The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Last Million: Europe’s Displaced Persons from World War to Cold War by David Nasaw

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

The Last Million: Europe's Displaced Persons from World War to Cold War by David Nasaw From bestselling author David Nasaw, a sweeping new history of the one million refugees left behind in Germany after WWII In May 1945, after German forces surrendered to the Allied powers, millions of concentration camp survivors, POWs, slave laborers, political prisoners, and Nazi collaborators were left behind in Germany, a nation in ruins. British and American soldiers attempted to repatriate the refugees, but more than a million displaced persons remained in Germany: Jews, Poles, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, and other Eastern Europeans who refused to go home or had no homes to return to. Most would eventually be resettled in lands suffering from postwar labor shortages, but no nation, including the United States, was willing to accept more than a handful of the 200,000 to 250,000 Jewish men, women, and children who remained trapped in Germany. When in June, 1948, the United States Congress passed legislation permitting the immigration of displaced persons, visas were granted to sizable numbers of war criminals and Nazi collaborators, but denied to 90% of the Jewish displaced persons. A masterwork from acclaimed historian David Nasaw, The Last Million tells the gripping but until now hidden story of postwar displacement and statelessness and of the Last Million, as they crossed from a broken past into an unknowable future, carrying with them their wounds, their fears, their hope, and their secrets. Here for the first time, Nasaw illuminates their incredible history and shows us how it is our history as well.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks response here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming here with another great podcast who knew oops we did it again wait do i have to pay royalties if I say that? Sorry, Brittany. Anyway, guys, we did do it again and we just keep doing them over and over again. Wait to

see this upcoming schedule and the author we have on today. Just amazing, amazing book authors and people of brilliant minds and stuff. And of course, you have me as leftovers. So there you go. That's why we have the smart people on is to make me look pretty anyway. And you can't make me look any more pretty than I am already, or maybe you can't, I don't know, but plastic surgeons all are in line. Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Fortuna's Christmas to hit that bell notification button. You can also subscribe. My new book has got a giveaway they're doing, the Goodreads giveaway. So you can subscribe to that. It's free for, I don't know, till October 5th or something. You can go to youtube.com, Fortuna's Christmas, see the video version of this. And you can also, that's also free too, just so you know.

You can also go to all of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, wherever the cool kids are playing. We're just trying to keep up with them. So we're excited to announce my new book is coming out. It's called Beacons of Leadership, Inspiring Lessons of Success in Business and Innovation. It's going to be coming out on October 5th, 2021. And I'm really excited for you to get a chance to read this book. It's filled with a multitude of my insightful stories, lessons, my life, and experiences in leadership and character. I give you some of the secrets from my CEO Entrepreneur Toolbox that I use to scale my

business success, innovate, and build a multitude of companies. I've been a CEO for, what is it, like 33, 35 years now. We talk about leadership, the importance of leadership, how to become a great leader, and how anyone can become a great leader as well. So you can pre-order the book right now wherever fine books are sold, but the best thing to do on getting a pre-order deal is to go to beaconsofleadership.com. That's beaconsofleadership.com. On there, you can find several packages you can take advantage of in ordering the book. And for the same price of what you can get it from someplace else like Amazon,

you can get all sorts of extra goodies that we've taken and given away. Different collectors, limited edition, custom-made numbered book plates that are going to be autographed by me. There's all sorts of other goodies that you can get when you buy the book from beaconsofleadership.com. So be sure to go there, check it out, or order the book wherever fine books are sold. Today we have an amazing author on the book. He is a multi-book author.

He's written a lot of really intelligent stuff. You should read all of everything that he wrote. You can find it on the Amazon or wherever fine books are sold. But today he's here to promote the launch of his paper book. The hardback had come out a year ago and now the paperback is out. So you can get that as a blast right off the shelf. Just came out September 14th, 2021. The name of the book is The Last Million, Europe's Displaced Persons from World War to Cold War. His name is David Nassa, and he's on the show today to talk about his latest book, of course. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Andrew Carnegie, a Pulitzer Prize finalist,

and winner of the New York Historical Society's American History Book Prize. As an award-winning biographer, he vividly illuminates the inner and outer lives of notable historical figures like Joseph P. Kennedy, the subject of one of his most recent works, The Patriarch. Welcome to the show, David. How are you? Delighted to be here. You are so delighted to be here, I can tell, and we're glad to have you. Thank you. It's quite an honor. Welcome to the here. You are so delighted to be here, I can tell, and we're glad to have you. Thank you. It's quite an honor. Welcome to the show. And also, congratulations on the book, at least the paperback book coming out. So that's always fun. Give us your plugs for people to find you on the interwebs. The easiest way to find me is to just plug in my name and you can get my information

from my webpage at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, where I teach. There you go. There you go. What motivated you to want to write this book? I am asked that question at the beginning of every interview, and it's the right question to ask. I thought I was special there, David. Yeah, it's been a year now since the book was published, and I still don't have a good answer. When I finished my biography of Joe Kennedy, I was struck by the effect that World War II had on everyone, certainly on the Kennedy family. They lost their oldest son, Joe Jr.,

who the Kennedys expected to be the first Kennedy president, the first Irish Catholic president. Jack Kennedy, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, to the rest of you, came back from the war emaciated, suffering from malaria, hardly able to stand up because of a bad back and no one quite believed that he would last the year or five years or 10 years his father never thought he would be president because he never thought he'd live that long wow and this was just one American family.

So I began to look a little bit into the history of World War II in the immediate post-war period. And the more I looked, especially to what was going on in Europe, the more astounded I was at what appeared to me to be a missing history in American, missing chapter in American history, in the history of Europe, in World War II history, in the history of civilization. And that missing chapter has to do with the aftermath of war. We believe, or we've been taught to believe, that when a war is over, the suffering ceases. We have seen that that's not going on in Afghanistan today. And that certainly didn't go on in Europe at the end of World War II.

What I discovered was the story, and what I tell in my book, is the story of a million refugees who at war's end were stuck in Germany. Wow. For many of them, the last place they wanted to be. And why were they stuck there? They were stuck there because the Jewish Holocaust survivors, they had no homes to go back to. Yeah. Or like thousands of Lithuanian and Latvian and Ukrainian

and Estonian refugees. They had participated with the Nazis. And they knew if they got home, the Red Army and the Communist Party and the Soviets would send them, if they were lucky, into exile or worse. Or there were the Polish refugees, a half a million of them, whose nation had been destroyed and had now been colonized by the Soviet Union. And they didn't want to go home because they feared tyranny. They feared starvation. They feared a loss of jobs.

They knew their nation had been destroyed. And they thought they might have better lives somewhere else. You would want to go back to Stalin. That doesn't sound like fun at all. No, it wasn't. But worse than Stalin was the detritus of war. Poland was just wiped out during the war. First, it was divided in half between the Russians and the Germans,

then the Germans invaded. And by the time the war was over, the country lay in ruins, absolute ruins. Fields were destroyed, infrastructure destroyed, mines and mills and the factories destroyed. And this was the case through much of Eastern Europe. The Americans tried to help out and did their best with all sorts of aid in the Marshall Plan, but it would take decades, decades to undo the damage. And what is the lesson that we should learn from what we did in these wars? Did we ever learn a lesson? Do we keep doing this where we just go to wars?

And then if back in the days when we did liberate people, we're like, hey, you're all liberated. Yeah, thanks. We're out of here, man. Yeah. I don't know what the answer I come up with is. Sounds simplistic. But the solution is not to fight wars,

to find other ways around wars. I wrote a book, a biography of Andrew Carnegie, and Carnegie became a pacifist in his old age, a real pacifist. He was against the Spanish-American War. He was against the Great War. If he had lived long enough, he would have been against World War II. And he said, if two guys get in a fight, fist fight, somebody's going to get bloody. He said, but if those guys have guns, somebody's going to end up dead. And in modern warfare, it's not only someone, it's millions who end up wounded or dead. And because air war now dominates with bombers and jets and drones, countries get destroyed. I know that war is not going to be abolished in my lifetime or my grandson's lifetime. We've got to do our best.

Before we go to war, we've got to understand that the suffering is going to continue for a long time. So in your book, I imagine you detail a lot of the suffering and the fallout from war. Is that correct? Yeah, Yeah. My book is about what I call this hidden chapter in the history of the post-war in which these million refugees were stuck, isolated, exiled in refugee camps. They were then called displaced persons camps, where they spent from three to five years waiting for some nation and some people to take them in.

And in the beginning, in 1945, one might say that the Cold War really begins over the refugees. The Soviets and their Soviet allies say, and they're partly right, that any refugees, except for the Jews, who were left behind in Germany and they don't want to go home, there can only be two reasons. One, they're too damn lazy to return to their devastated homelands and rebuild them. Or they've collaborated with the Nazis and they're war criminals and they know if they go home, they'll be punished. The Americans and the British said, no, if people don't want to go home, we, the victors in war, have to take care of them. We have to feed them.

We have to shelter them until they're ready to go home. into the displaced persons camps. The Americans and the British said, okay, we will try to find a place somewhere in the world for these million refugees. It would take another couple years for them to be resettled. And for the Jewish survivors, for the Jewish survivors, there was no nation on earth that were including the United States. And they hoped and prayed that somehow the British who controlled what is now known as Israel and then Palestine,

they prayed and hoped that the British would somehow let them in to Palestine. what is now known as Israel and then Palestine, they prayed and hoped that the British would somehow let them in to Palestine. The survivors of World War II, they certainly were not going to stay in Europe anymore. And the British refused. So for three long, four long years, these people who had survived the Holocaust remained in displaced persons camps. At some point in the first months after the end of the war, Harry Truman in the State Department sent an advisor. His name was Earl Harrison. He was a Quaker who had become an Episcopalian

and was the dean of the law school at the University of Pennsylvania. And they sent him to Germany to investigate what was going on with these million people, especially the Jews, the refugees in the displaced persons

camps. And Harrison came back and said to Harry Truman, and Truman, I came away with a lot of respect for Truman and Eisenhower after writing this book. But Truman, instead of sending Harrison off to some underling, invited him into the White House office. And he said, I've read your report. He said, I'm horrified to hear you write that we, the Americans, are treating the Jewish survivors exactly like the Nazis did, except we're not exterminating them. Wow. We're keeping them in camps behind barbed wire.

And Truman at that point sat down and he wrote a letter. People wrote letters in those days. Remember those days? I remember those days.

Truman writes a letter. And he writes a letter to Dwight David Eisenhower. And he says, something's wrong. Look into this. And Eisenhower goes and he visits the Jewish camps. And not only does he visit the Jewish camps, but he goes to Yom Kippur services to show his solidarity with the Jewish survivors. And trudging alongside of him is one of the worst anti-Semites in American history.

It's General George Patton. Oh, wow. And Patton says, I talk about this in the book, Patton says when he writes in his diary, which he can't imagine is ever going to get published, but it does get published. He writes in his book, these Jewish survivors, they're dirty, they're filthy, they're stupid. He said they're worse than animals. He said, why is Eisenhower treating them like this? So this is the Americans, and this is another lesson for us today, I guess. It's what we do is we think that we can take care of these million refugees, including the Jews, and the Lithuanians, and the Latvians, and the Lithuanians and the Latvians and the Yugoslavs and the Poles by feeding

them and putting roofs over their heads in, you know, refugee camps. We treat them almost like pets, like household animals. And it's better than starving to death. It's better than being homeless. But it's not enough for the last million. What were some of the worst stories that you heard out of the book or that you wrote about in the book, I should say? Yeah. Oh, God, there are just so many.

The worst stories are in the Ukrainian camps. There are battles over the future of Ukraine. Ukraine had never really been independent, and it was now part of the Soviet Union. And the Ukrainians in the camps were divided between those who wanted to go home and make the best life they could, and those who said, no, we've got to put together an independence movement. And we've got to persuade the Americans and the British to start World War III.

And the political battles within the Ukrainian camps were dreadful. There were assassinations. There were murders. There were armed warfare within those camps among the refugees who had very different ideas about the future. For the Jews, there were any number of difficulties. some of the greatest difficulty was trying to find out who among their family and friends and neighbors was alive and who had perished. Wow. And imagine, just try to imagine this. Imagine a world without televisions, without telephones, without effective mail service, without an internet, without a

computer. How do you find out what's going on hundreds of miles away? Well, the only way to do that is to walk home. And a lot of the Jews, the Jewish survivors who had come from Poland, they hitched rides on army trucks. They rode the rails. They went home. And when they got back to their hometowns in Poland, they discovered that nobody was alive. Wow. And that the only safe place for them, because there was increased anti-Semitism in Poland after the war, the only safe place for them, and what an irony this is, was Germany in the American zone, protected by American soldiers. Talk about the irony of all that. Yeah, I mean, it's difficult to believe you know it's that the only place that the jews could find and and this is same as the poles the germans had destroyed poland um but they found themselves you know trapped in refugee camps in Germany for the duration of the years

after the cessation of hostilities. It's really interesting to me when you study history of America and we created the Nazis. We created them, but we basically exported ebonics to them, right? And taught them, is it ebonics or them, right? Yeah. And taught them.

Is it ebonics or? Eugenics. Eugenics. I'm sorry. I got that incorrect. I was Googling that to try and remember. Yeah. So we exported eugenics to them.

Henry Ford, who was the guy who flowed the spirit of Linz, Charles Lindbergh. Yeah. Giant freaking racists are over there getting promoted. And I think, I forget the name of the gal who wrote the great book last year but she talks about how even the nazis looked at some of our racist tactics that we use in america we're like we're not going to go that far but we gave them just all sorts of license to go just just horrifically bad with the jewish people and and up until you know the very end when they started world war we were like best buds

and here we import that we seed it we create it then we got to go send everybody's uh kids to go die in the war to take it back that we create then we create we save all these the jewish people but then we don't we just leave them like you're talking about we don't even allow them back into america and then of course eventually they have they go to israel and and then that's just been a mess for here's a you know tragic irony number two no nation on earth will accept the jews and one of the reasons they won't accept the jews and this is just so crazy off the charts, it's hard to believe, that a group of southern senators and congressmen and some Democrats, all of them, and some Midwestern Republicans claim that the Jews are communist. The Jews are Bolsheviks.

And where did they get that idea? That idea had been floating around, that anti-Semitic myth, since the Russian Revolution. But now these senators and congressmen, and again, this is all in my book, The Last Million, these senators and congressmen say, we can't let these Jews into this country because where are they from? Where were they born? They were born in Poland. Poland's a communist country,

but hadn't been when they were born there. Or they spent the war in the Soviet Union. Why did they spend the war in the Soviet Union? Because it was the only way to escape the nazis wow so these southern senators saying if they were born in poland or they spent the war in the soviet union or both and they became communists and therefore we can't let them into this country truman understood the problems and truman is he's a human being he's a he being. The Yiddish word is mensch. He's a man among men. And Truman believes that

he's got to get the Jews out of Germany. That it is a second crime against humanity to keep them in Germany. But more than that, he wants West Germany to be its own nation. But you can't create a new nation with a quarter million Jews in camps that are now going to fall under German law and under

German police. So he's got to get them out of Germany before he can allow an independent West Germany. So for geopolitical reasons and for humanitarian reasons, he's got to get him out of Germany. The first thing he tries to do is to persuade the British. He says to the British, open the gate to Palestine for the Jews. Let them in. And the British say, mind your own business. If you care for the Jews that much, let them into New York. So Truman tries and tries again and that fails. Then he tries to get American immigration laws changed. He tries to get an emergency immigration law

to let in not only the Jews, but the other refugees, the refugees from World War II. He tries to get a Displaced Persons Act. And it takes three years to get this act passed. And when it's finally passed, these Southern Democrats and Midwestern Republicans I talked about put an amendment on it saying that no Jews who had ever been in the Soviet Union and no Jews who had come into Germany, you know, in 1946, which is 90% of the Jews ended up there in 1946, because they had gone home to look for their family, can get these special visas. So we accept 200,000 displaced persons, but no Jews.

So what does Truman do? He supports the partition of Palestine, and then he supports a Jewish state in Palestine. Now, here's the irony. It's a long lead up to it, and I apologize for that. Here's the irony. The only place that the Jews can go is Palestine, which becomes Israel. And where do they settle? They settle in homes that the Arab Palestinians had left,

either because they were thrown out of them by the Israeli army or because they were frightened or for one or another reason. So the displaced persons from World War II are beneficiaries of a second wave of displacement and the creation of a Palestinian refugee problem. This stuff is too bizarre to make up. They arrive, the Jews arrived in Palestine in 1948, and they're sent to settlements that the Palestinians had fled.

They're put in homes and apartments that the Palestinians have fled. One displaced person, one group of displaced persons is settled in homes abandoned by another group of displaced persons. Wow. What a mess. What a freaking mess. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. You know, when a war is over.

This is another thing I learned here. When a war is over, the government and the military want to declare victory, run up the flag, salute and smile. And the people back at home are tired of that war. And they want to do the same thing. Future generations are given a history that leaves out most of the suffering that's generated after that war. And that's the story, that missing absence story I tried to tell. What other tidbits can we tease out on the book before we go on? You know, one of the things I want to mention, and this is a major part of the book,

is I said very early in our conversation that a large number of the refugees in Germany were Nazi collaborators. And the reason why they put themselves in displaced persons camps was they knew if they went home to Latvia or Lithuania or Ukraine or Romania, they'd be tried for war crimes. So they disguised themselves as displaced persons, a Ukrainian or a Latvian who had served the Nazis as an auxiliary policeman rounding up Jews or had put on a German uniform and served in the Waffen-SS. And they knew damn well what was going to happen if they went home. So they hid their, they burned their uniforms. Lots of them tried to remove the tattoos. Do you remember the SS, you got a tattoo under your arm. They tried to remove those tattoos. They claimed that they had been farmers during the war. They got into the displaced persons camps. And because American, the INS, the Immigration and Naturalization Service,

and the FBI didn't investigate very closely, these war criminals found their way into the United States of America. Isn't that insane? They can get in, but no one can get in. So they get into the United States in 1948, 1949, 1950. Some of them are paid for by the military and the CIA and the State Department and the Army.

Others just sneak in. Nobody knows who the hell they are. They just sneak in. They change their names. They rebuild their lives. They become Americans. A lot of them live in Florida. There's a group in Cleveland.

There's a group that lives in Brooklyn Queens and Long Island some upstate New York all over the country and it is not until they get into this country and there are voices screaming Romanian nationalists

Ukrainian nationalists Jewish survivors point them out. They say nobody listens. Wow. It's not until the mid-1970s that newspaper reporters and a couple of congressmen are leaked information. Again, you can't make this stuff up.

Leaked information. Again, you can't make this stuff up. Leaked information. Someone at INS distributes an internal memo that says that there are more than 100 war criminals that the INS knows about. They know where they live. They know their former names who are in this country. Wow. And they've been in the country for 25 years. So beginning in the middle 1970s, there is this

attempt to get these guys out of the country. American law says you can't be tried for a crime that took place outside the United States of America. So we can't try these war criminals for their crimes. All we can do is deport them. Was there a reason that the sentiment of that changed in opinion to, to finally get those guys out? Was there some sort of sea change that happened? Yes, it's a very interesting question.

Yeah, yeah, I think there is. I think it has a lot to do with the passage of time, by the mid-1970s, those who had lived through World War II and suffered through World War II had given way to a new generation, or there was a new generation of people who were younger, who were revisiting what had happened in World War II. And certainly what had happened in the Holocaust. You know, the Eichmann trial changes everything. Nobody even used the word Holocaust until the Eichmann trial or the publication of the Diary of Anne Frank. And suddenly Americans began to look again, I think, at World War II. And they wanted justice.

You know, justice delayed is still justice. Eventually, a unit is set up within the Justice Department to ferret out these war criminals. But by the time they're finally brought to trial to be deported, they're in their 70s and their 80s. They don't look like war criminals anymore. Yeah, they look like little men. They look like men. They don't look dangerous. They've got children and grandchildren and neighbors to vouch for them.

But the proof is irrefutable. They've got the goods on these guys. And not many, but dozens are deported. And once the Americans begin to investigate, the British and the Canadians and the Australians, who had also accepted displaced persons, the Canadians and the British and the Australians, because there were post-war labor shortages, they discover and they begin to ferret out these war criminals. The nations of the, part of what's going on

in the late 40s and early 50s is that the British and the Americans and the Canadians and the Australians say to themselves, the Nazis are defeated. Hitler's dead. Goering's dead. Goebbels is dead. Himmler's dead. Goering's dead.

Goebbels is dead. Himmler's dead. We won the war. Now we're in the midst of a Cold War. So our enemy is no longer the Nazis. It's the commies. It's no longer the Gestapo. It's the KGB.

And so what? That these people were Nazi sympathizers. Let bygones be bygones. And that's part of the rationale, the justification for not looking more closely and letting these people into the various countries. There's a story I tell in the book, which again, defies imagination. All the, as I said, the Latvian, if you remember the SS, whether you're a Latvian or a Ukrainian or an Estonian, you get a tattoo under your armpit. And in Britain, Britain imports a lot of displaced persons, especially from Latvia, who had experience as coal miners. And they bring them into the country in the late 1940s, and they put them to work in the coal mines. The coal mines are populated by a lot of political lefties, socialists and communists. And a lot of them,

whether they were Labour Party members or whatever, or conservatives, they had lost relatives in World War II. And they discover that the British government has sent to work beside them members, people with SS tattoos. How do they discover it? Because if you work in a coal mine, you take off your shirt when you finish your shift. And the British miners see these tattoos, and they go out on strike immediately.

So the British government convenes a special meeting. Of the coal board. And the home secretary. And the foreign affairs secretary. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? So one decision they could have made. Would have been.

To very carefully investigate anyone before they let them into Great Britain. But no. The decision they make is they'll let in anybody. And if they happen to be former members of the Vathan SS, they'll make sure

to put them in jobs where they don't have to take off their shirts. So no one will know. Sad, but true story. I can't hear you. We had some background noise. Anything more you want to touch on before we go out? Well, no.

I just want to say that it was painful to write this book. I don't want to feel sanctimonious here. But as a historian, one feels that it's a job, a task, a mission to fill in the gaps, correct the mistake. I don't quite believe that if you know the

errors of the past, you're not going to repeat them. I don't believe that. But I do believe that an understanding of our past, a real, true, deep understanding of our past, of the glories and the horrors of our past as a people, as a nation, can help us navigate the future. And what I discovered in this last chapter of American history, in this chapter in our immigration and refugee history, was that Americans are good people, but sometimes our elected representatives operate more out of fear than out of hope.

And instead of welcoming for humanitarian and other reasons, the displaced persons into this country, we shut out the best of them and we shouldn't let that happen again. We definitely shouldn't. The one thing man can learn from his history, I always say, is that man never learns from his history. It just goes around and around. The one thing man can learn from his history is that man never learns from his history. Quote from me. So thank you. It's been interesting to have you on the show, learning so much about history. And we've seen this just revisited with Afghanistan and stuff.

20 years of war and trillions of dollars and within a week, just a waste of time, really. Waste of lives. It's a sad, unfortunate thing. But thank you for coming on the show and sharing the book with us. Give us your plugs again so people can order the book up and get to know your library better. Yeah. The title of the book is the last million Europe's displaced persons from world war to cold war. It is just out in paperback. It should be in your local bookstore. If it isn't,

you yell at him and it is available at all the obvious places, bookshop, Amazon, Barnes & Noble. And let me say also, I'm happy when I'm given talks like this, I'm contacted by a lot of people whose grandparents or relatives were displaced persons. And please get in touch. My email address is on the web. Get in touch if you have a story to tell me or questions about your past and your family's past that you think I might be able to help with. There you go. There you go.

Well, we certainly appreciate you coming by the show today. Thank you very much, David. My pleasure. There you go. Guys, pick it up. The paperback is out September 14th, 2021. So it's out in bookstores. Like you said, now you can of course get it in all the different formats, wherever fine books are sold, but only go to the places where the fine books are sold.

Don't go to those dark alleyways. Those are dangerous. You might trip over something or need a tetanus shot. Anyway, guys, we certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Go to goodreads.com for Jessica Rizvaz. See everything we're reading and reviewing over there. Also go to all the groups we have on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, all those great places. Also go to youtube.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, and see all the wonderful interviews we have with brilliant authors like David over there as well. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time. So we're excited to announce my new book is coming out.

It's called Beacons of Leadership, Inspiring Lessons of Success in Business and Innovation. It's going to be coming out on October 5th, 2021. And I'm really excited for you to get a chance to read this book. It's filled with a multitude of my insightful stories, lessons, my life, and experiences in leadership and character. I give you some of the secrets from my CEO Entrepreneur Toolbox that I use to scale my business success, innovate, and build a multitude of companies. I've been a CEO for, what is it, like 33, 35 years now. We talk about leadership, the importance of leadership, how to become a great leader, and how anyone can become a great leader as well.

So you can pre-order the book right now wherever fine books are sold, but the best thing to do on getting a pre-order deal is to go to beaconsofleadership.com. That's beaconsofleadership.com. On there, you can find several packages you can take advantage of in ordering the book. And for the same price of what you can get it from someplace else like Amazon, you can get all sorts of extra goodies that we've taken and given away. Different collectors, limited edition, custom made numbered book plates that are going to be autographed by me. There's all sorts of other goodies that you can get when you buy the book

from beaconsofleadership.com. So be sure to go there, check it out or order the book wherever fine books are sold.