The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – On The Road Again: A Truck Driver’s Highway to National Trial Law and Business Success by Albert Parnell

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

On The Road Again: A Truck Driver’s Highway to National Trial Law and Business Success by Albert Parnell https://www.amazon.com/Road-Again-Albert-Parnell/dp/B0DBSGWQ35 Eighty-two years ago, in a small apartment in Alexandria, Virginia, a boy with big dreams was born. In this wild but true story of a street-smart kid looking for opportunities amid a WWII-torn America, On the Road Again shows what perseverance, risk, and ingenuity can accomplish even when the deck is stacked against you. It demonstrates a powerful theology that self-belief and determination can overcome incredible and defying obstacles. Albert Parnell’s engaging memoir tells the incredible story of how a high school party boy rose to become a nationally recognized toxic tort, asbestos defense trial lawyer, having graduated last in his high school class, and how an odyssey of odd jobs and big breaks led to a maverick in the making–from tractor-trailer truck driver to pool shark to civil rights activist to Atlanta bookie to Las Vegas “high-stakes” poker player to restauranter to national lecturer to Tik Tok social media mentor. Travel back in time and see how this fun-loving, forever party boy from nowhere grew to own every bar and courtroom he entered, building an empire that existed everywhere.

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Welcome the big show, as always, folks, for 16 years, 2,800 episodes who are bringing the Chris Voss show, 48 new shows a month, one of the oldest living, surviving, active podcasts in the world, or at least recording, multiple times a day. Let's put it that way. I think we're the only one is doing three shows today because we're crazy and we love our audience that much. We're willing to do it whatever it takes for them, but don't ask me to do four every down and then I do four. So anyway, guys, go to goodreach.com, Fortresschristch, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortressch, Chris Foss,

YouTube.com, for Chess Chris Foss, and all those crazy places in the internet. In fact, we have someone on here who's popular on TikTok, so I'll throw mine in. He's more popular than I am. Chris Foss won on the TikTokity. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinion. opinions of the host or the Chris Faw Show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. So anyway, an amazing young man on the show. We're talking about his insights, his books, his life story, his journey. You're going to learn stuff. And it's going to be good. So stay tuned. Turn off everything and just put on your earmuffs and focus on the sound. His book is entitled, On the Road Again, A Truck Driver's Highway to National Trial Law and Business Success out February 28. 2025, Albert Parnell joins us on the show. Today we're going to be talking to him about on the road again. Isn't there a song? Should I play for that if I did?

Nelson. What's that? Willie Nelson, of course. Willie Nelson. There we go. Does that make it so that since I said the line, I don't have to pay the fee? You know, I have to pay no fee. Party folks too. Yes. Did Pat McAfee write your introduction? Who? Pat McAffey? Yeah. It sounded like it's pretty funny. try we try i know i wrote the induction and had a really great radio dj on fiber do it because oh did you yeah because we're rich five dollars is five dollars i was a radio i was a radio dj once were yeah all right we're gonna have fun on the show kvitaa the voice of the white river valley hey there you got the voice of the river so albert parnell you heard him he's in the background

he his life has been surprising adventurous and deeply rewarding unlike mine mine's been and just agony. At the center of his story is the value he learned from his father a commitment to provide his family with unwavering love, dedication, and support through his life. He was focused on giving his wife and children every opportunity to pursue their own pass with independence, generosity, and vision. His journey began early, working at age eight, and followed unlikely and colorful path, include driving a trailer, tractor, teaching high school, singing in bars, and working as a radio DJ. There we have it. Eventually, he discovered his client as a lawyer doing civil rights work in Atlanta during the late 1960s.

And in his very first jury trial, he won a moment that sparked a lifelong pursuit to become an outstanding trial lawyer. Over the next several decades, he built a nationally respected career as a defense trial attorney. He served his first chair trial lawyer in more than 300 cases across the more than 30 states and act as a national council for several Fortune 5. 500 companies known for creative trial strategies and compelling courtroom presentations. He helped guide the successful resolution of thousands of complex civil and toxic tort cases.

Albert Parnell, get up in the jury booth or get up in the witness booth and let's hear what you have to say there, buddy. I just got sworn in. Sworn in. We got him sworn in there, bailiff. Yeah, we do. No one knew we had a bailiff on the show. So Albert, give us your dot com.

So where can people find you on? the interwhips. My dot com is www. alparnel.com. You know, they find me at success by Parnell on TikTok. So give us a 30,000 over you. What's in this book that you have on the road again? Mostly it's a book that I wrote since I was gone so long trying cases. My children, grandchildren don't really know the particulars of where I came from, what I did, how I got there. And then second part is I grew up pretty much kind of list, had loving parents, but not a lot of money. And overcame a lot of obstacles. And I'm still there trying to help other people overcome those same obstacles and hope that the book will help some people if they read it to see that there's a way to the end.

But I did the joke, oh, that's unfortunate. I meant when you said you had loving parents, I said that was unfortunate. That's what that joke was bad. You got the poor as I was executing the joke. They're like, God, Chris hates poor people. Now, you wanted to have your family, you understand what you did and all the work and love you did for him and sacrifice and stuff. Do they have to read the book to make sure they get in the will? Do you have one of those things going on?

No, oh, no, my kids, I think we're pretty sure about that they're loved. And as a matter of fact, unlike most people, every bit of investment which I have, my kids get copies of it. My wife gets a copy of it. The one thing I'm pretty sure about is that they will not fight when it's all. Oh, that's always good. You can put in one of those non-fight clauses you probably know about as an attorney, where if they fight, then no one gets anything. I'm going to say, fortunately, you know, again, through both my wives, because I wasn't there a lot, but I have two lawyers and a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army Jack for one of them and an executive at Truis Bank, so I don't really

worry about them going forward. That sounds like you got them launched really good there. So tell us a little bit. Let's kind of start from the beginning. You started working when you're eight. I started working. I was like, I think 10 or 11. And of course, before that, I was mowing lawns for money. I think that's when I got a paper route. It's what at 10, I think. And then, so you started working early. Tell us about this. And what was the proponent that kind of built this work ethic that you put into your whole life? You know, in 1948, because it was born in 41, there are no news. You don't know about anything about life and you really don't know a lot about money. I lived in what you probably call a project now. And I came in one summer day and said, my friend Buddy has a baseball bat.

I need that a bat. Dad said, I can't afford it. And I said, but I need the bat. He said, then tomorrow we're going to get up. This was in Alexandria, Virginia. And after school, we're going to knock on every business store and get you a job. And we went by Adelcatessen at the corner of down on Washington Street in Alexandria. And the guy looked at me and said, how old are you? And I told him, So I never hired you by that age. What can you do? And I said, anything you tell me. And so then it became 48 hours a week at $0.9 an hour.

Wow. $0.9.00. Dude. Exactly right. But that was a lot of money back then. Oh, yeah. I remember back then, not back to your time when it came to pricing and stuff. But like in the 70s, you know, you can buy like a, you can buy a snickers for 10 cents or 15 cents.

And I was in the store, actually last night, headed the gym. And I just wanted a candy bar for the sugar. they're like all three bucks three bucks and something for the candy bar i'm just like right these are 25 cents maybe mex but i don't know we sound like one of those two old people that stand on the lawn and yell at the kids to get off it so it's a story to tell because i'm sure you had a similar experience there were every in the summer there were five guys and four girls we got on our bikes at nine o'clock we would we would go sometimes 50 or 20 miles away there are no cell phones your parents didn't know where you were going and

You just had me back by five. My parents didn't care. I was Gen X. We're the latchkey kids. They actually had to make a commercial during our childhood for people that was like a PSA that said, Hey, you know, it's 10 o'clock at night. Do you know where your kids are? They haven't been home for three days.

You know, our parents are sitting there with Kent's cigarettes, menthols, and bottles of age whiskey and I don't know, Papp's Blue Ribbon or something. And they're like, we have kids. And they're like, yeah, I think we got some kids. They're out there somewhere. I don't know. I know mom and dad always used to wonder where I was. Did they?

For whatever reason, they never asked. Huh. Yeah. My parents would ask, and we'd be like, I don't think legally our attorneys have said that we can tell you what we're up to. In fact, when I wrote my book Beacon's leadership, my mom read some of it. And she goes, I did not know that was going on in high school. And I'm like, well, I didn't. You know, most people today, when I went to high school in 1955, there were 10 fraternities and 20 sororities, and they had parties every Friday and Saturday night.

Yeah. And mostly, look, high school parties like that. And it was an everyday occurrence. Oh, yeah, those are the best, man. Yeah, the best. They can't do that anymore. Anything that's fun is illegal now, I think, pretty much. We didn't have ID cards when you were 14 in Washington.

Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, we were building forts and we go wander through like empty. buildings that were being built and shenanigans and, I mean, it was a crazy time, but it was an interesting time to grow up. And, you know, we had to be outside and, right. Yeah, yeah, you learned things. I think one of the funny, go ahead, one of the fun of stories is in the old days at my place, there were 52 families and at 6 o'clock on a nice night, everybody out there talking. And then in 1959, someone got a television, invited everybody over, everybody at television, and after that time, nobody ever came outside to talk.

Hmm. There you go. I say that television now, it's the phones. You know, everyone's just walking around. Phone zombies, I call them. So when starting work at 8, what was some of the things you learned? What did that do for you at 8? The first thing I think I did was independence because here I am. I had, I could go buy Coca-Cola and my buddies couldn't go do that.

And there was a sense that that stuck me apart. It made them bully me a little bit because I had the money and they didn't. So the first thing I think was independent. And I think as you began to get independence, you could rely upon that independence to accept some risks that you might not otherwise take. And I've always believed that you, I won't say always believe, but I've become in my teaching, which I do in belief that if you don't risk, you can't ever move forward. You have to risk, yes, you have to make those risks be reasonable.

And I think so going back to your question, once I was beginning to understand have independence, have some money to do some things, I think it gave me a will to do even more. Yeah. The will to do more. You know, it's kind of interesting. You learn pride for your work, I think, at that age. Oh, absolutely. You have resilience.

It teaches you a lot of things. And it's hard, too, because you're a kid. I remember when I had my paper out at 10, I was like, I don't want to go to work, you know. Sometimes I would mow the front lawn of a house, and I'd just be too tired to mow the back. I tell my client, you know, hey, I'm going to come back tomorrow and get the other side here. Well, I think that I had paper rights as well. Sometimes I was doing two jobs. But the other thing I was saying, I'm sure you believe it, that you learned a little bit of politeness.

You learned a little bit about how to be social with people. As you were meeting those people in Alexandria, they built something called Hunting Towers, which was like back in 1949 would have been like a Ritz Carlton today. And so the people that you were meeting, they had nice clothes. I didn't have nice clothes, but you had to be polite. You had to learn how to be polite and be social. Yeah. It was hard knocking on doors to offer to pitch lawnmowering services.

Absolutely. You're like this tiny thing. And, you know, big scary adult opens the door. And a lot of times, sometimes they weren't nice. You know, they'd be mean to you. You know, it was the 80s. You know, some people weren't really happy during that time. Big surprise.

But, yeah, you kind of gave you some gumption. and, you know, sometimes a lot of people will be cool with me. And yeah, you learned, you learned a lot of early skills that some people don't learn to adulthood or nowadays. I don't know, millennials and Gen Z doesn't learn until 35 or something. I told me, I totally agree with you. I've seen some things. So there was a lesson your father gave you and shaped you. Tell us about that.

When did that fall upon you and you took that to heart? I just think, I'm not sure which one of the ones you're talking about are referencing. That's right. Probably lots of you taught you. Your father gave you a simple rule. Your job in life is to support your family with love, loyalty, and effort. Absolutely. And, you know, it took me a while, honestly, to realize that that's what I had to do.

Because when I was doing civil rights work, I gained a lot of money, yes, I was a lawyer. But I divorced from my first wife, who was wonderful, Francis, and had two boys. And I had to actually go back and look and dad, reinful. forced to me that my job from that point forward was to, you know, take care of two young kids and my family and now had an ex-wife. So I did three things, which most people don't understand. The first thing is I swore I would never turn the television on again. The rest of my life. Really? I would never read newspaper and I would not, and I would not listen to radio. And now you're on TikTok. Basically, from 1974 to 2020, I did not. And it does things.

That, geez. So I can't play trivia. Not a good trivia person. I mean, you know, but you focus on your work, your family. You know, as we were talking pre-show, you know, you had to spend a lot of time away from your family because you were stuck in courts around the nation and, you know, working hard, getting money for them and paying for those school bills and all that stuff. But, you know, it's hard when you don't have your dad around sometimes. And you're like, is he really working somewhere? Like I sent my kids to military school and fake my death and moved to a different time zone. so they can never find me.

So they're in Wonderment, too. Yeah, where's dad? I'm that guy who left for milk and never came back. I don't have kids, folks. That's the joke. But so that's really interesting you took and did that. Man, we need to have more people do that in today's world. For me, it was a little bit different.

I mean, yes, if my daughter or my son wanted to go to a movie, that would be the exception I'd make. But if you're going to go, let's just say, to watch a movie for four hours, and back then, if I could bill $75 an hour for those four hours, and give that to support the family, then I made the decision that I'd billed those $75,000 an hour for four hours. And so I just, you know, I got to a point where I would work 2,500, 3,000 hours a year as a lawyer. Ah. Now, one of the things, did we get a plug in for your TikTok at the beginning of the show and asked for plugs?

We did. We did. We just gave the title of it. I just think it's funny. You turned off TV for all those years, probably saving it up for all the brain cells you'll lose on TikTok, maybe. I don't know. IT is. No, actually, I was in one of my head chairs bar called Collidoscope here in Brook Haven, Georgia.

And a young girl came up to me and she said, I hear that you help people start businesses and I want to start a social media company. Will you teach me how? And I said, I certainly try. We started a social media company at the end of 2020. And she said, you should be, you know, you've lectured all over the world and you should be on TikTok lecturing. And that's how I got there. Wow. And so you lectured on top of it.

Now, somewhere in there, let's see if we can get the timeline down, lay a foundation for it. So somewhere in there, you decide to go into trucking from some of the early things you were doing at work. What was the problem at there? How did that start? I'll tell you what it was. Because I was working two jobs all through high school and pretty much a party boy. I graduated last in my high school. And so consequently, I had a job as a lifeguard, which I didn't like.

And I had a friend who was doing what he called humping, not that, humping, carrying furniture in and out of houses. Humping over the back. He was making more money than me. So I left and did that for a week. And they didn't pay. I've worked 100 hours that week and they didn't pay overtime. What?

Yeah. We're talking 1959 now. Oh, that's true. Yeah. And I went to the only place that paid overtime, which was Paxton van lines. And they said, we're only hiring a tractor trailer driver. And I said, I can do that. Of course, I was lying.

And I never really did one. And they gave me a job as a tractor trailer driver. And, you know, civil rights back then. We're, you know, we're 59. And here I am a 17-year-old white boy, getting a tractor trailer with two black gentlemen. And the guy beside me, he said, white boy, you don't know how to do this, do you? And I said, no, but I need a job just like you. Will you teach me?

And he said, okay. So he taught. So then three days. days later, I was 17 years old driving a 40-foot tractor trailer from Washington, D.C. to Northport, Long Island. Oh, wow. And what made you want

to go into that? I mean, what was the proponent? Does it just opportunity? Oh, the money. It was the money. Chasing the money. Getting overtime. It was not so many times since an hour, but I was getting over time. Yeah. And driving your truck, you're kind of your own

boss. You don't have somebody up in your face, you know, eight hours a day, maybe. Oh, well, breaker, breaker, one-nine. Yeah. Those are back in the days. the old C.Bs and stuff, huh? Absolutely. Oh, God, I love this. Absolutely. Very nice.

My grandfather had, he used to be a trucker back in the days, and he used to tell me all these great stories. Back then, you could drive through Las Vegas and stop for Blackjack downtown. And he's, I could always come out ahead. You know, back then, you only had one, yellow, one deck blackjack, so, you know, you couldn't get cheated too much. Las Vegas was my city from 1740. Was it really?

Do you think? I told you, I had to become earning money, so I became a bookie. Oh, wow. And I started playing high-stakes poker in Vegas every other week. Uh-huh. And as I went through my law career and got better and better, my bookie operation got bigger and bigger. And then the mafia in 82 told me that perhaps I should not do it any longer.

Ah. Now you were attorney at the same time when you're running a bookie? I was. I was. You know, you could do it back then. At first I said, I don't, because I was giving all my money away, you know, to my first wife and all that sort of thing. And originally I was going to, you know, you said I wanted to be a singer.

I got the music business with the man named Alex Cooley, who was a big rock promoter. And so we worked with the almond brothers beginning in 71. And I was going to actually leave in 74 and go into the rock music business. But the money I'd saved up to be with Alex to start, I gave to my first wife in the divorce. And that's when I had to go to other things. So back in this is my day, when the Atlantic Journal Constitution put the line in the paper every day of the week, then if you were a lawyer at that point, you could call my secretary and she could take your bet. But it couldn't be more than $50 because I wouldn't, then it got bigger and bigger. That's a way around everything.

So it's about, remember when I talked about risk when you were driving, doing my bicycle? Uh-huh. That was just another risk. Oh, wow. That is wild. And the Boblin onion. Have you been back to Vegas recently and seen how it's grown? I have. I did a non-revel seminar for a bunch of, for a lawyer company, beginning in 83.

So the first thing I did, Chris, was I started a seminar on the first Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of March Madness in 1983. So I was actually at every March Madness in Vegas, from 1983 to 2014. Wow. So I've seen a change a lot. Yeah. It's grown. It has like crazy. Crazy, man.

Like I saw a map one time with like the 80s. And it was like, I think even in the 90s, it was like two lanes going on in the middle of the valley. Oh, absolutely. Freeway. And I was like, what? I remember the old spaghetti bowl. Uh-huh. You go through downtown to, you know, do the.

roundabout and yeah it's crazy how it's grown i remember i first moved out to summerland when it was barely it was all just land you drive out there and fall off the field of earth and there's so gas stations there was like a bank there and i you know i'd have to wander over to the new apartments that were built and and i'm just like i'm out here i think we had wolves beyond i mean i was at the very end of the the row there but oh it's crazy how long do you do you go ahead don't just say you know, the desert end, which no longer exists, was there. I remember when they tore down, I can remember the name of it, to build the big ponds and everything.

So it's all changed. The wind? It started, yeah. Yeah. I think, what was it before that? I remember there was that game that Steve Wynn played to get a, he bought this piece that he option to, that was next to the Caesar property.

And he's, I want to build a casino here unless you'd give me some money. And so they paid him off, like, some huge amount of money. So they get that piece. And then he just built next door across the freeway. Of course. Absolutely. Thanks for the money, guys. I built your competitor on my way.

And that was a beautiful place, too. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's still, I still, it's still my favorite casino to take people to if they want to visit. Oh, yeah. I mean, those gardens that are in the back. Oh, God, they're awesome. Those are so awesome. Yeah.

And people love them. You know, back in the day, they paid a million dollars a month to redo all of the decorations back there. I think they do it every month or three months now. I think they do every three months now, maybe. I don't know. But then there's a chocolate fountain right behind the gardens. I don't know if you've ever seen that.

Yeah, I have. Yeah, yeah. And it has, I think it's like a ton or two tons of chocolate that flow through it. So I always take my mom there and anybody that visits, who's especially women. They love the chocolate place. And then they love standing in front of, you know, the chocolate fountain just pouring down. It's just insane. I'm just like.

Do you remember olives, which was the, original restaurant in there that overlooked the water factor? I think so. I went to the opening in 1998. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We might have seen each other. We might have.

We were probably hanging around throwing her money away in a pinball machine. No, I stopped. When the mafia told me to stop in 82, I stopped. That's probably a good thing. They were still running on mob until. Oh, absolutely. 94. And I was up in New York during that period of time, too, you know, which is the

John Gotti era. So it's, John Gotti. So back to trucking. My audience is right now going, I think you said to a book about trucking, Chris. This is the gambling show now. So how long were you a trucker before you said, you know, I may want to expand my income here? I will tell you exactly. I'd been a trucker for about a month and a half.

I was talking to these two dudes that I thought ran the world as tractor-trailer drivers. And I said, what are you all doing about retirement? And one of them was, Wally said, why would we? We were only 19. And I took one look there, and I went to the owner. I said, do you think I can go to college? And he said, I'll help you get in. So I entered college. I still drove the tractor trailer. But I went through college in that tractor trailer and then law school at Vanderbilt in that tractor trail. Wow. So you're studying in the trailer between drives and lot lizards? Sort of. I mean, I would, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

The owner of Paxson worked with me. So when I was in law school, whenever there was a job, you know, because I was in Asheville, I'd do Thanksgiving, I'd do Christmas, I'd do spring, and then I'd do all summer. So now, I think you started out in civil rights. Do I have that correct or understand that? Absolutely. What drew you to that? I started, what drew me to them was back when I was seven years old, across the street from

our white apartment community. There was a duplex with black children. children. And I was the only one who actually, white guy who played with the black children, my favorite being Alberta. When I was seven years old, I went across the street to tell Alberta that we could walk to school together. And she said, we're not going the same school. And I said, what are you talking about? She said, you're white and black. And that began my pivot through all of that. And then when I was driving the tractor, you know, the tractor trailer, a lot of the employees were black, and they'd never had a friend who was going to college in the law school,

so I started sort of representing them within the trucking industry. And so that's how I ultimately got there, and I did civil rights when I was in Vanderbilt. Defend those folks, and, you know, the great thing about law is, number one, it's given to us by the Constitution. We used to have it. It's really cool. I hope we do. If you're watching this 10 years or now, you and me, and law is an interesting thing. It's a wonderful thing. It's if I could go back, I mean, I started my first company 18, so I kind of threw myself right into the shit.

But if I could go back, I would go to school to be an attorney because I love law. And just, I don't know, the power of it is so amazing. It is amazing. And for me, I mean, I literally loved it. I fell in love with not the law because I need you to just think for a moment. A person who is a trial lawyer is not a lawyer. When you walk into that room, just like you trying behind that microphone to convince people that you can't see about something, every time I walk in, I'm an actor. I'm putting together a script just like any kind of playwright does that I hope 12 people will follow.

And, you know, yes, I'm a lawyer, but the reality is I'm an egotistical lecturer, whatever you want to call. Who enjoys being in front of people. and therefore trying to convince them every day of the belief that I have. Yeah, yeah. You know what I found. You know what I found helps of that, blackmail. No, I'm just kidding. Blackmail a jury, that's illegal.

But I just figured it would be a good joke. You know, I remember, so I, let me try and keep this story concise. So I had this, I had some evil attorney friends. They taught me something very important to always appeal everything, even speeding tickets. And I had a BMW with 540. when it first came out and had the seven series engine in the five body and boy did i rack up some speeding tickets they taught me how to fight speeding tickets and you know defend my rights and mine was the original six series the six series yeah that's beautiful two doors no four yeah i love it i always wanted

those because i've been sick all my life i'd rather have a two door and so i remember i was a i was a there was a case that I had where I got and pulled over, the guy was an undercover, what was it, an undercover driver's license division guy. For some reason, I guess they're technically cops. And he was in his private car with his wife, probably going up to dinner or Friday night. I blew by him speeding, clearly. And he, as soon as I passed, flipped on his lights and undercover, whatever, and pulled me over. Then he claimed in court that he had paced me for several miles and then turned on his lights. So he knew my speed. She, his wife was in the car as a witness. And so I was a gas that he lied. Now, I was speeding, but his, you know, the, the discreposition, whatever,

discrepancy was, you know, how fast was it actually going. And if you, you know, I know the laws. If you, if you haven't, you know, geared that, that speed gun, you haven't calibrated it and maintained it and all that sort of stuff, it can air. You know, I'm like, you know, if there's There's enough of a, what's that thing? What's the thing along that you guys use where it has to be undeniable sort of fact or proven facts? I forget what it's called. Like probable cause you mean? No.

When a jury decide something, you have to decide that there's enough reasonable evidence that's been provided to claim the case. So I asked this beautiful black lady, very, she was not going to put it with shit from anybody. And I asked for, I wanted the wife as a witness. that he had not done when he testified, that he had paced me. And, boy, he was not happy about that. He was very angry, probably because he knew his wife would probably tell the truth. And so I called her as a witness and asked for a subpoena. And I remember the judge, the judge looked at me when she decided between the argument,

she goes, she goes, Chris, I want to tell you something. There was probably a time in your youth where you had this cute face that could lie and get away with stuff. she says but that time is long gone and I believe that you are probably speeding but I tell you I'm granting your motion because you are doing what more people need to do you are using rights in the Constitution you're using your rights in the law

and while I do believe that you're probably speeding you know I'm going to give you the opportunity to defend yourself and she talked to the court too the people in the court and she says you know more people need to utilize their rights and defend their rights in court. So, yeah, it was kind of funny. I totally agree.

She's like, that cute face of your is gone, Chris. It's like the eagle's lying eyes are gone. Oh, yeah, yeah. She let me know, and I was not going to screw with her because she was one of those big ladies that would kick your ass. She'd probably throw me in prison. You spend a lot of time kind of in the trucking field through your attorney career. Is that correct?

You know, once I got into the trial-law stuff, civil rights, but after I left that, I did some trucking work, but mostly beginning in 75 and a little bit after that, I began defending asbestos lawsuits. Oh, really? Or at the beginning of that. And so the more I did, the more I got offered to do it. So it became my specialty. And so from then until 2018 or 2019, that's pretty much what I did. Wow. That's got to be some interesting work on abestas. It was amazing how much that stuff was like everywhere. It was everywhere and it's really surprising. I've got some of my coffee right now.

For a defense lawyer and one of my best friends was the plaintiff's lawyer that I was always against, we became best friends. But you know, it's just funny because the disease that most of them got, mesothelioma, was a disease that was caused by asbestos. But the question was it your asbestos or somebody else's asbestos? Oh, wow. So let me give you a one. One example, John, it was like from a lung cancer cigarette thing.

If you defended Marlborough and the guy said he smoked one Marlboro in his life, but he smoked five million Philip Morris, da, da, da, da, then you would argue that that one cigarette didn't cause it, right? Ah. So if he only used your product one day or two days, but he used another product for 30 years, you'll argue you're two, you're treated, your two days didn't cost it. Ah. Yeah, I mean, asbestos was everywhere back then. It was in like a building. Oh, absolutely. I think it was in all my grandparents,

roofs, remember the old popcorn roofs with the sparklies in him? Not just that. It was in every refinery, every had it all over the place, air conditioning, everything. Yeah, yeah. I still, I still smoke a bowl of Abbasis just to, I don't know, just for old timesakes. Just for old times since, you know. Get that, get that. The weed of your day.

The weed of your day. You know, you scrape a little bit off of my grandparents still remember that. We would be like, what does this stuff need of? And we scraped some off one time and fell on us. that in the time my dad my grandfather had a scrape down by hand as children the lead paint off of his garage

so he could bring in it. That was cute. That was cool. I look back on that and like, this explains why I have a podcast and you're a lawyer. Where did you grow up if I might ask? I grew up in California

and then moved to Utah, I guess it's some form of punishment that some people my parents did or something. I think they just mixed drugs, you know, it was the 60s. I think they mixed a lot of drugs one night

and they woke up. And those are the only two reasons I can come up with why anyone would want them to Utah. If they would have, it was in Northern California, certainly. California is good. Oh, I know. I had a lot of cases out there.

I'll bet. I won't get into it, but I had the first drug case. Oh, really? You know, yeah, 81. You said go to the trivador all the time in L.A. When I wanted to be a singer, yeah. Oh. You wanted to be a singer, too.

I think I read that in your bio. I did. I went to school with the Mama Cass. and Jim Morrison. Oh, really? They were in my high school. Hopefully he didn't do the same drugs as Jim did, because... I was never a drug per.

I had a hard time getting rid of alcohol, but I never did drugs. But vodka is my nightly 7 o'clock drink of choice. But yeah, so we would go over to M Street and try to sing. Back then you just didn't have speakers, you just had an acoustic guitar, and you did the best you could. But, no, I didn't make it as a singer. Yeah. Plus, if you're doing follow-up on Jim Morrison, you know, you're following a follow-up on. that act.

That's got to be, you're like, what did he do? He took his clothes off and danced for him. He was always getting arrested all the time back today. I mean, he wasn't doing anything nobody does now, but I think even else was arrested for gyrating his hips or something, didn't he?

I think that was Elvis. Yeah, suggestively gyrating your hips. Can you imagine if they had Instagram back then, boy, they were. Oh, my God. Kind of woke up quick. Instagram is getting more. than ever before. Let's put it that way. Yeah, it's a dating out pretty much at this point.

That are an only fan's entrance lead in. So you win your first jury trial and that's pretty good. You win the first one out the gate. Is that correct? I did. I've actually, in all the case, I tried a loss too. Really? Yeah. What's the key to that? Again, I think being a good actor, I think, you have to know your case. You have to know your witnesses and all that sort of thing. But you have to be able to read a jury. And the other thing I, did. I was one of the first to ever do this is I started doing it in 1968. I hired a psychologist to go with me to help me select jurors. And I did that in my career. And because I relied upon them to be able to, after your questioning a prospective juror, the answers, they're evaluating

the answers and they can help you try to figure out who can believe you, who's looking at your body language and liking it, things like that. Very subjective. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of weirdness as to why people decide things sometimes. Yeah, when you stop and think about it, when you stop, you have to train if you're a trial lawyer. For instance, if you're going to try to get a jury in Miami as an example, then, you know, you're going to get a Latin-Latin influence people. But if you're in Oakland, you're going to get more with the Philippine background than you've ever imagined. Oh, really? Yeah, or if you're in Texas, you're going to, so my point is you have to really study.

the demographics of every place where you're going to try a case to sue who your likely jars are going to be and what their cultural background is. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, I imagine you, you know, and you were one of the first people to do that, do the psychology thing on it. As far as I know, I mean, that and to use a computer, I bought a computer in 79, and I remember lecturing to about 400 lawyers in Washington, D.C. in 1981, marry a computer

and save your life. Mary a computer and save your life. I think that's what I did. That's why... An old tandy computer. Old tandy. Remember those tandys? Didn't tandy before that computer?

Didn't they used to be a leather thing? I have no idea. I have no idea. Maybe that's a different leather company. I had leather, you know, they taught us a lot in school, the important things that we're going to use for the future, right? We had to learn metal shop, leather shop, and wood shop. Because God knows I needed those.

skills. We had, and we had to learn printing. In our high school, we had a printing. Oh, printing. Yeah. I bought some of those early computers and printers and, yeah, learning printing was, it was probably a whole college course in of itself, because half the time the damn thing wouldn't work or pair or whatever, how was going on, you know, there, it's got paper stuck in and you're like, I cleaned all the paper out. No, it's still stuck. Oh, my God. So, yeah, I had, I had quite a few. In the office, I had a baseball bat, and I had quite a few rip it out of the wall, throwing the ground and beat it to death with a baseball bat like that office space movie scene. I did that quite a few times in front of horrified employees until my partners took me aside and said, we need to get you some help. Maybe it was the same kind of baseball bat that I wanted back in 1948 that I would get the job for. Might have been. Did you put rusted spikes through it so the blood would stick better? No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah. What do you hope people come away with when they read about your book, your life, and all that good stuff? Or is it really just for your kids to guilt and shame them as to all the heavy work you did for him? No, it really isn't guilt and shame. I think that there's a few more other things. I think from a financial standpoint, I wanted to try to give an insight to people who didn't start off a lot of money, how they could generate their own income into a way to become wealthy or to certainly be more affluent than they ever really thought about and how they could listen. So just an example, I don't know the extent that you looked at the book, but in 1977,

I was hanging out in bars, which I'd do all the time now. And there were these two pilots that said, FedEx has just started, you know, and they can't go to these little cities. We're trying to buy 10 planes. And we're looking for $600,000. Can you try to get a $600,000? Why not? Now this was FedEx themselves or people who are going to work? No, FedEx had just started, I think it's 71 and UPS right in that general period of time. The whole thing of taking packages from town to town. But the big planes they used couldn't go to the smaller venue.

So this idea was by little planes to go to the smaller venues to bring them back and forth to where FedEx, UPS it was. And I went to a bunch of bags. I was able to get them the, I think it was 500,000, maybe six, got 10 airplanes. A year later, I got married to my second wife. I sold my share back to them to buy a house. So my point being, you know, I took the risk and found it. And all the way through, I have to get into restaurants in 2003. And I'm, you know, I've been a part of nine restaurants now.

I have seven, I think. But you're, you're, it's how do you get ahead? How do you manage? How do you have the vision to go forward? That was the biggest part, both for my children, anybody else should read it. And the other thing is, you know, I know I have a sense that you feel the same way. I feel like all of my career I've been trying to teach,

whether it's lawyers or people in marketing or how to get ahead. And I just keep wanting to get back. And so that was another part of the book was to try to get back. Yeah, educate people, show people a thing. That's what we love about the Chris Voss show. people come and they share their stories of life stories are the fabric of our lives if you took all my stories away you'd be like hey chris what's up i'd be like i don't know looking at the wall and trouble is not telling the same story twice

the trouble's not the same story twice if you're married you got to tell some stories now on your tic-tok 55 year trial lawyer civil rights activists on DOJ files you've got something on here i where is it, Barstool Business Advice Part 9. Is that a series you do, a barstool? It is. As a matter of fact, the second book I'm writing now, because I've been in the business so long now, is Barstool events and conversations. So I've spent a lot of time writing down funny things that happen. But what I typically do, because I'm in a bar every night at 7 o'clock, or my wife and I are, is I'll turn to the person next to me, and I'll say, what do you do?

and then they'll tell me they're somebody famous or not. I don't mean necessarily. It's celebrity famous, but they're, they're from big law. They own a company. And the next thing I'll say is, did anyone ever tell you anything or ask you anything about how to succeed that you would want to tell a young person?

And they do. Never be late. If you're always on time, you know, just never be late because you're stealing time from somebody else when you're late and you're, you're being rude or always dress appropriately for every occasion, whatever it is. I was in New York the other day and on American Airlines, ran an American Airlines pilot at the bar, and he was telling me that he had really hard times his life, but his mother saw him crying one day and said,

what's wrong? And he told her. And she said, son, it takes a lot to be successful. If it didn't take a lot, everybody would be successful. So you keep forward, which I did. And that's now one of the chapters in my new book. You know, I like that. I usually like to go out and talk to people.

I'm annoying that way. And make friends with strangers, you know, I'll get a whole two rows of people laughing on a plane. And even like an elevator, any one of those spaces where it's weird, you know, like an elevator. Yeah. Where people like, don't say anything. We might get murdered, you know. Like, you're in an elevator. And so I make friends.

Sometimes I just like rebelling, I guess, against the quiet and the uncomfortiness. But, you know, I like entertaining like you. I like entertaining. I like teaching. But also like hearing people's stories. I think I'm going to use that line you have where you ask people, you know, if you could give some advice, what would you give from your life? Because that's kind of what one of the things you learn from their stories, right? I'm serious.

The other day, and I won't tell you, this was one of the surprising ones, not the story, but this couple came in and I mean, they had jewelry galore on it. They were, they looked really good. And I said something. And I said, he said, you know, I used to do this. I said, what did you last year? He said, I just got out of prison. I said a bigger one. He said, yeah, I was a financier and I did something wrong.

So I just got to serve nine years. I said, where did you get on that jewelry? So I'll have my ways. My ways. Now, I see here you talk about civil rights. You talk about leadership, one of my favorite themes. Yeah. What are your favorite?

Do you have any favorite topics on leadership? You want to jam out real quick? Maybe. I think that from the leadership standpoint, I think that once again, you have to have a lot of confidence that what you're doing is the right thing and that you have a certain level of humility as well as egotism, because you can't sound up from front of any people. It can't be on your radio.

When I was a disc jockey, there's a certain level of wanting to be heard to be doing it. But I think that you have to understand that you really know the topic that you're dealing with, that you have to really understand from a leadership standpoint, that the absence of change is death. But everything changes every day. The radio changes, the law changes, everything changes. And so you have to be ready as a leader to look at the change that takes place in your media every day, see what new door opens, how that new door does for you or doesn't do for you,

but how you can lead your people and teach your people to do the same thing you want yourself to do. Eating is important. And especially when you're doing as many things as you can, I think a lot of, let me ask you this, because I've always been curious about this. You know, people are kind of an interesting, funky lot, as you probably know, you've seen a few. And it's always been, I've always been that leader type. I didn't always used to be that way. I think when I was young, I was kind of a watcher.

I was very introspective or introvert. And then when I got my first company, you know, I had to realize she had to be the bossy boss. And then my big mouth part of my life began. But, you know, with juries, you're almost kind of like being a leader for them, maybe, aren't you? I think you're more of a magical figure up there. Yes, you're leading in the sense. But you're creating an environment. Let me come back.

So the way you have to look at it is there are people who come in and that don't want to be there. Most of them have never been there. They have no idea what's going on. So the first thing they're going to look at is who does the judge in the bailiff look at a lot? You want to be the one the judge and the bailiff look at. Or when you're talking about these jurors are all saying, who's the judge listening to? Who does he give the appearance or she give the appearance?

So once again, you're this actor in there trying to win over and you have to have a level of confidence to do it, a level of belief to what you're doing, and a script that you've manufactured that's going to change because the witness testimony is going to always change. Oh, really? Yeah, oh, yeah. I mean, the words change.

I don't want to get political. So my point is that, you know, people change from day to day and that's just the way it goes. It's interesting to me. I've always kind of found it wild that, you know, I've always espoused this belief system that, you know, everybody can be a leader, parents, a parent's leader. You know, if the parent is a leader, the teenager's leader. But, you know, everyone can be leaders because I have, I've had people go, I can't be leader. Chris, I don't have the CEO title. I'm just some middle management dude.

But you're a leader. Yeah. But you can lead. Anyone can lead. And it's kind of interesting to me how people will follow that. But yeah, I've never heard about that psychology of them watching stuff. It's cool. You figure that out.

I think the other thing that you have to do when you're in that position is say, and I tell a lot of my mentor is this, when you, who is it that you look up to? I don't care if it's a minister or president. Who is it you're looking up to? What are the values and traits that that person or those people have? that make you believe in them. Whatever those traits are that make you believe in them are the same traits you need to have and monitor so that the people are looking at you

can believe in that same person. And so it just, I think it's a very valuable thing. If you're emulating the truth, whatever that is, and you're going to find the people to do it, if you want people who can speak well or sound intelligent, whatever it is that makes you believe in a person, then those are the kind of things you have to have to make somebody believe in you. Wonderful discussion here.

We've gone super long, but anytime there's a great discussion, that's how you know. It was a good show. As we wrap up, give people your final pitch out to pick up the book and make it to know you better on TikTok and wherever else on the internet. All I can say is that the book is a story in my life as an egotistical person who's writing something like that, as my wife says. I think you can learn from it. As far as TikTok, I try to teach every day or almost every day on it, some method for making your life better.

What a great thing. Making your life better. That's what we do here on the Chris Foss show. If you want your life to be, we would joke if you want your life to be horrible, there's other podcasts you're going to have to go to for that. We don't do that. We make your life better. And that's just how we are because we care, people. We want to see you smile, live healthy, vibrant lives. And you can too. If you order Albert's book called On the Road Again, A Truck Driver's Highway to National Trial, Law, and Business Success out February 28, 2025 by Albert Parnell. Thank you for coming to the show, Albert.

It's just wonderful to have you on. Thank you for having me. I've certainly enjoyed it, and I appreciate you. And I love how you give back. We all need to focus on different ways that we can all give back. And rising tide lifts all boats. Remember that, people. I got that.

Think from abundance as opposed to scarcity. Anyway, thanks to Manus for tuning in. Go to Goodreasekris.com, Fortresschus, LinkedIn.com, Fortess, Chris Foss, YouTube.com, Fortesch, Chris Foss, Facebook. Facebook. And you can visit my Loli account that doesn't have near as many

action and followers as Alvers says on TikTok. I've got to catch up to him now. But, you know, he's on there saying smart, you know, attorney stuff. I'm just like over there, I don't know, drool out the side of my face or something. People are like, look at that. He clearly probably has a podcast.

Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in. Go to Good Reasons. Never mind. We did that part. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life.

Warning. Consuming too much of the Chris Walshow podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. There we go. I'll give that a few seconds, Albert.