The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Stoic Empathy: The Road Map to a Life of Influence, Self-Leadership, and Integrity by Shermin Kruse

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

Stoic Empathy: The Road Map to a Life of Influence, Self-Leadership, and Integrity by Shermin Kruse Correct the power imbalances in your work and life with a science-backed practice that combines the rigor of Stoic philosophy with the relational impact of empathy. Stoicism combined with empathy may sound like a contradiction in terms. But when these seemingly opposing forces are harnessed together, they have the power to change your life. From surviving missile attacks and political oppression in Iran to leading high-stakes legal teams and negotiations in corporate America, Shermin Kruse's journey fuels her mission to merge empathy and stoicism as tools for navigating power, justice, and human connection in every facet of life. In this eye-opening book, she offers you this radical perspective shift—anchored in up-to-the-minute research—to help you navigate life's challenges with power and principles. We often think of empathy as an emotional stance: we feel what someone else is feeling. But Kruse outlines a form of empathy that’s based in cognition, not emotion—a way for us to understand what the other person is thinking and feeling while keeping a distance from their feeling state—and shows us how we can strategically maneuver our level of engagement from “emotional empathy” to “cognitive empathy” in different circumstances. Then she utilizes Stoic philosophy and modern science to outline the how of emotional regulation and control. The bridge she builds between Stoicism and empathy gives us the knowledge and discipline we need to: Calmly assess the power dynamics of any situation Understand and manage our own emotions as well as the emotions of others Defuse danger and turn conflict into connection Skillfully steer a challenging conversation toward the result we want Whether you're a leader striving to succeed in your role with integrity, an educator seeking to guide curious minds with compassion, a parent nurturing resilience in your children, or simply facing a personal or professional crossroads, Stoic Empathy is an essential toolkit for negotiating success in every area of your life.

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Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, it's Voss here from the ChrisVossShow.com. Beautiful. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the big show. As always, the Chris Voss Show is a family that loves you but doesn't judge you at least not as harshly as the rest of your family members because we're just kind of nice that way. Plus, we're just trying to prove everyone's gosh darn life. For over 16 years and 23 inter-episodes of being in The Chris Voss Show, the CEOs,

the billionaires, the White House presidential advisors, the Pulitzer Prize winners, all the most brightest people in the world who come to you and share their stories of life, their journeys, their cathartic moments, the lessons they've learned so that you can make your life better. Because if you don't, damn it, why are you listening to The Chris Voss Show anyway for the comedy? The joke's not that funny, folks. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily

reflect the opinions of the host or The Chris Voss Show. Some guests to the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Anyway, we have an amazing young lady on the show today. We're going to be talking to her about her insightful new book, some of the work that she does, et cetera, et cetera, and how to make your life better. Her new book is out called Stoic Empathy, the Roadmap to a Life of Influence, Self-Leadershiphip and integrity. And it is actually out April 8th, 2025, but you won't know that if you're watching this five to 10 years from now on YouTube.

It'll still be out. Hopefully the world will still be, you know, as an hit by a meteor. Charmaine Cruz. Did I get that right? You were really, really, really close. I want to give you, I want to give you 100%, but I'm going to give you a 99. Pete Give us the correct pronunciation of your first name, if you would. Shermin. Pete Ah, you say it so much more beautiful. What's the origin of that? Shermin It's a Persian name, but I'll tell you, Chris, my parents made it up. Pete Oh, did they really?

Shermin Yeah, they really did. It was a special torture. They decided to choose a name that doesn't exist in my native tongue and is not pronounceable in any other language. So that's been fun for me for 47 years. Pete You know, at least a unicorn. Kirsten Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll take it. Pete How important to you is share through the show so that we can confuse the audience

and make them think that I actually have Cher on the show. Kirsten I got you, babe. We're all good. Pete Can you sing Turn Back Time? Kirsten I can, but then your eardrums would blow. have Cher on the show. I got you, babe. We're all good. Can you sing Turn Back Time? No. I can, but then your eardrums would blow. That girl watching Cher. So, Aghempathy is the name of her book and it'll be available. You can pre-order it now.

She is the epitome of a global Renaissance woman having lived several lives through the globe as a child in Iran, a teenager in Canada, and a lawyer in the United States. This poet, mother, painter, model, photographer, and human rights advocate finally found her true home in Chicago. Who knew? Windy City. Through it all, her truest gift was writing and telling stories, and she now unveils Butterfly Stitching, her stunning debut novel, A Gripping Tale of Oppression and Redemption, Obsession, Love, Loss and Authenticity. So that's for a prior book.

How many books do you have, Cher? Cher Meehan I have three books out, but they're all weirdly different from one another. The newest one is a nonfiction, more of a mix between philosophy and neuroscience. The first one was a novel, the middle one is a boring textbook that is published by Northwestern where I teach. So, yeah. Pete I'm sure it's not boring. I'm sure it's interesting. Cheryl Kane It's a little boring. It's global transactions

and regulation. I don't know how to make that exciting. Pete So, welcome to the show. Give us any dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Cheryl Kane Absolutely. Feel free to find me at my impossible to pronounce and spell name, CheramineCruz.com, very easy to pronounce. Or you can just Google Stoic Empathy and I will pop up, I promise. Pete So, give us a 30,000 overview, what's inside your new book?

Kirsten Oh, my goodness. Wow, 30,000 overview. Okay, so the book is essentially concerning how to gain power in this world, utilizing age-old principles of stoicism to gain control over yourself, but I've modernized them with neuroscience research and backup, and then also utilizing ancient ideas, continuing to the modern day, of strategic empathy in order to be able to influence others. So you're controlling yourself, you're controlling others, and you're proceeding in a way that allows you to stay true to your own values and maintain your integrity while

gaining power in the world. Pete Slauson Gaining power! world? KB And gaining power. KS Well, I'll stay true to your values and having integrity. RG My values are ultimate power and world domination. KS You're not the only one, my friend. RG You're going to have to fight everybody for it. So I'm a big purveyor of meditations, Marcus Aurelius, studying Stoicism, all the Stoics, hepatitis, all those folks. What gave you the idea for this

book? What was the proponent that made you go, I need to write this book about this stuff? Kirsten Oh, my goodness. Okay, so I grew up in Iran and growing up in Iran, I actually grew up and this definitely dates me, but I was born in 77. So I grew up in the 80s. And just to put some context for you there, Chris, the Iranian revolution happened in 1979. So the 80s were the immediate aftermath of the Islamic revolution and the oppression that followed that. And they were also coincided with a very, very bloody war. The Iran Iraq war took place during that time, and there was about a million people killed. And to give you some context again, there's 40 million people in Iran at the time. So one out

of every 40 people was killed. So this is what's going on in the background of my childhood as I'm growing up. And I am learning the difference between who I really am and who I need to pretend to be in order for me and my family to be safe in the regime. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was a wild ride. As I grew up, I immigrated to Canada and then the United States, which ultimately became my home. And I started to study debate and then philosophy and then neuropsychology, and I began to dig deeper into understanding human nature. What actually makes us who we really are? And how do we get in touch with that version, that version of ourselves who is maybe authentic to us, but is also authentic to who we want to be?

Then I went on to study law and advocacy, and I practiced law for complex commercial litigation and corporations for almost 20 years. And in that context, it was how do I understand my jury and how do I understand my judge and how do I understand my boardroom and my client and how do I get ahead in this world? And after a while, you know, I didn't accomplish world domination, but I was able to buy my freedom. So, I can just do what I love now, which is teach and write.

And so, this topic of stoic empathy, it's really been in many ways my entire essence as a human being from the time I was a child to today. Pete Yeah. Stoicism, do you want to define what stoicism means in your understanding of it? Absolutely. Stoicism in modern day vernacular would just be called emotional regulation. So there's this association of stoicism as being a complete and utter deprivation of emotions, which is incorrect.

It's actually just being in control of your emotions, right? You want to feel what you want to feel and express how you want to express it at any given time, in any given place, in front of any given person. And that actually enables you to lead a very emotionally rich life while still making sure that your emotions are serving you in the way that you think is appropriate. Definitely. I mean, it's a level of emotional intelligence, I think, in reaching that pinnacle of stoicism and being able to manage your things and not be reactive. You know, people always ask me, what's the difference between someone who lives in logic and reason over emotionalism is their non-reactivity. Stoicism is not about reacting to stuff, reacting to your emotions blindly.

It's about having a logic and reason. I always call stoicism the owner's manual to being a man. It's very masculine. And it's really when it comes down to it as a man, an owner's manual for men, women can use it too, of course. But it really is everything Marcus Aurelius talks about is really a Bible to manhood. And a lot have been struggle with being, you know, not in their masculine nowadays, they're feminine in their emotion, and they don't have that emotional regulation. And so,

you can see it in how people react. I mean, it's, it's one thing if you react, you know, if some, if a driver cuts me off and I about, if I get killed, I might yell out and be like, fuck, you know, and it's a little hard to react. It's a little hard to emotionally control when you're in fight or flight, die or don't mode, you know, you got to swerve the car to avoid the crash. But you know, beyond that, you know, it's just that, you know, okay, that moment's over. We don't have to embellish it. We don't have to deal with it. It is what it is.

You know, you'll hear that a lot with people in Stoicism. It is what it is. That's a phrase that a lot of people accept. But mixing Stoicism with empathy, per the title of your book, that's a bit more detailed or nuanced or there's a lot more that comes with it than just being stoic and empathy. How do you see those two mixing in your research and what you talk about in the book? Kirsten, and this won't surprise you, you said some really interesting things that I'd love

to just highlight for the audience. So what I would say about stoicism is it certainly is a substantial component of manhood, but also of adulthood and personhood. I would say, I think generally men tend to have a harder time staying in control of their anger and this is just very generalization. Women tend to have a hard time staying in control of their anger, and this is just a generalization, women tend to have a hard time staying in control of their sorrow. And so our reactions to those emotional aspects are different and our ability to regulate

them is different, but it is 100% absolutely essential for any person who wants to live a rich life where they can be in control of themselves. And what you said, Chris, is you want to, it's not about being reactive, but it's about being active. So really what we have here is imagine on a physical plane, imagine the stimuli, right? And then imagine the response. And in between the stimuli and the response,

there's you, right? You exist, right? Obviously there's a lot of other influencing factors. For instance, you just identified whether you're in fight or flight, right? There's a lot of other influencing factors, but you exist in this space. It is called will, your willpower, your ability to exert yourself in between the stimuli and the response. And what you brought up about screaming fuck when you're in traffic and somebody cuts you off, it's so interesting because the Greeks actually talk about that. They talk about primary emotions and secondary emotions and how primary emotions are actually kind of instinctive and secondary emotions are deliberative. And what they would say and what modern science

would say, neuroscience too, fMRI studies have proven all of this, is that you can even change that primary emotion. You can change that instinct. That takes time and years of habitual training, but it's much easier to access and change almost immediately that secondary reaction. But even your primary reaction, you can be the kind of person who doesn't yell fuck if you don't want to. If you want to, God bless you, man.

I'm not here to judge how you drive in traffic. There's a certain amount of, I don't know. I try and, what's the old line from Sting? A gentleman, I don't know, I can't remember the line, but basically smiles at ignorance. And so you try and let a lot of stuff pass, but sometimes just getting that out is a nice little release from, I don't know, some other pent up thing. Yeah, 100%. And that's as long as you're intentional about it though. For me, it's not yelling during traffic, but it might be punching someone out in an MMA class. But you know, whatever, whatever, you were waiting for me to bring it home to a place

that was not highly illegal. I don't actually just, actually you guys, stoic empathy is not about walking down the street and punching random people in the face. It's very different. Yeah, I don't remember Epictetus talking about this. I'm pretty sure Epictetus said, now she'll punch them in the face if they get stupid. But look, the reality is, if you feel you need a release, maybe your release is poetry, maybe someone else's release is hitting a bag, and maybe someone else is yelling, as long as you're yelling in a way that doesn't harm you that is serving you and moving you forward, right?

So for instance, let's say you've got a wife in the car who really doesn't like it when you swear. I'm pulling this example out of thin air, by the way. It's not... I'm suspicious. Let's say you get into a fight with your lovely, beautiful, loving wife every time you randomly scream during traffic and you want to avoid that. You leave her home.

Well, that is one solution. Let's assume you want to take her with you, right? Again, we want to make sure that we're aligned with what your intentions are. Let me write this down. Why would we want to do that? Why? Oh, she's lovely. She's fantastic. She's on your side. She's going to kill for you, man. She's going to kill for you. We're going to dinner. She's going to kill me is usually how it works out. Anyway.

Listen, it's every woman's dream to have been an assassin and seduced world leaders and murdered them on our wedding nights. Really? Is this a fantasy? This is 100%. This is because power, everybody wants global domination. You started out the show asking for global domination. Global domination, yeah, that's true. This is the beginning of the show. Okay, but let's go to your question about empathy.

So here's what I do with empathy. What I do with empathy is I really look at it the way, from a scientific lens, from the way psychologists look at it, is empathy is a spectrum. On the one end of the spectrum is emotional empathy, which is, listen, even if you're the manliest, manliest man in the world, you've experienced emotional empathy because you've consumed entertainment that you've been really excited about, right? Oh, yeah. Let's say you're playing a video game or you're watching a movie and your favorite character is in a car driving happy, somebody texts them, they look down, you think, you idiot,

why are you looking down? Don't you know this is a movie and you're going to spin out of control and explode into pieces. Now, here's what's incredible. When your favorite character gets t-boned by a truck in whatever it is you're watching or in whatever video game it is you're playing, you recoil. You have a pain response to their pain. You're not feeling glass shatter your skin like they are with their front windshield, but you are feeling pain in response to their

pain. That's emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy is the opposite end of that spectrum. It's like I'm not walking any amount of miles in your shoes, but I am syncing my steps with you so that I can feel your rhythm, see what you see, smell what you smell, hear what you hear, so that I can understand you, your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions. It's literally, imagine an alien empath that lands on planet earth and can read your mind and read your feelings and imagine the incredible power and control that comes along with that. And so then there's this spectrum of the emotional to the cognitive, because there's all sorts

of stuff in between. And you might even start a conversation at cognitive and suddenly slip into emotional or go further toward emotional or the other way around. So what I do is I teach intentional empathy. The idea is to understand what the situation, I use your stoicism to be that place in between the stimuli and the response, evaluate the situation, attach yourself as much as you think is appropriate for your

relationships. I'm not here to judge you, because I'm not in that situation. I'll judge you. Yeah, you can. It's your show. You can do whatever you want. I'm a guest here. I have to be polite. For at least the next 50 minutes or 40 minutes or however long I'm on here. And then you decide how emotionally attached you want to be. But either way, you engage in the empathic act of understanding. Now here's the thing. Unless you're a total and complete psychopath, and I mean that term literally, I don't mean

it hyperbolically, you will never be able to be completely 100% entirely only cognitively empathic. Because once you understand someone, there's a certain level of attachment that takes place. But in my TEDx talk, I tell a story of how I first learned about this method. And it was from my mom on the streets of Tehran, when we were approached by a morality police officer who was carrying a Russian assault rifle and essentially threatening us because my headscarf wasn't on properly. I was a kid. This is not a person whose shoes we wanted to walk a mile in. This is not a person whose pain you want to feel. You're in this situation. You have no power. You need to walk a mile in. This is not a person whose pain you want to feel. You're

in this situation. You have no power. You need to get out of it. And so you use your understanding, your empathic understanding of the other person in order to gain that advantage in the situation. And you use the stoic control to get there. Pete Slauson Hmm. And that's got to be a shocking, hella sort of situation, especially to feel that disabled and disempowered and stuff. I imagine that's probably how a lot of Iranian people feel. I don't know. I've never been there. I grew up with the 80s and the hostages and all that stuff. And yeah, it was a hard time. You see pictures of what

life was like in Iran before the regime took over. And yeah, it looked very much normal. It looked very Americana, actually. Yeah, it was. It was a Western ally at that time, for sure. The food's exceptional. I've got a best friend that his wife's Iranian and oh my God, she makes food. Okay, now you're just sucking up, Chris. Now you're complimenting us. Well, the food is really good. Next thing you know, you're going to be talking about Persian cats and Persian women and Persian

rugs. No, no, no. I don't know anything about Persian women. I'd like to, but no, the food is extra. It is a fatness of evil that is good. You'll die happy and fat. You will. It's true. My mother approaches every encounter with another human being as if they're about five pounds thinner than they should be. And this is a bridge that she will gap for you in just a minute.

Don't worry, I'll make you five pounds heavier. Just give me 10 minutes. Yeah, I'm not guessing yes. I think I just need some breakfast here, Shara. I think that's the problem, it's turned into food. Let's try and turn it back because this is not a food show on the Food Network. Do I get an advertising plug for that?

You talk about using this for self leadership in the book subtitle, but can you use this for leadership as well? Dr. Puneet Dhawan 100%. So, here's a context that I think all of your listeners can relate to, whether they are parents or leaders in a corporate organization. The idea of being responsible for someone or someones who are more vulnerable than you are, because you're their CEO, or you're their manager, or you're their parent, and then you come in contact with some shocking news that's going to disrupt their lives. That's not to say you don't tell them about it. That's not to say you're secretive. It's not to

say you're inauthentic. It's not to say you don't reveal any vulnerability, but you've got to take control of that situation. You have to be careful how you deliver that message to these folks who could lose their jobs and little Timmy could lose his braces or whatever it is that they've got going on in their personal lives. Yeah, you should be lucky that I used Timmy and the braces example, because I often use Jeffrey and the cancer example and the need for health insurance. But listen, these are realities that people need to face. And if you're their leader, it's your job to help protect them. It could also be said of your shareholder base,

of your consumer base, of your board of directors. Whatever the situation is that you are managing doesn't mean you lie, it doesn't mean you're inauthentic. But the way you reveal the information and the strategic approach that you take moving forward requires a certain level of control. And it's precisely your empathic understanding of the vulnerability of the people around you that really gets you there, that motivates you to get your shit together, right?

We've all been there, right? We've all been there. Or there's been times in my life where I thought, oh my gosh, no, I'm not in control. And then I get some bad news and I'm around my kids. And suddenly, I am the most stoic person in the world because I don't want to traumatize my children, right? Pete Slauson Where's the fun in that though? I mean, isn't that the job of every parent, traumatizing your children? I think the unintentional traumatizing of children is the job of every parent.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's the job. Because they've got to have something to talk about in the psychologist. With their therapist, yeah, yeah, yeah. The doll where your mom pushed you off. That's how it goes. I'd like to go on the record to say I love my mother very much and have no complaints. Oh. But the record reflects. Then there comes a time for people out there who are still blaming their parents for everything and they're full grown adults.

You've been an adult for a while. Give it up. I know from personally. I hear you. I mean, it's good to know where that shit came from, but listen, at the end of the day, this is, you're the thing in the middle between the stimuli and the response. It's your life. You are the willpower. You know, and there's a couple things I'm setting up in my brain and I just scrambled it.

You know, I know somebody who, they're in their 50s and they have not given grace to their parents that they were two people doing the best they could. And that's part of stoicism too. I mean, you have to go, hey, those were two people, they were doing the best they could. Maybe they were at a generational age where, you know, they spanked us when in our generational age, they skipped it in the following generations and you could tell. Kirsten No, I said yes at the wrong time, audience. I didn't mean to agree. Pete She didn't mean that one. Kirsten It was such a part of that.

Pete She's not following me over the cliff, evidently. Kirsten No, but I didn't stop in time. I feel like the, what is it, the coyote or the road runner or something like that? I got you emotionally react with empathy. I went fully off the close. There you go. Gotcha. I got you.

It's a gotcha show now. We don't do gotcha shows. I had some the other day, they were set up to come on the show and they were concerned that we were going to pull a gotcha show on them for some reason. And I'm like, why would we do that? This is that kind of show. I've had that happen to me on podcasts. Have you really? They pull a gotcha? They do. for some reason and I'm like, why would we do that? It's not, this isn't that kind of show. I've had that happen to me on podcasts.

Have you really? They pull a gotcha like- They do. Yeah. Like, you're not really human. You're a lizard person from Mars. In fairness, they saw past the mask, so I can hardly blame them. But you know, it doesn't work with people like me. I'm a trained litigator, but I actually ended up becoming kind of friends with the host. And I said, yeah, yeah, made it work. On, go ahead with your point, because I'm going to remember mine, because I scrambled

a few things. Okay, okay, no, but I was going to pick up on your point, which is essentially, you just made the point about giving grace to your parents. So there's this really cool thing in Stoicism, and it's really essentially the composite of the doctrine of Stoicism, which is called the dichotomy of control. And in that doctrine, what you do is you discern between what is in your control and what is not in your control. And if something isn't in your control, it's not just about grace for your parent or forgiveness

for the other or the fact that you grew up poor or the fact that you're this race or in that country or whatever the case might be. But for yourself, you release what is not in your control and focus on what is because obsessively trying to, and again, it's fine to try to understand power dynamics or why certain things happened or why your fight or flight is triggered every time somebody cuts you off in traffic, right? But at the same time, you don't want to dwell on that. You want to decide, is this something I want to change or not? If it is, I'm going to change it. And I'm going to focus on that because I am able to control my emotions, my thoughts,

my feelings, my judgments. These are things in my control. Pete Yeah. It's, the thing I wanted to get into was memento mori. I don't know if you get into some of that. That really helped me. That was an aspect of stoicism, memento mori, embracing death. You know, Marcus Aurelius says, death smiles, that is really the best we can do is smile back. And that helped me recently when my dog passed six months ago and the, uh, it really helped prepare me and we knew she had leukemia for a year and it really helped me prepare her for death.

When her passing came, I didn't go through as much of the grief that I normally would. I went through grief. I still get grief every now and then. But the momentum more as we have really helped and being able to control that emotion. You can, you know, as men, I don't know, I can't speak for women, but as men, you know, we feel emotions. And you're right. One of the big, one of the most annoying things about people who don't understand stoicism is what you mentioned a bit ago, especially when I talk to men and they're like, oh, that's where you turn off your emotions. As men, we kind of turn off a lot of our stuff because we have to in our hero's journey, no one gives us our due and we have to earn it.

We turn off a lot of stuff. I mean, sometimes we're dealing with stuff we have to earn it. You know, we turn off a lot of stuff. I mean, sometimes we're dealing with stuff we have to manage what we can deal with and what we can balance. But being able to control that emotion is so important. Do you talk in your book about trauma? Because one of the things that, one of the challenges people have with switching from being completely emotional and emotionally reactive and low emotional intelligence to having high emotional intelligence, not being emotionally reactive, being stoic, if you

will. One of the problems of trauma is if people haven't healed their trauma, if they haven't resolved it, they tend to be emotionally reactive or highly emotionally reactive because anytime they encounter some sort of gaslighting or some sort of impetus that triggers that flight or flight response of their trauma, then they emotionally react and they lose control. I don't know if you talk about in the book about dealing with trauma and things of that nature so they become more balanced. Yeah.

Your point about Momento Mori and your point about trauma are actually beautifully interrelated. So, Momento Mori, the idea of the acknowledgement and the acceptance of the impermanence of life, right? This too will end and the very impermanence of it, what was your dog's name? Freya. What was it? Freya. Freya. Okay. The fact that Freya is only with you for a while is in fact part of what makes your interaction with Freya so extraordinary and such a gift.

And the fact that really at the end of the day, none of us are entitled to another day of life. We're not. We could get hit by a bus at any minute. It doesn't matter where in the world we are, how privileged we are, what our skin color is. Any of us could die at any minute. It is beyond our control. What we can do though is we can be mindful of the

impermanence of our life, which is part of what can really help us cope with our trauma. But within the stoicism context, it is used sort of as a backward way of thinking to help you manage and cope with the strong emotional reactions that you're having to a particular situation so you can decide whether that's worth it to you or not given that this is your overall life. So the thing about trauma that I go into in the book is, and you talked about this a little bit in the beginning, actually you said it, you said it sort of as an aside this idea that you're you could be in fight or flight when you're in traffic, but it's actually not in us, right? It's a very, very important point because if you can be in fight or flight when you're in traffic, imagine what it's

like if somebody sneaks up behind you, yells boo and grabs your waist and you, you are violently surprised and threatened, right? I mean, that can be a very, you can get a very, very extreme, traumatic fight or flight reaction. So in the book, I actually go into the neuroscience and I've tried to structure it in a way that folks can skip it if they want to, but I do have, you know, hundreds of citations to neuroscience studies, all of which were peer-reviewed, published in neuroscience journals, and involved fMRI machines. And really, really what I do is I help you understand

what is it that's happening in my brain when I'm having that trauma response, and what is it that I can do to calm that trauma response for myself in that very moment so that I can think more clearly, so that I can open up my cognitive capabilities. But also, and this is really, really important, what if I'm dealing with someone who's having that traumatic reaction or that impulsive reaction?

How do I calm them down so I can get them to think rationally and logically. Yeah. So it's not just myself, it is also the people with whom I negotiate, live with, work with on a daily basis. And you all have seen this, you all know people have triggers, right? And the better you know them, the better you know their triggers. And it's one thing to try to avoid them, but really, sometimes they're completely unavoidable. and you've got to figure out how to deal with them when someone is triggered. Or you're not the one who triggered them, someone else triggered them, now you got to deal with the aftermath, right? So how do you manage that situation? How do you get them out of fight, flight or freeze and get them into a more cognitively

capable space where they can actually evaluate through wisdom the options and the situation that's in front of them. Definitely. Definitely. I mean, that's brilliant in how that can work for them. Let's get on to your services. I know you have a podcast, we should get a plugin for that and some of the services you offer on your website. I appreciate it, Chris. Right now, really more than anything else, I just would love for anyone and everyone to read my book. I do offer consulting services. Those are at a different end of the price range. I tend to work with larger corporations, mid-size and national and international corporations. And actually, God, this is a totally unrelated story. I just got a new agent for that and it's been a very interesting onboarding process. But anyway, that's besides the point. The thing that's really exciting

to me is for less than 30 bucks, you can get all of this material by getting the book. There's also an audiobook and there is additional exercises. I think there's 10 additional tracks in the audiobook, a few of which have to do with memento mori, interestingly enough. One of them is a memento mori exercise and another one is a memento mori meditation, if you're into meditation. And then there's also a Kindle version, but I would love to see. Or you guys can reach out to me on social media and engage with me, and I try to get some of this material out there as much as I can.

Pete Slauson There we go. So, this is all the good stuff you offer. How's the podcast coming along? Srimad Bhattacharya Really well, actually. Really well. It's really fun. I mean, you are the king of podcasts, so I don't think that I can relay anything to you. I will say from my point of view, normally I'm the one being interviewed, so it's been really cool actually being on the other side of that and just kind of let it, because I'm also a Ted Talk producer, so I produce the talks of 80 people who aren't me. And getting into someone else's genius is such a cool thing to be able to do.

It's totally a privilege. I love it. That's why I love the show. I get to have people on who are really smart and I'm just the dumb one with the mic and a couple of things. Jai Radha I was just going to say, it's more like you're walking around looking for someone who can match your wits is what's happening and it's not that easy. It's not that easy. Pete Slauson We have a lot of good, I mean, most everyone

comes on the show. They've got pretty good chops when it comes to their media. For sure. Their media savvy, if you will. So we try and filter for that. But anything more we want to plug, anything more we want to let people know about about you before we go out? I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

I would just say follow me on social media. You can connect with me on LinkedIn and you can pre-order depending on when you are watching slash listening to this, you can pre-order by the book. And let me know, share your experiences with me. I would love to hear about your stoic stories, your empathy stories and your, more specifically, your stoic empathy stories. How did your awareness of the situation allow you to gain control of it? Pete We need more stoicism in the world and more logic and reason. I mean, the emotionalism is taken over this world and it's almost the victimhood competition that we have in this world where people just want to play on being the biggest victim for

attention and validation or power, whatever they want to use it for. It just seems, you know, we've reached that crudgeon, that pinnacle. I don't know. Yeah. Well, look, there's always going to be somebody who's got it better than you. There's always going to be somebody who's got it worse than you. I'm not doubting that there are things happening to you that suck. I'm not saying they don't. And I'm not doubting the existence of external power dynamics, but I'm also not doubting the existence of you and your own power and your ability to control it. It sounds like people also need to use it to be self-actualized from what you said.

I love that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's the core tenet. Anyway, thank you very much for coming to the show, Cher. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. I had such a good time.

Now, can you sing Turn Back Time? I can. No, I'm just teasing. I can. No, come on. Now we've got to appreciate it. My pleasure. I had such a good time. Now, can you sing Turn Back Time? I can. No, I'm just teasing. I can't. No, come on. Now we've got to do it. Everybody plug your ears, please. Plug your ears and maybe move away any glass that is subject to being shattered also. Yeah. I think your voice is probably too high pitched to pull off that Cher baritone. If I could turn back time.

That's it. You hit it. Man, pitch perfect. I might have to go lower. No, we love Cher. I grew up watching the Sonny and Cher show as a kid and Welch, what was the Welch thing with the bubbles, the Welch orchestra or whatever. Yeah, I think that is it. The Welch thing with the bubbles, the Welch orchestra or whatever. So, I just want to share. Yeah, I think that is it, the Welch orchestra, yeah. And Johnny Carson, who helped me be a great host. So, thank you very much for coming to the show. Thanks, our audience, for tuning in. Order per book, wherever fine books are sold, you can pre-order it now. It's out April 8th, 2025, called Stoic Empathy, the Roadmap to a Life of Influence, Self-Leadership and Integr integrity. I recommend everybody get into stoicism. It's

really good for you, especially in this crazy world that we live in right now. What's the old adage? The Chinese curse? You live in interesting times. Pete Slauson Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. Go to GoodRees.com, FortressCrisposs, LinkedIn.com, FortressCrisposs, Crisphos One on the Tik Tok, CrisphosFedon.com, forchus.chrisvoss.chrisvoss1 on the tiktokity, chrisvossfacebook.com. You'll be able to see all the wonderful things that we have on there to do and all our groups and pages and all that silliness. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other.

Stay safe. We'll see you next time.