The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Reinvent: Navigating Business Transformation in a Hyperdigital Era by Faisal Hoque

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Reinvent: Navigating Business Transformation in a Hyperdigital Era by Faisal Hoque https://amzn.to/3NTeIrr The Journey to Organizational Transformation Given the rate of change that we have experienced and will continue to see in the world, it's a challenge trying to stay on top of everything. Organizations must consider revising and possibly scrapping decades-old habits, processes, and their very ways of thinking and operating. In so doing, organizations can literally reinvent themselves. Transformation requires much more than simply obtaining the latest technology, plugging it in, and sitting back to watch reinvention take place. From top to bottom, organizations will be compelled to change entire mindsets, attitudes, and assumptions about how they operate, how they can grow, and even the very reason for their existence. This book introduces readers to ideas, concepts, and a comprehensive framework (LIFTS) that they can use to better position themselves and their organizations to reap the greatest number of benefits that business and digital transformation can afford. It's a journey rich with promise that explains complex concepts in an understandable common language. The book is divided into three distinct sections. The First section, "Why? The Case for Business Transformation in a Hyper-Digital Era," makes the argument for organizational reinvention—from the changing nature of consumers to shifting workforce priorities to the necessity for greater organizational security. The second section, "Transformation via Digitalization—Necessary Steps," examines actions necessary to prepare for transformation, including overcoming significant obstacles, recognizing the essential value of leadership, and forecasting what your organization is likely to become in the future. The final section, "What to Do: Navigating with LIFTS," offers a comprehensive discussion of a five-step process geared to guiding your company through its transformation. Using the acronym LIFTS — learn, investigate, formulate, take off, and study—you'll learn what goes into a successful transformative effort, including elements that, if overlooked, can sink otherwise solid planning. REINVENT is the result of the author's personal and professional journey — one that is made possible by three decades of work with colleagues, customers, partners, academics, and industry experts from around the globe. About the author #1 WALL STREET JOURNAL and USA TODAY BESTSELLING AUTHOR RECIPIENT OF AXIOM GOLD MEDAL, FOREWORD, PENCRAFT, BIBA, BOOK EXCELLENCE, AMERICAN BOOK FEST, GLOBEE, AND OTHER AWARDS Faisal Hoque is an accomplished entrepreneur, noted thought leader, technology innovator, advisor to CEOs, BODs, and the US federal government, with more than 25 years of cross-industry success. He has authored, co-authored 10 award-winning books (his awards include Axiom Gold Medal, Foreword, PenCraft, BIBA, Book Excellence, Globee, American Book Fest, and others) on humanity, business, and technology, including the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller "REINVENT – Navigating Business Transformation in a Hyper-Digital Era" published in association with IMD (Institute for Management Development) (Fast Company Press, 2023), the #1 Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller "LIFT – Fostering the Leader in You Amid Revolutionary Global Change" (Fast Company Press, 2022), and the #2 Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller "Everything Connects – Cultivating Mindfulness, Creativity, and Innovation for Long-Term Value" (2nd Edition, Fast Company Press, 2022). His ground-breaking first book "e-Enterprise" was released by Cambridge University Press in 2000. He is the founder of SHADOKA, NextChapter, and other companies. They focus on enabling sustainable and transformational changes. His broad areas of expertise include innovation, leadership, management, sustainable growth, transformation, strategy, governance, M&A, frameworks,

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to chrisvossshow.com. We certainly appreciate you guys coming in and being a part of the podcast because without you guys, we'd just be talking to a mic and probably getting our meds in our little rubber room that's behind the green screen here. So there you go. We have an amazing author who's joining us on the show, a multi-book author.

But before we get to him, we have to do the begging, pleading, get on our knees, grovel a little bit, and say, can you please, for the love of God, refer the family, friends, and relatives to goodreads.com, 4chatschristmas, linkedin.com, 4chatschristmas, youtube.com, 4chatschristmas, chrisfast1 on the tickety-tockety. And I don't know, there's something else I missed. The LinkedIn newsletter, the big 130,000 LinkedIn group too. That's as well. You'll probably be seeing this in the LinkedIn newsletters. There you go, folks. As always, we have the most smartest, brightest people that come to you in the world. None of them are me. I'm just the idiot on the show with the mic. I mean, clearly we know that after 15 years. But for 15 years, we've been

bringing you three to four shows a day, 15 to 20 shows a week of most amazing, brilliant minds. And again, I have to disclose this by attorney privilege. None of those people are me. That's why we have guests on the show, people. So there's smart people here. The CEOs, the billionaires, the White House presidential advisors, governors, Congress members, U.S. ambassadors, astronauts, TV and Pulitzer Prize winners. Damn it, people. What I'm telling you, there's smart people on this show or else. I don't know what that means.

Today, we are joined by an amazing author. Faisal Haq is joining us on the show. His latest book is called Reinvent, Navigating Business Transformation in a Hyper-Digital Era. It came out July 4th, 2023. We'll be talking about his books and all the great stuff that goes into his books. He's written so many, I can't even count them all, but we'll do that. Welcome to the show. How are you, sir? Thank you for having me. I'm great.

Thank you. Thank you. There you go. Thanks for coming. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Sure. It's FaisalHot.com. My name and.com.

There you go. And you're an accomplished entrepreneur, thought leader on leadership, technology innovator, advisor to CEOs, BODs, BODs. I know what BODs are. I find them on Tinder. We'll have to find out what that means. And the U.S. government, an author of more than 25 years across industry success.

What are BODs? And give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside your new book, Reinvent. Look, Reinvent is a result of my 25 years of doing work with large corporations and government as well. And I do a lot of work with our federal government. And it's about how do the corporations and the large organization tune their organization to transform to the next level by utilizing the right technology and leveraging the technology that actually creates long lasting impact for the

organization with innovation and with high performance teams. So that's what the book is about. And it's not about mindset and leadership mindset, obviously, which plays a big role in any kind of transformational journey. Definitely. You got to have leadership there. Someone's got to lead that damn ship or else it kind of goes on the rocks. So do you talk about AI in the book and digitization, I think? Is that a factor? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you can't talk about technology today without talking about AI.

Every other word today is AI, right? I'm an AI podcast. You have no idea I'm not sitting here for real. You're not real. It's a stalled page. I'm just a podcast. You have no idea I'm not sitting here for real. You're not real. It's a stall page. I'm just a hologram. Right. No, I mean, look, artificial intelligence,

we have seen a huge movement in the last 24 months. There are a lot of debate about, is it good? Is it bad? Is it going to destroy us? Is it going to transform our life altogether? None of us will ever have to work. I mean, it's all kind of conversation about AI. But, you know, the reality is that it's somewhere in between, right? I mean, it's just like anything else.

How we use it is going to impact how we progress. And if we don't utilize it properly, then it will create a lot of harm. We do talk about AI a great deal and both the benefit and also the, the, how to govern it. So it doesn't go out of hand. There you go. Uh, you know, we just had, we just like two hours ago, I think four hours ago, we got off the line with my good friend, Gary Shapiro, who runs CTA and the CS show. You're probably familiar with the big CS show every year in Vegas. Yeah. and one thing he was talking about he goes every company needs to think of themselves as a technology company no

matter what it is even if it seems like you're not a technology company you kind of have to think that way do you agree with that 100 look i i wrote a wall street journal article 20 some years ago i you know and my argument was that you know this is just right before the dot-com bubble. And I was arguing that if the companies and the leaders don't learn how to use technology, not only they're going to be obsolete, but their organizations are going to become irrelevant. And if you look at last 20 years, we've seen a lot of companies come and go. And we've seen a lot of the traditional companies are no longer in business, right? If you follow that trend, you can only imagine what will happen with the next generation technology that are coming. And that's going to change

the way we work, the way we play, the way we communicate, etc, etc. I mean, you started this show 15 years ago. Imagine 20 years ago, we couldn't have done this, you know, because the bandwidth wasn't there, right? And it's improved vastly since then, right? So every business model has completely changed because of technology. And that will continue to be the case. And it's not just for the business part of it. I mean, you can look at healthcare, you can look at, you know, the entertainment. Every facet of our life has completely changed because of technology. So obviously some good and obviously some bad.

But overall, I mean, we can't live without technology. Definitely. I mean, I've seen technology and things that I never thought could be adopted or adapted to technology. I flunked second grade. The, like, farming, you know, you see like these, these, these farming tractors they have now. Yeah.

These things are crazy. Like robot AI machines. They haven't, I saw someone profiling, I think with the wall street journal, a new machine, farming machine that actually goes around and the AI will sense which are the weeds and which is the growing root. And it will laser the weed to kill it, and it knows the difference.

And it just does that driving down the road, and you're just like, that's pretty ingenious. So there you go. Absolutely. I mean, look, if you look at healthcare, right, the opportunity with technology in healthcare is enormous because the precision, surgery precision, the diagnostic of cancer,

where you actually look at the DNA structure of human body and decide which cells are going array because of cancer growth. All of those are going to be far more accurate because of the technology than what of the software and the technology behind it is far more accurate than what human beings can do on a real-time basis, right? So that's the opportunity, right? But you can also look at what happened,

what could happen if all of these things become rogue, right? Because a lot of these, we talk about AI. AI is mimicking the human behavior and is learning from the human history, right? So if you consider it from that point of view, all the bad things we do as humans is also going to be reflected with the technology, and it's going to be proportionally incremental. There you go i was listening to and andreessen mark andreessen argue with sam uh jesus my one of my favorite podcasts but he was he was arguing with them people have heard me reference this on the show before but he was talking at mark andreessen kind of has a pollyanna sort of blue sky thing to it and god bless him

he's got money in it but you know he was like you know. But he was like, it sucked in the greatest things of humanity. And Sam Harris is saying to him, yeah, but it's also sucked in the worst of us. I'm sure it's pulled in Hitler and atrocities that we've done across the world and horrors. And we always have been good people. I don't think we're still good people yet working on it. I don't know. It might be human nature is the realm of this root but you know and so and so it has all those one thing that's interesting to me that i'll run by you that came out of my thought

thinking on this is is and i think sam harris references he goes you know as human beings our paradigm is to breed populate the species breed, breed, and, and, you know, keep the humanity alive. That's kind of our biological paradigm. You know, we try, we try and think that, oh, we do all this intelligent stuff and, you know, cause we're high minded, but really, you know, we're just trying to press chicks and breed and raise the kids so that they survive and, and propagate the species. That's the that's the biological biological thing but even though this this these ar machines are sucking in the best of us a lot of what we have designed has been limited by that thinking you know it's been limited by the whole well you know

propagate the species thinking this thing is going to think in a way and it's going to be its own species is the is the theorem it's going to be its own species is the is the theorem it's going to be its own species that thinks about things that we don't think about because it's not going to have limits or any limits for that matter of course i mean look i mean i'm working on a working on my next book which which really around this topic of what's humanity right and and and how do we think about humanity in general and what's's the limitation of the human thinking? And how does the new entity like AI takes that for good and for bad, right?

And you can almost look at what has happened because of the social media. I mean, if you look at social media, it's a reflection of the collective soul of humanity, right? So there's lots of good stuff in there, right? But there's also all kind of garbage and all kind of things that has happened because of social media. I mean, Internet was the connector. Social media was like kind of the accelerator of the mirror of humanity, AI is going to be the good, bad, ugly,

and the worst of humanity all wrapped in one, right? So that's where the danger comes in because AI is like a children. It's like a child. What is the source of that knowledge? The source of that knowledge is the collective knowledge of humanity, right? And then it will create deduction. So the people who argues for it says, well, it's going to take all the good,

and it's going to make it even better. That's one set of argument, but you can also argue that it will take all the bad, and it will make it even worse. And not to mention that there will always be some raw character that will try to benefit from doing bad things. Like it's the human history, right? I mean, that's what humanity does. So that's where it gets tricky, right? I mean, it's just like we don't know what will be the ultimate, you know, ultimate thoughts, ultimate result.

And, you know, a lot of time, you know, if you look at all the, you know, the sci-fi movies, I mean, we see that some robot comes in, knocks on your door and grabs you and does this. That's actually a primitive perspective. The more futuristic perspective is that the machines are going to manipulate your mind and it will make you as the do, which you already see, because if you look at social media, we get influenced by whatever the case may be, and you're going to become a toy or a weapon. And that's where it gets really interesting if you start thinking about it. And I think the more we lose our critical thinking ability, the worse we will become as humanity. Jesus. And we're kind of there now when you see our politics

and what's going on. Absolutely. Separation. You know, I mean, the same thing you're talking about AI doing to us, you know, Mark Zuckerberg already did with Facebook in 2016, you know, where basically they hijacked the algorithms and got some back-end weaponry. And basically, you basically, even now,

the algorithm is designed for emotion. It's designed to fire you up. It's not designed to send you something like, hey, would you like to read the works of Einstein? It's like, hey, this guy is, I don't know, lighting children on fire over here. What do you think about that? And you're like, what?

Children on fire! And whatever the hell it is. And even politicians do the same thing. I think they probably always have over time. But, yeah, it's designed to tap into your emotion. But that will be interesting. I haven't thought about that thing where, you know, geez, if it became Mark Zuckerberg 10.0,

because I'm sure it won't be 2.0, it'll be 10.0, it could be really crazy. One thing I've been thinking about lately that I'm starting to run people by is the amount of disinformation that can be created by with using ai and how that can be manipulated for politics we've had people on the show that talked about this upcoming politics season we're probably going to see a lot of deep fakes a lot of different manipulation and you know you may see like whole videos we see that now we see videos that are fake you know and you know you may see like whole videos we see that now we see videos

that are fake you know and you know maybe we'll see a presidential candidate who's i don't know doing something heinous and in the video will look real and you know a lie gets around the world faster than whatever and maybe it'll make a difference in a campaign maybe it won't you just you just don't know but the it almost seems like uh for the amount of disinformation ai can generate at a just incredibly massive scale we almost need to start designing some ai systems that are somehow going to get to the truth i mean there there has to be an objective truth i would think you're you're probably more of a scientist and a smarter guy than i am but i think from to to keep a society balanced there has to be some sort of segment of what we can all agree on

as objective truth. Look, I mean, it's a combination of a lot of different things that you can put the genie in the bottle, right? I mean, it's obviously technology because you can say, look, let's create some boundaries where it can tell you whether it's a digital entity versus a real entity. That's from a technology point of view, right? But if you look at it from an ethics and law and governance point of view, you can also

start putting together a policy where you're not allowed to use a digital persona. You know, I mean, like, how does, you know, the idea the idea of that well I want to create a persona and that's going to be my face to the world that's a pretty dangerous approach because you know that's where the deep fake starts you know become mainstream right so it's a combination of ethics law governance and technology and and there are a lot of people are a lot of smart people around the globe is working on it, including the various governments. I'm sure you've seen those things coming out of Europe. There are stuff going on in the U.S. Department of Defense

where there's an organization called NIST that tried to put together some governance models so that the organization doesn't go rogue and start creating engines that are harmful. But it's a collective responsibility. And I hope and pray that we have learned from our at least last 10 years of human patterns and behavior and being manipulated by algorithm and divisiveness that we have managed to create worldwide, right?

I mean, just like your point, I mean, hey, look at this video, somebody's burning the children and then we all pile on to it because it tapped into, you know, the deep emotion we have about certain things and we completely lose perspective. We lose the ability to think critically about anything, and we take it for gospel and we go at it, right? So, these things, you know, it's a collective, it's really a collective responsibility. And we have to, each one of us have to conduct ourselves in a way, because, you know, we're now teaching a child, which is going to be thousand times more smarter than any of us were ever

before right because that it has the computational power right so that's that's really the challenge and and i think we're all gonna have to wake up you know it's like you know it's like you've seen in movies or you know we say it's not real it's not real everything you see you have to say is it real is it real is it real right yeah or we're see, you have to say, is it real? Is it real? Is it real? Right. Yeah. Or we're almost there. Yeah.

I mean, really, it's, it's the amount of disinformation they can put out and already puts out. And we already put out ourselves manually. I mean, there's evil people doing stuff. You know, you have governments that are activating AI or trying to, to win the AI war. And I'm sure they're going to use it for technically techno war. You know, there are people that don't like us because, you know, we have freedom and they don't. And they think autocracy is really cool because it treats them well. And we're just that ugly example to the world that, you know, the human spirit and the mind and freedom are important.

But, you know, even then we may have our days but you're right that everyone needs to have that collective sort of responsibility i remember the jokes when well it wasn't a joke when the internet started everyone's like hey if everyone gets more information and data and they can learn more on the internet everyone will be smarter a rising tide will lift all boats turns out that wasn't the truth. We just let the village idiots were able to find each other and then gang up over the internet. You're right on. I mean, look, you talk about this.

I mean, just think about so many advancements that's happened. I mean, there's no denial of the good and the advancement that has happened because of the technology and the connectivity that has happened because of the technology and the connectivity and all the things that we have the things we can learn you know it's it's it's really mind-boggling right i mean it used to take like like years to do research now it takes days to do research right so because you have all this information but at at the same time, look, I mean, here's that you talk about politics, just the historical perspective. Misinformation about candidates against each other,

it's nothing new. I mean, Abraham Lincoln did that, you know, Thomas Jefferson did that with newsletters, right? So, but the difference was that, you know, during those time, it was a kind of like a leaflet, and it would go around like 100 people or 200 people. Now, it just goes instantly globally. And in form, opinion, at a space that's not controllable, right? So that's why you can organize riots.

You can organize protests in a matter of hours, not a matter of days or hours. So that's where the danger comes in. And to your point, you know, there are lots of bad people out there that doesn't like the way of our life. I mean, you know, one of the reasons I bounced from private sector to public sector, it's my way of giving to this country that has given me so much. And I do a lot of work with DoD. And it's a major issue. You know, the information war is the biggest war we have on our end. Definitely. You know, speaking of DoD,

one of the things I think that Sam Harris identified is, you know, we built the bomb and the bomb could kill us. We could kill ourselves. But we still had to be the ones that pushed the button. Somebody manually had to go push a button. But AI, if you connect it to Department of Defense's, you know, weaponry and stuff, NORAD, and you connected all those things, whether you do it through AI chips, it can eventually search and seek out,

or whether you connect it directly to the weapon system. And you can think, well, we're high-minded for that well what if russia does it we've seen how incompetent their military is what if they connect their ai to their button china etc etc i mean indian pakistan jesus do we want that thing going down um i'm surprised that hasn't even gone off yet at this point but maybe it's somewhat of a turn. But yeah, you think of what can happen if AI gets access to certain things. And so, I mean, there you go. Let's fall back in your book because this has been a great technology discussion and a reason for your book on why there's hyper digital error and some of the things we need to think about. You talk in your book about three distinct sections.

The first section is why, the case for business transformation in the hyper-digital era. Discussing some of the things that we've done so far as a CEO of a company, as a business, as a leader. Why do we need to start thinking about transforming to adapt for a higher hyper-digital era? Look, I mean, all the things we just talked about, I mean, if you dissect it from a business point of view, I mean, you know, the way we communicate, the way we sell, the way we market, the way we do supply chain management, the way we interact with the global resource school, right?

They're all now on, on digital infrastructure. So if you, if you so if you if you if you if your business as a business leader you're not modeling your business to take advantage of that you'll be instantly obsolete right so that's where that comes from that's the business case for being digitally savvy and and and thinking about your business where digital is your business. I mean, even if you look at a beer company, right? Oh, look, the beer company, yeah, they make beer and then the beer goes to a consumer.

But the way they market, the way you connect, the way you have using social media with influencers, the way you're utilizing supply chain to make sure the raw materials are coming at the right time to create the right flavor and create the right flavor at the right time of the year because of the seasonal changes. All of those are enabled by some sort of a digital technology. And so those are very simple, basic example. And you can expand upon that in a multitude of ways.

But here's where it gets really tricky, and it kind of relates to the conversation we just have had. Because we collectively as a society have to think about businesses that are responsible for global society as a whole, right? So the things we push out there, is it going to really have a long lasting positive impact? Or is it are we going to just make some short term money? And that's why we are in business. And by the way, that doesn't work anyway, because people see through that, right? I mean, mean i mean when you manipulate people to buy stuff that are not value-added or harmful people you know they they get they push away from the brand that you're pushing out there right so this is where that mindset of long-term thinking and impact on society as a general comes at play along with how does digital technology allows us to create a sustainable future so we human society can thrive in the long term.

So that's really what I tried to portray in the first section of the book we talk about okay so you you got that mindset you want to do good and you do by doing good you want to do well for yourself for your business or organization then how do you go about doing it how do you think about technology how do you plan for it how do you how do you you know mobilize your organization and create that innovation culture whereby people can input their diverse thought process, diversity in the context of thoughts and skill set, not just diversity in the context of, you know, the ethnicity or gender. It's really the diversity of thought process and skill set. How do you apply that to create that kind of model? And then how does that really create a long-lasting value?

And we propose a methodology that I have over the 20 years in all these organizations that I've worked with to take them to the next level. There you go. And these are important for leaders, CEOs to think about. The next section that you talk about is transformation versus digitalization, necessary steps. CEOs to think about. The next section that you talk about is transformation versus digitalization, necessary steps. Talk to us about what those action items mean.

Sure. I mean, look, digitization is kind of like the first step. Like, for example, you know, I got volume of paper that I used to stack in my file cabinet. I don't need to do that now. I can put it on a drive and I can have better access. So that's a basic example of digitization, right? Transformation is when you are saying, okay, I have all these vast amount of information. What do I do to learn from my past? And how do I plan for the future, knowing what I've done in the past that worked or didn't work and where the

market is going and how it's going, it's really taking advantage of the information and turning that into analytics for better decision making, right? So that's where the transformation comes in play. And, you know, obviously, you know, as we know that, you know, 90% of the things that you try often don't come a reality. It fails for whatever reason. So you have to create a portfolio of innovation and you have to kind of push them forward and see which one sticks and then say, okay, well, I've tried about 10 things and five of them worked and three of them died out, but one of them really outliers.

So I'm going to devote my resource around it. So that, that, that's what the transformative mindset and transformational model comes in play where just like your financial portfolio, I mean, you're not going to, you know, if you're smart, you're not going to take all your savings and put it against one real estate investment and hope for the best. You're going to probably spread out in different areas. Similarly, if you are a leader in a large organization, you make bets on different things and you create an innovation portfolio and you communicate with the organization to portray why they're doing.

This why aspect is probably far more important than anything else because if people do not understand why they're doing what they're doing, you know, this why aspect is probably far more important than anything else, because if people do not understand why they're doing what they're doing, they never buy into it. Right. And, and so that element is, is a super critical and super important. There you go. Note to self, quit investing in one real estate vehicle. Oh, there you go. I just had to make that note. Some of the, some of the, since you quoted on, on running attempts to, I just,

I'm just going to bury that joke. I can't set it up. The final section, you talk about what to do, navigating with lifts. What are lifts? Yeah. So it's a,

it's a five-step model, you know, a process that, where we talk about where you have to learn and you have to investigate, you have to formulate and you have to mobilize and then you have to monitor. Right. It's an acronym that I used to describe that five steps. So the step number one is really analyzing where you are and where do you fit in the world and where you can add your value as an organization. I'm sure you've heard of this idea of blue ocean and red ocean theory

where you may want to go after a market segment that are less populated or less competitive because you have a unique offering or unique capability. So it starts looking at that and then formulating the ideas in the context of portfolio, whereby I say, look, I've got four or five ideas that I'm going to tackle this year in terms of my growth strategy by utilizing technology, and I'm going to try them out and see which one of them really adds value.

Once you've done that, then you have to mobilize. Once you have that strategy, then you have to mobilize your organization by communicating why it's important for the organization and how does individual people play a role to contribute in that? Because, you know, this is about innovation and creativity, right? So creative and innovative people doesn't buy into things unless they can see why they're doing it and how their particular skill set plays a role into that why. It's like calling upon the higher purpose. So you have to mobilize the organization with that why, and then you can start executing it.

And while you're executing it, you have to start monitoring to see whether the execution model is really working and where can you tweak it so that it can be modified or adapted and sometimes abandoned because it's not working anymore. So that's kind of the process from beginning to end to mobilizing the entire organization to be transformative. There you go lifts learn investigate formulate take off and study once again i'll be using that on my tinder profile my dating gaming so there you go give us your final pitch as we go out on the show for people

order of the books get to know you better and reach out for whatever services you offer on your website sure look i mean i i wrote the the books and I pledged all my book receipt for cancer research. I have a cancer surviving son. He's now 21. So it has become a cause for me. So all the book receipt goes to cancer research. It's particularly for myeloma, multiple myeloma, which is the cancer that he suffers from. If you buy the book, you'll be doing some good to some kid or somebody who's suffering. So that's what the books are. The work I do is really for Fortune 500 and for large government agencies.

I have a piece of software that I use to do this transformational type of work. And you can find about my work on my website. And I'm an avid knowledge sharer. So every day I push out something on LinkedIn. There's nothing to sell. You don't have to buy anything. Anybody can take advantage of that and maybe learn something,

whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you're a CEO of a large organization or a coach that tried to mobilize a team for higher performance, you can leverage those nuggets of information and knowledge that I share by learning from other people as well as my own work. So you're trying to help everybody be smarter, which is what we talked about earlier in the show. There you go.

And it sounds like a worthy effort as well. Thank you very much for coming on the show so really appreciate it thanks for having me chris thank you and come back for your future books you you're pretty prolific how many do you have now i have eight so the next one would be nine if i can manage to finish it so there you go i have a feeling you'll do it you'll pull it off and your last several have been wall street journal bestsellers too as well we should get that plug in there there you go thank you very much for coming on the show thanks for honest for tuning in go to goodreads.com

fortress chris foss linkedin.com fortress chris foss chris foss one of the tickety-tockety and i don't know there's linkedin newsletter and the big linkedin 130 000 group over there thanks for being here we certainly appreciate you guys we'll see you next time