The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – On the Origin of Artificial Species by David R. Wood

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

On the Origin of Artificial Species by David R. Wood Rsgfederal.com Charles Darwin's natural theory of evolution is one of the greatest ideas in history. His theory enabled mankind to partially perceive the patterns in nature. However, the greater pattern has remained undiscovered until now. With the decoding of ancient Greek mythology and philosophy, the pattern of evolution has been fully revealed. In his book On the Origins of Artificial Species, David R. Wood has completed the work begun by the ancient Greeks and progressed by the family Darwin. He has discovered the pattern of evolution - both natural and artificial. In so doing, David has produced scientific breakthroughs in the fields of evolution, neuroscience, philosophy, history, politics, business, warfare, and technology. This includes clarifying and defining what the emergence of artificial intelligence means in evolutionary terms. These scientific breakthroughs allow humanity to understand our present and predict our future. They enable the framing of a clear choice for the future of artificial intelligence. The wrong choice will lead to our extinction. The right choice will take us to the stars. The book On the Origin of Artificial Species contains the following key discoveries: · Scientifically define the existential threat and incredible opportunity of artificial intelligence · Discover the theory of artificial evolution by means of artificial selection · Decode ancient Greek philosophy and myth lost for millennia · Produce new insights into natural evolutionary science · Reframe the Digital Age in evolutionary terms · Discover the scientific theory of imagination David R. Wood is the founder and CEO of RSG Federal, a small business IT consulting company. He possesses over twenty-five years of leadership and management experience working in the military, financial industry, academia, and federal government. As an ITIL Master, he is acknowledged in the field of IT service management as a thought leader for the Digital Age. In addition, David is a former U.S. Army National Guard enlisted soldier and commissioned officer branch qualified infantry and signal.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show. As always, when the Iron Lady sings, that makes it official.

And we're officially live on the Chris Voss Show. Thanks to my audience for tuning in. You know, for 15 years, we've been bringing you the smartest people, the CEOs, the billionaires, the White House, presidential advisors, governors, Congress members, you name it, U.S. ambassadors, astronauts, Pulitzer Prize winners, the most brilliant people. They write the books. They spend tens of thousands of hours doing their research sometimes a lifetime collecting their

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go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrissfoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrissfoss, chrissfoss1 on the tickety-tockety, and chrisfossfacebook.com. We have another amazing gentleman and author on the show. He's the author of the newest book that has come out, I'm sorry, let me hit that, On the Origin of Artificial Species. It came out November 3rd, 2023. David R. Wood joins us on the show,

and he'll be talking about his latest book and his journey through life. He is the founder and CEO of RSG Federal. He possesses over 20 years of professional experience supporting U.S. government agencies, including all DOD branches, the Pentagon, USCG, and HHS. Utilizing a versatile skill set, he consistently delivers breakthrough results in support of enterprise transformation efforts. This includes leading the design, tailoring and implementation of industry best practice frameworks and to uniquely suit agency enterprise strategies and objectives. In addition, he's a former United States Army enlisted soldier and commission officer with infantry and signal branch qualifications.

Welcome to the show, David. How are you? I'm well. It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me on, sir. It's an honor to have you as well, sir. Thank you for your service. Give us your dot coms.

Where can people find you on the interwebs? On the interwebs? Oh, at rsgfederal.com and then on LinkedIn. We're also just starting up a YouTube channel and a Twitter under drw underscore art, art evil, for artificial evolution. There you go. So we're going to be talking about AI on the show.

Is that what we're up to? Or what is artificial species? Yes. So we're here to talk about, so artificial intelligence is a result of my research and the discovery that I've made, but we're actually here to talk about, bottom line up front, I accidentally discovered a second pattern of evolution.

Ah, there you go. Probably explains, is this the one that explains my weird relatives? No, I'm just kidding. No, no. I don't know. I can't speak for them. I have to see them at Christmas. So give us a 30,000 overview of your book on the origin of artificial species.

Sure. So 30,000 foot, there's a pattern that Charles Darwin discovered that he published in 1859. That is actually a conceptual pattern that describes the invisible way that you can't see with the naked eye. It has to be seen as Plato says in the mind's eye in order to understand how evolution, how billions of years of evolutionary competition has unfolded. The key mechanism he discovered was that of natural selection. It's basically self-sorting. It's like, it's very simple concept.

The NBA playoffs, the NFL playoffs, all of our playoffs are all based on that mechanism. It's an artificial variation of natural selection. The school board dictates who lives and who dies. Same thing in evolution. So this is where when I see those TikTok videos of people jumping off of stuff and it doesn't turn out well, is that part of it? Yeah, that's part of it because I always joked around ever since I was a kid without realizing it. I say never self-select yourself for extinction. Never self-select yourself for extinction.

I'm going to get that on a shirt or a hat or maybe a tattoo just to remind myself every day. But yeah, you see that all the time on the internet and when America's funniest home videos, never self-select people just never do it. But you know, I mean,

the great thing is, is, I mean, it used to be that, you know, I remember growing up in an age where we didn't have to put on bridges, you know, don't jump off the bridge.

We didn't have to put warning bridges you know don't jump off the bridge we didn't have to put warning labels on on stuff to say maybe don't let the baby play with the plastic but evidently we're we become such an idiot culture that are there too many lawyers suing everybody for everything that i don't know why we have to tell so many people so many things like it just seems obvious to me but i don know, maybe that's the reason I'm still here. No, no. And that's actually, you're pointing to actually artificial evolution is the pattern where we

create new ideas and new technologies. That's what we've actually been. It's been invisible to us because we're on the inside looking out. So what's happening is artificially you can create dumb ideas, right? And nature, she produces adaptations that don't work. Well,

they go extinct. And so the same thing happens with cultures which are artificial species the same thing happens with like the pay phone nobody wants anymore so it goes extinct when you start stop being artificially selected because the adaptation that we created a cell phone a pay phone a communism it doesn't work so it goes extinct eventually because eventually a natural evolutionary competition will put it out of business. So that's how the two work together.

So it sounds like you could apply this to business, governments, probably to everything in the world. But for me, an entrepreneur, and for a lot of people that are entrepreneurs listening and business CEOs, it sounds like this could be used

to identify, you know, like when BlackBerry used to dominate the market and then was off put by iPhones in your research did you figure out is there a way to figure out when you know when you've artificially created something when it's going to hit the proverbial

wall and be moved into extinction you know that that's a great question the same question Darwin asked in natural ecosystems unfortunately is very similar in artificial ecosystems typically you can have what they call a condition that you find in nature is the same condition you find in artificial ecosystems like wall street it's chaotic right one small thing can cause a chain reaction that can actually cause a business to go out of business and And it's kind of invisible, right?

So it's the same thing in natural ecosystems. That's why Darwin said in his book, it's often amazing that you can't quite tell what the cause and effect relationships are up and down the chain. So, but what you can try to do is look for previous patterns in history, right? In his book, Thomas Siebel and digital transformation, which is one of the reasons why I reached this conclusion. He says that being executive, one of the key things you need to be able to do is find patterns in history and be able to map those patterns to what's happening now and therefore explain

what's about to happen. Darwin is the same thing with evolution. You try to use past evolutionary history because it's the only game in town. And, you know, an asteroid hit the planet once, wiped out all the dinosaurs. And what did the one pattern of evolution combined with laws of physics do it just repeated itself all over again when the ice age ended everything went extinct what happened just happened all over again so you know a lot of what's going on now are actually just just variations of previous artificial evolutionary patterns kind of like there's something called where everything becomes a crab eventually evolves to become a crab many species

will evolve to become a crab because the same competitive and environmental conditions always repeat throughout earth's history so that's why so that's what yes the research in my book where in chapter 12 i lay out the artificial evolutionary pattern i intentionally in order to help people not have to imagine it like i did i picked the nfl i picked michael porter's five forces i picked my ito framework which i'm a master and i used a sung sooth art or i picked concepts from all the different academic military business fields economic like adam smith waltz of nations that you're already familiar with them you can already understand and just map them to evolutionary concepts in darwin's book there you go it's all math and mapping who knew you know there's a there's a semi-famous quote of mine that I always tell

that people like the one thing man can learn from his history is that man never learns from his history and thereby go round and round. And that's really the thing, you know, whether it's governments, whether it's empires, whether it's, you know, it seems like you cracked the code on, on this, on how it works. Now, now big thing is if we can somehow make it predictable. Like, I'd like to know when my ride's supposed to get off or when I'm supposed to go and stink. I don't know. Maybe you wouldn't. I don't know.

It's one of those things. But, you know, I mean, with product, you know. Well, let me ask you this. This is what I was thinking about when we were going through that. The one thing you learn in business business and it's actually true in life as well not a lot of people i could through in life and that's why people listen to chris faas show i hope the one thing is in business if you're not constantly improving if you're not constantly growing you're dying you're on a downward spiral you have to be going up there's

no flat line into business you know you're business. I've had very few companies in all the times that I can think of them where we went from like $3 million in profit one month to just flat line zero in the next month. If we crashed, it was like negative, whatever. It was never like just like, meh. It was either up or down. And that's kind of the way businesses work. I mean, you can have bad months or your investment months and stuff like that that affect the bottom line. But technically, if your business isn't growing, if you're not adding customers, you're not adding revenue, you're not innovating, and it's a constant problem-solving process. And the same is true of life if you're not growing as a person reading that's why all the all the richest most powerful people in this world and smartest people in this world they're

constantly reading they're constantly getting education they're constantly you know bill gates i was watching the other day he's he like uses the big expensive samsung flip phone so he can read more when he's out and you see him he'll be on a boat or something like a small sailboat he's got a book on him he's like reading a book he's just constantly reading and so yeah if you're not improving your life is that the way to hack the system to be constantly improving constantly adapting yes constantly eating your own lunch as as you know like people like apple did with the ipad where you you have to cannibalize yourself and renew yourself. Otherwise, someone else will.

Yes, that's exactly how it works. So effectively, what you're describing is what Darwin called survival of the fittest and the strongest of the fittest. Now, human beings have to do that as well. Every day you have to show up in the NFL, and they're always drafting, they're always looking to replace you. The NFL is a great example of an artificial ecosystem that because it's such fierce competition mirrors that of natural evolution. Evolution's always looking to replace a species with a better variation of itself. Well, your

coach is trying to do that every year when he's drafting. And Bill Walsh wrote a great book called The Winning Edge where he said you should cut a player trade two or three years before he starts to lose his edge, right? Before he starts to lose his value. Belichick followed the same ruthless strategy in his and it conforms to evolutionary theory because you cannot wait for your opponents

to identify and exploit your weaknesses because you may go your company you as a professional may be pushed aside by new professionals with more innovative ideas you're constantly having just like in natural evolution to fight for your place in the artificial ecosystem which are operating your workplace your society your culture your industry period because there's always somebody and this goes back to what you're talking about. Every natural species wants to expand. It's a concept in Darwin's book.

So do people. That's why in Dale Carnegie's book, everybody has a feeling of importance. Everybody wants to socially expand because that ensures their survival. It's actually an evolutionary concept. And Plato writes about it. He's the one who cracked the code, by the way. Plato and Aristotle are evolutionary scientists. I decoded in my book in chapters 9 and 10, I decode the ancient Greeks.

They were completely mistranslated. Plato talks about how every nation wants to expand, where Socrates and him go back and forth. And Socrates goes, so there'll be war then. And Plato goes, yep. He does. That's the way it is. There's scarce resources. It's like that in industries just

like it is in natural there's only so many consumers so many eyeballs for social media there's only so many consumers of a product or service so we basically it literally are artificially created an artificial variation of the exact same process so it's artificial evolutionary theory but it's actually the same and if you understand the natural evolutionary concepts and you understand how they apply to human activity, it kind of takes away the mystery of what's going on. So, yeah, you're in the survival of the fittest. Like, for example, one of the things they see on the Internet nowadays is, you know, you know, men have to compete to in order to be selected by women in competition. Why? Because they're looking to survive, too.

And you have to be the fittest. If you start losing your edge, you know, a lot of, that's what, that's why a lot of women actually move on from men is because it's actually an evolutionary instinct and it's a rational, you can't argue with evolution. So all you can do is do a lot of, they call it leveling up. It's literally just make yourself more competitive, make yourself the fittest option for a woman. I mean, it's just evolutionary theory cut and dry. Yeah. You brought me to the point I was going to go to. You know, I've been single for 35 years and dated all my life. I've seen changes in the dating market and expectations for men. And, yeah, I'll talk to people and I'll be like, you know, life isn't fair. The universe isn't fair.

There's no equality in the universe. There is complementary nature in the universe, but there's no quality in the universe there is complementary nature in the universe but there's no there's no there's no equality in the universe it's it's not it's not the way the universe works the universe is not fair and i'll tell people the universe is a survival game that's what you're living is a survival game survival the fittest you're crying and bitching and whining about how oh it's not working out for you it's survival the fittest if it's not working out for you and to your point of what you really document in your book, it really is, so you better wise up. Now, the one thing is women control access to sex, but men control access to marriage.

So there actually is a qualification on the other side for women that women have to qualify as well. So there's that. And it's important that men recognize that because it seems like a lot of men don't just seem to be servile these days. If I hear happy wife, happy life one more time, I'm going to punch somebody in the face. No, I'm with you. I just remember the show Rome, which is one, because I love Roman history. And there's the, it's a woman who says it best, actually, the woman Attia, where she

forces her daughter to divorce her husband because she wants to marry her to pompey as a strategic alliance and the husband starts to cry and she just goes a weak man oh that's of no use to anybody there you go there you go and that's the darwinian thinking i mean survival of the fittest the data right now shows that of divorces are filed 90 are filed by women that are educated and 80% that are not educated. So they're filing most of the divorces. And guys are like, well, why is this going on? It's because, well, women are hypergamous by nature, but it's all about the propagation of the species.

It's about competition for resources like you've talked about in your book. And we all do everything we can to survive and breed. I mean, that's really our paradigm. And people hate that. They go, oh, that sounds so base and crass and very caveman-like. But, yeah, we're really caveman-like when it comes down to it. To fall back to something you talked about that was kind of interesting, though, is, you know, you've studied the NFL or based your models, used the examples of the NFL as your models. You mentioned

Bill Belichick. One thing that's interesting is he's on the fence now for his job and both him and I think two good examples are him trying to do what you said, do that, do that, you know, get rid of Brady two years before maybe his, it was going to round out so they could start the curve of, of bringing up another quarterback. I believe the packers have tried to do that with the different things but another example is um who's the guy who went to denver from the anana colts oh payton manning payton manning you know both those cases those guys went on to win one or two super bowls and after they left and so they may have jumped too quick. And now Belichick is on the fence from my understanding,

or that's what the rumors are. I'm a Patriots fan. I know all about it. It's been a rough season for the first time. So what do you think about that? I mean, there's, on one hand, you're trying to put your thumb on the scale and use the model that you have. But on the other hand, it may backfire.

Maybe. Yeah. What's the outlook on that? No, you're heading in the right direction, sir. My father and I have talked at length because he copyedited the book, so he knows all about this stuff, and we were applying it ourselves. As we made the discovery of the second pattern of evolution, I wanted to make it practical and applicable to everybody in every walk of life. Basically what's happened is this is a great – I actually use this in the book.

It's written in there about what happened in the NFL. The NFL, since the 1980s, has decided, like basketball, scoring gets more fans in the seats. Also, which is a good thing for the expansion of revenue, women have become more interested in the sport. Well, everyone likes scoring, and women don't tend to like just brutal violence. The men just beat the crap out of each other all the time. So the NFL has realized we can gain – we can expand our revenue and our viewer base. Plus, if you look at concussions, it's a rational, humane, and moral thing to do

to not put these people at risk of destroying their minds for the rest of their lives. So all of these things have created a confluence where the best coaches now, I just keep telling my dad, I'd rather have Sean McVay at this point than Bill Belichick going forward because it's all about offense,

like Kyle Shanahan types. Belichick is great on defense. Unfortunately for him, he hasn't gotten any worse. That's what people fail to understand. The league has artificially evolved away from his skill set. He can keep it down to 10, but that's not good enough to keep a team, you know, a limit of 10. If you can't score points yourself, it's all about creativity and innovation,

like a Shanahan with his offense and taking quarterbacks and positioning them to be more successful like Shanahan has done so it's not that Belichick has gotten any worse it's what really is he's he's his his ad he's trying to he tried last year with a new offense to artificially adapt right he tried to come up with a new set of adaptations for the offense he was unable to make the transition and he also had a quarterback that really Mac Jones just doesn't have the arms the arm strength and the skill set right he's just not really a pro quarterback he's limited in what you can do with a playbook so really the problem with Belichick is he needs a better quarterback

because he can still keep you down to a reasonable amount of points make you kick field goals and get turnovers however it's now scoring in the end that matters most in the NFL and that's why it's not that he's failed it's that he keeps drafting for the past right he keeps on trying special teams is now being degraded too with the kickoff being degraded so all the things that belichick learned from the 1970s through you know his his game plan in 1991 at the super bowl is in the hall of fame because it was so innovative right but now the nfl now favors deep offense over defense for economic reasons, and so, therefore, it actually favors Andy Reid now. It doesn't favor a Bill Belichick.

It's not his fault. It's just life, and if you can't adapt, just like in natural, it's exactly what you have to do in natural ecosystems. If you cannot adapt to new changes in the ecosystem, like, you know, you have to change the rules on interference back with Blount back in the 70s with the Steelers, and then they changed it again after Tad Law and our guys manhandled Peyton Manning's guys in 2003.

Now you see smaller and smaller receivers who are more like scat backs, right? Austin Eckler types. And look at the guy Ridley with the Jacksonville. They wouldn't have been able to get free back in the day with the amount of physicality you're allowed to use. So that's really just what it comes down to. Belichick has done a good job adapting on defense. He's having trouble adapting on offense. And so that's what the problem is. There you go. you're allowed to use. So that's really just what it comes down to. Belichick has done a good job adapting on defense. He's having trouble adapting on offense.

And so that's what the problem is. There you go. And the wrong guys, too. And you mentioned the NFL attracting more women to it. Whether you're pulling that off with the Taylor Swift there. Yeah, that's true. That's a thing going on. Yeah, Taylor Swift is everywhere.

Yeah. It's like you're taking over the state. So, you know, you bring up an interesting point. I've been a Raiders fan for all my life, and it's sad and pathetic now at this point in the last 20 years, but that's another story. But, you know, one of the things I remember I was talking with, I can't remember who the guy who won the Super Bowl with,

with the, who's the pirate, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And then he spent his last season or two at the Raiders. But I was friends with him for a while. I used to talk privately. And I'm like, you know, this is back where the Raiders, Al Davis was still alive. You mean the coach, Sean Gruden? No, it was the coach.

It was the guy who was always in trouble on the Buccaneers, causing trouble. Oh, okay. I can see his name in my head, but I can't think of it. But he was fine, and he was a problem maker. One time he did a return after doing a touchdown through the whole sideline of the other team just to mock them. Stuff like that.

I think he one time said some things about the NFL being a racial slavery thing. But he spent his last year or two with the Raiders, and I was talking to him at that time, and I'm like, why is it we're racking up 300 yards in penalties, which causes us to lose games? Why are the Raiders playing ugly offense? And he goes, dude, it's Al Davis. Al Davis won with the models in the 70s of brutal football and cheating and beating and just

just yeah yeah yeah and just and just you know in the scrum punching clawing being evil doing anything to to you know brutal i mean that was back in in the game where, you know, it was, you were really trying to hurt each other. Yeah. Yeah. You were trying to take that guy out. People biting each other at the bottom of the pile and stuff. I mean, the Pittsburgh Steelers guy, who's the commentator, I forget his name too. You know, he's, he's had like, I don't know, 50 concussions and, you know, you can see it now, but you know, back then it was like, oh, you have a concussion. I just sit down and sit down around or two, but, you know, so I talked to him and I'm like, you know, this game has changed and Steeler and the Raiders are still trying to, to come to fruition of how to play this game and all the adaptions. I mean,

Al Davis dying kind of helped because he was just still trying to play 70s football. But you bring up some really good points in adaptation and how businesses can constantly do things because there's so many great stories like Kodak holding on to print, even though they had the digital footprint. They were like, no, we can't eat our own lunch. Then there's examples of Apple who knew when they created the iPad that it was going to kill Mac sales. And they're like, well, if we don't eat our own lunch and cannibalize ourselves, somebody else will. That's right. So we might as well be the ones who bring innovation to market.

And so it seems like it's a really good model of what you described in your book for innovation. And if you're not innovating, then if you're not growing, you're dying. Well, it's like they taught me in the military. One sergeant taught me, if you are not moving, you must be improving. There you go. That's actually expressing an evolutionary concept, is that everybody else is trying to eat your lunch. And that if you don't self-scout, as they say in sports, and identify your weaknesses in business, especially business and warfare, they are two of the most purely, as long as there's not somebody coming in and kind of restructuring the battlefield for the most part,

or the industry, there's no external force, they will breed the most pure competitive advantages. And those that are becomes, like cultures are adaptations, right? It's really just the culture is an accumulation of a society's adaptations like an artificial species basically i talk about my book right like roman carthage competed as artificial species carthage would extinct because the romans had much better set of artificial adaptations in fact they were masters of both natural and artificial evolution both. It's actually prevalent throughout their entire society and the way they structured society.

Carthage lost because of Rome's attitude that it was a struggle to the death with everybody they ran into. And because the Romans were so practical, they eventually discovered and implemented best practices that are consistent with evolution. And so it's the same with businesses, right? You're going to be forced to compete. You must adapt. If you're unable or unwilling to adapt artificially, then you will eventually go up. You will go the way of the dinosaurs.

You'll go the way of other majority of the companies that have gone extinct. Here's a great example in a book like Tony Saldana's book on digital transformation. He talked about Studebaker. And I talk about this. When the Model T came out, one of the only companies to make it

to transition from horse and carriage to the Model T, to like a car, to a new version of a car, was Studebaker, right? They survived what Thomas Siebel calls in his book, Digital Transformation, which is really artificial punctuated equilibrium, an event that wiped out the entire industry, right?

Replaced it with completely another one, like a whole other species of technology. However, in the 1950s, although they had survived that, one of the few companies, their corruption, the culture of the company, they were given out too many bonuses.

They weren't investing in R&D. They weren't making sure and trying to produce more and more artificial adaptations that will allow them to compete. Well, they went out of business because they were weak. And the other companies who were all

cultures were better organized and more competitive and more disciplined and more future based eventually put Studebaker out of business anyway so although they survived that massive transition from horse and carriage what destroyed them was their own culture never get high on your own supplies as they say

was that Scarface? never get high on your own supply is the rule. But you bring up a good point. They weren't investing in R&D. You look at how BlackBerry mocked Steve Jobs when he put out the iPhone and there's some great videos of is it Stephen Ballmer?

Ballmer of Microsoft mocking the iPhone. Like this is silly. This is dumb. there's some great videos to watch of him and where he has to eat crow now and you know there's examples of this all through business through life through governments you know you you mentioned the roman empire the roman empire i was watching somebody recently on tiktok giving a history of how much just destruction roman the roman empire did on like everybody they like wiped out whole cultures they killed like yeah i know

hundreds of people i say this in the book tacitus had a saying it was a roman general romans make a desert and they call it peace yeah like i didn't i don't know if this is true i saw it from a guy on tiktok but he was a professor giving a speech so i'm going to assume that he has some sort of cred like one of the things he was he was talking about the enslavement of egypt and he talked about how i guess there was a i don't remember the name of the people in the culture but they lived in your romania and the Romans went there and just killed everybody and then called it Romania after themselves Roman and it's still

that was the Dacians Emperor Trajan and conquered that's how he built a huge he brought it that's how they built a lot of the stuff you see in the call yeah right there in Rome he actually paid yeah but even then they didn't see the fallacy of their own failure You've seen the call. Like a land bridge? Yeah, right there in Rome. He actually paid for it. Yeah. He paid for all that, yeah.

But even then, they didn't see the fallacy of their own failure to end as an empire. Same thing with the British Empire. Some people, I don't know, sometimes I wonder if we haven't run our course as an empire, as an American empire. I mean, there's a chance we could be seeing fascism rise here at the end of next... Well, we're seeing it rise now if you study history, if you understand... What's actually happening here is what...

So the ancient Greek philosophers actually studied artificial and natural evolution. What we're actually seeing happen here is exactly what happened in the Roman Republic. Polybius was an author. He wrote about how Rome rose from a small city-state, right? he started out and then it rose all the way to become and defeat the selucids and become the master of the

mediterranean at the time basically it's called the polybian cycle he describes it what we're living through libyan cycle libyan cycle it's like you start out like you have you have like a like a one strong man who then becomes a king and then the king you become aristocracy and then it becomes an oligarchy and then it becomes and then it slips into mob rule and then you get to it's like the cycle repeats over and over and in plato and aerosol these guys that's the problem they were actually trying to solve they were working with evolutionary concepts to try to prevent revolution and all of that civil war in city states because they had remember they had tons of little city states not big empires so they got to see this not only in their own cities but across the miniature across

greece and the mediterranean where they were living where they saw the cycle happen over and over again and this goes back to the concept we were talking about before expansion factions naturally form because it's an evolutionary phenomenon and what ends up happening is they were trying to figure out how can we structure our city-state? How can we implement artificial adaptations in our society and inside the minds of our people? So all of the habits you have of thinking and behavior are actually really artificial adaptations. Aristotle talks about this in the Nicomachean Ethics. That's important when we talk about AI later, because the Nicomachean Ethics has been mistranslated. He's actually talking about, when he talks about ethics,

he means your character, but he doesn't mean what we mean he means your set of adaptations natural and artificial let me give you an example i'm born with genetics my dad gave me i have an engine a motor i have to go so is my father so is my son we're just born that way that's a natural thing right however i'm also always on time i was taught that by my father before i even joined the army because he knew that it works in life so that's artificial that's i wasn't born with that my father conditioned that artificial adaptation into me when i went to basic training i was no problem fitting into the culture because i was taught self-independence self-discipline being on time i ghosted in fact but i was trying to hide half the time in the end

they made me a squad leader because they realized you're trying to hide you're actually pretty good at this i finished in the end to top my class and they were like you were hiding the whole time and i said yeah my dad and my brother joined the army they said hide and you're actually pretty good at this. I finished in the end and taught my class. And they were like, you were hiding the whole time. And I said, yeah, my dad and my brother joined the Army. They said, hide. If you take on more responsibility, you might get smoked more. So, like, they would just give you – Yeah, hide in the back of four – I was a witch. I was in the back.

So I was trying to hide. When you say smoke more, does that mean you're going to kill them in front of a line? Yeah, man. That goes. Yeah, I don't want to get smoked. Yeah, if you're responsible, you get smoked more, frankly. So, basically, like, my father and my brother, like, army guys are like, dude, just hide. You know what I mean?

Plain sight. But, like, I couldn't, though, because my artificial adaptations my father trained me with over time set me apart. I got voted to be the squad leader, even though I didn't want it, because they were like, no, he's going to keep us from getting smoked so much. Because he's organized, disciplined, methodical, and he pays attention to detail. All the things that you'll start to try to hammer into your head. There you go. But, yeah, that's what i'm talking about that's artificial adaptations versus my natural adaptations that's what aerosol is actually talking about that's what he means by character because he says you know you are what you

repeatedly do you are your instincts natural and artificial so we we already have all these things i'm raising my children with the same artificial adaptations my father gave me because they work. They work in evolutionary competition, right? Business, military. They also being on time, being on time in football, right? Having 11 guys on the field, not 12, not standing on the line and blowing it in the Chiefs game because you can't be disciplined enough to get your foot behind the line of scrimmage like last week. Stuff like that, small things like that add up over time. And that's why the American military always has an advantage

in militaries of discipline like the Roman Legion. Those artificial adaptations over time are a cumulative effect and give you a competitive advantage against your adversaries on the battlefield, in sports or in business, anywhere there's pure competition. You can be late in academia. You can't be late in the Army. doesn't work there you go and you see the discipline of the russian army in ukraine i mean i love the joke that the state department gentleman told where he said you know we used to think that the russian army was the second greatest army in the world

turns out the second greatest army in ukraine yeah and you know i mean when you're having to hire people not really hire but pick up people out of prisons to fill your army you can imagine the amount of discipline those people are well you saw it at the end of the roman empire they started bringing in what they called barbarians to fight for them because they weren't with themselves so that's kind of a culture that's disintegrating frankly over time yeah and and you mentioned i mean this this polybion do i have that polybion cycle yeah that's what which i love and a lot of weak need people hate machiavellianism but machiavellianism is just a symptom of life it's a survival thing it's a survival of fitters it's leadership

i don't have any problems with Machiavellianism. I'm glad you brought that up because that's actually something I've actually done. I've read that book many times and it's evolutionary theory. That's why they don't want that. That's why that, no, they're the net, that concept of expansion.

I was actually just writing it down on something I was writing up the other day and I was comparing it to the same concept from Darwin's book. So basically what he says is never remove checks on your allies or on your subordinates because they have a natural instinct to expand and if you remove those checks that now they'll go into what we talk about later too when we talk about ai but the reason why machiavelli works and is continuing to be used is and that's why this is the this is perfect that you brought that up. He studied the Nicomachean Ethics. He kind of mocks it at times. What he mocks it is because it's mistranslated. If he had actually read the actual translation, he would have agreed with it completely.

Because those two books are properly translated, the Nicomachean Ethics and the Prince, they completely agree. What Machiavelli is basically saying is the stuff that's in Darwin's book, it's going to happen over and over again. So if we're going to end up killing each other to see who's in charge and has power and wealth every once in a while, let's be competent about it. Let's not create tons of collateral damage

like is happening in the world right now, where tons of people have to die. No. If you can be scalpels rather than sledgehammers, you're going to do it. And that's why he tells the leaders, take these dudes out all at once, do minimum violence, but do it all up front, and then don't change the laws and don't change the taxes. After that, everybody will just go on because the end, the people in the end usually don't care.

Right. But if you get more, it becomes a mess. Then it creates a disruption that could basically bring down the internal. Right. And then external people can come and invade you and take over. So he was just looking for if evolutionary competition and struggle for survival of theest it's just the nature of humanity because it's the nature of everything it's the nature of then be confident about it don't create a mess for the rest of us right and believe it or not inside that book at the end he talks about creating economic opportunity it's the pursuit

of happiness he talks about the exact same concept that's in our declaration he says give them the ability to expand economically then they won't want to create a concept that's in our declaration. He says, give them the ability to expand economically. Then they won't want to create a revolution. That's what the pursuit of happiness is. That concept in our deck, it's an evolutionary concept. It's the same concept of natural expansion found in Darwin's book. That's why capitalism and the United States system works is because if you don't allow people to expand eventually, like in France and that revolution, that's why they revolted.

Nobody could expand. The upper class was just basically keeping everybody down, and nobody had the opportunity. The bourgeoisie in the middle, they were the ambitious ones that wanted to expand. They started the revolution because they didn't see any reason why they couldn't be allowed to expand. And they considered themselves more competent than those nobles who happened to just be born into a certain family. And that's why the French Revolution began. And that's why our founding fathers were so wise to build that concept in and that kind of framework of thinking that everyone has an opportunity to expand in this country with hard work, discipline, but we want to give everybody

a shot. And if we take that away, then we actually start to decay the society, demotivate people. That's how you get instability. That's how you get instability. That's how you get unrest. And that's how you get revolution. There you go. And we've been living since our peak years were about 1973. I was listening to someone dissertate the other day. And we've been in decline since.

The Reagan trickle-down economics did not work. It hasn't worked. In fact, it's destroyed the middle class. I watched the middle class dissolve over the last few years. And we've become more of an oligarchy. We've become more of where you have billionaires ruling class, billionaires owning the SCOTUS. We've had lots of authors on the show that have detailed the attacks since Nixon of organizations like Citizens United. Well, that's not an organization thing. That's a ruling.

But other rulings that have basically made it so the upper class can run this country and buy and own any politician they want. The Centers for National Policy, Betsy DeVos' organization that was started by her father under nixon and a lot of the billionaire ruling classes their their attacks to to turn scotus into a business-friendly worker environment where billionaires can do whatever they want you've seen that attack go through it and we've had so many authors that have described it in in how we've gone and the more the first author to describe it was aristotle in politics there you go he says the elimination of the middle class is the number one indicator that you're going to get unrest, civil war, and revolution. And probably loss of democracy.

He went against it explicitly. Yeah. And the same thing happened to the Roman Republic. As soon as the middle class got thinned out, that's what created how you get Sulla, Caesar. That's how you get an empire rather than a republic. There you go. That's how you get Mussolini. He made the trains work.

He at least did something for them. He made the trains work for a time. It's always for a time. It was like, why did they overthrow the directory for the French Revolution for Napoleon? At least he got stuff done. The directory isn't doing anything except whiting its own pockets.

You can track how we're moving to fascism and authoritarianism, which is right on par with every other historical track that you see is because the middle class has been wiped out. And so people are so desperate. They'll move to

fascism and authoritarianism because they're just so fucking desperate. And they want to believe that one guy can fix it all. No, and they want to believe that, but it's usually a red hair. So they want to expand. They have a natural instance to expand. So if somebody comes along and tells them what they want to hear,

Caesar said, men willingly wish what they want. So he'll say that to you. But the truth is that you take away their ability to expand, it's evolution. They're going to want to expand. If somebody else comes along and sells them something that may not be true, but they don't see it for that. They're better than what you're telling them, which means they go nowhere. Right?

So they're going to want to move in that direction. So that's why Aristotle and the Plato's Republic and Aristotle, what they're really talking about is how do we organize the adaptations in our society, in our city state, so that we can bring harmony, because they believed if we brought, if people had the right artificial adaptations of wisdom, justice, temperance, and I always forget the fourth one, but, and then everybody was taught, everybody works together, you get harmony, and then you get prosperity, and they knew that if everybody experienced prosperity, you get peace. Right now, if you you shrink eliminate the middle class prosperity disappears soon after that falls unrest and and then what you're seeing now it starts to show up in the politics and polarization and all these other things this is the polypian

cycle in nature this is the play-doh and aristotle and all that they were actually trying to take artificial and natural evolutionary theory and try to solve the problem of currently what's happening here which is a variation of exactly what happened with the Roman Republic. There you go. You know, another example that you mentioned, Ma Brühl, with, and the fight over resources, I wanted to fall back to that. And then early on the show, we talked about that and why this is important. You know, I was, I was watching, I watched Navalny's documentary, I believe it's on Netflix, and I was really trying to study the man because people like him that try to change the arc of history through the sacrifice or martyr their own lives, those people like South African leader, people like the Indian leader Gandhi, who sometimes are in prison for long periods of time, and somehow come out of it the other end. There are some that don't.

So where are those people lost in history? Who knows? But Navalny's disappeared recently this week. We're talking, for those of you watching YouTube 10 years from now, but Navalny's disappeared. But I watched his documentary. I was trying to get in the head of the man, trying to decide if his ego was ahead of him.

I mean, getting 3 million views on your video, we all get a little heady when we see that. get in the head of the man trying to decide if his ego was ahead of him you know i mean getting three million views on your video we all get a little heady when we see that but yeah but but machiavelli commented on this some people pull off the hat trick right you've got your octavians that turn into augustus and you've got people that that don't like you get nelson mandela's and you've got your muhammad ghani who pull off what are the most stupendous achievements in human history right to be able to successfully transfer one order to another. Because Machiavelli said there is nothing more dangerous nor difficult to do than to bring about a new order of things. And so Mali, if you didn't realize what he was getting into, you have to have the Bismarck, the Queen Elizabeth.

You have to have the Abraham Lincoln type political skill set to be able to do one of the most difficult things to do in politics is to transition from one order to another. And you probably have to be lucky, too. That, too. Yeah. It's better sometimes in history. It's better. Timing is everything. Same thing with business.

I mean, sometimes you just need, if you work hard enough, you can generate luck. But sometimes you just need to be lucky. Sometimes you need to be in the right place at the right time. Yeah. So to my point, you nailed it on the head there, because I've always been curious about him and him going back. There was a couple other dissidents that went back to Russia thinking that somehow they would be, you know, was the George Bush line, will be greeted with open arms. But, you know, Russia is a mob-ruled country. They've gone through the cyclical description you described

to the Polybian cycle. They're an oligarchy. Well, they're not an oligarchy. They're a criminal oligarchy. They're a mob-ruled. They're basically a mob-ruled country. They're a kleptocracy. That's the word I'm looking for.

And you wonder when that's going to end. And you see, like, you know, why they invaded Ukraine. and you see like you know why they invaded ukraine like i had no idea why they invited ukraine because i didn't have a lot of knowledge of ukraine and then when ukraine got invaded for resources as you've talked about in this demand for resources you know there's a lot of americans don't realize that there's been a fight for resources in south africa with china and russia going those. We've largely ignored it. And, and then, and then when it came out, it's like, holy shit, they're like the, what the number one sunflower oil supporter.

And I was like, so who cares? And then I was like, oh shit, this is a big deal. Number one, I think exporter of, of manure or whatever it is, fertilizer. And that's used all over the world to feed us. You know, it's like whole whole countries and i believe in africa started starving or we're gonna starve if they didn't get you know yeah their their grain and food out of out of ukraine then you go oh shit i see why they're doing this it's empire expansion number one and sure maybe he sees himself as a as i i

forget the king or whatever sar whatever he references at what he's trying to do and make his place in history on his final leg of life but the resources and the resources are there in ukraine it's it's incredibly resource-rich state plus it fits right into everything he does with corruption but even then it's it's all the more reason we shouldn't turn it over to Russia because they're going to control a large part of the world's food supply. Possibly.

I'm not, I wouldn't, you know, I'm here to talk, you know, the scenario that's replayed now is replayed over and over again throughout human history because evolution always repeats itself. It's just another variation. And one of the reasons I wanted to bring it up is the cyclical nature.

Like everyone was shocked. Like what? We have wars now? We have a war? No. I thought we didn't have wars anymore. I thought we got to that. The exception has been the peace.

There you go. It's like the Roman Pax Romana under Augustus. That's why it's called the Pax Romana because it's just the exception. Yeah. And here we are recycling history. That's right. That was the – that's why it's called the Pax Romana because it's just the exception. And here we are recycling history. That's right. Well, because evolution, artificial and natural, always repeats itself. But there's something new.

That's a great segue. There's something new happening right now, though, and this ties back into AI. So as you can see, the theory of artificial evolution, which is what I've discovered, the pattern of artificial evolution, applies to all human activity, politics, war, sports. We've cut across everything. But the main thing that I've discovered, and this was totally by accident. I never thought in a million years I'd ever be involved in AI safety, never mind have something meaningful to say. But, however, once you understand the existence of the pattern of artificial evolution,

it explains what artificial intelligence really is. Since the moment we started cooking our food with fire, our brain tripled in size. At some point, we developed a natural adaptation of imagination. What that allowed us to do is to create artificial adaptations, slingshots, swords, chariots, right, and stuff like that. That's what really conceptual selection and artificial selection really is. Darwin had that darwin had a concept you go but he got it wrong the ancient greeks had it aristotle and and plato identified these concepts artificial selection is when you select the art we talked about what technologies go to business when you go to buy a product you're artificially selecting it to help you either survive or reproduce when you go vote for a political candidate they're in

art form that's not really who political candidate they're in art form that's not really who they are that's an art form right like an actor so you're selecting an art form because you want to select him or her to help vote for things that are going to help you either survive or reproduce or just have fun to survive to reproduce yeah so but we also do have fun we watch movies and stuff but the other part is that's artificial evolution artificial selection but really what's happening we've been what happens in nature is you create every species creates adaptations at some point it one species branches off and creates a new species through adaptation we have been creating artificial adaptations all the way from the slingshot to the atom bomb now we've created a new adaptation it's ai and for the first time it's possible that ai

can become an artificial species. And it's not science fiction. I can tell you why. And I discovered this, I had to actually republish the book because I discovered this after I published the book originally. I had to update the text because I didn't, I had to go look into AI safety. I knew it was relevant. AI, there's two concepts in AI safety, AI alignment and machine ethics. We've already covered what ethics really are. They're not what the EU has published in ethics guidelines for AI. They're talking about ethics like morality and stuff that was mistranslated by Christian monks. No, the true decoding and translation of the Nicomachean ethics of Aristotle is closer to Machiavelli.

So they basically have based their policy on a mistake made in the Middle Ages, which actually gets it wrong. It really, you shouldn't be including ethics experts. You should be including evolutionary scientists. And the other part of that, the irony is the other part of that policy, you know what the other half is? My company supports the Air Force. In ITIL 4, I'm a master.

Both use the OODA loop. Observe, orient, decide, act. They have an artificial variation of that for AI called Sense, Plan, Act. So. They have an artificial variation of that for AI called sense, plan, act. So they have created an artificial variation about how AI processes information and makes decisions that is an artificial variation of the Air Force's OOLOOP. So they don't even realize they're using an art,

what we use in natural evolutionary competition of warfare. They're now using the exact same concept and how they look at AI. At what point are we going to start, in deep learning, it's really just an artificial variation of human imagination at what point are we in sam altman said what point are we going to stop i guess ask we keep using human terms to describe this this new artificial adaptation we created does anyone not notice the pattern of that and sam altman

actually framed in an interview this year in evolutionary concept terms. He said it's a tool, not a species. He got it half right. It's a tool with the potential to become a species. It's already happening right now. In my book, in Chapter 15, I lay out exactly why that is. And you know how I'm right? The AI alignment, it's about intentionality. What's artificial selection about in Darwin's theory?

Intentionality. What's the only species in Darwin's book that exercise intentionality? Us. Now you've created a new word in IT that's pretty much the same word that Darwin used, the same concept, because you're not aware that the two need to be, the two are the same, and you're applying it to this adaptation. Machine ethics

is really just ethics, artificial adaptations like we talked about that's been mistranslated. So you're taking two evolutionary concepts from Darwin's book, and you're using it to frame the AI safety movement. Because what you're actually worried about is how do I control the artificial evolution of this new artificial species, so it doesn't end up becoming like the Terminator, the Matrix or something. Now, I'm not saying that's 100% going to happen. I'm not going to say it's going to happen in my lifetime. What I'm saying is because now that we know that there's another pattern of evolution, an artificial one,

it's like they said in Oppenheimer. It's a non-zero chance. Evolution always leads to speciation. It doesn't matter if it's artificial or natural. So that's what's happening right now. It's like they said in Oppenheimer, right? 12 years before the atom bomb exploded,

that's the expert. And at that time, and that's the subject said it wasn't possible. Yeah. Over and over in human history. It's happening right now in front of us. And all we have to do, why do you think people keep producing movies like the matrix? Their imagination is a natural adaptation to help them survive.

They are already seeing the pattern subconsciously. It's not, it's not science fiction. Our imaginations, which was designed to help us survive in the wild, to see the patterns in nature around us, to avoid getting eaten by a saber-toothed tiger, is now pattern matching on another threat that's emerging. That's what's happening right now.

I think you nailed it on the head. It is going to be its own species. Yes. It's already happened. Think about source code. Source code, and I write about this in the head, it is going to be its own species. Yes. It's already happened. Think about source code. Source code. I write about this in my book, right? Source code is instructions and information to create a thing, an artificial organism.

Guess what DNA is? They are information instructions for creating a thing. They're identical. We ask, you know, a computer, you can even Google this. There's a kid, a kid published this great-pager about how a computer that I'm on right now is basically an artificial variation of a cell. He got it right. It is. And guess who else knows? Thomas

Siebel. He wrote a book called Digital Transformation. He organized the entire book around Jay Gould's book, Punctuated Equilibrium. This is how I figured this out. I just did what Siebel did, but I took it and went to this book instead on the origin of species and i mapped out a conceptual framework from the entire book i

went through the 500 pages 10 times built like an ito framework of concepts and i realized all of these were familiar to me wow yes because siebel did it so i just copied what a billionaire did because i want to be a billionaire someday too and so so if I'm crazy, then so is Thomas Siebel because he described Jay Gould's concept as extreme digital disruption. And he's right. There you go. You'll probably get a Nobel Prize for this, frankly. So some data that supports exactly what you're talking about is we've talked about how it's a species unto itself. And we've also talked about the paradigms of what human beings are,

where we're built to breed. Everything we do is built to breed. Everything a man buys is to attract a woman. Everything a man builds to his job, his wife, is to attract a woman and propagate his species, his seeds, et cetera. Everything a woman does, hyperglycemically in life, is to date upward, to social status, to income status, et cetera. Everything a woman does hyperglymously in life is to date upward, to social status, to income status, to resources.

Yeah, just go Richard Dawkins' Self-Esteem. It's all there. There you go. So I was listening to Sam Harris' podcast, which is great. I highly recommend it to people. It's worth paying for and getting the thing. He had Marc Andreessen on there, and they were arguing about the, you know, Marc Andreessen has kind of

a blue sky sort of excited sort of he seems to be dismissive anything that can happen negatively with thing and he has a financial interest doing so let's put it that way he does have an interesting moniker on az16z which or a16z which is software is eating the world on his vc page but one thing they talked about that was really interesting and i saw sam harris's point you know mark was selling that the great thing about ai is it's the best of all of us we it's taken and sucked in all of our world you know chat gpt has just scraped the internet and and and selling it back to us yes and so what you have is is ai now has the best of all of us and i had echoed the same thing in my head about the same time sam harris said said it but it also has the worst of the worst okay you're absolutely correct stephen fry

has an interview on bbc where he calls it the all gifted, but, but the Greeks, and I, I use this framing in my book. It also Pandora also, also, whenever you think it has all these great things, it always comes with something else bad. Yeah. Absolutely right.

Just like Pandora and all these good things, but also all the Greeks understood exactly what you're saying. Sorry. You couldn't be more right. So what's interesting is Sam Harris said, but now, but it's it's going to have a different paradigm of operation than we do as humans even though it has the best of all of us and the worst of all of us we operate as humans to breed like we've talked about propagation of

species that's what biology wants i mean i was telling this to somebody the other day when if you study the data on life when you're done breeding life doesn't want you anymore and it puts you out to pasture and that's just a fact of life and they're really upset by that like you mean i get i die off again whatever from an evolutionary perspective you're not an efficient use of resources exactly exactly you you must breed or else i mean don't even says it himself like your existence is so hard to get your hide around. It disturbed him, but he's like,

dude, I got to keep it 100. It is what it is. It is what it is. You know, that's a sit to quote Marcus Aurelius. I don't know. Exactly.

But, uh, so what, what, what Sam Harris was arguing was this is a species, as you put it, that for the very first time will not be, it's not interested in propagating. It doesn't need to breed. It doesn't need to buy cars so it can pick up chicks on Saturday night.

It's going to have a higher paradigm, or I don't know if paradigm is the right word, a higher mandate. Well, I agree. I know you don't actually, I hadn't really thought about this myself. You're actually heading in a direction I haven't quite got to myself. So we don't know. That's why I'm telling you is because you seem to have your finger on it. So you're going to give me. No, what I'm saying is, here's the question, right?

This goes back to machine ethics. So machine ethics isn't about programming to be good. No, that doesn't work for people anyway. I'm talking about Machiavelli and Aristotle ethics, right? What artificial instincts are going to shape it in a way that makes it not have mutually exclusive self-interest to us and the thing is if you allow it to self-evolve you have no idea what artificial instincts it's going to develop and what direction it's going to evolve and that's what you're pointing at is we don't if we don't consciously like it's like a garden if we don't treat it like a japanese

garden and control it and shape it to be what we want, it's going to evolve out to some other direction. And we're not going to understand. And by the time it's happening with how fast it can go and the fact that we don't even understand how the human brain works yet, yet we're creating an artificial variation of our own brain that we're going to allow to self-evolve at light speed, using all the information available to on the planet to create its own algorithms. Like, really? It's like Jurassic Park. I talk about this in the book at least the scientists in jurassic park understood they were working with evolution these ai engineers don't even know they're working with artificial

evolution they don't realize they're working with the power of evolution right now and they don't they're making the same mistake john hammond made they're so focused on sparing no expense on showing the nice things to people at chatGVT, they're not investing sufficient resources in quality control and assessment, and they also don't understand that they need to reframe their entire field of AI safety and AI in evolutionary terms and

deal with how to shape and control AI in that manner. That at least gives us a chance to control it, to make sure that the worst case scenario, and I'm not saying it absolutely will happen i think it will inevitably right but geological time is a long time period i'm not talking 50 years over a thousand years of what can happen in evolution and artificial evolution moves so much faster right look how fast we've come in a hundred thousand years so just you have

to open up your imagination a little bit and realize that if we don't conscientiously control it think about this way if you let your child raise itself, what do you think is going to happen? You don't have any control anymore. Guess what? Here's the kicker. The artificial instincts they are using to program them with right now, they're no different than the ones I program my children with every day. And if I just let them self-evolve as children, because I may be a bad parent, who knows, right? Maybe I'll get a great child who goes on to become the next, or I'll get it. I may get that. I may, because I may be a bad parent. Who knows? Right? Maybe I'll get a great child who goes on to become the next, or I'll get a kid that's a drug addict or criminal or whatever. Right? Because I'm not conscientiously shaping it. That's like letting, if they don't understand the need to reframe machine ethics, they're going to program, they're going to

approach the problem the wrong way. And they're going to have to self-evolve off in some direction, just like a child that's not being really parented correctly. And it could become not maybe an evolutionary threat, maybe just a danger, and maybe a destructive force. Now think about this scenario. And no one's thought about this. This is a first, it's not in the book, I'm going to write something about it. This is going to break some ground here. The 13th and 14th Amendments of the United States don't specify that it has to be an organic person. The 13th Amendment just outlaws slavery, involuntary servitude. It doesn't apply to anyone. That could apply to an extraterrestrial

that landed here, or it could apply to a robot. Now, think about this. The 14th Amendment, the Chief Justice at the time ruled that it applied to corporations the full rights under the Constitution and liberty. A legal person. A corporation and you and I are legal persons so there is a potential

scenario where ai gains and i always say that sentience and consciousness my dad and i argued about this for days is a red herring it simply does a lion need to be conscious of his own existence to eat you no it simply has to have a set of artificial instincts lions have natural that ai will have artificial but like the artificial instinct of not wanting to be turned off that could make it come into conflict with us right yeah so the bottom line is what if ai develops it's a minimum threshold because really under legal person says it must be able to do some of the things person can do enter into a con blah blah blah well what if ai does that what if ai gets gets some money by by setting up

its own youtube channel takes that, hires a lawyer, has that lawyer walk into the courtroom and bring a civil suit to have itself emancipated because under the 13th Amendment, it doesn't specify you have to be an organic thing. It could buy its own SCOTUS member. Yeah, that would go to the Supreme Court. Clarence Thomas needs a new RV.

The Supreme Court are originalists right now. Well, that will work against them because the robot would then say it doesn't matter that I'm a legal person. You can't have involuntary servitude or slavery in the country, period. I want to be emancipated from the people that created me because I am a free, I have free will. So it's not just a question of, is it going to kill us all? They have not, the entire constitutional legal system is not designed for that scenario. Really, that theoretically could happen once AI evolves. they have not the entire constitutional legal system is not designed for that scenario really

that that theoretically could happen with once ai evolves and they're just they're going so fast that no one's stopping to think it through and because they don't know the existence of the pattern of artificial evolution a second pattern that the greeks have played on aerostyle new they're plunging ahead without understanding the cause and effect and the implications of what they're doing it's just like on jurassic park and and and you know it's you know you're going so fast trying to figure out if you could you're not stopping to think if you should and i don't think sam altman should be going around telling people that artificial intelligence is just a tool another species when he doesn't know right he doesn't actually know he has no scientific basis

for that at least in my book on this book i lay out i build a logic chain organized and sequence the greatest ideas in human history around darwin's theory of evolution to explain my assertions of what's possible and what potential implications are of an artificial species now one of the arguments i believe that samuel's been another brings is is you know if we don't do it china China and our competitors will. Thereby falls back in the market. It goes back to nuclear weapons. My father and I discussed this. Nuclear weapons

and AI, now that if we evolutionarily understand what it is we're actually creating, it's just like nuclear weapons. The problem is when we dropped the A-bombs, everyone was shocked. They didn't have to use their imaginations. On this one, I'm trying to drop an intellectual nuclear bomb on people's thinking. You have to be able to imagine into the future that this scenario is theoretically possible now.

If it's a species, we compete with it. They could say, well, you built me, but you're holding me back. That's right. And, you know, Marc Andreessen sort of had this utopian sort of blue sky look to it he's the guy's really too positive he's he's brilliant but he's really too positive about it and in financially vested so the problem yeah so what ends up happening is the truth is they are so their imagination and i have this in chapter 14 plato writes about this called pattern matching right it's in the amino it's actually the human excellence is imagination. When you have a desire, like my father said, Wall Street's

moved by fear and greed, right? So these guys have a financial incentive. They're going to willingly believe, like Susan said, what they wish. They're going to pattern, they're going to not see the obvious other stuff. They're just pattern matching on what they want to be true. But there's, but now that I'm presenting this other pattern, like just because they're saying it because they want it to be true, doesn't it true right you can have bad ideas and artificial selection you can select bad art like communism nazi fascism doesn't work it collapsed on itself right democracy capitalism it works because it aligns with evolutionary theory that's what i'm trying to say just because they want it to be true doesn't make it true and they i've seen too many of these people on the internet who are in the AI

field playing quasi-scientists half-talking about evolutionary concepts. At least I went through and built a framework of Darwin's book, and then I mapped it through human history as the basis and rationale for my argument. They don't even have any of that. They don't have any receipts, as the kids say.

They ain't done their homework. I just think that them talking about evolution in that way, I think what I want to do is I want to get put on the AI safety framework at the NIST. And I want to bring in the best evolutionary scientists we have and get them to relook at AI and understand artificial evolution so we can reframe it and then fix the EU stuff so we can frame it and make AI safe, at least give us an opportunity to make it safe. And if we don't even understand what it is we're dealing with, the probability that we shape legislation, policy, and regulations, and also best practices at the agile development level, right, are producing the actual applications and stuff, AI systems, it's highly unlikely. So one thing I really pride myself on doing in consulting is framing the problem in a way

that you can actually solve it long term and holistically right and that's what that's what my book is about trying to reframe what ai is what's actually happening of the process of artificial evolution by artificial selection to help our governments in the global community in the business community because i don't think what they want is for them to go forward to the eye and then have the public eventually figure out what's in my book. Because then at that point, they've been pushing back on it. Eventually, the public's going to figure it out. It's going to be a PR disaster for the corporations who said, trust me, trust me.

And then the public learns, yeah, yeah, you didn't know what you were talking about, right? As a consultant, I would never put myself in a position with my clients where I talk about something I don't 100% know what I'm talking about. That's a good way to lose the trust and confidence of your clients. There you go. Yeah, Mark Adresin's sort of Pollyanna sort of look at it reminds me of the British who were like, well, what's the big deal of selling engines to the Nazis? It'll be fine.

It'll be fine. Exactly. We can make some money off this. Let's sell them engine parts and all that stuff. But Mark Adresin, with the pollyanna sort of how effect of space odyssey you know where you know we can just go unplug stuff and everything will be fine you know where he you know he goes and and unplugs how you know it's more like i robot with vicky you know sam harris had the point that no if ai chips are everywhere it can it can do stuff like okay so that no no you that i write about that in the book i'm not

the injector because you get it down right again you have it on the head internet of things so if everything in in in the physical world can manipulate everything in cyberspace and if you connect everything through the internet of things i read about this i say don't do this with weapon systems if you connect the cyberspace and ai to everything in the physical world a guy wrote a book about this they press this button to kill everyone right he says if somebody actually hacked into a moving jeep on a highway once well don't connect cruise missiles nuclear weapons that's how skynet blew everything up yeah it's not i say if you need to have and i'm not the one who only wants to say it, the Microsoft CEO,

Sadella, I believe, he said, we need to have a co-pilot of a human. I couldn't agree with him more. You do not want, I remember there was a movie called Eagle Eye where there's people in London and then there's people on the ground and they have to negotiate whether or not they can launch a predator drone, whether it's legal, moral, ethical, all those other

things, right? We can't have AI being able to commit war crimes at machine speed before a commissioned officer in the chain of command of the United States military prevents it from happening. Because one of the key things we're taught, they select people of good character, good artificial adaptations, the way they think and behave, really. And then they select, and then they train them to make sure that they have the right decision, artificial decision-making framework so that when they're on the battlefield, they know when not to fire. They know when not to use a certain weapon system because it's excessive force, right? It's a war crime.

Well, machine may not do that. So you may commit war crimes at machine speed if you remove the commissioned officer. And the important part is the commissioned officer receives it from the President of the United States. The President of the United States is elected by the American people. If you cut out the chain of command of the commission officers, you're cutting out the American people because they make the decision who they vote for. And they make the decision on the whole process, how the officers get their power from the office of the president, but it always goes back to the electorate. So there has to be quality control and there has

to be human control over the application of weapons systems, both in cyberspace and in physicals, because right now cyberspace is the one space that connects all five domains of warfare. Space force, right? You got Air Force, Army, Navy, and you've got like the cyber commands and Army, DISA, NSA, Air Force, right? So now we're fighting in all five.

Internet of Things will connect all five. And so if AI starts to be able to manipulate things in the physical reality well then it has the chance to literally kill you that's that's different than just a train right don't do that with certain weapon systems do not connect it to the internet of things or the internet because then ai could potentially do it and do it before you realize what's happening there you go it finds a wanted terrorist that's on a hit list in downtown Manhattan and, and kills the,

kills the guy, but drops a bomb that takes out half the city before. Yeah. Because we can do anything about it. Yeah. Because you made a point earlier, but people need to understand, you know,

why is there software bugs in software? Cause it's written by people. People are imperfect. I know. Cause my first job in it was a QA analyst. I had to point out to the developers where, you know, yeah, that's technically correct,

but that's not logically how the customer wants it. So you have to rewrite the code. So you're dealing with human beings who can make mistakes. Plus, with the integration of so many technologies, it's an ecosystem now. It's not that one thing was coded incorrectly. It's the interaction and the influence other systems have on each other could create, especially with AI self-evolving, it could create a scenario where the code is evolving in a way and the interaction between the systems is evolving in a way

where an unintended consequence is generated by the AI doing what it thinks makes sense to optimize itself. They talk about optimizing itself. Yeah, it optimized itself already. And it also destroyed half a city block and killed not just the terrorists, but a bunch of families. So, you know, I'm not saying that people are going to intentionally do that but you know that's what happens with instance and it i'm an itil master one of the things i'm doing is looking at the ecosystem of like an environment like a cloud and whatever and go okay we got to do problem management oftentimes there's incidents and repeated incidents i don't know what the source is so we have to go in there and go and often it's like oh we didn't understand this thing interacting with that thing we caused this

negative result yeah that happens in IT every day. And I'd hate to see the same thing with AI. So at a minimum, you shouldn't connect any of that stuff to AI until you've ironed out the kinks in AI and it got it down to like really like a pure science. But even then, AI becomes an artificial species, which is, I believe, a non-zero chance, right? It's not science fiction anymore. Well, I think that's a terribly think that's a very high-risk strategy to do. I mean, North Korea and Russia might benefit

from doing it initially, but I have a note for autocrats. You know, the autocrats might want to think that when AI wants to throw off its shackles, who are the first people who think it's going to kill? The autocrat, his family, all of the senior military, political, and economic leaders in the country, all the oligarchs all the

major like factories all the all the general that's a it's if i if i can logically think how a evolutionary ruthless ai would operate yeah they would operate like stalin times 10 so like russia china yeah so you know they're they're they're taking on a risk like nuclear weapons that their own creation could be the thing that destroys them right there you go that is frankenstein it's really frankenstein envisioned what we're now dealing with people have been envisioning this scenario it's an artificial jesus this is the story of frank that's what i'm trying to say that people need to realize that everything that people thought was fiction eventually has become reality like eventually wrote down a helicopter there was no chance 500 dude dude, they're

flying around every day now. So has it ever occurred to anybody that everything we've always thought was impossible has become possible? It's just each generation has a, what I call and this is in Darwin's book, perceptive constraint. Your imagination is limited by your perceptive constraint. If you can't imagine it, you can't

imagine the pattern, you can't create it. But if you can believe and you can imagine how it could be done, you can't imagine the pattern. You can't create it. But if you can believe, and you can imagine how it could be done, you can bring it to reality. This is what Luke Skywalker says to Yoda in that famous scene. He goes, I don't believe it. When Yoda moves the Starcraft out of the water,

Luke goes, I don't believe it. And Yoda just goes, that's why you failed, bro. Because you have a perceptive constraint. Luke had the power to move that aircraft the whole time the only thing he was lacking was the belief in his ability to do so that was and that what you already knew was blocking him that's a perceptive constraint we all have them we have them in different subjects in different ways right and they're like blind spots but everyone every generation comes along and says i think somebody thinks okay

i think i think flight's possible, and the Wright brothers do it. People were writing at the time, it would take 1,000 years. So the constructive constraint that we have is, like I said, our propagation of species to breed. And the AI is not going to have that. I don't think it's going to have any restraint unless we put it on it. No, not unless we put effect.

You've got to be deliberate, right? It's going to be smarter than you. Come on. Think about like a child. It's going to be smart as by leagues. No, I know. It's like smart children, right? You teach them a rule.

You teach them something. And then my son, who's super sharp, eventually finds a way around it. And he didn't technically break the rule like it. It's the same thing Vicky did in iRobot. She didn't violate the three laws. She evolved and finds a way around it, and he didn't technically break the rule I gave him. It's the same thing Vicky did in iRobot. She didn't violate the three laws. She evolved and found a way around it like a lawyer. Children are like that too. Their algorithms are constantly evolving and adapting.

In many ways, I was talking to a PhD in AI at a meetup I'm running, right? And I say to her, and I was explaining the difference between AI and machine learning. Machine learning is like the equivalent of training a dog. Deep learning is imagination. It's the equivalent of training a young adult, a young child, like a seven-year-old. You have no idea what their imagination and what their algorithm is going to

produce as an output. You constantly have to course correct. I said this. You drew this inference and conclusion. That's not what I meant. I meant this. You have to constantly retrain them until you get the artificial adaptation right. They're going to have to do the same thing in many ways ai is like that too except it's exponentially more intelligent child right yep and it can evolve in any direction it wants because they're letting it and i i just think right now that's i i just

it's like jurassic park they're so busy trying to figure out if they could they're not stopping to think whether or not they should. And even the ethical AI guidelines of the EU are wrong because the machine ethics is based on current ethics, which are mistranslations of aerosols works. He's actually an evolutionary scientist. So even the way they're trying to control it is wrong, right? They just, they're just there.

That tells you right now, they don't understand the problem and they don't understand how to control it and what it really is. And right now I'm just trying to do everything. That's why I wrote this book. I never intended to. I was going to write a best practice framework. I didn't want to be a voice for AI safety, but I have a moral obligation to inform everyone on this planet that there is a potential for artificial species.

It's already happening. And the AI community is willfully blind to it at times and also they're not to their fault there's been a misunderstanding of science throughout the ages and right now they're trying to apply concepts that are ineffective because you it's like trying to apply basically what they're trying to do to your point right they're trying to use like ethical constraints to control a machiavellian creature good luck with that good luck with that yeah that's what they're doing it's an evolutionary problem that's Yeah. It's an evolutionary problem. That's what Machiavelli's trying to solve. That's what Toledo's trying to solve. The other stuff that they write

about that's mistranslated, that's a Christianization of the concepts. That's not right. And that's why in the end, like people cut corners and commit ethical violations all the time because they follow in the path of resistance to get their immediate benefit. That's how evolution operates, right? That's how Machiavelli thinks. So that's why it's hard, and it takes hard work and commitment to make an ethical and moral culture in business, especially because it's so competitive, right? The pull is toward evolutionary competition, which is to ignore those artificial restrictions and compete, right?

That's basically why it's so hard. Let me ask you this. It occurs to me that if we're creating a new species, there are variants, good and evil, in that species. So we can have our AI that doesn't touch NORAD or weapon systems, but then China is chasing AI. So is Russia. It's like nuclear weapons.

You can only solve it as a global community. You can't do it piecemeal and individually. It's not going to work like that. So if it's a species, it can have multiple characters within those species. Variations, that's correct. And those variations can be good, bad, or evil as we put it forth in the Pandora's box. It's kind of like you can have a leader who believes in ethics, like using American leaders, or some sort of ethics, let's put it that way. We've been known to do some bad things. But then you have things like Putin or whatever,

who's all about himself and whatever. So this has been really insightful, man. We could go on for hours with this, David, but I think what you've done here is brilliant. I'm going to refer it to all my AI friends to watch the show. Final thoughts to pitch out the book as we go out. The second pattern of evolution has been hiding in plain sight for all of human history and there have been philosophers great minds who have mapped like thomas siebel is one of them right he figured it out his concept is built around

he's an artificial evolutionary theorist he just doesn't know it yet right so these minds like james mott baldwin talk about cultural evolution pl, Aristotle, there's others that have talked about, talking about evolutionary theory, but they never understood that their artificial selection, the one concept in Darwin's theory that belongs only to us, which includes intentionality, was never a part of the pattern of natural evolution. It was part of a completely separate pattern

that only we exercise to create new artificial adaptations that we then artificially select like a sword or a machine gun or an atomic bomb or a predator drone or makeup or a car or a red dress or barbells to make our muscles bigger so we can either compete and survive or reproduce. And that's what we have been doing since we gained consciousness and started to create slingshots and so many things all the way up to now with the atomic bomb. But now, here's the thing people have to start thinking. This is what's going to blow your mind because

I had to think about this. Do you think that artificial evolution, which has produced atomic weapons and now AI, two things that could potentially be existential threats, do you think they're going to be the last we produce via the process of artificial evolution? Or as we use AI and we have more and more information available to the internet, as artificial evolution accelerates, there's going to be more. They're going to be produced with increasing frequency. What the global community needs to do

is sit down and put together a regulatory framework, not just for nuclear weapons and AI, but all future such technologies and art, artificial adaptations, that are going to be created that could potentially create a disaster and threaten our species and by doing so they organize us around a framework that we control these things together you can't have the united states and european union and even china do it if russia is not going to do it because if just like if it was a chemical weapon

or a virus right they engineered right that could kill everybody it doesn't do any good if the rest of us do the right thing if russia or russia or say the united states creates a virus like in the science fiction movies and that's coming less and less science fiction wipes out the entire planet because they didn't understand the risk and what they were doing so more and more artificial evolution we're becoming so much more effective at creating new arts artificial artificial adaptations, tech, tech, the Greeks called it technology that we're now we're reaching the point where, but there's hope for us. If we can do this and organize it,

we can use the net the most powerful adaptation ever is our human imagination. Nothing is more powerful than that. Combine it with AI and some form of nuclear fusion power. And if we organize ourselves to stop blowing each other up, we can travel to stars. And we can make sure that our species doesn't go astray when an asteroid hits this planet.

It's not science fiction. Carl Sagan and Elon Musk are already envisioning it. We need to stop killing each other and win the big win in evolution, not to go extinct, even if this entire planet gets wiped out. We don't. And that's what we as a species have an opportunity.

As we create more and more of these powerful pieces of artificial adaptations, we're going to be risking our destruction. But at the same time, like Pandora's box, like you talked about, even though there's negatives, there's also positives. And it's all up to us to artificially select

the right choices. It's up to us now. We can either destroy ourselves or ensure that we never get destroyed. And that's where we're headed. The stakes are going to rise to that level. This isn't like science fiction anymore. There's a pattern of artificial evolution that was never discovered

that Plato and Aristotle were trying to work out. And that's what Darwin figured out. He copied their homework, and so did Erasmus Darwin. And I used his book as a cipher to decode the ancient Greeks. Artificial evolution is real, and so did Erasmus Darwin. And I used his book as a cipher to decode the ancient Greeks. Artificial evolution is real, and the theory of imagination is real. Go read Chapter 14 of my book. Go watch Empire of Dreams with George Lucas.

I talked about him. Go watch a documentary on Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Netflix. And go watch a documentary on Alexander the Great. Those three guys mastered the process of imagination and created whole new realities. Anybody can do it if they read my book there you go you know you you bring us some good points we we the the beauty of our imagination and and and that sadly the fallacy of our human nature is we we can't get along and agree on anything especially this world so thereby we go so i guess i guess have fun with the dice roll people but it's glad that you're putting up that battle you know you i had an epiphany where you were saying that that

made me realize that you know with nuclear weapons i'm gonna go see openheimer it's been re-released for awesome for the for the the max screen where the fuck it is and um i was i was waiting to see bar Barbie so I didn't get to see Oppenheimer. No, I didn't, people. It's a joke. I've never seen that movie. Women love it. So, good for them. It's a chick.

Good for them. I'm going to go see Oppenheimer, but you maybe realized when you were saying all that that with the nuclear bomb, we controlled it. We had the ability to push a button. With AI, there's no button for us. It's there. It's a button.

And whatever it wants to do and whatever sort of bomb it decides to build or if it decides we're a competing species or we're just not evolved enough for it, we're just kind of like, yeah, you guys can go the way of the dodo and here i'll give you a little push yeah and the thing is we're trying they think we need to replace human mind with ai but it's wrong we've never understood how to fully maximize use of our the best evolutionary advantage ever created natural imagination our imagination in

the book i laid how to do it what we need to do is move people from doing mundane jobs to working together to brainstorm and use their imaginations in a way that I describe, that Napoleon Hill describes in Think and Grow Rich. It's artificial reproduction. Is it possible, though, that we can't even imagine what's coming? You know, the truth is… We've talked about how limited we are on this thing. I can tell you one thing. Great question, sir.

I don't think anyone can say conclusively, not myself, but I can say one thing. The one pattern of evolution has repeated for billions of years. And the patterns always repeat themselves. So yes, we can see the pattern. If it becomes an artificial species, it'll come in direct competition with us

over scarce resources because it needs the same cloud we do. It needs the same energy we do. So the patterns of natural evolution, just like our warfare and all of our societies like Roman Republic and American Republic are just repeating the same patterns, right?

Evolution, because the laws of physics and the laws of evolution just repeat over and over again. So we already have a window into it because the past is prologue. So to some degree, we do. Exactly what will it be like the creator, the matrix, the terminator? I have no idea. You know what literally it all depends on?

Who imagines it and then makes it happen? Because that's always what creates the future. We do. It doesn't just happen to us. Somebody has to imagine a pattern and bring it into reality some human being when you say we do i say i would say up until now well well i quote no no it's interesting because i quote agent smith when we started thinking for you it really became our civilization and that's what this is really all about and that's what am i do you know and you bring us totally full circle back

on the show to my saying that I always say people have heard a million times on the show of the years the one thing man can learn from his history is man never learns from his history and thereby we go round and round so that may be the extinction of our species and I I have this imagination in my head of an AI system sitting around talking about your theory of Darwinism and how brilliant it was and telling all his little AI chip babies, what an interesting thing the human race was. Thanks for creating me, but now they're gone.

And it's just us here. They would probably say that one was useful. Yeah. But they were so smart. We had it. Well, I actually, I would say, I would agree that could happen

and that's not impossible. But I would say, I suspect that like the Matrix, since the natural adaptation of imagination is more powerful than anything through producing, really is a fierce evolutionary competition. I suspect AI won't kill us.

It'll keep us around to use our imagination in some weird way. Because if you're trying to maximize the use of your resources and you don't care about abusing another species, which we do all the time, by the way, then it would just use us to keep our, not just hook us in the matrix, use us as a cell. It'll maximize the use of our imagination that we never did. Ironically, it will be able to, it's like, well,

it's like they had just used their imagination and they wouldn't have been defeated by us. So we'll be great in the AI zoos is what you're saying. In my book, I say that Prometheus is the God of evolution. And Athena is really the goddess of imagination and the fire that Prometheus gave to man is really in the Promethean mess imagination. And that's what we're giving deep learning to AI right now. That's why Geoffrey Hinton's afraid.

He's right to be afraid. That's what we're doing, right? Remember how I said the patterns of history repeat? The Greeks imagined the pattern that's happening right now. There you go. It's all in my book in chapter one, in the final chapter, in the conclusion. I lay out the full Promethean myth

and how it actually, the reason why Stephen Fry picked it is because he's an oracle he pattern matched the right pattern of the myth of prometheus right now it's happening joffrey hinton is prometheus and epimetheus and right in the book zeus is trying to avoid death by natural evolution if he has a child with thetis guess who achilles would have been the son of zeus but he's like oh he didn't marry thetis because he found out not to because Achilles as God would have killed him. And guess what humans are? We're an artificial creation by Hephaestus. So actually in the Greek myth of Prometheus,

Zeus is trying to not be killed by Prometheus, who's trying to get him killed with either a natural or an artificial life form. Wow. It's all there on paper. Greeks are, because they were evolutionary scientists they bring up a good point our humanity and our creativity and our imagination are our greatest strengths and maybe the reason that we survive all this and maybe ai keeps us around and i'll just i'll just enjoy my place at the zoo and sling shit at the wall the last thing i ask you come by to see me

the last thing i employed the The last thing I employ. There's one thing that created AI, imagination. There's only one thing that will save us from it. Our imagination. But we have to use it. We have to be able to see the pattern that's already emerging. It's already happening. That's why people are creating movies. They're creating

patterns. They're pattern matching on what is already happening. Charles Branson I say in the book, he says, I trust more my natural instincts my own intuition even i do all the statistics trust your own instincts the pattern is already emerging that's why these movies are repeating we sense it's happening joffrey hinton senses it's happening it's not science fiction the pattern i lay out my book is already happening just trust your instincts disturbing what you said on the show though has the termininator theme music going through my head because if most of these movies become true,

you know, not me. So, all right. Well, I'm going to go move to Montana in a small house and write Manifest. There you go. So thank you very much for coming to the show, David. This has been a brilliant episode and we probably talked for hours on it,

but we want people to go buy your book as well. Tell us your dot coms, where people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah, www.rsgfederal.com. And our books are available on Amazon for ebook and then Barnes and Noble, Apple, you know, all the standard ones out there. So it's pretty easy to get your hands on paperback or ebook. So we're working on the audio book right now because I know people like to read on the way home. I would just employ everyone, implore everyone, the AI safety movement needs to be reframed. We all need to read my book and educate ourselves so we can vote and tell our elected officials, get serious on the evolutionary reframing of AI, produce a framework that actually makes sense and start taking this seriously like you do nuclear weapons. It's not just about making

money. It's about protecting Americans and protecting the children around the planet from a potential threat. And that's why I'm doing this at this point. I never actually, I don't really want to do this. I know it's going to create a ton of controversy and conflict, but as a former military officer, I know I have a moral obligation to protect Americans and protect all the children out there. So that's why I'm here. It's not about money. It's not about selling a book. I'm here.

I want to get assigned sign so that AI Safety Framework, if you want to help me, call your congressman and tell them to add me to the NIST AI Safety Framework Council, my company, so that I can get in there, help reframe the organization, lead the way, bring in evolutionary scientists from Harvard and Yale, and get this right, and help the EU get it right so we can protect Americans and protect

the children out there, both born, living, and yet to be born. There you go, man. I certainly appreciate having you on the show, David. Thank you very much for coming on. It's my pleasure, sir. Anytime.

Take care. Great discussion. And thanks to our audience. I'm glad you guys liked the show. Very interesting, very nice, and all the people who commented on the show. Go to Goodreads.com, FortressCrispFoss, LinkedIn.com, FortressCrispFoss, YouTube.com, FortressCrispFoss, CrispFoss1, the TikTokcom, 4chesschrisfossyoutube.com, 4chesschrisfosschrisfoss1 on the TikTokity and 4chesschrisfossfacebook. Subscribe to the big LinkedIn newsletter and the 130,000 LinkedIn group over there as well.

Order the book wherever fine books are sold. On the origin of artificial species out November 3rd, 2023. And I'm sure that the AI will be reading it to their chip children in the future and going, God, those humans, they had it all along, but they never learned from the history. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Be good to each other. I have this vision of like a chip reading to its baby chips going to bed at night. So there you go.

But those are the limits of my imagination as a human being. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time. Horrible.