The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Take No Sh*t!: Build better relationships through discovering, creating and maintaining healthy boundaries in three (sometimes five) simple steps by Heather Claus

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

Take No Sh*t!: Build better relationships through discovering, creating and maintaining healthy boundaries in three (sometimes five) simple steps by Heather Claus https://amzn.to/40pUJFP My.curiouser.life David Earle said, "The more severe the dysfunction you experienced growing up, the more difficult boundaries are for you." Craptaculous boundaries are NOT your fault. Many of us have grown up with less-than ideal boundaries. Very, very few people are taught healthy boundaries at all. We don't see this modeled in our families. We don't see it modeled in our friends. We don't see it modeled in the movies. We don't see it modeled on TV. We very rarely even see it modeled in books. In fact, when we do show personal boundaries, we’re often taught that it's wrong. That we should do "what's expected," "be nice," or "do as I say." When we dare to stand up for ourselves, we hear, “Why are you so mean to me?” Or “You don’t appreciate anything I do for you.” We spend our lives being controlled by others, so we learn to control others—OR—we allow others to control us in exchange for love. And yet, the most dynamic and attractive people I know have strong boundaries (not to be confused with having the most boundaries). How? What? That's because boundaries are the deliberate expression of personal power. Not just what you don't want (or want less of), but what you do want (or want more of). Take No Sh*t explores boundaries in depth. How they show up in your life, how they hold you back and how they can skyrocket your relationships. We’ll look at where boundaries came from, how they get stomped, and examine the connection between boundaries and ethics. We'll learn the six main types of boundaries and use questions to help you create your own customized set of healthy boundaries. AND we'll have fun along the way! *smiles* Show Notes About The Guest(s): Heather Kloss is the author of the book "Take No Shit: Build Better Relationships Through Discovering, Creating, and Maintaining Healthy Boundaries in 3, sometimes 5, Simple Steps." She is a therapist and coach who specializes in helping individuals and couples develop healthy boundaries in their relationships. Heather's unique background, which includes hitchhiking across the country and working in a carnival, has led her to believe that boundaries are the key to creating functional and fulfilling relationships. Summary: Heather Kloss joins Chris Voss on The Chris Voss Show to discuss the importance of setting healthy boundaries in relationships. Heather explains that boundaries are a line between the things we want to prioritize and protect in our lives and the things we want less of or are none of our business. She emphasizes that boundaries are crucial for maintaining our energy and resources and for creating a collaborative and fulfilling relationship. Heather outlines the three steps to building better boundaries: setting boundaries, communicating them, and reviewing their effectiveness. She also discusses the importance of understanding and respecting each other's boundaries in order to create a strong and passionate relationship. Key Takeaways: Boundaries are a line between what we want to prioritize and protect and what we want less of or are none of our business. Healthy boundaries are crucial for maintaining our energy and resources and for creating a collaborative and fulfilling relationship. Building better boundaries involves setting boundaries, communicating them, and reviewing their effectiveness. It is important to understand and respect each other's boundaries in order to create a strong and passionate relationship. Quotes: "Boundaries are a line between the things that I want to prioritize and protect in my life and the things that I want less of, don't want, or are none of my business." "The goal is to understand who we are as individuals, bring those individuals to a relationship,

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I do goodreads. Chris Voss won the TikTok. She's the author of the newest book that's just come out, Take No Shit. Build better relationships through discovering, creating, and maintaining healthy boundaries in three, sometimes five, simple steps. Heather Claus is on the show with us today. We'll ask her if she's related to the Santa since Christmas is coming up, and some of you have been very bad boys and girls, so we're going to have to have a look into that and see what we need to do there. If we can get back on the list, maybe she can help us. Heather has lived a very atypical life.

She's hitchhiked across the country, traveled and worked in a carnival for a season. It's probably when she was kidnapped, hijacking across the country. We'll find out how that works. She roamed New York City with with street people she explored and taught alternative lifestyles and more and all her experience thus far have led her to believe that boundaries boundaries i say are the key to not only saving ourselves but our relationships she's a big fan of amazing people enjoying love sex and romance in happy and functional lives what a weird thing to come up with why would you want to be happy uh whatever that might look like from human to human which is why she is

thrilled to share her experience and knowledge of boundaries with us welcome to the show heather how are you i am wonderful chris thank you so much for having me thanks for coming we really appreciate it uh give us your dot coms where can people find you on the interwebs my.curiouser.life there you go my curiouser.life so uh just a fun fact to get out of the way real quick because it's pete my curiosity when you hitchhike across the country were you uh kidnapped and that's why you had to work in the carnival for a season or was this voluntary no it was it was totally voluntary it was a teenage hijink and uh i own it had a great time learned a lot about humanity in a few short months and uh lived to tell the tale there you go and a lot of people don't with the hitchhiking thing evidentlyly. So I'm glad you made it. So give us a 30,000 overview of your new book that you put out. Take no shit, damn it.

Or it's just take no shit. I added the damn part. So take no shit is all about building better boundaries in order to create more functional relationships. There are three, sometimes five simple steps. The first three are step one, set your boundaries. That's the internal work, figuring out what your boundaries are. Step two, say it, communicate your boundaries. Step three, review it. How did that go communicating your boundaries? Did it affect change or not? Step four, which is optional because things might already be fixed, right? Step four would be repeat it. Say what you need to say again, maybe in a different way, have a different conversation, whatever. And then quite possibly step five, which is change. Change what you're willing to accept change your relationship change there you go you know i

uh i i'm shocked at how many people don't know what boundaries are uh especially men in today's world like men especially married men seem to have no idea what boundaries are uh and how to maintain them from a masculine frame um and i'm just i'm always just shocked when i bring it up to people and they're like what's a boundary i think maybe women have a better understanding of it than men uh that's just my pulling but uh what do you find do you find that a lot of people really understand what boundaries are or is this something we really need a lot more education on i think that uh men and women have different challenges with boundaries. So like a lot of people have challenges, like they're really good with their work boundaries, maybe, but not great with their interpersonal boundaries.

Or they're really good with their family, but they're not good with their new significant other. You know, like, So I think everybody has challenges with boundaries in different ways. And that's the key is that also what your boundaries are going to look like and what my boundaries are going to look like are going to be radically different because we're two different humans. We're trying to protect and prioritize different things in our lives and we want to have less of different things in our lives so what you're going to use to protect those things and what you're going to use to keep those things out is going to be different than what i'm going to use okay so what is a boundary let's lay a Okay. So what is a boundary? Let's lay a foundation for

that. What is a boundary specifically? So a boundary is a line between the things that I want to prioritize and protect in my life and the things that I want less of, don't want, or are none of my business. So as the saying goes, outside my boundaries, not my monkeys, not my circus. Inside my boundaries, these are my monkeys. This is my circus. Well, it sounds like this house on Thursdays. I don't know what that means. But it sounds like my underwear on Fridays.

I don't know what that means either. So the boundaries, why is it important that we set them? Why do we need them? Well, especially in relationships. We have been bombarded with this messaging that two must become one. So we end up with this whole, we got to do everything together. We're attached at the hip. We have to be in lockstep.

We have to be in lockstep, we have to be in, you know, groupthink, whatever. And let's be honest, that's why so many relationships fail, right? It's not possible over the long term to be continuously integrated like that. So with boundaries, the goal is to understand who we are as individuals, bring those individuals to a relationship and then co-create or collaborate a relationship in what I call the sweet spot. And the sweet spot is a Venn diagram, big circle. This is what you want. This is what I want, where they overlap. That's the sweet spot, right? So what you want this is what i want where they overlap that's the sweet spot right so if you want to go fishing on saturdays with your buddies and drink beer and um shoot targets more power to you that's not for me that's not part of our sweet spot right, we might enjoy, you know, hiking the mountains together or checking out new food places or whatever that is.

That's a sweet spot. And understanding how we can live our best lives as individuals and have a relationship that serves us both. That is the key. There you go. I love that concept because to me, I've never really been into the we merge as one. I mean, yeah, maybe you're on the same team in a marriage or something like that, but still, you want people to grow as an individual and be their own person so they can be happy. There's a lot of people, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a lot of people that seem to go into relationships where that's like i just lost myself in the relationship it's like how did you how did you lose yourself in the relationship and

i think that's me what you're talking about they tried to fold it into each other and merge it into each other and to me that's just boring as fuck. That's my new book coming out, Boring as Fuck, Relationships 2024. Stay tuned. But, which is probably why I'm still single. But these boundaries thing, a lot of people don't hear about them. And how do we use boundaries for behavior that's problematic? I know I use boundaries for behavior or, you know, like you talked about how maybe, you know, I don't want something around me. It's not my monkeys. Like if you're going to

come talk to me about some stupid meme politics or something, you're horribly uneducated. And when I really don't want to have a conversation with you. Um, and so I'm, I'll create a boundary and say, Hey, you know, we're not, we're not here to have conversations with idiots. No, I don't say that. I say, we're not here talking about politics. Um, but that's the code word. But, um, you know, sometimes you have people that, that, um, you've got to set a lot of boundaries for, there's a lot of monitoring that has to go on with them and, uh, trying to get them to hold their behavior. How do you deal with people like that? And how do you, how do you react when your boundaries are crossed or how should you react when your boundaries are crossed or when people test the fence, if you will?

So in personal relationships, what I say is that if somebody is consistently pushing on your boundaries and you, as you said, need to monitor them constantly, that sounds to me like an untenable relationship. I am not your keeper. I am not your jailer. I am not your mother. I am not here to keep you on the straight and narrow. That is not my job. That's a boundary, right? I am not here to keep you on the straight and narrow like that is not my job that that's a boundary right like i am not here to make you behave like you love me yeah or like you respect what i have to say that's not what i'm here for yeah plus it's a tenet of respect right absolutely you know for men respect is a big thing i I don't, I don't tolerate disrespect from no one. I don't care. Uh, and, um, and, and so when someone's constantly pushing

your boundaries or testing, you know, testing the boundary and seeing if you're for real, uh, it really can get annoying sometimes. Cause you're just like, you don't respect me. Yeah. It's draining. Cause yeah, I like what you said. You know, you don't respect me yeah it's draining because yeah i like what you said you know i don't have time to babysit my boundaries if you can't respect them i don't have time to babysit you i mean not you specifically but you know people that break my boundaries um so how do you deal with those people that constantly you just have to eject them from your life well and there's there's a lot of different things you know when it comes down to you know first you say whatever it is so hey chris i i don't love it when you call me sweet tits right please i'm sorry don't call me sweet tits like that's what my ex called me it just

the feelings are complicated right not positive and so, if you cared about what I had to say or whatever, would probably be like, well, dang, we don't want you thinking of your ex when we're together. So I'm not calling you sweet tits anymore. Right. Done and dusted. That is an ideal yeah now let's say sweet tits is like your favorite pet name ever so you're feeling a little like defensive maybe about like not using that especially because you know it's kind of habitual and so you push back a little bit and you're like sweet tits come on it's just sweet tits it's just it's silly lots of people say that it's just a phrase. There's nothing to worry about, right? So that's where I go. And I'm like, well, I'm reviewing this and that didn't go as well as I'd like it to go.

Note to self, tell my girlfriend to quit calling me sweet tits. And then, so the idea then would be, okay, is it worth it to me to have this conversation again and be more clear with you? Or at that point, do I just want to change the access that we have to each other? Or do I really, I mean, and there's always the possibility of me saying, you know what? This is on me. This is my trauma. And it's not really that big a deal. So I'm just going to give up being upset about it. That is also taking control from my inside,

my boundaries, right? I can change my mind. I can do specific self-work and say, you know what? He keeps leaving dishes by the sink. I end up having to do those dishes instead of putting them in the dishwasher and it just being automatic. I have to rinse them off. I have to put them in the dishwasher. And yet, if I think about it, I have to do all the dishes in my house if I'm single, right? And on top of it, I would miss doing his dishes, right? I would miss not having him around. If that were the big thing that broke us up, I would feel like an asshole, right? So you can change what you get upset about as well. Maybe not all of the time. And you should never try to make somebody else change

what they get upset about. But the power of having boundaries is we can choose our boundaries and what we are willing to accept and what we are absolutely not willing to accept. What are we willing to say? You know what? That's not that big a deal.

And what are absolute non-compromisables? And I like what you said there that sometimes you can look at your own boundary or why you feel that you're having, you're feeling the need to set a boundary and maybe it is a personal trauma or it's some sort of personal thing. And maybe it is good to take a hard look at that and go oh why am i why am i making a big deal of this is it really worth is this the hill i want to die on sort of thing um and uh um i like the other aspect too uh you you kind of alluded to it i think where basically you know the first thing i do when i set a boundary and someone crosses it i ask myself and i do this with leadership and running companies.

I kind of get used to it. I ask myself, did I communicate it effectively? And so I have to revisit the second time, as you mentioned, and say, okay, I think we had a conversation about this, and maybe I didn't communicate it effectively. Or just maybe you're a fucking idiot. But no, I don't say that. I think that, though. But maybe I need to communicate this better. And then I make sure that's laid down.

So two times you got your warning shot across the bow, don't cross the line anymore. If it's a huge habitual behavior, though, like if they said they're going to quit smoking and they quit and then it came back and so on and so forth, sometimes it takes a little more part of what you get to determine as part of your boundaries is how much are you willing to take? The key is to say, I am making this choice, not they are forcing me to put up with it. Right? I am choosing, I will give this six months. I will give everything I have to this relationship for the next six months or a year or whatever it is. And I will see what we can do to improve it. And then I'll make a decision and mark it in your calendar, you know, have the alarms go off and then you make the decision.

Now, why do the, why does setting healthy boundaries make, make better relationships? Why do they create, you know, better simpatico between human beings? beings um because humans have a hard time um knowing when to speak up right like so like this little thing annoys us we're like oh you know i really like this person i don't want to say anything and but once that whole honeymoon period wears off that little thing plus all the other you know 1012 other little things that we just sort of let slide those are going to come raging back and create resentment and bitterness and distance and annoyance like that whole joke i used to make is that well i still make it um sex when it's good is 20 of the relationship when it's bad or not happening at all it's 80 of the relationship and that's when you start really getting in arguments about whether the toilet

paper roll is on the correct way or the seat was left up or the dishes were left by the sink instead of in the dishwasher. Not just sex, but when you start to feel too entangled and you're not like super rose colored glasses anymore right you need to start asserting your independence and figuring out what the relationship looks like once you're not like in bed all the time yeah isn't that funny how that whole thing works out uh so uh boundaries are super important you know and we're coming up on uh what is it, Thanksgiving and Christmas time. A lot of people have those fights at Christmas, conversations at Christmas. Sometimes you have to set boundaries like, I'm sorry, Uncle Joe, you can't hug me as long as you want, and I'm not sitting on your lap.

I've got a lot of girlfriends who have an Uncle Joe. It's like, I hate going, Uncle Joe. He hugs me, and he hugs me really weird again. Anyway, and I'm like, wow, okay. So, we don't have to go. I mean, we can go get some dinner at some Chinese restaurant if I don't care. But, you know, sometimes there's conversations that are going to take place that, you know, you're always going to have the political sides of whatever, and then you're going to have some controversy. Nutball Uncle Joe is going to come in and tell you about how, I don't know,

John F. Kennedy is running the presidency or some crap, and you're just like, we're just trying to eat turkey here, man. We're just trying to eat turkey and just get along and love each other. And so these are some good things to have. But I think you're right. You mentioned earlier a lot of people are some, these are some good things to have, but I think, you know, you're right. You mentioned earlier, a lot of people like, I'll just let it slide. You know, she's hot or maybe women think, uh, you know, he's hot. I don't know how I won't think.

Um, but, uh, he's a keeper. Okay. Um, and, uh, so you're like, ah, you know, that'd be deal. You know, I'm just going to let go. But then all of a sudden, you know, and then you feel like a dick because you've got to finally say, hey, you know that thing that you're always doing? That actually bugs the fuck out of me. Yeah. And then you feel like a jerk because that person's going, well, you pretend like you liked it this whole time for six months. And you're just like, no, I really didn't like it.

Or it's actually kind of drawn on me. And then, you know, and so people are reluctant to set boundaries over that, correct? Yeah, people are super reluctant to do that. Because, I mean, okay, I've got a chapter in my book that is literally, it's not your fault. Right? We are raised to do what our parents say. We're raised to do what our teachers say we are raised to you know follow the rules and get along to go along and you know keep your

traps shut don't make waves all of these things and depending on um like the culture you were raised in or whatever it's going to be different variations of that. But overall, nearly all of us have been raised to have crap-taculous boundaries. And then even worse, when we get into our first like relationships, ah, young love, right? Where we don't know squat about how to have a relationship. And so we say to our first partner, Hey, um, I really don't like it when you do, what do you mean? Don't you love me anymore? Oh, you know, like if you really loved me, you wouldn't say things like that. Right. So not only do we learn for that relationship, not to say things like that, but then all of us carry that trauma,

little t, not capital T, but carry that trauma forward into all of our other relationships. Well, gosh, maybe I shouldn't bring that up because then they're going to feel like I don't love them. And then we're going to have this long drawn out conversation and it's going to suck and we're going to cry and we're both going to feel bad. So I'm just not even going to say that until such a time as it all builds up to a freaking mighty explosion inside my brain. And suddenly we're in the middle of a dumpster fire. Yep. Suddenly you're buying a shovel and bag of lye and digging a ditch in the backyard.

Wait. Going out to visit the pig farm. Wait. Yeah. Wow. Okay. You went there. Uh, there you go.

Yes. I. I was a fan. Do people know where your ex-boyfriends are? I'm just curious. They've been in public lately? Anyway, but no. You know, you're really right. I see it from a man's perspective because I've been a man.

Last time I checked, I've been a man. Hopefully, I still am. it from a man's perspective because i've been a man uh last time i checked i've been a man hopefully it makes sense uh and so i don't i don't you know well i know what a man's experience is and then i have a lot of uh man dude friends uh husband types that uh you know walked into that whole uh what they call prison no i mean marriage marriage um anyway they i do the jokes people um and they you know they have these attitudes of happy wife happy life you know let it let it roll make her happy uh yeah it bugs the crap out of me yeah she disrespects me i feel shit test but happy wife happy life and then it's just this slow roll into into a hellscape when and then when i hang out i'm like you're letting that go on like i would never tolerate that in a million years like i should be on a space shuttle to mars right now um somebody talks to me that way um but a lot of guys have

the problem setting boundaries like most most men i talk to are like with the boundary and i'm like dude this is why you you know this is why your wife hasn't had sex with you in 10 years um and uh it's really important to set boundaries uh especially as a man i think women look for that sort of um they look for a man who stands up for himself and can set boundaries and can provide structure in an alpha frame where he can say, hey, you know, this isn't cool with me. I don't think women like a man who's a pushover. I don't know. I could be wrong. I think humans in general. One of the functions of boundaries is not just to keep out what you don't want, but to maintain your energy and resources for the things that are a priority to you. Right.

So if you look at it from that standpoint, it is really hard to be passionate about somebody who can't bring it. And if they are, as you said, like a doormormat then they're not bringing it right they're not bringing the passion to you you're not bringing the passion to them it's all a big muddle it's hard to be passionate about somebody that you feel like you have to like mother yeah or you know check their phone to make sure they're not doing what they were doing last week or, you know, like this is where it all goes to hell is, you know, we start giving in on these little things that really in the long run don't matter. We start giving up on that time with our besties. We start giving up on the outdoor activities that fill us up in order to make somebody else happy. But the thing is, when we met, we were filling ourselves up.

And so now we're doing that. Oh, well, I don't want you going on that trip this weekend. Well, yes, you know what? You are going to miss me. And when I come back, we'll have some amazing sex because you missed me and I'll miss you. Right. And because I'll go fill myself up in the outdoors,

breathing in mountain air on a hike or whatever with the dudes. And I'll come back and be excited to see you. There you go you know like this is the type of thing that people miss this individuality in relationships like how do and even with kids how do you and i collaborate on creating the best life possible for each of us. And people are so much better off if they can go refill their cups outside of the relationship. You know, like you said, you can actually, they can miss each other. But, you know, I've had friends that I'm like, hey, are we golfing anymore?

No, the wife says I can't golf anymore. There's sunny dudes at home and she doesn't like. I'm out hanging out and just doing whatever. Um, and you know, which belies insecurity in their relationship where she doesn't trust him or something. Or, and it's entirely possible that there's a reason for her not to trust him. Right.

Like we don't know what, we don't know what started that whole downhill slide. I mean, it could be, she has trauma from past relationships. It could be, he's from past relationships it could be he's a dick but ultimately she's let's let's turn this around to her she's doing herself a disservice making her his mommy his jailer you know like that's not gonna lead to passion and fire and deep love and trust.

Yeah. Because once you, once you turn a woman from, you know, your passionate lover to where she's your mom, she takes on a matriarchal role and then she doesn't have a sexual attraction anymore. That's,

that's what a lot of guys don't realize when you do that whole, I want my wife to be my mom. And, and you know, anytime one of my friend's wives is like, I have five kids at home. You know, they have four kids and, you know, they call the husband the fifth kid. I'm just like, oh, my God. That sounds like an awful situation. And it feels so disrespectful.

Yeah. And if I were a girlfriend, you'd joke about that. It'd probably be a boundary fence going up real quick. We're not going to have a conversation here. But you know what? We're socialized like that. We watch TV shows where this is normal behavior and there's a laugh track and people are like, oh, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And everybody's like, oh, that's so jolly.

Look at these silly humans. Look at this man just being a kind of galumph and going through life and look at her just getting things done and being the power person uh you talk about stop begging for what you want and need uh do you find a lot of people that should be setting boundaries uh are doing a lot of begging is that kind of a sign that people can i mean go think about these guys that we're talking about you know like think about are they getting the sexy times that they need in their relationships and how much of what they do do you think is them begging by giving up their boundaries to get more of that never realizing that they're actually

almost assuring they're going to get less pretty much yeah it's the same thing let's let me just turn this around it's the same thing with women right because we many of us will often go into a relationship and men do this too like Like this, these cross genders, we're going generalizations here, but you know, some men will do this too in that they will give love and affection and caretaking in the hopes of getting that kind of passion and feeling of belonging back. But the thing is, is when somebody is giving you that feeling of belonging only by doing the things they want and not actually filling you up

with all of the other things, that's when you start in this, what I call a control or be controlled relationship pattern. I want to get you to do this for me and in return i will do this for you and that leads to covert contracts that's like yeah covert contracts i love this man you write a whole book on that thing oh yes and i talk i do talk about covert contracts in the book for sure because that's like a it's sort of like a boundary blackmail

i did this for you therefore you can't complain you know when i ask you to do this for me yep i i i i have i hate that stuff i'm very good at picking it up i've kind of learned the hard way too about it but i'm really good at like wait what what what's going on what did i agree to do oh you know i'll hear something on the slide okay we're gonna read on that i'm like what what are we hearing i'm really good at tracking this stuff down i've learned the hard way over the years uh you know i had somebody pull a a contract uh thing on me the other day on linkedin they sent me a spam message going hey and, and I guess they're connected with me so they can keep sending spam messages. And they sent me some spammy message. I just

ignored it because I ain't got better things to do. And, uh, and then he, the guy wrote back a couple of days later and he said, Hey, I didn't hear back from you on this spam message. I say, you, um, but Hey, so I don't contact you again can you just let me know either way if you're interested and i was pissed i was like did you just fucking put put a contract on me that extorts me where if i don't answer you back to giving you yes or no then you're just gonna keep fucking harassing me are you fucking out of your fucking mind you know where that happens a lot where dating sites like they'll send a message right and you're off doing life yeah you're doing life and then

another message like you know an hour later and you're still you're doing life and then they'll send another message and then and this is primarily dudes to like me then they'll be like well i see that you know you just don't have the time to respond to me and i was just trying to be nice you're not really all that attractive anyway see you next tuesday So passive. Is that passive aggressive or aggressive? I mean, it's passive. The backhanding part of it. On the plus side, every time I get a message like that, I'm like, thank you so much for showing me exactly who you are. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a good flush out when that happens. I have the opposite where women will say to me, how come you're not like the other guys that don't just sit there and help my leg and text message me 5,000 times a day. It's like, I I'm making money and I got shit to do and my life's purpose. And you know, I don't, you're, we'll go out when we go out.

I don't. And even when you find just the right connection, it'll work. You'll either have more time or they'll be perfect with your, you know, circumstances and it'll find its way to work. At this point, I'll be single forever. But that's. That is also a choice. But no, it's funny. But like you say, you have dating dating sites i've seen people freak out

uh what was that old movie that i thought was really funny you're so fucking money and the guy gets the girl's number and and and his buddy tells him don't call that thing for 48 hours and he calls her and then he leaves like 50 000 messages yeah yeah that's what that kind of reminds you of but yeah boundaries are so important people need to realize that and i think in my opinion men especially i think i think women are more masters of relationships and and better at i don't know i could be wrong maybe i'm giving it too much credit but i think we're better at relationships i've been in dating and relationships um since the early 2000s i used to ghost write for pickup artists and so on and so forth i've seen this from both sides in fact i've seen it from the entire spectrum of gender sexuality orientation whatever pretty much everyone is crap at boundaries

well this is why they all need your book. Pretty much everyone. Absolutely. Every single person in the world needs to buy this book for sure. I mean, I'm not biased or anything, but I wrote it for a reason. And when it comes right down to it, we all know probably one person. Most of us know just one person, unless we've got really, really good boundaries ourselves. But most of us know that one person who always seems to be able to speak their mind comfortably, be entirely authentic about who they are. They show up.

They always have energy for the people that they're with because that is their priority right this moment. They never say yes when they don't mean it. Right. Like, you know, they are there with you because they want to be there with you. Yeah.

Those are the people who have good boundaries. Yeah. To me, it's so important. And I'm really wary of stuff. stuff like i those secret contracts you mentioned and silent contracts or whatever i i'm really aware of that stuff i'm really aware you know i've had all sorts of people pull stuff with me and you know as you know from the singles market you meet a lot of people and there's always people that try and play you or capture you or try and you know they're trying to get in your head or shit test or another thing as a man you have to get really used to.

And you have to sit there and go, okay, wait, now why? People always talk about how men, we're always so quiet and we think about things and we take our time answering shit. It's because we're trying to figure out where it's coming from why it's coming and you know we try we're like okay so what what's this about and what are my options and what do i have to lose uh so but boundaries are so important um you know especially when it comes to respect for men respect is a big deal it's almost bigger than sex really sex is a part of paying respect to us uh and respecting and love to us respect is like really intertwined with love to us and i see so many men um i can't speak for women because i don't i'm not a woman but i see so many men that don't set boundaries and they have that uh happy wife uh just make her happy i'm sure it'll be fun. And, you know, me and one of their wives are just

crapping all over them. Oh, one thing I wanted to talk to, speak to is, people can't see this on Amazon, but the back of your book has boundaries are a, I'll set that up for you. What is it? So, boundaries are a

shit shield. And you have a picture of an umbrella with shit raining down you got to see the you got to see the animation boys and girls but yeah uh you've got a picture of an umbrella and shit's raining down i love this it's a shit shield it is um it's actually it's an otter wearing victorian clothing holding an umbrella with little poops hanging, you know, raining down on the umbrella. And that's a funny story because when I started writing this book, part of the research I did since I had been, you know, a decade and a half into having set my boundaries and learning to live my life boundary full, I started interviewing people through all walks of life about their

boundaries. And I wanted to find out more about the beginner's mindset. Again, I wanted to find out about people in different stages, what types of boundary challenges people have had. A lot of these people and examples are actually in the book. and one of the people that i spoke to you know we were talking and she said my therapist called boundaries a shit shield and i said aha right like that's it it's it's so true like you you can literally like one of those big clear police shields you know people are just throwing it at you and you see it splat and then run down and it is not affecting you at all. There you go. You got me with the imagery on that.

That got right into my head. But, you know, yeah, you're sick of people's shit. So you say, hey, man, we got to set up some boundaries here. And how do you sell boundaries? How do you explain to people that this is not only healthy for them, but it's really healthy for you? And I've had to explain to sometimes the people that, hey, I had some trauma in my life and I have some, and I think I've dealt with most of it, but I don't deal well with people gaslighting me. And I,

I certainly do better with it than I ever have before, but I don't like, I don't like dishonest people. I don't like people that don't have fucking integrity. So anyway, so I don't want them in my life. It doesn't, that doesn't even,

it may be based on my trauma, but I try and surround myself with uplifting, uh, people that are going someplace instead of having to lie through the world. And so, you know, that's important to me just from an aspect of, of, of, um, good humanity or, or, uh, whatever you want to call it, good morals. Um, but still it will bug me if people lie to me consistently because partially it triggers my trauma a little bit but also i i go you're full of shit and i don't want people around me they're full of shit because i'm full of shit and that's my job um you're a professional addict i'm a professional

full of shitter so you won't catch me but i'll catch you today see how that works did you try to bullshit today yeah what movie is that from uh history of the world part one that's right that's what a great reference so um how how do you communicate to people that this is healthy you know because like you say early in the show you talked about how people play it off like oh come on i'm just using a term that's you know that's funny and i'm just being cute and flirty and you know, that's funny and I'm just being cute and flirty and, you know, and you're like, no, that really, that really hurts me or offends me or bothers me. How do you communicate with them effectively how important it is for you

so that they kind of go, oh, wow, I can empathize with what, how've that makes you feel so i i would say there's two parts to that answer um one part is and i'm gonna i'm gonna brag a little bit so um heather shannon uh is a therapist and she wrote the foreword for my book and she had amazing glowing things to say and one of the things she said after saying all these wonderful things about me is, unless you think that I'm too easy to please, I don't like 90% of what's said out there about boundaries because it's so aggressive and it focuses so much in on conflict. So, which takes me to the second part of it. First, you have to know kind to say something so that you're actually communicating with the other person, not just talking at them. You mean I can't scream at them? I mean, but how well do you listen to what other people have to say when they're screaming at you?

Wait, I have to do that? Right? Yeah. Oh, man, this is too much work. And then the second half of this is I have a chapter in my book called the other side ethics, where I talk about ethics and boundaries being two sides of the same coin. And the best way to live a life where your boundaries are honored is to work with others and encourage them to set boundaries and honor their boundaries.

So when you're having these conversations, talk about not just, I can't stand this, but also how about let's talk about the types of things that neither one of us want to experience within a conversation. Right. And we build instead of, because, you know, a lot of people talk about,

you know, conflict and cooperation and what's the big one? Battle. Oh, compromise. Yeah. I give, I give a piece of me,

you give a piece of you and we both end up with less. Right. How about let's look at collaborate or co-create, you know, the container that we exist within. So gaslighting, for example, how about instead of saying, I don't ever want to be gaslit. You know, let's talk about you and I, let's talk about honesty. Let's talk about validating each other. Let's talk about trying to understand each other. And if we ever feel like it's sliding, one of the things I talk about that I bring in from alternative lifestyles is the idea of safe wording. You know, we have an agreed upon thing where one of us says, you know,

hey, don't love the way this conversation is going. We're both getting kind of emotional. Can we set this to the side? Maybe we'll email each other for the next couple of days while we're still like, you know, even together, but we can like send emails with our thoughts on the topic that aren't super emotional and head up. And then we'll come back to this, you know, Tuesday at dinner.

And that way, what we're doing again, the whole goal is how can you and I collaborate on creating the best life for both of us? Not how can I talk you into allowing me to do this shit that I want to do that you don't want to do. You should do couples therapy. So I do coaching one-on-one and I also have worked with couples who have had, you know, a couple of challenges here and there. And you know, this is the type of thing where people get caught in these traps, these patterns of relating to one another. And there's a lot of ways to handle those, right? Like, you know, therapy, that's absolutely, you know, go to therapy, get yourself right. If you need to get your head put on right whatever also from where you are now

how do you take take those steps forward to where you want to be right and that's that's what i focus on is what gets us from here to there what would instead of what would jesus, what would future me do? I do what would Pontius Pilate do. So kill everyone's firstborn. Crucify, crucify, crucify. That's pretty much how I roll. Especially when people cross my boundaries. But I'm going to learn so much. I think a lot of us are going to learn a lot from this. Give us your final plugs. Tell us how people can onboard with you for your coaching and different things, service you offer as we go out. So my.curiouser.life.

You can find links to the book on Amazon and all the different Amazons. You can find a link to my daily boundaries app for Apple and Android. You can find my take no shit workshop. You can find how to get coaching with me either one-on-one or like I said, if you are a couple and you'd like to do that, I'm here for that as well. And you can contact me through there. You can find social media through there. You can see a couple of videos of me through there. You can find out all the podcasts that I've been on through there. You can find social media through there. You can see a couple of videos of me through there.

You can find out all the podcasts that I've been on through there. Really easy. My.curiouser.life. There you go. I think you should go on TikTok shop because that's really huge right now. In fact, it's giving Amazon a run for the money. You should sell the boundary shit umbrellas. I think that would be cool.

You know, you could, you get like, on the back of your book, they look like little Pringle cones, little diamonds. And so what you could do is you sell an umbrella and it just, it says boundary on it, big giant boundary word, my boundary umbrella. And then it just has little stuck. I love it. I agree. I definitely need to do this. Yeah. it's great pr too you just walk down new york city with that thing and people be like what is that

and you're like buy the book you'll find out there you go this is why they pay me five dollars a day uh so thank you very much for coming the show i think this is a real important topic for everybody as you said both men and and women need to understand boundaries, and I think it would make relationships a whole lot better. But then where would I be if relationships were better? Because I've been single all my life. I mean, my dating pool would contract, so we can't have that. We need divorce lawyers in my life. So thank you very much for coming on, Heather. It's been fun to have you on as well. Thanks to my audience for tuning in.

Go to goodreads.com, FortressCruzFoss, LinkedIn.com, FortressCruzFoss, YouTube.com, FortressCruzFoss, and ChrisFoss1 on the tickety-tockety. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.