The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Overcoming Depression: Jim Shoopack’s Journey to Hope and Healing

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Overcoming Depression: Jim Shoopack's Journey to Hope and Healing Jimshoopack.com About the Guest(s): Jim Shoopack is a dedicated marathoner, mental health advocate, motivational speaker, and community volunteer. He has triumphed over significant challenges, including two battles with major depressive disorder, in 2001 and 2021. Jim uses his personal journey of overcoming depression to raise awareness and support for those silently suffering. He is notably known for completing 21 marathons, including a remarkable achievement of four marathons in four months in 2016. Jim is currently committed to completing 100 marathons as a means of reclaiming the days lost to depression and inspiring others to pursue wellness. Episode Summary: In this powerful episode of the Chris Voss Show, Chris interviews Jim Shoopack, a marathoner and mental health advocate who shares his poignant journey through battling major depressive disorder not once, but twice. Jim's story begins with an unexpected onset of depression in 2001, leading him through therapy, medication, and the transformative power of running. His narrative is a testament to resilience and the healing potential of exercise, therapy, and community support. Listeners will be captivated by Jim's quest to run 100 marathons and how this symbolizes reclaiming time lost to mental illness. Throughout the episode, Chris and Jim delve into the societal stigma surrounding mental health, especially in men, and the harmful effects of isolation and shame. Jim emphasizes the importance of seeking professional help, sharing his personal experiences with therapists and medications, and how they significantly contributed to his recovery. In an age where social media often portrays a facade of perfection, Jim's candid accounts of overcoming deep personal struggles and his advocacy for mental health awareness offer timely and invaluable insights. Listeners will walk away with the understanding that asking for help is a brave and vital step in the journey toward recovery. Key Takeaways: The Power of Resilience: Jim's story highlights the importance of perseverance through mental health challenges and the life-changing impact of relentless self-care. Breaking the Stigma: The conversation underscores the urgent need to eradicate stigmas around mental health, encouraging open dialogue and understanding. Role of Therapy and Medication: Jim emphasizes that professional help through therapy and medication can be pivotal in managing depression. **Support Systems: ** Surrounding oneself with supportive and caring individuals is crucial for overcoming mental health struggles. Physical Activity's Healing Power: Engaging in activities like running can be a therapeutic tool in reclaiming one's life from the grips of depression. Notable Quotes: "You're worth the help, whoever you are, if you're listening and you might have those thoughts that say or you might love someone who is having those thoughts." "It's okay to not be okay. But it's not okay to stay that way. Get help." "Our minds are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for." "Peace of mind is one of the biggest blessings as far as I'm concerned." "Every interaction with a person is energy - it's either an investment or it's a withdrawal." Resources: Email: [e-mail]

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster

with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, it's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, the highly seasoned that makes official welcome to the show. As always for 16 years and 24-hour episodes. We've been bringing the Chris Foss Show with all the wonderful minds, brilliant stories, people telling you the journeys of life, things that have come, their cathartic moments and how they survived them, giving you the blueprints to make your life better, survive as well.

Knowing you're not alone is also important as well. So over here at the Chris Foss Show, we're trying to prove your life, help improve the life of others, share the knowledge. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, Chris Voss One on the TikTok, and you know, those crazy places on the internet. Today we have another man on the show sharing his wonderful story with us. And I think you're going to, I think you're going to be moved by what he has to share and some of the impact that he's trying to make. Jim Schupack joins us on the show. He is a marathoner, mental health advocate,

motivational speaker, and community volunteer. His journey includes overcoming two battles with major depressive disorder, one in 2001 and another in 2021, both which profoundly shaped his perspective in 2001 a life-changing experience sparked his recovery leading to therapy medication and the transformative power of exercise He started short walks with his dog Sonny slowly Grew up growing into a passion for long-distance running to date

Chupac has completed 21 marath, including four in four months in 2016. I'm tired just thinking about that. With a personal goal of reaching 100 marathons, a symbolic journey to reclaim the days Jim lost the depression to raise awareness for others to suffer in silence. Welcome to the show. How are you Jim? Thank you so much, Chris, for having me and everyone who's listening, watching what have you. It's great to be here. So yeah, thank you so much, Chris, for having me and everyone who's listening, watching, what have you. It's great to be here. So yeah, thank you again.

Give us any.com is where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? You could find me on a Jim Schupack, J I M S H O O P A C K.com. No spaces, just everything, you know, straight out. You could find me on LinkedIn at Jim Schupack, same name, you know, J-I-M-S-H-O-O-P-A-C-K, Facebook, Jim Schupack, and Instagram, same thing. Pete So, give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside your, what you do there on your website and to help people. Jim Really, a lot of what I do is hopefully, my goal in life is to give hope to those people who either have gone through depression, and depression has different, it has more of a mild form, a moderate

form for life, a better word, and a major form, and I had the major form, but that doesn't dispel the minor form, or if you want to call it the mild form, either, but it's just to kind of give hope to those people who are either currently suffering or have suffered through a depressive disorder or any type of mental illness for lack of a better word, you know, like anxiety, schizophrenia. I didn't have any schizophrenia, I think it was anxiety and major depressive disorder, but I think really in opening the conversation and speaking freely about it is the only way that we're going to eradicate the stigma. So that's really what I'm here for is to provide hope and also to give hope to those who have

lost a loved one to suicide, which unfortunately is the case in my family. Yeah. You mentioned, you know, talking about this stuff and the importance of it. You know, a lot of people have a hard time, especially men with depression, quietly holding in their feelings and dealing with their issues. You know, as men, we kind of learn, we seal off. No one cares about our feelings and our emotions really. Unless you pay a therapist, then they carry a whole lot at a hundred dollars an hour. And I'm not negating therapists, I'm just making a joke here, people. Go see a therapist. And professional ones, please.

Don't buy crystals. So anyway, that's the running joke we have on the show. Basically, tell us your journey. Let's start at the beginning. How did you grow up? Was there a family? Was there a history of depression in your family? and let's go from there. Not mom or dad side, not on my parents side. I could say that on somewhere down the line there was, because I did have one cousin, like a second cousin, if you will, who he did die by suicide and I had another cousin who, yeah, but this was in the past.

So like a, I guess he would have been a second cousin of sorts. Um, I was just a young kid. I maybe in the past. So like a guess he would have been a second cousin of sorts. I was the young kid, maybe in my teens or something like that. And the other one had an overdose. You know, I don't I don't know if that was really a suicide, but it could have been because of the overdose. I don't know. So that only God knows that's the way I look at it.

But the one definitely was a suicide. I remember my grandma calling us when when she had discovered, you know, what had happened. And it was before like the cell phone. So I wound up driving down there and just to make sure she was okay, because that's not a very traumatic event. Yeah. You know, but yeah, so that's really, I guess if there's any history, that would be the history. But as far as my mom and dad, nah, no, there was nothing. Interesting. How, when did you first, you know, I suppose you were like living your life, having a good time, everything seemed fine.

When did you first, you know, hit up against this wall of depression and stuff? This would have been in 2001. I can almost remember it was in the, in the winter, pardon me, 2001. I mean, some people get the winter blues and you know, I, I still to degree get them in Pennsylvania. Let's just say that the weather is not necessarily or the Pocono mountains of Pennsylvania. It's not always sunny and 70, like it might be in San Diego or something like that.

So it, I still get them, but at the same time, I think what had happened was I was youth leader at my church and I absolutely loved the position, but I had reached a certain age where it was like, all right, I'm basically making minimum wage here and I need to do something. I, I wasn't going to be a priest. I had thought about it and I contemplated, but I had, it wasn't, it's not, wasn't my call. It wasn't God's, you know, he didn't call me to the priesthood.

I'm devout Catholic, but it's not something that I was called to do. But at the same time, it just out of the blue, it really hit. And it was almost as if the person that you're talking to now, for example, as if my soul, my spirit was just kicked out of my body. I'm pretty jovial, pretty happy. I'm the type of guy who loves to do pranks. If you've ever seen practical jokers, people would call me the fifth impractical joker because I love pulling pranks on people.

Forget that, I was the 180. It was like a very, very sad, and it was just out of the blue. It just kinda happened. I do have a seizure disorder. I only had a couple of things out of my life, but the chemical imbalance that existed there that was pre existing could have potentially played a role in this. Again, I don't know for sure. But my neurologist who I've spoken to,

to, you know, when I said straight up, I said, you know, Dr. Shabria, could this have occurred because of this? He said, there's a chance, yes. So it could have been that this led to this, and then the desire to potentially want to change careers and not know where I was going in life. Now I am also a teacher and I'm completing my 18th year in education and as a soccer coach. So where I'm at now is fantastic. But at that point in time,

I didn't know what the future held. You know, I didn't have much money because I'm earning, you know, about minimum wage. I'm this, you know, and you get the winter blues and before you know it, it could, anything could spark it. And that's what happened. And I just remember not wanting to get up. I remember having thoughts of suicide.

I remember, I never, I never did it. I never attempted it But I had ideations at that point in time I remember just laying on my sofa at my parents house and I would just sit there and I didn't I wouldn't do anything you know, it was just you know, and eventually I Friend of mine and him fortune has passed away, but but he had told me, Jim, you're not yourself. Are you okay? I was like, honestly, dude, no, I'm not.

And he said, you're acting a lot like you might be depressed. And at that time, I didn't know what depression was because I had no idea what it was. But I said, let me look this thing up. Of course, I never sent them. It was the greatest. I'm married 15 years. I'm very happy. I love my niece the day she was born. But I'm saying that one of the

happiest days of my entire life was the day I found out I had depression. Because once I know what I had, I know how to go back at it. I knew that what I had had a name. And then I was like, Okay, I need to go see the doctor, you know, I need to see a medical doctor and go from there because it was, you know, it's not normal for me to have thoughts of suicide. That is not, it's not normal for anyone to have, like that's not something you should go see a medical professional.

You know, I'm sorry, I apologize. No problem. I was just going to interject here. Yeah, normally we're predisposed as human beings to preserve ourselves. You know, if I come at you with a knife, you're either going to run off or you're going to defend yourself, fight or flight, you know? And you're not going to take being killed easily. And the body has to, and the mind really has to abuse itself to reach that point where people want to shut off that

voice in their head and they're tired of just being under attack and Sometimes you know Getting help helps. So at that point, what did you do? Can you hear me I Must look I'm sorry. Yeah, I must I laugh because I must have looked at 10 different websites, the symptoms of depression. And I printed them all out because I'm like, I couldn't believe that this one had the symptoms. I said, okay, this, this can't be right. So I ended up looking at others,

printed them all out. I said, Oh, my gosh, all of them have the same symptoms. I was thrilled, thrilled to know that how I felt had a name and that I can keep moving on. You know, at that point, the my medical doctor was the mom of some of the kids at my church where I was a youth leader. So I had emailed her and I had told her, I was like, look, is it possible to make an appointment with you? You know, it's a sensitive topic, but do you mind if I come in and see you? She was like, yeah, that's a sensitive topic, but do you mind if I come in and see you?" She was like, yeah, that's fine.

It was like a mission impossible thing, Chris, because here I am going in through the back door to go into the office because I was embarrassed. I didn't know, you know, at that point in time, I didn't know that, you know, it was just the stigma got the best of me, you know, and here I'm thinking like, are they going to put me in a straight jacket and put me on the sixth floor? Because that's what you see on TV. So we've kind of like, that was kind of normalized where I'm thinking like, Oh my gosh, is what is going to happen to me worse than how I feel. And, you know, she told me something that I, if, if you folks take nothing else from this, I want you to listen. She said, Jim, you're not the first that I if you folks take nothing else from this I want you to listen

She said Jim you're not the first that I that I've ever diagnosed with depression clinical depression And you sure as heck are not gonna be the last so if any of you out there, you know, she told me that and it changed my life it changed my perspective because I realized This is something that I am NOT the only one who suffers from this. In fact, about the, I guess the research has one in four, but that's only based on diet that will have a mental illness. But based on my research, pardon me, that's based on the research that exists. And that's any mental illness, but based on research that I have done and talking to professionals in the field, they said they think it could be as many as one half that will have not and I'm not saying major depressive disorder, but I'm talking could be minor could be something slight.

It could be something in their life because we've all suffered some sort of trauma in our life. It could be a minor trauma. It could be major trauma and that trauma you don't know when in your life it could trigger something. It could be major trauma and that trauma you don't know when in your life it could trigger something Yeah, and and you know, so that's that's something that I to bring to people's attention that if it's okay to not be okay But it's not okay to stay that way get help, you know, you had mentioned the therapist That's one thing that my original doctor had said she said Jim. I want you to hear

I'm gonna give you any depressants party and I also want you to consider going to therapy now you have to remember at this point in time Therapy was something that went in my mind You're laying on this sofa and there's the psychologist, you know taking notes blah blah blah And it wasn't that at all. I met with this wonderful woman very caring person I went to her office locally in the Poconos. And I remember the first time I met, I just bawled my eyes out. It was like a cleansing, like just a waterfall. But it was a cleansing that I needed,

because I didn't know what was going on in my life. And after, I'd say, a couple of'd say a couple months she's Jim you are doing so well and by then the medication had taken a whole because it takes a good two to three weeks probably closer to three weeks before it finally gets into your system and I will say this to also the the listeners the watchers is not all antidepressants are the cure all there will be some that will take you back and you got to be part of it you have to be patient with yourself and honest because if you start feeling worse you may talk to your doctor right away go to the ER let them know because

we want you here tomorrow you know tomorrow tomorrow needs you and your you know your family needs you there's great things that there you. There's some awesome things on the other side of this darkness that you might be feeling now and you just have to get through and there are people there who will help you get through. Yeah. I want to put an exclamation mark on some of your stuff. Like you talk about knowing that you're not alone. One of the problems people get inside of their own head with depression and sometimes self-harm is they think they're alone. They isolate themselves sometimes, which makes it worse, but they basically think that I'm probably the only person who has this affliction, it's just me, no one cares, whatever,

you know, it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling, this spiral downwards sort of thing that can happen to you. And what a lot of people don't realize is, you know, talking to people can help. And some people are embarrassed. I think some people feel a bit of shame, oh, there's something wrong with me. And it's okay that there's something wrong with you, because, you know, I think one people feel a bit of shame. Oh, there's something wrong with me. And it's okay that there's something wrong with you because, you know, I think one of the great identifiers you made was, all right, now that I know I'm not alone, now I know that other people are, are, have this affliction, I can figure out a way through them and their knowledge on how to fix this and improve the quality of my life. You know, I went through what you did. I grew up with OCD, ADHD as a child.

I would open and check the doors 50 times a night to make sure they were locked. You know, OCD, really bad, still have ADHD. And in essence, the, in essence, the, I, one day I was, I was having panic attacks like every day, every day I was having panic attacks like every day. Every day I was having panic attacks. And I would go through high anxiety and break things and destroy office equipment. I just fucking lose it. And so finally I reached a point where I wanted to start carrying a gun in the car because

I kept having road rage and that was never going to end well. And so that was at the point that fortunately my brain went, you know what, I think we need some help here. And I had some bad episodes where I was having massive brain, it just felt like my brain was just hurting and finally I went into the ER one day and I just go, I think I have brain cancer so I don't know what's going on with me but I can't I can't do this anymore and told me this is the 90s you know so we didn't talk a lot about depression stuff and she goes she goes yeah you got you got that their anxiety and I was like you know I never heard of this before and I'm like anxiety yeah I

also have fear love kindness yeah what the fuck what you telling me? I was like, everybody's got anxiety. You get anxiety, you know, you're anxious about something, you know? And he's like, she's no, no, hold on, calm down. Cause I was about ready to tear into her. And cause you know, I was, I was so amped up with, you know, all the, all this stuff. And so she explained to me, you know, okay, this is a term that's a medical term that's designed for people that have anxiety like yours. And so she put me on some horse tranquilizers that by the time I weaned myself off of them, they were powerful enough to, I don't know, put an elephant down to sleep. And I remember cutting them down as I was weaning myself off them. And it used to be I would take two at a time a couple of times a day.

And at the end of my weaning off, if I took a quarter of a single one, it knocked me asleep. I mean, that's how jacked up I was. And I went home that night. And for the first time when the tranquilizers kicked in and I don't know, remember she gave me antidepressants and stuff, I finally felt like a human being. Everything was calm for a while. And so she recommended, you know, go see a therapist or a psychologist or whichever one is the one that recommends drugs.

And she said, you may want to talk to them or, or talk to, you know, somebody. Yeah, psychiatrists. Yeah. And get help. I was like, okay, fine, whatever. So I went to my therapist, this therapist and found one and went and got help and he put me on Zoloft and you know, I had to go through the whole procedure of Zoloft where I had to, you know, get it balanced out, get it right and all that good stuff. And, and then it came out the other side about two and a half months later when the dosage hit me just right. I experienced what it was like to be normal and even being and be able to pick up my thoughts

and put them back down. And there's quite the amazing thing. Feel free to respond to any of those things that I made on your thing and let's continue on with your story. Oh yeah. First of all, thank you for sharing that Chris, because I know especially as a man, you know, they tell us you have to man up this and that. This is not something you man up with.

Hey, if I have a broken ankle, you're going to tell me to man up? Just man up, put that tongue down, fracture back in your leg and you'll be fine. Yeah, go ahead. Go back on the soccer field or the football field. Just man leg and you'll be fine. Yeah, go ahead. Go back on the soccer field or the football field. Just man up. You'll be fine. Or are you kidding me? So it's, it's, it's not a, as easy as some people think. And, and I think for me and for you, we manned up by getting help. That's how you know, that's how you know. mean. And you know, so for me, what, like, when I went to the doctor, and she said, you know, go to the therapist, and you know, those hundred days, I

call them 100 days in hell, because when I tell you, I prayed daily, Chris, it was like, I remember saying daily, it was Jesus, please take me or make me better. I don't care which take me or make me better. I don't care which take me or make me better I don't care that was a get like so I'm not gonna take my own life But please stop this pain one way or the other either you Take me take me home to the other or you please help me to stop and I think you know And sometimes I know people will like they'll pray they'll say nothing happened

I said no, but I had a friend who said hey You might have depression when I looked it up then I went to the doctor the doctor could help me then she presides Prescribed the medicine then the therapy so in my opinion God will not necessarily bake the cake But he'll give you the ingredients you want to bake the cake. He's, look, I'm going to teach you, child. You will, you can bake this cake. You can do it, but I'm not going to bake it for you. So that's the way I looked at it. And it really taught me just a perspective

of how I could just achieve some pretty cool things because, you know, I was not a runner. I'm fact in soccer, Chris, I was a goalkeeper. Half the reason I was a goalkeeper was because I didn't want to run. Well, God, my friend, because, you know, as you said earlier, I had 21 minute thoughts now, and I did four and four months in 2016, you know? And so for me, it was when I, when I was really bad, I'll never, Sonny was our goal to retrieve, I mean, he passed away years ago but I'll tell you what I call him St. Sonny because that dog he would

put his little nose like I don't know if you can see that but a bad answer to away from me when I was laying down and that was his way of not saying hey I need you to take me for a walk. It was hey I need to take you for a walk but I need you to put the leash on me so that we can go and then whenever I would Go outside in nature because it nature's proven to Provide like a spark of just that feel good just being outside and even just want me, you know you know and yeah, exactly and so for me it was awesome because I would have these first of all I love dogs and

I love cats too. But I mean I'm a special place might you know my heart for dogs and So I'd be walking him and we'd go around the corner. That was maybe the first day and then before you know it It was like we'd be walking further. Maybe it was like a half a mile or a mile then I'm like, holy cow Let me let me try like just jogging, you know and Here we are like Like, in fact, my first, no, pardon me. They usually say with running, you should go 5K, 10K, half marathon, then marathon, just build up to it.

Don't do what I did. I did a 5K, then I went right to the marathon. So it's probably not the best, but that just showed me what depression and overcoming it did. It just showed how far I could go and that our minds are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for. We are like if you really and like when I could shut down my mind, because my mind used to go a mile a minute, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't. Now it's like in their silence.

And it's such a blessing. Peace of mind is one of the biggest blessings as far as I'm concerned, Chris, because you can just sit there and be present. You can be present in the here and now you don't have to worry about what happened, what's going to happen this. And it was not always like that for me. In fact, up until recently, it wasn't like that for me. Like I'd always have something in my mind jumping around, okay, what do I have to do next?

And now I don't. And it's great. You know, you know, and so that that was great. And, you know, I, I have to say I have to go back and, you know, again, thank God, because I've never used drugs before, which I about to tell you Chris or any of your listeners, but the one day I'll never forget, I was praying, I fell asleep on my sofa and I had an out of body experience where I had seen, if you know who the Holy Family are, it's Jesus, your baby Jesus, the blessed mother,

Mary, his mom and Saint Joseph, right in the corner of my bedroom, or my living room. Chris, I've never used drugs before. I don't drink, I don't smoke. For me, and I'll tell you, when I came back to my body, I knew I had the fear of God, man, because my heart rate, if I had a Fitbit, it would have been over 200 beats a minute. It was like just, but at that point in time, it was almost like they were God was telling me like, I hear you, you're gonna be okay. And it wasn't long after that,

that Wendell told me, my friend, Wendell that, hey, you have depression, this that so it was almost like I'm hearing your your your prayers. And for me, that was just, I don't deserve to be able to see something like that, but for whatever reason, the prayers allowed me to, and you know, maybe it was just, you know, and that was just the first bow. You know, I mean, I don't know if you want me to continue with the second bow, I can, you know, go into that because... Pete Slauson Let's get into that. David Lopate Yeah.

Pete Slauson We're running out of time, so yeah, let's get into it. David Lopate Yeah, so the, basically after that, like, I had gone on some service trips, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, West Virginia, Appalachia, Canada, New Jersey. Just it gave me perspective on poverty, gave me perspective on what truly is important in life. And that's just helping people. Because my mantra, basically my mantra when I meet someone new, you know, I think to myself, how do you treat animals? How do you treat pets? And how do you help other people? How

do you boost them up? People who are disadvantaged? Those are the two things I need to know about you. If those, if you are good about doing those two things, then I want to know more about you. Because those two things show me that you are a good person and that you want to you know we could have just as easily been born in a third world country Chris let's be honest yeah and I tell my students hey who wants to win the lottery their hands go up and I said guess what you did you live in the United States of America you have the opportunity to do things that people in other countries don't have a chance to yeah I said I said, you need to don't take it. Don't take that for granted.

You have to do something with that. But that being said, so during COVID teaching was to say it was a challenge would be an understatement. I don't want to use any expletives, but we'll just say it was a lot of teachers became very burned out. We had a lot of teachers retired. That's not just at my district. That's it, districts throughout the country.

It was just way too much. Now, my brother who was always quiet, but actually when I had a seizure when I was a young kid, he saved my life because I didn't have a history of seizure in my family. I was turning blue. He was there. Hey mom, dad, Jim's turning blue.

Pick me up. My dad did. If Bob wasn't there there my brother. I wouldn't be here today most likely but April 26, he hadn't been doing well he went to the ER on the It was Easter of 2021. I'll never forget it and because he wasn't feeling well and they couldn't diagnose him with anything They couldn't find anything wrong. So he was just, he wasn't sure, but he was still acting himself. He was goofy, very intelligent person. Oh my gosh. But then he just progressively got worse and worse. And what it was, he got in his own mind that if he fell asleep, he wouldn't wake up. But

that, and then before, before you know it, your fault, you're not sleeping and this is what's happening. You know, so then he had fortune, you know, he took his own life on April 26th, that one 2021. I'll never forget the call I got from my mom. It was about three in the morning. Oh, gosh. Let's see. It was just I I have no words like it. My we still my parents still live at the same house.

But, you know, we got a blessing in his room. They're very devout Catholics. They go to mass every day. You don't feel anything here in far as negativity is concerned. It's a very positive thing. My parents are two of the most loving people. I'm so blessed to have parents such as them and just other people around me that care about me.

But when the school year ended, when I tell you, Chris, I took a nosedive and it was just because I was so busy, the school year ended. And but at that point in time, I knew I had depression because I remember with a member, I was married at that point and I still am sorry. We'll celebrate 15 years in August. She signed a contract. Thank you. She signed those long term contracts. We want to keep it that way. But and I know she was a keeper because at that point in time, you know, through good times and bad times, I'll tell you what she was there through bad times. And I knew I had

depression because of the first time. And I told her I was like Jan, I have I said I have to go see the doctor. But this time Chris, it was even worse. It was like it lasted the entire summer. I had hallucinations. I believe and this is entirely I believe this was attacked from the devil. I entirely do. I think you know, he tries to destroy a family. My brother had just died. Why not take the other son and you were talking about if you have a knife. trust me, I had thoughts in my brain and even getting up at night because I had to go to the bathroom

where I forgot to take medicine and the thoughts said, you know, hey, I can take this pain away from you, but I need you to pick up the knife. Yeah. You know, and I did. So, one of the things that happens with suicide is, you know, we've had people on the show that have talked to us, it leaves behind on average six people that are survivors. And it does the most damage to those six people because there's questions that are unanswered, it's hard for them to find closure, you know, there's no warning. You know, if someone's old or they have a disease. You know, there's no warning, you know, you know, if you, you know, if someone's

old and they're, or they have a disease, you know, they're in decline, you know, nobody gets out of here alive. We all kind of know how this ends and some people are moving at it faster than others, unfortunately, but you know, you, you have a warning and you can have them, you know, you can sit down, you know, I sat down with my dad as he was having heart attacks and strokes and things were clearly progressing the wrong way. You know, I sat down with him and spent time with him and got closure on a few things and

made sure the decks were clear so that when he was gone, you know, I wouldn't feel like there's something we should have talked about or cleared up between the two of us. And so, that impacts people massively, more so than they realize when suicide happens in a family or if you're one of those six people that's closely related to that person. You also feel like you're stolen, like something's been stolen from you a little bit, is the mentality. You know, you deal with sadness for the person, the loss, but you're kind of angry at the person for, you know, doing what they did, stealing themselves from you. And, you know, and then the guilt where you're like, should I have seen the signs? Should I have reached out more?

Should I have called them more? Should I have talked to them more? You know, all that sort of survivor guilt that goes on. And so I just, I just want to make those highlights because they're really important for people to understand. That's kind of part of the grieving process, but the suicide leaves behind a mark that's very different than a death. And sometimes it leaves behind a mark that gives permission. Many times you'll see a father or mother commit suicide, a child of that

father or mother will commit suicide. Sometimes there's a lineage of it. I think Ted Turner had three suicides in his family and he really thought that he would commit suicide by like 45 or 50. So it can have that kind of profound effect on survivability and it almost kind of brings down the wall of, you know, when you look at suicide as, you know, a final solution, but also a very painful end. It kind of makes it just permissible, I think is the word I'm looking for, and it makes it like more okay, which is a weird way to say that, but it does. I mean, people go, you know, the Bob coming to suicide can't be all that bad. Maybe, you know, it takes away I went to the doctor, it took me the entire summer to get my head clear. And when I tell you, it's a miracle I'm alive today, Chris, like I was walking a tightrope

before for the love of my parents and was in love for my dogs. I have three dogs at home. They're two hour mixes. And I just couldn't I would picture them finding me. And I couldn't I couldn't it was like I can't do that. I cannot do that. I said, you know, and just my parents had just lost the son and I said, I just know I'm not I can't I said,

I will live with this pain. I said it just I'm going to have my faith, my hope and that I will get better. And I thank God I did. But I, I went to there and I still go to therapy four years later. And there's even times I weekly therapy, my therapy, my therapist is an angel. And people who I want to say this to about therapist, some people, so I tried therapy didn't work. That's one person you try therapy. Now, if you date somebody and it doesn't work, does that mean you're never going to date again? So you need to like, look at it, this look at it like you're not gonna date again. So you need to like look at it this, look at it like,

you're not marrying this person. They just need to be someone that is going to help you to feel better, help to process your emotions. So maybe it didn't work with one therapist, but there's so many therapists out there and we need more therapists to begin with. Like in my dissertation, that was part of one of the things I found out was like, we're lacking in therapy and the number of people therapists.

But, you know, as far as my therapist, she even told me, she said, yeah, the fact that you have a brother who died by suicide, that suggests you have a higher percentage, higher chance of you doing the same thing. And just like we talked about. So how did you overcome it? How did you get through that? Experience that now with, with that, I will say my, that happened in the summer and my wife and I would go walking in nature, like basically there's a couple

trails, we would go walking pretty much every day. I had to be with her. I couldn't be by myself. I was afraid to be by myself. Otherwise, I would be cowering in my in the recliner like I and she went to bed. All right, I'm going to bed too, because I was afraid to be alone. Wait, it's just sorry, I couldn't do it. That's how bad it was. I had hallucinations. I literally would see again, the reason I think it was the attack from the devil. I would see people who maybe had, what is it? You know, something, all of it, some tattoo or some shirt, and then it

would plug into my mind and I would see people with that same face. I mean, it was that bad. And even Susan, my therapist, she said, Jim, you're one of the worst I have ever seen in my 25 years of therapy. But she also told me, you're one of the biggest changes in such a short time that I have had in 25. And she said, that's nothing short of a miracle. That's because of. And she said that's nothing short of a miracle. That's because

of God, she said. And I, every day I'd say, you know, I go to Mass on Sundays, in the summer I'll try to go more. But just being close to God, getting communion, praying, I do my rosary. We like to go to shrines, my wife and I, you know, honor the saints, what have you. I have a devotion of Padre Pio to St. Michael the archangel. You know, whenever I'm in the shrine area, I'm in a place that takes me closer to God. And I feel a calmness like unlike I've ever felt before. And it's just such a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful feeling. But that's what we did. And then eventually, my wife, like the good like a good coach would, she said, you know, Jimmy, I'm really busy today because she was taking classes

She's hate I'll walk with you in the morning But in the afternoon, I want you to try to walk by yourself It'll just be like happy like half a mile a mile. It's like alright. I'll do my best I don't know if I'll be able to make it like I might go and turn right back around but I would get out of the Car so okay, we're gonna try this and something that, you know, for me now was simple. But at that point in time, Chris, it was, it was the most difficult thing I did. When you're depressed, everything feels like 500 pounds on you, weighing on you. Even today, if I go into a supermarket, it's the most for me, I love shopping for food,

because when I was when I was depressed I couldn't go anywhere and just to be by myself just walking around just you know, I I Love it. It's just such a good thing and you know, I Will that and after that part of me know before that I had her in my doctorate at that point And I think the busyness of the doctorate then then my brother dying, then the COVID, I think all that just basically, you know, took control. Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, I really think this was an attack. I really think it was a spiritual attack. I, I mean, you know, like

people can believe what they want. It just based on my feelings. Yeah. And what I went through. But it's I what I try to do now is just to honor my brother's life. Yeah, by helping other people. See, again, like I said, the two things I need to know about someone before I know if I want to know more about them is how do you treat animals? And how do you help other people who are disadvantaged? Once I know that, that is the thing that I then it's, Hey, you sound pretty cool. I want to get to know more about you, you know,

because we all have, you know, if, if I'm on a podcast, if you have a podcast, obviously, we have opportunities that other people don't work. And I think it's so important to help other people with the, other people with those opportunities that we have because they're really blessings. So that's kind of my thing and I'm hoping that my memoir, like I'm working on it now, I started writing it a couple years ago, but I had to put it aside only because it was giving, some of the mindset of the depression and how serious it was, was kind of it was really taken over. And I said, okay, I need to put this away. Now that we're, you know,

four years after the fact, I can kind of dive into it a little bit more. And I feel stronger, a lot stronger mentally. And I think that's because of the therapy. I think that's, I also surround myself with good people. I look at's, I also surround myself with good people. I look at every, you know, interaction with a person is energy pot. Like it's either an investment or it's a withdrawal. If I go in and I talk to someone and I feel fulfilled and it's that we've got some from each other, that's an investment. But if I go in and I talk to somebody and it's, oh my gosh, this person, it takes so much energy to deal with. Obviously, it's withdrawal.

And it's like, after so many withdrawals, it's kind of like, maybe I need to distance myself from this person. Yeah. And I'm a big proponent of energy too, because that stress can lead to anxiety, can lead to other things. So I've kind of learned to keep my boundaries. Boundaries is important. Yes.

Yeah. You got to maintain, you know, there's some people that are drama queens and they'll emotionally drain you and you know, all that stuff. And you've got to be the, you've got to be, you know, basically, you know, ability to cut some of those vampires on emotional vampires. They will drain you with their drama and their problems. And, and you know, ability to cut some of those vampires on emotional vampires, they will drain you with their drama and their problems. And, and, you know, they'll always tell you their problems. But when you tell them yours, they, you know, somehow they're doing the phone line goes dead. Exactly. They don't, they don't care. And that's why you really, and I would say you

have to surround yourself with, you know, good three, four, five people that, you know, you can be your authentic self with that. You don't have to explain who you are. You know, it's just, this is who I am taking her leave it. Fortunately, I'm married to one of them. I have three dogs at home, even though they're not human. They let me be who I am. And, you know, so that's four. Then I have my parents, that's five and six.

So there we go. You know, and, you know, my niece, she's my brother's daughter, who is in the University of Arizona. We'll see her this summer. And, you know, I promised Bob that I would love her for the both of us and spoil her for the both of us because she's, she's a chip off the old block. She's a smart cookie. That one, man. Holy, she started off her college year as a sophomore because she had so many AP credits and I told you, yeah, I told her, I said, you got that from your dad. You didn't get it from me. I said, the

silliness and the goofiness you have. Oh, that's totally for me. So, yeah, that's but it's it's it's nice and you know, just having the ability to help other people because like really and this opportunity has certainly done that, you know, just having the ability to help other people, Chris, like really, and this opportunity has certainly done that, you know, and I hope people listening just remember that there are people who care about you. The 988 hotline is out there. You know, you can call them, you can text them 24 seven.

There's somebody there who's trained, who will help you. They'll walk you through, you know, the process. You can go to the ER, you know, that you had done, Chris, you know, courageously done. And I appreciate you sharing that for your audience because it's important for people to know that, again, there are places that you can go. And that text message, 988, that could save your life. It could save somebody's life. It really can. And it's free life. It could save somebody's life.

Pete Slauson And it's free too. David Sinclair It is, yeah. Pete Slauson Very important. David Slauson You know. Pete Slauson I think it's anonymous. Like, it will let you be anonymous if you want. And you know, for some people, they're still maybe overcoming shame or potential shame or the guilt. They're like, I really, you know, I don't like asking for help. I don't, I don't, you know, want anybody to know who I am that I have this affliction.

And that's okay if you, that's the way you want to step through it. But yeah, you're right. Having the access to that is really important and it's so free and it's so easy and they can help you. Yeah. Like it's just, yeah, even, even for me, when I started with my journey with depression, I didn't really tell anybody when I started with my journey with depression, I didn't really tell anybody.

I didn't want anybody to know. I did talk to my priest who was my boss at the time, and he was very understanding. He even told me, Jim, this is all you need to do. Three things every day. Now one thing can be get out of bed. The other thing is go to the bathroom because in order to go to the bathroom, you have to get out of bed and at the same time, unless you, you know, and he said, I know you like coffee. So how about we make a cup

of coffee? That's what you need right there is coffee. So plenty of coffee. But then after you do those three things, you feel accomplished. Like you did. And then before you know it, those three things will be other things. It could be, Hey, I mean, I made lunch for my family. I whatever I went for a run. I didn't, you know, so it'll actually get bigger. And my other priest, I will say after my brother died and I, we had a good heart to heart. And for people who've lost someone by suicide, he told me this, he said, Jim, don't shit on yourself. What he meant by that is don't say I should have done.

I think we lost that last couple lines from you. Oh, sorry. The single dropped out. Jim Collins I apologize. My priest of mine, we had met and he had lost a loved one to suicide. And he told me, he said, Jim, you can't shoot on yourself. I should have done this. I should have done this. He said, you did everything you could do. I said, it's also up to the person to ask for help. And I get it because I've been in those shoes before. Sometimes the most difficult thing you can do is ask for help because your mind is telling you you are not worth the help. Your mind is telling

you that you suck. The mind is telling you that I can make this an easy out. You should, you know, kill yourself. And it, you have to battle those thoughts. And I, oftentimes I would pray, I'd say, Jesus, Mary, Joseph, just take these thoughts away because this is not who I am. This is not who you created me to be. So I said, let me honor you by doing this. And I said, this is what they want me to do.

This is what Jesus wants. So I said, hey, you tell me what you want me to do. And I'm, I'm doing it. I, I, I feel like a cat because the cats have nine lines. I feel like I've used about eight of them. So the last one is a long time from now. Oh, you know, you, we, we have a million failures in life. I think that's the biggest problem people think that in today's society, especially

with the Instagram world, that everyone's living the perfect life and they'll post all their smiles. They post, you know, there used to be a thing called Foursquare back in the day where people would check in to become the mayor of, you know, their little store, whatever the hell was. It was kind of fun back then, but now looking back, the silliness of it was kind of a bit much, but a, you know, whatever. But one of the things that people would do is, you know, my friend, he made a good point. He goes, you know, people on social media, they never, they never check into the methadone

clinic. They never check into the jail. They never check into the pawnadone clinic. They never check into the jail. They never check into the pawn shop on Foursquare. You only see them check into the luxurious restaurant. No one shares the true, no one checks in the rehab clinic on Foursquare and posts it on Facebook. People are struggling and they have their issues, but they're not posting that. It looks like on social media, there's this utopia of like people living their best lives.

And then you have this phomo of people going, I want to live that life too. Why am I the only one whose life is negative and not whatever? And you know, in reality, people have problems everyone has problems Yeah, and you know especially me. Have you seen me lately? No, I'm just kidding, but yeah, I mean everyone's got problems So it really just is a thing of of getting them fixed we asked for help Realize, you know, this is the whole point of the Chris Foss show We help tell stories and share stories that let you know You're not alone,

that there are other people out there that have the blueprints that can help you get over whatever you're achieving or help you get through it. Not sure we can prevent like cancer or anything like that. I don't want to give that implication, but we can help. And there are other people that we have on the show that come share their stories, their journeys, their cathartic moments, how they survived. And so, asking for help is, there's no shame in it, there's nothing wrong with it, it just means you're human. And if you haven't figured that one out, that you're human, you know, please do, because we all are.

And no one is infallible, no one's perfect, everyone's going through their own crises, their own journeys. You know, we're not, we're kind of, it's kind of interesting. We're not all fully developed at all levels. And so different people go through different things and, and those challenges that they feel might be more overwhelming than not. So thank you very much for coming to the show. We really appreciate it.

Sharing your story, your heartfelt story, Jim, and I'm glad you're out there advocating for other people, sharing your lessons, sharing your blueprints so that we can save other lives. Thank you very much for coming on the show. No, thank you, Chris. And thank you everyone for watching, listening. You know, if I, if I may like you, you're worth the help. Whoever you are, if you're listening and you might have those thoughts that

say, or you might love someone who is having those thoughts and they might say, they don't want to get help. They say they're not worth the help. No, you are worth the help. I tell you that there is a beautiful light at the end of this tunnel and the tunnel might be pretty dark and it might be very dark. It might be pitch dark, but I will tell you this. I am proof that there's some awesome things that you can do with your life once you get through that tunnel. And, you know, if you are

a person of faith, please lean on God because he will not let you down. I just have had too many things in my life happen. You know, don't expect him to bake the cake because it's not going to necessarily happen. But and he's's not going to necessarily happen. But, and he, he's probably not going to make you win the lottery either. He has bigger fish to fry. Wait, what? I've been praying for that for a long time, Chris, but I guess it would help if I played the lottery, but I don't do that either. But you're the one who's telling me you got to do the work. I mean, part of that work is to, is to, you know, taking is to take in the work is buying the lottery ticket. Right now, you know, you believe

in God right now. God's up in the sky going, I've been trying to give, I've been giving him a lottery, winning a lottery ticket. He just got us to go to the 7-eleven and pick it up pay $10 and he'd be a billionaire by now But he keeps fucking it up. So anyway, you got to the wrong story Press because I haven't been my lottery tickets either. Maybe I'm off the map to Depression medicine thinking about that. Anyway, thank you very much for coming the show. We really appreciate it Thanks for sharing your story as always folks be feel free to ask for help from people. There's no shame in it. And if someone makes you feel ashamed or shameful because you're speaking your truth, fuck those people. Go get somebody who cares about you. And just about most of your

friends will reach out, but also make sure you communicate it well. I've had people come out to me about different things and they really communicated it poorly and were fumbling it really bad, you know? And so you're trying to get help. Please go see a fucking professional therapist people. I'm so tired of crystals and astrology and all this other bullshit. Go see a professional licensed therapist.

And after COVID-19 and some of the, you know, some of the crap we've been going on for the last 20 years or something in this country and, you know, just the social media and all the weirdness that goes on in this world. It just gets harder and more difficult. And that's kind of how life works. So roll with it. It's been doing that since the beginning of time, but you know, feel free to ask for help, get therapy, talk to somebody, you know, when you, when you hold your poison inside you, it kills you

inside because it's just festers and it's kind of like a snake bite. You got to open it up and bleed it out and get it out of your system. system helps have somebody who can help you bandage it up You'll feel better. Thanks Jim for coming the show gives you calm one last time as we go out. Sure. It's a J I M SH o O PS and Peter a C K calm you can also reach me at email You know, so if any of you struggle it out there and you want to talk to somebody who's gone through it You know, even if it's just for you need a little pep talk or you need something like that, it's the email is last name first. So it's S H O O P S and Peter A C K J I M at gmail.com.

And then again, I'm on LinkedIn, Jim Shoupak. I'm on Facebook, Jim Shoupak. I'm on Instagram, Jim Schupack. I'm on Instagram, Jim Schupack. If you do email me or through Facebook or Instagram, please tell me that you heard me on The Chris Voss Show because in that way I'll know to add you. It's just so that I know where you found me in that. Again, I do speaking about mental health, putting your best mind forward. That's my new talk. At the same time, even just to support families who maybe have lost someone to

suicide because it sucks. I live, I have survivor's guilt myself because I've gone through depression twice and I'm, I'm still here. And, but you know, the therapy and the medicine have helped plus nothing like the love of a dog. I will say that those will definitely help. But yeah, Chris, God love of a dog. I will say that. So those will definitely help. But yeah, Chris, God bless you, brother. I really appreciate you and appreciate your audience for being awesome. You know, thank you. Thank you. You're awesome

too, Chris. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And so are you. And so are you. Everyone out there is awesome. Just live your potential. And like I said, I've, I've had two bouts of depression in my life, not quite as bad as yours. I got medication. I took the time to let that medication work because they have to dial in the right, the right setting for you. It is a change over, but you know, you have to get used to slowing down a little bit,

but your brain eventually fixes it and moves on. And I say that because a lot of people don't give medicines the time. They're like, yeah, I took Prozac for a week and it didn't help. And I quit. That can be worse for you. So don't do that. That's why they call them medical professionals, because they know what to do. You're not the, you know, you yourself are not the medical professional. So they tell you to take the message for a certain amount of time Take it for that time. Yeah. Thank you very much for coming the show Thanks for tuning in go to good reason calm fortress Chris Foss linkedin.com fortress Chris Foss

Chris Foss one on the tick tock any all those crazy places in it. Be good to each other. Stay safe We'll see you next time and that's