The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Devil’s Hand: A Thriller by Jack Carr

Episode Date: March 29, 2021

The Devil's Hand: A Thriller by Jack Carr NEW YORK TIMES AND USA TODAY BESTSELLING AUTHOR “Take my word for it, James Reece is one rowdy motherf***er. Get ready!”—Chris Pratt, star of The Terminal List, coming to Amazon Prime The fourth thriller in the “so powerful, so pulse-pounding, so well-written” (Brad Thor, #1 New York Times bestselling author) Terminal List series follows former Navy SEAL James Reece as he is entrusted with a top-secret CIA mission of retribution twenty years in the making. It’s been twenty years since 9/11, two decades since the United States was attacked on home soil and set out to make the guilty pay with their lives. In the shadows, the enemy has been patient—learning, and adapting. And the enemy is ready to strike again. A new president offers hope to a country weary of conflict. He’s a young, popular, self-made visionary…but he’s also a man with a secret. Halfway across the globe a regional superpower struggles with sanctions imposed by the United States and her European allies, a country whose ancient religion spawned a group of ruthless assassins. Faced with internal dissent and extrajudicial targeted killings by the United States and Israel, the Supreme Leader puts a plan in motion to defeat the most powerful nation on earth. Meanwhile, a young PhD student has gained access to a bioweapon thought to be confined to a classified military laboratory known only to a select number of officials. A second-generation agent, he has been assigned a mission that will bring his adopted homeland to its knees. With Jack Carr’s signature “absolutely intense” (Chuck Norris) writing and “gripping authenticity” (The Real Book Spy), The Devil’s Hand is a riveting and timely thriller that will leave you gasping for breath.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks chris voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming with a great podcast we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in we've got an amazing on. He's the author of a bunch of books, Jack Carr. And he's got his book that's going to be coming out on April 13th, 2021.

We're going to be talking about it, The Devil's Hand, a thriller. And we're going to have him on the show today. But to see the video version of this, go to YouTube.com. Of course, that's Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast, of course, for your friends, neighbors, relatives. Get them involved in subscribing to the podcast as well.

The beautiful part about the podcast is you can hit that subscribe button and a feeling will wash over your body. It will give you a completeness and a completion that you've never ever experienced before. Take and do that and remember, the Chris Voss show never judges you. Anyway, guys, we'll go to goodreads.com

for chris voss it's facebook instagram all that different things and you can follow the groups we have over there today once again jack carr he is the new york times best-selling author and former navy seal he lives with his wife and three children in park city utah he is the author of the terminal list true believer and savage son welcome the show jack how are you my friend and three children in Park City, Utah. He is the author of The Terminal List, True Believer, and Savage Son. Welcome to the show, Jack. How are you, my friend? Chris, thanks so much for having me on. This is awesome. You've got a great radio voice. Amazing. I'm blessed with one thing. I got radio face and radio voice.

Fantastic. I love it. You've got the new book coming out, 4-13-21. I'll hold up a picture. There'll be one in the middle between us. It's a really nice thick book. Look at that baby there. Got a couple pages, 524 pages on the back. I'm seeing.

Give us your plugs so people can find you on the interwebs and order up the book. Absolutely. It's so thick you can use it as a weapon if need be. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's. But, yeah, you can find me at Jack Carr USA on the social channels. I'm most active on Instagram, but also on Twitter and Facebook. Although I had to choose as I started down this path.

There are so many distractions out there and ways to engage. I had to prioritize. So Instagram is where I'm most active. Twitter next. And then Facebook kind of reposts from Instagram. But yeah, Jack Carr USA. And then the website is officialjackcarr.com. And there's a blog on there where I have reading list selections, or I go deep into some of the weapons and got knives and gear in the books and that sort

of thing. And then I have a podcast called Danger Close Beyond the Books with Jack Carr. So that just launched a little while ago here. And yeah, those are coming out every Wednesday. So you can find those on YouTube or Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Podcasts are awesome, man. It's great. You guys, you've gotten into that. And of course, you're being able to build and promote and everything's about that. People love the interaction, I'm sure, with an author for your fan base. Yeah, there was something that wasn't available for authors, say, if they were coming up in

1965, 75, 85, 95, early 2000s. It just wasn't a medium that existed in order to grow that fan base or engage with that readership. I figured might as well it exists today. And I always get these questions that want to go beyond the books. That's why it's called Danger Close, Beyond the Books with Jack Carr. I get all these questions about whether it's politics or it's weapons or whatever it may be, the writing process. So I figured that is a better medium in which to discuss some of these things, especially some of the complex issues that don't lend themselves to a one-sentence response on Twitter or Instagram. And often responses like that make those discussions deteriorate rapidly. So the podcast will be the venue where I discuss those things.

That's pretty awesome, man. And then you can expand on it. Some of the behind the scenes thinking and stuff like that. We're thinking about doing more behind the scenes of the Chris Voss show, which is really weird because it's already a podcast. So there'll be behind the scenes. I don't know. Be the main room discussions or something. I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

Go for it. That will be a bloopers reel. So they can order the book up on Amazon or any different local booksellers. What motivated you want to write this book? And this is a book in a series. Is that correct? It is. It's the fourth book in a series that follows a Navy SEAL sniper.

First one is really a book about revenge without constraints. That's the terminal list that's actually being filmed now. I don't know. Chris Pratt is starring. Antoine Foucault is directing this first episode. So it's an eight-part series for Amazon. Seriously? Wow. Yeah. Chris Pratt, too. Yeah. starring uh antoine fukua is directing this first episode so it's an eight-part series for amazon seriously wow yeah chris pratt too yeah he's and he's the one i thought of as i was writing it really hey this character wow i wanted someone that hadn't done this sort of thing before something dark and gritty needed to do it maybe to show their range and i thought chris is the

perfect guy for this yeah and i thought of antoine fukua directing as i was writing so to have both of them involved it's, it's beyond belief. But second book continues that series and it's called True Believer. And it's a story really of redemption, learning to live again, finding that next mission, that passion in life. And then the third one, Savage Son, is the one I wanted to write first. But I knew that the characters weren't developed enough to explore those themes I wanted to explore in the third one, which are really the dark

side of man through the dynamic of hunter and hunted. And I got that from the sixth grade when I read Most Dangerous Game by Richard Connell, a short story from 1924. But I always knew one day I'd write a modern day tribute to that novel. And so this fourth one I wanted to write because it explores things that I thought of while I was

in uniform as a SEAL and what I continue to think of today, which is what does the enemy learn? If I was the enemy, what would I have learned from watching us on the field of battle for the last 20 years? Essentially, we have Iran, we have Russia, we have China, we have North Korea, we have super empowered individuals, we have terrorist organizations. And they've had 20 years essentially to watch us play poker and look at our cards. So I started doing the research in late 2019, the fall of 2019. And when we got into 2020, things started to change because the enemy is also watching our response to COVID.

The enemy is also watching our response to the civil unrest of this past summer. They're also watching our what seemed to be irreconcilable political differences and a very contentious political season and election. So they're not just watching those things as passive bystanders. They are watching those events and they are taking notes and they are applying those lessons to future battle plans. As I was writing, I had to incorporate those things because it was at the front of my mind and it's what the story is about. So it ended up being quite timely. Yeah. When the headline is down and wounded, people are looking to take over and they're just sharpening their knives. And yeah, I think a lot of people looked at us that way. So give us an arcing overview of the book and then we'll get into some of the

details. Yeah. This particular one, Devil's Fan, fourth one in the series, you can jump in and read it as a standalone, but it probably makes sense to read the others to have that foundation and know the characters as you're moving forward with them and have that relationship built with those characters. But this first one is really, well, it explores the legality,

the ethics, morality behind targeted assassinations, which is something that I thought about a lot in the SEAL teams as we're building target packages and going out. Really? That seems odd. And then you're seeing it in the news and you're seeing drones and you're seeing how does that play in. And hey, if we take out this person, are we also creating more terrorists?

So you have to think of, and those are tough questions to wrestle with and answer. Of course, we have Israel as an example, and they've had targeted assassinations as part of really national policy from their inception. We've done it too, but it's not something like it is with Israel, where it's such a just a natural part from day one of their country. So this one explores that. And then it also, I was doing this research into bioweapons, into infectious diseases, into the weaponization of infectious diseases back in August of 2019. So of course, when COVID hit, I'm hypersensitive to what's going on. But in my research, I'm researching, hey, what did the Japanese do in World War II? Who did they use bioweapons on? What happened to that information after the war? Same thing with Germany. What did

they develop? Who did they use it on? And what happened to that data after the war? And how did the US bioweapons program start up? And the U.S. bioweapons program start up and how did the Soviet Union bioweapon program start up? And then what happened in the 70s when we signed these treaties, these bioweapon conventions that all have, they have this thing in there that says you're allowed to develop bioweapon defense weapons. So in order to develop the defense, you have to also develop the offense. And so it was fascinating for me to go down the rabbit hole on these bioweapons and how they're developed,

the legalities behind them, who's used them, where they came from, and then look at all that from the enemy's perspective and ask myself if I was the enemy and I wanted to take down an empire, which is the modern-day empire, what would I do? And that's the theme of the novel. There you go. I was going to say my favorite to seal team assassination was some and laudan that was up there and that was

top of my list right there that was my favorite one yeah you write who's the main character that you write through these books who's the hero that we would call it or main character main character the protagonist of the novels is a guy named james reese and that's who chris pratt is playing in the series and he's a former baby SEAL sniper, which I was. And then he becomes an officer along his path. And when the reader meets him in the first novel, he's at that stage where he's going to lead guys tactically on the battlefield for the last time

because he's at this rank where I was when I started writing this, where I wasn't going to lead guys anymore because I've made this rank, we're O4 and as a task unit commander, as an 04 major in the other services, a lieutenant commander in the SEAL teams. If you continue to stay in, you'll come back as a team commanding officer, but you're really a manager at that point.

You are in the tactical operations center. You are allocating assets. And yes, it's an important thing to be able to do, but it's not what I came in to do. I came in to kick those doors with the guys, to be out there on the battlefield doing the job. And then my family needed me at home. So my main character is at a very similar place. And that's when disaster strikes and he gets wound up in this conspiracy that I got from the church hearings in the 70s, where Frank Church of Idaho held a

series of hearings that uncovered a lot of abuses by certain federal agencies. And so I took that, that, that knowledge and applied it to a future type of, uh, of, of program where soldiers are being inoculated against PTSD, but there are side effects and they need to be covered up. And that's how this whole thing starts going. So it's a government private sector cabal and James Reese starts taking them out one by one. So it was very therapeutic to write as well because I got to take these experiences from Iraq and Afghanistan and take the emotions and feelings behind them,

but then apply those emotions and feelings to a completely fictional narrative. And I think that's why it stood out to Simon & Schuster because they see thousands of these things across their desks every year. And that's why it's been resonating with readers because when I'm writing about these things, it reads a very authentic way. And that's because the feelings and emotions come from a real place. And let's talk about that for a second. I was

trying to find here, I had somewhere on my monitor here, I had your history of your military experience. Do you want to talk a little bit about it? Because I think that really helps authenticate the quality of what you put into the books, like you said, the feelings and everything else. And I had like a whole list somewhere on one of my pages here. Don't worry, I remember still. I've been out for four years or so, so I can still recall. But yeah, the two things I wanted to do with my life were serve my country in uniform, specifically as a SEAL when I found out what they were at age seven. And then growing up in the eighties, there just wasn't much information out there about special operations. You couldn't just Google it. My mom was a librarian. So I grew up with this love of books and reading. And we went down to the local library and we researched SEALs, frogmen, special operations, found out a little bit about the training, found out about BUDS, found out about Hell Week and some of those magazine articles, hardly anything written back then. But some of those things I read, I said,

hey, these guys are some of the most elite special operations forces in the world and the training some of the toughest ever devised by modern military. So they had me from a very early age, they didn't need to do much more. But then I was also reading fiction, because a lot of the protagonists in novels that in the 80s and 90s, had main characters that had backgrounds that I wanted in real life one day. So I'm reading Tom Clancy, I'm reading Nelson DeMille, I'm reading David Morrell, I'm reading AJ Cornell, JC Pollock, Mark Olden, all these guys with these typically protagonists that had special forces backgrounds, Vietnam Army Special Forces, or Navy SEALs, or as some CIA type ground branch asset. And so I just was naturally gravitating to these things. And I loved reading those novels. And I knew that one day after

the military, I would write books like that, that I was enjoying so much back then. So I've been a lifelong reader. And I didn't look at this way at the time. But I was really giving myself an early education in the art of storytelling by reading all these guys. So when the military came in enlisted, because once again, doing that research, I found out that officers aren't snipers typically. And also, here's the power of popular culture, all those Vietnam movies that I watched in the 80s, they always had this brand new lieutenant I found out that officers aren't snipers typically. And also here's the power of popular culture. All those Vietnam movies that I watched in the 80s, they always had this brand new lieutenant

that would just show up from OCS or from the academy or whatever. And he'd show up in Vietnam and he'd make everybody get haircuts and shave and press their uniforms and start saluting him. And then he'd lead everyone right into an ambush. That was what happened on every single one of those shows and movies.

So I was like, I don't want to be that guy. So I'm coming in. I'm going to come in enlisted. I want to learn the trade, establish a reputation, become a sniper, and then decide later if I want to be an officer or not. And I eventually did become an officer. And my second deployment was two weeks into my second deployment was September 11th, 2001. And so that was really when, because we all showed up at our first SEAL teams after SEAL training and we thought we were going to go do the secret missions. Like we thought we're

going to get issued the pager right away and we'd be out doing something. And then all of a sudden it would go off and we'd go save the world and come back. And that wasn't really how it was. You showed up at your first SEAL team and they handed you a mop, you know, a broom, clean that bathroom, change that light bulb. Like you did new guys. But then after September 11th, we really started to do what we came into doing and what we thought we were going to do when we crossed that quarter deck at our first seal team so yeah i stayed in for those for those years got out in 2016 and it was it was an event full time to be in uh and i feel very fortunate that i was able to well make it through and then be here doing this in this next chapter in life doing what i love this is awesome

man this is awesome and i think this makes it more authentic. Like I used to love Red, Hunt for Red October. One thing that spoiled me is someone told me that he never, I think he interviewed and said he'd never been inside of a sub and you're like, boy, I feel a little gyp, man. Hey, for never being inside one of these things, he sure did a good job. He did a hell of a job. He did a hell of a job. Now, what's interesting is some of the tools of the trade that you're very familiar with. We can see behind you those who are listening in. You've got axes, I think an older gun, maybe a musket. I saw something on your website about something about a Kalashnikov for this one chapter, but I'm not as familiar with those platforms as I am with M4s and ARs and that type of thing. So I've done weapons familiarization, obviously shot them quite a bit, but there are some people out there that really know their Kalashnikov platform. And I did not want to get that wrong.

So I did all my research. I have books and I have all sorts of stuff here. But I reached out to some of the leading authorities on AKs, collection cost variants out there in the country. And then I went down to Park City Gun Club down here that they actually have a fully automatic AK that you can rent and shoot on their range. So I went down there and I wanted to see, hey, how do you load this thing? What are those procedures? What does it sound like as you're going through these procedures? And as you're checking to make sure there's a round in the chamber. So I just wanted to get that all as be able to describe that, you know, describe the oil

that you use or the grease in that, in this case, and just how all that works and describe that on the page. Because I use these weapons, these tools, this gear really as character development tools. And sometimes these weapons become characters in and of themselves. So I was very fortunate to be able to reach out to know who to reach out to one and then be able to go down and get my hands on one as I'm writing that section of the book.

Where I usually live in Vegas, they have, they have incredible gun ranges. One's pretty good. It has all sorts of stuff down there, machine guns and everything. Oh yeah. In Vegas, there's people coming through from States where they can't do that sort of thing and they get to go to the range and blast away for a little bit yeah yeah we have everything there it's the wonderful part hopefully we'll get back to normal here soon the kalashnikov i think

don't the russians make all their kids learn to assemble one and deassemble one in school i think they do that they get blindfolded yeah and have to do it in a certain amount of time or it's off to the gulag off Off to the gulag. I don't know if it's like that anymore. Who knows if it ever really was. It's not happening around over there. Yeah, they don't screw around, but they really love their Russian Kalashnikov. So what are some other aspects and pieces of the book that we want to talk about without giving too much away?

Ooh, so I'm going to give, yeah, exactly. That's the key right there. Yeah. Not giving too much away. So this one, I was very lucky. So for those other ones, for the first one, I'd been to Iraq, I'd been to Afghanistan, I'd been to many of the places that I described in that first novel. The second one, I hadn't been to Mozambique. And there's a very large section in Mozambique, Africa. So I went there, put boots on the ground. And I think that's important to be able to weave that local flavor

in a novel. So I went there, did that. Then for that second one and the third one, I went back to Africa and went to South Africa and helped train up an anti-poaching unit out there that they're protecting some of the last rhino on earth. Oh, wow. Switching over to M4s and Glocks. So I went to have some experience with those platforms. So I went down there and helped train them out. And then they taught me about tracking, about tactical tracking. A lot of them had grown up just tracking animals. And then after that, they caught the tail end of the bush wars. So these guys were older. So they caught the tail end of those bush wars in the early nineties. Then they came back and the government was like, wow, we have all these

guys that are coming back. These veterans are coming back. They need jobs. What are we going to do with them? And they brought a lot of them into the national Police Force to take those skills that they learned in the bush and then transfer those over to an urban environment. And it's not so much that you're tracking a trail of blood from a crime scene, but you're getting in the head of that perpetrator, of that suspect, of that target, and then paged out of that. So now a lot of those guys are being hired by these private companies over there to help protect some of these endangered species. These guys are being hired by these private companies over there to help protect some of these endangered species. These guys are out there and they're protecting, in this case, some of those last rhino on earth. So I did that. So point B. And then for the third one,

I went to Russia. So I went to Kamchatka Peninsula, Russia, which is just south of Siberia there. So I went over there and once again, wanted to weave that local flavor in. And in Africa, everybody wanted to talk to me. Mozambique, South Africa, everyone to tell me their story, the story of their country, the story of their town, of their village, of the poaching going on, of the Chinese influence, the mines, whatever else was going on. They wanted to tell me all of it. And I got to Russia and just because of that past experience, and there's so much going on, I assumed it would be the same. So I got to Russia and that's not the case. There's no experience there. Because I think for most of Russian history, if someone was asking you pointed questions, especially the kind that

I'm asking about military type things or whatever, that you weren't long for this world. So I think this suspicion has been passed down and rightly. So it was a different experience over there as far as drawing that information out. But I was out in the back country out there and got a lot that I was able to weave into Savage Son, my third novel. So point being, I got very lucky with this fourth one because I didn't have to travel because it was so, well, because COVID hit. This was more academic type based. It's US based. I've been to most of the places that I talk about in the novel. I think all of them. I mean, it's not all US based, but it's mostly US based. So I did a lot of research, a lot of reading, a lot of interviews with people that have been involved in these different bioweapon programs

or medical programs that might have dual use technologies and all that sort of thing. So it was research intensive and also intense on the history side of the house on really from 1979 up to 2001, exploring that time in the Middle East with Hezbollah, with what their influence was in Lebanon. And so all those kinds of things that were very academically oriented. So I was able to write this book without going to one of those exotic locations. So that's some behind the scenes for you right there. Yeah. Lots of travel, lots of experience getting in the thing. The one thing I know, if I ever go to Russia, I will always take a ground floor hotel room.

Is that for fire departments? No, it just seems like a lot of people fall off balconies there and upper stories. I think I had a Russian friend joke. He goes, in Russia, the penthouse is least expensive, the lowest. Interesting. I'll remember that. I'm going to write that one down. There's always a lot of people falling out of balconies.

Hey, he fell out a second-story window. What happened there? Yeah, yeah, a lot of accidents. A lot of accidents. Any teasers or surprises maybe you want to tease out in the book of anything that might be really unique to the book that maybe you want to tease out? Let's see. Book specific. Well, a little teaser that they're filming the terminal list in LA right now. So they're going about all that. And Chris Pratt

is starring. So he's getting in shape, learning how to do all those transitions from rifle to pistol, learning the working with the Tomahawk there on the wall, the Winkler Tomahawk, which has made an appearance in all my novels thus far is a character in and of itself yeah so right now they're on set and let's see here's a teaser so there's a scene in in the book that sets the tone for the rest of the novel chapter one and it's been the location has been changed for the book in a way that is very interesting visually. And so I'll leave that as the teaser because in the book, it's Afghanistan. It's on a mountain in Afghanistan where the Sandbush takes place.

And in the series that they're filming now, I just got some really cool photos a second ago on it right before we jumped on. That's a little bit different. There you go. You're going to have to check that baby out. Do you get to go on set? Do they fly you down to do some advice with Chris Bryant? Yep. You have someone, an executive producer on it and an advisor on the scripts. I have three

buddies from the SEAL teams that are dear friends that are there every day doing the technical stuff. So it's awesome that they're involved. Another buddy from this, a couple of buddies from the SEAL teams are actually playing characters. Wow. That's pretty cool. It's so cool. There's 300 or 400 people that are working on this thing right now. With COVID, they're being very

strict COVID protocols because if one person gets COVID, the whole thing shuts down for two weeks and then everybody's losing money and all that sort of thing.

It's impacting other schedules and that sort of thing. So I'm going out here pretty soon. I'll go out, I think, once for each episode. Each episode has a different director

to say hi, say thank you, and I may have a little cameo. Hey, there you go. Do the Hitchcock thing. That's the real teaser. Do the Alfred Hitchcock thing. Walk across the car or something, whatever. I forget his other appearances.

I just remember the psycho walking across the car at the beginning. So the movies with Amazon that they're going to be doing, the series they're doing with Amazon, the eight series, is that just the first book then? Yep the first book we'll see how it does and if it it does maybe there's a second season for true believer the second book and if not then uh maybe that's it so we'll see you know they've been doing such great product and bought the series i fell in love with there was another series with the right yeah who's the guy who did the sling blade uh billy

bob thornton there was a detective series he oh really i haven't seen that one oh slick as hell and uh great acting by billy bob thornton and i think it's called it's right on the tip of my tongue it's like gargantuan or something but uh great series and really you just won't see anything coming like it just yeah it's one of those movies where you don't see anything coming. Anything that we haven't covered in the book that we want to plug before we go out? Oh, it's coming out, yeah, April 13th in audio too. People always ask me, when does the audio come out?

Because in my head, I'm just assuming that people know that it comes out at the same time, but people don't. So yeah, audio and it's read by Ray Porter, who is playing Darkseid in the Snyder Cut of Justice League, which just came out on March 18th. And he's just a fantastic guy. And audio is the fastest growing segment of publishing. And I think a lot of that is because people are drawn to our podcasts or radio where they think

that they're the third person in the conversation between two people if they're driving their car or making dinner or whatever else. It's just a very powerful medium. And I think it translates over into people that like to listen to audio books. So I got so lucky. I had no idea that people follow narrators from projects. So it was Ray Porter based on his voice. At the last second, I didn't know I had any say in who was going to be my narrator and Simon and Schuster asked me and I was like, can I, can I have a little time this year?