The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Scott Wozniak, CEO of Swoz Consulting

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Scott Wozniak, CEO of Swoz Consulting Scottwozniak.com BIO: Scott Wozniak, CEO of Swoz Consulting, has consulted with leaders on six continents, including Silicon Valley startups, family enterprises, and Fortune 500 companies. Scott is a member of Mensa (international high IQ society), reads over 200 books each year, and has written three books, with a fourth coming out later in 2023. He earned a master’s degree in business with an emphasis in Organizational Leadership and has worked with some of the leading brands of our time, including multiple Silicon Valley “unicorns” and Nucor Steel. He also spent eight years as an employee at the Chick-fil-A headquarters, working directly with the founding family and executive team to design leadership development programs, set strategy, and lead company-wide upgrades—and though he is not an employee there anymore, he regularly consults with their leaders.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends. We certainly appreciate you coming and seeing. Enough of that with the applause. Sit down, sit down, sit back,

enjoy the show. And that's really what we're all here to do. We've got an amazing author, multi-book author on the show. He's going to be talking to us about some of his brilliant mindset about leadership, building great businesses, brands, et cetera, and all that good stuff. And we're going to get to him. But one plug for the show that I want to give here, we're approaching in September, our 14th year of doing a podcast, 14 years, which I'm tired. I'm going to go home anyway. No, I'm not.

And over 1400 episodes. And I want people to know this. We've got like Simon Schuster, Penguin Random House. They're auto booking the show recently in a big deal that we cut a few months ago. And they are killing me with two to three episodes a day of great, brilliant authors that are hottest ones hitting the market on top of the tons of people that we have. The billionaires, the White House advisors, you know, it's insane. The Pulitzer Prize winning journalists. So I want you to know there's two to three

episodes you need to start listening to every damn day, at least during the weekday. You know, you can pace it out if you want over the weekend. I want you to know it's up there. So if you can't find something to listen to on the Chris Foss show that's intelligence, you need to call me and I'm probably going to smack you upside the head or see a psychiatrist.

I don't know. Don't advocate for violence. I woke up this morning and chose violence. Way to go, Chris. Anyway, guys, we love you as always. What the fuck? Anyway, we love you guys. So please, listen to all those damned episodes. And evidently you are. The show is doubling and tripling

every year for the last three or four years since we changed our format. So keep consuming and share the show with your family friends and relatives youtube.com fortune's christmas goodreads.com fortune's christmas linkedin.com fortune's christmas and now we're on tiktok trying to be cool uh the amazing gentleman author and uh all that good stuff i can't say enough about him but i will hear in his bio just give me one more second to get to it um is on the show with today. He has an upcoming book that's coming out in October.

We'll be talking about. He's wrote several different books. How to Fail as a Leader. Wow, that must be a story about me. Awake from Atrophy and the Cornerstone Path, the business fable about saving businesses. We're going to talk about, touch on some of his books, some of his consulting and speaking and all those wonderful gigs he does.

Scott Wozniak, the CEO of Swaz, S-W-O-Z Consulting, in case you think I'm drinking, has consulted with leaders on six continents, only six, including Silicon Valley. They're working on Antarctica. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the moon. I mean, there's still the moon. Including Silicon Valley startups, family, I mean, the moon. I mean, there's still the moon. Including Silicon Valley startups, family enterprises,

and Fortune 500 companies. He is a member of the Mensa Society. If you're not familiar with them, they're an international high IQ society that keeps rejecting my application every year. He reads over 200 books a year. We love this guy.

You know how I cheat reading 200 bucks a year. I just have people on the show and they give me the connection. See, that's my trick. That's the whole reason I do this podcast. And he has written three books with a fourth book, like we mentioned, coming out around October 2023. He's earned a master's degree in business with an emphasis in organizational leadership and has worked with some of the leading brands of our time, including multiple Silicon Valley unicorns and Nucor Steel.

He spent eight years as an employee at Chick-fil-A headquarters, working directly with the founding family and executive team to design leadership development programs, set strategy and lead company-wide upgrades. And though he is not employed there anymore, he regularly consults with their leaders. He lives in Atlanta with his wife and four children, and in spare time, he pushes his boundaries through a variety of extreme sports, from heliskiing to kitesurfing. Welcome to the show, Scott. How are you? Man, I am good, Chris. Thanks for hanging out with me today.

There you go. I have one bad eye, and I was reading that last part of your bio, and it looked like hell skiing. And I'm like, well, shit, that's fucking extreme. Yeah, the snow down there is not so good. So we go hell-y with a helicopter. I live in Utah. We go hell skiing every day. So gibison.com, where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Let's get the plugs in. Yeah, probably the easiest way is to go to scottwosniak.com just s-c-o-t-t-w-o-z-n-i-a-k

dot com so there you go that's got links to my company in the book and all the podcasts and all the other fun stuff it's kind of my my personal hub so that's the easiest do you want to give a plug out to the fourth book it It's not on Amazon yet. We're working on the, actually you got me good timing, working on the cover this week. And so hoping to have something finished here, the content's done, but now we're putting all the wrapping around it.

So the title though is customer experience engine. And the subtitle is the five systems of legendary brands with raving fans. I mean, I've spent the last decade or so inside building some of these great engines. So I've been doing consulting and speaking for probably 25 years, but the last 10 years have really been marked by helping to build kind of legendary brands. I mean, these folks like Chick-fil-A or Nucor Steel, kind of some of the big dogs. And some of that I added my two cents, but a lot of that was me learning how do the greats do it. And so this book's kind of a

capture of all those best lessons. And really I've actually spent the last seven years or so helping people implement this. And so we're finally getting around to writing the book of what I've been doing for the last many years. So yeah. That no that chick-fil-a brand uh is hella crazy when you go to their when you try and go to their place the line is insane it's insane the only thing i've seen rival that is the in-n-out burger line yeah no and it's funny that i've actually been to in-n-out it's one of the places they sent me to go like let's learn from how these guys do it because uh in-n-out actually preceded Chick-fil-A in some of its activities. And Chick-fil-A went and studied them and said, hey, how do we partner with you?

Figure out what you're doing. So, yeah, great. In-N-Out's got some great stuff, man. Yeah. I mean, they built a great brand at Chick-fil-A. I mean, they have the same thing our local In-N-Out has. They have all these cones that you got to go through. Yes.

Merging lines. And you're just like, holy crap. Like, why doesn't some guy just stand on top of the building and just throw burgers or chicken burgers? these cones that you got to go through yes merging lines and you're just like holy crap like uh why doesn't some guy just stand on top of the building and just throw burgers or chicken burgers at people or whatever if we could figure out how to like you could throw money to the roof we'd maybe that could work man yeah you could just i think taco bell has that they have like a new thing they built somewhere and it's like a second story is the taco bell and then they shoot it through pneumatic tubes yeah basically dropping it down on people.

That sounds like how I experienced Taco Bell. Yeah, there you go. I mean, then there's a whole other next day of that dropping and whatever shooting going up. They dropped to me, and then I dropped down to the toilet. It works great, man. It's a system. I'm going to get sued by Taco Bell now. But, you know, what's funny, you can just see, I'm flushing this out for you.

If you just have people, they just open their windows or if they got one of those T-tops, you know, Sunroof, just open that thing. And you just get like Eli Manning or somebody to throw. Oh, and if it's fries, man, you just drive through with your mouth open. You got this. This is sold, right? Wow, you've just described every fast food place I've ever been to. I just put it in here. This whole ball of lard and fat. And I'm like, yeah, go ahead. So let's talk about,

let's give an overview to you and kind of an origin story. How did you get to where you were? And let's outline some of the different services you provide there on your website. Sure. Well, man, it was not a straight path. I did not expect to be doing what I'm doing. I just kind of discovered things along the way. In fact, I sometimes now talk to people about life. So my daughter's just graduating high school and a lot of her friends, there's this pressure to be like, hey, what's your life dream? And what are you going to do to change the world? And they're overwhelmed and they're like, I just want to not take math class anymore. Right. And I'm just trying to figure out who I am. I'm still developing my ego.

I just want to get that girl to go out on a date with me. Life purpose. That's my life purpose. Right. So here's what I tell them. And I think it's because it's came out of my own story is life's a lot of times like a tree to tree journey. The pressure is like, go pick the ultimate tree. There's the giant Oak I'm going to live in and just like find it and go straight line to it. And what I'm like, listen, it's a forest. You can't see the other side of the forest. What you can see is what's the best tree in front of you that fits you now. And then you go there and then you climb that tree and learn some stuff and you'll get skills.

And from that tree, you'll be able to see another tree that's like, oh, I didn't even know that thing existed. And then you go to that one and then that one. And it's not a failure when you change from tree to tree. It's part of the normal growth journey. Very few of the people I know that are high performance, like picked one path, stayed on that path, and that's all they've ever done. It's this tree to tree discovery, but go figure it out. And by the way, the most interesting life things are not on the standard paved roads where it's like all known. It's off trail. That's where the satisfaction and joy of life is often like, we don't know what's going to come. Just start walking in the forest and figure it out. So I say that as a lead up to be like, man, yeah, I typically don't go

here, Chris, but you're making me go here. Like I'm trying to impress people. I'm going to make you go there, buddy. I'm trying to impress people with my business skills, right? You see my bio. I got this master's in business. Yeah, my first whole field. I spent 18 years as a professional actor, singer, dancer.

Wow. It's not what most people are looking for when they're thinking about their consultant. Is there a video of this that we can watch? The good news and the bad news is I grew up before the era of Facebook and Instagram. And so I literally, like this week, we just got, I found like a month ago, I found a box of old VHS and DV tapes in my parents' house. And I sent it off and somebody just digitized it. So I've been downloading old videos, but they are not publicized to the world,

which is probably why I still have a job. Were you singing your own music or were you like doing? I mean, I did make some of my own music in a band. I also got, I was in Broadway musicals. I did Shakespeare and improv comedy. Well,

Shakespeare is hard. I got gotta memorize all that uh yeah i'm there whatever oh yeah yeah exactly you you don't get to make that stuff up um no because also the thing about shakespeare is like everybody knows it so well there's always some nerd in the audience who's like you misquoted that line on page three and you're like oh love man give, man. Give me a break. You got the thigh there. Yeah, exactly. So I had a blast with it. But it was one of those scenarios where,

so I did my first speaking role when I was four years old. By the time I was 10, I was winning competitions in high school. I know what you were doing, putting you on stage speaking. Well, my mom was actually the theater director. That's what happened. It's like, I don't even think I auditioned for any of these roles in the first several years. It's like, listen, I'm dragging them to practice anyway. We might as well give them a speaking part. Then I did start getting on big stuff. By high school, I got on NBC. And so like, there's all this attention. I'm doing

these shows in front of 10,000 live audiences. And everyone's like, you got the gifts. You got to go do this. And I was like, I guess you're, I guess you do. Right. Like this is high school, right? So every kid who's good at math, they tell them you have to become an accountant. Every kid who's good at theater, you're like, well, you should, you should go be on Broadway. Like, okay. So I went and actually got a degree in theater performance, musical theater performance, um, did some professional work. I woke up in my early twenties going, I don't actually want to do this. Like I like it, but I didn't love it. And I started working with some kids on the side and did this like sports camps and inner city programs. And I was like, I think I'd just rather go do that to make a difference in the world. And so for several

years I went and ran nonprofits. And honestly, this is where the wake up call, it gets me to today. The next tree in the journey was I worked for some really nice guys who were really bad leaders. I mean, they meant well, they had good hearts. I mean, I liked hanging out with them after work. And then it was a nightmare. And I was talking to a mentor and I'm like, it's not, it's not, they're not bad humans. They're not unintelligent. Like they don't have bad intent. Like none, there's nothing wrong with them. But like, look at all these problems. And I was like, I don't even have words for it. And they gave me a business book.

And at first, Chris, I was like, ah, listen, I'm like this creative. I don't read business books. They're like, just read the book. And it was a leadership book by John Maxwell. And it was just like mind blowing. I read it. I stayed up till 2 a.m. reading it.

Like it was a novel because I'd never had words for this stuff. So books turned into workshops and conferences, and I eventually got a coach to work with me. And I was kind of like shaking my fist to God one day, like, it's not right that the world's held back for bad leaders and somebody should be doing something to help them. And it just kind of felt like God and the universe were elbowing me like, yes, somebody should go help these people. So that's kind of become my passion, man. How do I come alongside leaders and help them? These good hearted guys meant well, they had grand dreams, they didn't know how to get there. And so like how the self learning turned into like, well, I'm gonna go back to school, get a master's in

business. One of my professors asked me to start working with him on the side when I graduated to work for his consulting firm. And then he retired and asked me to take working with him on the side. When I graduated, I worked for his consulting firm. And then he retired and asked me to take over. And so I was running a consulting firm and having a blast. That's when my high school buddy, so Chick-fil-A, I worked there for a while. I actually went to high school with a lot of the Chick-fil-A leaders, including the guy named Andrew Cathy, who happens to be the current CEO of Chick-fil-A. He just took over from his dad, who took over from his dad, the founder. So the Kathy family that runs it, I grew up with them.

They're just my friends. But back then, I was like, hey, good luck with your little restaurant company. I hope you guys make it. They definitely made it. Yeah, I was going to say, I think they made it. So it was about 15 years ago. They had already become multi-billion and were launching like crazy. And they were like, hey, maybe come do that strategy stuff with us. And so, yeah, moved back to Atlanta, spent almost a decade there, learned even more than I did in my master's program, and then launched. The first client to hire me when I left Chick-fil-A to do consulting again was Chick-fil-A. So I keep working with them on lots of different projects, but yeah, that's when

I, I guess almost a decade ago now started working on how do we help other people become great? I've been inside a lot of the greats helped to be one of the guys in the room that made these decisions and built these programs. And now how do I help? Is it a fluke, right? I mean, this is a question driving me because they just got lucky. I mean, there's, you know, there is a rumor on the internet that the secret ingredient in Chick-fil-A, if you didn't notice, it's a secret recipe.

The breading is a secret recipe. Even the employees at Chick-fil-A don't know the secret recipe. There are only three humans outside of one plant. And these people have to sign, there's one plant that separately owned they do like a sign an nda and all these secrecy agreements and then they just give us the breading people at chick-fil-a don't know what's in the breading it's it's like

so that the rumor is of course that the secret ingredient is crack cocaine right i mean like that's the key to your brand growth it's just that's why it tastes so good i think that's what's in everything that tastes good. Yeah, I think it is. Coke started out with cocaine actually in it. I mean, if you're trying to build a raving fan base, it's the lever to pull. So anyways, yeah, so that's what I've been doing, man. Started in performance and then moved to this kind of nonprofit, especially with kids, and then switched to business and then got pulled in by my friends to kind of playing at the biggest levels.

And so now, yeah, that's what I do. I go inside companies and I help them figure out where are we and what we have to do to become one of the legends in our category. There you go. I think that's, you know, the branding of Chick-fil-A is always interesting, too. It's always those cows that are like trying to like eat more chicken. So first of all, that is a genius ad campaign. I can take no credit for that. That's an ad agency brought that to us and that thing rocketed before my time even. So it's in the National Advertising Hall of fame as one of the great ad campaign yeah it is i'll pick a couple of things nuance out of it one thing is that they did for years they've started to allow a little more of this but for years they had a hard rule no food pictures and you're like well you're a food company like why don't you put pictures of

your food and they said one everybody else is putting pictures of food on their billboards and in their commercials like we're not going to stand out. If you put food up there, you do that. And the second is it's not about the food. People don't believe the shiny picture anymore. I mean, McDonald's puts food pictures up there. No offense, but I don't believe it's actually going to look like that when I order it. And we've gotten used to that.

Yeah, we have. We're all jaded. And so, like, it doesn't do it much as good. And we would rather create an emotional, like, it doesn't do it much as good. And we would rather create an emotional, like just a little hit of emotional fun. Like, oh, Chick-fil-A, those guys are fun. Yeah. They're having fun. The cows are up there, you know, throwing the chickens under the bus. Yes. It's more important that they have fun when they think of you, right? That they think of you and they smile than it is for them to know the details of your menu.

I think there's an interesting insight for a lot of brands. Now, when they show up on site, we have a huge menu that like visuals. In fact, I remember a story, I was on staff when this happened. We changed the menu board signs and we took an item that had been off to the side, their chicken salad sandwich, which actually isn't on the menu anymore. They end up, they rotate through the menu, but back then it was on, but it was like literally just like with the side items, text only. All they did was add a picture, right? Like, Hey, we have a new picture.

They updated it and put more pictures on. And overnight sales, literally, literally over like one day to the next quadrupled and the entire nation, because there was a picture so when you're on site picture of the food is the only thing that matters right forget your text people don't read anymore anyway when you're doing like the road signs i don't care what's on your sandwich i just want to have fun when i see you so and you know what it breeds a bit of resentment you mentioned that earlier that you go yeah it's not what it looks like and and i think people finally uh feel a little con and jaded the the uh in in las vegas i forget the name of the paper there it's the big paper the review journal las vegas review journal um and uh they every year they do

a thing where they send all the reporters or whoever does it they send the reporters to all the major fast food places and they they take a picture of their marketing and they put it next to what it looks like coming out of the wrapper and of course it's it's awful look at and and then they they grade it and they do all this shit and you know and every every year in vegas you just sit there and just go yeah what the hell yeah like seriously you make me question my life choices, right? Like what am I doing? Which if you're eating fast food, you probably should. I was going to say,

because I'm usually eating that crap. Yeah, yeah. Don't end up looking like me, man. I'm like a walking PSA for stay away from fast food. You know, everything in moderation. That's right. So, you know, you're building your brand. You talk on your website about uh

kind of around the um aspects of your future book coming out customer experience engine what what is give us a little tease out if you would what is the customer service engine is this how much what's the gas mileage on this thing uh oil is it electric uh you know yeah yeah so uh still still gas run we'll talk about that in a bit but um yeah i will say the big idea behind it and i'll give you the details in a second but the big idea is this is that too often we think that man people who have raving fans these kind of all-in nuts customers it's just magic or it's luck right like ah they got a cool product what are you going to do my product's not sexy or or they think oh it's only, right? Like, ah, they got a cool product. What are you going to do? My product's not sexy. Or they think, oh, it's only for these kind of cool consumer brands like, you know, Apple or Disney theme parks. And it turns out it's not. It's just a fundamental human thing.

And there's a lot of brands doing it that aren't what I would say globally famous. They're like locally famous, right? Like one of our clients we've worked with is Trident Construction. Now, I bet most of your listeners don't know Trident Construction because Trident only does commercial construction in Charleston, South Carolina. If you're two hours outside, that's too far. Sorry, less than two hours from Charleston, we'll build it. If not, too bad. And they literally, we just did a strategy session with them. They're turning down like, yeah,

we just don't have the time or capacity. We're going to say no to over a billion dollars worth of business. Now they're still doing a lot of other business. That's the stuff they're like, nah, go find somebody else. They don't do bids. Like they are,

if you are in Charleston and you need something built commercially, they have crazy raving fans. People are like in a line to try to get Trident to be their builder. It's just like, listen, if you're not in Charleston or commercial construction, like why would you know this is happening all over the place? And so it's, that's where I would begin. It's not magic. It's not luck. There's a set of systems. And if you just stack these systems, guess what? You produce raving fans. It just happens every time.

I've seen it happen in many, many different settings from big to small. It's just a fundamental. So enough warm-up. Here are the five systems, right? It begins with the fuel. So the joke about electric, we're not green yet. That's a whole other tangent on whether electric even is green. We need to know the emissions.

Yes, that's right. Hey, the emissions are raving fans. There you go. What it takes out is raving fans. Is that low CO2 or high CO2? Yeah, good question. So I will say the fuel, the fuel that drives this is customer insight. Do we really know our customers?

And what I found with a lot of our clients working with them, people don't know their customers like they think. They have customer data, not customer insight. People know facts and figures about their customer, what they buy, when they buy, where they live, their zip code. But do they know why? Do they know why they picked you versus a competitor? Do they know what role you play in their life beyond just a product? Because the concept here is people don't care about your thing.

They care about how your thing makes their life better. You're the means to an end. The old classic saw is like you're trying to get somebody to buy a quarter-inch drill bit. They don't want a quarter-inch drill bit, right? They want a quarter-inch hole. Maybe even like forget the hole. They want to be able to hang a picture on the wall and have a memory. You're not the point

you're just the means to the end and so if you don't know that insight wise it gets really hard to do things to wow your customers yeah you're just guessing um or worse you do that ego i don't know what the right word for it is but it's an ego all about us thing yeah like you know i see all this advertising you know especially on like cable companies and it's like and i realize what they're doing with some of the prs they're trying to be like you know like amazon is like you know we do give our employees extra p buckets here's bob and he's really happy to have his extra p bucket on the floor um uh because he doesn't get bathroom breaks you know or something like that um but you

know i i'll see these things you know and they'll do employee profiles and and yeah you know i don't i don't want to crap on them you know hey bob at the you know your work site but i'll give a shit about bob i mean i you know he's i'm sure he's a nice guy yeah uh from a human being aspect but i'll give a shit about bob i want to come back to this i the the last year second last year i'll talk about in the engine covers this exactly so first is do you understand them and then what do we do with that insight well there's three gears at the heart of it um and the first is not where most people expect me to go if you really want an amazing customer experience then you got to show up with operational excellence.

I mean, like get the fundamentals right. These aren't the sexy things. These aren't the weird, unique differentiators. It's like on time and high quality and the product doesn't break. And the communication is clear and friendly. I mean, like, so in the restaurant world, they talk about fast food, the taste of food, speed of service, cleanliness of the restaurant, friendliness of the employees. Like Chris, you could have written that list, right? That's not complicated, but this is where a lot of people make the mistake. They skip over to this part because it's boring, right? And they want to do the fancy stuff. And so here's the first question your customers are asking. Can I trust you? It's not about how sexy and cool you can be. The question is, are you reliable? Can I count on you? And so I pick on McDonald's. For the record,

I like McDonald's. They make money. I grew up on them. I've got friends who've worked at the headquarters. They're great people, but dang, they're so fun to pick on, especially in a Chick-fil-A comparison, right? And one of my examples is like, okay, when I talk about the McDonald's ice cream machines, what do you think of? They're always broken. Always, right? Like they're fake. In fact, if you're people-

It's a bait and switch, I think, at this point. Yes, exactly. Did they even have a machine back there? Did they even have one, yeah. Yeah. In fact, if you want to amuse yourself, go to the website, www.mcbroken.com. mcbroken.com. mcbroken.com. A developer, software developer, got so mad,

he made a real-time map of the U.S. where you can see all the broken locations. Like, it's a mess. I think we should need to have the Attorney General look into that. Yeah, it's serious. Okay, but here's the thing. When you look on that map, here's the thing. When you look on that map, here's, here's the hard truth. Like, um, they're only about 90, 90, 88 to 90% on average. I'm going to have done this a bunch. I'll talk about this and have people pull it up and say, Hey, tell me what's the national average.

And again, 88 to 90% on average is how much works. Only 10 to 12% is broken. I know you thought I was going to say the other way around. No, they're up almost 90% of the time, almost every day. But here's the problem. 10% broken is enough that we don't trust them. Wow. See, being inconsistently excellent earns you the same amount of trust as being consistently bad. Wow. That's when we miss this.

You know, you mentioned cleanliness earlier and uh one of the things we'll give a an upward plug we'll go for you on on the mcdonald's story because i'm getting buzzed by their attorneys right now no i'm just kidding um but uh i was reminded this this morning i went into my local uh what would you call it? Like a convenience store, gas station, you know, 7-Eleven wannabe, but it wasn't 7-Eleven. But it's a local chain here in Utah. And they have plenty of money, so they shouldn't be a problem. But, you know, they serve all the over-the-counter, you know, pizza, hot dogs, and all that stuff that's kind of finger food right there. And so I went into the restroom and uh the moment i walked in it just looked like somebody

had taken out a toilet paper and just exploded in there and it was a mess they somebody even come and put a sign in there it says watch out mess or floor or something but they'd done nothing other than just put up the sign which which is welcome to 2023. Yeah. And I just walked out in disgust. And I was going to buy some, you know, probably, I don't know, whatever the crap you buy there. Yeah, yeah. And I just walked out in disgust. And I remember hearing that the number one franchisee in McDonald's do an interview.

And they said, what's the reason you're the number one franchisee? And they go, our bathrooms are always clean i was like what the fuck yeah what right exactly your bathrooms are always clean and that was it and they're like yeah we make sure that because if the bathroom's clean it tells the people their food is clean and uh it it makes them feel comfortable in the place and And yeah, I didn't want to eat anything in that place once I saw that bathroom. I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure these employees don't wash their hands or something. Exactly. No, that's a brilliant example of operational excellence. It doesn't matter how cool McDonald's advertising is. If it's clean, I'm good. And if it's not clean, I'm out. And this is like the table stakes. Do they even trust us?

And so is our excellence consistent? And there's a whole bunch of stuff you do to figure that out. And we talk about all the different tactics you do. So that's the first chunk. Can we just show up with that? And that alone, sometimes there are industries where we've just given up, right? Like, I don't know about your doctor, but my physician, like I have a two o'clock appointment. You show up and they're like, the doctor's waiting. It's like, let's go, Chris.

We're like, heck no, man. Like I sit in the waiting room. Then they put me in another waiting room. And then like five waiting rooms later, somebody actually shows up, right? But we just like, ah, what are you going to do? Doctors aren't on time. So there are some industries where

if you get this right that alone will already start standing out but but in and of itself it's not the whole engine it's it's probably the biggest gear in the engine takes the most work now we get to these little gears these little bitty touches that can have a big impact and again if you skip operational excellence these back. You don't want to do them. In fact, I'm going to give you the Scott Wozniak plan for ruining your company reputation, like permanently driving the brand in the ground, right? I know this is what your listeners were excited about here. I would want you to have world-class marketing and advertising and bad operations, because then you'd convince everybody to come find out, dang, he's bad at his job.

We should never work with that guy again. And then you just burn through all your reputation. And in a few years, he's bad at his job. We should never work with that guy again. Then you just burn through all your reputation, and in a few years, you're permanently out of business. It's got to be operations first. You do not want a lot of attention if your bathrooms are nasty, right?

Clean the bathroom. Then they're going to build that mental meme like you talked about with the ice cream at McDonald's. Exactly. And it's really amazing that they're actually up that much. I mean, I'm having a hard time squaring my brain around it, but I know it's true. I mean.

It's just that's how ingrained it is. That's exactly right. Well, man, it's the nature of trust. If you think about it, trust requires us to be consistent and reliable. I mean, we're friends. Like, listen, he only steals me from me once in a while, right? 90% of the time he's not stealing from me, but you know, only 10% of the times he digging through my wallet. Like, no, I don't trust that guy.

Like a relationship. Like, yeah, she only cheats on me once in a while. It's fine. Like, no, um, we count on it. It's, it's consistent or we don't. We only give you trust for your worst day, man. We don't give you trust for your good days. It's what the downside is. So, okay. So let's say we get that right. Then what? They trust you.

Well, the next gear is a little guy, but it makes a big impact. And we call it personalized service. The question they start asking is, do you care about me? Do I matter to you? Do you see me as a real person or am I just another like generic transaction? So, so how do we make these little touches to make a big impact? There are two levers that we pull, two, two methods here that you can mix and match. One is high touch. So part of my studies when I, when I worked for Chick-fil-A and did all this,

I remember I went inside great brands. Yeah. That included like a lot of time at Ritz-Carlton Properties, Disney World, their theme parks especially, right? The high-end experience is tough, man. Somebody had to sacrifice and take one for the team. Sure, yeah. Suffrage is real. Someday that sacrifice is going to pay off. I just keep telling myself that. So that being said, like, yes, this is a lot of, in fact, Chick-fil-A is kind of semi-famous in

their industry. If you say thank you, they don't say you're welcome. They have a unique phrase. You've heard this before. They say, my pleasure. Like if you say, thank you, they don't say you're welcome. Everywhere across the nation. In fact, even at the headquarters, even my kids will say it now because I got so in the habit, like Everybody in the Chip-fil-A bubble just says, hey, thanks. They're like, my pleasure, my pleasure. They're sending their emails out. Are your kids teenagers yet? I have teenagers, yeah. Wow, and they say my pleasure? Well, when they come down at 3.30 to grab food in the afternoon and then that 15 minutes, they say my, no, they're not saying it to me. They're saying it to their friends.

I mean, they don't talk to me. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I overhear them. So, dude, we stole that from Ritz Carlton. That's a high-touch, elevated language. Our founder went to Ritz and was like, oh, man, that's nice, and that's free. We're doing that.

And he came back and told everybody, we're saying my pleasure, and he made us all practice. So there's high touch things like sending them personal notes and um surprise gifts and the key to that is surprise so like when i when i talk about this i'm like okay uh like if you're a business to business company and you're sending a christmas basket i tell people like stop it like it's a waste of your dollars that's not because i'm opposed to christmas or gift baskets i like both of those things the problem is you're one of 17 other gift baskets on their company counter. You're not getting any points. It's like on my anniversary for my wedding, my wife and I is coming up this

weekend. When I give my wife flowers, I'm not earning any points, man. I'm just not losing points. You better give me flowers on her right? That's like a Christmas gift. This is not now. Now listen, like this fall, when I show up with a random rose bouquet, I mean, that's going to be a good weekend. The surprise rose has a whole level of impact that the expected rose does not. And so, so how do these are little touches that are proactive. They're not something they expect. You don't promise them in advance. You do little things to say, I see you. You send them a note. You send them a gift.

You just do a little extra thing for their team. You just do small things that say, yeah, I get you. I see you matter to me. Then you add the next lever. So the high touch is high tech. Like, man, if you're not been paying attention, AI is amazing at communication these days. And if you're not playing with all the ways technology from your CRM, your customer relationship management software

to AI systems, there's crazy stuff that allows you to do for business people often say, Hey, go play with Google news alerts, put your major clients in the news when they pop up you can read the article i did i just did this two weeks ago i pop read the article one of my buddies was in it it's like hey it's actually one of my former clients i was like hey you guys did great so i just copy the link to the article pop open email send it to him say hey saw you in the news you know make a little comment like congrats on the new acquisition send that's it 20 seconds remember i see you i care about you, make a little comment like congrats on the new acquisition. Send. That's it. 20 seconds. Remember, I see you. I care about you. It's a little tech tool that helps me keep in touch with the people I care about most. So high touch, high tech, some combination of the both. Maybe once or twice

a year for a customer, you say, hey, I like you, man. I still see you. How was that summer vacation went? Right? You went to the beach. How'd it go? So small touches that make a big impact. Okay. Now, if you've done this, you get insight, you do operational excellence, you make a personal touch at this point, they love you. But if you stop here, they aren't telling anyone about you. So this last year is how you activate them to start talking about you. And we call it memorable moments. In fact, the way it may not a word for it could be story worthy moments because people don't tell facts. They tell stories. So how do you give them talk about you? Well, okay. Actually you mentioned this. This is one of the things we will help

clients with. The biggest mistake I see is companies want to be the hero of the story. And that if you want them to talk about you, you can't be the hero of the story. You got to make the story about how awesome your customer is. See, the question they start asking is how do I feel about myself when I'm with you? Now that's, it's subconscious. Most of us aren't asking that explicitly, but, but that is what's going on in the back of all our brains all day long. The brands we love, the things we do. I mean, even fans of your show that watch this, it's, I mean, is it because they love you? Sort of, but really,

if you want to get into the unstated, it's they feel pretty cool about themselves because they're the kind of people that stays caught up with the experts and the big dogs and all the cool people you have. All that coolness rubs off and we're like, I mean, I was just listening to a NASA astronaut. So like, I'm pretty cool.

Like I am a man to the moon. But when I hear an astronaut, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just podcasting with that guy today. I saw him on live LinkedIn. It was great, right? Like we feel awesome about ourselves. So the companies that try to tell the Amazon stories, like you said, like, look how cool we are. We might even believe them.

We're not going to tell anybody. I don't tell them your story. I want to tell stories that stories like you said, like, look how cool we are. We might even believe them. We're not going to tell anybody. I don't tell them your story. I want to tell stories that make me feel good. So we create these story worthy moments for your customers to be proud of who they are. And you get up. So we got to be in the story, though. Right. So so this is the last key to this year.

I'm going to use Star Wars to explain this. So partly because I might be a Star Wars nut. I mean, I may have a Jedi robe and lightsaber in the closet. It is for the kids. It's for the kids, right? But I think it also works. Even if you're not a Star Wars fan, like bear with me. Okay. So I keep wanting to make the story about me. Like I'm Luke Skywalker, right? I'm the hero. Hang on. Young Luke, not depressed, deadbeat dad Luke, right? What did they do to that guy? One of the great characters wrecked him. Wrecked him.

Like total moron by the end. Maybe he got the bad force. Seriously, something went wrong there. The end of the force. Okay, so young Luke or Rey, right? I'm the hero jedi i'm gonna save the day and they might even believe you're a jedi but they don't tell anybody i keep thinking like don't check him out he's a jedi nope if you want to talk about it the story's about awesome

of a jedi they are they're the hero it's them realizing no no you have the capacity to save the guy you you aren't just some old moisture farmer. You are pretty epic. You can change the world. You can be cool. Now we got to be in the story though. So who are we if we don't get to be Luke or Ray? We are Yoda. We're the wise mentor.

We're the guide that helps them realize, hey, I really am awesome. And I wouldn't have learned it if this guy helped me figure it out. I mean, honestly, it's kind of what you get to do, Chris, right? Like you get to come alongside and help authors and experts and all these folks kind of get a chance to share their story. And you're just maybe sarcastic Yoda on the side, right? Like, you know, snarky Yoda hanging out. Of course you're not going to regret it. It has to be. People will tell that story all day long.

Look how cool I am. Yeah. You know, thanks to this guy. And so how do we create these moments? Maybe it's a professional party where you're like at the end of a construction project, our clients throw a party and say, look at how cool you guys are. We're so glad we could help you build. Look, the world's going to be better because of what you built.

Or maybe it's a cool packaging that makes you feel like apple's boxes are bananas because i feel like i must be pretty awesome look at the cool stuff i'm i got right um you know it's funny like i do this i go around i'll talk about this packaging packaging's a way to make them feel awesome again not about you it's about them how cool am I that I have this product? And Apple boxes, I mean, it's so ridiculous. I'll ask people for a show of hands and say, okay, how many of you still have an Apple product box you've not thrown away? Like you're just keeping the box. And about 80 to 90% of the room will put their hand in the air everywhere around the country. I'm like, I mean, something about the box. And it's not because we love Apple. It's because Apple makes me feel cool. I feel like I'm a cool creative because of Apple. I mean,

yeah, I'll brag about Apple's coolness. But really, what I'm saying is like, look, I'm the kind of guy that has cool devices like this. That's what's going on underneath the surface. So okay, so you zoom out, right? You customer insight, you get to know them, then you have operational excellence. We are in trust. And then small little bit of things to say, I see you, I get you. I actually like you, man. I use your name, right? Like Chris, and I'll just say, I like you insert podcast host name here. Right. And then when they love you, you want them to start activate these people to talk about you. And you just create these little story worthy moments where they get to kind of humble brag, but maybe you're not so humble, right? But they get to brag

a little and man, they'll just go nuts telling the world how awesome you are and you should buy this stuff and you should go to his things. And that engine just dadgum works. It's fundamental human psychology. It works in America. It works in India. It works in South America. I mean, we've taken this to companies all over the place from manufacturing to retail clothing, to software for businesses, to healthcare. I mean, this even works in hospitals. This is just how people buy into a brand and get excited to talk about it. So that's the engine. That's what we've been doing. It's been a ride, man. I've been having a blast. I love the concept.

You know, I mean, we've sold people on the show. I mean, we improv the ramble every time. But I think the intro has some of that in it. And, you know, part of the intro original cut that we sent to the radio guy was uh it was uh if you're smarter it'll make you sexier and people will uh like you more or something it was there's some sort of and i've joked about over the years where i'll just be like because remember on the chris voss show if you're smarter people think you're sexier and um and so you know you're right i get a lot of that feedback on the show i was looking over

something somebody wrote me last night uh and a comment on the show and and and stuff and it's always funny uh because i i think our guests are brilliant i love having them on the show i that's my that's my thing but i'm always surprised you know because some people will be like well no chris we like you we like you're funny or they like the experience and you've tuned me into something that has been going right by me for a long time with the show and the comments and the feedback i get yeah people people they want that cool experience they want to hang around with a cool guest and some idiot who thinks he's funny and tells a you know every 150 jokes one's funny uh and uh and so they like that and they like the energy of the show too but you know they like that experience of being able to say that they're

involved with something cool and we have brilliant people like yourself on the show and so yeah i need to do more of that in fact i think our whole new campaign is do you really want to have glowing skin that's right do you want to glide two feet above the pavement when you walk listen to chris fosh show do you want to be able to move objects with the force yeah there you go i'm about to run that by the attorney see how that works out that's promiseable i mean you know uh i mean i could do the other thing just promise a great afterlife no one will be able to come back and sue me over it. There you go. There's that too.

If you subscribe to the Chris Voss Show, when you die, there'll be unicorns in the side or something. Yeah, yeah. So this has given us a lot of insight, man. And you got a lot of other cool things we didn't get to on the website that I questioned about. Employee engagement engine. I love that engine. It's a parallel engine.

I'll give you the 10 second version is the details are totally different, but the principles are the same. You got to earn trust. You got to make them feel cared about, and then you got to make them feel like they're a hero. And so how you do that with employees is very different than how you do it with a customer, but they're both humans,

right? So, yeah. So we say this is parallel, or if you want to play with the metaphor a little bit, it's parallel, like the two strands of the DNA double helix are parallel because they intertwine, right? If you want to be a legendary brand, you need to have highly engaged employees and you need to wow your customers. And if you can do both of those, you'll be one of the greats in your category. I mean, that's how the game is played. There you go.

And employees make all the difference. One of the problems I've been having, one of the things that I do not like is the Walmartization of trying to make everyone be their employee and be their cashiers. Yeah. I really hate that. And my local Walmart just is doing a renovation right now where they're getting rid of even more checkout stands that you need a cashier for. And they literally hide the employees that can do your cashier work for you.

Yeah, no, they don't want you using them. Walmart is running the exact, there's two basic ways I think to win in business in any category, right? You can be the premium player and create raving fans who say, you're just the best. I don't care about the timer or cost.

Like I have to have this cause it's, nobody gives me this experience or you can be the cheapest player and you win on volume and nobody loves you, but dang it, you're just the most convenient and both of those can win. I mean, you can make money either way, but they're totally different archetypes. And so McDonald's is the alternate. It's like the McDonald's and Walmart are right. That version of this. And then on the other hand, you got like Chick-fil-A or maybe Trader Joe's or Whole Foods. It's like, I mean, dang, that's expensive for that cheese. But, I mean, it's an artisanal French cheese.

And, again, who feels awesome? I feel like I'm pretty snooty and cool because I buy the fancy stuff, right? You know, you bring a good point. It used to be that when you would go to Walmart, that guy would greet you. And that would make you feel special. Like, hey, I see, you know, like you said. It started that way. It totally did.

And they have slid. And they're on the race to the bottom now. How cheap and lean can we possibly make this thing? And, you know, they have volume and they're winning that game. But I'll put it this way. My wife hates going to Walmart so much so that like if we have to send her to a Walmart run, I'm like, can I do? I really don't want to lose you for the afternoon because she will be in a bad mood for hours after one Walmart. Lose her or lose all the money she's going to spend.

I mean, sometimes I'm going to need the money. Like it's, we wanted to have a good evening. So yeah. Yeah. There you go. You know, so last night I go to Walmart and they're doing this stupid shit and I'm an asshole. If you, if no one notices, I think my audience is like, yeah, he's an asshole. doing this stupid shit and I'm an asshole. A few, if no one notices,

I think my audience is like, yeah, he's an asshole. He's funny, but he's an asshole. Um, but, uh, I'm a jerk.

And so what I do is I'll always ask for the cashier. And I forgot like one or two things. I'm just like, I'm not going to mess with this. But if I have more than maybe four or five items, I'm being a dick and, and you can hate me me but i'm doing this for the employees i'm doing this for jobs i'm supporting people's jobs that's right so um i'll

ask for the cashier and they have to go find them and do whatever and then usually the ladies are always oh i have to do some work and they and so they come over and and help me and i'm always bitter and ugly about it and uh i i just you know i'm not ugly about it i just i'm just a real cocksure about it and i just go hey man i i pay for groceries and as far as i'm concerned part of the price was this so deliver it you know i'm i'm not happy that we could get into a whole other episode about the tipping thing with those clover tip machines that make you pre-tip. That's a whole new level of anger. And then when I go out into the yard with the cart, I leave that cart fucking out somewhere.

I do not work for you. Hey, you're making sure the parking attendants have work to do, right? They have work to do right yeah work to do because because i don't and part of that part of the experience is is being like i think you really nailed it you know engaging with the company and getting that experience and part of that is the emissary of the employee and so and so fuck it you know i have some friends on social media they're like oh you're not a man if you don't return the cart like a good little boy uh servant worker to the thing no fuck it no i'm not doing it i'm not i'm not your employee i'm not your machine i don't

work for you yeah you know uh i could get it we could get into all this other stuff about how every time i call customer service now the first hour is about how it's your problem and something you're doing instead of something we fucked up. And then, but last night I went into Walmart and I'm, I'm being my bitter self that I am my asshole self. And I, there's, I can't find anybody who looks like a cashier.

And there's one guy working the self things. And I said to the young man, I go, I go, Hey, is there a cashier? And dude, he hopped to it. Like nobody hops to it anymore.

And he goes, yeah, hang on, run over here and I'll take care of you he's like holy shit this guy every time i ask somebody else at any other place it's like oh oh my god yeah god interact with the thing and that's where it was become walmart yeah and uh so he runs over and he's energized and he's hey how you doing man i'm like yeah i'm good i'm good you know i go and so i was like you know i really hate what you guys are doing here he goes yeah man i feel you i get

you and uh and but he was just energetic friendly and we had a good exchange and i left feeling really good yeah for the first time it doesn't take a yeah that wasn't expensive it didn't require special technology um somebody actually just showing up making a human connection and putting a little effort into it yeah that's often all it takes man um no yeah it's it's uh and and i'll add one other comment on this but it just goes to show that may he i've been in some of the greats and seen some some bad apples right but i've been in some of the greats and seen some bad apples, right? But I've been in some of the worst and seen some amazing people. Brands, companies, they're not big monoliths.

You can make a difference wherever you are, whether you're – maybe you're not the CEO and you can't do – I can't change my – you can change your team. You can be the guy that changes somebody's day like this and says, yeah, I'm entry-level peon. That's fine. You get to make a difference. So yeah, this is not something reserved for the high and mighty CEOs. This is something everybody can do. There you go. And it's that employee touch. And I think a lot of us, when we think about automation and AI, we don't realize how much as human beings we really miss that yeah uh thanks to matthew fulton for uh uh calling this in here those are the employees you steal yes you know i almost said that we uh i may have advised ceos like if you see a rockstar at walmart hire him away you know he's not lasting very long right like yanko buddy i used to do

that with salespeople and if i ever owned a company that where i could steal something but yeah i went into my local good earth the other day and i was in a typically bad mood uh typical well i guess i just admitted something there uh i just woke it up and i was really ornery uh and i know i i know i was ornery because they haven't been stalking my damn kefir and they keep telling me they will and they haven't been doing it. So I went up and I was being real angry to the, uh, uh,

I wasn't being angry. I know I'm not mean to people. I don't punish people that, you know, it's not their fault. Somebody, it's not doing their job. Uh,

and, uh, so I'm just kind of in a, just a messy mood. Yeah. And then the guy says to me, he goes, Hey man,

what's the Chris Foss show. And I, I always forget I'm wearing the hat. Oh yeah. And I, and like right away, I went, went oh it's my podcast he goes hey what's that like you know he's got like people waiting in line he's got better things to do than ask me what my stupid shit is and uh and i'm like and i told him he goes hey that sounds pretty interesting i think i'll check that out then i realized i should probably be nice to the guy because, uh, potential customer.

And so, uh, yeah, but, but just that touch, like changed my day, changed my whole attitude. I left going, yeah, man, uh, let's knock off this bad attitude and let's get some sleep. Um, you know, another, uh, call in here from Matthew Fulton. Thanks, Matthew. Uh, back in the day, there's this thing called customer service. You know, maybe we need to resurrect Sam Walton. Because that was Sam Walton's real big key was customer service. Oh, he was phenomenal at this. And this is the irony. McDonald's became its big beast because they used to be known for their excellence, man.

This is how a lot of these became great. And now they're kind of coasting on the momentum they got from those back days. But yeah, dude, this is how all on the momentum they got from those back days but yeah yeah dude this is this is how all all of the great brands used got built and so now they just kind of got squeezed tight on the money and trying to see how efficient can we do it yeah i mean it and i think that's the big danger of ai and a lot of these other things is people don't realize that human element is still juice yeah like being on the phone with somebody and having a conversation, that's still money. We're still social creatures, man.

All the technology in the world is not going to change that. We're herd animals. We thrive when we bump into each other and pour into each other. I mean, it's what we're made for. I've been at the, I think it's McDonald's or Taco Bell down in Vegas, and they have the kiosk. And I want to push that thing over yeah that's just me no mcdonald's is playing with uh a test kitchen right now that is fully robotic not just the kiosk in the front the food in the back is all made by robots and

automation wow there's not a human in the building you just punch a button and they tell you what slot and you go open your little door and there's's your food. And I'm probably still going to get cold fries. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. Now there's nobody to yell at when they get cold. You know, there's different tricks people taught me other years with fast food. You know, you ask for something special on the burger. Yeah, no, that's the key.

Custom order, don't it? Extra salt. No salt is better than extra salt because they'll take the old fries and dump salt on them. No salt. And they're like, Oh, son of a shit. And they got to go make a fresh batch for you.

Yeah. All these tricks to get fresh, you know? And so if there is going to be AI robots, I'm going to fuck with them. I'm going to love you. Like, and I already do that in and out.

Cause you know, you got the secret menu. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I'm an animal style guy. Heck yeah. Animal style, toasted bun, pickles oh yeah double animal style that you know you can do that it's evil man it's evil like give me double animal style extra pickles extra toasted bun

uh extra cheese which if you get a two by four i was gonna say you're doubling your double cheese now right and your heart attack uh yeah it's exactly right and then uh you know so that's what i'm gonna start doing i'm gonna start fucking with the ai robots to see if they can perform yeah i got the three-quarter length uh you know salt on only the top half yeah yeah there you go well it's been wonderful having the show Scott. Very insightful and delightful discussion we've had. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah. www.scottwozniak.com. That's S-C-O-T-T-W-O-Z-N-I-A-K.com. You can find me, my company, my books, my podcast, all the fun stuff. Check me out there. There you go. Any relation to the Woz, Steve Wozniak?

Well, it's funny you ask. So if people don't know, Steve Wozniak founded this little company with a guy named Steve Jobs. It's called Apple, I think. Yeah. Yeah. They're doing okay. So if I want to, you know, to be really honest, if I'm going to be a punk and honest, I can say that I grew up with Steve Wozniak. He's my first cousin. We lived down the road from each other, went to all the holidays. Unfortunately for me and my device budget, it was not that Steve Wozniak. I grew up with a totally other Steve Wozniak. So, no, the Woz of Apple, as far as I know, as far back as my family tree has been tracked, he's not in that branch. So maybe another branch of Wozniak's. But yeah.

You should still send him a message, man. You might get in the will. I mean, you know, when he gets old, he might not know the difference, right? I think he's kind of there now. No, I'm just kidding. We love Steve. I've talked to him a couple times. He's a nice guy.

He is a phenomenal guy. Yeah. He seems like a really nice guy too i mean when i talked to him he was very nice and cordial and i'm just like you really don't have to be this nice to me because i'm an asshole anyway uh but he was wonderful and i think one of my friends is good friends with him um robert scoble uh so anyway thank you very much scott for coming on the show we really appreciate it man chris it was awesome man there you go there you go that's what we do and see now you guys are more brilliant sexier you've assimilated with all the wonderful people and when you walk around today after listening to this podcast you're gonna glow and people are gonna go man that person is confident sexy hot intelligent

confident and whatever verbs you want to throw in there. It's true. It's true. And if they want to feel like a Jedi, when they're going in the grocery store, if they just put your three fingers up and wave it right when the door's about to open, I'm just, no legally binding promises, but I'm just saying you might have force powers. These are not the carts you're looking for. There you go. Thanks to my brilliant audience for tuning in because without you, we love you. And Scott has reminded me that I need to kiss this and suck up to my audience even more than I do already.

And I think you know that we love you. Anyway, be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.