The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Merkel’s Law: Wisdom from the Woman Who Led the Free World by Melissa Eddy

Episode Date: August 16, 2024

Merkel's Law: Wisdom from the Woman Who Led the Free World by Melissa Eddy https://amzn.to/3ArECyN In the vein of Notorious RBG, a fun and inspiring biography filled with lessons from the most powerful woman in the world, based on more than a decade’s worth of coverage of German Chancellor Angela Merkel from New York Times Berlin correspondent Melissa Eddy. Angela Merkel is a boss. A trailblazer. An icon of colorful suits. Formerly the new leader of the free world. With an entire hand gesture named after her (the “Merkel Diamond”) and celebrated in a viral meme for sparring with Trump, Angela Merkel spent a decade economically and politically revitalizing her country. The first woman chancellor of Germany and one of the longest-serving European leaders ever, Merkel’s quiet resolve, calculated confidence, and extreme privacy around her personal life have made her a feminist role model for the ages. Merkel’s Law is a revelatory look at an unlikely vanguard, and at the country she led for sixteen years. No one is better positioned than New York Times Berlin correspondent Melissa Eddy to pull back the curtain on the woman who engineered Germany’s rise to wealth, power, and an economy worth 3.8 trillion in USD. Drawing upon an unparalleled well of sources close to Merkel, Merkel’s Law traces her childhood in East Germany as the daughter of a clergyman, her meteoric rise to power, and her more recent public acclaim—as well as the numerous setbacks she faced along the way both from political rivals and from men in her own party who scoffed at her ambition. Painting a portrait of a political genius, savvy businesswoman, and model for modern power, Merkel’s Law is not only the story of her life, but the lessons we can learn from it.Melissa Eddy is a journalist based in Berlin who covers German business, economics, and politics for The New York Times. She has covered Chancellor Angela Merkel since she entered office in 2005. A Minnesota native fluent in German and French, she came to Germany as a Fulbright scholar in 1996. Before joining The International Herald Tribune, now the international edition of The New York Times, in 2015, she was a correspondent for the Associated Press in Frankfurt, Vienna, and the Balkans. Merkel’s Law is her first book.

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Chris Voss is one of the TikTok and all those crazy places on the internet. We have another amazing author on the show with us today. We're excited to have her. And her new book that's out August 20th, 2024. You can pre-order it right now. It's called Merkel's Law, Wisdom from the Woman Who Led the Free World. Melissa Eddy joins us on the show today. We'll be talking about her book. She is a journalist based in Berlin that covers German business, economics, and politics for the New York Times. She has covered Chancellor Angela Merkel since she entered office in 2005. She's a Minnesota native fluent in German and French, and she came to Germany on a Fulbright

scholarship in 1996. After joining the International Herald Tribune, she is now the international edition of the New York Times. She is the international edition of the New York Times. She is the international edition of the New York Times. The. That's what it actually says in the bio. So there you go. In 2015, she was a correspondent for the Associated Press in Frankfurt, Vienna, and the Balkans. And this is her first book. Welcome to the show, Melissa. Thank you. Great to be here.

You are the embodiment of the international edition of the New York Times. That is quite the title. I'm trying. There you go. You're just like a pillar of that Asian institution. So, Melissa, give us your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? I'm on Twitter at Medi at NYT. I'm also on LinkedIn. And you can, of course, find me through my New York Times webpage, which is at the Times. Just go put my name in the search and I come right up. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? I spent 16 years covering Angela Merkel. She was a huge part of my life.

And the book looks at the influences that she had on me and lessons that I learned from her as a leader, watching her lead and that I'm hoping to impart on readers to share a little bit of the wealth, if you will. There you go. She was an incredible leader, the longest serving European leader ever. Is that correct? Not quite. She lost out to that for a couple of days to, well, German leader, to Helmut Kohl, who

was in a little bit longer than her. At the end, it was like a tick-tock. Who was going to be longer? It's going to be longer. It does say one of the longest. She one of yes for sure but yeah she had a she was a very interesting leader for a long time so for sometimes with george bush w she seemed like the adult in the room i think she was always the adult room i shouldn't say that that was the only time but you would see her against certain world leaders you know putin of course, she certainly didn't have any sort of, she didn't seem to like

him very much. Is that a good assessment? She always said she understood him. She knew his type because, you know, she grew up in under communism, in a dictatorship. And she grew up with Russian, Soviet, actually, soldiers stationed in her hometown. And she knew all about spies. And Putin was trained as a spy. So she kind of had his number from the get-go. And she wasn't going to let him pull any punches. There you go. Maybe we should have gotten George W. Bush back in the day.

Remember when George Bush was like, I'm Putin's best friend now. Yeah, that didn't go so well. She played the card better. So give us a little bit of history about yourself, how you grew up and what got you into journalism? What got you into writing and all that good stuff? So I grew up actually real Midwestern, normal, small town girl. My dad was the family pharmacist of our town. I went to a public high school and I always had a sense that the world was a bigger place than where I was at any given moment in Minnesota and I wanted to go out and see it. I loved languages, had an early knack for learning languages in high school. I learned French. I

wanted to learn German. They told me no. I was already taking one foreign language. I couldn't take another and that was a real driver then to keep going. So I just started heading east. I went to the East Coast for college. And then I made my first trip to Europe, spent some time over here and was just sort of taken by all the history and that you could cross borders and be in within a span of a day in three different countries speaking three different languages. So I thought there's got to be a way to actually marry that with a profession. And that's how I came up with journalism. And of course, this was back in the 90s when journalism was, we had a little different scene. It was more vibrant in some ways, you know,

different ways to break in and what there is now. And I joined the Associated Press, and they gave me a real boost. And I've always had good work here and stayed on here. And next thing I know, I spent 16 years covering Angela Merkel. There you go. And so quite the thing. You were positioned just perfectly for that then. Yeah, it wound up actually being quite ironic. I moved up to Berlin from Frankfurt in 2005, a couple of months before Merkel became the chancellor, was elected chancellor. It was unexpected. And I remember,

you know, the first night, one of the nights that she was completely stunned herself when she was elected, because it just, you know, it came down to the wire. You've got a multi-party system here. So it comes down to coalition building, horse trading. And when she was finally the chancellor, I think she was as surprised as anybody, but of course she was very calm about it. And when she was asked, you know, Madam Chancellor, how are you feeling? She basically said, I've got a lot of work to do. And that kind of set the tone for the next 16 years. There was not going to be a lot of gushing or show, definitely not an outward display of emotion, but like a lot of just getting down to work. And I guess as a Midwesterner, I was sort of

raised with those values. And there's maybe a little bit of resonance for me in Merkel's approach to a real practical, get the job done kind of approach to life that always really resonated with me. There you go. And so she had kind of an interesting life that's different than most politicians, didn't she? Didn't she have an engineering degree and a few different things in science and stuff? Yes.

So she got her PhD in physics. She became a chemical physicist. I think you would say you got to be smart for that. Yeah. No, she Merkel is smart. Merkel is whip smart. She is often,

you know, people who've been around her a lot will say she can just, you get a thick Germans love thick folders. You know, there'll be like this, like half a foot thick, she can inhale it all and just take it all in. And famously when, when she met Donald Trump, who she knew was not as much of a fan of reading as she was, she made great pains to boil things down, read through everything and then boiled things scientific approach that she that she spent you

know the first or the first what decade of her career um where it was a you know weighing options and looking at at different things and and it was not you know as argumentative maybe as as a lot of the lawyers that you get in germany who into politics. It was much more informed. And she would drive people crazy sometimes because it would take her a while to make a decision. She wanted all the information first. She wanted to look at it. She wanted to weigh her options.

But then once she made it, she was clear. And she would make up her mind and she would stick with it. There you go. Now, in the book, do you cover her birth to elected office era, or do you just cover the years of her office holding? So I start with her birth just because that was also unique. She was born in a dictatorship. She only gained freedom when she was in her 30s. And she actually never thought that that would happen.

She thought she would get to the United States of America when she retired, because that's when people in the GDR and the German Democratic Republic, former East Germany, could cross over to the United States. And I think that's really key to understanding part of her approach to leadership. She really is a firm believer in democracy, but she also lived through the collapse of one political system. So she had no illusions that things can last forever. She understood very deeply and almost viscerally that if you want democracy to succeed, you're going to have to fight for it and that it's not a given.

And I think growing up in the States, sometimes it's all we've known. And so we just kind of take it for granted to a certain extent. And Merkel never did. So I felt it was real important to give readers this understanding of who she is, not just the decision she made in office,

but I think her background also very much informed how she approached leadership. Her father was a Lutheran pastor, and so she was raised in the church. And one thing you have to understand is the church in the former East Germany was also very political. It was almost radical because the government didn't want them around. So she had this sort of very Lutheran, also, you know, very sort of down to earth approach to leadership that informed her. But she also learned very, very early on, you know, to keep your cards close, don't necessarily let everyone know what you're thinking until you're ready for it to come out. and to be very wary merkle is not someone who you get close to easily she she's very protective of her personal privacy and and of her circle is is loyalty is is key there you go very very sort

of masculine traits there i mean the you know logic and using reason and making good decisions but yeah the coming from that background of the fall of germany at least the the ussr side people i still use the ussr that's how old i am it's all right we know what that is that way there's no confusion i still remember cowering under my steel desk because that was going to defend me against the Russian nuclear bombs, of course. We all know that works perfectly. Right. So, I mean, there's no one going to be left over to tell otherwise.

But it is interesting to see how Russia is working today. One of the things you talk about in the book is the pinnacle or what you call the Merkel diamond, or I'm not sure if you coined that term, but the Merkel diamond. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, it's her hands like this, which actually, if I may, you'll see, we chose that for the cover of the book. It's kind of a funny story because she became incredibly well known for this. You would always see her standing and she would have her hands in this position. And people started noticing it and commenting on it. And she herself tried to sort of blow it off and just say, oh, I had to do something with my hands. And women don't have pockets, so we can't stick our hands in our pockets. And so that became what I did with my

hands. But then it kind of became a trademark for her. And when she ran for office, second time, suddenly this hand gesture became like the symbol and you would have posters of the letter I, a heart, and then this, this miracle diamond sign. And it's one of the cases for me that I think is very clever that, you know, it happened with Merkel a couple of times where she would take something that was kind of intended as a negative or criticism and kind of turn it on its head and own it and give it her own stamp and make it her own. The other one was that she was known as Mutti, which is German for mommy. Yeah, when she first took office. And this was, of course, derogatory. Oh, mommy will take care of everything. Yeah, in the beginning.

So in her first term in office, it was sort of anyone who was trying to downplay, oh, mommy, you know, it was sort of dismissive. But over the course of the 16 years, again, she took ownership of this, and she turned it around and really kind of made it into a positive, all the positives that are associated with a mother, and also the idea of, you know, a mother being in control of the family. And by the end of her term, it was used affectionately, that she was, you know, muti was, it was sort of a great term of affection, even in the press. So I thought it, with the hands really leaning into those was, was quite symbolic of, of one of her abilities that, that I think distinguished her, that she was, she was able to just kind of silently take ownership of, of some of these traits that would come up, you know,

early on sort of as memes and, and really own them. Was, was the, what is this? Was it the Muti? Was it a, it was a sexist sort of as memes and really own them. Was the Mooty, was it a sexist sort of thing at first where people were like, oh, we're going to run an office and she's going to just be the mother. She's not going to be a real leader. It was a slight that way, huh? It was a slight that way, yeah. Because it was sort of assumed that she would only last, if at most, a four-year term, which is your standard term in Germany, if a government doesn't collapse. And there were enough men circling around who thought, okay, you know, she managed to land this coalition.

We'll let her lead this government. And then, you know, we'll move her along. And once she got into power, she made sure that she held on to it until she was ready to relinquish it. Sounds like she was very wise in her decisions. We should get to Ramstein, Ramstein, Ramstein? Ramstein, yeah. Ramstein to do a song about this. It's amazing how huge they are in Germany.

It's just crazy. I watch their concerts and I'm like, holy crap. I have no idea what they're saying, but it sounds awesome. You don't need to know. Some things, it's just better to go with it. Yeah, I think I read one song and went, yeah, maybe I don't need to know. But so,

you know, she seemed always very wise. She seemed always very composed. Like I said, I mean, do you write about that incident that was kind of a kerfuffle when George Bush put his hands on her shoulders and was rubbing them and she kind of shook it off know it seemed like that was a moment that right that really resonates with American because she you know he put his hands on on her shoulders it was at the group of

it was then the group of eight summit uh that was being hosted in Germany and she hosted a special barbecue for him in in her constituency. It was quite a big deal. And he came up behind her and she jumped, but she just managed to laugh it off. And sort of, you know, Bush was later asked about it and he would say, oh, you know, it was a friendly gesture. It was taken as a friendly gesture. There was some talk, you know, because with a woman leader, even, you know, initially the Germans were all very, you know, uncertain. How do we deal with this? How do we write about it?

You know, when she first came into office, it was all about her clothes. It was about her hair. And it was then like third tier came her policies. And she just kind of would keep going. And she has this motto that, that it sounds better in German, it kind of sounds a bit clunky in English, but it's basically that power lies in calm, or in in peace. So it's sort of like a still waters run deep kind of kind of approach, but in relationship to power. And I think this is sort of a key to understanding Merkel is that she, I'll give you an example. So she was sitting next to another woman in a big convention, and this other woman was from the church and had said something and was, you know, this political party, everyone else at the convention was really upset. And so Merkel just sort of turned, as

everyone was like, sort of verbally attacking this woman and demanding answers and all, Miracle turned to her and just sort of said, you know, just let them blow off their steam. You can just wait, wait for everyone to calm down and then you can answer. And this was very much her approach. Of course, some people felt she waited too long often before answering, but more often than not, it gave her the time to reflect and to make sure that what she was saying, she knew what she wanted to say. And she got her point across. Yeah. It's better to think about things and be wise and make a wise decision than to, what was it, Shakespeare used to say, it's better to keep your mouth closed and be thoughtful than to open it and prove it. Yeah, exactly.

It's what I do on a daily basis. But yeah, it's very Marcus Aurelius stoic sort of Machiavellian, what she's doing and being a very wise leader, being a very thoughtful leader and being pragmatic in her delivery and what she wants to do. And that pinnacling, I had read a long time ago that the pinnacling thing, going like this, whether you're sitting up on a desktop or whether Trump hangs it down when he sits really low, and I don't think he does a very good job of it, but he's always doing that when he sits, if you see. Probably trying to hide his diaper, I don't know.

But it basically means you're in your highest level of thought process and it kind of that's interesting it kind of helps it's a body language thing that when you my dad used to have all these body language books and so the pinnacling kind of means you're in your highest order of thought process you're deep in thought and you're you're kind of high in your wisdom thing i I don't know. Well, that would, that would fit. That would definitely fit. I mean, she did it all the time. Sometimes just posing for a picture, but certainly, you know, when,

when she was speaking, giving a press conference, talking, you know, meeting the press, talking to us, it was there. And also you would see it in the world stage, you know, with, with European summits, other leaders. And yeah, that, that tracks. It's a good power move because it basically, that's what it signals. I am in my highest thought process. And just one more thing on it.

The irony was, is then this most recent election when she was no longer running and her finance minister, Olaf Scholz, who is now Germany's chancellor, he started doing that as well. Like, sort of like, I can be chancellor. Lachschultz, who is now Germany's chancellor, he started doing that as well. Like, sort of like, I can be chancellor. Look, look. It was this like real sort of demonstration. He, of course, now that he's in office has stopped.

But during the campaign, it popped up a couple of times. It's kind of interesting how, what do they call them, a mnemonic anchor or something like that? There's the anchors that people have when leaders or people, it's kind of a marketable thing. But there's like a mnemonic sort of, a mnemonic would indicate it's a word. But there's basically signaling that people do. Like I remember Bill Clinton always had that knuckle. Oh, yeah. It was like that, always when he's making a point, heinton always had that knuckle oh yeah it was like that always defined he would always when he's making a point you'd always have that knuckle fist

and so it's kind of interesting because you get used to it and you you identify with it and and i think is electric does she want to run one more term i i can't remember if she really wanted to or not no she didn't she actually her aides people close to her were saying that after her third term, she was ready to step down. Yeah. But the third term was so close after the refugee, the arrival of so many refugees into Germany. Her party was under pretty intense fire. And she just, she said she felt obligated to finish the job with that. And of course, there's also the narrative that she met with Obama, and it was pretty clear that the United States was in for a wild ride.

And so she decided to run that fourth term, but that was the last one. And she had no desire to run again, especially after the COVID crisis. It really took its toll on her, which of course, you know, initially she was on top of her game. She was a scientist. She was able to talk the talk with, you know, everyone who was making the decisions, all of the scientists, the medical professionals, she was talking to the WHO. And Germany handled the first lockdown really well. Things were great. But then as it got turned into the second and there was more political jockeying amongst the governors who had to agree with the chancellor on what were we going to do, it became stickier.

And you could see visibly, she became more tired. And she also really just believed it was time for a change. She had been in office long enough. And she was tired on the one hand. But she had said this thing famously a long time ago, which was she didn't want to leave office as a half dead wreck were her words. And I think she understood that if she outstayed her welcome, she was not too far away from that. So she willingly just stepped aside and said, it's somebody else's turn. Yeah, there you go.

I remember the faces that she would make around Donald Trump and I think there was a thing with Ivanka. When Ivanka sat down to the table, world leaders, and was trying to fill in for her dad and everyone was like what the fuck so there were lots of interesting moments there were lots of interest and merkle wasn't she was an eye talker she she had an eye roll going on and often she would let her face do the talking if you go back and you look at her first meeting with donald trump did she say anything about what she was thinking about Donald Trump? She did

not. But there's this famous shot where he said, I'm trying to think, he said something about how, you know, they're great friends or something. And she shot him this sideways look. I'm not going to try to imitate because I can't quite do it. But you can find it if you Google it on the internet. And it

spoke volumes. It was just absolutely clear she didn't need to say anything yeah in fact there's a couple videos you can watch online of the best angela merkel moments to look back to i'm right back she showed me she was such a great leader it's it's so great you profiled her i don't you know someone should have done this and so now you've done it but yeah yeah, she was such a great leader. I think she was probably one of the best leaders in Europe at all during her term. You know, so many people came and gone.

You know, the British can only keep, I guess, every week we just change whatever. I joke the British. We have a new prime minister. You know, it's kind of like a rotating. They're just going to put one of those rotating doors in the front of send them through what is it number 10 down street down the street but she was such a great leader and she really seemed to be you know the one person who could stand up to bullies like putin and everything else what do you hope readers come away with after reading your book in many ways when i think about merkel she's a little bit the antithesis of the American politician, or at least recent American politicians we have been with this reflection, this wisdom,

with this sort of very careful consideration. And, you know, she was never herself on social media. She let her team send out messages on social media, but she was not going to be firing things off. And my hope is that readers will understand that what they may have appreciated in her, you know, these are qualities that I think, you know, there's no reason why other leaders can't have them. I hope that they also understand how it is that she came to be seen as such a stabilizing force and some clues into how she stayed in power for so long. And just some insights into some of the sort of miracle moments, if you will, that I was able to enjoy up close by being here all the time.

It's a little bit sharing the wealth, I guess. And I mentioned in the book that there's a point where my friends and I, sometimes my women friends will be like flustered about this or that. And one of us will be just like, okay, wait, what would Merkel do? Like, let's just take a Merkel moment. And it's really just seeing,

having watched her in power for so long come under fire, either as a woman, as a German, even just, you know, in general as a leader, and watch her be able to maintain that calm and create stability through that. I think there's a value to that in general, you know, certainly in a time where we're hyper-polarized and everything moves so quickly that maybe people will also reconsider, does everything need to be so fast? All the time. I mean, there are times you need to... Miracle also had decisions you had to make under the gun. Don't get me wrong. In my job, there are times you cannot stop and reflect. And I know that for millions of people that they also populism there in Europe and you're like oh god We don't need to go back to this. Thank God. They got rid of the European version of Trump with the hair, dude

I forget his name gun purpose, but you know, it seems like things maybe stabilized a little bit more Although I think know the look I guess Le Pen that Le Pen party They didn't quite season France as bad as it was but It was kind of sad to see her step down because she was such a pinnacle of keeping Europe kind of their shit together, at least in my opinion. I don't know. That's my perception of it. So, yeah. I mean, hopefully she's always revered by the German people and what they did for her or what she did for them but like i said she was such a i can still feel the cringe of that moment of her

of george bush rubbing her shoulders with that look on her face i can still feel the cringe but you know what's really interesting is that she and bush became friends like later on i mean it started and then we see this pattern with merkel right? So with Bush, it was like the cringe moment, that back rub moment. And then she asked her advisors, she knew that Bush was Christian. And so having grown up herself in the church, she just asked her advisors, you know, to give her a little bit more information about that. And when she first would sit down with him, she would, you know, she could speak to him about religion, about Christianity, about faith. And I think he

really appreciated that. And she, of course, revered his father, George Bush Sr., because she remembers George Bush Sr. as playing an essential role in allowing Germany to reunify. Because let's not forget that Margaret Thatcher famously said, two Germanys are better than one. And not everyone was real keen on the idea after the fall of the Berlin Wall that Germany reunifies, especially not in Europe. There you go. And it was Bush Sr. who really helped push that through. So she gave him a lot of credit for that.

There you go. Do you talk about that in the book, comparing her to Margaret Thatcher? Yes, a little bit. Just because, you know, when you look at who are the women who've been leaders in, you know, in the world, in the Western world, if you will, Margaret Thatcher is certainly one of the best known. But they had very different styles of leadership. I mean, often during the long euro crisis, when the more indebted members of the eurozone, Greece, Spain, Italy, were really struggling and Merkel was insisting that everybody get their books in order. And this was not like a very popular position, including in Washington. A lot of people thought America was a little too harsh. She became known then as the Iron Lady. But compared to Thatcher, she was much more approachable than what Thatcher was. And she also was much more practical. Thatcher was known famously for handbagging people, using her handbag almost as a weapon. And Koli used her handbags to carry her large folders

of information that she needed. And she was also Merkel was, as a leader, very interested in compromise. And she worked very hard to achieve compromise. She would, in a situation among European leaders where there was like one clear difference or one holdout, she would stop things, take that person aside, have a one-on-one, really listen and try to understand where they're coming from, what the hangups were, and use that position then to try and reach a compromise with everyone. And I think that's why also she was seen very much as the adult in the room and,

and holding Europe together for so long. Yeah, most definitely. The, so give us your final thoughts as we go out and tell people where to pick up the book and dot coms and where people can get to know you better. So the book can be picked up at any of your Amazon's got it. Simon and Schuster.com reads anywhere that you are able to order books.

The book is available and you can find me at MediNYT on X or you can find me on LinkedIn, Melissa Eddy, just at my name, or I'm also reachable through my New York Times connection. If you're a subscriber to the New York Times. There you go. The New York Times. Such a pillar of editorial. Editorial? I'm not.

I try and stay on the editorials a little bit. But pillar of journalism. That's the word I'm looking for. Journalism, yes. I don't know what's going on today. Tuesday must be a Monday for the old brain. But thank you very much, Melissa, for coming on the show. We certainly appreciate it.

And I do have a subscription to the New York Times, and I recommend it as well. Get all the top ones. Available on August 20th, 2024, Merkel's Law, Wisdom from the Woman Who Led the Free World. And I hope we keep it that way after 2025. Pick it up, folks, wherever fine books are sold. As always, refer to the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Faust,iles, linkedin.com, 4chesschristophiles, all those crazy places on the Internet.

Be good to each other, stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time.