the new AI cut up we're using on tiktok finally or we're starting to make some traction over with the new ai cut up we're using uh we have an amazing gentleman on the show he's gonna be

talking to us about his business sense his business acumen his business knowledge his business experience and all those four different things i just said probably all mean the same thing but they sounded cool to say gotta love those buzzwords uh We have a gentleman, Matthew Stafford, is on the show with us today. Not the NFL guy. This guy is smarter than that. I don't know. That's probably rude to say about the NFL gentleman. I'm sure he's fairly smart, but he doesn't play for the Lions.

Oh, wow. I just lost all two Lions fans. Matthew Stafford is a CEO and managing partner of Bill Gross Gale. Why are we throwing shade at NFL players today? I don't know. We'll look into it. He's also an equity owner of some in-house e-commerce brands and has knowledge and expertise enabling to mentor thousands of store owners

through paid e-commerce groups and live events. Over three decades, Matthew has been an entrepreneurial and successfully building gentleman who has several businesses across various industries, including concrete, brick-and-mortar locations, pod, and software-based ventures. His experiences also allowed him to help hundreds of e-commerce brands scale past the million-dollar mark, 10 million plus mark to top it off he's been speaking on stages about e-commerce optimization for the past seven years and he's going on eight with the show and he's here on

the chris faugh show welcome to the show matthew how are you i'm great thanks for having me there you go i wasn't sure how close you were to eight, but I thought I'd help you round up. I don't know what that means. So give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interweb, sir? BuildGrowthScale.com is the easiest way. We basically have everything that we do there. And if they want to book a call, ask questions, get a hold of us, they can do that there too. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview of the website what you do and how you do it yeah so um it started off i had my own

brand and i was actually very good at facebook ads and it's about 10 years ago um and they were first coming out um and they worked really well and i just I had run sold about 15 million dollars for the T-shirts in two years using Facebook ads. And so I was known for that. And when we started a brand on Shopify, it started off great. And then we started having, you know, a bunch of trouble with it. And every time the Facebook would change their algorithm, our sales would go from hundreds per day down to less. And so it was just like this constant frustration. And finally, what I did was I had a guy charge me $1,000 to give me six weeks coaching on Google Analytics. And essentially what that was, it was tracking the data of what was happening on the store itself to see what people were doing. And as soon as I could see that, my brain started going, oh, I can make this better. And so now

it was no longer the ads that were responsible for all the sales but when they got to the website the clarity of the website in order for them to make a decision and one of the taglines that we have is traffic's not your problem because a typical website um if whether it's leads or sales to two percent which means for every hundred people that come there, two people give you money or put in their emails. And so everybody else thought, and I did at the time, just go buy more traffic, you'll get more sales. And instead, when I saw the data, I was like, that doesn't make any sense. 98 people, 98 other people came to the site, but they didn't buy. If I get two more of them, I doubled my business.

Oh, wow. And so that was kind of my journey to understanding the website and how the customer interacted with it. That's really created the entire business. There you go. Now, you're billed is the mad scientist behind the day and development of the BGS Revenue Optimization System. I believe that's the name of your company, BuildGrow,

as well as the revenue optimization team of over 40 full-time experts you have. And you're known as the top Shopify optimization expert in the game. Is that true? I would say probably top five. Yeah. Who knows? There you go. Awesome sauce. So we're going to learn a lot today. So give us your origin story, your journey. How did you get into this business? So I was actually in the concrete business and I built that up to the point where we were only doing commercial concrete. So we were traveling around the country. I was on the road about 200 days a year. And so I wasn't home a lot. And I went to a Tony Robbins event. And he was selling

a DVD series called Money Masters. And so I signed up for that. And the very first month I got a DVD, it was from Frank Kern. And it was about how to sell e-books to teach your parrot how to talk. And I thought, wow, that was, I mean, it gave some numbers. I thought, wow, that's crazy. He was making more money selling this little book about how to teach your parrot than I was out on the road for 200 days a year pouring concrete. And I thought, all right, I want to learn how to do this.

Up until then, I'd only used my computer to send emails or blueprints or things like that. And so I set a goal within five years to be a hundred percent online. And that's about, about a month to the fifth year about a month away from the fifth year that's going to happen there you go well congratulations uh and so now this parlayed into this you said at one point you were selling shirts online and then you and then you figured out how to help other people do it what are some of the services that you offer over on the site? I see some different

things like bootcamp and mentoring and partnerships. Tell us about courses, et cetera. Yeah. So we do an audit, which is where you can have us take a look at your store and we'll point out the things that we see that are creating confusion or hurting your conversions. That's a simple way to get to know us. If you want a little deeper dive, that boot camp is three days, about 90 minutes a day for three days. And we go through the different areas of the business and kind of just show you what you can look for, what our best practices, red flags, things that you can do to make more money so that your store can be more successful. And then at that point, we'll make you an offer. There's no pressure because there's no scarcity to it. We're going to keep doing this for a long time. And so if you want to, you can join our

membership. And if not, you can just take what you learned and do it yourself and you'll still make more money. There you go. There you go uh so a lot to offer there and helping people so is it uh any sort of e-commerce site is it specifically to shopify and uh or or just any e-commerce that's selling something online yeah to be it can really the principles we don't teach like tricks and hacks of the platform. So it's really the principles of how people interact with the site. So yeah, it doesn't really matter the platform. I'd say we're platform agnostic. But Shopify has done such a good job of like capturing the market.

They're probably going to be eight out of 10 Shopify or e-commerce sites. And then they'll have a few WooCommerce, stuff like that, a little bit of BigCommerce. Other than that, but yeah, no, the principles work across all of them. There you go. So tease us out, if you would, some effective strategies for improving e-commerce conversion rates, if you would. Yeah.

So I'll give you one right away that will make more money and it's it's literally never not one so um if you go to your checkout and people look there and it will say email and then all the other information and then on the bottom it says phone well um the checkout is closest to the money so So that's where we always work first. And if you make a difference there, it instantly translates into more sales, more money. And so we're always trying to optimize that to make it better. Well, I use the theory that people don't mind giving you what you ask for as long as you give them a reason why. And they've done all kinds of studies like that. Like, oh to cut in line and people are like no but you go oh i need to cut in line because

my kids are running late for school then i'll say they'll let you and they've tested that a bunch of different ways and so um we know that uh because we track the form field errors a lot of times people give you a junk email uh and so what we did is a lot really well. Yeah. And the truth of the matter is your order confirmation email gets opened 85% of the time. And so what we say is email required for your order confirmation. So we put that text in the form field and what they'll do, because they know that

they want to go see the email confirmation, that they'll give you their best email. And so by doing that, we had less errors on the checkout. We actually had better card abandonment recovery because we were getting their best email and it just converted higher. So the second part is you go down to the phone and we always tell everybody, the only reason why you don't require the phone and do SMS marketing is if you don't like money. So it's literally taken over as far as like the largest revenue generator,

as far as abandoned carts or abandoned checkouts. And so for there, we put phone required for shipping notifications. So one is for the order, and then the SMS is for shipping notification. Everybody wants to know when it's going to be shipped too. And so by doing that, we reduced the form field errors, increased the conversion, and also had much better abandoned recovery. Wow.

And then you're not going to get like fake phone numbers either. No. Because people want to think, that's brilliant. Just those little, it seems like you guys are really good at finding those, just those little dial-ins, you know. Yeah. The one thing I remember, you know, with all of our companies is, you know, you can be struggling to find some sort of innovation or some way to make something work.

And it's almost like that little safe where if you can just turn that dial and sometimes it's just really just the right combo or sometimes it's a little adjustment and you're like, Bing, it's open. Yeah. Yeah. There you go.

Same as your website. A lot of people think like, Oh, you got to check that. You got to test the button color. You got to test all these different things. What we found because we have tested all of that stuff. Colors don't matter near as much as the concept of like the button needs to be a totally different site than anything else on the site. And the reason for that is, you always want your next most valuable action that you want them to take on the page to stand out. And so they'll literally go through your site if you've optimized it from the front to the back. And it just felt good to buy because like everything was laid out, it was very clear.

And so by doing that, like make sure that your buttons stand out and nothing else is that color. A lot of times we see people, if their theme is blue and pink, then they'll put pink buttons or they'll put blue buttons, but then that matches a whole bunch of other stuff. Here on the Chris Voss Show, there's a buy button right there in the blue, but it's labeled blue, so you can't see it. No, I'm just kidding. There's a buy button right over here.

Anyway, yeah, I can see why that makes sense. I have been on websites where you're like, how the hell do I get out of here? And where do I need to use a different credit card? And how do I switch the credit card? I was having that problem really today on tiktok uh we bought a ad another ad campaign on tiktok that we ran but i wanted to put it on a different card and i for life of me i couldn't figure out how to put it on a different card like i went through like a billion memos menus and memos menus and uh how much have i had to drink today jesus and i don't drink that's the weird thing um and

i couldn't figure it out so finally i'm just like just leave it on whatever card it's on and that was the example i mean of tiktok yeah so again um what i tell people they always go oh what what can i do to my site i'm like i't know. There's probably a lot of things you can do your site. The thing that is easiest for me to explain that will create a shift for you is you've always looked at your site as the owner and how do you make more sales? And if you come to your site, like go to your site on a new device, and then give yourself like some tasks to do and see if it's easy or hard. Don't just click on stuff that you know where to go. See if it's labeled, if it's, there's a bunch of clutter, all these different things, but go on the site as the customer looking to solve a problem and see how it works then. And a lot of times that little shift, you'll see a whole bunch of things on your site that you never noticed before because you have banner blindness to them.

Wow. You know, approaching your business with kind of fresh eyes and sitting down and going, if I was new and I didn't know, you you know i'd never been to my site before how does this look from the outside you know i sometimes with our with our phone systems and our and our companies in all the different places stuff would go when it would go through the operators um sometimes i would just randomly call in uh anonymously and and and go through my system. Like, hey, can I talk to a salesperson? And it was kind of interesting, some of the experiences I had. Like, sometimes a secretary would pick up the phone and she'd be talking and not answering the phone.

I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And then, you know, five minutes later, she'd go, hi, how are you doing? I'm sorry sorry i was talking to somebody what's up uh you know you're like you you just got the boss on the call man um and and seeing how the calls would flow through my system nowadays you know that was in brick and mortar days nowadays yeah you've got to look at your site from the outside and try and look at it with those fresh eyes or get people that can advise you and look at your site with fresh eyes. What do you find is sort of the top things people struggle with their e-commerce site? What do you find most people come to you for help with?

Certainly to get their site to convert higher. But what we find is a lot of times uh people do their own customer service early on and so every single person that writes in a question they think that that now needs to be answered on the website and what they've done is they've literally put so much stuff on the website to answer all the questions and clear everything up that now the people that don't need to know all that are forced to go through everything in order to check out. And so they've actually made the process worse, not better. And yeah, so typically, we'll use the customer service and look at the trends of what people are asking, and then find a way to answer that question on the proper page.

That's the other thing. A lot of times they're like, oh, they had this question, so that goes on the homepage, that goes on the product page. But yet their question might have had something to do with the cart, and they just think like, oh, in order for them to get the sale, it needs to be answered. Well, it's not even when those people are thinking that. And I always tell people that

there's typically two reasons why people don't buy from your site. One, they don't trust you, or two, they have an unanswered question. And, you know, your website is your conversation with your client. And so if it's not a good communicator, you're not going to create a lot of relationships with your long-term clients yeah it's uh it's interesting how uh i've seen that like the the biggest pet peeve for me is if you send me to a site where i'm going to be dealing with uh you know hey um oh you want your question answer can you go to our forum that has like 5 000 posts and you can probably find the answer you're looking for there. Yeah.

Like, are you freaking out of your freaking mind? Yeah. Like, what the hell? Yeah, customer service for sure is a lost art. We deal with a lot of really good high quality brands. And I will tell you, the ones that are very successful and have been for a long time usually do customer service very, very well. The ones that try very successful and have been for a long time usually do customer service very very

well the ones that try to outsource it or you know hit two and then go here and then do that like the rest of their companies in chaos too and everybody looks at them as like oh they're the big one that's doing this it must work no they already own their media. So a lot of times that allows them to get away with stuff that you can't do as a smaller operator. The ones that make it are the ones that have great customer service. There you go. Customer service, right, is a lost art. I mean, it's so insane what people put you through. And it's almost like they just really don't want to talk to you or,

or have a conversation at all. My favorite ones are when you file a ticket or try to get some customer service, they go, we normally take three days to respond because things are busy now. And I'm like, could you, could you just basically communicate any bigger F you to the fact that,

you know, you, you don't have, we're really busy, but we can't afford to have more customer service take care of the, yeah. Meanwhile, they're, they're in, they're in a meeting, which is probably what they're doing going, Hey, why can't we get our sales up? Why aren't we making more sales? You got all the irony there. Yeah. Um, what are some of the other struggles that you see that you help your customers resolve?

Probably a non-typical answer is, if you think about it, when the CEO of a company gets coaching and the business increases, it didn't require all the rest of the team to get it, but typically the leader. Really? It didn't require all the rest of the team to get it, but typically the leader. And so what I've noticed is when you do some mindset work or coaching with the owner of the site, the site does better. And it's because they're now looking at their business different. They're treating their people different, which in turn treats the customers different. And so, yeah, I always say we notice a huge difference when the owner starts investing in himself, not just from the business standpoint, but who they are. And the business tends to do much better. So better leadership, better culture improvement. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Wow. I was expecting you were going to say you know if they if they understand their business better you know like metrics analyzing it strategies all that sort of stuff then they know more about how to game the system but

just by that's really interesting man that is very interesting yeah i mean obviously the the things that you mentioned are going to help, too. Those are just good business practices. But I have found, and I've witnessed it just because of how many we've been able to work with, that the ones that do that tend to excel way faster. They tend to take action quicker. They pivot quicker. You know, business is hard, and it's a game, and so you've got to go into it, you know, to win the war,

and that means that you've got to be able to take the lumps along with the other stuff, and a lot of times you've got to learn how to not take it personal. Oh, yeah, definitely. And, you know, I've written about leadership. We've talked about leadership extensively on the show. how to not take it personal. Oh, yeah, definitely. I've written about leadership. We've talked about leadership extensively on the show. That's really interesting to me that the difference of culture makes a difference in how your company works, probably the difference in how your customer service is.

If people aren't happy at their job and miserable, their customer service is usually horrible. You basically get a feel of their resentment at the job that comes through. I mean, I could probably name a few big companies that don't treat their employees very well, and 95% of the employees you come in contact with, you can tell. And, you know, you can't really blame the employee a little bit, but, you know, you can tell what's going on there. Every now and then you meet a gem of an employee who they don't care how bad the employer is. They're just

great at what they do. You should hire that person if you can find them. There's a few people where I've met them. I remember meeting a cashier at Walmart one time. My local Walmart has started doing this thing where they put in 5,000 of those self-serve things

and they purposely hide and turn off the aisle for full service or whatever you want to call it, getting a cashier. And so like literally you have to ask and say, hey, where the hell is a cashier? I don't work for you. I'm not stocking your shelves and I'm not bagging my own groceries. And one of the gentlemen came over, a young guy, and I was just pissed off because I'm very pissed off about it. And he was so gracious. Hey, he's like, hey, how's your day, man?

How are you doing? He was, like, friendly and stuff, and just a nice guy. And he, like, totally changed my mood. And I made some comment. I go, I don't like this thing where we got to do this self thing. It's being kind of forced on us. I mean, what next? I got to unload the trucks.

And he's like, hey, I don't like it either, man. But it's cool, man. I'm going to help you out here. And we're going to get through this here. And so that sort of person can make all the difference in your experience. But that's really interesting that it's not even so much about how the business is run from the mechanics of it, but just the leadership, the health of a healthy culture, as it were, can make all the difference. Let's talk about...

There's different sites that sell the same thing. Why does one thrive and the other one doesn't? And nine times out of ten, it is the leadership and how they go after getting the customer and take care of it. And a lot of times it's not even pricing. You know, the company that has a higher price of the same product, they're winning. Wow. That is just amazing.

That's brilliant. All right. So we learned something new today. That's great data. So metrics-wise, how important is, this seems like a dumb question, but it's better to hear it from a professional like you. How important is it this seems like a dumb question, but it's better to hear it from a professional like you. How important is it to understand metrics, to have metric measurements, to really be looking at the analytics of your site so you can help improve those conversions? Yeah, so I would say that they're critical.

It's garbage in, garbage out. So if you don't know the data um you're not making good decisions and a lot of times uh without really good data we make assumptions and you know so we have really good data and we do split testing and optimization all the time and even with that like more than half of our tests don't win. Really? So as a store owner, without the data, you can see why they can struggle for years. And then once they start using the data, why all of a sudden there's such a big difference.

It's because one, you're throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall, trying to figure out which part of it's working and then do more of that. Well, it takes you back to that old adage, like, yeah, I know that 50% of my advertising is working. I just don't know which 50%. The only way you're going to know that is by having good, clean data. And then you can stop doing the 50% that's not working and double down on the part that is. And, you know, you could get away with not using your data years ago. Now the landscape of e-commerce is competitive enough for websites that you have to be professional.

You have to do a good job. And if you don't, your competitors are just going to eat your lunch. There you go. Well, being professional definitely helps as well. Let me ask you this because I hate doing A-B testing, and I'm just saying, oh, you know, A-B-C-D testing. It's just like I always would just like have that fantasy of just like, can we just make copy and it works and we just go?

But how important is A-B testing and optimizing it and all that stuff? And do you have to keep constantly testing to try and find a better way? What's a good strategy for that maybe? Yeah, so we do. We actually have a course on our site. It's fairly inexpensive, but it's a really, really good course called User Testing Mastery. And I honestly believe it's probably the best program that we've ever produced. And it's also that strategy has been responsible for the largest wins that we've ever had across the sites that we do.

And essentially what it is, is you create a very specific task set for someone to do. And then they go to your site and do that while they're videoing their screen and narrating what they're doing. And so by doing that, you actually see where they struggle, what their impression is, if they understand how to navigate, all the different things that you gave them to do. And in that, we'll find a lot of very big wins go back fix that on the site and then we have obviously more money another thing that we do that anybody can do is on their thank you page put a little pop-up that asks a question what's one thing that almost made you not buy and what they'll do is they'll tell you what their struggle was or what they didn't

understand or what was hard for them to figure out. And then you go back and fix that on the site. And when you do that, you'll get a lot of wins that way too. There you go. There's one site that I have that I'm a favorite of their brand and they make great products that

are very healthy. So it's hard to dissuade me from their brand but they do have a weird thing on mobile where when i'm uh going to the site and buying things their pop-up pops up and takes up half the screen yeah and it's like hey can we help you i'm like no get the off of my screen and yeah let me look at your site, damn it. Yeah, we were actually looking at the data today on one of our partner stores, and the number one most clicked button was the close to pop up. There you go.

That's a pretty good indicator that people are in the middle of doing something and they closed that rather than leave. So that means that they had intent to do something and you like interrupted that buying process or what's worse is you can't figure out where that little x is that's so damn small for old people like me with bad eyes and bad brains and we're just like i'm just going to close the whole just give up yeah um and and sometimes i'll actually do that with the site i reference and be like i'll just go order when i'm on my computer um you know and

and then and then i get the uh card abandonment and text messages yeah and i don't mind i love them as a company but still i mean they're losing business from whoever is in a loyal customer like me a hundred percent yeah and then of course the sales have to wait in a loyal customer like me. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And then, of course, the sales have to wait a few more days. And they're probably sitting around having meetings going, why does it take so long for these carts to fulfill? Yeah, or you would have consumed more of their product if you could keep buying it whenever you're ready. That's actually true.

And in one case, I couldn't get their whole thing to work. And I needed, in this case, I lift weights, so I need a protein that was isolate. And I just went and bought another brand because I needed it right away. And by the time their site got whatever was going on with it, I was like, I just bought another brand. And when the cart rep, they have some sort of conversion where the cart rep, if you ask for help, uh, a guy will say, Hey, do you need help? And, uh, you can write it back. And I was like, dude, I just, you just lost a sale to me. And in some cases, uh, you know, I, I still have the brand, but in some cases that can be a whole, you know, brand loyalty that goes someplace else. Yeah, 100%.

And gets addicted to the other brand. They're lucky I haven't had that happen. It's interesting tracking the metrics, knowing what's going on in your website. I love the idea of watching someone else go through the website with fresh eyes. My mom's 80 years old, and and she's still you know adapting technology she does pretty good but uh is there any um is there any thought to maybe putting somebody who's not too tech savvy on your website watching how they process it to see how easy that works for them maybe i don't know yeah so that's exactly what we do um in that user

testing we use a service where you can put in your age demographic. Oh, really? Whether they have kids or whatever, and then only that type of person will go through it. And so we definitely have done it with an older audience. And we do notice the things that aren't labeled or symbols that they don't understand all of those things um when you put labels to them then what we say is make it so simple that homer simpson would know how to do it so not everybody understands that those three lines are a menu that sounds silly to us because we've been shopping online for years. But before COVID, only about 10% of sales were done online.

During COVID, it went up to 33%. And then now it's back down to like 27%. So, I mean, believe it or not, I mean, e-commerce hasn't been around that long. And so it's evolving and changing. And we're getting new people buying stuff online all the time and you know i i have a website that's favorite of mine i've been going to it for years and it has those three lines and i still like every now and then be like where the hell is the menu again yeah yeah so just label it menu cart yeah you make the lines a little bigger for

the old people eh yeah our eyes aren't as good we're like looking at the site and and you know when you look at the you know all the functions that are on the site like the menus the buttons and everything and then in the upper left hand corner there's just these little small three little script lines that you're just like what what is that is that an error on my screen or a smudge? And, and, you know, everything else is like, and huge. And, and then, you know, you get through the lines and you're like, how do I get to the menu? Um, yeah, I was having the worst time today with Tik TOK or last night with Tik TOK. I think it rolled in today where I could not figure out how to change my credit card for the

life of me. And, and I'm like, okay, well well finally i give up that you know thank god there's stuff on whatever the other credit card was but i wanted it i wanted on this other one so we could track it and um i just couldn't figure it out and uh i'm like what what would happen if there wasn't any money on that credit card and uh you know so you're gonna ping you're gonna prove the ad and then it won't go through and then you're gonna send me a message or you know, so you're going to ping, you're going to approve the ad, and then it won't go through, and then you're going to send me a message, or, you know, it's just insane what people go through. Do you, you know, maybe you should have a thing where you put people that are like 100 years old, and they try and figure out your website.

I don't know. That might be fun. Could that be reality TV? Yeah, I was just going to say we could do that as a podcast. Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say we could do that as a podcast. Yeah. Where's Sean? That's right. How come I'm not hearing the AOL screen?

I'm just kidding, people. You've got mail. You've got mail. It took me the longest time to convince my mom that you didn't need MSN or AOL to access the Internet. She's like, I don't understand. But she's got it now. She's got it down pretty good. What are some other aspects we haven't talked about? You've got a lot of stuff on your website.

The online courses for user tester mastery, product page optimization, competition buster. You've got a podcast as well. Do you want to give a plug for that? We have a bunch of episodes that we're done under. It's called Optimize eCommerce. We're starting a plug for that um yeah so we have a bunch of episodes that we're done under it's called optimize e-commerce uh we're starting a new one that i'm very excited about because there's three

of us as a host so it's kind of a um gets a more perspective than just my own and uh it's called building a brand and so we will start uh there will be a link to that within the next couple weeks as we start producing the shows. We got about 10 done and we just have to release them. There you go. And then you run the

Ecom Profit Bootcamp. Yeah, that's that three-day bootcamp. There you go. And is that just anytime time the customer is available or is there a thing? Yeah, so we do it every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So it's $33, which is really, really reasonable. The entire point of it is we want them to have a chance to get to know, like, and trust us and see what we're doing and the results. And then once they do that, they tend to become a customer a lot quicker. to get to know, like, and trust us and see that what we're doing and the results.

And then once they do that, they tend to become a customer a lot quicker. There you go. And it looks like you've got BGS Services where you do the work for people and you have your trained revenue optimization experts talk through and plan and do all that. And you have the mentorship where they can join other people. Is that a community where people can join that? Yeah, that's the community.

It's a monthly membership. And then Amplified Partners is where we partner with you. We do all the data analytics. We do all the split testing. We have our devs do the work on the site, etc. And that's the scale part of the build and grow scale. and then you guys uh get a cut of the action uh yes yep there you go there you go uh well this is very insightful man and uh wonderful to see what's going on and making a change there uh anything more we want to tease out before we go no i think it's good mean, come try us out or go through the challenge or have us do an audit.

I think that you'll find what we see is pretty eye-opening. There you go. There you go. And you can learn how more, how to sell more. Everyone wants to sell more, get more conversions

and be more successful. Well, Matthew, it's been wonderful to have you on the show. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah, buildgrowscale.com. There you go.

And thank you very much for coming on. Yeah, I appreciate you having me. There you go. Thanks to Anis for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrisfoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisfoss. It's all those crazy places on the internet like TikTok, chrisfoss1. Thanks for tuning in. be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time and that should have us up