The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Safe Place by Brandon M. Rogers

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

The Safe Place by Brandon M. Rogers 2rconsultinggroup.com https://www.amazon.com/Safe-Place-Brandon-M-Rogers-ebook/dp/B0G62W2LYN The Safe Place is a gripping journey of redemption and healing, where faith and trauma intertwine to shape a young man’s life. Tristan’s search for belonging and understanding leads him through a maze of relationships, faith struggles, and the painful remnants of his past. As he battles shame and detachment, his path toward forgiveness-both from others and himself-becomes the most difficult yet transformative journey of all. This novel invites readers into an emotional, spiritual exploration of grace, love, and the power of overcoming internal battles. With a powerful mix of lyrical storytelling and raw, heartfelt moments, The Safe Place will resonate with anyone seeking redemption and the courage to heal. About the author Brandon M. Rogers is the founder of 2R Consulting Group and the author of The Safe Place, an emotionally immersive and spiritually grounded novel shaped by lived experience rather than abstraction. His writing emerges from the belief that the most transformative stories are the ones we’re often afraid to tell — the quiet places of shame, grief, doubt, and longing that many carry but few feel permitted to voice. With clarity, depth, and compassion, Brandon explores the intersection of faith, trauma, and healing, offering readers a space where pain is neither minimized nor romanticized — only understood. His work is especially written for those who feel unseen, spiritually exhausted, or uncertain that restoration is still possible. Rather than offering easy answers, he invites honest presence, reflection, and hope that feels earned. Brandon lives in the United States and continues to write for those who are hurting, searching, or quietly wondering if they are still worthy of love. He is currently working on the sequel to The Safe Place, further expanding the story’s reach into the places most people struggle to name aloud.

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Brandon Rogers is a founder and fractional CFO at a company called Two R Consulting Group. He has two decades of financial expertise with an emphasis on financial turnarounds, mergers, and acquisitions, forecasting, and strategic planning, and trend analysis. He holds an undergraduate dual degree in finance and accounting with an MBA in finance. Welcome to show, Brandon. How are you? Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, Chris. Yeah, doing great. Doing great. Thank you. And thanks for coming. Give us your dot-coms. Where can people find out more about you on the interwebs? Yeah, absolutely. To our consulting route.com. and Brandon Rogers author.com.

A little bit of both sides of the brain and both of those places. So give us a 30,000 overview on what's inside your book, The Safe Place. Yeah, it's a story, a novel about a young man, Tristan, that essentially is a raw communication on what life is, the difficulties, the issues of temptation and success, and ultimately his downfall. And it walks through a myriad of child, childhood traumas and the path to redemption. And I think the great thing about this book is that it put a

punctuation mark on no one feeling too sorry for themselves, but not glorifying or romanticizing any one specific journey. Everybody's story's difference. And for Tristan, he just talks a lot about how he moves up and down and all the wake, all the people in the wake of him. So it's been a, it's a jarring story. I've got a lot of good reviews so far and excited to keep that story going. And it came out January 6, 2026, for those of you searching it on Amazon. Now, is this, what was the motivation behind writing this book? What was the aha moment or the epiphany where you're like, hey, I need to write a book about this sort of topic? Yeah, so it is very strongly influenced by real life.

And so it was an easy, somewhat cathartic process for me to write it. Interestingly enough, I spent the first eight years of the novel trying to get past the fourth chapter. And then my daughter, Bailey, spent some time poking me for a few months. And finally, one afternoon on a Friday, I came back. She said, Daddy, you've got to finish this book. Sunday night it was done. Ten chapters, wrote another 26,000 words that weekend. And then just a couple months later, I had a publisher and then wrote my second novel

over the course of a family vacation and another 200 pages. So it just seems to be falling out. Very great for the opportunity in the medium. And the inspiration for Tristan and so many of the characters is obviously as most people drawn from your life. I imagine, do you feel like this is coming easy to you to where you see maybe a career in this? Yeah, so it's interesting. I actually see every time I sit down and write it, I imagine, so I've been going to the movie theater once a week for the last eight years. And it has been a passion, movies are a passion, storytelling, such a passion, which is one of the reasons why I enjoy the work.

I do and the reason I've built the firm we have. But in this process of being in a place of healing and, you know, this book, I found that the storytelling piece is a creative way, and there are probably some teachers back in college in high school that would have said this is, this is definitely the path for him, that I think I could keep going. You know, the movies, I can see this being adapted to a film. It's exciting, just the idea of telling a story, but reaching an audience that all can resonate with the message. Yeah. And you mentioned that You have the second book. Is the second book tied to the first?

It is. It is. It is a standalone in that my editor was very, very strong in saying, this book cannot be clickbait. It cannot leave it. And so we reworked how I decided to approach the end. But the books are connected. The stories themselves are standalone. So it's very much getting the idea of the character and the way that I put the stories together.

And I have a variant. People ask a little about it. you know, my approach is extremely poetic, the writing, but thinking like Christopher Nolan might write a movie. So there's three different timeframes in the writing, and that's one of the reasons why I keep thinking of movies as I write the books. It's so easy to put down, but in any given moment, the characters of protagonists are traversing, you know, three different plot lines and three different time times. Yeah. It's so complex to build those plot lines. Lise is for most people. Do you find it easy to do? Yeah, it's very easy for me.

I think all the reasons why grade school was very hard, right? So we all have journeys in our education, and we all have people that tell us you're not quite in the mold. And I struggled with this for the better part of two decades. And yes, now I think just like many people that have certain gifts, I think for me this is a gift. And I'm grateful for it, and I'm trying to wield it with discernment and, you know, and stewardship. I didn't have any trouble in school. I just let the bullies beat up on me and locked me in lockers. Sure.

There's bullies for me were constantly poking fun, and I can appreciate that, Chris, just kind of, and there's a little bit of, is this my lot? But I think after college, I realize, you know, everybody's weird, everybody's got a thing. How much do we want to hide behind other stuff? And that changed it for me, Chris. That writing this book and then realizing, I published a book that was kind of cool, and I thought this is going to be this big, you know, huge climax of my life. And then I finished it. like, did it matter? Did anybody find impact? And I have had a couple text messages from people I've never met telling me that reading a book that did one sitting, you know, quite literally shifted

the trajectory. I mean, I had one that I read and I touched to my wife. And I'm like, can you believe this? And these are the things that are inspiring me to go more. So I think about those bullies that poked on the way that I think or perhaps you thought. And I think now maybe they're, you know, maybe they're seeing there was a purpose at all. Yeah. I mean, you know, we're all a collection of our stories and journeys and our cathartic moments we've overcome in life.

And without them, we wouldn't be anything. If I didn't have all my crazy wild stories of life that I survived. It's true. Sometimes I sit around and pinch myself. I'm still, I guess I made it. Yeah, now I hear you. Now, I hear you. Now, this deals with several

different, you know, some challenging topics, you know, trauma and maze of relationships. face struggles, painful remnants of the past. Was there some of this in you? Was some of this kind of a pseudo memoir? Yes. So it very much was a memoir. And I think the nicety about being able to say that now, and I always struggled with what I would say as I had this question come, is that those that have read it that know my story, maybe didn't know all of it. And for those that have read it and say, oh, this must be embellished. It doesn't really matter how they take it

because the story itself. But yes, I don't think as an author you can write 47,000 words over the course of six days and not have some sense of drawing it from a place that was real. And that was that moved you. So I think when I sat down, I was with my wife in North Carolina last July on my daughters.

And I said, all right, you know, I'll be on the beach for two hours a day. It's so hard to sit in that sun. And can I go home and, you know, back to the condo and just write,

sure. And then on day five, I'm like, I think the book's done. And then she read it. night she says oh my gosh you wrote another book it was one of those things though that she said I think you're becoming an author now because the first book everybody just sort of word vomits and it's the second book that I think really starts to push towards your

craft and I start to look at other people and think wow these authors are really good and understanding emotional arcs and you know all the pieces that meet authors really all good authors yeah it's it's definitely a good thing to it sometimes telling stories in a format that's not nonfiction, kind of helps create that levity, I think, or illusion, where it's not, you know, just, hey, here's my story and here's what happened to me. You know, there's people can develop the characters. You have maybe a little bit more freedom to play with the characters, maybe the plots, maybe. Absolutely. And it's interesting you say that. I've been noticing things like when you watch a movie inspired by true events or, you know, based on a real story.

and you can sense when authors or filmmakers take liberties there. I've always been interested. But the movies that end with the black and whites of pictures of the real, whether it's a survivor or an athlete or whatever, always draws me in. And I'm trying to think psychologically what it is about that. And I think when you base a novel, which is why I didn't make this in one more,

it's why I didn't say this is my story. Because people can connect to the characters when they know that there's some element of creativity that may or may not have been completely accurate or not accurate at all. It allows people to dream a bit. And in that dreaming, they can relate, and that relation allows the book to be adopted more.

It was very intentional that was novel. And for me, telling the story, and continuing to push these stories of Tristan and other characters in the book, I'm finding or attaching to other people in ways they have nothing to do with the specific trauma. events, but still connected, nonetheless. And let's talk about, we discussed prior to the show, about leadership and in how you talk

about this in the book and some of the other different tips in the book that talk about what you do at your work, what you do there at the company with two-R consulting group. Talk to us about that. Sure. Yeah, so I built this company about four years ago, almost next month. And the whole idea, after two decades in corporate America, running finance for large companies, figuring out how can I do this more efficiently, but just to be nicer, not to do the things, put the tie on and put the shoes on, and how can I be me in my fullest element?

And then that came way to, you know, how do you leave? And incidentally, our leadership is not too different from what we learn in third grade, but most of us just stop acquiescing to the things that are natural, and we conform to the things that are told to us. So I said, all right, I'm going to build this firm that is predicated. on leadership that comes from a place that's natural. And this book was very much a path toward being honest about who that person was, who this child was, and who he became, who Tristan became, and then looking at the people that I'm with now and thinking the way that they look at the

world matters to how I'm able to do this business. So every day I think, am I being honest with myself? Am I thinking about the things that they don't share with me, but that are very much driving their mood or their, you know, their perspective. And that has shifted dramatically my ability to be a leader that connects and that influences. And so I think that I gave us talk today to a, you know, 100 plus college students at a local university or business school. And the whole contrast, which I don't like, was, you know, meet Brandon Rogers and his, you know, how he became successful. And I said, whoa, let's just back up here. You know, this isn't a Facebook. We're you of who I am and this is not. Let me just tell you. And I literally stacked for 10 minutes every single

terrible thing that had happened from zero to 15 to 25 that was failure and shame and regret. And I said, this is how you find contentment. And this is what you really have to do to get to the places that maybe look picturesque to the person outside. And for me, that is leadership, authenticity, but to an extreme. There's a book I read. a while ago, so extreme ownership. And we don't own things extremely. I don't think as much as or as well as we could. So I decided, I mean, we could, I could very much use my expertise in finance and strategy to influence people at a very, very primitive level. And leadership has just spun out and I get requests now. Would you mentor me? And, you know, and it's been a blessing

to be able to feel like it's, it's a real thing. It's making real impact. That's a beautiful thing about books, man. You know, you sometimes don't know who you're touch who's going to read your book. Sometimes you may never meet the person who's life you change, but every now and then you meet with somebody and it changes your thing. So tell us about what you guys do there at your company and how you do it. And, you know, what sort of clients you qualify that might be listening in the audience, et cetera, et cetera. Sure, yeah. So to our consulting group was born out of a desire to provide the basics for a large company. And we do, we handle small to medium-sized companies, five million to 200 million. And they,

We're doing everything from building out there accounting and finance structure to brokering, renegotiating contracts, or negotiating new contracts, to providing scenario-based analysis and building models that are very dynamic. We have coders and we have financial analysts and we have CPAs. We have the whole breadth of the finance accounting arm and we're industry agnostic. So everything we do is applicable to every business. And right now, we have 12 different partners and I've got 14 employees. And we work in a metal fabrication industry. And we work in the medical industry and the dental industry.

We work in the nonprofit sector. I mean, we are in everything. And part of what makes us great is that that allows us selfishly to learn more from different, you know, areas and different people that otherwise we may not have a chance to do. It really is, do you want a stronger turnaround or better growth or more strategic deployment of your, resource cash or otherwise we're in there and we've been growing so well because this very much is a relationship you know based and it all is is rooted in how we lead and how we connect that's all leadership when it comes down to it i guess i suppose true now what sort of if people want to work with you do they need to have a five to 10 million income base how does that work oh no no no so

the firms it's really a where if they've got a company or if they're even doing some personal development. So I do executive coaching, business coaching, but even if they're just, they have a small business and most small businesses as they grow, they're always hitting some sort of ceiling. Am I in the right place? Are we, you know, using our resources well? How do I grow and how do I know when to hire the next person? Everything structurally that you would consider from inception until you hit that 200th employee. Those are the things we work with. And we have, you know, testimonials and you know for four years i made two phone calls to start this business and not since have i done anything other than receive referral and interestingly enough and i'm very grateful for it

interestingly enough i found one of my my first partner was a student at a local university he came to intern for me and that was that was 13 you know 13 employees ago everyone that we connect with now has been a reference from me to myself or for him from him so we don't advertise we don't solicit. We don't on LinkedIn, say we're hiring. You have to be vetted. And the first two criteria, and everybody, if you ever asked, will say, what two things matter the most to Brandon?

They're going to say to you, you've got to show up and work hard, and you've got to be kind. You cannot break either of those two things. I can teach a lot of things to a lot of people, but those two things are a fabric of character. And I've realized in my 44 years of life, if they're not there already, I'm not going to get them there. That's true.

Now, you mean morally, ethically, developed as the arms of human beings? Is that what you mean? As far as the kind? Employees. Yeah, yeah. This is, I mean, you know, we sit down with you and you have a terrible day and, you know, your businesses and shambles and, you know, or you've got people leaving and you may look like a monster.

Our job is to understand and look past all of that and to be kind no matter what. So it is, it is an expectation that, you know, even our days are not. never too tough to be able to be there for our, for our, you know, our partners. Now, there was one thing I wanted to fall back to. I had to cue it up in my brain and lost track of it. Now, you mentioned that in the book, there were some healing for traumas and different things that are talked about, I think, in the book, or you referenced it maybe you had done some of that. Was this a book that you did maybe after you healed from some of the childhood wounds? Did you go to therapy or did you do that?

Sure, yeah. I think anybody who's honest with themselves about writing any memoir or themselves in general would tell you that the book always starts with some sort of healing from a childhood trauma. But as we dive deeply to who we are, that feeling is a process that never stops. Just doesn't. Every time I think I've caught some sort of vibe or wave to arrive somewhere, I realize I'm just a little bit further from the place I left. That's it. And I think you can probably appreciate it.

Plus, I have two daughters. And they're wonderful. My wife, they're wonderful. But goodness, if I'm not on skates all day long, my head is on a swivel. So I'm never arriving. But yes, this book was born out of some very specific traumatic events from which I've found healing through counseling.

And I still see a spiritual director three times a week since I built his business. I'm going to see him next week for three days as a retreat, just the two of us in North Carolina. I mean, I'm very into mental health. but this this healing process as we dig deep it never ends i mean we're always bent and and and influenced by the things we see even today yeah i think if you have if you have childhood trauma or i ain't really any big t trauma in your life it tends to influence of you even after you heal and get stuff it that imprint is still there so it can be you know it can be a challenge to deal with

right it can be you know in it it it it it can haunt you basically It's helpful too, Chris. Even I see some of the, you know, some of my colleagues, you know, it doesn't matter. My age, older, where there may be habits that you just can't see, you know, in yourself. But the Y usually stems from some need or longing that just wasn't met, a deficit that still sits there. Yes, I mean, if we're honest, like I said, with ourselves, you can, you can almost study it anywhere. Yeah. You know, and it's great that you, did you feel like you could have written this book before?

Or you got healed? No. No. I think God gave me a lot of perspective to get the first book done. And the second book felt like it was just easy to put down. But the third book I said, all right, I'm going to sit down and try to do it. And it's not ready yet. And so part of me is, you know, maybe I help someone write their book until my story bakes a little bit more. But I've allowed this process to be very free-flowing and not to force it.

Yeah, I mean, I couldn't have done it if I wasn't right here right now. Yeah. And so that's just, I think this is a great testament to getting healed if you have trauma. You know, people always ask me, what would you tell yourself, you know, what would you tell yourself if you could go back to the future, your teenage self? You know, people ask that on Facebook and stuff. And they're always surprised on my answer because everyone's, go buy Bitcoin or go to this or whatever. And there's always, go to trauma. go to therapy for your trauma.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, as you said that, I don't really ask myself that question often, but the immediate response was I would just be nicer to myself. Yeah. That too. You know, just give yourself a break.

That too. I mean, it was, it was, you know, you're hard on yourself and the world's hard on you too as young man, especially, because you, you're pretty much worthless. You have to make something of yourself. We're not born into our values, men. And, you know, not only do you have to overcome the trauma, but we, you know, We have to build ourselves into something that contributes to society that can build a family and everything else. And most men don't reach the pinnacle of that until maybe they're 40s and 50s.

It takes us a lifetime to make something ourselves. And, you know, we spend 10, 20 years kind of wandering in the wilderness trying to figure us out and ourselves out and life out. And what am I supposed to build? You know, when I tell my younger folks in the Gen Z community, hey, here's what you know, need to do. They're just like, what? I got to do that too. You know, it's interesting. After, sadly, we don't recognize a lot of our, the impacts of a lot of our unresolved trauma until we get older. And that's kind of because you can kind of look backward and see this, you know, this dead bodies you've been dragging through life and this weight. And you can see the wreckage

that you've left behind in your wake and go, uh, it could be me. It's true. It's funny. You say weight. And then a trigger word. I can't tell you how much weight I've unburdened myself. Oh, yeah. And I've let go over the last four years, five years, just a pound at a time. But you start to realize, how did all that get into that backpack? You know, how did I carry it for so long? And then you feel lighter and lighter and peaceful and peaceful.

And even, you know, the season I'm just in, there was a tough season. It was hard. But every time I just ground it out and I knew that the levity, would come, it does. And then you remind yourself that it's just a season. It's just a moment. Yeah. We all go through your dark times. It's how we meet those moments, and then how we make sure we resolve them so they don't haunt us, so they don't bother us, so they don't become those things. And it's great that you did that. And of course, throw the story, they incorporate some your leadership. Let's get a plug in for your podcast, too. You have a podcast that work. Tell us

about that. Yeah, I know. It's my partner, Dean Carver and myself have a podcast called Redefining ROI. And, you know, it's all about how people are your purpose and how to use your people and how to connect with your people in a way that allows you to see what return on investment really means. It's driving into that fluidity between HR and every other vertical. And that goes back to the concepts of leadership. And so we explore this last episode, which hasn't aired yet. It will air in the next step. We just filmed it. It's all about intelligence. And we spent, we had a whole, hey, just talk about intelligence. We always have, you know, a few scripts that my marketing team and and, and Alicia, who they're wonderful, but they're used to me just riffing and just said, listen, I cannot have a script.

I can't even read the beginning parts of the podcast that say, stick to this liner. I can't do that. Dean's got to do that because I just riff. But I ended up, you'll see on social media, I ended up just talking with my back on the ground and I held the mic. And I said, I got to move around. I can't stay seated. And they're like, all right, just do you. And man, it was like a whole different level and I said, I'm not looking at any questions. Let's just talk. Yeah. For 45 minutes, it was just, you know, one of those cool unfiltered experiences, you know,

like a riff session or a jam session. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the way you got to be. Energy really sells in the podcast. And, you know, I have people that will send in questions, and usually the questions are number one in their voice. That's why we usually ask for third party questions. And number two, a lot of the questions are just kind of, you know, set up lame softballs.

And, you know, so I can, I usually spin their questions into my questions that I want to ask. And what I think the audience wants to hear more, because sometimes it can feel really staccato reading off the thing. You know, I improv what they call the rambo, the ramble the intro to the show. And I used to do a little bit more with it now. We just kind of punt it a little bit. But you do 1,800, 2,800 shows, 17 years. You, you start to lose it. Clearly, I've lost it beyond that.

The note you have what to talk about the second book that you have that's a follow-out to this. So do we want to get into that maybe? Yeah, no. You know, I think anyone that has this child in them, you know, this self, you know, we talk about looking at your younger self. This story is all about this six-year-old boy. And he just sort of comes in and out of the Tristan's life. And it ends up being fun to, you know, read. And I've had people just say, I read it in two hours and, you know, when's the next one?

So the next one follows a similar sort of format. And it's measured, which is why I mentioned, you know, Christopher Nolan being a bit of an inspiration on how I write. People are like, that's movies. Yeah, but he traverses time and he jumps in and out of different. He bends and shifts how we understand and how we think in a linear fashion, more a linearly. And so the second book takes Tristan and it actually removes him back 50 years.

and it walks through what Tristan may have experienced, touching some of the lives that impacted him in a traumatic way from their vantage point. So now he's a six-year-old sort of walking in and out of not his parents' lives, but his parents' parents' lives to see where the generational influence happens and to understand more about what they felt as the little boy from their parents. And I think it's a cool way to tell a story, but it also gives a different vantage point. you know, been fun to write. What I'm going to ask you about on the show that we should probably ask you about

to enlighten people on some of the things you do. Yeah, just in general, you know, I think I would tell you, music is a big thing for me. Exercise is a big thing for me, but movies. I mean, I spend a lot of my day dreaming. You know, my younger daughter, Henley, is a spitting image. And her mind is the way mine is. And we'll, we've just been binging stranger things, which is, I know it puts me way, way. Like, where have you been?

bro. But, you know, my daughter's just now 12. She's 11, just getting ready to turn 12. And, you know, we wanted to make sure we cared about what she sees. And finally, she's out of stage. Or, Daddy, you know, can we watch this movie? And we'll watch it together. And so my, some of the things I love that I think are sitting down and just being in the same room with her experiencing things like that.

You know, it's just cool to see her mind work and what the question she has and how smart she is. I mean, I've watched her become smarter than me over the last four weeks, almost, you know, exclusively and I think to myself that was the hope you know this is just cool it's cool to watch you know yeah it's you know it's it's so great when you know you see them discover stuff for the first time you know we're kind of jaded as as our old yourselves where we're just like uh yeah whatever it's more of that business it's true yeah yeah it feel better to watch her sort of experience this and then you can kind of help to hedge some of the things like oh that's not going to be

useful for you. Keep thinking down this way. And yeah, so it's been good. And inspiring that creativity, too. You know, a lot of kids, they just get told no all day long. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That girl's got great. I mean, yeah, she's in middle school. They're both in middle school. And the different kinds of conversations we have now are, it's making for my wife who's

a therapist and has her own practice. You know, she has definitely struggled in different ways. You know, for me, I welcome it. But that was a lot of my childhood. So as we go out, give people fun a pitch out to pick up your book, how they can find out more about doing business with you for consulting or working with your consulting company, etc, etc. Yeah, you know, the book, the safe place. I love for people to check it out. It's on Amazon. It's on, you know, it's on Barnes & Noble.com.

A lot of reviews on Goodreads, a lot of reviews on Amazon. I think it's wonderful because it's been, they've been very, very strong. But yeah, visit, you know, Brandon Rogers author.com, visit to our consulting group. com, you know, my email, my phone number. It's very intentionally out there. I want to be accessible. I want for people to reach out and say, this mattered or, hey, man, I didn't agree with this, or maybe think, you know, whatever, I want to spark a conversation. I'm not interested about being right or I want it to, I don't want it to be, man, that was just so awesome. I just want to connect. And I think, you know, if it's helpful professionally, if it's helpful personally or, you know,

spiritually, emotionally, you know, that's part of what I think drives me to do these things. And, you know, any opportunity to touch, you know, and shape of life is awesome. And what a great way to give back to, Brandon. I mean, that's really what you're doing. You're sharing your story. You're spreading your inspiration, your enlightenment. And hopefully we can encourage more people to get therapy and help for trauma and different things.

If you have it, folks, get it as soon as you possibly can. Because you don't, you can't see outside of your rose-covered glasses. outside of your shape trauma sometimes well most the time and and the sooner you can get help the better your life is going to be and putting it off is a dumb thing to do and please don't do stupid shit sound bass and crystals and all that kind of crap that's just my personal opinion go to freaking professional therapy with a licensed professional quit mucking around on tic-tok anyway that's just my that's my grind yep love that love that You know, I see too much of this foo-foo magic crap, you know, and a lot of it's just to avoid self-accountability, like astrology and stuff.

Oh, yeah. Go see a professional therapist. Make sure they have a license and make sure you spend time and be honest with them. Don't PR spin them with your narcissistic bullshit because I have plenty of that. Anyway, thank you very much, Brandon for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Pleasure. Thanks so much, Chris.

Word up his book, wherever fine books are sold. It's called The Safe Place by Brandon M. Rogers. And Brandon, did I get your dot-coms as you were rounding out your final pitch? Yes, sir. To our consulting group.com and Brandon Rogers Author.com. Thanks to Brandon for coming on the show. Thanks, Ronis for tuning in. Remember, could Jules and refer your family, friends, and relatives?

Just bug them until they finally subscribe to the show. They did that iTunes link. You can find it. It's, wait, what is it? It's HCTP. It's Chrisvoss. Show. Chrisfoss.

Show. It's that easy to send people there. It's all one word. Anyway, thanks once for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe and I'll see you next. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning.

Consuming too much of the Chris Walshow podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter, younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. All right, Brandon, great show. Wonderful job.