The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand: A Personal and Professional Playbook by Henry Wong

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand: A Personal and Professional Playbook by Henry Wong Henry Wong's personal website: henrywong.co View Branding: vyoo brand.com Today, everything and everyone is a brand. If you want to develop your personal brand, but can’t afford the fees of a branding firm, this book provides access and insights into a thought-leading mind. For entrepreneurs and professionals looking to manage their business career, it’s more than just theory. It’s part step-by-step guide, part story-sharing written to inspire and help bring your own brand to life. Here, branding expert Henry Wong shares his process to help you compete in the market and workplace. About the Guest(s): Henry Wong is a brand strategist, creative director, designer, and writer. He is the president and brand strategist at View, a branding and content company he founded which focuses on impact companies. Based in Toronto, Henry has a rich history spanning over 25 years in senior advertising positions, including being an executive VP creative director for the global ad agency, Saatchi and Saatchi. He has also bought and sold boutique ad agencies and continues to counsel and advise brands and organizations. Henry’s industry recognition includes awards from Creativity, Clio, and Marketing among others. He is the author of the book "Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand: A Personal and Professional Playbook," which offers insights into building a personal and professional brand.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go, ladies and gentlemen. The Iron Lady sings And that makes it official Welcome to the big show We certainly appreciate you guys Taking the time To spend with the Chris Voss Show Because Chris Voss Show Is a family that loves you

But doesn't judge you And that's the best kind of family there is We love you Unless you're evil Then we have some issues with you But the rest of the time We love you And we bring you

The most amazing minds The most amazing thoughtful people The intellectuals The brilliant folks The people who write the books the people who win the polls or prizes they're the journalists they're why has presidential advisors the billionaires you know the CEOs all the smart people and then of course one dumb host I came together right at the end I tie that nicely we have an amazing gentleman on the show as always when do we not have amazing authors on the show? He's the author of the newest book that

came out August 12th, 2022. It's called Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand, A Personal and Professional Playbook by Henry Wong. He's going to be joining us on the show to talk about his amazing insights that can help you build your personal brand in his company view oh henry wong is a brand strategist creative director designer and writer he is the president and brand strategist of view a branding and content company he founded that focuses on impact companies he is currently based in toronto and he has guided small upstarts and SMEs to 500 level companies. His roots span over 25 years of senior positions in the advertising industry,

including being an executive VP, creative director for the global ad agency, Saatchi and Saatchi. Since then, he has brought, he has bought and sold boutique ad agencies and continues to counsel and advise brand organizations as well as individuals. His industry recognition includes awards from Creativity, Clio, and Marketing, among others. Welcome to the show, Henry. How are you?

Wonderful, especially after that intro. You really make me sound much better than I am. I know. I've had people ask me, they're like, can you follow me around and introduce me anytime I walk into a room? Especially with that voice. It's just amazing, soothing, and very authoritative. Thank you. I should, you know, if you have a wife and kids, you need me to like authoritate when you're coming into the room. Hear ye, hear ye. All stand and rise for father.

And you know, that sort of thing. Maybe. I think that would be great. Anywhere but the bedroom, of course. Oh, well, I mean, we can work thing, maybe. I think that would be great. Any work about the bedroom, of course. Oh, well, I mean, we can work on that. We'll talk later after the show. No, I'm just kidding. It's just jokes, people.

But, yeah, that might be an AM. We do a lot of OnlyFans callback jokes on the show because it makes such a great thing. So maybe that could be like my new OnlyFans project, my new OnlyFans channel. Announcing people. You can do a play-by-play. I can just set up like the whole play-by-play, like the NFL. And now it looks like John is going to the second base there. Never mind.

Anyway, your book, Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand. We're building an OnlyFans brand here, evidently. Tell us about the 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? You know, it was really a book that culminates, I guess, my many years in business through, I guess, the last sort of lockdown during COVID. I was able to spend a lot of time capturing a lot of the methods that I use to exact a brand. So it's a step-by-step, it's a little bit of a self-help book. I found that there were quite a few people who

approached me who unfortunately couldn't afford the fees that I charged them. I thought I'm overly expensive, but the book gave it a great insight and a good play-by-play that allowed people to begin putting their brand together. There you go. Telling your story and building your brand. I've heard conflicting reports online that building your brand is important. That seems to have been going around for a long time. There's some people that are trying to, they call it unbranding or unmarketing and stuff or whatever. And they think the brands aren't quite as important.

What's your take on that sort of noise that's going around? You know, I think a lot of people tend to interpret, you know, they simply say, I have to work on my brand. And they think that means getting on social media, getting out there, building a presence. But it's much more than that. And for people I work with, it's really about centering on what makes you unique. What is your position in the market? Once you understand that, that's easy to tell the story. Because the worst thing that happens is often we're at a networking event, for example.

People go, hey, Henry, good to meet you. What do you do? And what happens is they go into this long litany of their resume and they talk completely off topic and you begin seeing people's eyes glaze over. So the idea behind this, of course, is to really focus on what makes you special. What is your story? And if it relates well to what the core offering is that you have, whether it's as a CEO or simply a supplier, then you've begun centering on making a connection. So story has always been important. Story has been a way, a conduit to getting to really getting people to like you, of course. Yeah.

I mean, people should like me? That's important? Why? You know, I think so much of it really comes down to that. Because if you begin comparing all the services out there, all the people out there, it's that often that likability. Because if I asked you, what's your, what is your favorite brand? And you, you may, you know, tout Nike or you may tout, let's say Apple. And I may drill a little bit deeper and ask you, why is that?

And you might talk about, you know, the technology behind it, but ultimately, you know, it comes down to simply, I happen to like that brand. And I find that time and time again. So the likability is an important aspect of what your brand is all about. Yeah, because you don't want to be a brand that everyone hates. That doesn't work out too well from what I understand understand or at least be a little bit less polarizing ah there you go that's always good you should have you talked to elon musk anyway this is the story so do you help people on how to build that story and form that story as to what makes them unique you know you

hear your great stories you know like apple and other brands how do you figure that out and i guess you help them in the book walk that through yeah so it really does follow the process that i've used for well over 25 years whether it's a product or service or a person and it's really trying to figure out what makes you truly unique every one of us has a unique origin story and And once you understand what it is that sets you apart from everybody else, you can then begin retracing those roots to the beginning. So I often use comic books or even superhero movies as an example. And then, as you recall, whether you're Peter Parker or Captain America, there's a little bit of an

origin to you because what it does is help you begin to connect with the person and empathize with their journey. So part of that is sharing elements of it so that you can share with other people so that they can begin identifying, empathizing, and hopefully connecting with you in a positive way. So that's really the first step is to understand what your story is and then find a way to shape it so that people can obviously accept it. Because I could go on forever talking about my background, but you're really not interested. So really what I want to do is get to the essence of what my story is all about. There you go. And why do people find that

the story is so important? Like, why is it important to people and consumers, etc., etc.? No, I don't fully understand the why, but I've analyzed a lot of studies, and it shows that we tend to gravitate more to stories than simply facts. And it's really by, I think, we're genetically wired that way from the beginnings of hunter and gathering around the campfire where we shared stories it was a way of of sharing experiences and and a real example is much more powerful than simply going you know listing again all the attributes of why i'm great or all the attributes of why this product is great.

And so stories, I mean, we always talk here about stories are the owner's manual to life. That's how people learn. That's how we kind of get through crises and issues and how we realize that we're not alone in the universe. And that's how we entertain. But even then, even entertainment, it's kind of learning. We're learning about characters and morals and ethics, and there's so much we learn from stories. Absolutely.

And you probably remember from the early days of when your parents sat you down before you went to bed once upon a time, and you were engaged. So that whole idea of sharing a story is super engaging and can connect you very well with your audience. And imagine the visualization nature of a story. Because if you just bark facts at people, like, what do you do? We do the internet, 5,000 speed, upload, download.

It's always on. It's really cool. You'll like it. People are like, what do you say but if you tell a story about what you know the meaning is behind your brand and what it means and sometimes they listen to your story and they go so what is it that you do exactly so i guess there's some there could be some disillusion in the in the in the in your story that doesn't communicate effectively. Yeah.

So master storytellers know how to stay on target. They know how to stay connected with their audience. And they know sort of the push points of it. I talk a little bit about in my book, and I did a lot of analysis of con artists, for example, and they're wonderful storytellers. And they're wonderful people in engaging you and pulling you in. And it's not that we want to follow and become evil like them, but there's something quite engaging about someone who has that gift of gab and that ability to be able to share something that hooks you in and suddenly find yourself opening up your wallet, opening up your checkbook.

And that's the effectiveness of a good story. You know, it's funny if I could share, I've been in advertising for well over 25 years. So I have a little bit of a cynical approach when it comes to hearing pitches and hearing sales and that. I remember one time years ago, a woman knocked at my door. It was a rainy night and I opened the door and she said, I've just moved into the neighborhood. And unfortunately, I parked my car down the street and it got towed away. And I was wondering if you could loan me $100 so I could get it out of the impound. And the ad guy in me goes, OK, you're conning me.

And I said, you know what? I think I've heard this story before. And she simply smiled and then kind of, okay, thank you. Good night. But she knew the power of a story. She knew the idea that if she could connect with me and get my sympathy, then I would follow through and, you know, follow through to in what marketing we call the call to action.

Her call to action is give me $100. Wow. Call to action is really important and everything else. What are some other aspects of your book we haven't talked about? You know, I think it's also really understanding who you are as a person. So there's a lot of exercises to help you go through that. And whether you do personality tests or you do enneagrams or your astrology, it's really a composite of who you are. What I tend to do with a lot of brands and people is interview the people close to you, around you, your colleagues, your friends, and that forms a more composite, composed picture of you. Because if I simply asked you, Chris, tell me a little bit about yourself, I think you'd spin a wonderful tale of the background.

But it's really only your perspective on it. So the idea is to be a little bit more objective. And what we do is apply a lot of the marketing principles that I use to try to get to the essence of who you are. From there, I can then determine how you might be able to sit amongst all your competition. That's referred to as positioning. Once we work out that positioning, then we then determine what ultimately is the uniqueness of that. And from that, there's a message that comes out of it.

From that message now comes the rest of the story. So then do you begin to formulate the story? So too many people start right away with the story or right away to your point of call to action and don't get to the essence of what might make me special, what might make me connected with you in some way. There you go. Tell us a little bit about yourself. People like to hear your origin stories of our authors as well. How did you grow up? What influenced you? What made you get into the businesses that you're in and where you're at now? You know, I often try to work out that route. I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, we often have a circuitous route to, you know, where we are today because we've tried many things.

But I think back on my early days and, you know, my beginnings were really quite humble. I grew up in the back of a Chinese restaurant. Didn't speak a word of English. I was a new, you know, my parents were new immigrants. I was born here in Toronto. And they put me to work at a very early age. So they're peeling apples, peeling carrots. And when I became of age and I began learning English,

and it became my, of course, adopted language, they put me to the front of the house where I took cash. I interacted with customers. So I was like that little short round from Indiana Jones, fast talking little kid. And I found by sharing stories by, you know, really understanding all the different people who walk through whether it was a truck driver or family, or a couple coming in for the evening, I found different ways to engage with them. And I think that really formed my ability to connect with people and tell stories. So years later, of course, that came in quite handy as I entered into the advertising world.

And story is a key part of it because you look at any sort of commercial, a 30-second commercial that I used to write and produce, it really is just a mini story that we're trying to create. There you go. So tell us about your company, Vue, and how does it work? Well, Vue really, I started back in 2016. I'd gone through a number of different entities of partnerships on buying and selling. And the previous company, one of my early partners, unfortunately, had passed away. He had been suffering from Alzheimer's for a number of years. And at that point, I decided to take a little bit of a reset on the type of company and the type of clients I wanted to take on.

So when I started with you, it was really with the whole idea of only working with impact companies, companies that want to make a difference in the world. So I thought that that time would be a quiet way to kind of slow down, begin to take on less business and that. And surprisingly, the opposite happened. More and more people came to me because they were very much aligned with what my mission was and what my purpose was in starting the company. So I often write about that in terms of understanding what your purpose is, whether you run a company or you as an individual, because once you begin to comprehend that, you can bring more people on side. You can bring the people on with the same vision, the same sort of goals that you have. And ultimately it comes down to, you know, I think

you can't be everything to everybody, but you can be the right thing to the right people. So understanding who you are, I think, really begins to shape the client base that you have or the type of followers that you really want or the type of people you want to engage with. So should CEOs and companies internal have a story? Yeah, very much i mean everybody has something that drives them to begin a company or to lead a company quite often they may put on a little bit of a face but when i peel back the layers i find that you know this is often something that truly motivates them and excites them and gets them to you know whether it's money or whether it's the you know the mission of the company there's often a reason for them to get up in the morning.

Yeah, I need to get that. I need to have like a, I don't know if I have a mission or a story. Maybe I do. I don't know. You probably do. I mean, you know, you've been doing this for many, many years quite successfully and you obviously enjoy it. You love engaging with people.

And I think there's something about you as a person, and we've only recently met, of course, but you seem to have a wonderful curiosity about you. And I think that's obviously what drives you and connects you well with people. Yeah, it does. I really like people. And I kind of had, somewhere in my life,

I began being a story collector like you were in the early days of your parents' restaurant. Stories became, you know, watching people, understanding their motives, their belief systems, why they did things. That shaped me really very largely on. I was trying to survive my childhood and trying to understand why the world seemed really freaking crazy. And I'm still trying to figure it out. But no, I've learned to really like people because, number one, I'm sick of me. I've spent 56 years with me and I'm tired of all my stories and my stupid shit.

And so it's more interesting to engage with other people and listen to their stories. And life is like this whole wilderness of mirrors, this whole journey that you go through. And there's, you know, probably millions of different pathways and forks in the road and different things you do. And it's interesting to me to talk to people about the journey they took, why they took it, why they chose one fork in the road over another. I find it very interesting i

find people very interesting what motivates them i think i think i forget his name king of the cnn radio guy don king oh larry king larry king yeah for some reason i always stick to don king with the fight promote but larry king you know i heard him say one time he goes i like interviewing people because i'm really interested in them. He goes, when I go on a plane, I talk to people. When I go on an elevator, I talk to people. He goes, I'm always curious about people. I thought, you know, that's really cool.

You watch Anthony Bourdain. Anthony Bourdain and his show would, you know, he would be openly curious about people from different cultures, different races, different parts of life you know like religions you know it makes such a huge difference doesn't it when you engage with people you break bread with them you know and that's what we used to do in the old days we would break bread with strangers they would come to our house and and we would break bread with them even though they were strangers and and the exchange was we would feed them and house them, and they would tell us their stories of the road and life. They were kind of like our TV back then because, you know, we were just living in weird tribes out there in the middle of nowhere. And we hadn't invented electricity yet, evidently.

And those are real stories, which makes it even more salient and more connected to your own experience. But I think you're absolutely right. This whole idea of being curious is just a wonderful skill to have. I think I received one of the best compliments when I was reading a biography of myself and it described Henry Wong as being very interested. And I thought, oh, at first I thought it was a typo. I shouldn't say very interesting, but then I realized, no, no, they deliberately wrote it that way. And it made perfect sense because, you know, like you, by nature, I'm just a curious person. And to me, I think that's far more of a better claim than saying I'm interesting

because I am truly interested in what other people do. And through that, I think that's what hopefully has made me, you know, successful in my business career and being able to pull the best from people to be able to, again, serve that up, turn it into those wonderful stories that we put out for them. I love that. I hope some people would say I'm interesting. You know, I've caught people on Twitter saying, I really hate Chris Voss. He's really annoying. He talks too much and he's always blabbing. I hate that guy.

And then the other person will be like yeah I hate him too But I still follow him because I want to see what the car crash looks like and you know He does some weird things every now and then and I'm like cool I mean you can love me hate me, but if you follow me winning Jing Yeah, and I would hope that I wouldn't be boring. I you know, I could be controversial I mean, I'll try to be boring. I, you know, I could be controversial. I mean, I don't try to be controversial for the sake of controversy, but sometimes, you know, we can talk about stuff that, you know,

doesn't fit the form of woke principles of cancellation. But we can talk about real stuff in real life, and we can push those boundaries a little bit and try and, you know, be real. Yeah, but isn't that better? Don't you think that's better than trying to be everything to everybody? And I think that's a problem often with, until recently, many politicians seem to follow that mode, which is I need to be as neutral as possible, as non-threatening,

as conforming as possible so I can appeal to as many people as possible. But that isn't always the case, and you really do need to stand for something, because ultimately if you think about it, it's your own happiness. Being something that you're not can really lead to a major disconnect in who you are as a human being. That just seems like you're a generic brand. We're just like a white box on the shelf we're not trying to upset anybody with pictures or anything don't don't mind us we're just sitting here doing our thing and and i don't know maybe some people that's the story i don't know no i mean for a lot of the products i've helped sell over the years that that's probably the worst

death of possible where you're so vanilla that nobody really wants you you you want to be something and be meaningful to people and sometimes that means taking a bit of a stance and living to what you believe in even though not everybody agrees with it yeah and that's why I order strawberry ice cream instead of because screw that vanilla stuff no say that isn't so no i'm just i'm just teasing i love vanilla bean really good vanilla like authentic vanilla stuff that's really good but yeah and there's all sorts of great variations of that in fact now i'm getting hungry and thinking of vanilla bean ice cream let's see where you should, yeah. I mean, that's really why people like Anthony Bourdain-Duce, you know,

have done very well because much of his content was done over food. And food, like story, it's just a wonderful conduit to opening up these conversations. That's a good idea. I'd love to, I wish somebody would give me Anthony Bourdain's job. I'd love to do that. That would just be so fun, except for the food poisoning every now and then you get when you travel internationally. That would not be fun. But, you know, poisoning every now and then you get when you travel internationally. That would not be fun. But, you know, there's one guy, he did hot wings or whatever.

He does some wings over food. Oh, yeah. That's right. It's kind of masochistic. It's sadistic in some sort of way. It's like, let's make a movie star who's respectable melt down into a pile of puddle of crying. It seems a bit much but well it's a bit of a hook and everybody's looking for that unique way to present their content i mean even jerry

seinfeld you know getting coffee with comedians in a car and a wonderful concept but you know again it's a little bit of a hook that gets people to pay attention i think we joke with somebody recently that we might do a show where we just eat together and but there'll be a lot of plate clinking you know the silverware and and people hanging on you know we we talk with our mouth fulls half the time so it might not be the great show lots of you know i think definitely definitely worth trying definitely worth trying we'll call it the burping show the digestive show anyway so with brands so as a ceo and in a business it's important to to have a brand there was another question i had and it's lost somewhere in the ether but it'll come back to me and what do you

find what do you find most people get wrong with building their story and telling their brand story? You know, I think it's really getting into the weeds and not really understanding their audience. So often frame it this way. You really have a three-second story, a 30-second story, and a three-minute story. Many people start with a three-minute story right from the beginning before they even have had a chance to engage people. So this is where you begin seeing people gloss over or they ignore all the texts that you've written. So if you think of a three-second story, it's really your headline or in marketing and advertising, we use a very quick headline or something to catch people to get them to pay attention. Hopefully, I begin to lean forward after hearing that little bit of that element of what will hopefully be an engaging story. And that allows me to go a little bit further, you know, and then telling a little bit more, pulling you in, and then sharing the rest of it.

So the mistake people often make is to get to the long form before they've had a chance to determine very shortly if this is the person who wants to engage with me or not. Now, one of the things I see on your website, you teach and talk and help brands with brand experience. What does that mean? You know, quite often people simply think of a brand as your logo or the story that I have often talked about, but the idea is to be able to live and breathe it. So the notion of having that brand experience means taking that story and using it in your social using it as your biography using it on your website creating the ads and so forth it all has to come back to that story essence because that way all

your pistons are firing in the same way otherwise you have very disconnected pieces that don't really shape the ultimate picture of who you are as that brand. There you go. Because, you know, we've talked about that a lot. I think it's in my book. If you put out PR statements of your morals and your ethics as a company or, you know, your statement of who you are, and you don't live up to that, especially as a CEO, where you're just like, the CEO's a living thief and he cheats and he's awful person so what is all this high-minded stuff they put in the pra mission statement i think disney is one of the people

that you know i think don't they have a rule at their park that that their employees are supposed to make sure that whatever the whatever the customer needs they they follow through with the brand or the experience that Disney wants. They make sure they walk their talk, I think. Is that true? Yeah, it really is that ultimate customer experience. And I think what you've pointed out is where many companies begin to fall apart. So while the CEO or the mission statement or really the picture of the company, it paints it in a certain way, but it's not delivered on a day-to-day basis. So that story really has to be

embraced by everybody and truly understand it. So I see this, you know, even with the smaller companies, you know, who really understand it, but they empower the employees to make the decision to do what it takes to make the customer happy, because that's our mission to keep the customer happy. So we give you the authorization to do what it takes, whether it's to give them a refund or give them extra money or give them, you know, and it works so well because they believe in it and they lead that story and they help to further it much better than just a statement on a wall.

And it's amazing how they remember it. Like with my mortgage company, every now and then we'd have a loan officer who would screw something up and they hadn't followed our rules of ask the customer what they want to accomplish and shut up and listen and write it down. You know, this would be something stupid like they would, the customer would want a 30-year mortgage or a 15-year mortgage, and the person defaults to do a 30 because, you know, a lot of people like 30s. And they get to closing, and they're very unhappy, rightly so.

And so then the call would come to the president and CEO of my office. And, of course, it would usually be introduced to me like, hey, Chris, there's a customer from closing on the line. They're very unhappy. Okay, put them on. The first thing I would do is ask them straight up. Hi, this is Chris Voss, the CEO of the company. I understand there's a problem. How can we resolve this for you?

And it would kind of throw them off balance because they were ready to just start screaming at me and trying to convince me that they needed help. And I'd be like, what do we need to do to make you happy? How do we need to fix this and right away they'd be like oh okay well here's the thing and you know sometimes they yell at me a little bit and that's fine i listen but for the most part i would you know deal with their issue now sometimes they would yell at me and they would give me a load full and i mean i deserved it guy who's, you know, the buck stops here. It's part of my game. Sometimes you let people vent and you go, okay, well, if you're done now, let's figure out how we can help you and we'll fix this thing up.

And sometimes, you know, we'd have to refund all the closing costs and the costs and we'd have to, you know, there's some times where I gave a client, you know, $5,000 or what it was going to cost for the closing and all of our fees and stuff. And, but it would be more important to make them happy. And, you know, they'd be like, you know, you're so awful. We're never going to do business with your company again, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, great. But let's make you happy today. How can we fix this? We'll do the work, whatever it takes. And, and they would be like, okay, fine. And you're, you know, they'd still be angry. Couldn't blame them. There were some times we bundled some stuff up. And not often, thankfully.

It happens, of course. It happens. It's not that it should because they're some idiot employee usually. But let me ask you this, Chris, because I find this super interesting. Do you do because you of the social media world that we live in where we're driven by google reviews or are you driven really by doing what's right being that is your your manner and the way you conduct yourself doing what's right and this was back in the day before social media with our brick and mortar companies yeah um so we didn't you know there wasn't anybody who was going to be like, we're going to call you out online. And there wasn't any of that sort of stuff.

We did it cause it was right. And, and to me, you know, I'm very into stoicism and Marcus Aurelius and, and virtue. And there are certain elements of, of doing things that are right. And I, you know, I, I would hope for repeat business. I would hope that, you know, they wouldn't, you know, I mean, I grew up in the Tom Peters commitment to excellence that if, you know, you offend a customer, he's going to tell six other people and they're going to tell six other people, you know, but still doing right by the customer was important to me. And so, you know what you've described. I often talk about this, which is an authentic brand. So you can simply make the statement that, you know, we'll do what it's right and we're customer focused.

But, you know, you in the end show that there is something behind it and people can believe in it. And that's just as important as the statement itself. And it's what I refer to as the reason to believe, which is your support statement. So if I make a claim, if you make a claim like that, you need to be able to back that up. And by and large, you live and breathe it. So that's an authentic brand. It goes from the beginning to the end in terms of how you conduct yourself.

Yeah, and don't argue with people. These systems people have nowadays where a customer has to argue, yell, scream, go through three managers to get finally to somebody who goes, argue with people these systems people have nowadays where a customer has to argue yell scream go through three managers to get finally somebody who goes oh yeah we'll just take care of that that's bullshit i just i hate that and so the interesting thing about this story was i would be you know i'm like okay well we pissed off that guy he's never coming back again you know who would always come back to us those people They come back a year or two later for another refinance or another house they got. And what was funny was how they would come back.

They would come back, and I would see them and be like, oh, shit, that dude told me, you know, he spent half an hour chewing my ear off about what a horrible person and company I was. And he said some really ugly things to me. I'm not sure I want to hear it. And you think it's going to be a repeat experience? Yeah. And they would come up and they'd be like, you know, it was so great doing business with you. You were so wonderful. I'm like, I don't remember being wonderful, but they, they, they're, they would, they would have turned the story around their head and they were

like, you're, you're so great. And you know, sometimes we did five, six loans with people, you know, sometimes they were investors. And they would come back to us every time. And we just had to make that one hurdle and fix that one problem. And they would come back and they would just glow about us and brag about us. And I just the whole time remember that initial conversation you had with me. What you've described is another aspect.

Not to turn it back to the book per se, but it is a wonderful aspect to building your brand. And that's when you begin having advocates, people who actually tell your story for you because you can scream it as loud as you can, but there's nothing more powerful as you know than a testimonial or a customer who has embraced everything that you stand for because that is the success. That is the path to continued business, of course. Yeah.

And I think often being authentic, geez, I don't know what I'm trying to say, being authentic is really important in a brand. Walking the talk and talking the walk, wouldn't you agree? Absolutely, absolutely. Because particularly in this day and age, it's very easy to out you or find, you know, what isn't authentic. But, you know, more importantly, as I said earlier,

being authentic, I think, is a path to better happiness. Because being something that you're not truly is a disconnect from what makes you, you know, content in life. There you go. Now, I noticed you have a podcast, too. You want to plug in for that? You know, really, it's, as you've probably found, Chris, a podcast is just a wonderful medium by which you can share stories and connect with people. So often I will have people like yourself come on my show, and they interview me in the same sort of way because they're looking for advice on their business or looking for elements that may shape their brand.

So I spend, and that's really the focus of it. So to me, it's sort of a reverse podcast rather than me being the host. They're the host and I'm the guest. That's kind of interesting. So they come on your podcast and they interview you. Correct. Yeah, they act as a host. I should do that because that's a whole lot more easier. Hosting is hard, man. Correct. Correct. Yeah. They act as a host. I should do that.

Cause that kind of, that's a whole lot more easier. I'm hosting is hard, man. It's hard. It's hard being those. So I just, I'm just going to let people do that from here on out.

They can be like, they can interview me and I don't know how would that, how would they, you know, I bet you have some great stories and I, you know, I'd love to grab some time just to maybe get to that and be your host at one point. That might be interesting.

Although I'm not the best guest, though. The problem is if people mishandle me as a guest, I'll take over as host. And I do that on a lot of shows because there's a lot of bad hosts. I'm sure you're good, but there's a lot of bad hosts out there. And if you manhandle me wrong or you give me an in, I'll take over the show. I'll just run the show. How did you describe it earlier?

Being a bit of a car crash? Maybe that's not entertaining. It's just when you're Carson and you're when you're Carson and I'm not saying I'm anywhere near those guys, but when you're so comfortable being a host, it's really hard to be a guest. You know, I think Carson only guested a few times on Letterman and other places, but very rarely. And it's just weird because you sit there just going, critiquing your host going, seriously? Who gave you this job but or the other side of it as we talked about earlier there's something quite you know the reason why we do

a lot of this is that we're just curious people and i think we would rather be interested than interesting so i think that's where you you and i you know come from and why it works works out well that way yeah because i i'm sick of me as i mentioned before like i have people like so what do you like i don't know go i don't know there's a video on somewhere probably go have fun but the other thing is too is is i i tend to upstage everyone so if you've ever seen carson or letterman get upstage is he carson you know he gets he gets upstage by jonathan winners or Robin Williams. The real masters. That's kind of

where I end up on shows. I just upstage and take over and people are just like, I mean, it just becomes the Chris Voss shows, you know. But, you know, they let me, so I do it. So, that's just how I roll. Moving on, final thoughts on your book.

Pitch out to people on how to reach out to your agency and work with you. Tell us what sort of companies out there, this goes on LinkedIn, of course, what sort of companies work with you? Do they need to be a certain level, mid-sized, small, et cetera, et cetera? No, really, I help young upstarts. I've helped very mature companies. It's typically companies that haven't quite figured out their story and are looking to really get to the next level or reach that next plateau of success. And quite

often, they haven't quite figured out how to exact their brand and distinguish themselves in the marketplace. But the most important thing and the first sort of criteria really is, you know, what sort of, for me personally, anyway, it's to have a positive impact on society. How will you better the world? And I'm very happy to talk to people. There you go. So how do they reach out to you and handshake with you or inquire more about your services? You know, here today, I just happened to be talking a little bit more about the book on my own personal website, henrywong.co. You'll find more about the book on my own personal website henrywong.co you'll find more about the book i put together but also there's contact information but often linkedin is the

best way i just i find that's a perfect way to engage and and know who we are before we even begin talking linkedin is just such a i love linkedin it's just you know you know what's really funny i read about a and sorry i'm going off side for a second but you know people have started using it as a dating site it's hilarious because it's and if you think about it's a wonderful way to vet people right from the beginning before you get it because you can't be any more truthful than you can be on linkedin compared to let's say match.com or the other sites of course plus chicks can figure out how much money you have in your title and stuff i actually had a

gal write me in my dating groups and she was i guess she's interested but she's like where's their profile view it's better than tinder and other things that you have profiles on and i hate tinder but i tried it once and so there's some residual sitting there. But I sent her my LinkedIn profile. Yeah, it's a dating site, I guess, now. And just stay tuned for lots of Snapchat pictures showing up on LinkedIn. That may be the next evolution. Don't send dick pics through LinkedIn, people.

Make it stop. Let's have one prominent established decent professional social media site please okay there's enough sites for all that other garbage so there you go but yeah it's it's it's such a great site it's such a great place to meet professionals and network with individuals we used to joke back in the day when there was just the triad of Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn, we used to joke, Twitter is the bar. Facebook is your home and LinkedIn is your business, your office.

You know, don't put stupid bar stuff on your LinkedIn thing, but there you go. So thank you very much for coming on. Yeah. No, wonderful to be on. Thanks for having me.

Thank you. It's been insightful and everything else. And I'm going to go figure out what my story is. That or I'm just going to make up one and just, I don't know, make a new one. Put it on Tinder. Yes. Yeah, I'm going to put it on Tinder. There you go.

Yeah, yeah. You can have a story for dating. I'll use that on first dates. So thank you very much, Henry, for coming on. Dotcoms as we go out, please, sir. Take care. There you go. No, give me your dotcom, your website.

Oh, yeah, yeah. There you go no give me your dot com your website there you go yeah the other website would be viewbrand.com v-y-o-o brand.com or henrywong.co which is my personal site there you go thanks to everyone for tuning in go to goodreads.com fortresschristmaslinkedin.com fortresschristmaschristmas1 tiktokity all those crazy places in the internet stay safe be good to each other and we'll see you next time