The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Off the Deep End: Jerry and Becki Falwell and the Collapse of an Evangelical Dynasty by Giancarlo Granda, Mark Ebner

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Off the Deep End: Jerry and Becki Falwell and the Collapse of an Evangelical Dynasty by Giancarlo Granda, Mark Ebner Giancarlo Granda finally reveals the truth about his relationship with Becki Falwell and her husband Jerry Falwell Jr., and the hidden world of political influence, high finance, and criminal intrigue. Jerry Falwell Jr. is a prominent figure in the evangelical world whose support for presidential candidate Donald J. Trump helped secure Trump's Republican nomination in 2016. He captured headlines when it was revealed that he and his wife Becki had participated in a years-long bizarre sexual relationship with a pool attendant they met at the Fountainbleu Hotel in Miami Beach. As Falwell Jr. began to deny this relationship, even more damaging news came out, ultimately forcing him to resign as president of Liberty University, which many consider to be the largest evangelical Christian university in the world. Giancarlo Granda is now ready to share the story of his years on an "only in America" rollercoaster ride through the monied corridors of power and profound hypocrisy.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. The Chris Voss Show or show.com. Depends where I am in my manhood from any given day of the year. It's either up or down.

You can tell how much testosterone is going on. It's just whether it's the Chris Voss Show or the Chris Voss Show. Anyway, guys, we have an amazing New York Times bestselling author and award-winning investigative journalist, Mark Ebner, is on the show with us today. We're going to be talking about the line boy explosive story that he has written about, and the book comes out today, so we'll get to that here in a second. In the meantime, I want you to sit down with your friends and families, hold their hands, look carefully, lovingly into their eyes, and say, have you subscribed to the

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everywhere on the interwebs. In fact, we're starting to use that TikTok thing. You can find Chris Foss one over there and Chris Foss on the TikTok. So we're trying to be cool, trying to join the cool kids club.

So help support us over there because maybe we'll be cool someday. I don't know. I don't know, 13 years. Maybe we'll finally get around to it. So we have Mark Ebner on the show with us today. He is the author of the amazing book that's hot off the presses today.

I've got a copy right here. It is still steamy in my hands, folks. I burnt my hands actually picking it up because I picked it up a little too soon. But it's cooled down, so enough where we can talk about it today. The book is entitled, Off the Deep End, Jerry and Becky Falwell and the Collapse of an Evangelical Dynasty. We have one of the authors on with us with the show. The book involves a gentleman that we'll be talking about today. We didn't get a chance to have him, but John Carlo Granda is the author of the book, and he wrote the book with co-author Mark Ebner, who's on the show with us today.

I hopefully got his name correct. That's kind of a unique name there. But Mark Ebner is the New York Times bestselling author, award-winning investigative journalist. He's covered all aspects of celebrity and crime culture for Spy, Rolling Stone, Maxim, Details, Los Angeles Premiere, Salon, Spin, Raider. There's just so many names. TheDailyBeast.com. Of course, we love Gawker.com. Remember those folks. BoingBoing.net and the New York Times. Among national, international, and internet publications.

He's repeatedly positioned himself in harm's way. Does that include this show? Conducting dozens of investigations into subjects such as Scientology, Pitbull fighting in south central Los Angeles. Was that my neighborhood of Locker's? The Ku Klux Klan in Texas, saloon stockers, drug dealers, missing porn stars, sports groupies, mobsters, college suicides, and hepatitis C in Hollywood,

which does that bring him here today? The hepatitis C part? Welcome to the show, Mark. How are you? I'm doing great, and I'm glad to be part of the hottest podcast in the universe. And, you know, I do have to say, you just listed a bunch of credits of mine. Are you in some way trying to insinuate that you can't hold down a job? I don't know. I mean, that sounds like something that you and your job counselor from high school should work out. But it's an amazing bio. And the reason I wanted to read it is to let you know this is a safe space.

Like, I'm not sure what you're doing here because you've been in some crazy places and, of course, written about them. How many books do you have, by the way, if you don't mind me? Let's say nonfiction realm. This would, off the deep end, would be my 10th, including two titles that I essentially contributed to as a ghost. Other than that, having my name on the book is my currency. It's my next job. But on this one, we're looking at the principal author being, yes, Giancarlo Granda. and i can say right off the bat that he proved to be a fine young man and a reliable narrative narrator yeah with receipts yeah brought them there you go i mean i think becky would say he was a fine young man at one point in his career yeah now she's

accusing him of taking money from the Lincoln Project. And, you know, before we came on, we were talking about Darvo. And I attack. Help me out, Chris. We did it the first time. Did I attack Darvo? Yeah. The first quarter of the victim.

Yes. Area. Yeah. Let's just talk. Let's talk over each other for the rest of the hour. No, we won't do that. I hate that. Just buy the goddamn book.

There it is. Buy the damn book already. But no, this will be a really insightful interview. Give me your dot coms or wherever you want people to find you on the interwebs to get to know you better. Well, look, I'm on Twitter at MarkEbner59, Facebook, Instagram. I have a placeholder website, www.hollywoodinterrupted.com, that I pretty much stole from Andrew Breitbart, the late, great Andrew Breitbart. When we wrote the book, New York Times bestseller, Hollywood Interrupted,

I swiped the domain and I kept it as a placeholder site for some of my work. Other than that, Amazon.com is your friend in any major bookstore, any independent bookstore, even the smallest bookstore. There you go. Fine books are sold. Yeah. That's what I say on the show. We also say, you know, stay out of those alleyway bookstores. You might need a tetanus shot or you might get mugged.

So welcome to the show. Congratulations on the new book. What motivated you to want to get involved and write this book? A guy named Billy Corbin. Billy, if you don't recognize the name, he's a documentary filmmaker out of Miami who has for years been hipping me to what projects he's working on. In this case, it is a Hulu documentary set to premiere on November 1st. Perfect sandwich for the book release being today. I participated in this documentary. It's god forbid and i can't hype him enough because he was the man who

introduced me to john carlo granda the perfect sandwich for a story about a sandwich so there you go sorry you said you set up the jokes i have to take them down i'm sorry it's like it's we call it infotainment on just as long as you aim that whatever sandwich you're alluding to, remember, Jerry Falwell Jr. was not part of that sandwich. He was the cuck in the corner videotaping the whole thing. As evidence. I've had friends that that's happened to. Sometimes they didn't know that the husband was in the closet. So let's get into the book.

Give us an overview of the book for those of the people out in the world who don't read and keep up on the news the real idiots no i'm just sure over that's a nice way of saying you haven't read my book yet i hope that's well no i i want to hear it from you though all right john carlo granda proud son of Cuban and Mexican immigrants from a conservative family in Miami. He was just a good looking kid. Today, he reminds me of a Kennedy. I only wish you had him on here today, maybe one day in the future. But this kid was born in Miami, which is in the state of Florida, which for me is the, how can I describe it? The state that just keeps on giving in terms of crime stories. He was, he came, he was a product of the internet. He was a gaming addict and he has no problem with me sharing that about him. And he kind of folded into himself early on and became addicted to online gaming.

When he realized that he had to kind of find his way out of this addiction, he started venturing out into the world. He worked in retail. And then he got the party down job of a lifetime, which was to be a pool attendant at the renowned Fountain Blue Hotel in South Beach. And, you know, when I first spoke to him, this is what I, the two things I said after Billy Corbin introduced us. I said, wow, Giancarlo, the Falwells picked the wrong pool boy to fuck with if what you're telling me is true. Now it's up to me to go and vet it out, right? But second of all, I said, my God, you've got the best job for a 20-year-old

to be a pool attendant. Oh, yeah, you got babes around you all the time. So he's working there one day, and he feels... So you got babes around you all the time? Yeah. You broke up, so... Yeah. Yeah, and thanks for the filler there.

You know, it wasn't only that. This is a 20-year-old kid who was making maybe $100 a week in retail who ended up poolside at the Fountain Blue pocketing like $500 a day in tips. You know, this is a place where Floyd Mayweather hung out. This is where some of the most beautiful models in the world hung out by the pool there. And this is where, you know, as an entrepreneur, you'll appreciate this is where a lot of deals went down. And this kid being as motivated and ambitious as he was, kind of had his ear to the ground underneath the hot sunlight in Miami Beach.

And that ear and the whole sensory effect one day, he felt a woman's eyes bearing down on him. He looked over his shoulder and there's this woman peering seductively over her sunglasses, right? Just bird dogging him, you know, and he smiles and he moves on. Next thing you know, she's taking photographs of him. My guess, found her prey and now she was ready to stalk it. So she padded the side of her day bed, $150 a day at the fountain blue. And anyone on a woman more or closer to his age. And she was like, yeah, but the young girls, they don't know what they're doing. Dot, dot, dot. Would you like to come up to my room?

Now, what's the response? Again, I say to you, 20-year-old good-looking kid in some cougar, you know, who he doesn't even know of some sort of means, is inviting him up to their suite in the Tresor Tower at the Fountain Blue. The reaction is, fuck yeah. Yeah. You know, this is my Mrs. Robinson moment, if you will. You know, so he's like ready to go. And she says, but there's just one thing my husband likes to watch. And he's like, what?

Weird. Okay. So he leaves the hotel. You know, he finishes his shift. Becky Falwell rings him from a block number. And anti-climax, she says, listen, we want you to come to, we've got room at the Days Inn down the street. Kind of a no-tell motel situation going on there,

but the Days Inn on South Beach was formidable for such an adventure. And he's like, whoa, this is really happening. He calls up his sister, Lillia, a great woman. She's also in the documentary and she's fantastic. She's like, ah, go for it. You know,

just don't get your head staped in by some serial killer. And so he's on his way to meet Becky Fallon. Well, he needs her in the lobby. She's got booze with her to lubricate this scenario. They calm their nerves downstairs. He goes upstairs. And, you know, long story short, you know, he's railing Jerry Falwell's wife with Jerry in the corner.

The cuck in the corner, as John Carlo liked to describe him. And by the way, I keep hearing the word cuck. This has nothing to do with kink shaming. I promise you. Both Giancarlo and I are well beyond that. But do you remember when the conservative or I should say the hard right insult, you know, to liberals would be you're either a snowflake or a c well guess what guess what jerry falwell jr the guy who literally threw the evangelical vote to donald trump look who's cucking now motherfucker that's you there you go and you said it i'm not even i'm not even speaking to you anymore. I'm talking directly to Jerry Falwell.

In fact, I only wish I could share a split screen on some major news show to call him a cup to his face. Wouldn't that be fun? I'd pay to see that. Yeah, Giancarlo Granda. Yeah, Giancarlo Granda. I got to say, I got to admit, I may have some experience in my 63 years on this planet, but that kid is infinitely smarter than I am. Through all of this, through all the harassment and everything they did to try and essentially disappear this kid, not only is he still with us, but somehow he managed to come up from Miami-Dade Junior College, where he was taking courses in accounting, not cuck theory,

at the time. He managed to, in the last decade, seven years of which he was entwined inextricably in this, you know, sordid situation with the Falwells. He has since managed to get a master's degree in real estate development and financing from Georgetown University. And I'm proud to call him a friend and a co-author. There you go. There you go. And he has no idea what he's getting into. You know, this happens, this happens a lot-author. There you go. There you go. And he has no idea what he's getting into.

You know, this happens. This happens a lot. Actually, most people don't realize how much it happens. I've had friends that have had a woman pick them up at the bar. She's clearly kind of an older kind of cougar, whatever. And they go home. Sometimes the husband's there. Sometimes the husband's hiding in the closet. Ivy, I knew of a couple that they had cameras in the front living room and the guy was up in, you. Ivy, I knew of a couple that they had cameras in the front living room and the guy was up in, you know, some broadcast room filming and watching. And, you know, it's a whole game that sometimes the guy picks out the guy and he has no idea who these people are. Hi, Voxers, Voss here with a little station break. Hope you're enjoying the

show so far. We'll resume here in a second. I'd like to invite you to come to my coaching, speaking, and training courses website. You can also see our new podcast over there at chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com. Over there, you can find all the different stuff that we do for speaking engagements if you'd like to hire me, training courses that we offer and coaching for leadership, management, entrepreneurism, podcasting, corporate stuff. With over 35 years of experience in business and running companies as CEO, I think I can offer a wonderful breadth of information and knowledge to you or anyone that you want to invite me to for your company.

Thanks for tuning in. We certainly appreciate you listening to the show. And be sure to check out chrisfossleadershipinstitute.com. Now back to the show. And let's talk about who these people are because we wanted the audience to know who doesn't know who the Falwells are.

Jerry Falwell. Yeah. Jerry Falwell. Not the sort of people you think would be swinging. Jerry Falwell Sr. is the heir apparent to Jerry Falwell. We're both old enough to remember that huckster from the moral majority and the original founder of Liberty University, which I got to say, it's a beautiful campus in Lynchburg, Virginia. I toured there. I sat and waited for Jerry and Becky to have a sit down with me, to which Jerry

suggested that Giancarlo would be sitting in the federal prison and I could very well be abetting him. I only wish I had the sound file handy. I'll slip it to you on the backside of this, but it's unbelievable that this guy thought he could, you know, cow me by threatening me right off the bat. I said, I'll do you one better. I'm coming to Lynchburg. I'm going to camp out down there, brother. And you and your wife are welcome to sit down with me anytime. Of course, they demur.

You know what I'm saying? These people are cowards. But Jerry Falwell inherited Liberty University. And in the, I believe it was like 15 years as president, to his credit, he increased a near-bankrupt evangelical university's endowment from like near bankruptcy to billions of dollars. How did he do that? You know how Ponzi works, Chris? Oh, I do. I've seen NFT. Well, in education, as we all know from Trump University, the way it works is set up an online component, make your money from there by the

Sturges who think they're going to get an education online and then pour all the money back into the university and grift whatever you can off the top in terms of cash, perks, and whatever else. So here he is. This guy, this stumble-bum drunk cuck, finds himself the head of the Evangelical University, and he's got a wife who just can't seem to be satisfied, the first lady of Liberty University. But what did he manage to do? What kind of damage occurred? Well, it can look to the election. All right. And the election I'm talking about is the one of that former guy, Donald Trump. What he did was he threw the whole university's 501c3 status into jeopardy by actually endorsing Donald Trump.

In turn, that rallied the evangelical vote, the radicalized evangelical vote. And, you know, at the same time, Liberty University was becoming a staging ground for radical Christo fascists, if you will. You know, Trump got the votes, right? Yeah. And, you know, that's the kind of power this guy is who. And it's kind of ironic because, you know, at the end of the day, he's just like Trump, a failed businessman, to the extent that I can't regard him as anything less than a failure. There you go. Now, Becky was his childhood sweetheart.

They got married early. They stayed married. And they've been bird-dogging potential victims ever since. Wow. You know, I think we're hopping around because people need to buy the book and really get into the details. But, you know, I don't fully know about the university, but I do know the irony of it all is they're ultra-religious.

You know, they follow the Bible and blah, blah, blah, and, you know, all that sort of stuff. And I believe you can't even drink on the campus or swear or something. Is that correct? Do I have that right? Yes. Yes. Good call. That's actually a code of behavior that's strictly enforced there, and it's called the Liberty Way. Well, after all this fallout, if you go to the Liberty website,

it's behind a firewall. They're so embarrassed by it. Wow. But he was doing all the things, creating a culture, you know, from, you know, from his desk all the way to the football field. And, you know, Liberty's got a pretty good D1 team, I must say. But, you know, I guess I can put it this way. You know, this book started with sex and ended up with sex crimes many of them falling at the feet of last count 22 jane does who are claiming that they were sexually assaulted at liberty university and i've talked to a dozen of them i'm jumping ahead but that's the kind of

culture you see what happens is let's say you say you're a young woman and you're assaulted at Liberty University. Where do you go? Well, you go to a university's hand because you danced too close or had a beer, all of a sudden, you're screwed. Not the perpetrator, you know, not the rapist. It's like by admitting to any of those things, you're going to be fine if not thrown out of Liberty University. So this is the kind of thing these Christians, you know, this is what they hide behind the Liberty Way. What would Jesus do? Jerry Falwell Jr.'s brother is Jonathan Falwell. He's the chief campus pastor and he's a megachurch pastor at the adjoining Thomas Road Baptist Church. And through all of this, the pastor has been absolutely silent on the atrocities that have gone down right under his nose. And beyond that, you know, Jerry Falwell can't keep his story straight. You know, he wants to deny that he was there when Giancarlo was railing his wife.

You know, nice try. But and also very it's fascinating that you're willing to throw your wife under the bus at any given opportunity. But I have no sympathy for her because the only word that comes to mind when I think of Becky Falwell is sociopath. So, you know, between the two of them, I could give a shit. But then at the same time, the hypocrisy is what stands out in all of this. And you can read all about it and off the deep end. That's for sure.

What did they do? Yeah. What did they do to John Carla? Well, they groomed him. They invited him into their world at Liberty. They introduced him to Donald Trump. He got his copy of Art of the Deal signed by Donald Trump at a convocation at Liberty University as he was wrapping up for the election. The one saving grace in all of this, when we called the book off the deep end, there's an allegory there to pool, pool boy or whatever else. I mean, to call Giancarlo Granda a pool boy would be a misnomer because he wrote this book. manned up and, you know, was managed to swallow uncomfortable truths about himself and share them

with the world at his own peril. But at the same time, you know, this is a guy who's capable of empathy, compassion and, you know, things that the Falwells aren't, frankly, aren't. And one of those is when it came to light that Becky was having this affair, her response to the media, Becky Falwell's response was, well, my husband forgave me and Jesus says forgiveness is everything and blah, blah, blah. Wait a minute. Hold up, Becky. Forgiveness ain't the answer. How about a little remorse? How about a little apology for everything you did to this young man? You stalked him. You harassed him. You committed unspoken blackmail by creating videotapes of all your adventures. God is in the way. Every time he had tried to have a normal relationship with a woman of his own age, they sabotaged that. Top Dell.

You know, I don't know how they didn't destroy him, but the proof is in the book. Well, I'm glad he finally gets his day in court in the public sphere and gets to really speak out. I know he's done several different articles and interviews, but having his book out where he can finally set you'll see, I know it's the perfect storm of publicity, but beyond that, both the book and the documentary line up. So take that as well. When you try and darbo anyone involved in these projects, it won't work. Yep. There's a predatory thing to grooming and and i know how this works because i've been friends with sometimes with people that have either gotten sucked up into

these things or run these gambits and there is a predatory thing they go out and they pick the person the husband a wife or the husband usually picks the person and and then there's a whole set up and and this thing and yeah the the victim is usually unsuspecting, has no idea, thinks it's maybe a normal tris between him, you know, whoever. But for God's sake, Chris, they gave they literally invited him into his world. And, you know, it started to look good on paper. They are in a multimillion dollar multi-use property in South. They went into business with them. They had them on campus. They invited him into his family. But as far as the sex goes, they would not let him get out of that. And, you know, that just goes to show what kind

of people we're dealing with here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is like a Hollywood story, which is great that it's being documented by your book in the movie. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding, we're trying to have Michael Cohen on the show too. My understanding is the quid pro quo for Jerry Falwell endorsing Trump, he's going to be the first real big person to endorse Trump, the first evangelical to endorse Trump. The quid pro quo was they wanted Michael Cohen to get the photos of this event with this young gentleman. Is that correct? Do I have that right? I mean, listen, I don't want to get into Michael Cohen too much, not because I'm scared of him.

In fact, he was one of the first people I contacted. I said, Giancarlo, you know, going under the your enemy, his enemy is your friend type thing. Why don't I try and get a sit down with Michael Cohen? You know, and he's like, good luck with that. And I texted Michael Cohen and he was, it was like radioactive to him. I sent a photo of myself holding up his book, Disloyal. And I said, you know, we got to talk. And he goes, Falwell's, I ain't touching that. When the fact is, right up until he was going to jail three days before he had dinner with the Falwells. So we can say we assume that he was on the Falwell dime right up until he walked into prison to write his book, which, by the way, when he addresses the Falwells and Giancarlo, he you know, they don't have fact checkers in prison. Let's just put it that way. And to the point, Giancarlo and I have dedicated an entire chapter in this book to Michael Cohen.

And spoiler alert, should I? Go ahead. Go ahead. It's your tease out. Giancarlo's not the fucking pool boy. The real pool boy is Michael Cohen, to which we say, go get your fucking shine box. Go get it. And read his book, Disloyal, the mob kid.

I was working at the El Caribe, and I was lighting cigars for all the mobsters there, and I was picking up their trash. You're the fucking cool boy, bitch. That's it, Michael Cohen. Yeah, so he's got his own chapter in the book, if we can move off Michael Cohen for a minute. All right. But the interesting thing about this is this is some people in looking at history

could say that I believe that the endorsement from Falwell came right before or after the Hollywood tape of him saying, you know, I touched... Long before. And, you know, to his credit, Michael Cohen set the table for that. Yeah. You know, I mean, listen, Liberty and, you know, they were all everybody was all on board to sort of endorse what's that guy's name? Cancun Ted Cruz at the time. He was their man. Something happened. Michael Cohen inserted himself, you know, came up to Liberty on a number of occasions with Trump and he sealed that deal. Now, you know, this is a guy who plays one one side, you know, both sides against the middle, you know. So, you know, whatever he did to get that Norseman, I can I can assure you that Jerry Falwell probably shit his pants, you know, as to what Michael Cohen would do if he didn't. But an odd thing happened on the way to the election. These people became friends, the Falwells and Michael Cohen, thick as thieves.

And as you somewhat say, looking at history, that if it had been for the Falwell endorsement, if it had been for him kind of leading the embrace of the evangelical community, Trump might not have been president and the last six years might have been very different. Yeah. Right. And to bring it back to the book, imagine what might have happened to a kid like Giancarlo Granda being brought into that world, meeting Trump, flying on the private jet, you know, getting involved in a huge real estate deal with the Falwells, being, you know, being shown a world that he had no clue about. You know, imagine what could have happened to Giancarlo Granda.

You can trace what could have happened all the way to the steps of the Capitol steps on January 6th, because I promise you this, you know, Liberty University ain't strong on academics, but they are pretty well good at radicalizing, you know, innocent Christian people. So, you know, this is not about me versus the Christians, not at all. In fact, I have a real soft spot for the true believers. You know, they don't bother me. You know, I sat down and talked ad infinitum with a woman who lost her job at Liberty, Karen Swallow Pryor, unfortunate name. Oh, she's going to hate me if she sees this but karen swallow prior was an actual academic at at at liberty and she's you know virulently anti-abortion

but i'm like you know what that's you but we can have a conversation. And by the time we finished our conversations, believe me, when I say her and Mary Beth Baggett, Dr. Baggett, you know, true believers themselves, ended up on Team Giancarlo, and I'm happy to have them on board. Yeah. I mean, it's a Hollywood story. I mean, you couldn't make this stuff up. You know, what's those things, stranger than fiction or whatever, reality stranger than fiction? And, you know, then his story, Jerry Falwell, be removed from his peak. And I think now he's still suing the university or they were involved in a lawsuit. Yeah, I think if you want dollar signs, I think they paid him out like $10 million.

I could be wrong. He's probably suing for up to $150 million or something like that. But the fact is, you know, he instigated so many Title IX investigations and Liberty Cley Act violations. You know, your listeners can look all that up and see that, you know, in my estimation, having been there and researched, you know, a big part of my job was, you know, I get this fantastic quote-unquote pool boy story. Now, what do I do with it? I got to vet it. Giancarlo, did you bring receipts oh i sure did oh no i don't want to see that video of becky fingers oh i can't i can't do it not one more time but i had to because it was a piece of evidence disproving anything that they said to try and you know render john carlo you know you know to try and say he was a liar.

Because he's not. Because he's got me checking his facts and doing the diligence. And we did as much. So I think you mentioned that Jerry was doing the filming in the corner. Yeah. And so there's film of this. Is this film gotten out? Has it ever gotten out?

Is it going to be in a documentary? Is it going to end up on Pornhub? All right. I gave you a spoiler from the book. I'll give you one from, God forbid, the documentary. With the nasty bits blurred out, obviously, you will see the videotape in question. And that happened four months after in some desperate attempt to save face in all this. Becky Falwell went on record to say that Giancarlo had sexually assaulted her the last time they had sex. OK, now this is on the record for Vanity Fair.

I'm not going to mention the author's name. I've worked with him before, and I just can't believe he let that ride. And you can imagine that Giancarlo's reading this, and here he is being Darvod, right? She says that, you know, the sex was unwanted the last time they had sex. Well, that's interesting because four months later, she's sending them sex videos and doing sexy FaceTimes with them. Not only that, but if this was ever like, all right, first of all, if it was me that was accused of raping her, I'd sue her ass for defamation for every hundreds of millions of dollars he thinks thinks he's going to suck out liberty.

Giancarlo, I don't know. Is he taking the high road? No. The New Yorker did that for him because another journalist there, you know, in a completely different interview after they had made up that lie for Vanity Fair, she said, so what about that accusation on the record by my word jerry falwell said yeah we just made that up to try and get the book killed okay so this is the book that the falwells do not want want you to read where it's it's it's better than any hollywood writer could come up with it's just crazy the turns and twists and everything else well god damn it get me some back end on this i mean you know i mean

what kind of well i mean the guys who work that out hey man we won't get into the miniature of my book deal but you see there's probably yeah there you go. There you go. Harper Collins, William Morrow. You're buying drinks then. That's right. Where are you based? In Utah right now. Visiting Utah. But normally, I'll say.

Where are we going to go? If we're buying, I got to go find where the most expensive drinks are in town. I'll see you at Sundance. There used to be a festival right there. There you go. Sundance, yeah. Yeah, looking at Harvey Weinstein back in his heyday saying this guy's a pig but that's all we got right now and he's in right now movies i know

we're learning some more so mark it's been wonderful to have you on everyone should check out the book order it up you know i i do a joke on all my married buddies when we travel and we're out of town doing events and stuff and i go how's your wife is the pool boy over the house now that you're gone and my my boy my husband's my husband friends will always say to me chris we don't have a pool and i go yeah that's the problem she has a pool boy and you don't have a pool right well let me just say this if if pool boy is the misnomer people choose to use have at it but believe the pool boy seriously and second and chris let me ask you when you were 20 years old what was your job what did you do uh what was i was i started my first company i was 18 ah son of a gun don't i would i loved cougars and i'm still i'm still a who likes, if you offer me free stuff and you're hot, we're in.

Yeah, but the point is, is most people are working at Chick-fil-A, Cracker Barrel, McDonald's. How about if I called you Mr. Chick-fil-A when you were 32 years old and just got your master's degree? I can tell, Chris, you wouldn't care. care but understand that you know john carlo grande is deeper and much more thoughtful than any pool boy i've ever met and i encourage everyone to read the book thank you he gets the royalties now from the book so he's got he's got some cash hell yeah there you go well over the book guys mark tell us where to find you on the interwebs so we get to know you better. Go ahead and find me at www.hollywoodinterrupted.com, a site that is so named in honor of my late co-author of the New York Times bestseller, Hollywood Interrupted. It's kind of a placeholder site. I throw up some of my work there. Otherwise, I'm on Twitter, MarkEbner59.

Those fuckers still haven't given me the blue check, and I don't understand that. And Instagram and Facebook, and you can email me direct at MarkEbner59 at gmail.com. Chris, thanks a lot. Thank you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it, Mark. Sure do. You can probably talk to Elon Musk in a couple weeks when he owns that saying that he bought for 10 times the price i will bet money chris i will bet money we'll be doing this again let's do it again we love that we have a million authors that can they come back i we've got some

of them been on five times now i have to give them one of those silent live robes so please come back go with the one in one in a million there you go We'll get you a pool boy robe. No, I'm just kidding. With a Speedo. You have to come on with the Speedo. Mark, it's been wonderful and entertaining to have you on the show. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Take care.

There you go. Thanks, Amonis, for tuning in. Order up the book wherever fine books are sold. Remember, stay at those alleyway bookstores. Off the deep end. You definitely want to read this book. Off the deep end. Jerry and Becky Falwell and the Collapse of the Evangelical Dynasty. It's available today, October 21st. source off the deep end you definitely want to read this book off the deep end jerry and becky

fall in the collapse of the evangelical dynasty it's available today october 25th 2022 so order it up wherever fine books are sold thanks for tuning in go to goodreads.com for just christmas youtube.com for just christmas linkedin.com for just christmas see all of our new groups 130 000 group over there and this will will be on the LinkedIn newsletter as well. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time. There we go.

That was a lot of fun, Mark.