The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – SYSTEMology: Create time, reduce errors and scale your profits with proven business systems by David Jenyns

Episode Date: April 29, 2023

SYSTEMology: Create time, reduce errors and scale your profits with proven business systems by David Jenyns Finally a step-by-step system that fixes owner dependent businesses. Do you sometimes feel like your business is an adult daycare centre? Are you constantly repeating yourself, fixing errors and trying to hold things together? What if it were possible to create a business that runs itself? You've dreamed about it - now it's time to make this a reality! If you're anything like many seasoned business owners, you've tried and failed to systemise your business. The reality is, your shiny business isn't as functional as it looks from the outside; it's unorganised, inconsistent and key-person dependent. SYSTEMology solves this problem with a proven, step-by-step business systemisation framework - designed so that even the busiest business owner can deploy it. Drawing on 20+ years of business experience and real-life case studies, David Jenyns details the path to complete business reliability. In this book you will discover: Why most business owners fail to systemise their business Where to get started and what systems must create first Why business owners are typically the worst people to document systems Why modelling your best team members is the best-kept secret to rapid systems Why you don't need (and shouldn't try) to systemise like McDonald's The best way to unlock innovation and strategies to skyrocket your creativity Simple strategies to get your team to follow your systems - even the stubborn ones How to make improving systems a regular part of your team's routine ​Why systems-centred businesses always get higher multiples and sell for top dollar The fact is, systemising your business doesn't have to be time-consuming or overwhelming. You're just a few clicks away from having everything you need. SYSTEMology has worked for countless business owners worldwide, and it can work for you too. Just click that buy now button at the top of this page to get started.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. The hottest podcast in the world. Ouch, I burned myself.

That's got to be the best intro I've heard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Ouch, I burned myself. I just, I fl the best intro I've heard. I love it. Absolutely love it. Ouch, I burned myself. I just, I flubbed the whole thing there. Hey guys, this is Chris Voss. I'm the host. If you haven't seen me in the last 14 years, I'm the host of the stupid show,

The Chris Voss Show. It's not stupid. I'm stupid. Anyway guys, welcome to the big show. We certainly appreciate you guys. Welcome to the show and the family that loves you. The Chris Voss Show family that loves loves you but doesn't judge you. At least not as harshly as people do when I flub up the intro to the show and just improv something that's totally stupid and doesn't make any sense. But that's the beauty of it. You never know what's going to happen in the ramble.

We have an amazing author and brilliant mind on the show, and it's clearly not me. David Jennings is on the show with us today. He's coming to us all the way from Australia. That's not even right. That's not even an Australian accent. But we're going to get to him and his Australian accent and his brilliant business book that he wrote. We'll get to that in a second.

But in the meantime, guilt your family, friends, and relatives to join your MLM downline of the Chris Voss Show. There's no MLM. You don't have to do that. But you should have five people in your downline, though. Seriously. tell them to go to youtube.com for it says chris voss goodreads.com for it says chris voss and the linkedin the linkedin newsletter how many of you subscribe to that like uh do it do it now or else anyway guys uh he's the author of the amazing book

august 18th 2020 came out we were excited to have him on the show because he's a brilliant mind in this category of business. The book is entitled Systemology. Create time, reduce errors, and scale your profits with proven business systems. David Jennings, once again, is on the show today, and we're excited to have him. He is an experienced entrepreneur who sold the Melbourne Cricket Ground in his early 20s and founded Melbourne SEO Services. He systemized himself out of that business in 2016 and founded Systemology to help business owners implement systems to scale their businesses. Today, he supports a growing community of certified systemologists, delivers workshops, keynote addresses, hosts a podcast, and is on a mission to free business owners worldwide from daily operations. Welcome to the show, David.

How are you? Awesome. Pleasure to be here. There you go. So what is a systemology? This sounds like a cult. Is there a cult going on here? Religion or something? It is the cult of business systems. I think once you're converted, you'll never go back. It's definitely addictive. Geez, I got to join another one. How much is it going to cost me? No, I'm just kidding.

So give us your dot com so people can find you on the winners, please. to join another one uh yeah how much how much is it going to cost me no i'm just kidding uh so give us your dot com so people can find you on the winners please yes so just systemology.com or probably best thing to do just head to amazon and search for the book it's on there yeah i've been needing a religion do i have to sacrifice any virgins in this one because the old one isn't working out evidently uh just children just children wow okay wow all right uh and you're coming all the way from uh melbourne are you coming from melbourne i know that you spent some time there i guess yeah yep so it is start of the day for me the end of the day for you there you go and your toilets go the other way we already had a discussion in the green room about vegemite

so we won't resurrect what horrible stuff that is, according to my opinion, but not yours. Anyway, I tease my Australian friends, I love them. So give us an overview, David, of this book and what's inside of it. Well, most business owners, they get stuck in the day-to-day operations. They build a business delivering the product or service, and then they end up basically getting chained to the business, which is oftentimes like the complete opposite of the reason they started business. They were looking for freedom and building something that they had control over, but the business ultimately controls them for many. So what systemology is about is a system for systemizing business. So I've read a few books like many of your listeners,

things like The E-Myth and Traction and Scaling Up. And a lot of them, they all talk about systems and processes. You've got to document things so you can pass them off to your team. But I never really knew where to get started or how to do it. And truth be known, I didn't even like documentation and writing systems and processes. So I was kind of like, well, how am I going to get this done? And that really kind of birthed this idea of systemology and the seven steps to systemize a business.

Oh, it seems pretty cool. You know, I just got used to, as an entrepreneur, you know, the whole bondage effect of it. I just think of it as BDSM and abuse. And that's, you know, when you say you're chained to your business, that's kind of my chain. I'm just chained to my business. I just take it as abuse and go, I should derive some pleasure from this abuse, but I don't. And believe it or not, you're not even alone with that. Most business owners, they just end up grinding it out and going, that's just the way it is

it's kind of it's kind of it's kind of where you're at it's it's kind of like being in a marriage for 20 years you're just like oh fuck just another day kill me now uh the uh there's an old bit there from uh uh sam kinnison kill me now stop if anybody remembers that old leneman uh thing where he's walking the cart anyway, obscure reference for those of you who are Gen Zers. So let's talk a little bit about your history. Let's get an origin story, if you don't mind, out of you so we can get a little idea. What is the Melbourne Cricket Ground? Because over here in the States, we don't give a shit about anything else that's outside of us.

So give us a little bit more details on that. You guys love sport almost as much as we do we're late and the mcg is like uh the vatican of sport here in australia it's like our our hallowed ground our magical turf so um when i was just leaving school i was you know budding young entrepreneur wanting to take over the world i read a book called the Millionaire. And it told this story of a guy called Paul Hartunian, who sold the Brooklyn Bridge for 1995. They were doing renovations. He got his hands on a bunch of wood, chopped it up into pieces and then sold it off as little pieces on certificate paper. So I just read this story. And then I was driving past the mcg and i saw a big

gaping hole in one side of it because they'd basically knocked down an entire stand and i went and got myself uh as much discarded wood and carpet as i could and i wrote a press release saying melbourne man sells the mcg for 1995 and then I sent it off to all of the media outlets and then I just got mobbed for a good few months and basically they did a whole bunch of little news stories and things like that and I copied Paul Hartunian

I chopped it into pieces, stuck it to certificate paper and then I mailed little pieces of the MCG out. Did you get any calls from attorneys? Here in the States you get a CND, you get any uh calls from attorneys here in here in the states you get a cnd you're gonna see some i did i got two i got um one from uh the mcg because initially i'd used in my domain name it was um own uh the mcg uh which they didn't like because it was a trademark term so i had to make it own the g so that was a

minor name change and then i also got one uh afterwards but it was a little bit too late every time uh that the mcg afterwards uh would demolish a stand because they did a complete renovation uh that was the last time that they let any of this wood and stuff go and then they started auctioning it off as well so i kind of turned it into a thing wow wow that is funny as crap because yeah i guess uh you know like uh you know we have like stadiums here and they'll sell like the seats and stuff like that some people collect them i don't know why um i still have loads of it sitting at mum's. Here's a little piece. Do you really?

Wow. It's just little. That was a slither. So this was taken from one big long plank, and I would basically sell that for $20. And people loved it. Damn. And then you're like, I own a piece of the team.

There you go. That's pretty awesome. And then you move from that into, I think, SEO services? So like any budding young entrepreneur, I tried my hands on many different things. And then I settled in the digital agency for quite some time. I got some really good traction there. It was early days of search engine optimization.

It was really easy. It was a bit like Midas. Everything you would touch would turn to gold because you just would over optimize pages and send a bunch of backlinks to it and it would do really well for local businesses so that was uh the heyday for me and I but I got stuck in that business like I I really was on the tools I was learning the stuff inside and out I built a small team around me, but every problem,

whether it was with clients or team or anything, it would just fall back on me. And it was kind of like, I feel like it was living a bit of Groundhog Day. I was solving the same problems, doing the same thing again and again and again for about 10 years until we found out we were pregnant. And then I had that moment where i was like

because i was working really long hours 60 70 hours um a week and i was kind of like i don't want to be that dad who's always too busy i gotta figure out how i break this mold and that's kind of when i went on the search and thought i gotta i gotta change this see i like being the dad who's too busy because they don't return your calls or ask for money. But I don't have kids. That's why. So there's that. So this is really interesting. So at one point, it says here that you reached a point where you moved to the beach and tripled your business.

At what point was that? That was just when we found out we were pregnant. I ended up taking, I knew I had a nine month runway. So I focused heavily on systemizing and I had a lady in the team that was a prime candidate for running the show. And I kind of knew it, but we kind of had groomed her into that,

documented a lot of the processes. I removed myself, ended up taking a year off once or shortly after our first arrived. And then we had a second and then we moved down the coast. And I just completely rewired my brain for the way that business can work. And it's possible to own a profitable enterprise that works without you whereas up until then all of the businesses that i'd been involved in it was just me doing the thing grinding it out and it was kind of like that little connection and that switch and that's when i kind of thought you know what if i was going to start a business from

scratch something that had meaning and the digital agency was getting run by melissa i thought what would i want to do and i thought how about I bottle this whole idea of systems and the approach I use to remove myself? And that's when Systemology got birthed. And Melbourne SEO ran after that for about three years. But then Melissa was born out of Atlanta in the States and she had to go fly back to the US. She was here in Melbourne and then kind of at a crossroads, she needed to move back and

couldn't run the business. And I was like, well, I don't really want to get sucked back into that business. So we ended up selling Melbourne SEO services. So that business got sold. And again, that kind of felt like that was a completion for, or the bookend for that particular part of my life. And now I've kind of shifted gears into the system side of things. There you go.

So systemology builds itself as solving the problem with a proven step-by-step business systemization framework designed so that even the busiest business owner can deploy it. And you talk about one of the problems that I always had. And I think a lot of people have you ever seen that that uh like guy who spins plates and he's got like a whole bunch of plates on stage and he's he's got a little pole that spins the plates and he has to keep running up and down keeping the plate spinning and you know adjusting himself that's kind of i felt or kind of like you know one of those guys in a ship where you're trying to stick your finger in all the holes or a dike, a dam where you're trying to, you're over in Dutch land or whatever, trying to, you know, poke all the holes and fill them. And, you know, eventually you run out of fingers. You're like, ah, great.

We're now we're going to flood for sure. Yeah. And that's such a common problem. Business owners feel that way. And then oftentimes they'll even think to themselves, ah, maybe I just need more staff to solve this problem and then they hire more staff but then that just means you got another plate to spin because now you've got to keep them busy and load them up with tasks and let them do their thing and you work through a bunch of team members but before you even get to your work the first, you've got to go back to the start and load them up again. So it's a very common problem.

And that's the circuit breaker here is to identify the essential, repeatable, delegatable tasks, capture them and systemize and codify them. So that way they can get delivered to a certain standard. That way new team members can come on board and they can follow this new process. And that's how they get up to speed without needing, you know, high valued, highly skilled team members looking over their shoulders,

watching their every single move. And that then takes them away from doing their highest value tasks. And it starts with the business owner, but it's the same with all great team members. They just get busy in that day-to-day operations and you have to find a way to be able to capture what you're doing and delegate it down. There you go. You know, the hardest part, I was lucky with my 13-year business partner that we built a lot of companies with, and we've been best friends for 22 years. And I was lucky that I could be the visionary CEO. So I could go out and vision stuff, and I could kind of build the systems, and I could give them to him, and he would do it.

And he was good at the rudimentary, boring day-to-day stuff. He liked that. Like if you asked him for ideas or, Hey, you know, you got any ideas? He'd be like, he'd just look at you over the back and start like, I got nothing, man. And it was kind of that way. Um, but he was really great, uh, someone I could trust and someone who could do everything, uh, all the time over and over and over again. And he liked that it was very comfortable for him he was very good at it and so we made a great team because we had

you know he could implement the systems that i would design uh and improve on them and then i would uh be the visionary running around like a crazy head going i have a vision and people found the perfect combination and i think a lot of business owners need to work towards that for sure and it's something that uh gino wickman talks about in a book he wrote called rocket fuel and he talks about the visionary and he calls it the integrator michael gerber used to talk about it as the leader and the manager. And it's this idea, the visionary who can go out and see the problems in the world and figure out the solutions and come up with the first version prototype and, you know, win some of those clients. And then yes, the ultimate is having someone who

catches something on the back end of all of the work that you're doing and then takes it through to completion and delivers on the promises that you make to the clients and helps to manage the team and get things in place. And oftentimes the skills required, and I think that's really what I speak to with systemology, being a visionary creative like you, I didn't fall in love with writing systems and processes. I fell in love with the result of what the systems and processes bring. So I try and bridge that gap for the visionary creative and go, hey, you might not see yourself as a systems person, but that doesn't mean you can't own a systems-driven business. You just need to find the yin to your yang and you need to set up

some processes and you need to recruit and find the right people who can then complement the areas that you might be weaker in. Most definitely. And so you help people with simple strategies to follow your systems, even stubborn ones. Is that for employees that don't want to follow the systems? Pretty much. Don't want to follow the systems? Pretty much. Don't you just fire those people? Some people do, but you need to sugarcoat it. Ah, the spin. Firing them.

Or as we like to call it, leadership. You give them every opportunity and you set it up so that they can jump on board. But there are some people who just aren't systems minded. And I tell this story. I had my dad created a thing called the sheet, which was for my brother and I. And it was the very first system that I ever saw. I was eight years old at the time.

And dad gamified everything for us where he basically said, clean your bedroom get 10 points go to bed by this time get 20 points be good to your brother get 30 points any over the course of the week you would earn points for all of these activities that is awesome yeah then then it would get added up and then at the end of the week he had this little scoring legend which would then determine how much money you made now you need to make a book on that for parents i do because my household it was like uh you won't make your bed uh there's going to be the beating uh you know i'm just kidding you know that was that would

rattle his belt and pretend like he was taking it off he'd give that belt shake and you'd be like ah shit he's gonna take it off i'm i better go do what he says yep yep there are two ways to lead so that's that's true i like your way better though that's right so i we'd learn these points but what i found really interesting was i embraced the sheet i learned how to play the game i played it full out and i got maximum money to the point where dad said hey you're gonna bleed me dry with how much money i'm paying out but my brother on the flip side was the complete opposite he hated the sheet he didn't want to play the game he didn't do anything so he went one way i went the other and it made me realize some people are systems minded and some aren't and in your family you don't get to choose but in business you do it's your

business so choose people who fit with the way that you want to run your business because that's your choice as a business owner and if you do that it'll make your life easier it definitely will because uh you know you you just fire people, get them out of your way. Yeah, yeah. I'm horrible at that. Like avoid them up front. Like if you build a good recruitment system that screens them up front and you ask some questions and share some systems and processes and say this is the type of thing that you're going to be doing day to day and you tell it to them right up front,

it repels those who don't fit with that culture and it attracts those that do. So part of the secret is in the recruitment up front, but then the other challenge, which is what the book also speaks to, that resistance, the stubborn staff, which are the ones that have been with you for five years, 10 years before you've introduced this systems culture. And that's the hardest bit. It's how do you change people who are already stuck in their ways? And like you said, maybe you just fire them. Yeah, write them up, whatever. They sure handle that business. But yeah, if you hire well, you're going to do well. So there's a lot of details in the book that

people should read. But one of the things you found that systems centered businesses get higher multiples and sell for top dollar. I think people want to know how to get higher multiples in the company. So, please add a little bit of that if you would, please. So, great example of this, we had a lady called Jeanette Farron who runs a business called Diggy Doggy Daycare and it was a doggy daycare center people would go and drop their dog off for the day and they'd look after them walk them feed them do all the rest while the human would go off to work that's what I do with my kids yeah that's right and her business was really great she'd been running it for i think it was 13 years and she'd

been running it with her sister and she got towards the end where she kind of went look i've kind of had enough they built up uh the location and it was performing really well and she started to think about an exit and she knew that the two things that the acquirer is going to look for is financial performance and for the bigger acquirers they want to go is there a system and a process where even if the key team members leave the business will continue to function so a way to de-risk a purchase which increases the value is to have systems and processes because it then makes it easier for the business to continue to operate so she went through this process over the course of 12 months where she improved the financial performance

stepped out of the day-to-day documented all of the processes and then ultimately got acquired by a company called pet stock which is a big listed company here in australia and she got a very high multiple and the reason they bought it, they said, look, it was the financial performance in the systems. And they said, what we want to do is we see your store as a franchise prototype, and we want to roll this out and basically put Diggy Doggy Daycare stores inside our bigger pet stock stores all around Australia.

So they bought it as a franchise prototype. And that really will get you the highest multiples. And whether or not you're bought by some big corporate or you're bought by Joe Bloggs down the street, any buyer wants to make sure that the business is going to continue to run after you walk out the door. And the systems and the processes is a way to offer that level of security, which then increases the amount of money they're going to be happy to pay for the business. That is awesome, man.

I mean, that's, it's, it's really all about that. And, and, uh, you know,

constantly improving systems. That was the other big challenge I had. I was constantly dealing with, uh, you know, I build systems, put them in place. Sometimes they run for 10 years,

sometimes they use for a year, a month. And you'd be like, hey, man, is that thing working anymore? And all of a sudden it would stop working. You'd have to go in and replace it. How do you deal with stuff like that where, you know, suddenly a system works and then you got to go back in and rehack it or redesign it or re-innovate it?

Yeah, so partly you want to build a systems culture. So part of it is the way that you train them so maybe you have you know gino wickman talks about an issues list and you review it on a team meeting maybe that's once a week or once a month or once a quarter and you look at the problems and you think about them in terms of uh systems-based solutions so the clients, they just keep on not paying their invoices, and that's a real challenge for cash flow. Okay, well, how can we improve this system? Well, you know, and then you have a discussion and you go,

what could we do? Can we set up some reminders or do we build them up front or do we put them on credit card? Like it comes down to identifying issues and having a way that that's done a way that that's then discussed and when you discuss it looking for the solution it's about thinking how do we make the change at the system level as opposed to just dealing with the symptom or the the level case of, oh, yes, this client's not following.

How do we follow up, you know, Jane Doe because she hasn't paid her invoice? You want to get down to what's actually causing this and make the change at that level. Yeah, the systems can be boring sometimes. I think that's what a lot of people have issues with is, you know, the slowness, the boringness of a system like building it out who oversees it like as an entrepreneur you you don't want to get caught up in minutiae you're just kind of like hey man somebody else do this and i don't have to deal with it and like business owners do their best work when they're creative solving problems they actually get tired and lose their entrepreneurial mojo when

they're solving the same problem over and over and again. They're doing the same thing day in and day out. So systems is actually a way out of that. Because if you put a system in place, then you can solve a problem once or for a very long period of time. And then that enables you to move up to a higher quality problem so the key is actually to create a way that you as a business owner can install a system in the least possible moves with the so you just come up with the idea and then you know we we have a thing we call systems champions and you you build up a team member whose responsibility it is to take your ideas, help to codify, help to share it and roll it out.

And then again, depending on the size of the team, maybe you have an operations person or someone like you had the yin to your yang that then helps to oversee the team and the execution. So a big part of it is just how do we take away the bits that you don't like and get someone else to do it? And it still needs to be done. So, I mean, business, a lot of, like, you want to focus on areas where you're strongest, like focus on your strengths and then find the team members who can then fill in the gaps for the weaknesses. But don't ignore them.

Yeah. Especially, you want to make sure they do the job too, so don't ignore them. Yeah, especially you want to make sure they do the job too, so don't ignore them. But this definitely frees up your time and creates more time that you have to work on the business and to try and get everything going that way. So that's really important when it comes down to it. So this has been pretty insightful.

Anything I missed that I should have asked you about or anything we want to touch on or tease out before we go? Yeah. Look, the main thing is just i hope we've been able to light a fire inside the business owner today where maybe they thought about systems before or they tried it and didn't work or they've reached the conclusion that it's not for them i want them to go you know what this is possible i can maybe there's a better way maybe i'll give this a go and that's like if we've achieved that um then yeah i think they'll be on the path the only probably other thing and we could touch on it very quickly just the high level maybe seven steps of systemology i could whip through those because that kind of gives a bit of a summary of what the book is. Let's do. Yeah. So the seven steps, the first one is just define, which is

you've got to identify the 10 systems that you want to start with first, because there's lots of things you could do. You just need to figure out, well, where are you going to start? And there's a process for that. We call it a critical client flow flow then step number two is assign that's where we think about who on the team knows how to do this already to a pretty good standard and let's just capture that let's not try and make it perfect or the way that we would like it to be let's just capture what is currently happening and figure out who knows how to do that if jenny knows how to answer the phone and she does a pretty good job, well, great. Let's record the system around the way

that Jenny answers the phone. So that's step number two. Step number three is extract, which is how do we then get the knowledge out of the brain of those team members? And the real secret there is to make it a two-person job. So someone who knows how to do the thing, Jenny, but then maybe get someone else who's your systems champion

who can then watch the way that Jenny does it. Maybe she records a video or maybe she does a little audio dictation or whatever it ends up being. Just make it really easy for Jenny to get it out of her head and then have someone else document it. So that's step number three. Step number four is then organize,

which is where is this knowledge going to sit? Like you want to have it centrally located so everybody on the team can get to it when they need it. Then step number five is integrate. That's how do we get the team on board? How do we get them to buy in? And the secret there is just frame everything in terms of um the benefit to the team member quit thinking about

systems like hey the systems are gonna make me rich as a business owner and i'll be able to sell my business for a high multiple and like how does it make the team members life better and then step number six is what we say is scale and that's all about well what are the systems in addition to those 10 systems that we identified up front that are important things like recruitment and onboarding and some finance systems and then the last step in systemology is optimize which is uh now that you uh have your minimum viable systems in place how do you then create the the system to listen to your business and much like what we talked about on earlier which is how do you identify issues and how do you solve them at the systems level but if if you follow those seven steps, that kind of takes you from,

I don't really have any systems in place to now I've got the minimum set of systems I need to run my business. There you go. You know, this is really insightful and it's something that people really have trouble with, especially I think if you're a visionary CEO. You know, you like the design,

you like coming up with idea, but then the minutia of it, the work the the breakdown of the systems and you're just like you know i would just you know my i like i said i was lucky enough to have a really good business partner who could manage that stuff and if you're smart enough you can hire the people that can really apply that and make it work but you know you know, you've got to be able to monitor things. Like I used to, I wrote about this in my book and I used to walk in, I learned this from being an entrepreneur at my first company, uh, where I was an entrepreneur inside of a big corporation that wasn't mine. And I learned to walk around, uh, our systems and departments and go, Hey, why, why are we doing this way?

And they'd be like, uh, no, we already did it this way. So guide by a former dollar do this way. So we always do it this way. And it'd be like, you know, there's some pieces here that I think we could innovate and take that piece out of the system and process and this system and maybe change that a little bit and take out some of the steps and end up saving some money and some, and some speeding things up a little bit. They'd be like, that's a good idea.

And so I had that talent, which transposed itself into my business. And being able to look at things, you know, sometimes I would walk into my company and be like, who the hell designed this stupid-ass system? And they'd be like, you did? And I'd be like, that guy's dumb sometimes i'd sit and look at it and go okay well there's some ways we can constantly you know you constantly need to be improving things because if you don't your competitors will and then sometimes i'd look

at it and analyze and i go huh this is pretty good system yeah this whoever designed this was pretty smart me and uh but most times it was like well what what did you do but yeah there's always ways to improve everything and it had a constant change constant change i mean and you just hit the nail on the head on what the business owner should be doing and even when you were an entrepreneur like it's the same, like your mind is wired that way. So you want to create the systems and the machine around you to allow you to do that because not everybody can think like that. And it's how do we take the ideas out of the business owner's head, capture that, and then make sure that it can be delegated down or passed on or untrained to another team member.

And that's really what you got to figure out because that then helps you grow and scale it does it's uh you know it's one of those things where you know you you used to frustrate me my old ceo could walk into the room you could have been working for two months on something trying to resolve something and he had that fresh look that he would bring to some sort of system and he walked in and be like uh what are you doing there i'm like hey we're building this thing we can't get it to work and he'd be like i do that and over there and everything that'll work i'll see you bye he used to be like motherfucker uh you know but you have those fresh

eyes and that was his real trick he could come in but he also had a trick that i learned where he could see outside of the box and so he could look at things from the outside and not be lost in inside the uh cog of the wheel or the minutiae or and do that so really brilliant uh so give us your.com where people can find you on the interwebs and get to know more about you yeah so it's systemology so that's just system and then O-L-O-G-Y.com. And again, I mean, if you're listening to this, definitely check out, we have an audio version of the book as well. So if you go to Amazon, it'll have a link through to Audible. And I voice it and I had the good fortune of also having Michael Gerber,

the author of the e-myth, kind of like the granddaddy of business systems. He wrote the forward to the book and he reads that as well. So it's a pretty cool forward. Nice. Nice. So thank you very much, David, for coming on the show.

Very insightful. We love it. See if you can do something about that Vegemite or something over there in Australia. But other than that, we love, we love our Australian friends. They're wonderful people,

even though that's why let's go the different direction. I often say that I need to move there during the winter because you guys have the opposite of what we have with winter and summer. And I see all my Australian friends when it's cold here in winter in the U.S. I see all my Australian friends down there. It's 100 degrees or whatever. You know, have fun. I'm just like, oh, man, I hate my life. Plus, you guys have such a beautiful country

down there except for the spiders and the everything that can kill you which is everything evidently so there's that thank you very much it's a good part of the world so it definitely is it definitely is uh so uh thanks for coming on the show we really appreciate it thanks for tuning in order of the book wherever fine books are sold. It's Systemology. Create time, reduce errors, and scale your profits with proven business systems. I highly recommend it. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other.

Stay safe, and we'll see you guys next time. And that should have us out, David.