The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Purposeful Performance: The Secret Mix of Connecting, Leading, and Succeeding by Jonathan Stanley

Starting point is 00:00:00 You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

Starting point is 00:00:42 There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are the latest things that makes it official. For 16 years in August of 2024, I guess we're in September now, There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are the latest things that makes it official. For 16 years in August of 2024, I guess we're in September now, we hit 16 years with the show, over 2,000 episodes. Some of the most brilliant minds that you can find on the planet. We literally scour the planet. We go door to door.

Starting point is 00:01:01 We knock on the doors. We're like, hey, are you really darn smart? Do you have a book? And you should come on the Chris Voss Show. That's literally what we do. I do it by hand, too. It's kind of like what the Mormons do when they knock on Saturday morning. That's what we do. We wake you up on your full hangover and be like, hey, you want to be on the Chris Voss Show? So anyway, guys, refer the show to your family, friends, and relatives you haven't already, because after 16 years, you better feel guilty already if you haven't. Go to goodreads.com it says christmas linkedin.com for it says christmas christmas one the tiktokity and all

Starting point is 00:01:30 those crazy places on the internet today we have another amazing author on the show with us today his hot new book is out august 21st 2024 it's called purposeful performance the secret mix of connecting leading and succeeding by Jonathan Stanley. And so you're going to learn the secrets. There's going to be secrets given away today, so you'll definitely want to tune in and share the show with your friends, relatives, and neighbors. Knock on your neighbor's door as well and just say, hey, Neil, it's the Chris Voss Show

Starting point is 00:01:58 right now. Jonathan Stanley is a renowned entrepreneur and business strategist with a rich background in global business development, particularly in immersive storytelling. As a founder and CEO, he grew his startup into an international brand, earning accolades like Small Business of the Year. His leadership philosophy emphasizes purpose-driven strategies and authentic leadership. He's based in Pennsylvania and continues to influence through consulting, coaching, public speaking, and volunteering, where he shares insights to help small businesses and startups achieve growth and influential results. Welcome to the story of the show, Jonathan.

Starting point is 00:02:40 How are you? I'm doing great, Chris. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming. We really appreciate you. Give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? That's www.simplestrategicplans.com.

Starting point is 00:02:54 There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside the book. Yeah, so the first half of the book is really about creating meaning inside your workplace as well as externally. And the second half of the book is a simple strategic framework that focuses on strategy, planning, and then, of course, execution. You mean I have to strategize and plan, do all that stuff if I want to succeed? Absolutely, Chris, you do.

Starting point is 00:03:24 I mean, the problem is most businesses don't have a plan, do all that stuff if I want to succeed? Absolutely, Chris, you do. I mean, the problem is most businesses don't have a plan, number one. Of the businesses that do try to tackle strategy, 90% of them fail at execution. But there's really a bigger problem at play here. And that's, a variety of small businesses simply can't get culture right. And when you get culture, great things happen. You know, the American workforce, from my perspective, is broken and we need to fix it. Most definitely. Culture is so overlooked.

Starting point is 00:03:54 I would agree with you. I learned early on that culture was very important, especially at the foundation of when you build a company, setting that culture right, because it really is everything when it comes down to it. I think it was Paul Senge's book, The Learning Organization, I think it was, was the fifth discipline. It was about learning organization. And boy, that book was really helpful in making, helping me teach to build culture very early on in the company.

Starting point is 00:04:22 Yeah. And if you don't actually build culture with intent, you know what happens? It is created chaotically through diverse opinions. And very soon you head into a toxic work culture. And that's a big problem today. You make a great point. I should make that point more often and stand that out because the devoid of not having, not making a choice is a choice. So you're going to end up with culture whether you like it or not. You best put your thumb on the scale and control and influence what you want. But how you act as a leader, how you signal as a leader, all those different things can make all the difference. One of the things you talk about in the book is the infinite loop of connection and how it

Starting point is 00:05:10 simplifies strategic planning into eight slides. Give us a little tease out on that if you could, please. Yeah, absolutely. So the infinite loop of connection is really about creating customer value, but there's really three things that need to happen to create you know a powerful thriving organization and you know we we as leaders talk about purpose right you know we've all seen the simon sinek talk about having a why is important to leadership but you know there's there's missing ingredients to that that mix and number one is absolutely you need to define your why why do you exist what's your core reason for being and what's the aspirational change you want to make in the world but but the other part to that chris is is values

Starting point is 00:05:58 and i see so many companies that you know place four or five values on their walls, right? They hang up posters and they post them on their website and there they sit forever. They don't use their values as guiding principles within their organization to influence behavior and create a culture of excellence. And that's really what values are all about so those values need to be aligned with your why you mean i can't just do a pr issue of what our values are and that's just some of the bs i feed i don't know the media and the companies and whoever employee wants to believe it exactly i mean it's happening everywhere right we've got a number of companies that are posting values that mean absolutely nothing to the people they serve and if if I can interrupt you too, the, I mean, the CEOs and the boards and the people that are

Starting point is 00:06:49 running the companies at the heads don't, don't, don't adhere to them. And I think people see that and they just go, you're full of shit. You're, you're, you make a great point, Chris. I mean, you've got to talk the talk and walk the walk. If you've got core values, you've got to live those core values. That's the only way you're going to create the environment within where those behaviors exist. As leaders, if there's a disconnect, if you're a company that's focused on sustainability, but you don't recycle in the office, there's a misalignment there of values, right? So how do we correct that? We've got to ask the question, who are we really if that's happening inside of our office? This misalignment happens and we just

Starting point is 00:07:31 turn a blind eye to it. We don't correct the behavior and that's a big problem. Definitely. It's the same thing you have to do with children. You have to correct the behavior. Anyway, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I talk to so many people that are completely disengaged at work. They feel alone, lost, unheard, unseen. And it's not an employee problem. It's a leadership problem. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:07:56 And a lot of people leave companies, when they leave, they leave it's over leadership. Poor leadership, toxic leadership, hostile leadership, you know, pick your poison. But there's a lot of different reasons people will leave. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Let's go to, in your words, growing up, what influenced you? What got you into being an entrepreneur? What got you into business? What were some of your influences and turns of the road that you went down that got you down this way? Yeah, so I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. My father was an entrepreneur. My grandfather was an entrepreneur. And growing up, I lived it, right? I was traveling

Starting point is 00:08:39 with my father on road trips. When he was attending meetings and going on bind trips, I was just exposed to it. And really, at first, it wasn't a path I wanted to go down. There was always this sort of idea that I would step into the family business. And my father and I talked about it. And I wanted to choose a different path. I felt at the time, being young and naive in my early 20s, that I didn't want to be handed a golden spoon. I wanted to carve my own path, create my own value. And I did what a lot of people do who are trying to figure out what to do with their life. And I put on a backpack and I flew to Cairo and spent six months traveling through the

Starting point is 00:09:26 Middle East and North Africa trying to figure out what my purpose in life was. There you go. Yeah. So you were doing your journey, trying to find your purpose. I mean, technically, technically, I mean, you're, you're, you're kind of under the pressure to be put where, where, you know, you need to, you need to join the family business, but you're like, Hey, I still need to find my why. Yeah, exactly. And my father was in the ladies wear business and I just couldn't see myself

Starting point is 00:09:52 living that. My father always said he was taking his clothes half off. Was your father running Victoria's Secret? What was going on there? Yeah, he was in ladies wear. So he had a number of dress shops, retail. Hey, man, that's the women. They love buying stuff and good clothes. I mean, money's money, man. Money's money. I mean, I remember we used to own a mall store across from Victoria's Secret Shop.

Starting point is 00:10:18 And they released like a bra every quarter or something every six months. There's some bra of the year. Sure. You know, they do. And they make so much money on that one or two days of the release of this special bra. And the line would be outside. And we were across the store from them at the mall with one of the things that we owned. And so we would see the traffic and the lines and just the people coming in there shopping.

Starting point is 00:10:46 And, you know, I'd just sit there and be jealous. I wish I had this many people in my shop. We were selling bras in Victoria's Secret. You know what I mean? They're very popular. But yeah, there you go. Money is money. In fact, I've often looked at women's, you know, different things that they do, whether it's makeup or, you know, I've even seen lots of local women have the spray tan things.

Starting point is 00:11:07 And I'm like, you know, I really should go into that business because that's a pretty consistent good business. Women, women, I mean, they control most of the money in the world, right? For the purchasing. That's a good business to be in. You know, and I'd like to say, Chris, money is money, but, you know, I think that profit shouldn't be the only goal. In fact, I think it's a short-sighted one.

Starting point is 00:11:28 That's a good lesson to what we're talking about. You were on your journey to find your why. And yeah, you need to find your why. But your why is money is money. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. You got to enjoy your work. I mean, money's not everything. You got to love what you do, 100%. Yeah. You got to enjoy your work. I mean, money's not everything.

Starting point is 00:11:46 You got to love what you do, 100%. Yeah. I've done things that I don't love when I do, and it's painful. No matter how much money you make, it can be painful. It's just hard to get motivated for something you don't love. Yeah, it's tough. And the third piece of this beyond purpose and values is connection. And there's so many businesses out there that miss out on this sort of secret to success as

Starting point is 00:12:16 it relates to thriving businesses. And what that secret is, is really about focusing on the emotions you want to evoke in the people you want to serve. So let me give you an example of this. From an emotional perspective, right, you can use that as a strategic lever in your business to align your business, not by saying how great you are, but by saying, we see you, we understand you, we exist for you. I mean, it's all about empathy. And great innovations has empathy at the center. And so does great leadership. So using empathy as an opportunity to connect with your core audience is a strategic lever you can pull. It's great for storytelling as well.

Starting point is 00:13:06 Absolutely. Are you familiar with Paul Zak's work? I'm not. It's not coming off the top of my thing. Give us an update. Yeah, Paul Zak is a neuroeconomist who did a study of the dramatic arc in storytelling. And what's interesting about this study

Starting point is 00:13:24 is that he told the story of a little boy named Ben, who has brain cancer. And the father's trying to appreciate Ben and be joyful about Ben. But, you know, he knows something that Ben doesn't, that Ben is going to die in six months. But Ben is really happy. He's beautiful and wonderful. And the father's trying to reconcile, you know, how to create this joy in himself for Ben. And as they followed the dramatic arc in the story, what they found was taking blood samples before and after the story was told, two specific chemicals were released in the brain, cortisol, which raises our level of attention, and oxytocin, which is associated with care, and empathy.

Starting point is 00:14:08 And in further research, they were able to establish with 80% accuracy who would donate money to a charity. So by changing the emotional landscape of your potential audience, you create purchase intent. Well, people buy with emotion, right? A hundred percent. That's what activates sales. I mean, we certainly don't always make the most logical, wisest decisions.

Starting point is 00:14:35 When you go to the car dealership and you buy the Corvette, even though you have six kids and you come home and your wife goes, hey man, you're supposed to buy the SUV. What the hell? And you're like, oh, my emotion get the best of me exactly buy both or something i don't know she'll make you take the corvette back i'm sure so there you go neuroscientist paul j zach american neuroscientist looks like trust factor and a few different other books that he had on the shelf there so that's that that gives you good insight. The emotion is so important to telling stories, telling, you know, culture, communicating, signaling, getting the why. You know, I imagine part of the why is not only as a leader, what your why is, but, you know, what's the why for

Starting point is 00:15:20 the people in the organization? You know, you can espouse all sorts of different, you know, hey, here's the PR wall of PR issue statements. But, you know, whether or not your employees, your people that work for you, have their whys that they need addressed. Is that correct? 100%. I mean, you know, I've been on a number of purpose-driven journeys inside of companies. And, you know, this is not sort of a short-term solution. We have a why, and all of a sudden, the culture is going to gravitate towards our aspirational goals. It's really about creating a why that resonates not only with your employees, but to the external

Starting point is 00:15:58 world, and more importantly, creating a why that is truly making a difference in people's lives. What is the aspirational change you want to make in the world? And how do those values and beliefs align with your employees? And it can't be this sort of solo effort. I'm the CEO of the company. I'm going to create a why and inspire everyone. It's very organic.

Starting point is 00:16:21 You've got to involve everyone inside the organization as it relates to why. I mean, if you want to create why, you need buy-in along the journey. So having those conversations with employees is a really important part of the process to shaping that why so it's authentically you, right, as you move out into the world. And you talk about this in the book, how business leaders can foster workplace culture where every team member is motivated by a shared sense of purpose, by a shared sense of why, as we've been discussing. What are some common mistakes businesses make when trying to attract customers and how can they avoid focusing on features over feelings? That's a great point.

Starting point is 00:17:01 And let me tell you, we just came through a pandemic, but this is another sort of pandemic, right? We've got marketers that focus on features and benefits. They try to target the rational parts of our brain to influence how we think, act, and communicate, and certainly influence what we'll do. The problem is that, you know, no one is going to make a decision with the rational part of their brain without first considering the limbic areas of the brain. And that's how emotional decisions are made, right? We get past the rational neocortex into the limbic regions of the brain to really connect with our audience on an emotional level, right? We can't sell people on facts and features, but we can sell people on, as you mentioned, the stories we have to share

Starting point is 00:17:54 and how that fits into our narrative, but more importantly, their narrative. We spend too much time inwardly focused when we should be externally focused on how we can influence customers, not who they are, but what they can become through the interaction of our products and services. There you go. I mean, that's what people want.

Starting point is 00:18:16 They want, hey, how are you solving my problems? How are you helping me achieve my goals and what I want? Like you say, you know i learned that sales there's so many sales people that will read the the dead features benefit you know sort of thing and while there's some importance in that people look for you know they're going to make an emotional choice as well and and trying to get them it used to when i was in the car business it was kind of interesting because i used to wonder what made people like people would come to me on the lot when i was when i was a kid i did a year

Starting point is 00:18:50 stint in the car business and they would come to me and they'd be like hey you know we're gonna look at ford chevy and we were chevy dealership we're gonna look at ford chevy and dodge and you know yada yada whatever the cars were and they're like we know we're today we're going cruising through all the dealerships and it would it would it would strike me that i would find them a car i'd be likable sales when i i think that's what they tell me so whatever and sometimes i would convince people to you know the very start of their journey that day to shop all the cars i somehow would circumvent that by selling them a car that they fell in love with and i would sometimes feel like it was very young at the time so i i would feel a little bit of guilty i'm like you know did i

Starting point is 00:19:38 really do them the best sort of thing should i let them go shop around town first i mean it seems kind of weird that you know here they were they had this intent of shopping all over but you know somehow i'm got them to fall in love with the car that they had and and i'm sure affordability and and stuff was a factor there you know because some people come on the lot and they're you know i want i want this and you know they want all the features and stuff and they're, you know, I want this. And, you know, they want all the features and stuff. And you're like, you can't afford that. Exactly. How much can you spend a month?

Starting point is 00:20:10 So sometimes it's a little bit of that as a motivation. But they usually, you know, they buy what they love. But it used to occur to me that I'm like, I wonder if I really do people good. Because, you know, instead of them doing their journey of sales, I cram them in a car, but they seem really happy about it. And I think what you just described that we've been talking about kind of explains that feature where people, if they fall in love with it, they fall in love with it. It's kind of like, I don't know, you're like,

Starting point is 00:20:37 hey, I'm going to go date a bunch of people and figure out the right person for me. And the first person you meet, you just fall in love with. And I don't know, maybe 10 years in divorce court you're sitting there going maybe i should have shopped around more buying with emotion didn't work very well for me yeah you know and and and people don't buy the best car or the best relationship or the best't buy the best car. Or the best relationship. Or the best, they buy the best car for them or the best relationship for them. You know, it's not about the best car, right?

Starting point is 00:21:13 It's about the best car for them. And where that fits into their worldview. And, you know, there are collections of experiences, thoughts, actions throughout life, all shape and mold their worldview. And they identify with that car they just purchased with where they feel they belong. There you go. There you go.

Starting point is 00:21:33 And some people, you know, they deserve bad relationships. No, I'm just kidding. Wow. I love all my exes. We've all had a bad relationship. Yeah, we've all made bad choices of emotion. I mean, haven't we? We've all made those bad emotional purchases.

Starting point is 00:21:47 We've done that. I mean, that's what Amazon is for, right? The card in Amazon? That's right. Yeah. It's up for emotional bad purchases. As long as we're willing to recognize, Chris, and here's the problem, right? If we're spending on Amazon on things we don't need because we're making emotional buying decisions then it's not someone else's fault yeah it's we've got to take some self-responsibility

Starting point is 00:22:09 and accountability for making those decisions i'm still working on seeing that on first dates they're like no my last 10 boyfriends were narcissists and you're like hmm the common one is you here that's kind of weird how it works. So one other thing you talk about in your book, and this is the really important part, one of the important parts, I should say, how can companies measure and communicate? So we need to measure this so we know it's working. The positive impact they're making on their employees, customers, and communities by knowing their values and espousing and aligning themselves with their own PR? 100%. I mean, measurement is crucial. It's about reward and recognition. And that's really an

Starting point is 00:22:52 important part of building a great workplace culture, right? People want to win. Every single individual and team inside of an organization, they want to win. So they need, you know, you need to keep score. Where are we? Whether it's where are we in the quarter? Where are we against our goals? Where are we, you know, with this project? It's about creating that feedback loop and ensuring that everyone understands the score. And you need to know if you're winning or losing. And when you're losing, you've got to talk about why you're losing and try to gain some insights and learning from that so you can grow and adapt along the way. It's okay to fail. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:23:30 I failed a thousand times in my career. I've made a million poor decisions. failures in our life and really look at what happened and how can we learn and adapt, not just from a leadership perspective, but from an individual and team perspective. Yeah, because if you don't learn from your mistakes, you're just going to keep making the same ones. Or if you're trying to measure something and you're not making progress, you've got to get to the heart of why you're not making progress, right? And there's really two sides of this. There's the internal metrics as it relates to KPIs, but there's also what I consider to be the social impact piece,

Starting point is 00:24:12 which I believe businesses that are doing good in the world and have a true aspirational purpose of making a meaningful difference in people's lives need to measure social impact. If you're volunteering in your community, how many hours are you volunteering? You can't, as you know, measure and manage, sorry, you can't manage what you don't measure, right? So you've got to have a clear understanding of the impact you're making and you've got to share that with the world. There you go. I mean, it's so important to get that out there. So let's talk about what you do

Starting point is 00:24:46 on your website. You do several different services and offerings that you have. Let's talk about how people can onboard with you, find out more about you and utilize the services that we can find on. I think it's simplestrategicplans.com. Is that correct? That's correct. There you go. Yeah. I'm consulting on a variety of projects. My most common projects are around creating a simple strategy and planning framework. And I say strategy and planning, Chris, because far too many people get in the trap of what I call strategic planning. They don't decouple strategy from planning.

Starting point is 00:25:20 And when people get into strategic planning, they talk about outcomes. They don't talk about strategy, right? So we're going to generate more leads. We're going to create a new office in the EU. We're going to expand our distribution. Those are outcomes, not strategy. I work with clients to really focus on the strategy piece and the planning piece of their plans and condense it down into eight slides.

Starting point is 00:25:46 The reason for that is because you want a simple plan that people can understand and follow and create the kind of focus and direction in your business that you can measure along the way. And as a small business owner, we've both been there, right? We're wearing multiple hats. There's chaos. And a lot of the time, we lack focus and clarity. And this really sets that focus and clarity in motion. There you go. So important to... What's the old adage? If you don't know where you're going, you're not going to get there. If you don't plan, you plan. If you fail the plan, you plan to fail. I think that's the axiom I'm searching for.

Starting point is 00:26:28 That's right. So there you go. That makes all the difference. So people can go on your website. You've got services of workshops that you run, one-on-one coaching, speaking in tongues engagements. No, I'm just kidding. It's just speaking engagements. I'm just being funny there.

Starting point is 00:26:44 Although, I don't know. That could be an added service, speaking in tongues. That's usually what I do. I don't know if you'd get any audience applause, but it would be a really interesting talk. They mostly just look at you askew with their askew and their security. But usually that's on vodka night. Tongues, engagements. I don't know what that means.

Starting point is 00:27:04 Exactly. We don't do vodka anymore. tons of engagements. I don't know what that means. Exactly. We don't do vodka anymore. No more vodka. 55, my body's, we're not doing this with you anymore. You're going to make it really painful. How can people onboard with you and reach out? Do they book a call? How does it work?

Starting point is 00:27:17 Yeah, so they can book a call. And of course, they can certainly reach out using my contact form and have a discovery call in terms of, you know, their pain points and how I can help. You know, it's really about helping people accelerate growth. But, you know, I want to emphasize the point that it's accelerating growth in the right ways. You know, I had a recent call with someone who said, you know, I just I just want to make more money. And I said, well, I, you know, unless you're willing to make a change in yourself, I can't help you because it's not just about making money. It's about creating cultures of excellence

Starting point is 00:27:54 because it's the only way you're going to accelerate growth is if you've got culture right. Yeah. The core value of being an entrepreneur is solving other people's problems. And sometimes it's a widget where you solve your own problem. You know, I think there was a story of a gal who didn't like paperclips because it wasn't working and she decided to put ridges on the paperclips, you know, little cut ridges. Yeah. So that it would hold better. You know, I've seen some people, you know, paint colors on things. I remember there was a gal who was, she was single and she was trying to do home repairs as a lot of single women are nowadays. And she, you know, the grips of the power tools and stuff that you would buy at Home

Starting point is 00:28:41 Depot were really made for men's hands, which are much bigger than women's. Right. And then they just weren't very, you know, they just weren't very woman-centric oriented in their colors. And, you know, color is important to women, how they feel about stuff. And so she came out with her own line of female-centric power tools to be sold at places like Home Depot and Lowe's and stuff. And the handles handles of course were

Starting point is 00:29:05 made more for women's hands probably a little bit lighter since they have less upper arm strength and but they were pink too so they were right they were color so let me tell you how those those great inventions happen chris empathy ah there you go. Empathy. So, you know, helping people solve their problems, and sometimes it's solving your own and then realizing, hey, there's probably a lot of other people like this, you know. What was the thing with, you know, KFC? You know, he made some great chicken. It tasted amazing.

Starting point is 00:29:39 Hey, people probably all around the world want this, and now people all around the world are eating very greasy, high-cholesterol chicken. Good luck are eating very greasy, high cholesterol chicken. Good luck with that. It's actually good chicken. It is good chicken. It's a little greasy, but it's good chicken. So, I mean, what chicken is bad chicken?

Starting point is 00:29:55 I don't know. Maybe there's a joke there somewhere. There is. I'm not going to go there. I tried segueing. You can't find it. I can't find the segue on ramp or off ramp. I'm just trying to get back to zero here. So what other things may we have we missed that you do as your services for coaching and speaking and stuff or maybe in the book that you want to tease out?

Starting point is 00:30:18 Yeah, absolutely. A key part of this, Chris, is really about changing the leadership model. Because from my perspective, the problem is we've got people that are being promoted into new positions in manager roles because of technical competence, right? They're very good at their jobs. They know what to do. They've been in the position. So they get promoted into a manager role. The big problem with this is those people with technical competence don't know how to lead because they don't have the skill set right yeah they know how to they know how to manage direct with authority rank and control that's that that's what what happens and and creates cultures of ugliness, but we've got to start teaching leadership as a skill set

Starting point is 00:31:09 so that these people understand that their roles are to provide service and support, to empower others along their journey to achieve success. We've got the model wrong. And so we've got to really start focusing on teaching leadership skills inside of organizations to create the kind of growth and cultures we want to see there you go it makes all the difference in the world culture is everything because and i like the point that you bring up the the lack of creating culture this doesn't mean you're gonna you know i don't know how to be devoid of it. It's going to create culture. So if you're not controlling it, you know, it's going to get out of hand, probably toxic,

Starting point is 00:31:54 you know, all sorts of other things that are going on. So you have to be intentional with it. And you have to, I mean, it's really important to lay at the foreground of the creation of your company, if can that or to you know make a new announcement and go hey we're we're changing course in this or if you're an incoming ceo maybe taking over for a prior ceo or whatever the board's picked you or you're coming in to bail out a company that's the other thing i found you know we used to do a lot of bailouts of companies and you would find that you when you would come in culture was an important thing and a lot of the employees had lost had lost i lost trust of leadership you know they found they weren't walking their talk and talking their walk and so they weren't trusting them and so sometimes

Starting point is 00:32:35 you have to come in and do a major reset as a new leader and go hey a new leadership is here and hopefully you know we're the right we have the right mix and hopefully we can earn your trust. And there you go. But you've got to focus on other people nowadays. It's not, you know, as an entrepreneur, you're solving people's problems. As customer service, you're solving people's problems. And, you know, I think that's a real lack that we have today in the customer service world. Like some of the.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Yeah, it's a huge problem. Some of the big issues that I've found in the customer service void, it's out there now in the marketplace, is companies just talking about what they care about. You know, oh, you know, we hold, I hold several big singles events and we go to different restaurants and places,

Starting point is 00:33:26 bars and stuff, and we'll bring 100 people and we've actually had some people be like this is too much we can't we don't want this this is too much work you're creating for us here wow and we're like what's the difference between bringing 100 people that are very specific to our group to just 100 people showing up at your restaurant today well that's very different because they come at different times they're spread out and and whatever dealing with you guys is is a lot of work because you guys are you guys come all at once and you're you're just and you're drinking a lot and you're like we're paying you all this money and you know we had one we had one bar that didn't want us to come anymore after five visits because we brought hundreds of people there and they were usually empty too and so that you know

Starting point is 00:34:12 the employees are just like we don't have to do this work and probably some bad values and we always found that we always found our discussions with some of these companies there's been just two of them but we always found that the problem is is the what's the old the fish rot from the head so it's usually the owners that are are being annoyed they're just like you create too much work and chaos for a company and you're like isn't that the point i mean if you're sitting with empty if you're sitting with an empty restaurant or an empty place you you've got you've got empty utilization that you you know is you're you're paying for the building and everything and the employees to be standing around i mean you might as well utilize it and make some

Starting point is 00:34:56 money but people just don't get the math i guess and and and how about gratitude be grateful i mean yeah if you if somebody anybody calls if you, if somebody, anybody calls me up. If you're bringing a hundred people into my business to, you know, have drinks and food, there's going to be a large expression of gratitude. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's pretty, it's pretty funny. Some of the customer service that I have out there, you know, it seems like a lot of customer

Starting point is 00:35:20 service, you know, like you call these companies, like maybe the cable company we can pick on, you know, and they're like, like hey we really appreciate your business by the way enjoy this hour and a half wait yeah if you're lucky but we really appreciate you we're going to tell you that 50 000 times over this next hour and a half i mean i mean I'm, I imagine if you actually took genuine care with every customer interaction, you know, and, and, and that's what it's really all about, you know, from, as you said, and, and, and you, you painted the perfect illustration. Now you're having an adverse effect from an emotional perspective. You're frustrated, perhaps angry. You know, your disassociation with the brand,

Starting point is 00:36:09 you're not seen, heard, or valued. And so this creates a really negative interaction with a customer. And that's the opposite of what you're trying to avoid. So from an internal and external perspective, you know, what are two or three feelings you want to evoke in your company every day? You know, is it joy? Is it appreciation? Whatever it may be, if you're intentional about creating those feelings, both internally and

Starting point is 00:36:39 externally, you have a much greater chance of making a deep impact on those you serve. And we don't want to be your, you know, your story reminds me of a story I share in my book where, you know, I went to a pet groomer at Christmas. I had the appointment book for weeks and, you know, he suffered from anxiety. He was really nervous about the visit. And, you know, PetSmart told me, we're not taking him. It's at our discretion. And I said, what do me, we're not taking him. It's at our

Starting point is 00:37:05 discretion. And I said, what do you mean you're not taking him? I've had this appointment booked for weeks. I was frustrated and angry. And I left that store thinking, you know what? I'm never going to go there again. And I never have. And luckily, on that same day, after three or four phone calls, I found, you know, a pet groomer who said, I'm fully booked till January, but I understand your situation. I'll fit you in and we're going to make your holiday great. And it was an amazing experience. She brought empathy to the call, took in our dog, groomed him. And I left her shop with a hand-painted Christmas ornament for our tree. So that's an example of a great emotional experience and we go to her over and over

Starting point is 00:37:53 again. So it's about creating that connection with your customers. You know, I've talked about that on the show before where, you know, one of our big things was in the mortgage business and we always try to treat customers well and if i had to eat i if i had to turn and burn what our costs were what we were making on something to make a customer happy because we made them unhappy by some sort of error i would and sometimes those would cost me five thousand dollars including the salesman right who usually was the one who fucked it up because we used to say start your call with the client ask them what they're trying to accomplish

Starting point is 00:38:30 and shut up and listen and pay attention to what they want to try and accomplish so you can serve them and they wouldn't you know they wouldn't pay attention you know the client would be like i want a 30-year mortgage and they'd do 15 or something and right get to close and they'd be pissed and rightly but you know fixing those and right get to close and they'd be pissed and rightly but you know fixing those problems and very quickly you know they would call me to complain and i'd be like okay i understand the problem we need to fix this we're going to fix this and i'm like what you're not going to argue with me i'm like no we've we screwed up we'll make it right you know how much is it going to cost to make it right and make you happy and what's

Starting point is 00:39:04 funny is, is I never thought those people would ever come back to us, but those are the people who always come back. They always come back because you created loyalty. You solved their problem

Starting point is 00:39:13 and showed them you cared and people want to be cared for. And seeing the big picture too, that's the other thing a lot of these companies I see that have really poor customer service, they don't see the big picture because those are the because creating those experience for customers, those are the customers that are going to refer your business. They're going to give you great reviews.

Starting point is 00:39:33 They're going to keep coming back with loyalty. The exponential income that you make from that. Like I say, when we piss off customers, they would come back every year usually on you know whenever refinances would allow them to with equity but they would come back almost every year with either other business they were doing or referral business or themselves they're like hey remember remember last year and i'm like yeah you called me like 50 000 names in the book and told me what a horrible company and person we were because our employee screwed something up. But they're like, you made it good.

Starting point is 00:40:09 Sometimes they would have a completely different experience of memory. I would be sitting there going, I remember how you chewed me out and I'm not even sure I want your business again because you were pretty hostile. And they're just going, I loved doing business with you last time. And you're like, it's not the experience I remember. But that's what they were left with when we reconciled the problem and took care of it and had that empathy. As we go out, give people a pitch out on how they can onboard with you, reach out to you for your services, order the book, and your dot coms.

Starting point is 00:40:40 Yeah. The book is Purposeful Performance. It's available at every major retailer, and you can reach me through my website, through the contact form, book a call, and love to talk about your business and how we can help it grow. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show, Jonathan.

Starting point is 00:40:55 It's been a great discussion. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it, Chris. Thank you very much. There you go. And thanks to Ronis for tuning in. Order up the book where refined books are sold, Purposeful Performance, the secret mix of connecting, leading, and succeeding. Out August 21st, 2024 by Jonathan Stanley.

Starting point is 00:41:13 Go to goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Chris Voss, and all those crazy places on the internet. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.

The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Purposeful Performance: The Secret Mix of Connecting, Leading, and Succeeding by Jonathan Stanley

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