The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Pack Up the Moon by Kristan Higgins

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

Pack Up the Moon by Kristan Higgins Every month, a letter. That's what Lauren decides to leave her husband when she finds out she's dying. Each month, she gives Josh a letter containing a task to help him face this first year without her, leading him on a heartrending, beautiful, often humorous journey to find happiness again in this new novel from the New York Times bestselling author Kristan Higgins. Joshua and Lauren are the perfect couple. Newly married, they're wildly in love, each on a successful and rewarding career path. Then Lauren is diagnosed with a terminal illness. As Lauren's disease progresses, Joshua struggles to make the most of the time he has left with his wife and to come to terms with his future--a future without the only woman he's ever loved. He's so consumed with finding a way to avoid the inevitable ending that he never imagines his life after Lauren. But Lauren has a plan to keep her husband moving forward. A plan hidden in the letters she leaves him. In those letters, one for every month in the year after her death, Lauren leads Joshua on a journey through pain, anger, and denial. It's a journey that will take Joshua from his attempt at a dinner party for family and friends to getting rid of their bed...from a visit with a psychic medium to a kiss with a woman who isn't Lauren. As his grief makes room for laughter and new relationships, Joshua learns Lauren's most valuable lesson: The path to happiness doesn't follow a straight line. Sometimes heartbreaking, often funny, and always uplifting, this novel from New York Times bestselling author Kristan Higgins illuminates how life's greatest joys are often hiding in plain sight.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks this is voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming over there to get podcasts we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in to uh see the amazing author we have on today her name is kristin higgins she's an international international bestselling author of more than 20 books.

She's sold millions of copies worldwide. We're going to be talking about her newest book that's coming out. And you're going to be able to get this baby right off the shelf. You can go to your local bookstores or you can go to Amazon and pick it up. It's called Pack Up the Moon. And it's going to be coming out June 8th 2021 and of course you can check out all of our other books there at the wherever you find your fine book sales anyway we're going to be talking to her today go to youtube.com 4shass chris foss hit the bell

notification subscribe to all the reviews and interviews that we're doing on the show also go to goodreads.com 4shass chris foss you can see all the stuff we're doing on the show. Also go to goodreads.com, 4chan's Chris Fosh. You can see all the stuff we're doing there. Also go to all the groups we have on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, what is there, TikTok, and Instagram. And this episode is brought to you by our sponsor, ifi-audio.com. And their Micro-iDSD Signature is a top-of-the-range desktop transportable DAC

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Kristen Higgins is the New York Times and international best-selling author of more than 20 books, which have sold millions of copies. I want to say millions of copies worldwide. Her latest novel, Pack Up the Moon, has received starred reviews from Publishers Weekly, Kirkus, Booklist, and it comes out Juneune 8th she is the mother of two excellent and entertaining adult children and also lives in rural connecticut with her heroic firefighter husband and a rescue dog and cat she is also the co-host of the podcast crappy friends which explores the complex friendships between women you can learn more about her stuff at kristinhiggins.com. Welcome to the show, Kristen. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me, Chris. I feel like I should sing a little. If you want, the floor is yours. Whatever tune you want. I love your intro. We try and give it all that verve, all that energy and stuff. So I kind of actually did your plug for

you, but do you want to tell people where they can find out more about you on the interwebs, socially and order the book? Yeah. My website is my name, kristinhiggins.com and you can find ordering information there. And I'm on the usual social media platforms under my name, Kristen Higgins, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr, all that stuff. So yeah, I'd love to have you visit. There you go. She's got the Tumblr folks. She's got the, I have a Tumblr too. I think I have two Tumblrs, one for the business and one for the thing. Need to use it more. Maybe, I don't know. So this new book has come out. Congratulations on,

on writing this book because it's hard writing books and you've written like 20 plus. So you probably, maybe, hopefully it's gotten easier for you. I'll leave that to you. But what motivated you to write this book? Were you like, darn it, I've only written 20 books. I want to write one more. Well, I'm under contract. So that's a motivation. Got to do my job. And this book is the story of grief and love and exploring how you get through the worst possible times and how you can make a life without the person you loved best. You know, all novels are about a thorny problem, you know, and you have to solve the problem throughout the course of the book. So I wanted to write about

a grieving husband and I'll tell you how I came up with the idea for this. It was winter time. I was on Cape Cod trying to finish another book and it was frigid cold. And the cold on the Northern Atlantic is like no other cold. So it was like three degrees and the wind was blowing and the spray was freezing on my glasses. And so my dog and I were walking and I see this guy in the distance and he's standing at the edge of the shore. It didn't seem to have a big coat on or anything. He just was standing, looking out at the ocean. And I thought, he looks like the loneliest man in the world. And I thought, I want to write about the loneliest man in the world. It was just such a compelling image. And I wanted to write a story where, I call this a tragic love story with a happy ending.

Because we all face the death of someone too young at some point in our life. And it's kind of a taboo subject to write about, you know, a beautiful, happy couple where one dies. So I wanted to write this story because I really wanted to explore how people handle grief and also how people handle a terminal diagnosis. So you know, right from the back cover copy that this golden, beautiful couple is married a year when she finds out she has a lung disease called pulmonary fibrosis and there's no cure for it. And it's a slow path to certain death. And so they have everything. They have successful careers and loving families and they have each other.

And now they're hit with this terrible blow. And what I wanted to show was that even when you're living under this kind of sentence, and when you know like, okay, I'm going to die a lot sooner than I had hoped. And I know how I'm going to die. Chances are, how do you live with that? And how do you make the most of your time? And how do you take care of your spouse? So for Lauren, she decides to write Joshua a letter for each month of the 12 months after she dies, because her husband is on the spectrum. He's a loner to begin with. He's not great at social situations. He works for himself and she knows he's going to have a really hard time. He never expected to find her. You know, they're so happy.

They're so in love. And now, you know, the rug is ripped out from under him. So she writes him a letter and she gives him a job to do for each month. And in the beginning, their little jobs like go to the grocery store and clean out the refrigerator. And then they become like sort of increasingly big. And she's kind of pushing him out into the world and out of his comfort zone. And sometimes he's really irritated with these jobs, but it gives him structure for that first year. And so we see the story unfold from Joshua's point of view from a few days before his wife dies for the next 12 months. And then we see Lauren's point of view kind of in reverse from a week before she's going to die to back when she first meets Josh. Oh, wow.

So you unpack the story going back the other way, huh? Yeah. That's pretty beautiful. That's really cool because then you feel like there's the multiple characters in there and you're going through the thing. What made you write it that way where you told the story that way instead of just making Joshosh be the be the character who would you know be in the first person or whatever from there on out i really wanted to

show how you can have a terminal illness and still be a person you know so many times people become their diagnosis in the eyes of others like oh you have you have cancer. I'm so sorry, you poor thing. And they forget that you still have interests and jobs and family and friends and that you can still be happy. And I think that I'm kind of this modeling person in terms of what I like to read and watch. And I read a lot of memoirs of people who have a terminal illness and watch a lot of documentaries. And, you know, a little creepy. But I think there's a lot to be learned from people when they know that their time is short. And I believe that, and I would hope that in my own case, that I could face death as bravely as possible and not have it be the only thing

that was going on in my life. So I wanted to show how a woman could have the best year of her life, even though she knows it's winding down. And she truly loves them. She's passing these letters to them. Can you tell us what the system of delivery is in the timeliness? Do they come in a certain way? Yeah, her best friend delivers them to him and drops them off. And there's this whole circle of people around Lauren and Josh who have also suffered in her loss. She has a sister and her sister's husband and children, her best friend, her mom, his family, and they're all impacted by this. So they're this little huddle of people. And at first, Joshua feels very disconnected from

everyone, very alone. And I think that's a really common reaction to loss is that you feel like you're the only person in the world who knows what this is like, who knew her this way, who's suffering at this time. And it's funny, Chris, I started writing this book before the pandemic. And Lauren has a lung disease. I didn't want to give her brain cancer because that's undone. And then this disease comes, it's a lung disease and it's killing all these people all at once. And I was like, oh, my God, you know, it suddenly felt so close and so personal. And I was away from my family at our little house on Cape Cod. And my husband is a firefighter.

My daughter is a nurse. Her fiance is a firefighter. So they're frontline workers. And they said, don't come home. You're safer there. So for six weeks, I was all alone, worried, afraid to go to the grocery store. We were all figuring out how to live with COVID. And I'm writing this book about loss at a time when people were losing so many. And I thought, oh, this is a terrible, wonderful book for right now. You know, now it's so nice that we're coming out of COVID

and life is starting to come back to normal. But so many people have lost someone in the past couple of years. And if they haven't to COVID, it's to someone else. You know, whether it's your parents or a child or sister, brother, you know, we all suffer like this. And so I wanted to explore that grief from every angle that I could because, you know, grief is the expression of love. It's a beautiful emotion. You know, it's the flip side of joy that you find in another person. And it sounds like a beautiful story where she really loves,

she really loves him and wants him to be happy. There's always the, there's always, I've heard, I think I've had a girlfriend or two say to me, if, if anything ever happened to you, would you, would you ever marry somebody else? Or it's always that question. But it seems like she really has an interest in his future and wanting him to go have a great life. And I think there's something really special or moving in that, isn't there? Yeah. The last thing we want to do to the person we love the most is break their heart. And the minute she lets that diagnosis sink in, she realizes, I'm going to devastate my husband. I'm going to ruin him. And I have to work against that. I have to acknowledge that he's going to be lost and grieving and ruined, and I have to help him

walk through that. And as someone who's suffered very profound losses in my life, I know that you don't ever get over a death of someone, especially an untimely death. But, you know, at first it's like this 300 pound sack you carry on your back. And it's not that it gets lighter. It's that you get stronger and better able to carry it. And I think that that's what Lauren is trying to do. And she knows he'll need help. And so these letters provide that for her. And she's also very determined not just to help him after she dies, but to make the time she has left very full, very happy, despite the fact that she's on oxygen and has to ride a scooter, you know, and despite the fact that she can't travel anymore, she's,

she's really committed to, to living as beautifully and as, as fully as possible, which doesn't mean she doesn't have her moments, you know, she has her breakdowns and her, you know, terrifying grief and fear and all that. She's a normal person. Yeah. It's the experience of life. Sometimes the good, the bad and the ugly. So what else can you tease out from us about the book without giving too much away, of course? Well, the book is structured around Josh's tasks, but it's also told, as I mentioned earlier in reverse from Lauren recognizing that her time is is very short to kind of spooling backwards to you know earlier

in the diagnosis and then getting the diagnosis and before the diagnosis and before she she was dating Josh and so you learn about their love story that way. And I think one of the things that I don't necessarily keep first and forefront in my mind is that this book is a love story. And it's also the story of an excellent marriage. You know, it's kind of a how-to in some respects, how to support your spouse, how to, you know, be strong when they're weak and be vulnerable so they can comfort you. And, you know, their marriage is very happy and very easy. I think there's a line in there that, you know, love wasn't hard. It wasn't complicated. It was just the way they lived. And,

and so I, you know, writing this as my daughter is, is getting married, you know, it was very poignant to think about this and, and think about loss in someone so young. But I, you know, something I witnessed myself, my dad died when I was young and he died in a car accident. So, you know, here and gone, the snap of a fingers and your life changes. And I watched my mom, you know, become a different person. And, you know, it was one of the most influential things that happened to me, not just my dad dying, but seeing my mom and her grief and how she could come out of it bit by bit and learn to carry that burden a little more easily. So that gave you something to work with maybe how he's going to process his thing and come

out the other side? Yeah. And I, you know, I talked to widowers and widows, especially the young ones, you know, the people who think, oh, we have, you know, 50, 60 years together. And oh, we only had four or two or 17, you know, so I love research. And so in the course of my research, I was talking to this group of widows and widowers online, they graciously let me into their forum. And also a woman, a young woman who has this disease, who has idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. And that was incredible to talk to someone who's walking the walk. She was absolutely thrilled that I was writing about it because it will bring attention to this all too common disease. People think it's sort of an old person's disease, like you had to smoke for 40 years, but it's not. And she knows someone who's 20 and has this. And the prognosis is you have

three to five years after being diagnosed. So talking to Charlene was so, so wonderful. And it gave me insight that I could not have had otherwise about, you know, how hard life is when you have an illness like this and how you have to plan. You know, if I'm going to cook dinner, then I'm going to have to plan a rest. And if I, you know, if I'm going to my parents' house for Christmas, I'm going to have to, you know, take a nap during the day. And also, you know, her attitude of, you know, don't write me off just yet. I'm 32 years old and, you know, we'll see how it goes, you know, that nothing is certain. And, you know, you hear all those stories of, oh, the doctors gave me six months and here I am 30 years later. And that doesn't happen with Lauren, but Charlene really helped me understand how you can be joyful and going to do all these adventures that you always wanted to do, even though you might have to have an oxygen tank on your back. That's really an interesting perspective. Maybe we all need to learn that more, you know, finding joy and sometimes your most darkest moments and that perspective,

because there's so many people that their lives are, you know, not perfect, but their lives are pretty good and they don't have a disease and they can't find happiness. And yet people that are going through that sort of challenging experience. Is this the first time you've done this sort of story progression pattern with your books? Yeah, it was very challenging to write that way. The way I write a book is I write chapters or scenes in separate documents. So whichever is speaking to me first or most loudly, I run with that because for me, writing books is very hard.

I don't just sit down and a month later have a book. It takes me a long time, a lot of struggle and despair and self-hatred. I'm writing a book, it takes me a long time, a lot of struggle and despair and self-hatred. I'm writing a book right now. It's my first, so I think I'm at the self-hatred part. Call me. We can talk. So I wrote Lauren's story chronologically, basically. So the first time she meets Joshua, she can't stand him and her either, you know, and so we start from there with her in college, and go to the end of her life. And then I wrote Josh's chapters based on the letters. And then I had to kind of stitch the whole thing together like a quilt, not all these, you know, all these chapters floating around. And I, you know, it was very adventurous, I guess,

as a writer to tell a story in reverse in Lauren's perspective and keep Josh's moving forward and kind of have them echo each other in certain parts. So yeah, it was a bit challenging. I think it's really rewarding to read. It's definitely a different way to tell a story. Mm-hmm. I like it. I think it's brilliant because you can hear her voice, her intent, what she's trying to do. And it's like this voice that's coming from behind wherever you want to take and put it. And what do you think? Because it's a little bit sad.

And as you mentioned, it's a love story. What do you think readers are going to come away from with the book or maybe what they'll learn or what are your thoughts on what someone's overall thing is when they walk away from after they buy your book and they read it, they're going to walk away from? I think they will be profoundly moved, all cried out and left with this really uplifting, hopeful feeling. And, you know, I mentioned like, oh, I'm writing a book about dying during COVID. But in a way, it's the best book you could read, I think, because it is so hopeful. It's very realistic and gritty in parts. Lauren is not a saint. You know, she's not this angel who floats down and guides Josh mystically through the year.

They both struggle. They fight. They're a normal couple. But I think the whole experience of reading this book and the whole job that I have as an author is to make my readers feel and give them an emotional experience. So I think that more than any other book I've written, I've done that here. Wow. You know, that this book, I think, is an important book about life and death and loss and love and finding your way back to happiness after the worst thing you can imagine has happened. Yeah.

Because the alternative is to be defeated by that and to be stuck there, miserable, lonely, you know, isolated for the rest of your life. And that's a long time. You know, that's a long time to be stuck and to be focusing on the bad things that happened so I think it's a real lesson in in courage and in in in partnership and and I think they'll really walk through the book with these characters and love them dearly. The early reviews have been saying just that, like, I will never forget this book. And, you know, I'm so glad I read it. And I used up three boxes of tissues. So I always say, my books should make you laugh, cry, and then laugh again. So, you know, there's very funny scenes in this book. There had to be, right? And there's, you know, there's, of course, some very poignant and heartbreaking scenes. But as a reader, that's what I love. I love a book that really carries me through this emotional journey where like my heart is pounding or I'm crying or laughing out loud. So I,

I think I can guarantee readers that they will get all of that with this book. Awesome sauce. You get the full gambit and you get the full gambit. Did you, did you, did you see any, you know,

the one thing that's interesting about your book and how it goes through, you know, we've all kind of been going through this kind of weird process in the last year with COVID or been, you know, we've had to think about our feelings. We have to maybe prepare for loss. You know, I was worried. I wanted to keep my mother and my two sisters survive through this. I was lucky many people were not and they lost loved

ones. And, you know, we kind of all went through this moment of where we had to reassign our values. Like to me, I had to look around and go, well, my family needs to become the most important thing to me. Not, you know, all this, all these stupid things. Cause coronavirus isn't going to take my speakers and my car. Coronavirus is going to take the people I love. And those are the people that I usually can't live without. So we kind of went through that journey. Do you think this book might help people that maybe have been through a loss and, and give them kind of that there's kind of sometimes experience of watching someone go through something where you learn and you go i i could actually use that for what i'm what's

happening to me right now yeah i think that you know there are lessons to take but it's not like a preachy book it's not a how to get get over this it's i think they'll relate to josh whether they've lost a spouse or a parent or grandparent, you know, loss is loss, right? You're, you know, you're my elderly 93 year old grandfather died. And it was devastating, you know, because he was such a big influence in my life and, and such a wonderful role model. And, and, and of course, I'd never lived without him. So, you know, my mom was 70 when, when her dad died and, you know, you think like, well, what are you complaining about? She's never lived without her dad there. You know, it's, it's, there's not like who gets to grieve more, but I think that

they'll recognize themselves in Josh and, and in Lauren and in, in Jen, Lauren's sister, Sarah, the parents, you know, she had a little nephew who is completely unfiltered in his response to her grief, you know, and it seems like Josh almost envies him that purity of just being able to wail and scream, you know? And so I think they'll, they'll see themselves in Josh. They'll recognize these emotions that he and Lauren go through. And just by kind of walking alongside him, they might be able to say, oh, that that's me. Oh yeah. I remember like the first night that I slept through the night after my husband died and how guilty I felt afterwards. And there's so much comfort in knowing that you're not the night after my husband died and how guilty I felt afterwards. And there's so much comfort in knowing that you're not the only one.

And one of my favorite scenes is very brief in the book, but it's the middle of the night. Josh can't sleep. It's been a few months. He doesn't want to wake anybody up and, you know, bother them. So he calls Apple care. And he gets this nice guy, the Apple techs are so nice and so friendly. And he pretends that he lives in Hawaii and that his wife is alive. And he's just telling the guy little fun facts about Hawaii where he's visited once. And he's pretending to download the new operating system. But he just wants a voice in the middle of the night and to pretend that he is that guy whose wife have tried all these things and and experienced these things and found comfort in strange places yeah i mean we all go through that with our loss and stuff and and you know it's just it's a challenge when you lose things and then there's

a process of grieving that's the thing i hate the worst is the grieving part because i always i always go oh crap i got to do those steps. And they take time. You can't just like fast forward through the grieving part. And they don't go in order. And it's like, oh, I've gone through denial. So that won't happen again. Surprise, you're in denial six months later.

And one of the most beautiful books I've ever read about, about grief and loss is Joan Didion's The Year of Magical Thinking. And that was a, you know, when, when I have, I've lost my dad, I lost a baby many years ago. And, you know, that magical thinking can be so comforting, comforting. And, you know, you can think like, well, you know, I'll pick up the phone and call dad and or, you know, oh, my son would be 26 now. And, you know, I picture him in our kitchen with my other kids and those kinds of things. And, you know, it's like, it's so sad. And yet it's so comforting and you know, whatever gets you through the day on some, you know,

whatever you need to tell yourself. Yeah. AT&T sends our show phones and we've had a relationship with them for 12 years, reviewing phones. And so I use Google voice as a centralized phone number to, and all the phones forward and over the years into this Google Voice. So if you call me, you're usually calling Google Voice. And then it will ring any phone that I have.

And before my father passed away, he'd been calling me because he was having, you know, minor heart attacks and strokes. And he would call me and leave messages and I'd call him back. And he was renowned for leaving messages. And I don't usually listen to people's messages. I'm like, you call me and leave messages and I'd call him back. And he was renowned for leaving messages. And I don't usually listen to people's messages. I'm like, you call me and I'll call you back. And two or three years after he'd passed, I was going through my Google Voice stuff. And I'm like, I think I was looking for some message that I'd had from someone. I was like, when was it that they told me?

And I found his voicemail messages two or three years later. And I hadn't listened to him at all. And so there was kind of a comfort in hearing his voice again, kind of almost like, wow, maybe he's still here. It kind of really messed with you. And the beautiful part about Google Voice, I was able to download the sound bites and still have them. Yeah.

That's so nice to hear that voice. I remember a similar experience with seeing a video and my dad was talking in the background and I hadn't heard his voice for so long. And I was like, oh sad forever, but you'll never forget that person. And some days it'll smack you in the side of the head. And some days you'll think, oh my gosh, that was so fun that time that we had, you know, and I think Joe Biden said very beautifully, you know, I, I, you know, pray for the day when the memory of your loved one brings you a smile instead of tears. And, yeah, we all, you know, we all look forward to those days. Those are always the best days. Yeah.

And, you know, getting back to like the lessons of COVID, I think we all learned to appreciate our friends and family once we were cut off from them, you know, and find different ways to connect. We had a game night via Zoom, you know, where we were playing Scattergories with my extended family and, you know, who's in your bubble and how much closer you keep them because you only get 10 people. And, you know, also I think the simple pleasures of being able to take a walk, you know, get out of your house. It was a long winter, you know, it was a long winter. And I don't think spring has ever been more welcome or beautiful. I just want to go run around in the sun.

But this is a beautiful book. Anything you want to tell us before we go out? Well, you know, it comes out June 8th. It's already a critical darling. I'm so happy to say that. And the title Pack Up the Moon comes from the beautiful poem by W.H. Auden, Funeral Blues. And I think it's the fourth stanza where, you know, he's basically, it starts, everyone will know this line, stop all the clocks, keep the dogs from barking. And in the line about pack up the moon, he says, pack up the moon, dismantle the stars for he is gone. And it's that feeling of

the world can't go on without my person. And in my book, Pack Up the Moon, Josh references that poem and says, the clocks start ticking again, and the world starts going on. But that poem is such a beautiful expression of losing someone you love. And I guess I wanted to use that title, Pack Up the Moon, but the moon and the sun will shine again, the loss. So it goes on sale June 8th. And I hope everyone will love it once they've read it. I think they will. And you're a great author too. So this should be wonderful.

Give us your plugs as we go out. Okay. So my website is www.KristenHiggins.com. And I've got a Facebook page, Kristen Higgins Books. And I'm salty on Twitter. If you're interested in that, there, Kristen Higgins Books, and I'm salty on Twitter. If you're interested in that, there are Kristen Higgins Instagram, Kristen Higgins, and Kristen is spelled with an A, K-R-I-S-T-A-N. It's my mom's maiden name, actually. That's awesome. Well, thank you very much for coming on the show and sharing your beautiful

story and the written, and I think it will inspire and touch a lot of different people. Thank you so much, Chris. It was great being here. Thank you, Kristen. And thanks for tuning in. Uh, be sure to order the book pack up the moon. You can get it at your local booksellers or Amazon June 8th, 2021. You want to pre-order that baby so you can take and get the first crack at it. So you can beat all the people in your book club to read it the first. Thanks so much for tuning in. Go to youtube.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss. Go to the Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, TikTok,

all the groups that are out there. Just go see them all, follow them all, and all that good stuff. Go to goodreads.com, 4Chess, Chris Voss. Be good to yourselves, take care, and we'll see you guys next time.