The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Revolutionize Empty Nesting: Embrace BirdyLauncher for Moms’ New Chapter

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Revolutionize Empty Nesting: Embrace BirdyLauncher for Moms' New Chapter Birdylauncher.com/freeoffer About the Guest(s): Hanna Bankier is a renowned coach, change catalyst, and speaker dedicated to helping women navigate life transitions, specifically as their children leave the nest. With over 20 years of experience in television, Hanna Bankier shifted her focus towards impactful personal and professional change solutions in 2017. Her insights are profoundly shaped by her journey through the birdie launcher phase—a time when mothers adapt to their children's departure from home. Hannah is the founder of BirdieLauncher.com, a platform designed to support women in rediscovering joy and purpose during this transitional life stage. Episode Summary: In this enlightening episode of The Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss welcomes Hanna Bankier, a distinguished speaker and change catalyst, to discuss the transformative birdylauncher concept. This engaging discussion delves into the intricacies of helping mothers find purpose and joy after their children leave the nest, rebranding the often-dreaded "empty nest" phase into an empowering journey of self-discovery and growth. Hanna Bankier shares her innovative approach to redefining parenthood beyond children's upbringing, emphasizing the importance of evolving parenting strategies for emerging adults. Explore the three critical phases—grief, relief, and joy—that mothers often experience and learn how to transition smoothly while fostering personal growth and renewed sense of self. With insightful discussions on avoiding common parental pitfalls, the conversation uncovers the power of community and preparation in embracing change wholeheartedly. This episode is packed with practical advice for mothers facing this pivotal transition and offers a refreshing perspective on creating meaningful connections and friendships post-parenthood. Key Takeaways: Embrace the concept of a "birdylauncher" to positively shift the perception of an empty nest, focusing on personal growth and renewed freedom. Understand the three phases of the birdylauncher journey: grief, relief, and joy, and how navigating these emotions is vital for a successful transition. Avoid common parenting mistakes during this phase by evolving your relationship with your children into a mentorship and adjusting family dynamics. Importance of community support: Engage with other mothers for shared experiences and guidance during this transitional stage. Rediscover your identity and interests post-parenthood to ensure a fulfilling and enriching life for the decades beyond active parenting. Notable Quotes: “How is the nest empty if I, the mama, am still in it?” “Parenting is about 80% managing your own anxiety.” “We have to manage all of those emotions and make space for them again without getting stuck.” “You get to co-create your new version of your relationship.” “Ultimately, you have to show your kid that you are living your best life, much like you want for them.”

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster

with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, it's Voss here from the Chris Voss Show. Dot com. As you know, in the early scenes of the mix official, welcome to the show. As always, for 16 years, 23 in episodes, we brought you The Chris Voss Show with all the brightest, most smartest people during it on the show.

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bringing you 10 to 15 new shows a week. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or The Chris Voss Show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. As always, the most amazing guests, we have an amazing young lady on the show with us today, Hannah Bankier.

Joins us on the show. She is a sought after coach, change catalyst and speaker. She's dedicated to guiding and supporting women through their birdie launcher transition. She calls it helping moms in adapting to change and finding joy and purpose as their little ones leave the nest. She spent 20 plus years in television, left her VP position to do more of what she truly enjoys, help connect people to possibilities.

She founded Working Solutions in 2017 to guide individuals through both professional and personal change. Seeing counsel from other moms and reflecting deeply on the transition of her oldest child was about to launch, she became a go-to birdie launcher friend and it has called to share her gifts in growing and developing women's assets in themselves. She's now eager to more widely share her insights with a wider community of bird mamas and thus created birdylauncher.com. Welcome to the show. How are you, Hannah? Hannah Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great.

Pete Thank you, Hannah. And givison.com is where can people find you on the interwebs. Hannah Yeah, birdylauncher.com, Birdy with a Y, that's where all the wisdom, the insights, and the connections are to be found. All right. So why do you call it birdy launcher? Yes, thank you. I want to reframe. I believe that words really impact our experience and how we go through life and the words matter.

So the term empty nester doesn't sit well with me and it's for a few different reasons. One is, how is the nest empty if I, the mama, am still in it? That's a good point. That is a good point, right? It's not empty. I'm still here. And it has to do a little bit of this thing, that oftentimes women, when we're no longer of reproductive age, we're being sort of thrown to the side. So we're not even visible. But I am much very much still in my home. And so my nest is not empty. Thank you very much. Secondly, I picture something kind of sad when I hear the term empty nest, right? There's this pooped out, dried out, maybe a leftover feather from a youngin in there,

and that's not how I want a picture and feel in my home. I want a warm, welcoming, connected place where people want to spend time. So that doesn't sit well with me either. Pete Slauson And a nest that maybe, sorry to interrupt you, maybe a nest that the birds will return to. Exactly. Like, at least they come for visits. We don't necessarily want them all to boomerang and move back in, but we want them to feel warm and welcome. And thirdly, why the term empty nest doesn't sit well with me is really that I believe that this process of transitioning your life and your relationships and your identity happens long before ideally the kid has left. And it happens whether you're launching your first,

your last, or your only. There is this process that you go through as a mama bird and I want to get into that sooner. So I'm scratching empty nest and I am still offering this reframe of a birdie launcher. Where you know not only are you launching your kiddos out in the world as you should, right, that's part of parenting, but you also in that process get to relaunch and refetter yourself and you become a free bird which is very very different, right? Empty nest, free bird. It sounds so different. So, I'm going with birdie launcher all the way. I like it. Birdie launcher, it's a much more positive connotation.

What are the, you've identified three phases of being a birdie launcher. What is about those? Yeah, so for most of us, we go through these three different stages in the process of being a burden launcher. And we start with the grief, because there's a tremendous sense of loss. And here's this child that you have poured your heart and your mind and your money and your energy into for all these years, some 18 or so years, and they're going to leave. And it's sad also, it changes things. You're gonna miss them terribly. So there's a tremendous amount of loss and grief. And this culture that we're in, we don't do grief

particularly well. So I want to really make space for that and just get to feel all your feelings without getting stuck. So we don't want to get stuck into the grief, right? So then we move into the relief. As much as you probably have enjoyed parenting and this most challenging and rewarding thing that we do, what is it that you won't miss? Hmm. So let's- The current kids. No more getting. Right? Some of the parts that come with the kids. We won't miss that is the

teenagers, those teenagers, the smelly ones with the foul attitude with the box on the floor with their slamming doors. They're not doing the chores. You can't get to sleep at night because they haven't come home yet and you can't, you know, relax until you hear them walking in the door. So there's a lot lunchboxes made carpools in the door. So there's a lot. Lunchboxes made, carpools figured out, dental appointments. There's a lot of things that you're allowed to not miss. And some moms get stuck here too because we've been so socialized to feel guilty if we don't put our kids first all the time, all the way.

So there's like the grief, we move into the relief and leave the guilt behind, and then we want to move into the joy, which is the third phase. And this is really where you, as the mama bird, get to create and write these next chapters of your life. So, let's make them yummy and juicy. Pete Now, does that, any of this really apply to the,

to the, I mean, can dads be an empty birdie launcher? Ana Of course, yes. Pete I know they get guilt too. Ana Dads feel it too. And more so, this generation of dads that have been more hands-on in the parenting, so they feel it too, and more so this generation of dads that have been more hands on in the parenting. So they feel it too, for sure. Yeah, it's definitely. I never had kids, so I never went through the

experience of trying to get them out of the house. I just got them out of the house right away, technically, with the vasectomy. But no, I see a lot of my friends online. They're upset, they're sad. And it's kind of like, I mean, you're used to living with this person. So this person has been in your space 24-7 and you've been, you know, dealing with them. And all of a sudden, you know, they're gone.

And there's kind of that empty hole, that empty space, that empty time, that empty person that you used to see every day. There's probably a lot of worry too about, you know, are they okay? You know, since you're not, you can't see them every day, you can't know if they're okay. Exactly. We can't keep that closed tabs on them. You're not going to see them, you're not going to see.

So they have left, whether they're off to college or moving on into adulting for whatever, you know, in other ways. And so how are you going to stay and keep close? How are you going to keep them close when they're far away? And you are worried and that you as a mom, like as a parent, I usually say that parenting is about 80 percent manage your own anxiety. Yes. And that doesn't end because there are now emerging adults and leaving. And especially since you can't see them.

And so what how are you going to manage all of those emotions and making space for them again without getting stuck? And that's where when I work with my clients, I see when we follow the framework and we really make a plan helps. We know any transition, any change when we anticipate, when we reflect, when we make a plan and prepare, we usually get a much stronger and better outcome. So that's what I'm encouraging my birdie mamas to do. So tell me about some of the mistakes that birdie launcher moms and parents are making. What are some

of the things they screw up in getting their kids launched? Yeah. So there's a few different mistakes. I'm very common. One is we don't evolve our parenting. So part of it, the challenge is this fear of as a mom, will I no longer be needed when they leave and I will. Sure. All mommas out there. Yes, you will still be needed. Parenting will take on a different flavor. And if your kids off the college,

college does not parent. So there's plenty more for you to do that. But one of those mistakes is that we don't evolve our parenting. And if we're going to parent an 18, 19, 20 year old the same way we did when they were 10, we're not going to be successful birdie launchers because they will revolt and they will not like it. And they will not want to be close birdie launchers because they will revolt and they will not like it and they will not want to be close to you. So going, doing that transition, the process of going from mama to mama mentor is a crucial, crucial step in doing birdie launching. And I had with my oldest, we had a lot of fun with this process.

So I started working or talking to him about this already in the fall of his senior year in high school. And I said, Hey, sweets, you know, you're going to grow up and become an adult. And I will of course, always be your mom. And so it's not like we're going to be peers. But as you're adulting more and more, then this relationship will shift. So what do we want to do with that? And first he just looked at me.

What do you mean? What do you mean? I was like, yeah, but you and I together, sweets, we get to co-create our new version of our new relationship. So what do we want it to look and feel like? And, and we were played around with a bunch of different titles for me and job descriptions, if you will. So, was it, was I going to be a sounding board, an advisor, a consultant, a mentor or a coach?

And of course, he said, no, you cannot be my coach. That's what you do for work. I don't want that. So we landed at the mentor part. So we had to transfer our relationships where I had to evolve my parenting. And that's the mistake that many, many moms are making or parents in general. Another mistake is, again, that we don't really anticipate this tremendous transition. I call it, as a parent, is one of your major life transitions.

The first one is when your little baby comes home, however they come into your world. And then when your much, much bigger baby leaves the nest, that's a major parenting transition and identity shift. So how are you going to plan and prepare for that? And it's easy to as a mama to get into, oh, it's all about the college applications and then it's graduation parties and then there's this and this. It's all about the kid all the time and we forget to make a plan. Or we might plan, spend more time planning a trip to Europe than this major life transition. So that's another mistake that many are making.

A third mistake is oh it's just how it is. It's natural. Yes, that is true. Again, right? Score, you did it. You have launched them or you're going to launch them. Congratulations. And let's not forget that it's a big deal and you're going to feel all your feels. So let's make space for it and not negate it or try to push it to the side. A fourth mistake that many, many moms are making is thinking that they have to go on it, at it alone. So they feel all these like sadness and grief and confusion and overwhelm and what is it going to look like? And we know humans don't do well with uncertainty and they're going to just suck it up and do

it because that's what moms do. Forgetting or like omitting, repeating themselves from getting into being in community, being with mamas that are going through the same thing where we can share experiences and have somebody else to lean on and finding solace in that are some of the more common mistakes. Pete A lot of mistakes that people can make and sometimes, and part of it is about moving on for yourself. I think you kind of alluded to, you know, sliding vacations and finding stuff for yourself to do and not making your kid who left the house your number one focus maybe. Yeah. And that's tricky because many moms, you know, we've been hands on parenting, pouring so much of our identity and our time and energy into this child that a lot of the things that

you might have enjoyed to do pre-parenting has not been available to you or you haven't been able to make it available to you. And so now when they leave, who am I? Who am I as a person? Who am I as a mom? Who am I as a woman? What do I want to do? Who? What do I enjoy? It might not be the same things, you know, I was a club hopper back in the day. That's not necessarily what I want to do today as my kids are leaving. So how do I slow down to create space for really feeling and exploring what I want to do? What are my next several chapters of my life going to look and feel like? And I think what happens often is that we get so stuck into the mom identity, that we don't realize that you probably hands on mom somewhere around 20 years. And the average

age when the last kid leaves the nest for moms in the US is around 51. And if we think about the lifespan for women, it goes into the mid 80s. So we're looking at three, four decades of life post the mental load, hands on parenting. So what is that going to look and feel like? What do you want to do? What kind of impact do you want to have? What kind of contributions do you want to have? What kind of contributions do you want to make? What is that freedom for you, again, without the guilt and not feeling guilty about enjoying those chapters of your life?

Pete Yeah. I mean, you need to. It's a necessary format of life. I mean, you raise the children and then get them the hell out of the house. My dad was like, what are you going to do for a job? I'm like, I don't know. I got fired around 18. He's like, you're hell out of the house. My dad was like, what are you gonna do for a job? I'm like, I don't know, I got fired around 18. He's like, you're not sitting around my house. Nope.

Better go find a job and start working there. And I had college lined up, so he knew that I was eventually gonna leave, I guess. What does, so what does this concept of birdie launcher, what are some of these, what are some of the ways that it looks like when you do birdie launching? Oh, yes. What it looks like means that you start ideally long before you're signing, congratulations on your graduation cards. Ideally, you start thinking and planning

and shifting already junior year of high school to really really start, you know, we know that when we want to change and transform something, and especially if that's a relationship, it takes time. And it's so much easier to do it when you are actually still in the same nest under the same roof, but you can play around a little bit and try and see what works and what doesn't work. play around a little bit and try and see what works and what doesn't work. So when you do it well, you start early, you make a plan, you probably follow this framework, and then you include all the other people in the process. Because there's one thing to have the most obvious changing relationship is the one that you have with your soon flown bird.

But those other relationships in your same household will also shift. So if there are siblings, younger siblings, they may or may not like all of a sudden getting all that extra attention. Oh, yeah. They might have been like, no, I've lived in the shadow of my older sibling and it's been kind of comfortable back here and you don't pay so much attention to me and now they're leaving and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. All these beams of light and all this attention and am I as a mom now going to compensate my hands-on parenting by doubling down on hands-on parenting the younger siblings? Probably not going to be so well received

so let's not do that. And then if you are partnered or married, let's look at that relationship. Are you still in a connected, growthy, healthy, romantic relationship or have you over this past couple of decades of parenting turned into roommates and you just live under the same roof? Yeah. Might be a time to refocus on your relationship, huh? Jena For sure, if you want to keep it. Because what we see is a grand divorce is going up. It is a large group of divorces and it's going

up. So, the likelihood of getting a divorce post last kid leaving is about 40%. Pete Oh, wow. Jena So, mind your marriage if you want to keep it. Pete Definitely. I would think that, you know, that would be a time to kind of refocus on your person. Marcia Yes. Pete And maybe, you know, if there's things missing, you know, sometimes things get lost in these, as people are raising kids, but you know, it gives you a chance to, you know,

find out who this person is, rediscover each other, go travel. I mean, that's kind of the thing you're supposed to be doing is traveling and spending time together and this is, this is the time that you do that. You know, you got all this free time on your hands and, and you can go do things. So that seems like that would be a smart play, but you know, you're right. A lot of people, they grow apart over the years and time, you know, it time. I've seen a lot of people lately, they were married 20, 24 years and that's kind of run its course. Yeah. You have to keep on nurturing it, right? Or do a restart and that's part of the re-feathering.

Do we still choose each other? Is this a time to sort of renew our vows and re-engage in this relationship that is now our primary again because there isn't just all the adminning of being the CEOs and the CFOs and the CMOs of this company called Family. So is this a place then, and now you also do have more time and more energy for that relationship because the other time suckers, these lovely children, are no longer here and requiring your day-to-day involvement to the same extent.

And they can work on the next successful chapter of their life. You talk about identifying your worries, name them to tame them. Tell us about how that works. Yeah, so that's definitely one of the things that we do as coaches. We say that if we haven't named what our challenges are, we can't tame them, we can't address them. We get stuck in there,

I've just this worry loop or we have some feeling or some experience in our bodies, and until we can verbalize them and name them, and put them onto paper, we can't really start focusing on addressing them and finding solutions. Naming them to tame them is a go-to coaching term and it fits really well here as well. And I think for mamas also,

the way that parenting has shifted over the decades, we're so used to being so heavily involved in our children's lives. What about their wellbeing when they're away or they're moving into college and will they make friends and are they going to be able to do this and are they going to eat enough and can they do this and have I actually taught them the adulting skills that they will need? Yeah, that's a good thing to prepare for. I graduated high school with so many kids that didn't have any skills.

A lot of men didn't know how to wash their own clothes, didn't know how to wash dishes, didn't know how to use a dishwasher. And when I moved in with a bunch of dudes, you know, post high school, getting ready for college, you know, I was just shocked at how many guys didn't know how to do any of the sort of basic stuff of living on their own. I was like, I need to get married so I can find a wife. And I'm like, dude, you should learn to do this yourself. You just go marry somebody just because you need to figure out how to clean the house

and stuff. And I was lucky that my mom and dad prepared us for our lives and going on doing them. And I was just shocked at how many, they didn't know the basics of cleaning dishes or how dishes would pile up or how to use the dishwasher. And what do you do with this thing? How to use the clothes washer and stuff like that. And you're just like, your mom did all this stuff up to this point. I mean, my mom kind of trained us to move out of the house. And I think that's a smart thing for people because, you know. Yeah. And I believe you're totally right. This is as parents, I believe that a large part of our parenting is really to raise future adults. And if we don't teach them these things. So,

in my kids, they wanted an iPad really bad. And I said, if you can push two buttons on an iPad, you can push two buttons on the laundry machine. So they have done their own laundry since they were 10. I mean, why? There is no reason. I'm not more capable. I am in the beginning until I've taught them and you know, their clothes weren't always neatly folded and put away the way I would have done it, but ultimately I'm not going to move into college with them.

So ultimately they need to be able to fend for themselves. My oldest was telling this story, his freshman year, he calls me one day and he's like, Mom, there's a kid up here in my dorm. And this is maybe two months into college, right? Freshman year. He hasn't done laundry yet. And I was like, wow, okay, tell me more. He's like, yeah, he doesn't know how. So I was like, six, eight weeks into college, this kid is an athlete. I was like, how many dirty stinky socks is there in that room? So I was asking, that's an interesting story. Is there anything you want to do about it? He's like, I think I'm going to just take him and just show him how it's done. And I was like, that is a beautiful gift to

give this child. And for whatever reason, it wasn't a skill or a gift that he had been given prior to moving away. And I think we see that a lot. There's so much helicopter parenting where parents want to primarily be their kid kids best friends as opposed to a parent. And there is this transition of these skills are not happening always. So that is something that we can definitely start doing much, much sooner and definitely not wait till senior year. But should you wake up in, you know, after Christmas, a senior year of high school and realize, huh, my kid does not know how to cook, does not know how to balance a checkbook, does not know how to do laundry. And then lucky for you,

you have about six, eight months to get that ready before they move out. Pete Yeah. I mean, a lot of helicopter parenting and stuff that goes on, it really disables the ability for children to do stuff. You know, we see this with the Gen Z entering the working world. And one of their big problems is, you know, they're so used to their parents. I mean, I joke wiping their own butt, you know, that they don't know how to do it themselves. They don't know how to deal with failure. They don't know how to deal with rejection. They don't know how to deal with life.

You know, you always hear them running around. I'm not saying all gents ears, but you'll hear them usually running around going, like, you can fear and you just want to slap the shit out of them because like, yeah, so this is so unfair in a sense because we get frustrated because the children aren't at a place where we would want them or these young adults, but they didn't raise themselves. So it goes back to, if they haven't been taught, how are they supposed to know? So how do we, again, as parents,

if you wanna successfully launch our birds, what is it that we are transferring? What skills are we teaching them so they can do it? And going back to your point earlier about taming our worries, a big worry is that we want to continuously remove all these obstacles for our children because we don't want them to suffer. And that is actually not serving them, nor is it serving us. So we have to deal with our own worry, again, manage our own anxieties as parents and teach our kids and really allow them to make their, live their lives, mistakes and all.

Pete I think some, I think some parents, I don't know, do it as a, it's almost a way of sabotage. Like, I know parents that they, their children are their best friends and their kids are living with them and they're still supporting them, you know, up until they're like 30 now. It's kind of sad because the only friends they have are their children. They don't socialize with other people. They don't have a healthy relationship outside of their family. And their kids, you know, their kids don't know any better The kids like mommy says I can stay at home or daddy So, you know daddy's my best friend and I play video games with them you know, I I'm his friend and you know, and I've seen them, you know the co-signing for all the loans and supporting the kids and

Basically making it so the kids never have to leave the house, you know, kind of a there's kind of a joke about the kids never have to leave the house. There's kind of a joke about Boomer parents and Gen X parents, I think Boomer parents more so, they made it miserable at home. So you wanted to leave the house. You were like, from 10, you were like, I want to get the hell out of this place. This is a madhouse. And I think they did it on purpose because they were just like, if know, if you want, oh, you don't like it here? You can move out. Yeah. And there was no expectation. The expectation has really shifted what is parenting and for how long. And I think the point you made earlier about how do we not put our lives onto our children.

Our children's jobs are not to soothe us or to be available to us. It is our job as parents to, much like we tell our kids, there's a big world out there for you, go explore, go live it. We have to do that same thing. We have to model that behavior. I have a client of mine, she was really worried about this and it turned out that her kid was worried about moving away to college because who was going to take care of his mom. And I was like, well, you raised a very empathetic, conscientious child and that is not your child's job, is not to take care of you emotionally in this way. So we worked through all of that and now she comes out and she says, you know what?

I get to be this other person and I get to show my kid that I am living my best life much like I want for him. So it shifted their entire relationship from him feeling really burdened by this mom who put all her emotional stuff onto him, to him saying, okay, there's space for me. I am allowed to stretch my wings and live my life because I can rely on my mom is doing that for her. Pete Slauson I imagine it might be harder to have your kid move out if you're a single mom.

You don't have a partner or vice versa, I suppose, a single dad. It might be harder for them to move out because you technically don't have anybody hanging around once they move out. You know, at least if you're married, you've got somebody to hang out with. And imagine that can be a whole new sort of thing. You've got freedom of time to date or do whatever you want or travel or pursue your hobbies, but you know, you're kind of alone and maybe some people have a fear of that. They're afraid to be alone with themselves for the first time in 20 years.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you see both ends, right? You see the moms that have been at kind of an enmeshed relationship with their children. And that, again, has been so much of their identity. And that's how they feel needed. And that's how they feel valued. And they're like, oh, you can't leave. What is my life going to look like and feel like? And then you have the ones that have been like, who? You know, I can finally throw up my feet on the couch when I come home from work

and not do all of these other things. And there is now the time and the space for me to pursue my interest and have impact in the world and contribute in ways that wasn't available. And with most things, it's not either or, it's usually a both and, right? You can feel that tremendous sense of loss and figuring out how am I not going to feel lonely in this? Because again, we're probably looking at three, four decades. Three, four decades you got to spend with yourself alone, right? Yeah, or not alone, right? You might be alone in the beginning and then you find your community.

And I think a place that I see here is really where female friendships come in to play and the importance of them. And we see study after study that show that men live longer, happier and healthier when they're married and women, the happier and healthier relationships and how they take care of themselves often come from female friendships. So we need our communities, we need our friends. And when you go through this with the generations of moms, when you know, most of your friends might, you might have actually got to know most of your friends through your children. So they are all more or less leaving at the same time, which then frees up this space to do things together

with your female friends. And I cannot underscore the importance of female friends for women. That is the super, super yummy. And then if you wanna try to repartner and go out in the romantic world, go for it. Don't limit your life. To make this plan what's gonna feel yummy and juicy for you for the next three, four decades,

it's definitely going to have to be bigger than I'm going to pick up, you know, start playing pickleball, right? It has to be bigger than that because there's so much more life to live. Oh, yeah, totally. So tell us about the services you offer on your website, how you help women with community, how you help women with workshops and support, etc., etc. Yeah. I work with women one-on-one and to, especially if you're really stuck in one of these places or you want to create a thorough plan that's going to be very tailored to your needs and your family's needs.

I also do a community group that I called the launching squad where we do come together in community. I host a bunch of different workshops, you know, sometimes online, sometimes in person. And I'm sharing this spreading this message because I really want women to rethink and reframe. You're not supposed to do this on your own. This is we're social human beings, we need a community. You will be better off when you go and you follow a framework and you have a plan and start that plan early.

I'm not gonna say it's gonna be too late if you wait until the kids have left, but certain things are just easier to deal with when you're in the same house. You can all find me at birdyl launcher.com and birdy with a Y. And pretty much anybody who's out there, who's got the potential. How many years before, let's say the kids, I don't know, whether they normally graduate high school at 18, they're going to college, maybe about 18, 20. How many years ahead do you

recommend that people start this process of birdie launching? Dr. Preeti Sivaramanian I would say, start shifting your parenting and going from less hands-on managing everything and letting go, let them do their laundry, let them cook a meal at once a week. That can be done much, much sooner already in their tween years. But really to start planning for this major life transition to feel more confident and competent, to be able to do it more ease and grace and moving away from the overwhelm and the loss and just the fear and the worry, I would strongly recommend starting junior year. So you have a couple of years

when you're still under the same roof, you already might get used to them having more freedom and independence by getting a driver's license and maybe they take themselves to carpools or maybe you do a big, they go off the summer between junior and senior year and you get to just feel like what does it feel like to not have them home all the time. So that is that's the plan and then if

you haven't gotten there yet, you know, some moms come to me once their kids have launched already and they sit and they do what I did the other day. I walked into my oldest child's room and I just sat on his bed and I both marveled over how freaking clean his room is but it's because he doesn't live there and then sat also and just missed him terribly. And he's a third year student, like college students, he's been gone for two and a half years and I just like miss him and marvel at the cleanliness of his room. So moms come to me also when they have, okay, I've been so busy, I prioritize the college applications and the graduation and moving them in and now I drove home or came home and it's been a week and now I'm feeling it viscerally. So they come to me then.

Some mamas come to me, they have launched their kid and maybe this child is not seeing college through or maybe they even see it through and then they come back. And they said, whoa, here I'm sitting with a boomerang. Now what do I do? A boomerang kid, right? You slipped it out and now it came back. And how are we negotiating our relationship and how do I help my kid not getting stuck so they don't end up living in the mama's garage with a train set till they're 60? What is that going to look and feel like? So that entire range, so from junior year all the way through, mamas come and we do it in community and we start

evolving our parenting and shifting and setting boundaries and expectations. Okay, you're moving back home. What does that look like? Are you going to pay? Are you going to have a job? Are you going to contribute? Do you chores? Like, again, we're parent-child, but are we roommates? What are those expectations and how do we make that explicit and talk about it so we can shift to make happier, healthier relationships? Because ultimately, that's the yummy part. Pete This is for a service called the fake your death when they move out service, so they can't find you to move back in.

And basically you fake your death and then you move to the opposite end of the country, change your name, your addresses and stuff. Then you just go live your life. You travel, you have fun, you got those kids out of your hair and they can't find you to complain or move back in. And it just works out well.

I'm sure that's a fantastic solution for many. And for me, like I really enjoy being close with my kids, right? I want my kids, they're not ready to be parents. I am not ready to be a grandma for many years. But having that relationship and watching them flourish and grow and stretch their wings and becoming themselves is such a gratifying, amazing part of the parenting, all these years of the parenting that you put in. And again, I just want to reassure mamas out there, college does not parent. You will still be needed, but you might be more of a

lighthouse than a hands-on making dental appointments and picking up dirty socks off the floor. You gotta learn to do all that on your own. You have to grow up sometime. Yes, for sure. We want that. So give a final pitch out to people. Tell them how they can onboard with you, they can reach out and find out more.coms, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah, first I wanna just offer, I have a freebie for your audience and it really comes down to that about evolving your parenting. So if you go to Birdie Launcher, Birdie with a Y, birdielauncher.com forward slash free offer. There's a free guide for you about evolving your parenting and really start thinking about it because that's a fantastic place to start. And otherwise find me at birdielaonsher.com and set up a time for a connection call and I will guide you and help you as you spread your wings as your little ones leave the nest.

Thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, Hannah. Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. Thank you and thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Go to GoodReese.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Forchess, Chris Foss. Chris Foss won the TikTok and all those crazy plays on the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should have a say. You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed.

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and those of us here from the Chris Voss show.com As you know in the early season that makes official welcome to the show as always for 16 years 23 in episodes we brought you the Chris Voss show with all the brightest most smartest people darn it on the show the people who share with you their stories their cathartic moments their lessons lessons of life, their journey, their things that they learned, and they share them with you so that you can improve your life, make your life better, and everything else. Sometimes someone might share with someone and you're like, I don't need to know about that, but you never know. There's always things that happen in the turns of life. So be sure

to listen to all the episodes of The Chris Voss Show, bringing you 10 to 15 new shows a week. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or The Chris Voss Show. Some guests to the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. As always, the most amazing guest, we have an amazing young lady on the show with us today, Hannah Bankier joins us on the show. She is a sought after coach, change catalyst, and speaker. She's dedicated to guiding and supporting women through their birdie launcher transition, she calls it, helping moms in adapting to change and finding joy and purpose as their

little ones leave the nest. She spent 20 plus years in television, left her VP position to do more of what she truly enjoys, help connect people to possibilities. She founded Working Solutions in 2017 to guide individuals through both professional and personal change. Seeing counsel from other moms and reflecting deeply on the transition of her oldest child was about to launch, she became a go-to birdie launcher friend. Hannah has called to share her gifts in growing and developing women's assets in themselves. She's now eager to more widely share her insights with a wider community of bird mamas and thus created BirdieLauncher.com. Welcome to the show. How are you, Hannah?

Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great. Welcome to the show. How are you, Hannah? Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great. Thank you, Hannah. And give us a.com where can people find you on the interwebs. Yeah, birdyl launcher.com, birdy with a Y, that's where all the wisdom, the insights, and the connections are to be found.

All right. So why do you call it birdy launcher? Yes, thank you. I want to reframe. I believe that words really impact our experience and how we go through life and the words matter. So, the term empty nester doesn't sit well with me and it's for a few different reasons. One is, how is the nest empty if I, the mama, am still in it?

That's a good point. That is a good point, right? It's not empty. I'm still here. And it has to do a little bit of this thing, that oftentimes women, when we're no longer of reproductive age, we're being sort of thrown to the side, so we're not even visible. But I am very much still in my home, and so my nest is not empty. Thank you very much. Secondly, I picture something kind of sad when I hear the term empty nest, right? There's this pooped out, dried out, maybe a leftover feather from a youngin in there. And that's not how I want to picture and feel in my home. I want a warm, welcoming, connected place where people want to spend time. So that doesn't sit well

with me either. Pete Slauson Sorry to interrupt you. Maybe a nest that the birds will return to. Ania Lujar-Villal Exactly. Like, at least they come for visits. We don't necessarily want them all to boomerang and move back in, but we want them to feel warm and welcome. And thirdly, why the term emptiness doesn't sit well with me is really that I believe that this process of transitioning your life and your relationships and your identity happens long before, ideally, the kid has left. And it happens, whether you're launching your first, your last, or your only. There is this process that you

go through as a mama bird and I want to get into that sooner. So I'm scratching empty nest and I am still offering this reframe of a birdie launcher. Where you know not only are you launching your kiddos out in the world, as you should, right? That's part of parenting, but you also in that process get to relaunch and refether yourself and you get to become a free bird, which is very, very different, right? Empty nest, free bird. It sounds so different. So I'm going with birdie launcher all the way. I like it. Birdie launcher, it's a much more positive connotation. What are the, you've identified three phases of being a Birdie launcher, it's a much more positive connotation. You've identified three phases of being a birdie launcher.

What's about those? Yeah, so for most of us, we go through these three different stages in the process of being a birdie launcher, and we start with the grief, because there's a tremendous sense of loss. Here's this child that you have poured your heart and your mind and your money and your energy into for all these years, some 18 or so years, and they're going to leave. And it's sad also. It changes things. You're going to miss them terribly. So there's a tremendous amount of loss and grief.

And this culture that we're in, we don't do grief particularly well. So I want to really make space for that and just get to feel all your feelings without getting stuck. So we don't want to get stuck into the grief, right. So then we move into the relief. As much as you probably have enjoyed parenting and is most challenging and rewarding thing that we do, what is it that you won't miss? So let's... The children, kids.

You're right. Some of the parts that come with the kids we won't miss. That is the truth. Those teenagers. Those teenagers, the smelly ones with the foul attitude, with the socks on the floor, with their slamming doors, they're not doing their chores. You can't get to sleep at night because they haven't come home yet and you can't, you know, relax until you hear them walking in the door. So there's a lot lunchbox is made carpools figure out dental appointment. There's a lot of things that you're allowed

to not miss. And some moms get stuck here too because we're being so socialized to feel guilty if we don't put our kids first all the time all the way. So there's like the grief we move into the relief and leave the guilt behind and then we want to move into the joy, which is the third phase. And this is really where you, as the mama bird, get to create and write these next chapters of your life. So, let's make them yummy and juicy. Pete Now, does any of this really apply to the, I mean, can dads be a birdie launcher? Of course. Yes. I know they get guilt too.

Dads feel it too. And more so this generation of dads that have been more hands-on in the parenting, so they feel it too, for sure. Yeah, it's definitely. I never had kids, so I never went through the experience of trying to get them out of the house. I just got them out of the house right away. Yeah. With the vasectomy, but no, I see a lot of my friends online. They're, they're upset, they're sad. They, and it's kind of like, I mean, you're used to living with this person. So this person has been in your space 24 seven and you've been, you know, dealing with them and all of a sudden, you know, they're gone and there's kind of that

empty hole, that empty space, that empty time, that empty person that you used to see every day. There's probably a lot of worry too about, are they okay? Since you can't see them every day, you can't know they're okay. Exactly. We can't keep that closed tabs of them. You're not going to see them. You're not going to see. So they have left, whether they're off to college or moving on into adulting for whatever, you know, in other ways. And so how are you going to stay and keep close? How are you going to keep them close when they're far away? And you are worried and that you as a mom, like as a parent, I usually say that

parenting is about 80 percent manage your own anxiety. Yes, and that doesn't end because they're now emerging adults and leaving and especially since you can't see them. And so how are you going to manage all of those emotions and making space for them again without getting stuck? And that's where when I work with my clients, I see when we follow the framework and we really make a plan, it helps. We know any transition, any change, when we anticipate, when we reflect, when we make a plan and prepare, we usually get a much stronger and better outcome. So that's what I'm encouraging my birdie mamas to do.

Ah, so tell me about some of the mistakes that birdie launcher moms and parents are making. What are some of the things they screw up in getting their kids launched? Yeah, so there's a few different mistakes, very common. One is we don't evolve our parenting. So part of the challenge is this fear of as a mom, will I no longer be needed when they leave? And I will assure all mamas out there mom, will I no longer be needed when they leave? And I will assure all mamas out there, yes, you will still be needed. Parenting will take on a different flavor. And if your kid's off the college, college does not parent. So there's

plenty more for you to do that. But one of those mistakes is that we don't evolve our parenting. And if we're going to parent an 18, 19, 20-year-old the same way we did when they were 10, we're not going to be successful birdie launchers because they will revolt and they will not like it and they will not want to be close to you. So going, doing that transition, the process of going from mama to mama mentor is a crucial, crucial step in doing birdie launching. And I had with my oldest, we had a lot of fun with this process. So I started working or talking to him about this already in the fall of his senior year

in high school. And I said, Hey, sweets, you know, you're going to grow up and become an adult. And I will, of course, always be your mom. And so it's not like we're going to be peers. But as you're adulting more and more, then this relationship will shift. So what do we want to do with that? And first, he just looked at me. What do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, but you and I together, sweets, we get to co createcreate our new version of our new relationship. So what do we want it to look and feel like? And we were played around with a bunch of different

titles for me and job descriptions, if you will. So was it, was I going to be a sounding board, an advisor, a consultant, a mentor or a coach? And of course he said, no, you cannot be my coach. That's what you do for work. I don't want that. So we landed at the mentor part. So we had to transfer our relationships where I had to involve my parenting. And that's a mistake that many, many moms are making or parents in general. Another mistake is, again, that we don't really anticipate this

tremendous transition. I call it, as a parent, is one of your major life transitions. The first one is when your little baby comes home, however they come into your world, and then when your much, much bigger baby leaves the nest, that's a major parenting transition and identity shift. So how are you going to plan and prepare for that? And it's easy to, as a mama, to get into, oh, it's all about the college applications, and then it's graduation parties, and then there's this and this, it's all about the kid all the time, and we forget to make a plan plan or we might plan, spend more time planning a trip to Europe than this major life transition. So that's another mistake that many are making.

A third mistake is, oh, it's just how it is. It's natural. Yes, that is true. Again, right? Score, you did it. You have launched them or you're going to launch them. Congratulations. And let's not forget that it, it's a big deal and you're going to feel all your

feels. So let's make space for it and not negate it or try to push it to the side. A fourth mistake that many, many moms are making is thinking that they have to go on it at it alone. So they feel all these like sadness and grief and confusion and overwhelm and what is it going to look like and we know humans don't do well with uncertainty and they're going to just suck it up and do it because that's what moms do. Forgetting or like omitting, or repeaving themselves from getting into being in community, being with mamas that are going through the same thing where we can share experiences and, you know, have somebody else to lean on and finding solace in that are some of the more common mistakes.

Pete A lot of mistakes that people can make and sometimes, and part of it is about moving on for yourself. I think you kind of alluded to, you know, signing vacations and finding stuff for yourself to do and not making your kid who left the house your number one focus maybe. Yeah. And that's tricky because many moms, you know, we've been hands-on parenting, pouring so much of our identity and our time and energy into this child, that a lot of the things that you might have enjoyed to do pre-parenting has not been available to you, or you haven't been able to make it available to you. And so now when they leave, who am I?

Who am I as a person? Who am I as a mom? Who am I as a woman? What do I wanna do? Who, what do I enjoy? It might Who am I as a woman? What do I want to do? What do I enjoy? It might not be the same things, you know, I was a club hopper back in the day. That's not necessarily what I want to do today as my kids are leaving. So how do I slow down to create space for really feeling and exploring what I want to do. What are my next several chapters

of my life going to look and feel like? And I think what happens often is that we get so stuck into the mom identity that we don't realize that you're probably hands-on mom somewhere around 20 years. And the average age when the last kid leaves the nest for moms in the US is around 51. And if we think about the lifespan for women, it goes into the mid 80s. So we're looking at three, four decades of life post the mental load, hands on parenting. So what what is that gonna look and feel like? What do you wanna do? What kind of impact do you wanna have? What kind of contributions do you wanna make? What is that freedom for you, again, without the guilt

and not feeling guilty about enjoying those chapters of your life. Yeah. I mean, you need to. It's a necessary format of life. I mean, you raise the children and then get them the hell out of the house. My dad was like, what are you going to do for a job? I'm like, I don't know. I got fired around 18. He's like, you're not sitting around my house. Nope. You better go find a job and start working there.

And I had college lined up, so he knew that I was eventually going to leave, I guess. So what does this concept of birdie launcher, what are some of the ways that it looks like when you do birdie launching? Oh, yes. What it looks like means that you start ideally long before you're signing, you know, congratulations on your graduation cards. Ideally, you start thinking and planning and shifting already junior year of high school. So really start, you know, we know that when we want to change and transform something,

and if, especially if that's a relationship, it takes time. And it's so much easier to do it when you are actually still in the same nest under the same roof, where you can play around a little bit and try and see what works and what doesn't work. So when you do it well, you start early, you make a plan, you probably follow this framework, and then you include all the other people in the process, because there's one thing to have the most obvious changing relationship is the one that you have with your soon flown bird. But those other relationships in your same household will also shift. So if there are siblings, younger siblings, they may or may not like all of a sudden getting all that extra attention. Oh, yeah. They might

be like, No, I've lived in the shadow of my older sibling. And it's been kind of comfortable back here and you don't pay so much attention to me. And now they're leaving. And I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, all these beams of light and all this attention. And am I as a mom now going to compensate my hands on parenting by doubling down on hands on parenting the younger siblings? Probably not going to be so well received. So let's not do that. And then if you are partnered or married, let's look at that relationship. Are you still in a connected, growth know, healthy, romantic relationship?

Or have you over this past couple of decades of parenting turned into roommates and you just live under the same roof? Pete Yeah. Might be a time to refocus on your relationship, huh? Marcia For sure, if you want to keep it. Because what we see is a grand divorce is going up. It is a large group of divorces and it's going up. So the likelihood of getting a divorce post last kid leaving is about 40%.

Pete Oh, wow. Marjory So, mind your marriage if you want to keep it. Pete Definitely. I would think that, you know, that would be a time to kind of refocus on your person. And maybe, you know, if there's things missing, you missing, sometimes things get lost in these people raising kids, but it gives you a chance to find out who this person is and rediscover each other, go travel. That's kind of the thing you're supposed to be doing is traveling and spending time together and this is the time that you do that.

You got all this free time on your hands and you can go do things. So that seems like that would be a smart play. But you know, you're right, a lot of people, they grow apart over the years and time, you know, it's, I've seen a lot of people lately, they, you know, they were married 20, 24 years and it's kind of run its course. Yeah. You have to keep on nurturing it, right? Or do a restart and that's part of the refethering. Do we still choose each other? Is this a time to sort of renew our vows and re-engage in this relationship that is now our primary again, because there isn't just all the adminning

of being the CEOs and the CFOs and the CMOs of this company called Family. So is this a place then, and now you also do have more time and more energy for that relationship because the other time suckers, these lovely children, are no longer here and requiring your day-to-day involvement to the same extent. Pete And they can work on the next successful chapter of their life. You talk about identifying your worries, name them to tame them. Tell us about how that works. Yeah. Yeah, so that's definitely one of the things that we do as coaches. We say that if we haven't named what our challenges are, we can't tame them, we can't address them.

So we get stuck in there, I've just this worry loop, or we have some feeling or some experience in our bodies, and until we can verbalize them and name them and sort of put them onto paper, we can't really start focusing on addressing them and finding solutions. So naming them to tame them is a go-to coaching term and it fits really well here as well. And I think for mamas also,

the way that parenting has shifted over the decades, we're so used to being so heavily involved in our children's lives. You know, what about their well-being when they're away or they're moving into college and will they make friends and are they going to be able to do this and are they going to eat enough and can they do this? And have I actually taught them the adulting skills that they will need? Yeah. That's a good thing to prepare for.

I graduated high school with so many kids that didn't have any skills. A lot of men didn't know how to wash their own clothes, didn't know how to wash dishes, didn't know how to use a dishwasher. And when I moved in with a bunch of dudes, you know, post high school, getting ready for college, I was just shocked at how many guys didn't know how to do any of the basic stuff of living on their own. A lot of times, I need to get married so I can find a wife.

I'm like, dude, you should learn to do this yourself. Just go marry somebody just because you need to figure out how to clean the house and stuff. I was lucky that my mom and dad prepared us for, you know, our lives and going on, doing them. And I was just shocked at how many, you know, they didn't know how the basics of cleaning dishes or, you know, dishes would pile up or how to use the dishwasher.

And what do you do with this thing? How to use the clothes washer and stuff like that. And you're just like, your mom did all this stuff up to this point. I mean, my mom kind of trained us to move out of the house and I think that's a smart thing for people cause you know. Yeah. And I believe you're totally right.

This is as parents, I believe that a large part of our parenting is really to raise future adults and if we don't teach them these things. So in my kids, they wanted an iPad really bad. And I said, if you can push two buttons on an iPad, you can push two buttons on the laundry machine. They have done their own laundry since they were 10. Yeah. I mean, why? There's no reason. I'm not more capable. I am in the beginning until I've taught them. And you know, their

clothes weren't always neatly folded and put away the way I would have done it. But ultimately I'm not gonna move into college with them So ultimately they need to be able to fend for themselves. My oldest was telling this story his freshman year He calls me one day and is like mom There's a kid up here in my dorm and this is maybe two months into college, right? Freshman year. He hasn't done laundry yet. And I was like, wow, okay, tell me more.

He's like, yeah, he doesn't know how. So I was like, six, eight weeks into college, this kid is an athlete. I was like, how many dirty stinky socks is there in that room? So I was asking, that's an interesting story. Is there anything you want to do about it? He's like, I think I'm going to just take him and just show him how it's done. And I was like, that is a beautiful gift to give this child. And for whatever reason, it wasn't a skill or a gift that he had been given prior to moving away. And I think we see that a lot.

There's so much helicopter parenting where parents want to primarily be their kids' best friend as opposed to a parent. And that is this transition of these skills are not happening always. So that is something that we can definitely start doing much, much sooner and definitely not wait till senior year. But should you wake up in, you know, after Christmas, a senior year of high school and realize, huh, my kid does not know how to cook, does not know how to balance a checkbook, does not know how to do laundry, and then, lucky for you, you have about six, eight months to get that ready before they move out. Yeah. I mean, a lot of helicopter parenting and stuff that goes on, it really disables

the ability for children to do stuff. You know, we see this with the Gen Z entering the working world. And one of their big problems is, you know, they're so used to their parents. I mean, I joke wiping their own butt, you know, that they don't know how to do it themselves. They don't know how to deal with failure. They don't know how to deal with rejection. They don't know how to deal with life. You know, you always hear them running around. I'm not saying all Gen Zers, but you'll hear them usually running around going, life is

in fear. And you just want to slap the shit out of them because life isn't fair. Yeah, and I think that. So this is so unfair in a sense because we get frustrated because the children aren't at a place where we would want them, or these young adults, but they didn't raise themselves. So it goes back to if they haven't been taught, how are they supposed to know? So how do we, again, as parents, if we want to successfully launch our birds, what is it that we are transferring?

What skills are we teaching them so they can do it? And going back to your point earlier about taming our worries, a big worry is that we want to continuously remove all these obstacles for our children because we don't want them to suffer. And that is actually not serving them nor is it serving us. So we have to deal with our own worry again, manage our own anxieties as parents and teach our kids and really allow them to make their live their lives mistakes and all. I think some, I think some parents, I don't know, do it as a, it's almost a way of sabotage.

Like I know parents that their children are their best friends and their kids are living with them and they're still supporting them, you know, up until they're like 30 now. It's almost, it's kind of sad because the only friends they have are their children. They don't socialize with other people. They don't have a healthy relationship outside of their family. And their kids, their kids don't know any better. The kids are like, mommy says I can stay at home or daddy says daddy's my best friend and I play video games with them.

I'm his friend and I've seen them co-signing for all the loans and supporting the kids and basically making it so the kids never have to leave the house. There's kind of a joke about Boomer parents and Gen X parents, I think Boomer parents more so, they made it miserable at home. So you wanted to leave the house. You were like, from 10, you were like, I want to get the hell out of this place. This is a madhouse. And I think they did it on purpose because they were just like, you know, if you want, oh, you don't like it here? You can move out. Kirsten Khirena Yeah. And there was no expectation. The expectation has really shifted what is parenting and for how long. And I think the point you made earlier about how do we not put our lives onto our children.

Our children's jobs are not to soothe us or to be available to us. It is our job as parents to, much like we tell our kids, there's a big world out there for you. Go explore, go live it. We have to do that same thing. We have to model that behavior. I have a client of mine, she was really worried about this and it turned out that her kid was worried about moving away to college because who was going to take care of his mom. And I was like, wow, you raised a very empathetic, conscientious child, and that is not your

child's job, is not to take care of you emotionally in this way. So we worked through all of that, and now she comes out and she says, you know what? I get to be this other person, and I get to show my kid that I am living my best life much like I want for him. So it shifted their entire relationship from him feeling really burdened by this mom who put all her emotional stuff on to him, to him saying, okay, there's space for me. I am allowed to stretch my wings and live my life because I can rely on my mom is doing that for her.

Pete I imagine it might be harder to have your kid move out if you're a single mom. You don't have a partner or vice versa, I suppose, a single dad. It might be harder for them to move out because you technically don't have anybody hanging around once they move out. You know, at least if you're married, you've got somebody to hang out with. And imagine that can be a whole new sort of thing. You've got freedom of time to date or do whatever you want or travel or pursue your hobbies. But you know, you're kind of alone.

And maybe some people have a fear of that. They're afraid to be alone with themselves for the first time in 20 years. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you see both end, right? You see the moms that have been at kind of an enmeshed relationship with their children. And that again, has been so much of their identity and that's how they feel needed

and that's how they feel valued. And they're like, oh, you can't leave. What is my life gonna look like and feel like? And then you have the ones that have're like, oh, you can't leave. What is my life going to look like and feel like? And then you have the ones that have been like, whoo, you know, I can finally throw up my feet on the couch when I come home from work and not to do all of these other things. And there is now the time and the space for me to pursue my interest and have impact in the world and contribute in ways that wasn't available.

And with most things, it's not either or, it's usually a both and, right? You can feel that tremendous sense of loss and figuring out how am I not going to feel lonely in this? Because again, we're probably looking at three, four decades. Three, four decades you got to spend with yourself alone, right? Yeah. Or not alone, right? You might be alone in the beginning and then you find your community. And I think a place that I see here is really where female friendships come in to play and the importance of them. And we see study after study that show that men live longer, happier and healthier when they're married, and women, the happier and healthier relationships and how they take care of themselves often come

from female friendships. We need our communities, we need our friends, and when you go through this with the generations of moms, most of your friends might... You might have actually got to know most of your friends through your children. So they are all more or less leaving at the same time, which then frees up this space to do things together with your female friends. And I cannot underscore the importance

of female friends for women. That is the super, super yummy. And then if you want to try to, you know, repartner and go out in the romantic world, go for it. Don't limit your life. To make this plan, what's going to feel yummy and juicy for you for the next three, four decades is definitely going to have to be bigger than I'm going to pick up, you know, start playing pickleball, right? It has to be bigger than that because there's so much more life to live. Pete Slauson Oh, yeah, totally.

So, tell us about the services you offer on your website, how you help women with community, how you help women with workshops and support, etc., etc. Dr. Maria Paz-Gonzalez Yeah, I work with women one-on-one and to, especially if you're really stuck in one of these places or you want to create a thorough plan that's going to be very tailored to your needs and your family's needs. I also do a community group that I called the Launching Squad where we do come together in community. I host a bunch of different workshops, you know, sometimes online, sometimes in person, And I'm sharing this, spreading this message because I really want women to rethink and reframe. You're not supposed to do this on

your own. This is we're social human beings, we need a community. You will be better off when you go and you follow a framework and you have a plan and start that plan early. I'm not going to say it's going to be too late if you wait until the kids have left, but certain things are just easier to deal with when you're in the same house. You can all find me at birdylonsure.com and birdy with a Y. Pretty much anybody who's out there who's got the potential. How many years before, let's say the potential, how many years before, let's say the kids, I don't know, whether they normally graduate high school at 18,

they're going to college, maybe about 18, 20, how many years ahead do you recommend that people start this process of birdie launching? Yeah, I would say start shifting your parenting and going from less hands-on managing everything and letting go. Let them do their laundry. Let them cook a meal at once a week. That can be done much, much sooner, already in their tween years. But really, start planning for this major life transition to feel more confident and

competent to be able to do it more ease and grace and moving away from the overwhelm and the loss and just the fear and the worry. I would strongly recommend starting junior year. So you have a couple of years when you're still under the same roof, you already might get used to them having more freedom and independence by getting a driving license and maybe they take themselves to carpools or maybe you do a big, they go off the summer between junior and senior year and you get to just feel like, what does it feel like to not have them home all the time? So that is, that's the plan. And then if you haven't gotten there yet, you know, some moms come to me once their kids have launched already and they sit and they do what I did the other day. I walked into my oldest child's room and I just sat on his bed and I both

marveled over how freaking clean his room is but it's because he doesn't live there and then sat also and just missed him terribly. And he's a third year student, like college students, he's been gone for two and a half years and I just like miss him and Marvel at the cleanliness of his room. So moms come to me also when they have, okay, I've been so busy, I prioritize

the college applications and the graduation and moving them in. And now I drove home or came home and it's been a week and now I'm feeling it viscerally. So they come to me then. Some mamas come to me, they have launched their kid and maybe this child is not seeing college through or maybe they even see it through and then they come back. And they said, whoa, here I'm sitting with a boomerang. Now what do I do?

A boomerang kid, right? You slipped it out and now it came back and how are we negotiating our relationship and how do I help my kid not getting stuck so they don't end up living in the mama's garage with a train set till they're 60? What is that going to look and feel like? So that entire range, so from junior year all the way through, mamas come and we do it in community and we start evolving our parenting and shifting and setting boundaries and expectations.

Okay, you're moving back home. What does that look like? Are you going to pay? Are you going to have a job? Are you going to contribute? Do you have chores? Like again, we're parent-child, but are we roommates? What are those expectations and how do we make that explicit and talk about it so we

can shift to make happier, healthier relationships? Because ultimately, that's the yummy part. Pete This is for a service called the fake your death when they move out service so they can't find you to move back in. And basically, you fake your death and then you move to the opposite end of the country, change your name, your addresses and stuff. Then you just go live your life.

You travel, you have fun, you know, you got those kids out of your hair and, you know, they can't find you to complain or move back in. And it just works out well. I'm sure that's a fantastic solution for many. And for me, like I really enjoy being close with my kid, right? I want my kids, they're not ready to be parents. I am not ready to be a grandma for many years, but having that relationship and watching them flourish

and grow and stretch their wings and becoming themselves is such a gratifying, amazing part of the parenting, all these years of the parenting that you put in. And again, I just wanna reassure mamas out there, college does not parent. You will still be needed, but you might be more of a lighthouse than a hands-on making dental appointments and picking up dirty socks off the floor. Pete Slauson You got to learn to do all that on your own. You have to grow up sometime.

Dr. Mirjana Svoboda Yes, for sure. We want that. Pete Slauson So, give a final pitch out to people. Tell them how they can onboard with you, how they can reach out and find out more, dot coms, etc., etc. Sara Yeah, first I want to just offer, I have a freebie for your audience and it really comes down to that about evolving your parenting. So if you go to birdie launcher, birdie with a Y, birdie launcher dot com forward slash free offer, there's a free guide for you about evolving your parenting and really start thinking about it because that's a fantastic place to start.

And otherwise, find me at birdylonsure.com and set up a time for a connection call and I will guide you and help you as you spread your wings as your little ones leave the nest. Thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, Hannah. Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. Thank you and thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Go to GoodReese.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Forchess, Chris Foss. Chris Foss won the TikTok and all those crazy plays on the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should have us out.