The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – So Good They Call You a Fake: Command Attention, Monetize Your Talent Stack, and Become the Uncontested Authority in Your Niche by Joshua Lisec

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

So Good They Call You a Fake: Command Attention, Monetize Your Talent Stack, and Become the Uncontested Authority in Your Niche by Joshua Lisec https://amzn.to/465jo4X Lisecghostwriting.com They call you a fake because you're the best. "What Joshua Lisec helped me do to launch my book, my brand, and my telehealth business has brought me visibility, attention, and engagement and has allowed me to further my mission on a scale that I never imagined possible. Few people know how to generate consistent, predictable results so good they start an internet firestorm that spreads your name further than you could have on your own. If you, too, would like success beyond your wildest dreams, read this book and do as Joshua says." - Philip Ovadia, MD, Board-Certified Cardiothoracic Surgeon and Award-Winning, #1 Bestselling Author of Stay off My Operating Table (20,000+ Copies Sold) Being called a fake is the last rite of passage on the internet. In the relentless pursuit of excellence, you only know you've arrived when you have "haterz"-your most valuable marketers. So Good They Call You a Fake is how you get there. This book teaches step-by-step with no steps skipped how to get the visibility you've already earned, become an energy monster who thrives on all kinds of attention, and then monetize that attention to the max. The Definitive Guide to Creating Books, Courses, Coaching, and Services that Get Results So Good People Can't Believe They're Legit

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from the chrisvossshow.com, the Chris Voss Show. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends. It's an honor to have you guys as an audience.

As I always like to say, we love you. And we never can stop loving you. We just can't stop. Is there a song here? I don't know, man. There's probably a song lyric there. But we love you and everything you do. Thanks for joining us.

14 years, 1,400 episodes. Be sure to further show your family and friends and relatives. We've got two to three podcasts a day of just some amazing people coming on the show. We recently had the captain of the USS Theodore Roosevelt on the show. If you remember his viral experience in 2020 where he walked off a ship and everyone clapped for him. That just got published this morning. And we just had someone from the U.S. Department of Justice on. So amazing things there going on in the show.

Check out those episodes because you're just going to be smarter. And when you're smarter, you're sexier. Everybody wants to be more sexier, don't they? I mean, I just ooze sex when it comes down to it. That whole George Clooney aspect that I have is just amazing. So for further information, your family, friends, or relatives, goodreads.com, 4chesschrissfoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrissfoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrissfoss, andcom, FortressCruzFoss, LinkedIn.com, FortressCruzFoss,

and go see us on TikTok. We're trying to be cool over there. We have an amazing gentleman on the show. If you've ever thought about writing your own book, getting your story down, becoming popular, writing books and stories, he may be able to help you. We have Joshua Lysek on the show, and he is the author of the amazing new book, So Good They Call You a Fake. Command attention, monetize your talent stack,

and become the uncontested authority in your niche. Just came out on June 15, 2023, and you can order his book wherever fine books are sold. He's an amazing gentleman with amazing history, and it's going to blow your mind at some of the things he's done. He's the author of the new amazing best-selling book we aforementioned in a Wall Street journal best-selling ghostwriter and internationally. He's written, ghostwritten I should say, more than 80 books that have been translated into several languages on everything

from metabolic health and internet marketing to political tell-alls and current events reporting. In 2011, he founded his company and a premier ghostwriting and concierge publishing firm. Welcome to the show, Joshua. How are you? I'm pretty dandy, Chris. Thanks for having me on today. Pretty dandy. There we go, man. There's some, was it 1920s language there? Dandy pretty dandy there we go man there's some uh was it 1920s language there dandy yes there we go all right well that's that must mean you're really excited so give us a dot com where people want you where you want people to find you on the interwebs or maybe where they want you to find them on the interwebs yeah sure thing the the most informative is going to be lysec ghostwriting.com but my shenanigans my most special and dangerous content

is going to be on twitter at lysek with shenanigans eh yes shenanigans you say i feel like i need a whole uh library of 1920s uh uh uh commentary uh words uh so uh welcome to the show congratulations on the new book uh what motivated you to want to write so good they call you a fake? Yes. So the type of authors that I get the best results for are people who are bona fide experts in their domain and their space. The problem is they have to rely on word of mouth in order to put food on the table. That's a problem because at the top of their industry are people charging 100 times what they're charging or more, but those people have optimized for marketing. They've optimized for revenue, lead gen, all the above. They've not optimized for results.

So what happens is charlatans who don't have any confidence problems make the most money in any given industry not the people who are good at what they do wow hypnosis and hypnotherapists who charge 150 bucks who are just spectacular at what they do and then there are people who are charging 150 000 for their services in that same space who are beginner level at best. But they can those prices because they're not afraid to promote themselves. There you go. The people that I work with as experts, what they are not is authorities. What they are not is authorities.

They're not the go-to person. And writing a book is what grants them that authority they've already earned and what i advise is not just write a book write a book that has a bombastic over the top promise and it feels like clickbait like there is no way you could fulfill that promise and then i'll document your system your step-by-step with no step skip process so that readers can actually fulfill that promise and get results that are so outsized that they're so good they have to be fake as i enter the book into the picture and the idea of the mona lisa with the groucho marx glasses on here is that people take one glance at you and they say oh okay, well, that's obviously fake.

Look, it's like a cartoonishly fake. But then they look closer and realize, oh, no, you're the real deal. Oh, wow. That's the first step to step up into the authority status that you've already earned. That's the key. You've already earned this. You're already the best, but no one knows who you are.

And the reason no one knows who you are is because you're afraid of being called a fake of being called a fraud of being seen as an imposter but that's the greatest strength the negative reviews are golden haters are your most valuable marketers it sounds like my youtube channel there you go this is kind of interesting so a bombastic over approach uh maybe some would you call it like click baiting sort of titles and things of that nature 100 yes uh a title that's not boring and as there's more and more players competing in any given niche in any given space what it takes get attention, the price of attention just goes up and up and up and up. And people who are focused on getting attention and monetizing it and whatnot, they're not focused on results. They're focused on revenue.

So I want to work with the underdogs. And I have. And I've helped turn people from nobodies into household names in their space. And it's because of a book, but it's more than that. It's what goes into documenting their system, their way, their, their process, their thing, and then packaging it in the form of a book. And then also packaging it as a course, a coaching offer, consulting experience, a one-on-one professional service, which is what the book teaches how to do. It teaches how to maximally monetize your skill set and your expertise, which people don't know how to do, but that's what they come to me for.

And I thought, well, I could put that in the book for them so that they could run with it themselves. There you go. And that's really what you need to do with a book. It's amazing to me. For years, I kicked around, I'm like, should I do a book? Oh, to me you know for years i kicked around i'm like should i do a book oh my god you know and tried to get one launched several times and then uh it's amazing what a difference how people look at you when you're an author of a book partially because i think it's so hard to get one written um but uh uh it just gives you this

level of authority that's crazy man like people man. People started bowing to me whenever I would go out and stuff after I wrote a book. No, they didn't. Yeah, so the word author is in the word authority. Oh, there you go. I didn't even think of that. Yeah, it's people like, Joshua, what do you know about getting noticed and making money online? I wrote the book on it.

Oh, okay. And the conversation is over. And that's how it's like for people in any industry. You know, of course I was talking to somebody in the home service industry right before this conversation on, on, on their show.

And I was advising their, their audience of things like real estate agents, landscapers, plumbers, roofers, not a single one of those people, those owners of those companies has written a book, most likely in their geography. In order to become the number one uncontested

authority who gets all the cloud, all the credibility and all the great clients, be the first person to write a book. Be the first person to write a book. Yeah. On that, for that space, have copies there at the office send them the clients and what you do not want to do is have it be an a ceo ego stroker where the there's like a full body shot of the ceo in their four-piece suit on the front cover and it's like the jackson and sons company story like nobody cares about that nobody cares about the jackson and Right. Nobody cares. But if the Jackson sons company, let's say is a landscaping company that's been in town for 80 years and they do excellent work around beautification.

And one of the things that they do is help people turn their boring old backyard and like a fricking wildlife habitat. That should be something you teach step-by-step with those steps, how to do, Oh, Joshua, I don't want to give away the farm. I don't want to give all my secrets. That's the

point. You have to do that. You have to do that. Otherwise, you will be seen as a fake. Like, okay, you have this bombastic clickbait promise and you don't actually fulfill it inside of the book. Well, then you're a scam. The metaphor I love to use, Chris, is Lego system.

Back in the 1990s, Lego sets like the children's toy Chris, is Lego system. Back in the 1990s, Lego sets like the children's toy was marketed as Lego system. Little kids 4, 5, 6 can build fantastic castles and spaceships and even moving functional machines. Even like Lego produces robots now that a 6-year-old can build

and actually works and they can program it. A 6-year-old can program a robot because of the Lego instructions. These things are step-by-step with no steps skipped, reversed engineered from the outcome, which is a functional robot. A six-year-old can build. And that's how we ought to write books. This is the type of books that I ghostwrite,

is what is that promise you're going to fulfill and then work backwards from there. What was everything that was required to get the reader to that point? That's your table of contents. is what is that promise you're going to fulfill and then work backwards from there what was everything that was required to get the reader to that point that's your table of contents oh okay your book just writes itself then do you recommend people write memoir books uh they interweave them with uh you know authority type books or should they really focus on authority there's something to be said for a memoir mashup and my book i do include quite a few stories from my experiences and even some about my own personal life but most people

don't really care and i point out unless you are someone literally famous killed someone literally famous slept with someone literally famous or found the buried treasure of someone literally famous nobody cares. Note to self, kill someone famous. Don't do that, people. That's a joke. They really don't care. So it's better to focus on,

hmm, what type of book will bring me people who will pay me a lot of money? And they will say to me, Joshua, I read your book. I loved it. But let me just tell you, I don't have time to implement all this advice. Can I just pay you $25,000 to talk to my team for two hours? And I get pictures of people taking emails and direct messages and text messages, people sending me screenshots and pictures of the checks they get for implementing their authority books at companies.

$15,000, $20,000, $25,000, $50,000, $100, dollars to show up for two hours and say here we're walking through my book and then we did leadership and answer questions it's it's remarkable what an authority book can do and yeah it's it's uh it's a shame that more people don't write them but i i think i can solve that problem there you go and you've proven that with your your i mean you've helped uh co-write 80 different uh books and and helped them ghostwrite them and stuff. What about ghostwriting and things like that? I mean, we have a lot of people. We just had the captain, Brett Crozier, on the show.

He didn't do ghostwriting, I don't think, but he had an assistant writer help him write it. We see that a lot with people um is this something people can uh you know look at delve into and uh you know uh help help get stuff written because a lot of people that are successful they either don't have the time to sit down and write a book or maybe they won't write it in the right way and so having that format and a ghostwriter might help them it could it could i'm a bit of an elitist and i say most people should not write a book and oh right uh nor nor should most people even hire a ghostwriter to write a book i know that's kind of against the unpopular it's a bit unpopular now to say that sort of thing because self

publishing technology allows anyone to write a book or the problem is chris anyone is writing a book and they're selling one copy ever in their lifetime to mom and it's right there's like 32.6 million books available on amazon right now yeah roughly 99.99 percent of them have sold fewer than 10 copies it's atrocious and chat gpt and other ai tools is increasing the quantity while lowering quality simultaneously of the average number of books and how good they are that's um out there ghostwriting is not what feels like a pay-to-place word of a relationship which is the perception that it has like oh i can just you know just show up and and uh anybody can uh you know pay a lot of money and they have a book written and then i put my name on it it's

not really like that it's more like an interview and inter have a book written and then I put my name on it. It's not really like that. It's more like an interviewer and interviewee relationship. And then it's the writer's job to document the system. But then structure it such a way that readers can easily access the material and get results from it and then refine it. So it's got all the little tricks, tips, techniques, and tactics of an effective book. There you go. That's what the job is yeah there you go so do you did you write the book and hope that people would use your services more or just to help people do what was your goal what do you hope people get from the book and walk away from

yeah yeah so here's the here's the situation every other ghostwriter has written a book called here's how to write a book they they all do there's even people who follow me on twitter who will copy and paste stuff my website and put it on their website like oh really is that you know you're good as when you steal your stack creative plagiarize you yeah i'm not concerned because they charge like 150th what i do and so we know it's not going to be any good and if they're just inheriting the greatness well then it's they don't know where greatness is headed so it's not going to work out the book i was supposed to write is how to write a book by the ghost writer but that's a boring book plus it doesn't contribute to the conversation what i found is most difficult for an aspiring author that i want to work with, the actual authority, the expert who does not have authority

and wants the authority because they're an expert, not some schmuck or grifter. Those sort of people, what they need is a complete replacement of their mindset, a worldview transformation. And they need the ability to self-promote. And they also need to know step-by-step, there's no step skipped,

how to monetize their expertise. And also need to know, step by step, with no step skipped, how to monetize their expertise. This is the problem with actual experts is they're so good at what they do, they don't know how to package and productize it and price it because they're just good at getting results. But they're broke, unfortunately. For $10,

$15, $20, $25, $30, I can solve those people's problem with the book. then they'll be able to afford me one day you see i see how this is i i see how you're working here uh what are some other myths or aspects that people might have it trying to go from the level you're trying to take them to from being experts to to being that multi that ultra level? Something that happens when you're on the threshold of true greatness, and this gets the title of the book,

you begin to cultivate organic haters. Randos who are making fun of your appearance or are claiming you're a fake, a fraud, and a liar. So I'm one of the only ghostwriters in human history who's ever earned more than $1 million a year ghostwriting multiple years in a row. And I get people accusing me of Photoshopping those screenshots that I post. Really?

Oh, yeah. It's hilarious. There's no way anyone can earn that much. Obviously fake. And they always use bad verbs, I call them. Not adverbs, but bad verbs,'re they're making a wild accusation or accusing someone of lying or they are lying themselves they use adverbs continue because this is a little uh little technique that i i pick up as a professional persuader is if someone is inventing a story or

wants you to believe their version of events they'll use a lot of adverbs that's interesting yes so my haters all use adverbs like there's literally no way this guy did this absolutely not in fact let me show you something this is kind of fun uh i teach people to monetize the madness of the mob and i do this myself. And so on the opening pages of the book, as you can see here, is a tweet from one of my best fans. He says, dude, you'll likely block me for this,

but you know you didn't personally write all those books. We know you didn't write all those books. Why keep lying about it? It's just weird. That's your number one fan. So I shared that and I said, this is a critical teachable moment. if you're not getting accused of fraud because your results are so mind-blowing to normies

you aren't challenging yourself be so good they call you a fake there you go and that tweet is the the gist of of the book but people don't promote themselves as much as they should the great ones i mean the grifters are on everybody's feed 24-7, retargeting like crazy, maxing out all of their ad budgets, right? It's the great ones who are charging $150 for one session. Oh, and by the way, you get your first session free. They're so good at what they do, but they suck at monetizing. It is a mishmash. And so that's just the way it is. And've learned and as a ghost writer working across all these industry

and ghost writing for authentic fakes if that makes sense actual people who have no idea what they're talking about and i had to invent i didn't get wholesale advice on their behalf seriously to do because i ghost written books on that space already so i can get something that was passable as as as workable content crap you know i mean the internet has created people that can do that i mean they can they can totally fake who they are and they can just make stuff up and you're just like seriously i it's just amazing what the internet has been able to do with people. You can create a whole persona. We see these people that are these Instagram people that get really successful. They pay, I think it's like $40 or $60 in LA.

You can go down and pretend like you're sitting in a fake luxury plane and take a whole photo shoot. People are like, like oh they're flying private jets everywhere they must be successful and rich you know you're renting cars for photo shoots and videos and stuff it's crazy all the different fakery they can go but that marketing like you mentioned is is a real key behind it in uh you know fronting that whole success thing and and and what you mentioned earlier, you know, where people attack your body, what you look like and stuff, you know, for years on YouTube, we, we'd have people attack me and they're like, here, you have fat fingers, you know, or my, I was a joke. They're like, you're fat. And, you know, I'm doing like a product review,

you know, or an interview and they're like, you're fat. And you're like, well, thanks Captain Obvious. Like I had no idea that i was fat but thanks for pointing that out because now i know but uh you know and and we're used to having like competitors with other channels that are trying to compete with ours you know they'll write hateful comments in the thing and and you'll be like why aren't they running hateful and you're like oh they have a youtube channel and they have a video up that's like ours. And they're trying to, they're angry because ours is beating them on the thing. So really insightful. And then you help people design the program that they need to do because there's a lot of different steps to this.

It's just not publishing your book. Yeah, a book should not come later. And that's why I realized I couldn't just write a book about writing books because I don't just do that. And I also don't just do books. There's so much that comes before. This is a 17 chapter book. We don't talk about books until chapter eight. Oh, wow.

The first seven chapters are what I call your system for genius. Meaning the thing that you do better than anyone else does it, that gets results that are indistinguishable from miracles, magic, or just simply a mad genius like you. And how to document that, how to package it in such a way that any random internet stranger can pick up your system and get the results you've promised. And teaching how to do that is the most valuable contribution I can make to planet earth. There you go for seven chapters and then we turn how to turn your system into a book then into a course then into coaching and consulting then into a once-off service and then into an ongoing high-end premium service and then how to sell those services and then of course market those services and then where to take your your own talent stack uh next what to add next there

you go and that's what a lot of people like to do i mean they they want to turn it into a speaker's gig so they can go speaking and everything else and all that good stuff what i only touched on on your book that people should know about at least tease out you know they gotta buy the book to read the good the deets as or what's something that they should they should tease out of it you're saying what what uh what haven't we covered or touched on that you maybe want to tease out in the book one of the reasons why people choose me over ghostwriting agencies that might be more famous or even ghostwriters who are older or who came recommended by from some new york times whatever best-selling author although i've done the the traditional bestsellers and those have

been a lot of fun the reason people come to me is because I'm also a certified hypnotist. I'm the only person in the world who is certified as both a ghostwriter and a hypnotist. Now, what those both seem to have in common is that they're both misunderstood. That's the first thing. So ghostwriting is, oh, okay, so I just pay somebody to write a book and then you put their name on it. Oh, okay, whatever. That's not what ghostwriting is. And hypnosis is not a person with a pendulum on stage making people bark like a dog. That's not what it is. That's more like an illusionist or a magician or, frankly, a street performer.

Hypnosis is the art and science of Belief Change. Professional hypnotists are familiar with the latest up-to-date research on psychology, specifically the study of the subconscious mind and how to work within it so that people don't have to use willpower or try to work really, really hard to create new habits for themselves, but about identity. How can someone, a hypnotist, alter someone's beliefs about themselves and about reality such that the new behaviors they want

come automatically? Oh, wow. And so hypnosis is usually used for basic stuff like, how do I get better sleep? How do I feel better about life? How do I work through all of the trauma that's come up from this broken relationship that

i'm enduring how do i lose weight questions that are really like that yeah that's what most hypnosis do is meet with people for those sorts of issues and the results are so good they call them fake and that's why hypnosis is known as pseudoscience to a lot of so-called institutional experts in the medical community. Because they say, oh, there's no way you can do that for someone after one session, two sessions. No way. And then they quietly book a session with a hypnotist to help them with their own issue, right? After what they tell their colleagues. But hypnosis and ghostwriting come together.

And I like to say that a book is a long form self hypnosis script. Oh, that's the best. That's the best perspective that I've come to. And so I teach how to apply the principles of subconscious persuasion into the form of a book or a course coaching, consulting, and so on so that you can create belief change, so that people will feel

motivated and inspired to read more of your book. Because the more of your book they read, the more likely they are to market the book for you. And the number one way to sell books is word of mouth marketing. So if you want to make a lot of money in life, you need to learn hypnosis. There is a one-to-one relationship between the two of those. And that's why you tend to see the richest people in any in the industry our students have hypnosis by the way there are a significant number of fortune 500 CEOs who are professional certified hypnotists and no one knows this by the way it's it's a best-kept secret secret it's the same thing with with billionaires with serial and entrepreneurs

rich as heck investors and people who are in the self-help and spirituality spaces who seem to create a new best-selling book every six months they're all professional certified hypnotists wow but they don't talk about that because they want to keep the secrets to themselves that's interesting i need to learn to be a hypnotist. But yeah, there's a lot of people that, I mean, you're looking to motivate people to do what they want done and be successful in it. So it makes a lot of difference in helping them achieve that. So do we want to talk about any of the services you provide on your website? Yeah, one of the most interesting ones is called Ghost Publishing.

And it's my own innovation that combines the best of traditional publishing and the best of self-publishing and creates a new hybrid of it, you might call it. So what people like about traditional publishing is the standardization, that there's a process, there's a checklist, there's what works and what doesn't work. There's what readers expect to see and what they don't expect to see. And so if you look at any old self-published book, it just looks like crap, frankly.

Most of them look like amateur jobs that were figured out on a weekend. Not a great presentation for someone who wants to be perceived as an authority. It's just not. But self-publishing does offer freedom, speed, much higher royalties, five bucks a copy sold versus five cents.

That's 100x different. If you have an audience, do you want five cents per copy sold or five bucks? You're not an idiot. Of course you're going to choose five bucks if you already have a big audience, right? So bringing those two together and then doing that on behalf of an author so they don't

have to figure it out themselves that's what ghost publishing is kind of like ghost writing but you know somebody else does all the way for publishing too do you recommend most people self-publish or try and get the you know the big publishers uh the auto book or show try and get them to to to pick you up i know that can be a whole different so i have ghost written independently published books for people who were previously traditionally published. Oh, wow. And I've ghostwritten traditionally published books

for people who were previously independently published. Oh. But it also depends on what, it depends on all of what the objective is. If you want to make as much money as possible, independent publishing, absolutely. Really? Wow. If you've already done the work of building up an audience,

independent publishing, absolutely. There are story after story after story from my clients from friends of mine who have been approached by the big five publishers and offered book deals for their second or third book after the first one or two just dominated as independent published books and they turned them down with a slap to the face and the door slamming in the back behind because the because the offers were so bad wow so bad um because what traditional publishing is is it's selling clout it's selling clout some people need clout though i'll put it this way so for example university professors who want to get published in their industry more in their domain more and more. They want to be chosen,

appointed to certain committees. They need like institutional backing. A public, a traditional publishing deal makes sense for them. It's going to be a loss of money. Most likely it's going to be an extraordinary expense in terms of time and energy and probably money that goes into traditional publishing. But to be able to say this such and such person is a,

is a guest lecturer at Ivy league school and has this MD and also an, and there's also a PhD and they're published by Simon and Schuster in the circles that that person inhabits status is more important than what success and so having status signifiers is a lot more important for them rather than having a book that a hundred thousand people have read so like this this is a good example so this is a cardiologist named dr philip ovadia it's the it's what's one two two major international book awards independently published and it sold 20,000 copies. And we did everything associated with this bad boy.

It looks like a real book, right? It's not something we threw together in Microsoft Word over the weekend. It looks like a real book. People think it's a real book. Real book, right? Like, oh, it looks like a traditionally published book. And we have clients whose books are in bookstores because we use the typical process same with mine like oh okay this looks like this looks like a real book real cover and everything

now something i do do with my book that i don't do with my clients because it's a little risky is i make several mistakes on purpose in my book really from typographical errors to formatting errors and whatnot because i understand that from the reputation management industry's perspective the 4.2 to 4.4 star average is supreme in terms of highest credibility 4.2 to 4.4 stars my book is so good it's that's going to be a problem i'm going to get mountains of five star reviews easily yeah so i need one star reviews reviews. And I want one-star reviews from people I don't want as clients. And what do people I don't want

as clients have in common? They care about image over substance. So they're going to point out a couple of egregious typos and mistakes that are in here on purpose. And they're going to take pictures of it and they're going to put them on one-star reviews on Amazon. And then what are they going to say? Look at this idiot. He doesn't know how to publish a real book.

And what's not going to be in the review, this is called the white space or the dog that's not barking. There's no negative reviews about the book's content itself. It'll just be idiots who are whining about typos. So I don't like as clients, people who care about image over substance. I can't have a single typo in my book. It doesn't have to be good.

I just don't want typos. So what I'm doing is I'm both attracting and i'm repelling so there will be people who read the one-star reviews and say really that's you took the time out of your data point out of typo nobody cares about typos nobody important cares about typos rather is is usually the perspective like show me a ceo who cares about typos and that's not a ceo they do not care whatsoever the ceo can send embarrassing emails but they're the ceo they can do whatever they want Like show me a CEO who cares about typos. And that's not a CEO. They do not care whatsoever. The CEO can send embarrassing emails, but they're the CEO.

They can do whatever they want. And that's who I want as clients, not their assistance, assistance, assistance intern who cares about proofreading. There you go. You know, now I feel better about how I don't have 100% five-star reviews.

Is part of the thing that if you, if, if people see 100% five-star reviews, they start thinking thing that if you, if, if people see 100% five-star reviews, they start thinking it's fake. The part of it. A hundred percent. Yes. Because it's easy to,

it's easy to gain the system and get fake five-star reviews. We see it all the time. I see it all the time on podcasts, man. I'll see that. I'll see like, and there's like little typos that they make in the five-star reviews that you can tell it was a bot that delivered it,

but I'll see podcasts where they paid a bot to to do their reviews and i'm like how do you have you know because we've been around for 14 years i'm like how do you have a new podcast you started like two or three months ago it has you know 38 episodes and it has 300 five-star reviews with no one bad one, right? Yeah, it's really sketchy. And so I need to maximize my credibility and plus it also makes for a hilarious story in teaching my clients.

Yeah. I do what I can to teach my clients a thing and then do the thing myself. And one of those things is doing what it takes to get negative reviews because in order to get attention command attention and presence online and have influence we need both negative and positive attention oh and people who are afraid of negative attention i don't want to work with those people i want them to buy my book first

change their mind because i'm a hypnotist and then they're going to hire me you see it's dangerous to get a sales call of hypnotist maybe i should get right a book that says you're gonna hate this book and give me bad reviews i don't know yes now speaking of speaking of that uh there has been this hilarious and fun story uh i must tell you about it you haven't seen it so far that is on this topic and that is relevant let's see if I can find yes here it is so it's gone viral this past week I'll show you I'll pull a picture of you a picture of it for you real quick

this right here come in and try the worst coffee one woman on TripAdvisor had in her life so that coffee shop has exploded in growth. They had to shut down that day because they ran out of literally everything. Really? They've gone viral on a bit of utter sensation.

And we've got people like lined up around the block to this day. That was weeks ago. Oh, my God. You've got to get once per use. You need to be cartoonishly fake that's the symbolism of mona lisa and the groucho marx glasses on the cover of the book must be cartoonishly fake people say huh that's fake look at that stupid yeah and then look closer and they go in my case oh wait a second all the negative reviews are people calling out typos no one's actually

dismissing the content of the book. That is what I am going for. It's an advanced technique and it's risky. So I don't do that for all the clients. But I have to practice what I'm going to preach or else I'll not preach it. There you go. Well, that makes sense. Like I say, I'm always suspect of if I go into Yelp or any other place

and it's 100% good reviews, I'm like, I don't know about that. And most of the negative reviews that I've had on my book or on the podcast, I usually like, I think the first ones are always like, I thought this guy was somebody else, you know? And,

uh, but it's never about the content. Like I had one that must've been for a competitor, but he wrote, he wrote Chris Foss is, you know, he's really bombastic and has a lot of energy. His reviews are good, but he has a little too much energy. And you're like, what?

It's like, but like you say, it doesn't attack the content. What else haven't we touched on that we want to tease out? It looks like our audience thought the picture was funny. Thanks, Steve Garfield. Yes, yes. Negative reviews are a thing you can use to market them. There's a

author by the name of David Goggins. He reads one-star reviews of his book called Can't Hurt Me. He records those and he publishes those videos of his. It's so wise to turn user-generated content both positive and negative into something that benefits you um i have a friend and client his name is scott adams he's the creator of the dilbert comic strip something that he points out

is that haters are really mascots and you got to give your mascot something out there and one thing that i do when i get mascots is i share their stuff or if they will post something that is bitter and angry and miserable uh what will uh i do i'll say thank you for sharing because now i'm reaching new people i otherwise would not have reached on the back of the book i have so i i think this is where there's like an overlap so this client dr philip avadia his book he authored the forward to my book yeah and he says what you want to do is to start internet firestorm that spreads your name farther than you could have on your own that's what the the so-good-they-call-you-a-fake concept is. It's not for beginners.

It's not for everyone. It's definitely not for grifters and schmucks. That's for sure. Because they don't have a system. They have a ghostwriter who makes up a system on the spot and then pretends it's real. Had a few of those. Wow. That's amazing, man.

That is freaking amazing uh you know it's these are these are really insightful now now you've made it so i sleep much better with my uh hateful reviews there's a podcast that i i like it's it's it's two gals and uh and i see them a lot on tiktok and they're like i'm sick of this is basically their oh i've seen that their thing and they're really funny but they will sit down and be like hey let's pick up the uh ugliest uh what is the what is the horriblest comment someone has written our haters have written and they'll read it and laugh about it and they turn into content and it's pretty brilliant yeah it really is. Yeah, definitely.

Both positive and negative reviews are excellent and 100% worth sharing, yes. I want you to hate me, people. There you go. Well, this has been really insightful to have you on the show, Joshua. Anything else you want to tease out before we go? At this moment, no, that pretty much covers all of it. So Good They Call You Fake will have come out June 15, 2023, we go at this at this moment no that pretty much covers covers all of it so good they call you fake will have come out june 15th 2023 and that that same week slash weekend the hardcover softcover

paperback and ebook and audiobook will all have been uh available that week there you go there you go check it out order up wherever fine books are sold so good they call you fake command attention monetize your talent stack and become the uncontested authority in your niche all that's good stuff you need because that's that's one of the biggest problems people do is they have great expertise they they may write a book but unless you get the marketing right no one cares i mean we get pitched a lot of books that way so uh for the show uh we get we hit and then we see the bad covers too. I mean, the cover is like, what's that old line? The cover sells the book or whatever.

I get the bad covers and you're just like, oh my God, dude, did your kid draw that? So there you go. Ironically, yes, the kid probably did. I've actually come to think of it. I've actually had people that on the show that I think have done that. So thank you very much, Joshua, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it.

Love to have you, Chris. Thank you. There you go. Thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss, youtube.com, 4chesschrisfoss, linkedin.com, 4chesschrisfoss, see the big LinkedIn newsletter over there and the big LinkedIn group. And also go support us on TikTok, where I'm just waiting for the haters to show up, I guess, at this point.

Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time. And that should have us out.