The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Reaction to Inaction, How Organizations, Employees, and Customers Lose When People Fail To Act by Jack Jackson

Episode Date: June 23, 2024

The Reaction to Inaction, How Organizations, Employees, and Customers Lose When People Fail To Act by Jack Jackson Thereactiontoinactionbook.com ABOUT THE BOOK How It Will Change Your Entire Organization Jack Jackson, an award winning and seasoned executive, has been working on this book for twenty years. Over his twenty-year career as an Executive he has taken detailed notes, interviewed researchers, psychologists, business leaders, and personally witnessed firsthand the downgrade of the American company. For decades now modern American companies, organizations, and teams have operated within an old-fashioned and archaic methodology. Organizations from corporate America to the US military have spent millions of dollars on fancy retreats, consultants, coaches, and “experts” to improve performance. This framework for the organization of the future will shape and build your organization into a powerhouse of performance, a culture of innovators, entrepreneurs, free thinkers and high achievers. This book helps every team member from the janitor to the Chief Executive Officer find purpose and fulfillment in their day-to-day work and strive to be their absolute best. A COMPLETELY NEW FRAMEWORK FOR THE FUTURE OF BUSINESS This book IS “the anti-coach book. The anti-consultant book, the anti 'I bought this leadership book and now I am asking my team to read it' book." In this groundbreaking and genuinely new approach to modern business, Jackson offers a framework and blueprint backed by research and years of data that will once again ignite American business innovation and inspire teams to achieve at the highest level. Real World Application This book is not meant to be read once and left alone. This book is meant for everyone within a team, an organization or enterprises of any size and any industry that wants to drastically improve. This book is designed and written for real world application. Each chapter comes with templates, how to’s and suggestions to implement the framework that will radically change your organization and begin your journey to excellence. The Power of Now Discover the transformative power of living in the present moment with the best-selling book by Eckhart Tolle. Find inspiration and guidance to help you overcome anxiety, stress, and negative thoughts. Start your journey today.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. There are these things that makes it official. Welcome to the big show

As always for 16 years, nearly 2,000 episodes We bring you all the latest, greatest All the most wonderful, beautiful people None of them are me of course These wonderful guests that come on the show and share their journeys Share all the things they do in life And they give you the learning They give you the learnedness

They give you the learnedness I They give you the learnedness. I don't even know if that's a thing. But that's what's so special about the Chris Voss. You can only get the learnedness on the Chris Voss show. You can't get it anywhere else. But they learnedness you to know more stuff and improve the quality of your

life. And then you're just more learnedness. In fact, we're going to sell a shirt that says I've got the learnedness inside me. I don't know if that's going to work out or we can get that past the censors anyway guys we have an amazing young man on the show today we're going to be talking to him but in the meantime guilt shame twists people's arms i mean just literally not real and get them to subscribe the show you can go to google reads.com fortress chris fuss linkedin.com fortress chris fuss voss chris voss won the tiktokity and hey there's a new thing we're doing if you ever want to buy me coffee because i know

everyone's been sitting around going god if i could just buy chris a cup of coffee you can go to buymeacoffee.com fortes chris voss and and i've got some here i got a half a cup so maybe you want to fill it anyway guys we have an amazing young first author on the show we're talking about his new book called the reaction to in action how organizations employees and customers lose when people fail to act jack jackson award-winning tech executive and leaders on the show with us today and he's going to be expanding and blowing our minds with all of his data. And if not, I just shamed him into a position where he's going to have to figure something out. Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack.

I almost said Janet Jackson. Jack, Jack. She was here in concert a couple of days ago. Jack Jackson is a 20 plus years executive for technology. He's an expert building high performance organizations. He's awarded the CRN, the Chanel chief award twice. I don't even wear Chanel. Jack has taken several companies through hyper growth to successful exit.

He's managed global international organizations at publicly traded companies. TechNet has recently awarded Jack the prestigious most influential leader in technology award in 2024. That's awesome. And he's got his new book out as well for pre-order. It's called The Reaction to Inaction, and it's going to be disruptive and groundbreaking book that is expected to make all the best sellers list and or else.

The first 500 orders will receive an autographed book of the copy copy of the book i'm being dyslexic here he holds a bachelor's degree from saint mary's college of california and god bless her and completing his post-graduate work at at harvard university in international business and is the senior vice president at global sales at eritum eritum eritum there you go welcome to the show jack jackson how are you i'm doing good chris man yeah it's channel not chanel but i love it oh was it you had me cracking up the the podcast has started amazingly man you have a big smile on my face so thank you for that that's what we do now we're gonna make you cry anyway give us your dot coms where can we find you on the interwebs yeah man go to the reaction to inaction book.com you can find everything about the book

obviously you can go follow me on linkedin at just jack jackson you'll find me there's about a billion of them but but i'm the one that looks like this wow there you go there you go give us a 30 000 overview i like i like how you titled this the reaction to inaction give us a 30,000 overview. I like how you titled this, The Reaction to Inaction. Give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside the book. Yeah. You know, guys, it's a framework. It's a framework. It's different. I call it the consultant killer. I call it the leadership book killer. I call it the business self-help book killer. It's different. I've been writing this book for about 20 years. I titled it The Reaction to Inaction about 20 years ago when I was a lonely, hyper sales engineer at a beginning company, starting a new career in tech.

And I just noticed some things happening in the organization. And I said to myself, man, this can't be how business is done in America. This is not how business innovation happens. So stifling controls, people being controlled, that type of thing. And so from there, I spent the next 20 years journaling literally in meetings, boardrooms, CEOs and founders, the whole deal, kind of journaling and taking notes of these same kind of reoccurring themes that would happen. And so I spent the next 20 years interviewing psychologists, researchers, behavioral specialists, CEOs, founders, you name it. Anybody would talk to me about organizational health, culture, culture and businesses. How do people find purpose? How do people find fulfillment? How do people find those things in their day-to-day career and find their purpose? And I wrote a book about it. I finally said, you know what? It's time. I'm an older guy now. It's time to write a book that really makes a difference.

There you go. And you know, I was, what was I listening to the other day where it was someone talking about, ah man, it was somebody talking about basically organizations and as leaders, you know, when you see problems, you need to fix them because if you don't fix them, they're going to make things worse and eventually make everything go off the rails. And so it was like a parable about a snake. And, oh, here, come back to me. So it was a parable about a snake. And in the south, where this gentleman came from, they have a rule about the snake. If you see a snake snake you kill the snake and i wish i could reference who i'm stealing this from but it was a tiktok that blasted by me but he he gave him a speech as company or something he said look

we live by the rule of you kill the snake so the rule is if you see a snake you kill the snake you don't ignore the snake because the snake will eventually either bite you or someone else yeah and you kill the snake and that way the snake's dead the second rule is you do not play with the snake because you don't know if it's dead or not yeah and so basically what the parable was was is if you're in a company and you see a problem you fix the problem or if you have a decision you need to make you make that decision because if you fuck around you're going to find out yeah you know what man you're absolutely right and if you think about it so the research that you find and you look at it today just look at

the news today chinese car manufacturers are on pace to outsell american cars for the first time in history and there's that that stifling of innovation, that stifling of thinking outside the box. I talk about this in the book where, like, how did we get here? We went through, and you're going to remember this, Chris, real well. In the 90s and the 2000s, like Rome, I used to make that joke all the time. It's like Rome. You go to dinner. It's like, give me two steaks, throw one in the garbage, right? Everybody's getting money. Everybody's getting investment. Everybody's burning through cash. We're buying scooters and ping pong tables and all this stuff. Cocaine. We had this big idea and then we flush all that money down the toilet up our nose and we're off to the races, right?

And that kept going and going. And so finally somebody said, with all this technology, with all this money being infused in there let's start tracking data so then 2000s roll around 2010s roll around and all of a sudden it's about data data data and that data has confined and constrained the american employee right the employee day-to-day employees so anytime he wants to make a decision anytime he wants it there he or she wants to think outside the box i've got to fill out a form a process talk to my my boss there's something there's a mechanism all throughout that controls that have to happen, right?

And people are overhiring and laying off, overhiring and laying off. And why? Because of the data, the data, they're just line items, they're the data. And there's a better way to do it, right? Organizations should be living, breathing, you know, fluid organizations, you know, entities that thrive, that everybody from the CEO down to the janitor can make decisions, can be entrepreneur, who can think outside the box, who can feel empowered, feel trusted. And all the psychologists, all the behavioral specialists, all the CEOs and founders

I talk to say the same thing. When you have employees that are empowered, they feel trusted, they feel like they can make their own decisions, they thrive. Innovation happens. New things happen. And so that's a lot of how we got here as an industry, how we got here in business in America, is those controls and data were kind of all ruled by that. And so I said to myself, I said, you know, the second part of this, Chris, was really funny. You'll relate to this too. It's all these stupid retreats, man. I mean, I go to retreats as an executive. I go these retreats he's off sides we go sit somewhere in park city and a retreat in a lodge somewhere we spend 50 grand talking to each other about how great we are trying to sound like the smartest guy in the room we go back and we see our organization

that we manage and we go we learned today how to have a better one-on-one or communicate better whatever the nonsense is right and then two later, it goes the wayside. You know, this book kills that, right? You hire a consultant, man, for a hundred grand. You hire a consultant. You come in and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Consultant says, here's how leadership works. Here's how communication works.

Here's how you get your organization aligned. And it stays in that C-suite. What happens? Two months later, it's gone again. Nobody's doing anything different. We just blew a hundred grand on that. You can't tell you how many times I've been given books from the leadership team. You got to read this book, Jack. It's the new book and you got to read it. It's going to teach you how to do whatever. It's the new book.

It's the new trending business book, man. And then fast forward, two weeks later and the book is sitting in my desk and my offers are in the garbage. Didn't read it. Company spent a thousand bucks on some books for the executive team to read. None of my employees know. Nobody understands what that book was about or what they're doing. So this book is really to do all of that,

address all of that. Nice. I love it. So tell us a little bit about your life. We'll circle back to the book, but people always like to know the author early on. Tell us about how you grew up, what motivated you. Yeah.

How'd you get down the road of some of the stuff we talked about in your bio? Yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate it. I had an interesting life, man. My dad, he had me when he was 50, and he's a country boy from Joplin, Missouri. Old school World War II pilot in Joplin, Missouri. He was busy, too. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he was. He was.

At 50. Yeah. At 50, he was getting busy. Yeah, he was. And I'm one of two of his kids. I've got an older brother. And so he met my mom. My mom's Peruvian. He met my mom. They got married 22 days later. They are best friends and they were married for 45, 46 years. My dad passed away a few years back. And so I'm lucky that way. And I grew up in the Bay Area in California and went off to friends and they were married for you know 45 46 years my dad passed away a few years back and so i'm lucky that way and grew up in the bay area in california and went off to college and in college funny story i i wrote some papers on how to how to break in department defense computers i've been coding since i was like 11 years old and got recruited by the department of defense as a special agent went through that went through that world as a special agent and 9-11 happened.

Got assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force and did some work on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and ended up leaving the agency. Got an award back there from my work with the Joint Terrorism Task Force and went into the private sector, man. And I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to go, and I talk about this in the book,

to go work from some pretty amazing seasoned executives, kind of at the height of that Roman empire of business where everybody just blowing through cash and really learned quickly how to scale businesses, how to build high performance teams. And I did it by trial by fire. I lived on a plane. I slept in airports. I went to every meeting. I was looking up to have executives early in my career, a gentleman by Don McMahon, a guy named Wayne Ford, really come in and say, we're going to teach you the ways, young Jedi. And trial by fire, your phone calls at two in the morning, tell me reports are wrong and yelling at you. But I learned, it was old school, but I learned how to really optimize and

really build out efficient organizations. But it was in those early days that I realized there's something wrong here, man. So I went off to go to a bunch of different startups and some bigger companies, Kodak and other big companies that just left in structure a couple, about seven months ago, eight months ago, publicly traded company, big LMS company, fantastic company, great company. And throughout these years, man,

just still taking those notes, taking those notes. I literally write down an action item for the business. And then I remember somebody complained or said something about something about my book. I could think about it. I could add that to the book. Went to my other little journal that I had and wrote down some notes. So I think I've got 13 or 17 handwritten journals about the book. And yeah, man, so companies to exit. And so here I am today. There you go you're on the chris voss show you've reached the top of your career yeah i think you said you got a presidential award in the background there if you're watching on youtube right yeah yeah that's

from the department of defense it says an appreciation of your significant contribution and the government's response to the attacks of september 11th yeah there you go thank you for your service we need more we've had a lot of guys on the show and and you know i i don't think there's appreciation enough of of you know we just had i think a few weeks ago our friend frank luguzzi who's a was the assistant director at the fbi for a while he's been on twice but you know we don't hear about a lot of the dark that goes on and the evil people that that a lot of the people in in the service deal with you know we don't hear a lot about a lot of stuff and it's probably better we don't because it's

some of it's really scary and there's a there's some dark evil people in this world that really have it out for us and they don't like us mainly because you know we have mcdonald's and they don't yeah there's something like that but the although we will feed at mcdonald's at guantanamo bay oh you'll die faster if you don't i don't know i'm gonna get sued now by mcdonald's anyway so yeah thank you for that so in the in the book what what's the on the premise you know you you you you set this forth as a framework for the organization of the future. How do you feel that what you put forth in the book is a different framework from the one that's currently in place? What are some tips of that?

Yeah, I see it all the time, and I've been on the receiving end of it. You know, companies come in and, you know, back to the book, back to the consultant, back to the retreat, back to these, you know, leadership consultants. They come into an organization and they really talk to the top, right? They talk to the top. And nothing really changes throughout the whole organization. what I've been thinking about for literally the last 10 or 15 years, I wrote down on a whiteboard a million different ways, a million different times about how do we build out a real true organizational framework that does a few things. Number one, it empowers the employees from the CEO to the janitor, right? Everybody feels empowered. Everybody feels trusted. Everybody understands that they have a purpose and they play a significant role in the organization. And then they're rewarded and they're confident enough to kind of think

outside the box to solve problems. So how do you do that? Do you do that in a retreat? No. Do you hire a consultant to do that? No. Do you hand about your books to the C-suite and say, read these, this is what we're doing today and let's just go do a global call for it? No, it doesn't happen that way. It has to touch personally everybody inside that organization. So what I developed was these spheres of influence, starting with the CEO, obviously having the biggest one. And there are these rules inside of there, right? What kind of leeway, what kind of rope does that in room, does that is fenced around the CEO? Obviously it's big. Then you have your senior leadership team. Then you have your

vice presidents and your directors. Then you your senior leadership team. Then you have your vice presidents and you have your directors. Then you have your frontline manager. Then you have individual contributors. And throughout that, in this framework, explains how do you empower each one of those levels all the way down to the most basic individual contributor, right, and give them an understanding,

a framework where they can say, I can think outside the box. I can cut that check. I can give that discount. I can order that cleaner for the floor if I need to. I don't have to go through all these processes. There's processes in place to really build that fence around me. I was speaking to the founder, Gold Star Gamers, and her and I were having a conversation. I'm going to quote her in the book. I hope she doesn't mind me talking about this, but she's super brilliant. And she's a, you know, a psychologist and we're talking about children in a schoolyard. And she said, you know, if you give, research has shown, if you give children a fence in a schoolyard, a big one,

they'll go all the way out to the fence. They feel safe. They feel good. They feel confident. But when you take that fence away, they stay very close to that schoolyard. So how I've designed this framework and it's got a provisional patent on it already is really building out those fences for the entire organization. So everybody will have that. The book comes with templates

on how to have effective one-on-ones within that framework. The book comes with templates on how to design your organization and build those rules within your framework. So then you say, Jack, what happens if these guys do something stupid? They mess up, they do something stupid, and you're going to get sued. I built in another formula that took me a long time to figure out. It was really called the one-minute, the one-hour, and the one-day decision-making process.

And so these individual contributors all the way the CEO, can take that template, that formula and say, I can think dynamically, I'm trusted, I'm confident in what I'm doing, and I'm allowed to think outside the box. Kind of like the guy who made Flamin' Hot Cheetos. The janitor came up with Flamin' Hot Cheetos, something like that. Yeah, there you go. That aerated Taco Bell and the next morning he woke up with Flamin' Hot Cheetos. I love the Flamin' Hot Cheetos though morning, he woke up with flaming hot Cheetos. I'm not sure what that means. I love the flaming hot Cheetos, though. I love the flaming hot Cheetos.

Flaming hot chips around here somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. You really set it up to where people can change their whole organization. They can utilize a framework that you put in there. What are some other standout things that maybe we haven't talked about? Yeah, Chris. I mean, you know, there's some things in here that really make the framework important.

If you look at the history of business nowadays, it's the innovation, the creativity, the product development is really stifling. Everybody's worried about AI. Everybody has anxiety around ai everybody wants to understand where their career is going to go after this big wave of ai tech and this big wave and and you know wave of artificial intelligence and i think you know i really think that this is the answer to that this is the closest way to build an ai human organization out there and i think that once you kind of read the book understand how we got there understand what research psychology the economists all these experts tell us and the data shows us around how people feel fulfilled, how people thrive, how people thrive on creativity, how people feel safe and work harder and build high performance teams. It's really about that empowerment, that fulfillment, that purpose and trust.

And this book does that. So when you can have that kind of framework in an organization, automatically, automatically, it feeds out all the creativity, the innovation, the high performance. When you give a sales rep the ability to go out there and do some deals and look out and explore some contracts, explore something different outside the box within, you know, again, within that fencing, they feel like they're the CEO of their business. They feel like they're the entrepreneur. Like this is something that they're a part of that they own. But when you stifle it, the opposite is true. When you say, Hey, you can't go do a discount. You can't make a sales call. You specifically stay in this box. Now you feel like, man, I'm a number. I'm a cog in a wheel. Is this really my life? Is this really my life that I got to go every day, punch a clock and

get the hell out of here and make as much money for the boss as possible. And that's what you find out. And in this book, I talk a lot about that. I quote a lot of research around purpose and fulfillment and how that directly correlates with high performance. Companies who are over achieving, companies who are beating the street, who are are beating out expectation a lot of it has to do with their company culture and what they've given their empowered their employees to do on their own there you go company culture is everything and i like how you you make people feel like they're a part of the group because i think a lot of that servant leadership is moving towards that today where they you know people have to feel like they're a part of something much bigger themselves

and there's some meaning there. They're just, as you said, punching in and punching out. We've got Matthew Lindsay. Thanks for this one. He really loves it. They're on the LinkedIn live show. And then Paula says, above and beyond, in your way. So I'm not sure where that was.

I think that was a bit ago on the show. So thanks for that, Paula. There's something I'm seeing on the page here on your website about the power of now. Is there a tie-in with Eckhart Tolle's book? Yeah, no, you know, I think, yeah, I mean, a little bit, right? I think the power is now. I think it's time for American, you know, innovation. And by the way, this applies to not just, you know, this applies to educators.

This applies to business. This applies to SEAL teams. This applies to the military. It's time for us to do this it's time we have a wave of ai we've got multiple trains going a thousand miles an hour over the cliff you know into the into the darkness with ai and every country every adversary every competitor is doing everything they can to get that edge and i think the way you get that edge is really not by just shoving more engineers at a problem. I think it's about creating the atmosphere, creativity, innovation, trust, and fulfillment. So the time is now.

You look at, like I said, I mean, I quoted that car research that just happened. China is taking over the industry that America was proud of, the industry that America founded. And China is now outselling American cars, at least in the midsize right now. And it's just going to keep going. And Elon Musk talked about it. And so now it's time for us to spur innovation. Let's get back to our roots. Let's get back to sitting there and saying, we can come up with something crazy and amazing from the janitor to the CEO. Let's come up with something crazy. And this framework gives you that. So you're not sitting around going,

oh my God, I gave this discount. I'm not getting it fired. No, there's framework around that. There's a system. There's a decision-making process that you and your manager have agreed on. You've read the book. He's read the book.

You've looked at the templates. You understand the blueprint. You understand the framework. And everybody is moving. And just think of that you know that living breathing organization you know just entrepreneurial innovative both product sales marketing operations finance everybody's kind of moving you know their arms and legs around that organization to do something better and amazing there you go it's it's it's interesting how this all pans out and the power

of now accurate toll was such a great book yeah saved my life at one point in time where i was just really my anxiety my adhd was off the charts and i was such a great book. Saved my life at one point in time where I was just really, my anxiety, my ADHD was off the charts and I was in some depression over the loss of my dog. And getting back to the power of now, I was having trouble being present like immensely. And my brain was just kicking at me. And so being present was like everything. And it was so important that I crossed that threshold. And so his book was so great there. It sounds like you've got a great plan put together for people to utilize. I like the premise of the, it's the anti-coach book, the anti-consultant book, and the anti, I bought this leadership book and now my team has to read it. You know what I'm talking about, Chris. I mean,

every business guy in the world goes, God, my boss just gave me this book. And I'll say something, you know, I have friends that are consultants. I have friends, and they're all going to hate me for this. But the reality of it is you can pick up every great book, every bestseller, every great book out there today, and they answer like a part of it. They go, Atomic Habits, you can do this. Okay, I read the book, but none of the other 4,000 people in my organization have. Okay, Fail Fast. Okay, I read the book, but there are 3,000.

You can do that, and everybody has a slice of that framework. people in my organization have. Okay, fail fast. Okay, I read the book, but there are 3,000. You can do that. And everybody has a slice of that framework, but nobody has brought it all together. And nobody has explained yet how to fulfill that throughout the entire organization. How do we do that from the board down? How do we do that? And so that's really what this book is. It's saying, here's a framework and a template. It's not going to tell you how to be the best leader in the world. It's not going to tell you how to make people, I don't know, perform better with a book or a manual. This is a framework that everybody in the organization reads. They all swim the same way. And it's really unifying all the best practices, all the best behaviors, all the best business books out there and building it all into a framework based on research and experts.

There you go. I'm excited to read it and take advantage of it. Any final thoughts as we go out? Yeah. One first, thank you. Thank you, Chris, for having the show. I'm a fan. I love watching your show. So I appreciate being on here. You know, I'm excited. I'm excited. I would ask everybody shamelessly, you know, go, go buy the, go pre-order the book. It's going to be fantastic. I'm going to do a limited production in the first round and we've already got a ton of pre-orders already go go order the book you're going to love it it will not disappoint i'll tell you that it will be something special and i think it'll be something you'll refer back to in your organizations and in your teams right even even in your small departments and teams it'll be something that will be very very useful for you for for a long time to come so thank thank you, Chris, for having me on the show. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. And thanks for coming. Give us the dot coms as we go out. Yeah. The reaction to inactionbook.com. You can go there. You can pick up a copy. I'm going to send out hard copies, really nice and something special in them, and an autographed copy to everybody. And then I'm going to be touring around. My publishers are touring around here pretty soon, do some book signings and some pre-order stuff. And we'll be doing a lot of fun things. It's going to get busy really quick.

But please go out, buy the book, enjoy it. And if you guys have any questions, you can message me on that site. All right. Thanks, Chris, for everything. As we round up the show, thanks again to Matthew. He says, janitors always have great ideas about what they could use to make the job easier or more efficient. You know, it's the people at the front who usually see some of the most inequities of the corporation, and they usually know how to fix it.

And, you know, the CEOs, you know, sit up in the ivory tower of the boardroom. A lot of good ones I see, they go walk the front line every day. I was watching the CEO of HP, and one of the things he does is he spends part of his day meeting with the front line and out on the front line shaking hands and talk to people, asking what they're seeing and helping get through the fog of war. You know, Chris, I'll end it with this. I'm working, I'm managing a global team at a company called Airtel and it's an amazing company. It's a supply chain software company. It's innovative. It's fantastic. It's in hyper growth mode.

And our leadership team, which I'm part of, they're in the field all the time. It's unbelievable how many one-on-ones we miss just because we want to talk to customers. And then we go back and we're relentless and we're obsessed with two things, right? The customer experience and the employee experience. And I think that that's a big part of this framework, right? And I experience and the employee experience. And I think that that's a big part of this framework, right? And I think those go hand in hand. And again, check out Airtem.com. It's an amazing company. It's in hyper growth mode. You guys will love that company as well. But that's the kind of framework we're building there. That's the kind of framework

we're building there. It's exciting. Awesome. A lot of changes going on with management for the future and stuff. So thank you very much for coming on we really appreciate it definitely thank you my friend thank you and order the book folks you can order you can pre-order it on his website it's called the reaction to inaction how organizations employees and customers lose when people fail to act kill the snake people i gotta go look up who said that had that parable anyway guys thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.