The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Mission Ready Building High-Performing Teams from the Battlefield to the Boardroom By William Branum and Brenda Neckvatal

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

Mission Ready Building High-Performing Teams from the Battlefield to the Boardroom By William Branum and Brenda Neckvatal Missionreadyleadership.com ~THE BOOK We will bring you to your next level of business. In today’s fast-paced and competitive business environment, merely keeping up is no longer enough. To truly thrive and outpace the competition, elevating your team to its next level of performance is not just an advantage—it's a necessity. With decades of experience in the most demanding environments imaginable, William brings the unparalleled discipline, leadership, and teamwork skills honed during his 26 years as a U.S. Navy SEAL. Brenda, with her expert insight into HR practices, crisis management, and group dynamics, complements this perfectly, translating these high-stakes military strategies into actionable, impactful corporate methodologies. William Branum is a highly decorated Navy SEAL veteran who served in the United States military for 26 years. During his extensive military career, he honed his leadership skills, cultivated a strong mindset, and gained invaluable experience in high-pressure situations as a sniper instructor, leading teams on operations ranging from protecting the interim Iraqi elected officials to direct action missions in Baghdad as well as specialized in undersea operations with missions that were required to be approved by the President of the United States. After retiring from the military, William has made it his mission to share the lessons he learned with others as a speaker, author, and business, and leadership advisor. William’s expertise in leadership and mindset has been sought after by organizations ranging from small businesses to Fortune 500 companies. He draws on his experiences to provide practical advice on how to cultivate a leadership style that inspires and motivates others, and how to develop the resilience needed to succeed in challenging environments. William's commitment to serving others has also led him to support several philanthropic causes, including the Navy SEAL Foundation and the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. Through his work, Branum continues to inspire individuals and organizations to embrace the qualities that have made him a successful leader: discipline, dedication, and a willingness to push beyond one's limits. Brenda Neckvatal Brenda is an award-winning HR professional, a 2x bestselling author, and has been featured in publications such as Forbes, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, Inc., and US News and World Reports. Perseverance, integrity, and relentless optimism are just a few of the ingredients that make up what you experience when meeting and working with Brenda. Not only does she help business leaders solve their most difficult people issues, but she is also a specialist in group dynamics, crisis management, and HR compliance, and a mentor to professionals in HR working as an HR department of one. She started as an HR sprout after a solid fourteen-year career in retail management. She really enjoys helping people solve their unique problems, and human resources offered her the ability to support her co-workers in a greater capacity. Having the benefit of working for a total of six Fortune 500 companies, she converted her experience into advising her audience to use tried and trusted best practices that help small businesses achieve their workforce goals. In her 30-year career in human resources and business, she has consulted to over 600 small businesses and C-suite leaders. She has optimized employee effectiveness and helped mitigate the high costs associated with making hasty employment-related decisions.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. As always, the Chris Voss Show is a family that loves you but doesn ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys coming by. As always, the Chris Voss Show is a family that loves you but doesn't judge you. And it gives you the wonderful glow, the Chris Voss Show glow, we call it, that once you lap it up, once you absorb yourself in it, you listen to the show, you watch the show, you acquire this glow, this knowledge, this shining kind of aura that

comes about you where when you walk around people go gosh darn it you seem so smart you're like what are you doing what are you taking what are you what's in your coffee and you're like i listen to chris voss show i put some in my coffee every morning be sure to further show your family friends and relatives share the glow damn it quit hogging it go to goodreads.com for chest chris voss linkedin.com, 4chesschrisfast, chrisfast1, the TikTokity, and chrisfastfacebook.com. We have two amazing authors on the show with us today, one who's a multi-book author and one who's brand new.

So we're just breaking them in today. We have their newest book that's coming out called Mission Ready, building high-performing teams from the battlefield to the boardroom. We have William Branaman on the show and Brenda Neckvottle on the show. Did I get those names right, folks? So close. It was good enough. So close.

So William Branaman? There you go. I'm like, I don't even know who you're calling out, but that's fine. You must have listened to Chris Voss' show this morning. There's so much energy. So much energy. So much energy. So much energy. Welcome to the show, folks.

Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Brenda, you go first. All right. So I have one of those wild last names. The easiest way to find me right now, first time, is just yoBrenda.com. Yo Brenda. YoBrenda.com. Yo.

Trying to spell my last name is just about as hard as it is saying it so just yo brenda.com is simple and you can even find me over on social media very easily by finding me at hashtag dear brenda there you go and you sir yeah so if you go to five seal secrets the number five seal like navy seal secrets.com, you can find me over there. And on all the socials, I'm William Branham or William.R.Branham. Pretty easy to Google. Okay. William Branham, Navy SEAL.

You can find me. Okay. So give us a 30,000 overview from each of you, I guess. What's inside this new book? Brenda? So we decided to collaborate. we've known each other for about four years believe it or not we met at a funeral and yeah and it was a mutual friend of ours and will was about two years outside of his retirement from the seals froms, from the SEAL teams. And after we met, we just started talking and I

offered to meet with him on a regular basis. And from there, it was four years of just being accountability partners. And we would talk about what it was that we were doing and we'd celebrate each other's wins. We'd motivate each other and we'd hold each other accountable for the stuff that we were working on. And then Will has always wanted to do a book. I made the suggestion, well, you know, if you want to do, you know, cut your teeth, then, you know, I'm happy to do a book with you. And so we were invited to come speak at an event in Tampa, Florida, a couple of years ago. And that really is actually what pulled the foundation of the book together

because what we were sharing and what we were helping people with were some of the critical components that we feel are very strong that go into a leader developing a high performing team. There you go. I was going to say that I was going to say, I remember the story a little bit differently, but Brenda X. Do we lose? Do we lose you, William? William?

Did you lock up on us? I think you might have. You might have. Oh, there we go. Oh, we're back. We're back. We can hear you. There we can see you.

I was just going to keep just rolling there because it looked like I was still live-ish, but I couldn't see anything. So anyway, yeah, so I was asked to speak at an event. Brenda was asked to speak at the same event and it was on leadership, which was something that I, I have another keynote that I, that I deliver around the world. And I delivered one on, on leadership, which I called, you know, five seal secrets of leadership. And, and it was, you know, leadership through the lens of a gun fight. And after the event, Brenda was like, Hey, do you want to write a book together and i was like yeah i don't know how to do that she's like you just write about what you spoke about i'll write about what i spoke about and we'll put it

together and it turns out to be a very interesting and effective collaboration between two very different skill sets which actually come together to be one very powerful skill set yeah there you and so you guys developed this together over the last little while then? Yes, sir. There you go. So give us a rundown on both your biographies. Tell us a little bit about each of you. I have been in the field of HR for over 30 years now.

I have worked for six from Fortune 500 companies. I've taken that knowledge and consulted to over 600 small businesses i've been privileged to also be featured in some pretty major publications like forbes inc i used to write for entrepreneur world news the u.s and world news report and hrd magazines there's a couple others that are out there too. And I focus in on crisis management and group-performing team through effectively managing the dynamics of a group. But a high-performing team is going to be directly linked to the strength of the leader. And so we focus on both. There you go.

William? So my background, a 26-year retired Navy SEAL. I was a sniper instructor. I have quite a few combat deployments. I have seven combat deployments, four to Iraq, three to Afghanistan, 10 total deployments. I've done missions that you'll never hear about or know anything about because of the sensitivity of them.

They had to be approved by the President of the United States. Wow. Pretty cool. Not sexy at all, but it sounds cool anyway and since my retirement I started I have started a CBD company called naked wear recovery I started doing business executive leadership coaching and I'm also a keynote speaker there you go congratulations and thank you for your service we really appreciate we've had a lot of great people men and women from

the military and huge respect in In fact, the leadership function of how our military works and teaches leadership is so extraordinary. And we've studied a lot of it. You ever thought about writing a book about some of your experiences there or what you can write about? I think I got to write about, get this one done. And then I actually have plans to write a book about my main keynote presentation, which is, you know, five secrets to help you think like a Navy SEAL. And the secret is you have to get naked. And if, again, if you go to five SEAL secrets.com, you'll learn more about what getting naked is all about. There you go. So now I have to think of David Goggins. We were talking before the show about David Goggins. He's one of the guys who wrote some books and I believe he was a Navy SEAL, but went when he was older or something I think or maybe I'm

thinking of I might be thinking one of the cabins we have in our show I know Brent Crozier was on a show captain Brent Crozier was on a show we've had a few people on so maybe I don't know it was somebody who's a Navy SEAL we had Navy SEALs on the show I I know we've had quite a few. But that Hell Week you guys do and the stories I always read about are just crazy. You know, I had a good time in Hell Week. I actually had fun. Yeah, there you go. You had fun.

I did. I had a great time during Hell Week. Wow. There you go. I mean, that's a, you know, people quit on Hell Week, man. They ring the bell. You know, it's interesting. People quit like day one before we even do anything. Really? the craziest thing i'm like you spent all this time and money and

effort to get here and then you quit before we even yeah before anything even starts it's super interesting on the psychological side of it yeah that is wild man give us some more details about the book is what's inside what are some of the tips and advice you're giving, different formats, et cetera? You want to take this? I'll take my part of it, and then you take your part of it. So on my part of it, I talk about leadership through the lens of a gunfight. And so, you know, originally I called it Five SEAL Secrets of Leadership. And, you know, I'll break them down really quickly.

So number one is multitask like a Navy SEAL. So when you're in a gunfight, there's only three things that matter. You need to be able to shoot, move, and communicate. And you can't do any one of those things effectively if you're trying to do the other thing. You can't shoot effectively if you're trying to communicate. You can't communicate effectively if you're trying to shoot. And so the bottom line is there's no such thing as multitasking. Step number two is leaders get no bullets. And I've gotten a lot of pushback on this.

But one of the things that I did as a senior enlisted leader in order to train my replacement, which is my job as a leader, is to train them how to lead in a gunfight. And oftentimes, you know, because they're Navy SEALs, what they want to do is they want to shoot. They want to put rounds down range. And that's not actually what leaders are supposed to be doing. And so I would let them, you know, do these practice gunfights. And eventually I would say, hey, you get no more bullets. And then they feel neutered. They feel inept on the battlefield battlefield and then they actually have to do what they're supposed to do look around read the battlefield look at their team look at the enemy look at the terrain and then make a decision and then execute it and then continue to move and so that's that's number two

number three is observe orient decide to act ooda loop which is a was a actual an air force term that we took and we use in combat. Number four is commander's intent. What is the end result that you're looking for? And number five is a decentralized command and control, which is basically you train your team on how to do something, and then you let them loose to go and execute the mission, and then you support them however they need to be supported. And that's really my big portion of the book.

Awesome, Sauce. The five tasks of, what were they again? The five? You know what were they again? The five? You know what? I'm still branding that. I'm still trying to figure it out. So it could be gunfight leadership. I'm thinking maybe it's gunfight leadership. I like this. At the OK Corral.

Gunfight leadership. That's actually really good. Yeah, this could be a great title for a book. Maybe we should use that one. Gunfight leadership. I think your podcast episode just became a marketing brainstorming session. That's what we do. I want a piece of that action. Send me an affiliate

check. Gunfight Leadership. I'm seeing the halls of a corporation and one is the CEO and the other end is the vice president and a board sitting there in the middle somewhere watching to see. And then we come in and we teach them how to clear rooms with airsoft guns and then you know turn that into a whole leadership experience you know i i know how to clear rooms without violence i just drink milk and about a

half an hour later so there you go that'll clear we had somebody on earlier we were talking about milk so it's carrying over from the other show there was a navy carrier called the uh they were joking that it was it was the moo carrier but it was called the cow pen the uss cow pen i remember that moo carrier do you really i remember that boat yeah yeah that was during my time we just had the we just had the author on for that brenda give us your some of your tits and tips and tidbits out in the book yeah really when it comes to building a high-performing team, it's not an overnight process. It's very much a transformational process. You know, leaders tend to change. They have to take on and do new things

that they've probably never done before. Employees have to take on the same kind of position. So really understanding what makes a high-performing team comes through experience. It's not anything that you can just. Yeah, I didn't freeze this time. Stoked. Yeah, we can't believe you're in it.

So talking about having a high-performing avatar. And a lot of people don't think about this. So we talked about marketing just a second ago and jokes, but a high performing avatar, like we know what our target market avatar is, but have we ever thought about actually sketching out and defining what it is that we want in an employee. And more often than not, people don't do that. But that's exactly what high performing leaders do. They really are intentional about bringing in the type of individuals that have like and similar core values. They believe in certain aspects. And so there's a lot of relativity. But at the same time, everybody is skilled at

doing something special that actually contributes to the whole. And that is actually really important. The other thing that we talk about too is like change is dynamic. How do you navigate change? And high performing teams navigate change much different than teams that are just average performers. And so we really kind of take a look at what are all the stages? How fast does it actually happen?

And really help leaders understand what they need to do in order to help everybody usher through that change? You know, high performing teams, they execute. They're not people that sit around and think is if we had thinkers, then SEAL teams would be a think tank, not a bunch of, you know, high level elite operators. I'm sure the jokes would be far more sophisticated if they were sitting around talking for a while but that's all good um you know and and did she just shame did she you know maybe seal what what i what i heard her say is i can hear all of my other special forces brothers being like oh they are a think tank because every navy seal out there writes a book yeah of course we do there because we're awesome yeah you guys are that's why i work with you guys yeah anyway but you know what at the end really what you when you think about

what you're doing in a high performing team you have to remember one really important thing is that hiring a high performing team is like dating. It really is. And it's one of those things that once you bring people in, then you have to nurture them all the way through to, you know, whatever the end of that life cycle is. And so it's not, you just, a lot of people will bring people in, they'll stick them in a job, start working them. And, but then there's no development after that. And so if you're going to have a positive, really operating team, you have to nurture the team and you have to give opportunity to develop people. But it's always going to start at hiring and choosing because that's really ultimately what dating is,

is choosing well. That's true. I run a lot of dating groups and I've dated all my life and that's really important. You know, I learned that with our companies, we, you know, we started with a good mindset and, you know, some of the Tom Peters things, like if you trust them really well, they'll do a really good job. Yeah. Tom Peters is great, but half his data made me rich and the other half got bankrupt to me because you just can't, you know, there's a lot of these leaders, they take successful business experiences and they try and unpack them. And a lot of these leaders they take successful business experiences they try and unpack them and a lot of times they don't get it right and you know like i think one of his things was about how the reason nuclear nuclear engineers that work in a nuclear plant you know nuclear

plant the reason they do so well and they're so highly trustable is because you know they're they're trusted with a lot of power. That's not really true. They just don't want to fucking die. That's a big consequence. Yeah, it is. It's kind of a motivating factor. They like to go home and see their wife and kids, too.

That's kind of a, although I don't know, for some it might be less than that. But it depends on the wife and kids and if they're teenagers. But no, so what we had was with my company was, you know, we started having problems and having problems, and we'd bring people in. We'd hire them off the first interview, and we'd have problems. We'd have these problem employees, and we'd be firing them faster, and we'd have different issues, people that were freaking psychotics. And you'd start calling their ex-employers. You're like, was he psychotic there? And they're like, yeah.

All sorts of behavior problems and bad hires and so for a long time we were just kind of what are we doing wrong and we realized that we just need to invest better in the hiring process so we started extending the hire process we started having two to three interviews sometimes as much as four and it was really funny because the more interviews you give people, the more relaxed they get. Like by the third or fourth interview, they're showing up in their underwear and some popcorn and shorts, and they're just kind of hanging out with you in a t-shirt and burping and stuff.

That's how I am right now. Yeah. If I wore underwear, I would totally be in my underwear right now. Yeah. We didn't want to know. Good thing I'm not standing right now. The old Navy Seal no underwear technique. I saw that coming. Anyway, I don't want to see that's, you know, we didn't want to know. Good thing I'm not standing right now. The old Navy Seal no underwear technique. I saw that coming.

Anyway, I don't want to see that coming, actually. P-M-I, Will. You guys must have had a lot of fun writing this book, eh? We did. We have fun. We're a lot of fun. You know, we perform as a high-performing team. You know, we have, seriously, it's gotten to the point where we know each other so well we're like family you know we really are we're a family of choice you know we've been there

for each other through some some tough times we've been through through we've had a lot of laughs one of my favorite things that i have ever seen will do we was actually in tampa it was after we spoke and we were at the restaurant and Will was teaching one of the participants' kids how to choke hold right there in the restaurant. How to murder somebody with two fingers. And then she did it to her dad. It was awesome.

Yeah, it was great. I forgot about that. So, you know, we have fun. You have to. Hey, Mr. Five-Year-Old, let me teach you how a navy seal kills someone and with two fingers about five seconds we first we break your there's a bunch on your dad right over there yeah two-finger death punch the navy seal two-finger they use this on bin laden yeah i'm sure as an eight-year-old kid, you'll use it properly. I'm sure nothing will go wrong. Kids terrorizing these.

We were trying to show that day, let me tell you. There you go. That was fun. There you go. So what we learned with our companies is by extending those interviews and trying to hire better, it made all the difference in the world. It totally washed people out. It was amazing how when we ran them through different people to interview. And then the other thing was teaching me and my interviewers to shut the hell up and let people talk.

Yeah. And if you just shut up and let people talk in an interview, they'll tell you all sorts of crazy stuff. Oh, yes. You just leave them hanging. And they'll tell you all sorts of stuff. They'll tell them themselves, really. Seriously. You just leave them hanging, and they'll tell you all sorts of stuff. They'll tell them themselves, really. Seriously, if your interview is the interviewer is talking more than 20%, it's not a strong interview.

It really isn't. That's what I used to teach my people. I'm like, if I ever heard them, yep, you pity happen and trying to sell the job, and I'd be like, I'd just go in and slap them silly pretty much. No, do that, folks. Violence is never the reason, unless you're a Navy SEAL, of course. The only reason. That's why we bring you guys on board.

The only answer. Yeah, there you go. Gunfight leadership. I love this title, man. It's a great ready. So when you're talking about building high-performance teams, what are the factors that, you know, when we say high-performance teams, what does that mean exactly?

Brenda? So high-performing, so Will and I in our book, we actually came up with our own perspective of what we believe high-performing teams are, and I'll let Will talk about what he views it as. Are you guys fighting through the book? Are you making your own versions of everything? We've never fought.

No, I mean like you're just like through the book, you have your version and his version? Yes. Is that how the format of the book works? Okay. Yep, absolutely. So Will's on the front half and I'm on the back half of it. Oh, okay.

But so when I look at a high-performing team, I'm looking at really looking at the gifts that everybody brings to the table. Everybody's got a unique gift. We all come with innate traits and how do we best utilize those? And are we using people to, you know, kind of plug and play into giving them an opportunity to exercise those strengths as best as possible? One of the other things that I wanted to definitely, because you started going, kind of going down that road, is the challenging personalities and actually bringing people in. There's actually a section in this book that I wrote about that there's no room for narcissists

on a high-performing team. It cannot function. No dark triad traits, damn it. I like dark triad traits. They're my favorite. I have them for breakfast. Mix them with the Oreos and the Skittles. A little bit of psychopathy, sociopathic nature. They taste great with milk. They taste great with milk. Yeah. Then that turns into

the HR version of Hell Week at that point. Like a whole other description of Hell Week. HR wants to see you now sir that's pretty much every week here on the show in in in what was your version william high performing team is basically a team that's working together in unison to accomplish a mission whatever that mission is doesn't matter what the mission is everyone has a different skill skillset and everyone uses those skillsets. However, everyone on the team should be trained in one another's skillset. So for example, in the SEAL teams, I'm a sniper. But that doesn't mean that I can't breach doors. I carry slap charges on my body. So if I come up

to a door and we're clearing a building and it's locked, I don't need to call a breacher to come up and open the door for me. I have my own skeleton key, which is in my little leg pouch on my leg. I pull that thing out. I let everyone know that I'm going to blow the door, pop the firing pin, and four seconds later, the door blows. Me and my buddy go in, and we unlock the door, and we take care of business. I like how you call it a skeleton key.

I'm not deeply trained to be a breacher. I know how to calculate time, fuse, and things like that, but that's not my main skill set. My main skill set is actually in a leadership position, is being a leader, leading on the battlefield, or being a sniper, or things like that. But that doesn't mean that I can't get on the radio and make calls. I can still drop bombs if I need to drop bombs. There are guys that have very specific qualifications for that. But that doesn't mean that I can't get on the radio and make calls. I can't, I can still drop bombs if I need to drop bombs. There are guys that have very specific qualifications for that, but I'm also trained in some of those things because you know, that whole two is one, one is none scenario. It, it, one is a single point of failure. One is the number, like the worst number you can have in your business. You should have redundancy for everything. It doesn't

have, not everyone doesn't have to be a subject matter expert in everything, but everyone needs to have the ability to, you know, we called it pickup basketball. When I would come in and it doesn't matter if I go left or right, I know if you're coming behind me, you're going to cover my back. I know that if, you know, we're coming in and we're clearing something out, we're always looking for a job. We're always looking to solve the problem. It doesn't matter who it is or who's coming in and who's doing what.

And that's how a high performing team works. We all have the same mission. We're always looking to solve the problem. It doesn't matter who it is or who's coming in and who's doing what. And that's how a high-performing team works. We all have the same mission. We're all working in the same direction. We're all looking for what needs to be done next to make the job happen and get it done more quickly and more effectively. Any final thoughts, Brenda, there on what he said? Yeah. You know, something about high-performing teams is that we both have led high-performing teams, and we've existed in them as well. And there's just something about being in a high-performing team and leading one that is incredibly rewarding.

Seriously, it's an opportunity for you to look back at your own career, and next thing you know, you're like, that is some of the best time that I have had. Because you're just winning. You're accomplishing. I mean, we have different challenges along the way, you know, and the challenges are more unique and they tend to sometimes also be a little bit more high, but you know, that's the thrill of being on a high performing team is, okay, so here's the next peak, let's get after it. And everyone loves that sort of stuff in being on those teams. So let's move from the book to talk about what you guys do on your website, what sort of services

you offer, how people are on board with you. Let's dig into that. Absolutely. Actually, so we are in the process of now talking to people who want to bring us in and work with us within their organization to help them scale and build and grow and make more revenue, right? That's what business is all about. And it's awesome that we get to see these shifts starting to take place. Anybody wants to go ahead and communicate with us about that, we are available at missionreadyleadership.com. And how can they onboard? I mean, is there certain clients you're looking for as their minimum sort of net worth or size of company etc etc i'm gonna let you tackle that one will you you know

we're looking for teams we're looking for companies that want to scale we want companies that want to make more money we will help you make more money. We will help you scale. We'll help you do the things that you need to do based in improving leadership, based in helping your team become a high-performing team. I like to say, I like to help leaders lead their team like it's a SEAL team, and I like to help turn employees into team members. Because an employee is just there to check in and check out, punch a time clock and do their time. A team member is there to accomplish the mission. And so we're going to help you

turn your employees into team members and help your leaders lead like they're leading a SEAL team. And that will help you create more money, more impact, scale, all those good things. Okay. So give us your dot coms as we go out so people can find you on the interwebs.

Again, you can find me at yobrenda.com. If you really want to be bold, then you can also find me at my full website, which is brendaneckbottle.com. You can find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, brendaneckbottle.com, TikTok, or you can just do it simple

by finding me at hashtag dear Brenda. There you go. Best way to reach out to me is 5sealsecrets.com, the number five seal, S-E-A-L, like Navy SEAL, 5sealsecrets.com. And again, the secret is to get naked. If you want to know what get naked is all about, go fill out the form and I'll email it to you. And then if you want to work with me individually speaking, we've got, again, we've got, you can reply to those emails to get ahold of me, or again, going back to missionreadyleadership.com to hire both of us to come in and speak and help build your team into a high performing team. Thank you both for coming on. We really appreciate it. Yes, sir. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. And thanks to Ronitz for tuning in. Order up the book where refined books are sold called Mission Ready,

Building High-Performance Teams from the Battlefield to the Boardroom. Some of you guys have boardrooms that are like battlefields. There's a lot of, what was that term that we were using? Gunfight leadership. Gunfight leadership. I know that. Boardrooms. I know I got it.

It can maybe help. Yeah. I have this image of a boardroom, you know, top some sort of New York skyline view and everyone's behind walls and shooting each other behind chairs and cross-shooting and probably...

Maybe I need to go invest in some Nerf guns and then bring them in with some... Go ahead and work it out. Yeah, it'd be awesome. Thanks for going on the show, guys. Thanks for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss,

LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, Chris Foss, one of the TikTokity on those crazy places on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe.

We'll see you.