The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Revolutionizing Healthcare: CrowdHealth’s Alternative to Traditional Insurance

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Revolutionizing Healthcare: CrowdHealth's Alternative to Traditional Insurance Joincrowdhealth.com About the Guest(s): Andy Schoonover, an innovative entrepreneur and former executive, has made significant strides in redefining the healthcare landscape. With a BS in Commerce from the University of Virginia, Andy gained extensive experience at Host Marriott Corporation, managing over $1.5 billion in transactions. His entrepreneurial journey flourished at Stanford Business School, leading to the co-founding of Blue Canyon Capital, where he achieved a tenfold return on acquisition. As the founder of CrowdHealth, Andy is committed to making healthcare accessible to everyone. CrowdHealth empowers individuals to navigate medical expenses more efficiently, save significantly on healthcare costs, and access superior care. Episode Summary: In this engaging episode of The Chris Voss Show, Chris Voss sits down with Andy Schoonover, the founder of CrowdHealth, to explore his groundbreaking approach to transforming the healthcare system. Andy shares his journey from managing substantial transactions at Marriott to co-founding Blue Canyon Capital and, ultimately, establishing CrowdHealth. He discusses his company's innovative business model, which aims to eliminate traditional health insurance, allowing individuals to pay doctors directly and avoid bureaucratic obstacles. The conversation dives deep into the mechanisms of CrowdHealth, emphasizing how it empowers its community members by reducing healthcare costs through direct payment and negotiation of medical bills. This alternative model retains transparency by letting members see where their contributions are going and fosters a supportive community that shares the financial burden of medical expenses. With over 10,000 participants actively engaging in funding each other's healthcare needs, CrowdHealth has successfully created an enticing alternative to the complex and often frustrating world of health insurance. Key Takeaways: Breaking the Health Insurance Model: CrowdHealth provides an alternative by allowing direct payments to doctors, bypassing middlemen and reducing costs. Community Funding: Members contribute $55 monthly and are occasionally asked to donate up to an additional $140 to help others in the community with significant medical expenses. Cost Savings: On average, members save 40-50% compared to traditional health insurance, demonstrating the financial efficacy of this model. No Network Restrictions: Members have the freedom to choose any healthcare provider, facilitating access to alternative and traditional medical care alike. Incentives for Healthy Living: CrowdHealth offers discounts to those maintaining healthy lifestyles, similar to premium reductions for safe drivers in car insurance policies. Notable Quotes: "We're trying to ditch health insurance. We're trying to give people a real alternative to health insurance." – Andy "When you get your care and then don't worry about the price later until you get something in the mail. And you hope the health insurance plan is gonna pay for it." – Andy "200,000 families last year went bankrupt due to a medical expense, even though they had health insurance." – Andy "If you have the buyer of a service and the seller of the same service both wanting the price to go up… the price is gonna go up." – Andy "We can find you a really good [doctor] at a really reasonable price." – Andy

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster

with your brain. Now here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, it's Voss here from the Chris Voss Show.com. Welcome home. Ladies and gentlemen, they are the latest things that makes official. Welcome to 16 years of the Chris Voss show with over 24 on an episode, CEOs, billionaires, White House President, Surveys, Pulitzer Prize winners, governors, congressmen, you name

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entrepreneur and former executive who has redefined the healthcare landscape. With a BS in commerce from the University of Virginia, and extensive experience at Host Marriott Corporation, where he managed over $1.5 billion in transactions, he has a deep understanding for business dynamics. His entrepreneurial spirit ignited at Stanford Business School, leading to the co-founding of Blue Canyon Capital, where he achieved significant growth and investment success with a 10 times return on acquisition. And now Andy is dedicated to making healthcare accessible for everyone as the founder of Crowd

Health. Crowd Health helps individuals navigate the complexities of medical expenses, save thousands on healthcare costs, and get access to better care. His approach is about empowering the people, making them a sought after voice in the intersection of business and health care innovation. Welcome to the show. Andy, how are you? You're great. Thanks so much for having me.

Appreciate it. Thanks for coming. We really appreciate it. Give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs? Join crowd health.com and join crowd health on all our socials. So give us some 30,000 over you. What you do there. Yeah, we're trying to ditch health insurance.

We're trying to give people a real alternative to health insurance. Nobody likes health insurance. There's a poll that came out, I think three years ago, those, the most hated industries in the world and And number one was government. And number two is health insurance. And so I don't think anybody really likes their health insurance. So we're trying to trying to give people a real alternative to to having health insurance. And it kind of stems back from the last time I had health insurance.

I was I sold my previous company and I didn't have health insurance anymore. So I had to go into the health care marketplace and get one of those Obamacare care plans and it was 11 or 1200 bucks for me, my wife, my two girls. And I kind of choke it. It worked until I had to use it. My little one was having recurring ear infections. And so we went to the ear, nose and throat doctor who told us that she had a hole in her eardrum, so we had to go get that fixed. It was a 15 minute procedure.

I got the bill and it was $8,000 for 15 minutes. It was like, holy crap, $8,000 for 15 minutes. And little did I know that the insurance plan was going to come back a few weeks after that and say, you know what, this is not medically necessary. So we're not going to pay for that procedure. So I had a stroke and $8,000 check to the local hospital and I was pissed. And I quit health insurance and I've never gone back. I've built a company to allow people to live viably uninsured, which is

counter-cultural, but it's working really, really well. So how, how do you make that possible? How have you changed the model of what the current insurance model is for health insurance? Yeah, I'm sure you see on, you know, X or Instagram or whatever, all these crazy stories about people getting just huge bills from their, you know, hospital or doctor or whatever it may be. And in fact, those huge bills are because insurance is in the way.

Insurance is paying for it. Everything else in life you and I buy, we know what the price is. We go and buy a car. We know exactly what it is. We know exactly how much we're going to pay. And health and healthcare is the exact opposite, which is we go and get our care and then don't worry about the price later until we get something in the mail and you hope the health insurance plan is going to pay for it.

What we've done is taken health insurance out between you and your doctor. So you pay your doctor directly. So you know what the cost of care is. And as a result of that, you're pulling out all the administrative, all the bureaucracy, all that middlemen, all the middlemen in that process. And as a result, the doctor is able to give you 40 or 50% better prices than if you were to pay for it through healthcare. Our members are getting 50% better pricing than UnitedHealthcare, the seventh largest company

on the planet, which is, you know, doesn't seem to make intuitive sense. But if you think about all the administration that these health insurance plans make the doctors go through, you can then understand why doctors are giving a steep discount to people who will pay them directly. I've dated people that have worked in the billing departments for doctors and the nightmarish like their whole job is just to try and get the insurance companies to pay services. And they have a backlog that is just insane.

And they're constantly, you know, there's a lot of doctors we have on the show that quit the business and because of, you know, what a nightmare it was to deal with the insurance company was a nightmare. Absolutely. And we wonder why these doctors are just trying to churn as many patients through as they can. They're kind of like, attorneys have the same problem. They have a balance sheet where they're usually owed way more money than they'll ever receive.

If you've got a guy, you're representing jail and, and he's the advocate, you know, you're getting, yeah, it's, I can see the benefit of that because you're just a hand of cash or whatever. So is it, is it a pooling sort of business model where it's, it's pooling the funds of the payments that are going to the people inside or do they pay a monthly fee? How does that work? Yeah, it's a great question. Yeah, we have, we have 10,000 people in the community, over 10,000, um, who are

funding each other's bills. And so what happens is to be a part of the community, you pay us 55 bucks a month. Wow. And then once a month, we will ask you for an additional $140 to give to somebody else directly in the community if they have a big problem. So you'll get an email, it'll say, hey, Chris broke his arm and it's $5,000. Chris is going to pay the first $500 of that. Then we're going to ask 45 people to give Chris $100.

And if they say yes, then $100 goes from their bank account to your bank account. At the end of the day, you're gonna have $4,500 from the community, $500 that you pitch in to help. We asked everybody to pitch in the first 500. So you have $5,000 where you can now go and pay the doctor directly. And we've done this now for 20,000 bills

over the last four years. And 99.9% of them have gotten fully funded that way. Everything from little pediatric visits to, you know, we've had two or three dozen cancer cases now. We've had, you know, crazy stories. We had a guy in Montana who was fishing in bear country. So he had a 44 in his holster. He caught a fish, he leaned down, the gun fell out of his holster and hit the rock. It went off. It went into his calf, out the

back of his calf, into his thigh, out the top of his thigh, into his chest and out the back. He had medevac'd, you know, a helicopter had to pick him up out of the middle of a stream, medevac'd to a local hospital, which was two hours away, went into a coma, had sepsis, thought he was going to die. And that's a nearly million dollar bill. And that was negotiated by us. So we will actually negotiate those bills for you. We sent those to the community. At the end of the day, that ended up being somewhere between a 200 and $250,000 bill after we negotiated it. And the community fully funded that. And, you know, he's on his way to recovery.

Wow. That's one of the bigger examples of things that the community has funded. So it works really, really well. Chris, you know, the other thing, real thing I would say is cool is, you know, your money is going directly to another person. My money is going directly to Michael who shot himself,

as opposed to going to, you know, big mega-corp United healthcare or blue cross blue shield. And so I know where my money is going every month, which feels great. I don't, I don't love sending money to United or Cigna or Aetna, but I'm more than happy to send something to, you know, Michael or, you know, any of these people who, you know, have an injury or a pregnancy or whatever it may be. So it's a really cool, cool, different model. So can, can the bills go beyond the 140 a month of the additional ask roughly?

I mean, can it really soar if things can add to control? Um, yeah. So we have a model it's, it's actually up to 140. This month we only asked people for the 85 of the 140. So if you are a member of the community this month and you're an individual, we'd ask you for 85 to 90 bucks. And so that allows us then to, to, if we have a bunch of really big bills come in, then we, that allows us to scale up to that 140, you know, it would, but it will never go above 140. That's the max we ask. Okay. We've only asked that three times in

the last four years. And so it does not happen very often, but does allow us to scale up and scale down depending upon the amount of bills in the community. So we just think that's a much better way than holding a big pile of money in the backend and a pooling structure. And so this just works kind of on the finance side, much, much better. Pete Slauson We've had, I believe, authors on the show that have written about the insurance and I think a number of people. One of the things we've been told by them, these are people that are journalists that

study the system, is one of the problems they're having now in insurance. And I believe this is, oh, this is a, I believe it was from a young lady who she worked as a healthcare rep for I think 20, 30 years or something along those lines. And she, for 10 years, she was, I believe it was 10 years, she was a, she was undercover for the justice department. She turned to the evidence and you know, this is when all the weird stuff is going on with, with, uh, you know, all the, all the medications and, and, and of course the, uh, some of the drugs were, weren't what they said they were applied, applied how they were supposed to be applied.

And so she said literally, if I recall rightly, basically the, uh, the way lawyers are writing insurance, health insurance contracts now, was they there writing them to build in any sort of back-end default their reason to deny the thing they could like the whole contracts now are built for applying plausible deniability essentially where they just be like yeah hey you yeah you tripped over the curb is stepped on a crack broke your mom's back when you were 12 and now we want to show you you know some sort of weird anomaly of fractions. One of the, the crazy things that I realized after my bill got declined is that

about 20% of, of healthcare bills are declined. So you have a one in five chance of your bill getting declined, you know, and not a lot of people have $8,000 sitting around for, you know, a pretty benign situation with my daughter. And it did cure her by the way. So it was medically necessary. And, and, you know, 200,000 families last year went bankrupt due to a medical expense, even though they had health insurance. So the whole point of health insurance is to keep you or any insurance is to keep

you from going into financial distress. And so clearly that's not working. You know, we've got 10,000 members and I'm proud to say, nobody has gone into bankruptcy as a result of being a member of crowd health and having a medical expense. We're proud of that. And we think that this model could, you know, replace our existing model, which I think everybody knows is totally busted. Yeah. And some of the notes that they got, they sent me in 2013, 17 to 18% of Obamacare claims were denied. Holy crap. That's right.

Yeah. It's just astounding to me, you know, the way they can deny these things. I think there's some movies I've seen that talk about our healthcare issues, the documentaries and you know, the, them denying claims on cancer patients and things like this. I mean, there really is no moral sort of ethical sort of caring about other human beings. It's just, it's just pretty much, it's pretty much money. It's money and Wall Street sort of things.

And I think you see some of that blowback with that young man who ended up shooting, unfortunately, the health insurance agency, not the way to solve your problems. Yeah. The CEO of UnitedHealthcare. People don't understand that how health insurance works. You know, in essence, what happens here is that, you know, you pay them a premium. So let's just say it's a thousand dollars a month, you know, and they, they can max out what their profit is, which is 15%

of that. So $150, which means that they have to use 85%, $850 for medical expenses and $150 for profit. So if they get into 86 or 87 or 88% of your premium being used for medical expenses, so then what do they want to do? They want to cut that back to maximize their profit. So they, in essence, they have an incentive to deny bills. And there's a lawsuit going on right now where, you know, most of these big procedures, doctors have to get pre-approval, pre-authorization from the health insurance plans. And so what the lawsuit is basically saying is that these health insurance

plans dial up the difficulty of getting these, these surgeries authorized when they start hitting that 85% threshold so that they can maximize their, their profit. So that's one problem. The other problem is that, you know, if, if you've got a maximum of $150 a profit, then how do you increase your profit? How do you get your profit to go from 150 and increase 10% to 165? What has to happen is your premium has to go from a thousand dollars to eleven hundred dollars So they actually have an incentive to see your premium go up

Over over time the insurance company does so you've got the the buyer of health care, which is the end of these insurance companies They want the price to go up and the sellers of healthcare, which are the hospital systems, they want the price to go up. And so if you have the buyer of a service and the seller of the same service, both wanting the price to go up, you don't need a PhD in economics to figure out what's going to happen, the price is going to go up. And so we have no counter forces that are pushing these prices down because it's a B2B transaction between two businesses that both want the price to rise.

So that's the screwiness with our system right now, unfortunately. Yeah, it's insane. I mean, the prices and stuff. And so much of healthcare isn't catastrophic. And if you do preventative healthcare, then you have less catastrophes. And we don't do any of that. With crowd health, what area does this serve? Is it nationwide, every state? Is there only certain states it's applicable to? Kyle Smedley Yeah, we're in every state, Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico. I think we even have somebody in Guam. So if you're in the United States,

or actually, even if you're not in the United States and you can get a US bank account, because the transfer of monies happens on bank accounts, the bank does that. So yeah, all you have to do is just be able to get a US bank account and you can do this. There's only a couple of kind of stipulations. You know, you can't be over 260, 260 pounds.

You can't be a smoker. And you can't, and unfortunately, currently, we can't be a smoker. And you can't, and unfortunately, currently we can't, we can't do anybody on Medicare. So over, if you're over 65, just for regulatory reasons, we're trying to figure that out. But those are the only three kind of parameters that we, we have. And in essence, what we're trying to do is incentivize people to be really healthy and taking care of themselves. And, you know, obesity is the number one cause of chronic conditions. And so we're trying to incentivize people to get in shape and, you know, thrive while they're in their 70s, 80s and 90s. Because what you do in your 40s, 50s and 60s dictates

what happens in your 70s, 80s and 90s, unfortunately. So we're trying to incentivize people to pay attention to their health. And in fact, we give people up to a 20% discount if they can show us that their, you know, visceral fat or their fast insulin levels are, you know, really, really good. So we give people discounts if they are of good health. And I think it's not too different than your car insurance. You know, if you have a car and you're a great driver, what do you get? You get better rates than the really bad drivers. I think that should be in healthcare too. Unfortunately, it's illegal with health insurance, but because we're not health insurance, we can do some of

those things. So, it does create a community of people who really do take care of themselves, and that's the type of community I want to be funding. Pete Slauson Yeah. Yeah, we should all eat better and live better. I think we all think we're going to stay young forever. What happened years ago with our company, we bought a big policy for our thing and they came, the insurance company came to us and it was really morally legal or unethical. I guess I shouldn't say it's illegal if I don't really know the law on it, but that particulars, but they came to us and they're like, we're going to, you know, okay, here's, here's your price for, for your health insurance policies, but you have two employees out of a hundred. The, they consume a lot of health insurance.

And ironically, those two were my best employees. They were the people who work late, work hardest. They, they were my best employees. They were the people who work late, work hardest. They, they were my best employees. Like most of my employees were at five o'clock, man. They were in that sprinter's motion, the sprinter stance to the door. You know, these folks, you know, I'd have to

go by, Hey, why don't you go home with your family, man? It's going to be fine. Just come back tomorrow. And they came to me and they said, these two people are going to raise your premiums for everybody in the company, almost $50. That's what they told me. And, you know, I don't know, they were hustling. They actually asked me to fire those two people because they want them on the policy. They actually asked me that. Yeah. And I was like, I was just aghast.

I was like, excuse me? And, you know, ironically there are my two best boys. So I'm not getting around. And I wasn't going to do it anyway. I only, if they'd just been normal boys, I wouldn't care. I'm not going to fire people because they're going to increase the thing. And they're like, you could save the rest of everybody else a lot of money. So what happens if you have somebody in the system like that, that maybe they just start eating all the requests and funds. Yeah.

I mean, I think we, we, we do have some people in the community currently that a lot of the funds, um, you know, we've got a stage four melanoma cancer right now, where, you know, the guy's going through a brutal set of, of treatments to try to, to beat this try to beat this disease. And it's a significant ask from the community every single month, and the community has been able to pay it. And still, we're only, like I said, asking 85 of the $140 this month. So we're not even close to being maxed out on that, even with a really complex situation.

You know, we have 10,000 people in the community now. So I don't know, I forget how many people were in your company and get to it. A hundred, you know, if you get to a size where, you know, one, two, even 30 or 40 people who are having significant, you know, massive life changing health events doesn't impact the community all that much or doesn't impact the ask from the community. So we've gotten to a size now where, you know, our biggest ones are cancer and NICU babies. You know, we've got babies who have been in the NICU for, you know, months at a time because of some kind of birth issue. And those bills can be, you know, millions of dollars. And, you know, the key component here, though, is

we take a very hard approach of negotiating those bills because what we have found is that about 80% of the bills that we get from these hospitals have errors in them. And so people don't understand that when you get these bills, most of them have errors. They're either providing you with things that, they said they provided you with stuff that they didn't actually provide you, or they're billing codes that aren't just aren't the right codes

for what they what they provided you. And so we've got groups of people on the back end who are looking at these bills and helping us with, you know, figuring them out. I'll give you one quick example. Unfortunately, it was in the hospital about a year and a half ago, it ended up being a nothing burger. But I had an occupational therapist and a physical therapist come in and a half ago, it ended up being a nothing burger. But I had an occupational therapist and a physical therapist come in and say,

hey, I have to make sure you're okay to go home. They were both with me for 10 minutes. They watched me put on my shoes, brush my teeth and walk down the hall. And they charged me eight 15 minute visits for that one 10 minute visit. And each one of them were between four and 500 bucks. So that one little visit, you know,

chart cost me somewhere between three and four thousand dollars. And so when our people saw that, they're like, did they really see you eight times? And I was like, no, they saw me once for 10 minutes. And so in that case, we can go back to the hospital and say, hey, you build this building has an error in it. And so we can case, we can go back to the hospital and say, Hey, you, you build this building has an error in it. And so we can get those errors removed from your, from your bill so that we can get those, those bills down pretty substantially. So this is the usual.

This is not the, this is the norm. This is not the exception. I mean, this happens almost every bill that we see. Well, and then you guys are, you guys are probably doing some pre-negotiation, right? If I know I got to go in for a surgery, you guys maybe do the pre-negotiation with the doctor say, Hey, we're going to do this and you're going to get your money as opposed to, you know, waiting, hoping you get it from the insurance company. Cash on cash in hand is on the barrel.

There is the, is the best way to go. Yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll get these things funded before you have your surgery. So we had a member who tore her ACL playing pickleball of all things. And she went to the ER, the hospital system tried to get their hospital system, orthopedic surgeon to do the, to do the surgery, which they could schedule like three weeks later or something like that. And it was $24,000.

She's she called us and she was, Hey, you know, I have this thing scheduled for in three weeks and it's 24 grand. And we said, Hey, can we take a look and see who else, you know, is in town? I live in Austin and we have a guy in town who's an orthopedic surgeon who will take cash who does a lot of the joint surgeries for the university of Texas athletics program. So he's really, really good. And he was willing to do it for $11,000 if he got paid at the time of Texas athletics program. So he's really, really good. And he was willing to do it for $11,000 if he got paid at the time of surgery.

So we went out to the community, we funded that $11,000. She had $11,000 when she showed up, she paid the doctor, the doctor did the surgery, everything went great. And it was more than 50% less than what the hospital was trying to charge her after going into the ER. So we've got these types of doctors all over the country who are willing, they're independent. They're not a part of these big hospital systems and they're typically better than

hospital system doctors from our perspective. And, and a lot less expensive. We were pretty active in finding doctors, you know, for those, those types of surgeries, and we can find you a really good one at a really reasonable price. Getting into the system, you mentioned, you know, you've got to have a, I think, 265 pounds, I think you said. 260. 260. And in some other aspects, does your historical history of health insurance

usage, health issues, also part of the application process where you maybe look at it and go, you know, you, you have too much going on here, maybe. How does it, does that, is that, is that an application? We don't look at it. We don't look at your past history at all. When you, like I said, you can apply, you can accept that. The only thing we ask is, look, you can't jump in and have a knee surgery and then jump out. That's just not being a part of the community.

So we truly ask you to be a part of the community before you do that type of stuff. Because we did have some problems early on where people would be like, hey, I'm going to join, I'm going to get my bill funded and then I'm going to leave. Because we don't really have any open enrollments. So you can join whenever you want So you can join whenever you want. You can leave whenever you want. And so people were gaming that system. So we had to, you know, put some rules in place that you don't game the system, but

we don't, we don't decline anybody from joining based upon their medical history. Wow. What about height? I actually shopped some private insurance one time because they were bugging me and I was like, okay, if you can really beat Obamacare, I don't know. Let's see what you got. And the issue was my height being 6'2". Really?

Yeah, that was the biggest issue. My weight too, but it was the weight combined with the height. And they're like, yeah, your height's a real big issue with the insurance because taller people tend to die more. And I was like, what the hell? That seems ridiculous. I'm six two. So we let people six two in.

The only thing that we look at is weight is if you, if you are above two 60, but you're like six, seven, and you're like CrossFit jacked or something, then we make exceptions for that, but we don't, we don't look at really a height too much in terms of that. So I think that's kind of a silly, a silly rule that they, that they have put into place amongst many silly rules that health insurance has. Anything to charge more money. I don't know.

I guess I didn't, I guess everyone thinks there's a million guys six foot tall running around, but they don't. Oh, what have we discussed about crowd health that people should know about, how they can utilize it, et cetera, et cetera? Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know, there's no networks, so you can go to whatever doctor you want. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. And you know, if you're into kind of alternative medicine, like integrative medicine or naturopathic medicine or things like that, you can do that with crowd health as well. So that's a great part of the community.

There's also, you know, we've got, you know, a lot are actually number one thing that we fund are pregnancies. The number two thing we fund are active injuries. And you know, we got a lot of babies with CrowdHealth, a lot of people who are out active and getting hurt, they who utilize CrowdHealth to help them fund their bills. So it's a great community to be a part of. And again, you know, if anybody wants to join us, it's join crowd health.com. We'd love for you to join.

And so they can just go on there. They can apply and how long does it usually take to get an answer back on our reply on average? Five to 10 minutes. Wow. Yeah. It's from, from start to end. It takes five, five to 10 minutes.

Somebody told me the other day, it took them three minutes to get through it. It does not take long at all. If you've got, you know, a big family or something like that, then, you know, it might take a little bit longer just to enter all their data, but it's, it's no more than, than, you know, 10, 10 max, maybe 15 minutes. That's awesome. You know, we were, we're coming into cement to some interesting times when turmoil with the economy and recession and layoffs are off the chart. These tariffs, no one knows

where they can go. For those watching this YouTube five years from now, it's May of 2025. I believe this year is almost halfway over, but maybe that's for the best. I don't know. I, I, I, it seems like the older I get, the more I drag, like I'll be in November and I'll be like, I'm still in February. I don't know what you guys are doing, but I'm still in February and, but you just can't win, but this may become a need for those people. I know a lot of government employees that were laid off. They, I, they're, I think they're being thrown to the wolves when it

comes to their health insurance. I'm not sure. I guess they get Cobras or something like most people do. They probably get, they probably get Cobra. The problem with Cobra is it's just really, really expensive. Um, and so this is a really low cost alternative. You know, a family of four with us is about 650 bucks. Holy crap.

Yeah. And so it's, it's way's way way less expensive than you know Cobra or even some of the Obamacare stuff and we'd love for people to check it out probably great for entrepreneurs You know, we talked to a lot. Oh, yeah, like yourself on the show and you know We always have to do our own thing because we're our own thing Yeah, but no, it's always it's always tough like I I used to have a business partner years ago who he had a lot of, I guess, inheritable sort of health, blood pressure, high blood pressure, heart issues were pretty prevalent in his family.

And this was, God, this was the 90s, early 2000s. He'd gone to the hospital so much that he was having trouble getting insured for Obamacare. No one would insure him. They're like, you, you know, this hell of history of you love hospitals, basically. Not really. I'm just doing a joke, people, but yeah, it's crazy what's out there and how it works.

So give people your final pitch out. As we go out, tell them how they can onboard, reach out to you, find out more information, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. If you're, if you're tired of health insurance and just the, the scam that that is, you know, and want to be part of a parallel system that really is trying to, you know, burn down the existing system, we'd love for you to come and join us. You know, join crowd health.com. Like we just talked about five or 10 minutes to get signed up super easy and then go and Google, you know, crowd health

reviews and go take a look at what our actual members are saying. And I think you'll see that people are loving this and it's just way, way better than health insurance. So join crowd health.com come and come and join the crowd. Thank you very much for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks Chris. And thanks for tuning in. Go to good reads.com for chess, Chris Foss, linkedin.com for chess, Chris Foss, Chris Foss one on the tick tock and he, and all those crazy places in it.

Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. Yeah. Great for entrepreneurs.