The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Stick it to Depression: Get Your Life Back, Naturally by Dr Alexander Joannou

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

Stick it to Depression: Get Your Life Back, Naturally by Dr Alexander Joannou Stickittodepression.com ‘I felt a total lack of joy in my life. Sometimes I would feel like I wanted to cry for no reason. I felt broken. I wasn't able to sleep. I wasn’t able to focus. I felt strange inside.’ If you can relate to these comments, you’re not alone. More than 300 million people worldwide are living with depression today. But what if it doesn’t have to be that way? Stick it to Depression – Get Your Life Back, Naturally is a comprehensive guide to depression – what it is, how it’s diagnosed, and how it’s treated. In this forthright and meticulously researched book, Dr Alex Joannou lays bare the history, science, and misconceptions surrounding depression, and demonstrates how Transformational Acupuncture, a 21st century development of the traditional Chinese technique, could be the much-needed solution to this global challenge. Based on his personal and professional experiences as both a GP of nearly 40 years and an acupuncture practitioner of 20 years, Dr Alex Joannou shows how Transformational Acupuncture offers patients a safe and effective method to complement the management of their depression, anxiety and stress, and getting their lives back on track. A ground-breaking book full of the latest science, case studies, and FAQs, Stick it to Depression – Get Your Life Back, Naturally is an essential, accessible, and solution-oriented guide for anyone experiencing depression – and wants to do something about it. Biography Dr Alexander Joannou As a conjoint lecturer with UNSW and an RACGP accredited supervisor, I’ve been training medical students, International Medical Graduates, and General Practice Registrars for more than 20 years to help people achieve that true feeling of peace that comes with healing. Along with that, I’ve learned a lot about the human psyche in my 40-year medical career as the Practice Principal of Northside Health (a 12-doctor medical center).

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com.

Welcome to Chris Voss Show. Welcome to Chris Voss Show. I don't know why anybody claps for my horrible impression of an opera, an opera artist. I don't know what the hell the language is. An opera artist. I just made that up. So there you go. New words you would learn on the Chris Voss Show. This is why you tune in, of course.

But as always, we have the most amazing guests, the Chris Voss Show family. The family loves you, but doesn't judge you, at least not as harshly as your mother-in-law. And we have an amazing guest on the show we're going to be talking to today. He's going to talk about how to deal with depression and other different health ailments through different medical procedures. And some of his learned things in some of his books that he's put out, etc., etc. But in the meantime, as we tease that out to you,

that, of course, is set up for the shaming of the guilting of the plugs. Please refer the show to your family and friends. Have you seen them lately? They need the show. Like when you really look deep into their eyes and their soul, and you think, you know, you'd be a whole lot smarter if you listened to Chris Voss' show like I do. And so tell them, go to itunes.com for it says Chris Voss.

Give us a five-star review over there. Go to Goodreads.com for it says Chris Voss. LinkedIn.com for it says Chris Voss. YouTube.com for it says Chris Voss. Did I say that? And TikTok at Chris Voss1. And then when you sit around them with the holiday tables coming up with the Thanksgiving and Christmas, you'll be able to talk about

you won't be talking about politics and all that ugly stuff that makes people angry and fight at those family reunions. You'll be able to talk about hey, did you see that really cool and interesting person that was at the Chris Voss show? Yeah, I did. And then you'll just have a wonderful holiday. That's guaranteed. Wait.

The lawyers are yelling at me from the corner. I can't say that. Anyway, guys, thanks for coming by the show. We have an amazing gentleman on the show. He's the author of several books. His latest book is Stick It to Depression. Get Back Your Life Naturally. That came out April 13th, 2021. Dr. Alexander Joannou is on the show with us today, and he's going to be talking to us about his latest book and everything that went into it, and he's going to imparting us some of his knowledge. He is the founder of Transformational Acupuncture, and he's learned in all things acupuncture and some of the medical aspects of it. He's a conjoint lecturer with UNSW and RACGP accredited supervisor. He's been training medical students, international medical graduates and

general practice registrars for more than 20 years to help people achieve that true feeling of peace that comes with healing. I like healing. Healing is always good. I don't like the pain of injury. So I'm into healing. I'm into that. That's my new hobby, healing. I'm 55. There's a lot of damage that needs healing.

And along with that, he's learned about the human psyche and his 40-year medical career as the practice principal of Northside Health at 12 Doctor Medical Center. And his practice has led him to additional training in nutritional the practice principal of Northside Health, a 12-doctor medical center. And his practices led him to additional training in nutritional and environmental medicine, counseling and cognitive behavior therapy. Sounds like something I need. And together with over 300,000 patient consultations, including performing over 35,000 acupuncture treatments. He's witnessed firsthand the complex interrelationship

between the mind, the body, and spirit. Welcome to the show, Doctor. How are you? Very well, thanks, Chris. There you go. All the way from Australia. Is that correct, sir? Yeah, just outside of Sydney, a place called Coffs Harbour. There you go. As they like to say, the down under. Where does the down under come from? Why do they call it the down under? What's that about?

You only have to look at a globe of the world, I guess. Isn't that kind of rude? Isn't it kind of rude that we always assume that North America is up here and Australia is down here? Maybe it's the other way. Maybe if you flip it the other way, you know. I mean, you guys do have your own

exactly you know and that may explain I don't know your Tim Tams that you guys have over there give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs please sir stick it to depression.com there you go

it's very easy to remember stick it to stickittodepression.com. There you go. It's very easy to remember, stickittodepression.com. I wanted to say the, stickittodepression, but stickittodepression.com. And what motivated you to want to write this book? Give us a 30,000 overview of the book and what you do. Yeah, well, it's a long story but um i've been a gp um family physician for um 40 years now and um it all started because you know i was trained at sydney university and i thought i understood how the body works and so forth because I'd excelled in my studies there. And that went along, cruised along until about after about 15 years I developed Crohn's disease.

Oh, wow. Which is, for those who don't know, it's quite a nasty disease of the bowel, the small intestine. And within a week of diagnosis, i had to have two feet of intestine cut out i had two four inch abscesses in my abdomen oh wow so i i'd lost um about 20 kilos in the process and i wasn't feeling so well but uh i asked the surgeon after you know just before discharge from hospital uh what diet should i follow and he said uh eat anything you like you're cured so i thought you're beauty the trouble was within six weeks of

the operation i started getting symptoms of the cranes disease again oh no yeah so that really spurred me into looking at alternative therapies, which was a journey through looking at, you know, megadoses of vitamins and various herbs and ultimately to acupuncture. Was the alternative them taking out more of the bowel? Yes, I was threatened about a year later with further surgery. Oh, wow. But when I got on to, at that stage, Shiatsu therapy, which is acupressure I suppose you'd call it, treatment, that

that, well, within the first session of one hour my symptoms disappeared. There you go. Which blew my mind. Wow. And that was under acupressure and then you discovered, and you moved acupuncture yes there you go and yeah so that was back in about uh 96 and um yeah so i've come a long way uh since then um basically i've been well ever since that is wow that is awesome that is that is and have you found that you've been able to help other people that have similar sort of traits uh yeah absolutely wow that's crazy and um yes i'm not on any medication for it anymore i haven't been on

any medication for over 20 years 20 years for acupuncture. Wow. So would you say that most of your patients are, you know, walking around you on pins and needles? Sorry, I had to do that joke. So talk to me about this book and what's inside of it and kind of give us a spin on it. You have two books and my understanding is one book, Sickness to Depression, another tool in your doctor's bag was targeted towards people in the medical field. Yeah, to help them understand how acupuncture can help their patients. There you go. And this one was kind of more, this newer one was kind of more for the general public? Yes. I've been told it's

quite readable and basically relate this sort of stuff about how i came across acupuncture as a help and um i i'd be i first learned acupuncture in about 1998 and um but it was around in 2010 when i came across a method of acupuncture that helps the mental state. And I realized that that ultimately was where the real power lies because it's easy to try and paper over problems by making you feel better in terms of symptoms of whatever problem you've got. But the deeper level of healing, which you spoke about,

comes at a much deeper level of mind body and spirit and um and i found that this acupuncture was doing it um initially a first particular case i'd been telling my wife for some time that who's also a medical doctor in the practice that a lot of the patients i were treating for whatever medical problem they had said that they felt a whole lot better and that they weren't having arguments at home and problems at work wasn't getting to them so my wife kept telling me I should you know look into this and sort out what's going on to prove that it works and I thought I don't need to prove it works. I know it works. So like most guys, I ignored my wife's advice. But then I had one particular patient who was seeing me.

She was in her early 60s for osteoarthritis. And her arthritis had got bad enough that another doctor in the practice had put her on opioids opioids you know in those oxycontin type stuff oh yeah and um and she didn't want to be on that because that's as you know is to be quite addictive and the test tends to dull the mind and so on within uh three weeks of starting the acupuncture on her, she was able to get off those, and that was really good. But I kept going to see how good we could really get her feeling. And after she had been having acupuncture for about a month or two,

she asked if she could stop her antidepressants. And apparently she had been taking antidepressants for 16 years. Holy crap. Yes. antidepressants and apparently she'd been taking antidepressants for 16 years holy crap yes and i thought well maybe okay let's i assessed her from the medical viewpoints and demonstrated with the das which is a depression anxiety stress score that she wasn't actually depressed at the time so gradually withdrew her antidepressants and um and she was fine and not only fine she actually said that she felt a sense of joy and happiness and it was particularly typified by one incident which was um it was just approaching christmas and some christmas carolers came to her door and started singing Christmas carols and she

burst into tears but it was tears of joy and happiness because she could really feel the joy in her heart and she said she hadn't felt that for so many years that she had been as sort of like a numb state wow so you so you find it helps uh a lot, the book you targeted towards depression. Yeah. So that was where I thought, okay, this is a real meeting a real need because antidepressants, so it can help severe depression. There's still no evidence that it really helps mild to moderate depression, which is what the vast majority of people have. Wow. depression, which is what the vast majority of people have. And because it's working basically by tending to numb the emotions, which is really good if you're severely depressed, it tends to decrease that depressed feeling.

But on the other hand, it tends to inhibit laughter and joy and just exuberance. There you go. So does it take a lot of sessions to break through with that? You said with your Crohn's issue, it's fairly quick. Yeah, that's right. I mean, usually within eight weeks, just treating once a week, most people feel better, and some people feel extremely good in that time.

There you go. Usually by the end of the eight weeks you know if it's going to work for you or not and it doesn't matter as i say whether you've been on antidepressants for years or whether you haven't been on any antidepressants it still seems to work there you go so i mean acupressures or acupuncture acupressure has probably been around for eons of time isn't it my? To my understanding. Yeah, about 2,000 or 3,000 years. Uh-huh. It's kind of probably, you know, one of those things that must work.

It's been around forever. It's kind of like stoicism or old wisdom, you know? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I used to deal with depression with vodka, but that didn't seem to be any better. Yes, well, that has problems in itself. That's been around for eons at times as well, I think.

I don't know. The side effects of that are much worse. That's very true. I totally agree with you. And so you delve into this medicinal art. And some people's perception is that that feels or looks like it hurts. Like I'm one of those. Yeah, I understand that.

I'm one of those people who's not into needles. Yes. It's amazing because a lot of people that I see, because I'm a doctor, I see people who wouldn't normally go to an acupuncturist. And I sort of have a discussion with them and talk them into trying it. And I say, well, let me just put one needle in and see how you go. And as soon as I put it in, they say, oh, is that all there is to it? So that's a big surprise for people because it looks far worse than it feels.

There you go. A lot of people fall asleep during a treatment. There you go. Sounds like my prom night. So there you go. I my prom night uh so uh there you go i'm not sure what that means uh and depression you found this really uh works well in in uh in healing people and getting people engaged in in overcoming it um why why do you think it's it's this is better i mean this is going to seem, but I want to hear your words on this. Why is it better for acupuncture to be used over, say, Western medicine,

where we just throw the drugs at it? Well, of course, it can be used together. But the big advantage of acupuncture is it helps shift the blocked emotions. People seem to store emotions in their body. Oh, really? And under Chinese theory, it's quite acceptable that various organs are associated with various emotions. And like sadness and grief is stored in the lungs,

and anger and frustration is stored in the liver. And if you work on those points, you can release those emotions, which the thing is what we tend to do in the west is suppress our emotions we don't want to express things because we're told it's naughty to do that and as a kids you know it's like right starts back in childhood where you're taught to suppress your emotions. There you go. So is that part of the chakras? And I was just going to say, too, I used to store, when my vodka drinking was going on, there was a lot of anger stored in my liver.

But is that where the chakras are, which you were talking about there? Yeah, well, that's because the chakra system is developed by the Hindus, which is in India, and in parallel with the Chinese system in China. And there didn't seem to be any real communication between the two systems of medicine over the 3,000 years. And back in 1997, an acupuncturist recognised that certain acupuncture points actually correspond to various chakras.

And therefore, you can manipulate chakra energy through acupuncture. So you do two lanes. You've got the book that tries to help the general public be aware of acupuncturists and stuff. Can the general public interact with different variations on your website and offerings there? Yes, if they click on the Start Here button, they can communicate directly with me. There you go. And then you also have a thing for practitioners to be able to adapt

and learn this sort of area. Yeah, well, the system itself, if you're already an acupuncturist practicing acupuncture, it's quite easy to pick up this system. And I teach it sort of, and I now teach it online as a weekly session. And, sorry? No, go ahead. I was going to say I teach it as a weekly session and by the end of, well, even the first night session, they can go out and treat somebody starting straight away. Can you treat yourself with acupuncture? That's a bit tricky.

And you can't probably get to your back. I have been named to when I played on the soccer field to pull out some needles to needle my knee or something but oh there you go there you go i know um the older you get the more you have different pains and different things and it's interesting how the body works you know years ago decades ago i used to have to go to massage every weekend i was running a lot of companies and there was a lot of stress and i had to go have a two-hour uh massage and if I didn't get that two-hour massage and they would explain the chakras to me, they'd be like, you're going to be a bear for the rest of the week and be ornery and

miserable and stressed out, which is pretty much my current condition at all times. So this is pretty interesting. What do you find most people, what are some misnomers or myths that people have about needles other than the fact that there's needles involved? Yeah, that is a big factor for a lot of people. But as I say, just try it and one needle and you'll be convinced it's nothing like you're expecting. The needle itself actually is blunt on the end. It's rounded and fine as a human hair. So when you insert the needle,

it tends to push blood vessels and nerves to one side or the other, which is why you can leave the needle in for 40 minutes, take it out, and there's no bleeding. Ah, ah. So it's not like we're stabbing people to death and they're no bleeding. Ah. Ah. It's not like we're stabbing people to death and they're just going to... No, no. Whereas like if you have a blood test for example or a vaccine

the needle has a beveled edge. It's sort of beveled sharp so it cuts through the tissue. There you go. Whereas this doesn't. And so you counsel these practitioners on how to do it or how to do it better. Now, is there a specialized method that you do that's different than what maybe other people do in the field?

Yeah, yeah. Well, as I say, it is based on chakra energy. And I've developed a questionnaire to assess which chakras the person has issues with. And from that, I use various combinations of needles in the form of a pattern, in the form of sacred geometry to trigger the chakra into shifting. There you go. And so people can add this to their current lineup of maybe health resources. Do you find that a lot of people that come to you are people working in the

holistic area of medical stuff? Yeah. I've helped a lot of massage therapists and, and other medical doctors as well. The medical students that come to my practice, you usually get offered a session to experience it for themselves. There you go. And so are you doing a lot of online teaching where you're, you know,

like we're in this COVID world where everything is done on Zoom and all that sort of good stuff? Yes. If you go to my website, there's the details there. There you go. There you go. Do you do any localized thing where people fly out to you there in Australia? Well, I'm in Coffs Harbour, but on our website, I'm developing a list of practitioners who've studied under me. There you go.

It's a list of certified practitioners. So hopefully we'll get somebody in your area soon. There you go. I need as much acupuncture as I possibly can. I need, you know, here around the house, we don't have acupuncture as close by, so I just use a hammer to set myself in the head. That seems to be working for a while. I don't know. I can't feel my legs.

I was going to say, I might forget about everything else. That's true. My psychiatrist is recommending the frontal lobotomy, so I think that's what we're doing next week. So when people see me smiling on the show and drooling down the side of my mouth, well, it'll be like the last 15 years of the show. So there you go. When you help people with depression,

do you find there's any certain thing that you help people with, like any certain target of depression that helps the most, or does it help all the different spectrums of variations of depression? I know there's ADHD and there's, you know, there's a bunch of stuff. Yeah. It's more in the mild to moderate range. I mean, I have treated some patients with severe depression and who have improved quite dramatically, but it does take a lot longer.

So it takes some sort of commitment. But also it helps people with PTSD are helped. Really? Yeah, yeah. Wow. And various phobias, like claustrophobia or agoraphobia, that sort of thing. Now, if i have a phobia against needles because i actually have this phobia does that it probably helps fix that phobia for me

well it will once you have the needle and think oh there you go that's what the nurse keeps telling me every time i get the vaccine but i don't know but no i i was it's's much less pain than that. Yeah, because you're just jamming it all in there like they do at the doctor's office. You're just giving a little pinprick. So there you go. But that's interesting, PTSD. We've had a lot of people on the show who suffered PTSD, a lot of folks in the military. I think there's talk among psychologists that people experience PTSD with trauma,

childhood trauma or trauma that happens in their life that can really shock the brain and stuff. And so you find that that will help release that and deal with that, huh? Yeah. And is it really, so it's really based on that science of we store a lot of pain in the body and a lot of our mental pain maybe in the body. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. There you go.

There you go. And yeah, well, this is amazing. I mean, especially where you had Crohn's disease and you got over it. Any other diseases that you found that you've helped overcome or maybe improved the condition of the patient? Asthma and high fever. Really? Asthma too? Wow. Holy crap.

My mom suffers from really bad asthma. That would be ideal. I know some people that have asthma. They usually have some trauma with their childhood and stuff. They say that sometimes people with asthma they have overbearing parents that are just really micromanagers overbearing put a lot of fear into the

child and so the child ends up with a lot of anxiety that turns into asthma at least that's some theories that I've heard uh i remember growing up with uh one of our one of our uh uh boy scouts that was in my troop had really bad asthma and he was he you know but he had the sort of parents that would never let him out of the house that you know they barely let him come out to the boy scouts with us and uh they controlled like everything he did how he did it and he was terrorized to do just about anything. And we're like, and then we told us he had asthma. I was, we're like, yeah, you probably have high anxiety.

Somehow we knew that at the time. I don't know. We were just kind of aware of it, even though it was the seventies. And so, you know, that, that kind of makes sense. People store anxieties maybe in the body too, along with pain. It's all to do with, well, a large part of it is to do with the autonomic nervous system, the sympathetic and the parasympathetic systems.

And if you're constantly in a state of fear or fight or flight type thing, the sympathetic nerves are firing in excess. And it's the parasympathetic nervous system which enables you to relax and to nourish and and build up whereas a sympathetic nervous system is all about preparing you to run away or fight literally within three seconds of a scare like if some guys coming out with clubs threatening to hit you within three seconds your liver releases clotting factors to help your blood clot quicker so that if you if you cut or bleed the bleeding stops quicker i mean that and and your blood pressure jumps up because it's pumping extra blood to the muscles carrying oxygen and nutrients to the muscles to help you run or fight.

And it tends to shut down the signals to the stomach and intestines, so they tend to switch off. And to the reproductive system, so that switches off because that's the last thing you want to be thinking about when you're confronted by an angry mob. Yeah, you don't want to be sitting there going, hmm, I wonder if I should do something about this angry mob or this crazy guy coming at me. Yeah, you've just got to act. And that's what it's designed for. And as soon as the emergency is over, the sympathetic nerves switch off.

But the thing is nowadays, yeah, you get stuck in a traffic jam and you're tooting the horn. I went to New York recently and I couldn't believe how much all the time people are blowing their horns and nobody's moving, but they're all tooting away on their horns. And that just raises everybody's blood pressure and gets the sympathetic nerves going and you think you're going to be late for work or you haven't finished or met your targets or whatever.

And so if your blood pressure is constantly elevated and your clotting factors are constantly being released, then you're more likely to get a stroke or a heart attack, for example. There you go. You know, that makes sense because, you know, we saw that with the COVID crisis and the fact that there was so much inflammation in the body where the body was trying to fight off the virus. And since it hadn't a blueprint yet on how to deal with this new virus,

it was over-inflaming the body. And by over-inflaming, it was by over-inflaming it was damaging it was damaging organs because you know there's a certain point where you know it well it's a well it's a it's responsible for your body to defend itself yeah um it can it can go overboard you know i mean we see that with adhd or you've got too much uh things going on in your brain it overloads the brain yes um i was just recently reading david goggins second book uh name escapes me i think it's never never something um but he was talking about how uh a point where he got pulmonary pulmonary and edema and it's a condition where the fluid builds up in the lungs. It happens

a lot with people like him who are Navy SEALs. In fact, many die during training because of it because the training is so grueling and what they do in the water. There's a very hard hell week that they go through to become

Navy SEALs in the US. There are people who literally die in the training because they'll get this lung disease, this pulmonary edema. And he finds that a lot of SEALs will have the issues throughout their lifetime, also issues with their knees because they're just overworking the body. Yeah. And it carries that stuff. So it makes sense.

Yeah, definitely. the body yeah and in it in it carries that stuff so that makes sense yeah definitely and part of the training that i teach acupuncturists is certain points that can help switch off the sympathetic nerves and switch on the parasympathetic nerves so most people leave their treatment feeling a lot more relaxed and calmer than when they walk in. So the effect can be that quick. There you go. So any ways people can heal and everything else. So I guess you recommend people pick up your book and then maybe try and find a local practitioner. Is there a way that people can look up a directory of folks that have worked with you? As I say, I have a my website. I'm on my website. A list of certified practitioners.

Okay. So you can find a local practitioner that has worked with your method and then see if you can utilize them and all that good stuff, and then you'll keep adding to the website as things go. So what's the best way people can onboard with you or get to know you better, reach out to you? Yeah, well, if they click on Start here, I'll reply to their email. There you go.

There you go. We're happy to connect. So what haven't we covered that we should talk about that we haven't touched on? There's a million things. I guess one thing is actually, which you probably appreciate, the World Health Organization's definition of health, which is a state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being, not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.

And that sounds fantastic. In a room of about 100 people, I asked, who at the moment is in a state of complete physical, mental and social wellbeing? And I think four people put up their hands. And they were lost. Yeah. So on that basis, I mean, you know, that's obviously the ideal,

but the thing is, even today, the training of doctors is to look for disease and infirmity. They're not trained to help assist people getting to a state of joy and happiness. And so the whole of the focus, especially with depression, where there's no specific blood test or X-ray you can do that will show this person's depressed it's based on a questionnaire and the questionnaire that's commonly used has no questions about

happiness and joy it's all negative stuff about depression so and and if you score less than four you're said to be not depressed so So as far as the doctor's concerned, if you have an absence of depression, everything's fine. But the absence of depression does not equal the presence of happiness. There's a world of difference between the two. There you go. You know, this is really interesting. I've got a couple of friends, actually, that were in the military

that had PTSD and they struggled with it. I'll have to make a recommendation to them to check it out and see if it can get some support there. So I'm glad you've come up with this. This is really interesting. I mean, it's just amazing you overcame the Crohn's disease and different things and, you know, anything that can help people. And I know that sometimes, you that sometimes you go to the doctors and they're just like, well, let's slice and dice you up into little pieces

and I'm sure you'll feel better then. Or here, take these 50 pills that will interact with you. Here in America, we're really big on that. We're like, here's a bunch of pills and then half of them have horrible side effects and the other half will misinteract with each other and actually make things worse. And then you're going to have to take a third pill

to counteract the two pills you're taking. Yes, that's exactly right. It's all too common, actually. We actually have commercials on TV that are like, hey, are you taking that one pill? You notice you've got side effects? Or if you take it with another pill, you notice you have side effects?

We have this new pill that helps counter the side effects of that. And then, I don't know if you ever watched American TV, but then they read off like a half an hour list of all the potential side effects of any drug. You know, it's like, hey, do you suffer from depression? If you take this pill, you won't have depression anymore. But you might have a colonoscopic bleeding uh liver disease uh your kidney might just wander out of your body and uh you'll probably see uh everything in double for the rest of your life but it will fix your depression

and you're just like uh it's not good it's not good. The thing is people want a quick fix and, you know, things like depression, it's often a lifetime of learning and you've got to unlearn bad habits or bad ways of thinking to improve your life and that takes effort. There you go. But at least with the acupuncture, the effect, the calming and relaxing effect can work from the very first treatment. So that helps give the person hope and motivation to keep coming back. Well, hopefully that's what we've done. We've given some listeners hope out there.

And their practitioners, they can reach out to you. If they're people in the, you know, just average everyday person, They can grab your book and they can maybe seek out some local help. Anything further you want to plug before we go out? Oh, no, that's all. You know, I'm just looking out particularly for any acupuncturists who are interested in learning this method. I've trained some Canadian acupuncturists, but no American acupuncturists at this point.

Maybe we need more of that. We're too much in steeped in America into this whole pill popping culture. And, you know, just do surgery. And, you know, I've learned a lot about holistic health. I mean, just eating better sometimes. Maybe getting off the vodka. That can help too, from what I understand. Yeah, I got off that and my body is like, thank you. Thank you very much.

We're going to treat you better and we like you better now that you got off that booze. And now if I can just get off the heroin and meth, I'll be fine. No, I'm just kidding people. I've never done that. Don't do that. Don't do that. The attorney says we have to say that even though there's jokes. So thank you very much, doctor, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Give us your dot com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yes. Stick it to depression.com. There you go, folks.

Let's stick it to depression once and for all. I'm for that. I suffered depression most of my life. So there you go. Thanks, Simonis, for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4ChurchXFast, YouTube.com, 4ChurchXFast, LinkedIn.com. for depression most of my life. So there you go. Thanks so much for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Fortress Chris Foss,

youtube.com, Fortress Chris Foss, linkedin.com, Fortress Chris Foss, and Chris Foss 1 on TikTok. Thanks so much for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe.

We'll see you guys next time. Thanks, Chris.