The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Ron Feldman, President of World Business Services Inc.

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Ron Feldman, President of World Business Services Inc. Worldbusinessservices.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Coming at you live. Coming at you live on the podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys being here. I think I just broke the mic. I'm probably going to have to fix the peaks on that. Welcome

to the Chris Foss Show. As always, we love and appreciate you. Chris Foss Show is the family that hugs you, that loves you, that tells you how wonderful you are or whatever you need to hear. But remember, we don't judge you. So we're the best kind of family there is. And remember that during Thanksgiving time when you're sitting there alone because your family won't accept you because they just don't like you. Because you're the black sheep of the family, you can still listen to the Chris Foss show. The family that loves you that doesn't judge you. Anyway, guys, the holiday season is coming up. We're reaching that time of year.

So those of you watching this, whatever, check that out. We just released yesterday our interview with the governor of Massachusetts. It was a fun interview. It was a really interesting guy. I highly recommend you check it out. And two days ago, the billionaire interview that we did with Ronald, his name escapes me, Rothstein. You can go look it up on the Chris Foss show,

but he wrote his book, How to Invest, and that was a very fun interview. We asked him in his text messages with Warren Buffett if Warren Buffett uses emojis, and you'll find out what we found out on the interview. Today, we have another brilliant, amazing CEO gentleman on the show. He is Ron Feldman, the president of World Business Services, and he's going to be on the show talking to us about what he does and how he does it. And he's lived an extraordinary life where he's zigged and zagged and learned a lot of things from them. That's kind of what we do through life. I've learned more in 54 years than I probably learned, I don't know, in my previous lifetime. Ron Feldman has been recognized

by Who's Who in California and Who's Who in Lodging. He has taught business services marketing at the undergraduate and MBA university levels. Ron has represented the United States in world championships of Tournament Bridge in 1982, 1986, and 1984. He founded Hotel Connections in 1984 and sold the company in 1994, which is the year he founded World Business Services, which has been able to create millions of dollars for nearly three decades in refunds and cost savings for clients without any out-of-pocket direct capital expenditures or debt service financing. What do you know? He's on the show with us live now. Ron, how are you, my friend? Terrific. Yourself?

Awesome, Sauce. It's good to have you. There's a lot of things. You were just saying about in your 54 years about, you know, learning and the unlucky learn from experience and the lucky learn from the experience of others. I love that saying. Is that your quote or is that a quote from someone?

I try not to have the several reruns. I stay away from Taco Bell. That keeps me away. You don't want them to steal any of it. There you go. So, Ron, give us your.com. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs and get to know you better?

We're lurking at worldbusinessservices.com. I like the lurking part. There you go. The only hard part is typing the three S's in the middle. Ah. You're on your way. You know, people do that with the Chris Voss show. Somebody wrote me the other day, and they go, oh, there's three S's in the middle.

There's the Voss, two S's, and then show. And they're like, there's three S's there. And I'm like, what? Is there like a limit to it? It's like Mississippi, man. You just got I's and S's. That's just the way it rolls. Absolutely. It is what it is, my friend. So let's talk a little bit about your history and background because some of that leads into what you're doing now with your company. Oh, right. Yeah. So I actually grew up in Los Angeles. And when I was

a kid, I was playing hide and go seep-seep in a library at Tar Pits before the L.A. County Art Museum was built. And then my first job was selling newspapers on the corner of Fairfax and 6th Street for two cents a coffee. And, you know, growing up in Los Angeles was really nice at the time. There wasn't just asphalt seas and dairy queens. And then when I graduated from high school, I went to Fairfax High School in West Los Angeles. I went up to Cal State Hayward University and did my undergraduate work there, my graduate work. And met my wife there. The first day, I walked into the dormitory and carried her bags to her room.

Awesome sauce. Wow. That's a great love story, man. How long have you guys been married now? We've been married 49 years and known each other for 54. And I belong to a club of men that are married to women that are too good for them. It's a very large club. Well, I'm sure she reminds you that on a daily basis. She's terrific. She has no enemies. Well, that's good because you don't want to be on that list. There you go. So you've done quite a few things in your life. Let's kind of touch on a few things.

One thing you did is you did write a book on bridge. And as we mentioned, you represented the U.S. in several different things. And I imagine a lot of what you learned there contributed to what you've been doing in business. No, it certainly did. I enjoyed playing bridge as just an avocation in college like everybody else. And when I had done my graduate work, I was out in, I was kind of moonlighting during the summers playing bridge professionally. But bridge in and of itself as a game is really important

because it's the only game that brings together people socially to interact with each other from eight to 80. And nowadays, I'm really, it's so important to not make your friends based solely on your age group. I think that we have got a great country. I've learned so much from the people that are older than I am, and also from my daughter, who's much younger than I am. And that's another point is being able to understand the age is totally irrelevant as to how you can help somebody and vice versa, how they can help you. And being able to bridge what's unique about it, you have to work with somebody just like in business and solve problems with them in real time. That's so important. And I also, when I was playing the World Championships in 82, I was making plays that I thought were just incomprehensible,

and I thought I was losing my eyesight. Indeed, I was. I closed my left eye, and then I looked at a clock, and I closed my right eye and did the same thing. And my right eye was much better than my left eye. Glaucoma is called the silent thing. And my ophthalmologists have been able to save my vision. And I just wanted to get that plug in there in case it helps just one of your listeners that might be experiencing

that problem today. Definitely. Glaucoma is a big deal. You don't want to get that, especially as we age. And so if you want to take care of your eyes for someone who has... There is restorative vision technology on the way. So if somebody thinks they're going to be blind for life, please hang on here because I know that it's coming. And I've talked to the people that are bringing it to market. Definitely, definitely. So let's get into how did that parlay, doing bridge and being really good at that, how did that parlay into your business?

No, that's a great segue. So it turned out when I was playing bridge professionally, I was asked by the American Contract Bridgeway to form an organization of professional bridge players, and it formed the Association of Professional Bridge Players that was accredited by them. I had Bill Leonard, who was president of CBS News, who was an avid bridge player, my board of directors.

We put on a corporate-sponsored tournament in 1982 at Dunphy Hotels. The only problem was I got hit by the biggest fire in Minneapolis history on Thanksgiving Day. I went back to my room, and my window was melting. Oh, wow. We had to get everybody over to the North Star Hotel that they also own. Oh, wow. told the right to start a company to emulate what I was doing with rich players and moving people like American Bar Association, IBM, to different venues in the country. And then I was sponsored in American Hotel and Motel Association and then befriended CityCourt.

And from that point, I was able to partner with them in helping them develop their global multi-party settlement system and became fluent in technology, partnered with some rich players who are product managers who rock while he was in Collins Radio. And we invented a teleportal, which was a telephone for the deaf that would allow deaf people to communicate with non-deaf and get them off telepathic machines. Because we were kids of the 60s, loved to dance and to strobe lights. And when the phone rang, the strobe light would go off, which would allow deaf people to communicate with non-deaf and get them off tele-type machines. That's a big problem.

I built South six months later. I said, wait a minute. These guys can trade stocks over the phone lights. So they said, too bad, so bad. When I got my business acumen during that time from a guy named Roger Free, who developed the high speed motor market for Rockwell from 0 to 80 mil. And from that experience, I was able to segue into founding World Business Services with the idea that I can help businesses find all these one of a kind program that would help them either get refunds or cost savings. There you go. There you

go. You know, the last time I stayed at a hotel with a melting window was at the Motel 6 in Chernobyl. Make your bad luck. That's usually bad luck. I still glow from that, though. I was going to say. No, what you do is terrific, by the way. No, no, no. All kidding aside, you're right.

You're a sandbag. Well, you know, we try. But, you know, women I date will say to me, you know, you have this beautiful glow and I'm like, it's the radiation. So you founded your latest company, World Business Services in 1994. You, geez, you're almost 30 years old. Oh, thank you. Well, ages like time. There's just a lot of, you know, I'd get up, I'd get up by choice at three 30 in the morning. I take my first walk of the day. I have a light.

I bet this doesn't run me. I run my business, but I'm able because I get up so early to keep East coast hours. So I can work with people on the East coast, Midwest. And then I break for lunch about one o'clock. And then when my wife comes home from teaching, because besides in the books for our company, my wife, Linda, just loves to teach, you know, primary school grade kids. And what she does with teaching is 100 times more important than anything I do in business. But then when she comes home, we walk. We have a wetlands here in town in Petaluma, California, and we get our time together.

And so you can run a business, and success is measured not by how much money you have. The metrics we have of saying money is the most important thing of life is crazy. Time is the most important, but time is the money of life. Yeah, it really is. I mean, that is an the somebody of life. Yeah, it really is. I mean, that, that is incredible lesson to, to learn. You know, I, I, I, when I was young, I was focused on the goal of life. I was like, there was the destination, like gotta make a million dollars. You gotta get here. You gotta get there. And I didn't realize until learning the hard way that it's all about the journey.

You know, it's about, like you say, the the time the lessons i learned across the way you know seeing the ride outside the car as opposed to just trying to get the goal because sometimes you don't get to the goal but sometimes the lessons you learn in life watching the ride go by you you you learn things that will actually get you to bigger goals i guess and you know it, you know, people used to say to me, it's not about the destination, Chris, it's about the journey. And I'm like, I'm going to punch you in the face. They just make me really angry because I'm kind of an alpha type. And I'd be like, shut up.

It's bullshit. We're trying to get to the goal. The goal, the goal. And, you know, I sent a letter to my nephew and my niece when they graduated in high school. And I said, life is about collecting stories, you know, enjoy the ride, learn from the ride as it goes by. Cause it's going to go by quick. You're going to wake up, you're going to be 21 day and you're going to wake up and be 50 the next and enjoy the ride learn collect stories this

life you know this is where we read books this is why we do movies this is why we do the podcast you you collect stories and that's how we learn because no one gets an owner's manual on this gig last time i checked i don't know maybe you got one i didn't but you know so these are different ways you learn and so you've learned a lot you've incorporated that with your bridge playing and and some of the different things we did with Hotel Connections. Let's talk and get into what World Business Services does because people out there are probably going, how do I, you know, what does this company do? Maybe how can it help me? Right. So our client pay less tomorrow for the same services they do today without any direct capital expenditure

or debt service financing. And what I mean by that, as an example, is electricity for mid-sized companies and large companies is a perceived fixed cost, even in what are called red-nilated states. So, for example, where you are in Utah, Chris, and where I'm at in California, the utility tells the customer how much they're paying. And then unfortunately, the customer thinks, well, that's a big cost. I can't save any money on my utility bills on electricity. And that's actually incorrect. So there's two ways that the customer can actually say. And one way is one of the services that I provide and have provided for decades, which is doing utility audits. And all that is, is most utilities offer a number of different tariffs. The tariffs themselves are

incomprehensible and the customers never proactively offered those tariffs by the utility. So what I'll do is I'll go in and I'll identify better tariffs for the customer that will reduce their profits without them doing anything. And then all they're going to do is split that out with me going forward. And we have similar programs to that on what are called performance-based, shared benefit-based programs. So the other thing with electricity is we work with a company that delivers all types of energy efficiency products as a service. And what happened there is that on this hospital that we now in Southern California said half a million dollars is my utility audit. We've now brought the group in, the energy

efficiency group, and what they're going to do at their cost, because they have investors behind them that will put out for the equipment in terms of the design, the installation, the maintenance, and the equipment itself, which we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, they're going to put it into the hospital. The hospital is going to save over a million dollars in the next five years. It did nothing again. So that's just one example how does that sound that's that sounds awesome i mean in my businesses we used to call them i'm not sure if this is a term everyone else uses but we used to

call bleed outs what basically points where we were bleeding cash and there was waste you know and so it sounds like you're really good at identifying these bleed outs, waste that are on the balance sheet. And they don't, you know, it's not like you're going to be spending a whole much more ton of money to fix them. You just find where you're bleeding out and you patch those or Band-Aid or, you know, get those taken care of. And that used to be one of my biggest jobs as CEO was hunting for, you know, where we were wasting money, where we were bleeding out, where we could do cost reduction. Right. So let's talk about waste. So again, waste, waste, that's a percent, that's cost. However, most of the country are in what are called non-franchised waste and removal markets.

And so we work with one of the largest consolidators of waste in North America, and we're able to reduce the cost of any regional or national company, a minimum guaranteed net savings of 10% on their waste in the United States, all 50 states, Canada, and Puerto Rico. And again, when people get their waste bill, they just pay it. Or they're not going to pick up the garbage yeah yeah and you saved i think i heard in one of your reviews you saved mcdonald's a ton of money years ago right right so we we saved mcdonald's corporation over a million dollars over 20 years ago and that's in the area of tax credits. And tax credits seem to be myopically one, most people think they can't get tax credits. So quickly, we got McDonald's tax

credits based on the locations of some of their facilities, franchisees, and corporate that were in areas that were called enterprise zones. And also we can do a work opportunity tax credit. However, the problem with them are, for example, veterans are great. If you're hiring veterans or hiring people that have been in people that have come from low income categories, employers are rewarded for that, but they don't know how to get them because you have to file all the paperwork within 28 days. We've got a provider that does that. But nowadays, we've got refunds on payroll taxes, even for nonprofits who think,

well, wait a minute, I'm a nonprofit. How can I get a refund on my payroll taxes? Well, most nonprofits don't think about payroll taxes as a tax. And so they just miss out on that. And that's the any size company. And we can do that also in research and development tax credits where people think, well, wait a minute. That must be just for scientists and people creating new formulas. And it's not because the law has changed. We're getting a group of all this tens of thousands of dollars because of the new brews that they're creating. So anybody that's created or improved a product, we've just finalized the tens of thousands of dollars for a cosmetics company.

So again, they're coming out with the new cosmetics. That is just amazing. I have a friend I'm going to refer you to. She came out of drug rehab. She started an employee leasing company, an employee, what do you call it? Employee recruiting. Yeah, she's a PEO, a professional employment organization. And so what she's good at is she helps.

She takes people that come out of prison that are, you know, rehabbing their life, and she gets them jobs. And, of course, it's pretty awesome. But I'm going to put you in touch with her. And she, I don't know, she knows about the tax base thing or whatever, but you have, you specialize with businesses and organizations and identify cost savings without any direct out-of-pocket expenditure or debt service financing. You have 40 one-of-a-kind general ledger cost reduction programs? That's correct.

I'm sure there's probably too many to list here, but talk to us a little bit about that. Right. So let's take it in general terms, anything that has to do with telecommunications. Telecommunications, anything that has to do with technology, any general ledger expense, that might be what's state shipping. So a lot of mid-size and large companies doing $250,000 a year on their small parcel shipping is, that's again, another fixed cost. And shipping costs have really gone up because of the fuel costs of shipping. And we've got a provider that are former employees of the majors like FedEx and UPS.

And what they do is they not only reduce the clients cost of the FedEx and the UPS, but they create a new revenue stream for them. That's not obvious because of the way they do business. So things such as telecommunications as examples, two examples that will help your listeners. One is people are all now with COVID, they're saying, well, gee, we should all get these voiceover internet protocol phone systems, which are known as VoIP systems. And it's great because you can work remotely and you can be on the company, get through whether you're in working

in the corporate headquarters or working remotely. The problem is they don't tell businesses that you should keep some analog lines, particularly for your security alarm line, because all the insurance companies will have it that if you don't have an analog line, not all digital lines can go through to 911. And because if you have a fire, you're not protected on your insurance policy. Another thing is keeping your analog line in case your voice system goes down. Another backup you should have, though, and in addition to that, is you should probably have satellite as a backup, especially your mission critical.

All your police stations and fire stations should have that. That's not obvious. And so anything that's a telecommunications cost, a utility cost, general ledger cost, but also let me go into two other little quick things. And then I want to wrap this up on this question. What is payment solutions is critical right now. People are really getting code wink on Visa and MasterCard in the way that it's being sold. And so we're not only have programs that will help businesses

who are actually paying about another half a percent, those that are doing business-to-business transactions and business-to-government. But this year, we were able to get two regional retailers net refunds of over $300,000 apiece on a class action settlement buyout that one of the top CPAs in the country gets at another one of our vendors for our clients. businesses. And then finally, in this area, we're coming out with a program that's going to allow any business to obtain within five seconds, they're going to, on the average, they're going to be able for the cost of 1% to get paid within for up to $500,000 for a transaction.

And we're going to have that in a matter of weeks. And it's a real-time bank transfer, back-to-back. And the majority, 97% of the banks in the United States are on this program. Wow, that's pretty darn amazing, man. That's just incredible. I mean, the cost savings is there. It's always amazing to me in all my companies how it just was a never-ending whack-a-mole for trying to find waste. And, you know, I mean, I remember one time we had something disappear. We had a bunch of money go out the door one day, and I was like, what the hell is going on?

And our secretary decided to buy a whole year's worth of office inventory in one fell swoop, like a whole year's worth of office supply inventory. You know, back in the day, it was the expensive laser jet stuff. And I was like, what the hell? Why would you buy it here? And she just did it because, you know, she thought she could because she had the credit cards. Yeah. So, you know, there's so much waste that can happen in the business and 40 different ways that you can sit down with people's balance sheets. What's the best way for people to work with you, reach out to you, discover setting up a relationship with you, or finding out more about maybe how you could help them? Yeah, they can either call me directly at

707-328-4211, or they can email me. I've got a really easy email to remember. It's bizamerica, B-I-Z-A-M-E-R-I-C-A America at AOL.com. It's easier. I started the first couple of years. I founded World Business Services. I had, you know, Ron at WorldBusinessServices.com, and I never got the three S's in the middle. But if somebody emails me at Ron at WorldBusinessServices.com,

it'll still get to me. There you go. They can email you there. You've still got the AOL address. That always aol is my primary i get it easy for people to remember bizamerica at aol.com right it's a very yeah there you go you well and the aol is easy to remember too well you've been doing this for 30 years you got to stick with the great email that you have well yeah except i want to bring up my disasters here you know i i think yeah, except I want to bring up my disasters here. You know, I think it's important in business to bring up your disasters or your needs. And I would call it more of a need than everything else, because I have needs as a company. What I like to do is

the clients that we get are gotten from people that are business professionals like myself who have existing clients. And we've been able to be successful because we've worked with business professionals who just partner with us. And then they just go back to their existing clients and they can work under their own moniker or they can use our company's reputation, whatever they wish to do that. But I had the forethought because of the background I had with the internet experience in Pacville of reserving the name worldbusiness.com. And I purposely have not gone to market with that. I'm not the caretaker to that. I need to find a multinational company that's got an artificial intelligence engine and can use that portal to create American jobs. So whether one-line participation is in that,

or whether licensing or using some of the resources that we have, that's something that I know that I'm not the person to champion that right now. It doesn't help the greater good. And that's the whole thing, Chris, is, you know, understanding that you have the partner, just like in bridge. And so I'm still looking for those partners to let them on my company to be run centric. I want it to be, you know, centric to help the greater good. And is there a minimum size of company that should be and running my own small business for six days you know six to eight employees for 10 years i know how hard it is to run a small business i've done it i took it from cradle to great one day a guy walked in who

had sold his company to people soft he was in the hr space and he said he wanted to buy my company. I literally walked in off the street and so you just never know. And he said, well, two people said, oh, babe, I should come and talk to you and say, it's all your company. And that's how I sold hotel connections. And then I got this entrepreneurial seizure

to start World Business Services and here we are 28 years later and I still isn't fully asking about the company. You know, we live in a phenomenal white country. Myself, my wife, we raised our daughter here, Anna, and I should give her a moment of time to tell a little bit about Anna and how proud I am about her. But it's one of these things where you know you can't live in somebody else's grave.

You've got to find your own path. If you're in a captured position and you're unhappy, go somewhere else. You've got to be happy. You've got to be appreciated. Change the cast and you change the movie. What was it like to be, you were interviewed with Kathy Ireland. Is that Kathy Ireland of the old Sports Illustrated? Yeah, she's now become one of the wealthiest women in the world,

and she is one of the humblest women in the world. It was really an honor. She's just truly a wonderful, and she and I have something in common, and she was the first woman delivering newspapers in Santa Barbara growing up. But, no, she's just a lovely person. And, you know, she doesn't have to do her show, but she does it, and again, because she wants to help people. And that's the whole idea, you know. You judge a true character of a person by the way they can treat somebody that can do absolutely nothing for them.

I could do nothing. I could do absolutely nothing for Kathy Ireland. But look, she reached out. You know, I felt like I was a, you know, from the book, Dr. Seuss book, A Hork and Here's a Who. I felt like I was the who and whoville on the elephant's trunk. Oh, yeah. But it was an honor, and I really appreciated it.

Yeah. It was an amazing interview that people can see on your website. Her husband is a heart surgeon, but his application is he does lobster fishermen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, lobster fishermen, that's awesome. I wanted to take a moment, and I want to acknowledge my daughter, Anna, who I'm so proud of. Anna's 38 years old, but she graduated five-edged cap from UC Davis.

And her husband, Rob Van Acker, he's terrific too. Rob was the officer in Holland America Cruises. He was out there for seven years. They were traveling around the world. And then the cruise people got jobs at universities and entertainment venues like in Las Vegas. So he got a job at Southern Nevada College in theater lighting and stage production. He was doing that for seven years, but they're both online gamers, and they like these multiplayer things to do as their education.

So a year ago, my daughter said to Rob, hey, you really ought to get into this and do cryptocurrency with it because nobody's doing crypto. So he's got the fluency in that. He speaks at a global conference and then gets hired by this startup in Scotland. And they go over to Scotland now. And now they're managing two British programmers and 48 Ukrainian programmers who escaped before the war. And they're all now in Dubai. And that's where they are now but my daughter got my her husband into a vocation that he he and her love you know they love gaming

and now they're doing a paradigm shift for gaming i'm so proud of them i just needed to fit that in on shameless plug there you go go. There you go. We got a plug for everyone on the show. So let's round out. Give us your last pitch as we go out on the show. Yeah, just change the cast and you change the movie. What you want to do is find people who are, you know, if you meet a miserable person, they were miserable before they met you.

That can't be helped. If you're in school and you're just graduating and you are going to go out and you're going to get interviewed, if you really do need that, you don't have the means to start a company on your own and you're going into an interview, ask the first question, show you're interested, and then make sure that if you're going to get an offer to be hired, that you ask the interviewee if you meet the people you're going to be working with, because the HR department is not the people you're going to be working with. So you need to be happy doing that.

Now, if you are going to be an entrepreneur, you should contact your local SCORE agency. That's run by the Small Business Administration. It's a free tool for you, and you're going to be able to get mentored by somebody like myself. You know, that's a business professional that has an expertise in the area you're looking for. And then you can find out if they think you've got a good entrepreneurial idea. But don't risk, you know, don't risk starting a business and risking your family. Never take that type of risk. Never take a foolish risk.

One of the things I love about where I go is I can't hurt anybody with what I do. Find something that doesn't hurt anybody or risk anybody's money. That's the best thing you can do. It'll make you the happiest. Definitely, definitely. It will make all the difference in your world. Never let the miserable and the unlucky into your life. Some people were just raised with bad parents,

and they learn from those bad parents' awful habits. And, you know, I've had friends that are like, you know, this person does that or this person does that. I'm like, that's the pattern they learn from their parents. They're not going to change. They're just going to keep doing that. Never let the miserable into your life because they'll just, you end up, you know, playing captain, save them.

And that's just, and you usually can't save them. They just drag you down with them. It's kind of like a person who's drowning and they just, instead of you saving them, they just pull you down with them because they, they, they, they enjoy being in the drowning position and the victim position. So, so it's crazy. That's so right, Chris. That really well question. Yeah. Give us your.com. So if so right, Chris. That's a really well question.

Yeah. Give us your.com so we can find you on the interwebs, please. Yeah. It's worldbusinessservices.co. There you go. There you go. It's been wonderful to have you on the show. We really appreciate it.

We've had to learn a lot, Ron. It's really been a lot of fun. And, you know, you're doing a great job. Just keep doing what you're doing because you're this your program is just educating your viewer your viewership on so many different types of business people from all walks and that's what you need you never stop learning you don't need to go to college to learn and matter that our our high school should have industrial plants right on there for contractors. That's sort of hands-on for the people that want to go in the hands-on because you need it. The educational system needs to align with what the jobs market is out there.

Not everybody wants to sit in front of a computer for eight hours a day. Yeah, that's very true. That's very true. Well, thank you very much, Ron, for coming on. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity and good luck to you going forward, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. I need all the luck I can get. Take some out. It's for tuning in. Go to youtube.com for just Chris Voss. Go to goodreads.com for just Chris Voss. Go to our big LinkedIn group. There's 130,000 people over there. Go to our LinkedIn

newsletter. That thing's fun. And we're playing with the new LinkedIn audio chat. It's the newest feature we got a hold of over there on LinkedIn. So we're over there trying about every day or so trying to get chats going. It's basically a copy of the Clubhouse app if you're familiar with it. I had about 10,000 people follow me over on that app before it kind of died off. So if you get a chance to check it out over there, we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.