The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Plan to Recover: Your Mini Journal for Recovery and Self-Discovery By Andrea M Epting

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Plan to Recover: Your Mini Journal for Recovery and Self-Discovery By Andrea M Epting https://amzn.to/4a9OCsi Lightninginabottle.biz Plan to Recover: Your Mini Journal for Recovery and Self-Discovery is an essential tool and helpful resource in the initial phases of any recovery and self discovery journey. Thoughtfully curated and specifically designed for the person looking to achieve long-term success in recovery while gaining personal insight, awareness, emotional intelligence and spiritual integrity. Use the “Plan to Recover” journal to stay recovery minded, practice priorities, and build healthy relationships with Self and Others - 12 hours at a time. Your 90-day mini journal to get started on your recovery. Enjoy finding joy in the journey!

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from the chrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the show. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in.

And as always, the Chris Foss Show is a family that loves you but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as your father did because, I don't know, he preferred your brother. Anyway, guys, I prefer the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to Goodreads.com. I'm scarring people and bringing up trauma from the beginning of the show. This is what we do here. It's all about trauma. Go to Goodreads.com, for it says Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, forceschrisfast, all those crazy places on the internet.

You know them. We always have the most amazing authors and minds on the show. I'm the idiot of the show with the mic. That's what we have to do. We have to balance the show, as it were. We have a brilliant author on the show. Her latest book came out January 11, 2023. It's called Plan to Recover, Your Mini-Journal for Recovery and Self-Discovery.

Andrea M. Epting is on the show with us today. She'll be talking to us about her latest book. She's been over 20 years of experience in the field of mental health. She's a practicing professional counselor, master addiction counselor, EMDR certified therapist, certified sex addiction therapist. I should talk to her. Yeah, yeah. And an approved clinical supervisor. I just like it. She's been a...

Who doesn't? Andrea's been a private practitioner since 2007 and specializes in the treatment of trauma, initiated process addictions, dopamine deficiencies, sexual dysfunctions compulsive behaviors and part of a trail she just described my sex life she is the founder of the ceo of nco of heads up guidance services inc where clinicians provide pro bono services to meet community mental health needs and she is the founder of Why Is Mine Industries, Lightning in a Bottle Digital Courses, and the host of the Direct Impact Podcast.

Welcome to the show. How are you, Andrea? Oh, Chris, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you and your audience. So thank you. There you go. Yeah. Some of the things that are in your bio describe the last seven marriages.

You and a lot of people. So let's start off. Was there any dot coms we need to get out of you so people know where to find you? I appreciate you asking lightninginabottle.biz. So www.lightninginabottle.biz.

There you go. Keep it easy. So tell us about this new book, Plan to Recover. Yeah, so it's a mini journal, a 90-day journal for recovery and self-discovery. And it's what we call a bullet journal. And we basically plan to recover. So it has a lot to do with planning and automating healthy habits, behaviors, AM routines, PM routines, and then reflecting on self as part of a daily check-in.

And so we really have seen that when people show up to this journal regularly and daily, they can automate new behaviors in 90 days. There you go. Yeah. How come you didn't make one for unhealthy habits? This is about taking your unhealthy habits and either putting them on the shelf or spending some time just changing your relationship with them. Or you can put in some healthier habits or things you might want to engage with more often. There you go.

Or you can just put in unhealthy habits you want to develop more. Drink more vodka. Don't do that, kids. It's bad. It takes me to say that. So there you go. What made you come up with the idea for this? Just years of experience with both mental health and addiction recovery. I really have seen that when people are motivated towards change, they still really struggle with implementing it. So

motivation just really isn't enough because they don't really have those trust bonds or connections with themselves to trust that they're going to show up every day. And this really helps them to stay accountable to self and build a healthier relationship to that person inside. So it makes a difference. Yeah. So you've been in this business for a long time. Tell us a little bit about how you grew up, what motivated you want to get into this business and where you know you've arrived today yeah so i got into this field relatively haphazardly i i went to school for my car and suddenly i was i i really i went to school for uh design and i was going to be an interior designer. That's what I went for. And I just felt this pull and I really started enjoying my psychology classes.

I really loved what I was getting into and I was finding out more about myself and others and my relationships. And I also really liked my religion classes. So I just double majored in religion and in psychology instead of getting that design degree I went for. So that's how that happened. You're technically doing interior design. You're just doing the mind, right? Oh, good call. Yeah.

Yeah, the internal landscape. This is why they give me five bucks a day for the show. Yeah, that's good. And they throw they give me five bucks a day for a show. Yeah, that's good. And they throw me some scraps every now and then for food, and they let me out for walks in the sun once a day for an hour. That's important. Yeah, that's what they tell me. So this kind of was a journal that you developed from your years of being in the business

and understanding some of the different aspects of what people are struggling with. Yeah. And also paying attention to my own struggles, what was going on inside of me, the things I was struggling with implementing on a consistent basis. And so it's the journal I developed for myself that wound up really changing my life. And so I thought, geez, if this is helping and working for me, it will help and work for my clients and probably all human beings. I mean, it's developed for humans. It's not developed for a specific type of human. It's developed for all of us who have certain struggles and tendencies and weaknesses that it would behoove us to look at.

Why do you do one for dogs and cats? Like, why leave them out? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. Why do you think, Chris? They don't read. Plus, they're really bad with their hand-eye coordination of turning pages. I think it's the lack of thumbs, perhaps.

The thumbs, yeah. The opposable thumbs. You got it. The opposable thumbs. Maybe hard to write in your journal. Yeah. That's what I tell my dogs. I look at them.

I'm like, when do you guys quit laying around this place and get some jobs? And they're like, we got no thumbs. So that's kind of a problem, I guess, which is probably better because otherwise they'd be opening doors and getting into stuff and causing all sorts of problems. And they're huskies. They do that anyway. One question I have for you that I've, you know, I studied, I'm an amateur layman, study a psychologist, but study of psychologist, that's not even a word.

No, no, but I mean, it should be. I know, I heard once, and I can't remember who said that. It might have been Dr. Drew. Someone said that a lot of people that are in addiction recovery for and in rehab for drugs and alcohol and different things of that nature have childhood sexual trauma is that true there are all types of sexual trauma there's overt and covert so sometimes it's more of the messages that are received, the comments, the triangulation, the enmeshment. So, when I talk about that, it's kind of like when

the son is playing the role of the father, that is sexual abuse. So, when people hear sexual abuse, I think they tend to think of that overt, obvious, physical sexual abuse and assault. So, I say that to say, yes, a lot of people have experienced sexual trauma, but not in that traditional sense. Huh. Yeah. When the son is playing the role of the father, that doesn't happen much, does it?

All the time. Really? We had somebody on the show recently that happened too. I told him it was rare, but you see more. Oh, no. He probably does. Yeah. Triangulation and the children meeting the needs of the parents instead of the parents meeting their needs. That's pretty common. Yeah. Now, not to minimize any of this, but I do have to give this joke in here. Can I experience trauma from just not getting any sex in the last year that's a joke we call that sexual anorexia

i'm gonna put that in my tinder profile i'm suffering from sexual anorexia right now but not to minimize folks i'm just sometimes we have to apply some comedy and levity to things you you work with people with counseling and stuff like that do you do you do any of that work that people can work with you on or is that a local thing you're doing is that is that yeah is that any of the services or coaching maybe you offer on a website or yeah so lightning in a bottle they do have coaches and that's something that we are working on. I have nonprofits locally in Savannah, Georgia, and a private group practice called Resolve Strategies, Inc. And clinicians are supposed to practice within their state still. There are some changes underway that's going to allow us to practice across state lines.

I'm excited about that. But until then, we will call what we do across state lines coaching. Yes. about that. But until then, we will call what we do across state lines coaching. It's kind of interesting how the world needs to change a little bit when it comes to licensing and stuff. Seriously, but I guess it's power and money of states and what they can do. Follow the dollar sign. Just follow it. I mean, it seems like if you're certified and professionally licensed and have the schooling and training, we need more of you guys to operate nationally and internationally. That's right.

There's these coaches, and I'm not throwing all coaches on the bus, folks, but there's some of these coaches that are out selling crystals and shit. They can work nationally, but licensed folks can't. It seems a little backwards and we're we're really big on the show about how if you're going to seek therapy go see a professional don't thank you don't talk to amy joe who's covered in tattoos and believes that crystals or whatever i don't know why i'm turning against the three people that listen to the show that believe in crystals, but stop it. Knock it off.

I seek professional help. Like, seriously. I've dated all my life. 35 years now, I should just hand out therapist cards on first dates. So do the work. When you're healed, it's a whole lot different. You're like, I'm not getting involved with you. You're not healed.

What is the importance of using your journal and having am and pm routines and yeah good good question i was not able to implement or automate anything consistently this is just me personally i could not do that no matter what kind of information, training, education or background I had. I could not do it if I didn't have an AM routine and a PM routine that supported those changes. And I just figure if I struggled with that, other people are too. And so we say we want to change, but there are so many barriers and things stopping us and impeding our ability to do that. Like I said, even if we're motivated. And so I have found that if you really support the behavior changes with AM routines, PM routines,

you can find long-term success. And this is about automating things and having healthy habits that are sustainable. That's going to give you that lifestyle shift that promotes overall health and wellness and self-love, I hope. So do I need to do AM and PM then, journaling? Is that better than just doing it? Not necessarily. I journal in the PM, but I have an AM practice that supports the three

main focuses that I have for that 90 days. So in the beginning of your journal, you've got this what's called the let's get moving page. And you establish three behaviors that you really want to focus on for the next 90 days. And so the AM routine and PM routine are supporting those three behaviors or habits. Okay, so maybe I want to disconnect from alcohol for 90 days. Maybe I want to see how that impacts my sleep So maybe I want to disconnect from alcohol I want to sleep seven to nine hours and I want to drink 120 ounces of water. Those are your three behaviors How does the am routine and pm routine support that at night? I'm filling up my water bottle So in the morning, it's ready to go. Yeah yeah so all of these things really help support change

there you go yeah it makes sense you want to make sure that you're ready for the next day i have one of those nice reverse osmosis machines you have to you have to fill it to to use it but you know one of the things that's important if you're going to intermittent fast or if you want to eat and drink healthy you want to have really clean water and it makes a difference in the taste too like i'll tell people i'm intermittent fasting and drinking water and they're like oh i hate the taste of water and i'm like if you got to get good water filtered right tasty good it makes all the difference add some lemons yeah what's your window i do intermittent fasting too i do it like a 16 8 okay or i try to get to 16. Sometimes I'm a 12-12,

but it kind of depends on when I want to, I start having thoughts about murdering people because I'm hungry. There's that. Yeah. The judge says I can't do that anymore. I get one of the seven ankle bracelets removed next week too. Yeah. That's actually one of the triggers we identify in the journal is, you know, hungry and tired so murdering somebody that falls under anger or rage oh there you go the trigger is somewhere between hungry and angry yeah yeah there's some people that are like that you're just. They want to destroy the world. And you're just like, maybe you're just hungry. Maybe you just need a Snickers bar.

That's right. And those triggers can really impact our behaviors for sure. So my window is from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. So it's a little rough sometimes. Yeah. 8 p.m. to 3 p.m.? 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. 8 a.m. to 3 p.m.? 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. 8 a.m. to 3 p.m., there you go.

I mean, breakfast is really, you don't need breakfast if you have strong enough coffee. Definitely not. I have coffee that's got a lot of extra caffeine in it that's probably not good for my heart. But, I mean, I got to wake up. Who cares if it takes 10 years off my life? Yeah. And that was really the hardest part for me, switching to that time, because I never wanted breakfast. Now it forces me to have it, which has been a good change. A good change. Yeah.

I mean, some people can do it either way. There are some people that, by flipping it the other way, they do better with it. So, hey, it works. Whatever works. Yeah. Whatever gets you out of your comfort zone, which is why I chose to do that. I'm like, you know, we have to really push our comfort zones and make these changes. So, it's important.

There you go. Now, you talk about with the journal that people can use behavior automation to help them develop healthy habits. How does the automation part work? The automation works in the sense that you are tracking in this bullet journal every day that you participate in or achieve that wanted behavior. So if the wanted behavior is to abstain from alcohol, you're tracking every single day that you are not drinking. So it's a little bit of, again, just mindfulness and noticing and paying attention. And it's also a little bit of, again, just mindfulness and noticing and paying attention. And it's also a little bit of that dopamine kick that you get every time you get to check that box and be like, yep, I did what I said I was going to do.

I said I wasn't going to do it. I did it and I feel great about it. That's excellent. So after 90 days of being consistent, you really can automate that behavior. You can change your habits. And of course, there are going to be things like if you find that maybe there was an addiction at play, maybe you find that there was some dependency. Yes, of course, it's going to be more than 90 days that you're going to have to keep that on your list. That could be up to two years,

but that's okay. It's there and you're paying attention to it. There you go. By taking and doing that, you mentioned the dopamine hit. I mean, being self-accountable sounds like it's a large part of your journal. And being self-accountable is so important, you know, because until you can be self-accountable, can you really, you know, take a hard look at what you're doing and make change? Yeah, good question. I think that we can have some level of insight and awareness without being able to hold ourselves accountable. Yeah, I think it's just, it's what we call these stages of change when you look at behaviors and you look at addiction. Some people are in pre-contemplation, so they're not ready. They're not even looking at changing. Some people are

contemplating a change. So yeah, they're aware, but they're not ready to do anything about it. And then you can move into preparation where it's, I'm preparing now to make a change. I do realize it and I am starting to hold myself accountable. And then they might move into action where they start being consistent pre what was that term again pre pre-contemplation pre-contemplation that's yeah yes when stages sure we all have it's called denial yeah oh i definitely been i live on denial man the Nile, man. Yeah. It's a great river. Yeah. In Egypt. Living on the Nile. There you go.

So even though, is pre-contemplation where you're thinking, I'm in denial about what's going on, but maybe I should make some changes? Nope. Maybe it's time. That's contemplation. You start to contemplate it. In pre-contemplation, it's really, really you know it's say you get in trouble at work because you tested positive for marijuana or something you're not looking at marijuana as the problem you're looking at the job as the problem you're looking at the government as a

problem you're looking at everything else you're not even contemplating the fact that you smoked in a job that you knew you would get fired for as the problem my boss is in the bathroom with me doing it so i thought it was okay there you go i handed out brownies and now hr is calling me i don't know what's going on but no addiction is a real thing i i never understood addiction till till i dated you know my mother had talked about her father had been an alcoholic and I never understood it because I, I never had a problem with addiction. I took a personality test like when I was really young and they said I didn't have an addiction personality, but I remember I dated someone who had an addiction problem with alcohol and it was a really weird addiction too where

her father had her father was a working banker and so monday through friday he would go do banking he was like a vice president he's like up there in the old world banking days and so he would do his work monday through friday as a functioning alcoholic and then as soon as he got home on friday he would disappear into his tiki bar in the basement yeah and from friday night sunday night he would be soused to the to the point of no return i guess yeah and he would disappear from his family basically i mean i suppose you go down there and hang out with him i don't know if he was a mean drunk but she was a mean drunk but it was weird because she would only drink on the weekends and then she kept it very

hidden the wild turkey was underneath the yeah sink in the in the things and so for a long time i couldn't figure out what was going on why we were breaking up every weekend but then the rest of time everything was fine and then i really started to understand addiction i went to a couple of meetings with her and and really started to see you know what the difference was between that and maybe abuse of alcohol which I've done you know where you drink it too much and you're you're you but you're not addicted where you don't get the shakes or the things and then the other thing was is her physiology would change it

was like dr. Jekyll mr. Hodge so she wasn't a fun drunk either either which i imagine i don't know are most people that are addicted like that or is it just some people that have that opposite effect of whatever yeah you mentioned about four things that i could hover over and highlight a few misconceptions of addiction is that it matters how much you use. It does not matter at all how much you use. It's what happens to you when you do. And it's do you do things that you didn't intend on doing? Okay. Was that part of the plan that night? Okay.

So it's not how much. It's more about why and what happens. Is it okay if you don't remember then that's fine no no because somebody remembers usually yeah yeah and then one of the other misconceptions is that it's you know just about you know chemicals because oftentimes when people don't have a problem, like generationally speaking, so you might have a mom and dad who have no contact with chemicals, alcohol or drugs, because their parents were addicts, but then the children, they usually will, you know, it manifests through behaviors, not always the use of chemicals. And so you'll see things like rageaholics,

right? So the rage comes out, but nobody's medicating it with alcohol or drugs. So that's, you know, one of the things that I noticed too. And then also the difference between use, abuse, or misuse, right? And addiction and dependency. So the misconception is that if you're having withdrawals, that's addiction. No, that's dependence. And you can only become physically dependent on certain chemicals like opioids and alcohol. So like sniff a bunch of Coke, you're not going to have physical withdrawals. You'll feel like crap, but it's not the same. And there is a difference between addiction and dependency. That explains it more because I've always wondered about that.

You know, I had friends that would smoke, smoke pot. They'd smoke cigarettes, you know, alcohol issues. Man, if they didn't get their hit, they'd start jonesing. That's right. And I abused alcohol through about 20 years of my life where I drank pretty heavy. I'm kind of a, I don't know if I was, I'm trying to deny it, aren't I? I've always been a big guy and I have a high tolerance for everything like drugs. I don't even really get into it.

It kind of helped me not get into drugs because I have high tolerance for it. I have to have a lot of something to enjoy it. Even like aspirin. It takes several, it takes a lot more aspirin than normal to to affect me and and so it was good for me but you know i'd have to drink a lot of alcohol plus i'm a kind of a big guy so it takes a lot to get to to where you need to be yeah and that makes it more dangerous when you have a higher tolerance doesn't it i imagine it does yeah that would make sense yeah yeah but i never had the jonesing thing like my friends would be like you're addicted too and i'm like no i don't

get the shakes dude like if i if i run out of vodka bottle and i you know i'm like hey let's tie one on for the night or whatever and i'm like uh shit the vodka bottle's empty or half empty or whatever i'm just like fucking i'm just gonna go to sleep and I'll go buy a bottle tomorrow. I don't care. But I've watched my friends go through that. So the difference between that is dependence. Yeah. Alcohol dependence is when you see what happens

when they're withdrawing from the alcohol. Yeah. You're in Vegas. You've seen Leaving Las Vegas. Is that what it's called? Yeah. That's dependency. Yeah. But still, if I was abusing it, then that's still addiction because I was still going after it all the time. It could be abuse.

It could be misuse. The addiction part comes in when you continue to do it despite consequences. Ah. Ah. Well, I mean, good or bad bad consequences they're usually bad or negative most of my consequences were just good you feel good you're happy you go you know tie one on for the night you go to go to bed it's not good for your sleep i used to that's true i think it was good for my sleep but i've learned better i in 2020 i just finally quit it and I think it was good for my sleep, but I've learned better. In 2020, I just finally quit it.

And part of it was because I was in my 50s and my body's like, we're not doing this with you anymore. Yeah. And then I also kind of tuned into my body. I got really healthy, lost a lot of weight, started eating really healthy. And then I started noticing that a few hours of tying one on on Friday night translated to three days of bloating and dehydration and amen just feeling just feeling ground down i just i was just finally i was just like doing the math

i'm like a couple hours of fun on friday night is not worth the three days of just i would just drag for two or three days i could feel my body yeah and so i just tuned into it and i just kind of i just it just kind of disappeared one day i just so i just tuned into it and i just kind of i just it just kind of disappeared one day i just said i'm not doing anymore and i think now i mean i'm definitely noticing and i'm one of them people really are paying more attention to their bodies and their hormonal shifts and changes later in life and they're like i can't do this alcohol thing anymore and so they just stop they they stop drinking they get sober curious they disconnect for a while and they and they don't go back i mean that's what i was i was like i'm just not

going to drink for 30 days and then four years later i haven't you know i don't drink sober curious i like that i've been sober curious the but yeah i just i just you know the bloating you get from the water retention your body overcompensates. And so I just be like, there it is. But I imagine, you know, being self-aware and being self-accountable really makes a difference. Maybe I went through some of that. Yeah. Yeah.

It makes all the difference. And just being willing, at least with yourself, okay, to take an honest look at what's going on and what will it actually take for change to occur. And this journal is an opportunity for people to look at certain behaviors and see what else needs to change for that to change. It's usually not as simple as, you know, I'm going to, you know, just look at this behavior every day and it's going to change. You know, it's not enough to just track it. So, this isn't just a bullet journal that tracks. It helps you evaluate. It helps you to go deeper. It helps you to look at the areas of your life. You know, Chris, I heard you on another one of your episodes and you mentioned that you're ADHD. Yeah. I am too. And people who are dopamine deficient, which is ADHD people, executive functioning is a real challenge.

And so I think this is why this journal worked so well for me is because it really helped me with my executive functioning. The things that I just, I would get overwhelmed and I couldn't really, you know, stay consistent. Yeah. I had my ADHD really beat. And then I had my testosterone tested about seven, eight months ago and found that my testosterone was a little bit low. It wasn't too low, but it was low.

And so then I got on testosterone and it's been largely beneficial, but the one thing it's brought back is the ADHD. I mean, it's very connected to our hormones and what we're producing and not producing. And so it makes a lot of sense. I did love the way that you talked about it though, as a superpower, because I am such a believer that my ADHD is why I am as good at the things that I am good at. Yeah. You know, it's, it's good. I've had more trouble managing it and I, I, I need to focus on it. My mom said to me the other day, she goes, your ADHD is really bad. And I was like, squirrel. Yeah, I love that. I'm going to focus on my ADHD.

Squirrel. I'm going to focus on my ADHD. Wait, there's something else. But yeah, it's always been a challenge, but it is a CEO's disease. They call it that, as you probably know, because most CEOs have it. And entrepreneurs in general. In general. But it's the madman that helps us create.

And the biggest thing is struggling to harness it. When I was young, as a teenager, I would check the door like 20 times a night to make sure it was locked. I think my brother would wash his hands until they bleed. He did that part of the ADHD. Did you know that there is an OCD type of ADHD? Really? Yeah. So I have that, which is an OCD type of ADHD.

And it contributes to things like repetitive body movements and checking. But when you have the combination of the two, it actually helps quite a bit to manage your symptoms because you do have more of that hyper awareness and focus on certain things. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. The hyper, maybe I have OCD too.

I'm not sure. Maybe. I don't know. Every time I go to check, I go find something else to do. But, you know, I know the great thing about your book and the journal thing is a lot of my friends who have addiction, it's a daily fight for them. Absolutely. They've been in recovery for years or 10 years, even 20 or 30. It's still a daily battle for them.

And so they have to make sure that they're on point every day that they you know every day they greet the day going it's another day it's another one day at a time one day at a time and i know and i i feel that with my friends when i talk to them about what they go through with it and and you just go wow that's i mean good for you and fight the good fight and and and i'll pour one for you no i'm just kidding but yeah it it is and that's another thing that i really like about coming back to yourself coming back to your journal coming back to the rooms so that you can stay focused on you know the disease so the disease doesn't creep creep up and get you again because it's always like they say in the parking lot doing push-ups just waiting you know i i my girlfriend who had the alcohol issues eventually killed her so if you're out

listening please get help the she died of potassium deficiency she'd fallen and hit her head in the into the bathtub and so she was stuck in the bathtub and couldn't get out and her potassium deficiency from loss of potassium from alcohol consumption i didn't even know that was a thing but i had gone to one i think i went to two a meetings with her and i was trying to encourage her to go by being supportive and going her mother pretty much lived in al-anon uh and because you know she had the father then she had the daughter and then but i i remember sitting in there and hearing the stories and there was one guy who who he told the story about how he you know he he was drinking found himself in the viaduct under the viaduct and living on the streets and then got his together got out of addiction

got his family got a kid got a wife got a job everything was going good one day he walks into a bar next thing you know he's under a viadoc and he's lost everything. Yep. And I just hear the stories. And, you know, one of my friends, one of my friends, one of the, my girlfriend's had a girlfriend in the AA that was also an addict. And one day I sat down with her husband and I said, I don't know how you do it. And he goes, you need to be prepared. This is, this is, she's going to fall off the wagon all her life and everything else and i done his mortgage because his wife got drunk one day beat him and the kids and went off to wendover utah or wendover nevada and wrote an eighty thousand dollar check

against against you know the house and everything and and of course consequently blew it so i had to do a mortgage on him to bail him out so he could pay the casino but yeah he told he started telling me stories in life and i'm like i can't wow this isn't me this is this is the rest of my life i love her but i'm not going down that road you know when you look at the disease process when you look at how progressive and pervasive it is, it's very clear to me that it doesn't just want one person, but it wants everyone who cares about them. And it impacts everyone around them. So if someone's out there in the audience that's thinking about changing their bad habits, whether they just be like, I want to stop eating cheese because it's bad for me or something,

or fattening, or it's someone with addiction. What's some advice you would give to people on taking those first steps? Yeah. Gosh. There's a few things that I really look at as far as key ingredients. What are the key ingredients for success success and accountability is one of them. And so that can look like your journal. That can look like therapy.

That can look like your meetings. That can look like your sponsor. That can look like the 12 steps. But accountability and community, which can also look like those things. So community and connection. It really allows you to get into the third ingredient, which is humility. And humility is what it's all about at the end of the day. If I could put humility in a syringe and bend people over and inject it in them. I swear I would have people lined up around the block and they would be recovered immediately.

Can you set up shop outside the Congress? Hey, that would be great because humility is that healer. Humility is what we all need to be open honest vulnerable transparent intimate all of those things that we're missing so yeah and i think you know sadly with addicts the humility comes when they hit rock bottom when no one will talk to them anymore that's right destroyed all their relationships and you know there's a joke from Dennis Miller that the only time no one finds Christ on prom night in the back of a seat, in the back of the car, they only find it after they're sent to prison

and no one will talk to them anymore. So then you take a conversation with God. Sadly, I think a lot of addicts end up in that sort of situation where, you know, those are the stories I heard in AA. You know, people had to bottom out before they finally got it. But the humility of going, I need help. It's time to ask for help, you know.

It's the first step. It's powerlessness and unmanageability, you know, came to believe, right? It's what it's about is accepting that you can't do this on your own. You can do a ton of things on your own and you can do those well. But this is one of those things that you will not do in a vacuum. It requires community. It requires connection. It requires help and being humble enough to ask for it. I mean, a lot of the people that I know who are in early

recovery or even long-term recovery, they have a hard of the people that I know who are in early recovery or even long-term recovery, they have a hard time accepting still that they have needs. And they have an even harder of a time accepting or believing that other people can meet those for them. Yeah, I think humility. What are your thoughts? I mean, I don't want to crap on AA, but I know one of AA's big things is accepting that you don't have full control and put your hands in God. Yeah. And I'm an atheist. And, you know, hey, if that's what you need to find your way out of the darkness of addiction, God bless you, even though i'm an atheist but i the one concern i have about it is you know i i grew up in a cult of religion and believing that there was somebody up in the sky

mucking with me as an evil shithead sometimes or you can perceive it as such really wasn't very empowering to me and to be for for me self-reliance and self self-accountability means that i'm the i'm the last and final boss i'm the guy everything stops with me if i was to believe me for me personally that there was still some guy in the sky who i guess on shitty days decides to be shitty to me that really takes away my ability to be self-accountable. I don't know. Am I wrong here? I think that you share, you and millions, maybe billions share that same sentiment.

This is what I have to say to that is that, yes, recovery requires what we would call a spiritual awakening because you can't have recovery without some form of spiritual awakening. But when I look at God in the big book, or I look at God in a 12-step program, I say, capital G-O-D stands for good orderly direction. What is giving you good and orderly direction that is not leading you back to, you know, your addiction. And so for some people, that is their meeting. For some reason, for some people, it's their, you know, church. For some people, it's their therapist.

For some, I mean, good orderly direction can come from all sorts of things. It can come from inside i just i do think that is a required ingredient on the search for authenticity and humility a spiritual awakening is part of it there you go and i guess you know basically god and religion is a patriarchy and people like the idea that someone's looking over and has their best interests at heart i I guess some people can like that. It's just I see a lot of people who, I don't know if they're addicts or not, but they seem to use God in a very bad format as a catcher of all the things they do bad. You know, God made me do it.

And it's like fundamentalist. I don't think that religion should be utilized as a weapon. I do think it can be. Spiritual abuse happens all of the time. I don't think that religion should be utilized as a weapon. I do think it can be. Spiritual abuse happens all of the time. I see it every single day, and it really is a barrier to healing. Oh. Yeah.

That explains my childhood in the cult. I mean, you're not alone, I promise. There you go. I think I'm still being abused because I still have family in the cult. I mean, you're not alone, I promise. There you go. I think I'm still being abused because I still have family in the cult, so I have to deal with it still. I should probably think help. So what's the best way for someone to reach out if they're hearing in the audience that maybe I need to get some help? What's the best first step that you would advise people do?

Yeah, I really recommend that people go to a platform called Psychology Today and really look at people's areas of specialty. Make sure they are licensed in the state in which you are seeking services and make sure that they're specialized in the areas where you feel like you're really struggling and then interview them. Make sure they provide a free consultation where you go in free of charge and sit with them and see if they are a good fit for you because you want to interview them first, right? To make sure that that's who you want to partner with for your care. I see way too many people not fire their therapist early enough.

And so please shop around like you would for anything. I mean, my gosh, you're going to get three bids on having your toilet replaced. Go and make sure that the person that you're going to for your mental health is the right fit. That makes sense. That makes sense because you're trying to replace the toilet in your brain you know thank you get three bids damn it make sure that contractor is licensed as always thank you don't buy crystals people stop it in astrology knock it off both of you final thoughts to people to pitch out to pick up your book as we go out, I would just say it's time now. Healing and everything you need in you is in you and it's ready now. So go ahead and why don't you hop on lightninginabottle.biz or go to

Amazon. You can type in Andrea Epting or you can type in the Plan to recover mini journal. I'd love for you to engage with it and see what happens and how it changes your life. Changed mine. There you go. Every day, stay on point. That's the biggest problem we have. You know, we don't, we don't stay on point every day and you, you know, you start sloughing one day and they slough off the next and then you wake up and years have passed and you're like, gosh, she probably done that. So there you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, Andrea. Absolutely.

Thanks for having me, Chris. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. Order up the book wherever fine books are sold. Plan to recover. Your mini journal for recovery and self-discovery. And please, like Andrea said, if you feel like you need help, reach out. Do it. Don't wait until you hit rock

bottom or you hit that point where you're forced to be humble. You just don't want to be there, man. Just skip to the easy part or the good part, but please get help, seriously, especially if you know you have trauma or damage or any of those sort of things from childhood. Thanks so much for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschristmas, linkedin.com, 4chesschristmas, chrismas1, the TikTokity,

and all those crazy places you'll find on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.