The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Meredith DeSantos on Deprogramming Hustle Culture for Entrepreneurs

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Meredith DeSantos on Deprogramming Hustle Culture for Entrepreneurs Meredithdesantos.com About the Guest(s): Meredith DeSantos is a multi-faceted entrepreneur with nearly two decades of experience across the entertainment, tech, and wellness industries. She specializes in deprogramming hustle culture and limiting beliefs while promoting intuitive, successful strategies and life purposes using NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) and Human Design. Meredith has worked with A-list writers, showrunners, and creative brands to enhance their creativity and business development. She is the founder of the Business by Human Design Method and the Quantum Mindset Mastery Method, and hosts the private podcast, The Lazy Girl CEO. Episode Summary: In this exciting episode of The Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss and guest Meredith DeSantos delve into the intricacies of deprogramming hustle culture. Meredith discusses her unique approach to helping creative entrepreneurs unlock their potential without overworking themselves. Celebrating 16 years of podcasting, Chris offers listeners an insightful conversation on the importance of balancing productivity with personal well-being. Throughout the episode, Meredith provides an illuminating glance into her background and how her experiences led her to focus on helping others break free from the constraints of hustle culture. She discusses using Human Design and NLP to eliminate childhood programming and limiting beliefs, enabling individuals to achieve their goals more intuitively and sustainably. Meredith elaborates on her methods, her programs, and how they stand as a testament to building purposeful, restful, and productive lives. Key Takeaways: Imposter Syndrome and Perfectionism: Overcoming pervasive childhood beliefs that often impede success. Understanding Human Design: Using genetic and energetic blueprints to tailor intuitive success strategies. Deprogramming Hustle Culture: Shifting from constantly working hard to finding balance and rest for better productivity. Importance of Empathy and Presence: Building empathy and being present in personal and professional relationships enhances overall effectiveness. Support for Women in Business: Addressing the unique challenges women face in breaking the dreaded 100k revenue ceiling. Notable Quotes: "I help creative entrepreneurs deprogram from hustle culture and reprogram their subconscious to remove limiting beliefs." "You can reprogram yourself to no longer have those energy blocks and neural pathways that hold you back." "Lazy isn't about not doing work. It's about being restful and more productive." "As a projector who can't hustle, I had to learn to get a little lazy and own the word lazy as being restful." "A lot of people build their self-worth on their parents being proud of them, which leads to perfectionism and imposter syndrome." Resources: Meredith DeSantos Website: MeredithDeSantos.com Meredith DeSantos Instagram: MERE DeSantos Learn more about Human Design: Free HD Chart Listen to "The Lazy Girl CEO" podcast: Search on your favorite podcast platforms. Tune in to the full episode for more insights and stay updated with The Chris Voss Show's roster of expert guests.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

Ladies and gentlemen, Iron Lady sings, that makes it official. This is August of 2024. We just passed through. Oh, my God. Meredith DeSantos. She joins us on the show. She'll be talking about her insights, how she helps people deprogramming, hustle culture, and limiting beliefs to unlock intuitive, successful strategies and life purpose through NLP and human design. So we'll be talking to her about her experience and how she can help you live a better life or at least influence you to maybe that or else. Don't make her come out there. She has almost two decades across entertainment, tech, and wellness industries. Meredith brings a fresh point of view to business and personal growth by combining rapid business development with human design and subconscious hacks. She's worked with A-list writers, showrunners, and creative brands

to rapidly launch their projects while increasing their creativity, emotional intelligence. And she now brings these tools to highly creative entrepreneurs. Welcome to the show. How are you, Meredith? Thank you. I'm great. How are you doing? I am excellent.

You're the founder of the Business by Human Design Method and the Quantum Mindset Mastery Method and the host of your own private podcast, The Lazy Girl CEO. I kind of like that. Thank you. Welcome to the show. Give us your dot coms. How can people find you on the interwebs? Sure.

You can find me at Meredith DeSantos, so my full name dot com, and I'm also on Instagram. It's M-E-R-E DeSantos. Find me there, too. I feel like you just announced me to come up to bat at Femway. There you go.

That was great. People keep telling me. They go, can I have you People keep telling me, they go, can I have you just to follow me around, announce me whenever I walk into any room? You know, here comes the president sort of thing. We'll have some music that comes up. So there you go.

So Meredith, give us the 30,000 overview of what you do in your words. Sure. So I really help creative entrepreneurs, mainly women, but some men too, deprogram from hustle culture. So what does that mean? Really take the shutting out of things. I should do this type of job. I should work nine to five.

It success only comes if you're working hard and deprogramming them by showing their human design and reprogramming their subconscious so that they get rid of the limiting beliefs from their childhood, informative years so that they can truly live the life that they want and not be held back. And then we pair that with strategic business planning, because my background comes from that packaging place, where I'm able to strategize projects and build them up. But also at the same time, removing those energy blocks that can hold you back, because I have a lot of A-list clients who have energy blocks and their businesses are stagnant because of it. Those mental blocks that we inherit from childhood sometimes can really limit us. Kind of like, what do they call it? Some people call it like an air conditioning effect where if you get too successful, you sabotage. Where if you get too

unsuccessful, you tend to get motivated and get back on the stick to try and do the work. And so a lot of people are moving back and forth with them. What do you find is a big stickler for people at a childhood that you usually are dealing with for clients or usually your biggest sort of a client's issues? Imposter syndrome and perfectionism come up a lot. And I think it was the biggest thing for me. I'm a recovering perfectionist and it creeps in a little bit sometimes, but I know how to deal with my perfectionist and I know it's, I'm firstborn. So I see it a lot in firstborns as well. And so it's, yep, we're meant to do things perfectly. Everyone follows us. We know everything because our younger siblings looked up to us for answers. So then it comes to a lot of people don't know everything and are too afraid to admit

that they don't know everything. And it kind of goes from there as well. See, I'm not afraid to admit that I know everything. Wait, is that narcissistic? Maybe. No, I don't know everything, folks. That's why we have great guests like yourself on the show, so that we can learn new stuff every day. I learn so much from all my guests.

And if I'm not learning something new, I'm reminded of something. They're like, oh, yeah, I need to work on that or should work on that. So that's the great thing about the Chris Voss Show. Plug. Self-shameless plug. So tell us a little bit about your upbringing. How were you raised and what kind of influenced you? Obviously, being a first child, I'm a first child too so I know what

that's like and I'll throw this in as an add-on to the big mantle I just threw on you of tell us about your childhood but also being a first child is the reason we want we're expected perfectionist because our parents kind of expected us to be the perfect first first pioneer of parenthood. Exactly. There you go. It's true. So tell us about how you were raised and how that influenced you and got you where you are today. So if I didn't give away where I'm from with the Fenway reference, I'm from Boston, if you're not into baseball. Boston, man.

Yes, I don't have the Boston accent. And I was raised in a family where everything was really perfect on the outside. We lived in a really great in the 1% outside of Boston. And I always felt like I was different. I didn't like that I grew up in a Stepford wife territory. Yeah, I had a lot expected of me. I was expected to have straight A's. I was expected to be teacher's pet, to be the best at sports.

And it put this pressure on myself where I didn't even want my parents to come to my games because I was afraid of failing and I was already predicting my failure. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I would just tell them, don't come. And then I would get resentful that they didn't show up, even though I told them not to come. And so there lied my issues that I had to really work on. And, you know, there were tough things that happened in my childhood. There was a little bit of verbal and emotional abuse. And I love my parents. I think they did the best with what they had. And it created this resilience inside me where I had this really hard work ethic, but it put this amount of pressure where I had this really hard work ethic, but it put this amount of

pressure where I was constantly getting straight A's and I built all of my self-worth on my parents being proud of me. There you go. You know how you beat that. You do what I did. You don't get straight A's. I actually tried that once, Chris. One semester my freshman year, I decided that I wasn't going to try. So I got some B's and C's. And when that report card was coming, I got so scared that I made a fake report card. But I got caught. Yes, yes. I intercepted that report card.

But then I got caught and learned my lesson. And in the end, it hurt me because I had to work so hard to get into college. And so you learned the important lesson, don't get caught, right? Was that it? No. Yeah, that was an important lesson. Run a better scam next time. I think that's what I was learning in high school was how to fake it till you make it sort of. But you know, a lot of people go through that. So what got you into being a coach and helping other people with these issues? Sure. So I was in the entertainment industry for a while, and I thought I wanted to be an agent. So I was working up the ladder that way and really started to lose my passion.

And I had an opportunity to go into the wellness space in my 20s, but I just wasn't ready for it yet. I think I had to go through more life experiences. And so I rose up the executive rank at a production company loved packaging projects working with A-list talent and I saw that a lot of people had these blocks and I was walking writers through overcoming these blocks so that they could get the project done and I was really holding their hands through it and these are successful people that you had no idea they had imposter syndrome or felt like they couldn't get it done. And they were on deadlines because they were contracted to deliver it at a certain time to me. So I worked hard with them to kind of hold their hand, foster them through it. And it was in that time where I thought,

I want to help other people outside of this crazy industry, people who maybe don't have a person like me who can help them do it all and have ideas. And I had friends around me who had great ideas but didn't feel like they could start or maybe they had some failure to launch. So I first started working with them to see how could I get this program going? What is my method? And that's when I discovered human design and how that might work. Yeah. And then you got into, I believe, NLP and different things there? Yep. And neurolinguistic programming, I got board certified because I had a lot of things happen in my childhood, in my 20s, that therapy never fixed for me. It was always talking about the why. And I knew the why I had the issues. It was, I want to move beyond this. Why are we still talking about

the same thing? And NLP reprograms your subconscious, as you probably know, to no longer have those energy blocks and attachments and neural pathways are cleared so that those same events don't trigger you. There you go. Yeah, you could move on and grow. Now, you call yourself the lazy entrepreneur, I believe, and you've got the lazy podcast.

Tell us what that lazy connotation, what is important to you? What does that signal indicate? Yeah. So lazy really can trigger people when they hear it because it's maybe what their parents told them. My parents never called me lazy because again, I was an overachiever. I could learn to be lazy. And so when I discovered human design, I saw that I was a projector. And for those who don't know what human design is, it's essentially combined sources around your birth date of Kabbalah, the I Ching, quantum physics, and many other sources to create

an energetic and genetic blueprint of how you operate. And I was a projector who can't hustle, who burns out easily. And I was so offended. That's what I was because I thought my superpower was not burning out. But if I looked around myself and at my health, I was. I just wasn't admitting it. So I learned to deprogram myself and that I needed to get a little lazy and then to own the word lazy as being restful and not actually not doing work. Just being lazy. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, they're one of the problems you have.

And I imagine, I don't know if you are ADD driven. You have the CEO mean, they're one of the problems you have. And I imagine, I don't know if you are ADD driven, you have the CEO disease, they call it, the ADHD, ADD driven. A lot of first children are because we're kind of pounded with that perfection we've been talking about. From thanks mom and dad for the scars, but that's a parent's job anyways to scar your children so they have something to talk about in therapy. Otherwise, they'd just be laying on the mat the whole time going, I feel fine. I stole that joke from a comedian. It's not mine. But no, it's one of the things I had to learn.

And I was actually addressing this, I think, on Facebook or something. But one of the problems I had to learn was to enjoy my weekends, take weekends off. When you work for yourself or you have the ceo disease you know you're usually what you're doing is very 24 7 sort of thing you live it you breathe it you know i started my first company i was 18 i remember i would dream it got to the point when we were at our peak of busyness i would dream about what i was going to do the next day you know if i was going to fire somebody i dream about firing them all my dreams were about the next day. If I was going to fire somebody, I'd dream about firing them. All my dreams were about the next day of business that I would do.

And every now and then I'd dream about something else other than business, and I'd just be elated. I'd be like, oh my God, that was so nice to dream about something other than business. I was literally living and sleeping business. Yes. Because I would just dream about whatever was going on the next day and what the meeting was going to be about. And I would, I mean, it was insane.

And so I had to learn to start taking breaks, start taking time out. Well, I've never been a vacation person. I had to learn to really enjoy my weekends. And I do that now where I spend time enjoying my weekends. And so I invoke a lot of that, what you talk about, trying to encourage a little bit of laziness and restfulness. Yeah, definitely. So that you can recharge your battery. And then that way you can greet the Monday with new energy and intent.

And you'll perform better. Have you noticed that? Yeah, yeah, I do. I need that break and time out. I just need it. And I make sure that on the weekends I go do something that takes care of me. I might go get a $100 steak or go out and eat or go out and visit with friends. Socialize is really important too for me as well. It is. Yeah, for everyone. I even notice sometimes I don't want to go out maybe because I do have the CEO disease. And so if I go out, I could be doing something for

my business instead of meeting up with my friends. You feel guilty. Yeah, you feel guilty. And then you go and you feel so much better. You come home and you're like, thank God I went. And I have a 14-month-old son. And I think that's also what helps me. It kind of can feel a little crazy at times. But what helps me get into my lazy is being present with him.

Because I don't want to be distracted when I'm with him. And that's hard when we have that CEO disease and you have ADHD, you know, and every, you know, every five seconds you're like squirrel, squirrel. And you know, my, my ADHD fell off a lot with old age, just broken down old age. But then I found out I was low on testosterone. So I started getting testosterone therapy and boy, that's that ADHD came back like a fricking freight train vengeance. And yeah, even now I still have to deal with it.

I, you know, I still have to be kind of aware of it and be like, okay, no squirrels, no squirrels, squirrels. You don't have to look at the squirrels.

Squirrels fine. Squirrels going to go do whatever squirrel wants, but you know, it's still a challenge challenge one thing you talk about is whole hustle culture what is hustle culture for those who don't know what it is or let's lay a foundation for sure the show and then why you know what's wrong with hustle culture i guess yeah so hustle culture is that you constantly need to be working hard and long hours to be successful or have success. It's also built on success being around materialistic items. So whether it's your title, your house, your car, things like that.

And even in order to attain those things, you must be working long hours beyond nine to five. And if you're not constantly busy, then you're not busy enough or doing enough. And so then we value ourself on busy instead of what it means to be productive, which is actually working less and getting more done. And this is a problem a lot of entrepreneurs and CEOs have, delegating, right? And so they want to try and do everything and anything. And I still have that problem to this day where I'm like, I can problem to stay where i'm like i can do it better than a va and i can do it faster and i know i can do better but it's like you have more important things that you need to prioritize in your life and that being present like you mentioned with

your son's really important too because as a leader if you're not present if you're off in 50 million different ways people can sense that you're scatterbrained and they can sense that they're like, I'm not sure if I trust his leadership because he's a little bit scattered and he isn't organized and he's not delegating right. And people see that. And I think that affects your relationship with them. A thousand percent.

And you can't be telling other people, especially myself, I can't say, be lazy, be this, be that. And then I'm constantly doing things and not resting. It would be such a contradiction. It would be terrible. I'd be a fraud. And so is it hard for me to do it at times? A thousand percent. But I think delegation, I delegate my social media because it takes me too long. And I think the best way for people who are confused about how to figure out what they can delegate is creating an hourly rate for yourself. But never tell anyone your hourly rate.

Just have it in your head. Of what you're worth. Yeah, of what you're worth. And if the item is lower than what you're worth, you delegate that out. And my worth with my son is more important than trying to figure out social media. So I'm going to hire someone to do that. Yeah, or hire your son to do that. You know,

that's what the 14 month old will be great. I mean, he already picks up the phone. Good at like paper shredding, I think. Yep. I don't know. There's probably some other things they're good at.

I'm sure. Firing. He says no a lot. Oh, does he? Yeah. You have the kid run HR at 14 months. I can see it right now.

You'll go, you'll fire. I don't know what kids. I don't know. It's pretty close. That it right now. You'll go. You'll fire. I don't know what kids. I don't know. It's pretty close. That's pretty close. You'll fire. You know, he's any, and then he poops.

So there you go. You go. You stinky diaper. Bye. So there you go. But you call yourself the lazy girl CEO. Then I think you have the podcast. Yes.

It's called, and it's a private podcast, right? People have to privately subscribe to this. Is that how it works? That's how it works. And I bring on other people within my world and outside of my world to talk about how they really deprogrammed from hustle culture, how they might run their businesses or work with their clients. My first guest was Andy Alleman Eaton, who's a big influencer. And she talks about how she combines human design with social media. And we both went through how it can really create an attraction style for everyone and be completely unique because we both do that. And it's also solo episodes with myself.

The latest one I'm releasing on Friday is about how to access empathy and how it's really the solution for all things but empathy is really hard for us especially right now in charged times to feel like for people we may not agree with but it's so important yeah i'm always having to remember you know whenever i'm like a facebook or something i'm like don't choke them have empathy don't choke them have empathy yeah exactly i mean they're suffering it would suck to be in their head yeah that's true maybe that's the perspective i should take on it it would suck to be in that person's head yeah they're you know they're losing it me i just still want to choke them but

evidently there's laws against it so i have something bad could happen yeah you don't want to do that don't do violence people, people. It's not good. Take a breather. Relax. Take a, you know, do some meditation. Read Marcus Aurelius Meditations or something. Do some yoga. Breath work.

Reach out to Meredith for NLP. Yeah, clearly something in your childhood is triggering you, so I will help you. Definitely. It's always this. It's just my biggest trigger is stupid people, But I don't know. You mentioned in your bio that you sent over, you mentioned that 82% of women owned businesses never hit a 100K revenue. Is that really true, those statistics? Wow. And it's something that I think is more important than ever, especially when we're the largest consumers in the household. And so I'm really passionate. I do a group hybrid coaching that's for women only

because I find that men can certainly suffer from perfectionism. So I'm not leaving them out in this. But statistically, women do more. And it starts between the ages of 7 to 10 for women. So I just like to create a safe space for women and kind of an incubator to get their companies launched and scaled in less than three months. And I keep them really small so that they have enough attention from myself. There you go.

So what do you feel are some of the top points or top point maybe that is the reason that holds women back like that? They can't break that 100K. Yeah. I think multiple things if it's within themselves it's generational trauma maybe there were programmings where people never made past 5 000 a month maybe there are programs of analysis paralysis so there are definitely emotional blocks and money blocks that can be carried through generations. I also do think, and I don't want to get too political, but there are systems in place that have made it harder for

women. Now it's getting totally better. But when you think that we didn't have credit cards around the same time as men, that's just nuts. And so I think that women have had to work through so many barriers within our country to get access to financing for their companies. And these things are changing. But it's a combination of both getting their foot in the door and getting access. And also these programmings we've had because generations before us didn't have that access. So we need to clear those out so that they're not carrying them.

There you go. It's definitely a challenge being an entrepreneur and doing everything. And a lot of people, they have that perfectionist thing that, I've heard that over the decades of the years, they'll be like, hey, Chris, I'm going to start a company and run companies like you. And I'm just like, okay, we'll do it. And they're like, I'm just waiting for things to be perfect. Perfect, yeah. And you're like, there's never waiting for things to be perfect. Perfect, yeah. And you're like, there's never. There's never a perfect time? You'll tell them, I've started almost three dozen companies.

There's never a perfect time. You just do it. No. I started this company right when I gave birth. You think that was a perfect time for me to start this company? Yeah. That's a little hard to fill out those applications when you're in the birthing bed and you're shooting stuff out. I don't know what that means.

Somebody catch that baby. It's never a perfect time. And you just need to do it. Analysis paralysis is basically what you're talking about, too, where a lot of people I work with get stuck on, what color of this branding may not be right. What color should my website be? And I'm like, who cares about the damn color? Pick something, and you can change it.

I don't think people realize they can change the colors of the website. You can always change the branding. Just do it. What are you doing worrying about all this? Yeah, see, I was very different when I started my companies. I recognized that very early on. And I don't know. I recognized that very early on. And I don't know why I knew that.

I don't know if I read books on it or if I just kind of learned through all the experiments of, you know, little companies that start when I was beginning out. And, you know, they kind of fail quickly or they just wouldn't kick. And so early on, I just learned it was more about the substance of the company than trying to get the right logo, trying to get the right name. I remember when we launched our second big company, our mortgage company, I was literally, we couldn't come up with a name for the mortgage company. One of the problems was at the time, there were so many names that were taken. But I couldn't get myself and my board to come up with a name to the point that I was literally down at the Department of Corporations with the filing without a name. And I'm standing there, I think it was at 8 a.m. in the morning or something, and we didn't have a name. And I'm screaming at people on the phone going, I need a name for this damn thing. I have the business model.

I have, I mean, we kind of had the logo, but I didn't really care about the logo. But we had the whole concept of the business. Everything was prepared. We had the office. We had everything set up. We just need a name for this stupid thing. And I remember going through that with a few subsequent companies at the time where we couldn't. I'm just like, I don't care what the name is.

Let's just get this company rolling. I have the business model for it. And, you know, we finally came up came with a name and it was funny we actually someone showed up half an hour later with the same name we had to fight over it because the department corporations thought that they had gotten their first it was a great name it was park place mortgage i mean that is great did you win we did yeah we did win in fact it was funny they told us we couldn't have the name because someone had beat us to the thing, and I took my time stamp down.

I don't think so, man. We were there. That's not possible. We were there when the gate opened, so I'm not sure how someone beat us there when I was standing there. But I remember standing there just going, give me anything. And in fact, come to think of it, we did name it. We named it Ace Mortgage, and people in Utah didn't like that

because it connotated gambling and cards. didn't even cross my mind yeah i was i thought of it as ace like flying ace because you know i grew up with sort of that world war ii sort of building model airplanes and stuff but you know that was example i see of a lot of entrepreneurs that you know they their failure to launch is usually you you know, I'll see them years later. Hey, did you ever launch that company? And they're like, no, I'm still just waiting for the timing to be right and the perfect. It's never going to happen. That's why I love working with entrepreneurs and using my methods to get them going.

Because we get, we reprogram that so fast that they are even shocked by the time they're profitable and when they're able to launch. And I think a lot of that comes down to some of the NLP work and human design and seeing that just getting it out there and doing the energy work with actual action helps people see that they can move past that. Because it's a real barrier to start a company. So let's talk about some of the services of yours people can find on your website, some of the different offerings, how they can work with you. I see there's a free HD chart. Tell us about some of the things you have there that people can onboard with you and work with you on. Sure. So if you want to get into human design and dip your toe, you can get your free human design chart on my website.

And then you're welcome to schedule a session with me where I basically in 90 minutes will give you a whole blueprint of how you operate. And if you let me know some of your goals, I'll be able to tailor that session to you to show you how your human design can do that. I also lead people through a program, either group hybrid or one-on-one. And I help you take an idea and launch your company in less than three months. And I also give you a blueprint at the end of how you can continue it and continue scaling for six months afterwards. And then you're welcome to work with me still one-on-one or do sessions as you need. And the next group hybrid is launching September 18th, which I'm really excited for because entrepreneurs get to be in a community. And that's the kind of plus side of

being in a group hybrid because it can be a very, I don't know how you feel, lonely space journey. And so it's kind of nice to connect with people who are like-minded in doing it. Oh yeah. And you're, you know, what's the old adage? You are the five people you surround yourself with. And having that mindset is really important. You know, years ago when I'd lost my long-term business partner, I didn't have really a board anymore or any sort of people I could run ideas by that I trusted. And so I had to create this circle of entrepreneurs that were like me. And we kind kind of did a what I call a virtual board and so I told him I said hey look let me be able to run you know ideas past you and things

I'm thinking about doing and get your advice if you don't mind and I will offer you the same in return and that worked out really good because you know they they were kind of in the same boat with some of their entrepreneurism and solo entrepreneurs. But yeah, having people that can guide you, help you. And it is a lonely journey being an entrepreneur, isn't it, for a lot of people? Yeah, I think so. I think because I've learned to surround myself that it hasn't been similar to what you have done. And if people listening are thinking, I have no one in my life who wants to be an entrepreneur or has my drive, then listen to podcasts like this one, where you're surrounded by people who have that drive.

Listen to other ones. And then that will actually bring the energy out into the universe for more people to come to you. But you can't stay in the current energy of the people who aren't entrepreneurs. So if you don't have that, listening to this podcast and others will help you bring that to you, to yourself. well and building there you know having that support really helps because it's you know when you're starting a company and for the first while until you get like hundreds of employees which is a whole new annoying level i mean it's a privilege but it can be challenging i don't miss the days of hundreds of employees. I loved them all. They were wonderful.

Not all of them were wonderful. We sued the ones that weren't. Empathy. I need to tattoo that to my forehead. But, you know, it is a lonely thing. How can people reach out to you and see if you're fit? How can they onboard with you and see which program works best for them? You can email me directly and we can do a free consult.

So my email is meredith, M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H at meredithdesantos.com. And we can chat and really see what's the best avenue for you. There you go. So they can onboard, give us the.com one more time as we go out. Sure. meredithdesantos.com. There you go. Meredith, it's been fun to have you, very insightful. And hopefully we've encouraged some people to be, you know to be slightly lazy if they're a perfectionist, because there's probably room for the movement there. I agree. I've had so much fun. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. And thanks for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss,

linkedin.com forward slash Chris Voss, one of the TikTokity and all those crazy places on the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.