The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Hole in Your Life: Grief and Bereavement by Bob Rich

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

The Hole in Your Life: Grief and Bereavement by Bob Rich https://www.amazon.com/Hole-Your-Life-Grief-Bereavement/dp/B0FFK9MBKR https://bobrich18.wordpress.com/ GriefThe Hole in Your Life by Dr. Bob Rich is a heartfelt, practical guide to understanding grief and healing from it. Rooted in personal experience-most notably the loss of his daughter, Natalie-and decades of psychological counseling, Dr. Rich offers readers compassionate tools for navigating bereavement. Drawing on real-life case studies, mindfulness techniques, and the "seven magic bullets" for wellbeing, he explores the complexities of grief, from anticipatory sorrow to finding meaning and renewal. Blending storytelling, humor, and therapeutic insight, this book serves as both a comfort and a roadmap for anyone experiencing loss, emphasizing that while grief is unique and unpredictable, growth and peace are possible. "Thank you for asking me to read The Hole in Your Life. Its insights will help countless people struggling with loss. I recently lost my youngest sister, and it was a blessing to read your thoughts on the paths I can take toward remembering her in healthy ways." -- Georgiann Baldino, author of A Family and Nation under Fire, and other books "Dr Bob Rich's The Hole in Your Life is written from the heart. It shares his personal experience and many case studies with his clients, making research-based recommendations on how to process grief in a very readable and easy to apply manner." -- Dr David Morawetz, counselling psychologist, grief counsellor, and founder and director, Social Justice Fund "Grief is something that touches everyone's life at some point or another, so it only makes sense to empower ourselves with the tools to cope-and who better to learn from than Dr. Bob Rich, a psychologist with decades of experience helping patients overcome a wide variety of life's problems, including of course, grief." -- I. C. Robledo, a bestselling author and editor in self-development. "The Hole in Your Life is a good toolbox for coping with grief and I agree with all of it. Among the points that resonated with me most deeply are these ideas: grief is part of our life experience, so let's not be afraid of it; it is easier to recover from grief if you grieve before the person dies and suffer with them; and, that only way to learn from loss with meaning is through suffering, as long as it is not self-inflicted." -- Alfredo Zotti, author of Music Therapy: An Introduction with case studies for mental illness recovery.

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Now here's your host, Chris Voss. Hey folks, it's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. How are you doing there ladies and gentlemen, things that makes official welcome to 16 years, 24 and a, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen,

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And clearly I've already lost my mind. So that's taken care of as well. Refer the family show, show to your family, friends and relatives. I'm having a mental breakdown evidently. Uh, go to good reads.com. Yeah. Refer the show to your family, friends and relatives before her to help me avoid having a mental breakdown, which has already happened, evidently.

Go to GoodRees.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss. Chris Foss won the TikTok and he had Facebook.com, Fortress, Chris Foss. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests to the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Very amazing young man on the show. We're going to be talking about his newest book that he has come out. He's an author of over 20 books. His newest book is called The Hole in Your Life, Grief and Bereavement by Bob Rich. He's also a doctor PhD. We should make that notation as well.

We're going to get into it with him. We're going to find out his story, how he's lived his life, and some of the lessons he's learned in his study, and how he can also, you know, help us live our lives better. So the book honors his granddaughter, or I'm sorry, his daughter, who passed in December of 2024 and he is a professional grandfather. We'll find out what that means. I do professional grandfather work, but it's an OnlyFans. Anyway, I'm just kidding people. Don't Google that. Job specification is to work for, is to work for a tomorrow for today's youngsters and a tomorrow worth living in will by empathy, decency, cooperation instead of greed, hate and conflict. Boy, we need more of that in the world

today, don't we? Welcome to the show. How are you, sir? Well, I don't feel a day over a hundred. I'm pretty good. Well, you're holding up for a couple of days. A couple of days ago, I went for Pretty good. Well, you're holding up for a couple of days. A couple of days ago, I went for a power walk and overdid it a bit, so I'm a stiff in a few places, but otherwise okay. And I'm raring to go. Raring to go. And I'm going to have some fun with you.

There we go. This is what we love on the guest show, the raring to go podcast and having fun. So give us cine.com, where do you want people to find you on the interwebs to get to know you better? My blog is bobbing around. If you do a search for Dr. Bob Ridge bobbing around, I'll pop up right up the top. There you go. But I can give you the link, but that's easier. Sure. So give us a 30,000 overview what's inside your new

book as you said my dear daughter died in December hmm I'm sorry no no no no the the the the the the the the

the the the the I thought I inactivated it, but this was my dear friend Murphy. Oh! Hello Murphy! You know, if anything can possibly go wrong, it already has. Well, we've got out of the way then, don't we? Anyway, let me tell you this. When she made up her final will, she left most of her stuff to

her brother and sister, then made bequests to various people, including her cat. To her mother, she left all her knitting yarn, and to to me she left all her chocolate. Oh, the chocolate! Was it the Tim Tams? Oh, it was all sorts. Tim Tams in there? Well, this was December, now is July, I've just about finished the stock. But anyway, before she died, she said,

I'm going to turn your washing water purple. Now, we save our water because Australia is a pretty dry place. We use it on the garden. And the first time we washed clothes, the water coming out was an iridescent bright pink. You know, like beetroot juice, if you dilute it down enough? There was a white tablecloth in the wash, not a stain on it. Explain that away. She was having a joke. One of her best friends is a TV addict and she said to him, I'll switch your TV off when

I'm over. When he went home from the memorial service, put on the TV, flicked off. He put on the TV, flicked off. Happened half a dozen times. Okay? So, that's the first reason that I process my grief almost immediately. Grief can be a terrible monster that rips into you and claws you to pieces, but it's possible to deal with it. And my book is a set of resources.

They're all research-based, they've all been field tested by me, and I've used them for decades in my therapy. In fact, some of them my clients helped me to invent. Pete Slauson Now, when you say your therapy, what's your job title that you work at? I'm trying to establish that whether it's your personal therapy work that you're doing or whether it's therapy, people come to you and how you help other people. I've retired five times from five different jobs and counseling psychology is one of them.

Okay, that's when the PhD comes in, I guess, right? So this was people coming to me thinking I would fix them, but I said, nah, nobody can fix you but yourself, so I empower them to fix them, to fix themselves. And I can do that in writing just as well as sitting there face to face. Okay, sounds good then. So, tell us the title of the book, The Hole in Your Life, Grieve and Prevenance, what does that pertain to? I can kind of guess, but I think people like to hear your interpretation of why you chose that title.

Dr. Kiernan-Klein The original title was, If You Have Lost a Loved One, How to Cope with Grief. But then I remembered I've had clients who lost a hated one and were still grieving. Like I had a lady who was a victim of domestic violence and when the fellow got killed in a drunken brawl, she cheered. But months down the track, she still missed him. So that has to be dealt with too. It still needs to be processed. And also, you can have a terrible hole in your life without having lost a beloved person. I know a man who had a successful business. He formed a partnership with two others and they managed to turf him out legally. They didn't break any laws, but he lost his business, he lost his source of income, and he lost his self-identification as a

successful businessman. So the way to deal with that is exactly the same as if his wife had died. Different issue. I think in his case, it was just as painful. Yeah. And a lot of these things, I mean, loss and issues and different things also, you know, have created these issues of feelings and everything else. So was this kind of a way to help you process the loss of your daughter and then of course help others process that grief and how to heal from it, I guess?

Peter Well, one of the rules of our universe is the more you give, the more you get. is the more you give, the more you get, and the more you give, the more you grow. And we are here to grow. Every sentient being is an apprentice Jesus, apprentice Buddha. Our job here is to progress in spiritual development until we get there. And so, the way to do it, how do you learn a new skill? You become an apprentice. And so, an apprentice Buddha will act as if enlightened. And you can't do it, you can't keep it up, but that's the way to learn.

So I'm doing my best to act as if I were enlightened by doing my best to be of service. The Belay Lama said, the aim of enlightenment is to be of service. My religion is kindness. So, Waco, there's my model. Yeah. Anyway, by the time the memorial service was held for my daughter, I was well through my grief. I mean, I miss her for the rest of my life, however long that may be, but the terrible pain of grief is not there. I can joke, I can get on with life. And the book describes how I did it. It's only a little book, but it's twined around two stories. One is how I managed to process my grief for my daughter, and the other one is based on

a young couple who both bitterly blamed each other for the terrible death of their little tiny toddler son. They came to me separately, referred by two different doctors, and I saw each of them separately for nine sessions and then three sessions together. So I traced their progress through and all three of us knew that they were okay when in that 12th session, the way they met was through ballroom dancing. They were competitive ballroom dancers. And I said to them in the 12th session, tomorrow, Saturday, go dancing. And they said, oh, I can't. I

said, yes, you can. You won't do it. Monday morning, they rang me up saying, we're canceling the next session. We don't need it anyway anymore. And that dancing session also reunited them as husband and wife. The lady was blushing over the phone as she told me. So this is why having fun, enjoyment is an essential part of resolving grief. Yeah. I, let me ask you this because one of the things that I, I've always hated about grief is going through all those stages and I hate that process because, uh, you know, you know, you have to do the process, right? And so I've just never been a fan of it because, you know, like usually I'm experiencing my dogs passing away.

And when my dogs pass away, you know, I know that I've got to go through the stages of grief, right? I don't really have an option on it. I'm just going to have to deal with it and go through with it. But you know, I know that the process of the eight stages, you know, has to take place and it takes time, which I, you know, I really hate, but I understand why it's there. Is there any way to bypass that? I mean, or do, do I need to just work through the eight stages and that's how life works?

Right. I've got three comments. First is yes, losing a beloved animal is just as serious an issue as losing a beloved person. So that's fair enough. The second one is, I don't go for stages. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross proposed a very flexible and subtle theory, which then got completely transformed by common lack of wisdom, and she repudiated the everyday view of it. Rather than stages, I go with

another Elizabeth, Elizabeth Harper-Neeld, whose book is called Seven Choices. There are a number of choice points, and each time if you make the right choice, you progress, but you can go backwards and forwards. My book uses her theoretical model, illustrated by case studies from my clients, and a bit of fun. But, so, no, there are no stages.

Acceptance, you can have acceptance immediately. You can have anger at, say, the passing of a young person years after you've resolved your grief. It's all over the place. It's not time sequence, it's the way you deal with things at any one time and it's an yoyo, you go up and down. But the third thing is the only way to deal with anything is to go through it. So you were correcting that one. Never mind how much you dislike it, the only way is true. One of the problems some people use, antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs or even worse addictive

substances like alcohol to hide from the grief and it doesn't work. It just sits in a box and waits to bite you in the bum when you least expect it. And then besides, then all the avoidance things that you try to use are an extra negative. But one of the reasons I could deal with anything is the concept of equanimity or acceptance. It's a Buddhist term, but it's also in the Old Testament, the Torah, it's in the Bible, it's in the Koran, it's in all the wisdoms, which is simply whatever is, is, and I accept it. And it's quite a complex thing to explain, and it's a difficult thing to do at first, but once you practice it, it's very easy. I have used it to handle very severe chronic pain for years.

Really? And that functioned fine. And I had painkillers with me and usually didn't bother to take them. Ah, so you use the techniques in your book. So in your book, you help people process these things. I mean, to me, you know, actually, even though I'm not a fan of the stages of grief and going through that process of, you know, letting things go, recognizing that that's the process you're going to go through kind of helps, you know, and I think that's the same thing

your book kind of does. It acknowledges that, hey, there is going to be grief, there are going to be times there's a hole in your life, and here's the tools and blueprints that you can take and utilize to make it work for you. Does that sound about right as an assessment? Oh, that's approximately perfect. Yeah. Well, that's why I have a show. Or not. Anyway, what else in the book do you want to tease out to people that maybe we haven't touched on or maybe you think is applicable to what people need there? Okay. One of the things is resilience, bouncing backness. Basically, I'm a purogostik, the harder the world jumps on me, the higher I bounce.

Ah! Okay? Now, that, it's partly genetic. I mean, my mother was amazing. She was the most resilient person I know. Survived the unsurvivable more than once

and accomplished the impossible more than once, including building a million dollar business behind the Iron Curtain in colony of Russia of the Soviet Union. And my book that has won the most awards is her biography, not because she's my mother, but because she was amazing. So I've inherited that. But also there are seven activities that make you more resilient, that increase and protect your resilience. And when you are under stress, when you suffer, including grieving, but whatever, it's those seven things that you tend to drop out of your life. When you check out my book at my blog, there will be a link to these first aid measures,

the seven magic bullets. Ah, seven magic bullets. The two most important for reducing the suffering is creativity and fun. Hmm, creativity and fun. Pete Hr 2.50 Hmm. Creativity and fun. So, tell us kind of about your journey through life. How did you become a psychiatrist? What got you into these fields? I'm sorry? Fr. Leo Alright. Okay, psychologist. Very big difference. Pete Hr 2.50 Oh, go ahead and correct me for what the proper title is, I guess. Fr. Leo No, it doesn't matter. Go ahead and correct me for what the proper title is, I guess. How did you get into the field you were in?

When did you start writing? What motivated you to start writing? How did you know you were good at it? We have a lot of aspiring authors that listened on the show. Okay, well, that's several questions. When I was in high school, I wanted to be a physicist because I wanted to benefit humankind. I was at university and in those ancient days nuclear was physics and it horrified me. It horrifies me to the present day. The

only safe nuclear reactor is eight light minutes away. Wow. You know that big yellow ball up there? Yeah, the white, the sun one. That's the one. All right. Firstly, science had physics, chemistry, mathematics, and one of the signs. And thanks to the inspiration of a high school teacher I had, physics, chemistry, mathematics, and one other science.

And thanks to the inspiration of a high school teacher I had, I chose psychology as my fourth subject. So when I got disgusted with physics, I switched to psychology. All right. And what was it that drew you to that? Like why, what was the point there you made that changeover? Mr. Woods, this teacher, who got me on the debating team, I spoke with an accent and I said, I can't do debating, I speak with an accent. He said, you speak with an accent and you can do debating. And I was the whip and we became second in a statewide competition beaten by a private

girls school and the way that happened was this gorgeous blonde came up to me betting her eyelashes and gave me her phone number. So my head was filled with pink cotton wool and I couldn't do my job as whip and so we came second. This teacher used to fascinate us with stories about his university days including his psychology studies. And so he was one of my guides, I didn't know it at the time, who showed me in the direction I needed to go. And so hence you end up that way, right?

Yeah. And then I'm cursed with too much empathy. And so I didn't go in for therapy, went in for research. going for therapy, went in for research. And then later on in life, I trained as a nurse and that toughened me up. One of the lessons in nursing is it's not your pain, you're not there to share it but to relieve it. And in psychotherapy, it's even one better, you're not even there to relieve it, but to empower your client to relieve it. So the only person who can fix you is yourself. Yeah, that is very true.

So then I went back to university and did extra qualification in counseling psychology and there it was. Anyway, you asked me about how did I start writing. Yeah. I was building my own house from what we call mud bricks and you call adobe. And I was happily, it was winter so I was wearing rubber boots and happily stomping away in the mud when a bunch of teenagers descended on me and kidnapped me. They were having a soccer game boys versus girls and they were short of one

male. So didn't bother taking my boots off, slipped on the mud and tore a cartilage in my knee. Let me tell you, that's not a good idea. That's not a good idea. So in hospital I borrowed the office typewriter, that's how long ago it was, and I wrote an article about a new way of making mud bricks, adobe bricks, for a marvelous magazine that's now died of old age. But I had a byline after this article, after they accepted this, I had a byline column with them from 1980 until oh 2020, 22 something like that, 2020, 2022, something like that, when they stopped publication. And so that was my entry to writing. And my words took flight, and I built up quite an audience.

And after six years, I wrote to the publisher saying, why don't you and I write a book together about build on a building? And I checked my mail and there was a letter from him with the same suggestion. So we wrote a book called the Earth Garden magazine, so the Earth Garden building book, How to Design and Build Your own house. And it got grabbed by a publisher, which was then taken over by Penguin. So it was by Penguin Australia. It went through four editions and sold hundreds of thousands of books in the tiny Australian market. And when my younger daughter went woofing around the country, you know what woofing is?

No, I don't. Willing workers on organic farms. Okay. A marvelous organization. She and a friend went around Australia and about 80% of her hosts had my book on their shelves. Oh, wonderful. So that was my first book.

Then the second one was woodworking for idiots like me. Because you see, I'm the most impractical, oh, no, I'm sorry. I used to be the most impractical person on this planet. My stepfather's assessment was me was if something can be done the wrong way or even if it can't he'll do it that way first. And that's true to the present day. I'm a genius at misreading instructions and doing them the wrong way. Every time I assemble something, I have some

spare parts left over. Isn't it funny how that works? When I was 21, I discovered, yeah, sure, it's true, but if someone else can do it, I can learn it. And I was about 43 when I discovered there is no such thing as a mistake, fault or defect. There are only learning opportunities. And that was when I didn't just control my depression, I cured my depression. My previous two books before this one is From Depression to Contentment, a Self-Therapy Guide, and then it has a companion volume, but that's the important one. And that describes how I went from chronic suffering to normal, which is the walking wounded.

And from that up to completely unaffected by anything, the world cares to show with me, bring it on world. Yeah. Like I said, Pogo stick. That's me. Pogo stick. I like the concept there. And bounce anyway. So that's how my writing started in a hospital bed.

Well, sometimes what is that? Uh, necessity meets opportunity or opportunity meets necessity. Sometimes is the best format to make it all work. Next question. What, what else do you do on your, do you have any other offerings that you offer on your website? Any consulting? Any advisory? Can people telecommute, tele-call with you for tele-help and medical advice? Do they need to be local? Tell us how that works for you. Peter Piotrowski I have retired. I do pro bono work.

I do pro bono work, that is great. People, I have posted responses to calls of despair on public venues, and people have tracked me down as a result. And every now and then I, you know, somewhere between ten and a dozen a year, somebody new who will send me an email or something like, somewhere between 10 and a dozen a year, somebody knew, they were sending me an email or something like, I found condoms in my husband's pockets, and we don't use them. Yeah.

Oh, that's why there's condoms in your husband's pockets. Or give me one reason why I shouldn't murder everybody in my school. Oh jeez, that's not the call. That's definitely an immediate, let's get some help on that one. Right? Or when I was 12, I sexually abused a younger child and just tell me before I kill myself should I go to the police first? Wow. All right, I get letters like this. All sorts of issues.

You know, my parents hate me. I would run away but I've got nowhere to go. How do I go? Yeah. I've got the gift of healing words and I can, and I can set them on the right path. Yeah. And many of them stay on for years. Uh, just, just the other day, uh, I got an email from a young man in America, he's 24 now, he was 16 when

he contacted me. He was one of the ones I was thinking of when he was 12, he sexually abused a couple of other kids. Now he's using the tools he learned from me to help other people with depression or guilt or anxiety. He's not a therapist, but he's an amateur, but he's really good at it. And so he's one of my grandchildren. I've got hundreds and hundreds. Pete Slauson Is that what the professional grandfather meant when I was introducing that what the professional grandfather meant? When I was introducing

that in the bio? Peter Wiesman Mm hmm. Pete Slauson Ah, do they pay you for that? Or you're just doing that out of love and good and kindness and helping others? Peter Wiesman Look, money often costs more than it's worth. I'm not that interested in money. Pete Slauson Money often costs more than it's worth. Peter Wiesman Yeah. Pete Slauson Interesting. Yeah. Peter Wiesman The problem is costs more than it's worth. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

The problem is not money, it's greed. Ah! Greed is what's wrecking our world. This planet is in its sixth major extinction event, the next one since the dinosaurs. The difference is that this one is progressing. It was a matter of 250, 300 years instead of thousands of years and it's caused by humans and it's because of greed. These terrible wars that we're having in the Middle East, in the Ukraine, there are 120 armed conflicts currently progressing. They're all due to greed. Yeah.

Greed, people. You know, it's interesting human nature. We seem to never learn. One of the most important teachers in this life was my uncle. He had two aims in life, to screw as many women as he could and to make as much money as he could, never mind who he trampled on. So early on I decided to be a faithful husband and I realized that no, money is not important. Being of benefit is far more important. Anyway, at my blog, Bobbing Around, I have an essay, How to Change the World, and that sets out the logic.

And so you help people so they can reach out to you. Do you do any speaking? Do you do telemedicine where people can call you? Do you practice there locally if people are curious about that? No. Okay. As I said, I've retired. I'm actually not allowed to do that. Okay. Once you're retired, you're retired. In Australia, the word psychologist is registered, which means I can say I have a PhD in psychology and offered counseling psychology services.

But if I were to say, I am a retired psychologist with that ST on the end, I've broken the law. Oh, well, we don't want to, cause that's bad. And it's, that can be bad. Uh, so, uh, yeah, let's, uh, uh, so as we round out the show, give people a final pitch out to reach out to you to find out more about your book and everything there in between. Oh, you also asked about what else do I have at my blog? There are lots and lots of free short stories to read. I have a monthly column together with other bloggers on writing. So if you're interested in

being a writer, I have a monthly newsletter and I'm a very active environmental and political activist. I want to make this world a better place. Yeah, we need all the help we can get if you've seen us lately, right? Well, Bob, thank you very much for coming on the show. Give us any dot coms where people can find you on the internet as we go out. Give us your dot coms, Bob, where people can find you on the interwebs. Where's the chat? Just call it out.

What are your dot coms so people can… Okay. Bobrich18.wordpress.com. And there'll be a link on the Chris Walsh show as well. Uh, order a Bob's book where refined books are sold the whole in your life, grief and bereavement on June 24th, 2025. Thanks for tuning in. Good at Goodreads.com.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Anybody who sends me proof of purchase of any of my books gets a second book for free, an electronic book. Oh, what a deal there. And anybody who subscribes to my blog also is offered a free book and I would think you might want two separate ones rather than one. And if you email me a review of a book, that's proof of purchase, unless I send it to you for free. Off we go. And thanks for my honest for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, Chris Foss One on the Tik Tokity and Chris Foss Facebook.com. And that's where you can find all the cool stuff and all the great stuff there.

Thanks for watching and be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time and that should have a sound.