The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Space for Leadership: Lessons for who you can be, regardless of who you were by Jeff Giagnocavo

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

The Space for Leadership: Lessons for who you can be, regardless of who you were by Jeff Giagnocavo https://amzn.to/3sc5EpZ Thejeffg.com In a world where leadership is often celebrated, The Space for Leadership takes an illuminating journey into the often-overlooked realm of a leader's past. This groundbreaking book delves into the profound impact of one's history on their leadership style and how embracing these experiences can catalyze personal and professional growth. In The Space for Leadership, we unravel the stories of leaders who have faced adversity, trauma, and life-altering challenges. Some allowed their past to dictate their paths, while others chose to suppress their history, only to be haunted by it. By vividly contrasting these two paths, this book presents a powerful premise: that the key to becoming an extraordinary leader lies in harnessing the potential of one's own lived experiences, no matter how daunting they may be. With deep insight and a compassionate approach, this book underscores how traumatic stress, when channeled effectively, can be transformed into a wellspring of leadership acumen. If you’re a leader carrying a tremendous burden looking to release those chains and heal yourself and those around you, this is a must read. Through these pages, you'll discover how remarkable leaders leverage their personal hardships to fuel their journeys toward becoming beacons of inspiration. Their ability to convert trauma into a catalyst for growth becomes a compelling focal point for not only their self-improvement but also for nurturing a cadre of resilient and empowered individuals who rally around them. By embracing the lessons hidden within their scars, these leaders create a profound space for others to gather and thrive. Their authenticity and vulnerability illuminate a path to effective leadership that heals not only those they guide but also themselves. The Space for Leadership reveals the secrets of building bridges from pain to strength, and from adversity to empowerment. In this transformative narrative, you'll uncover: ✓ Strategies for embracing past traumas to fuel growth and resilience. ✓ Insights into the psychology of leadership, with a focus on authenticity and empathy. ✓ Techniques for creating a safe and nurturing space that fosters collaboration and growth. ✓ Real-life stories of leaders who turned their wounds into powerful tools for healing. The Space for Leadership is not just a book; it's a guide for leaders, both emerging and established, to harness the transformative power of their own life stories. Whether you're a CEO, a community organizer, or someone on a personal journey of growth, this book will inspire you to not only rise above your past but also use it as a stepping stone to become an unwavering force of positive change. If you're ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and leadership that shines light into the darkest corners of your history, then The Space for Leadership is your guiding star. Get ready to rewrite your leadership narrative and create a space where you, and those around you, can truly flourish.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

The Great Voss Show. Welcome to the big show, my family and friends, Because it's never official until the ballet lady sings Or as some people say the fat lady sings Am I allowed to say that anymore? I don't know but I'm fat so I think I can throw shit that way Welcome to the big show my family and friends As always for 15 years we've been bringing you the billionaires The CEOs, the brilliant minds, the Pulitzer Prize winners

All of the astronauts, not all the astronauts We just had one on the show And all of the brilliant minds is what I intend to say. They share their stories of life, their journeys, their pathways, and they help share their stories with you so that you can make your life better. And so the beautiful part is, is when the world is burning and there's ugly news out there and darkness and everything else, the Chris Foss show can be the light in the world. It's the lantern. I'll just steal right off the cover of my book for a plug. It's the beacon of hope, if you will. And we're going to be talking about beacons of leadership today with another gentleman's book as well. So as you guys all know, leadership is one of my favorite

little subjects, little subjects. What do you mean little? I don't know. It's part of my whole life. I've been running companies since I was damn 18. Anyway, guys, as always, share the light in the world because that's what we do. We all need to be lifters. There's two things you do in the hardest of times. You either find a lifter or you be a lifter. And that's what we decided to do in 2020. So help lift others. So that's the guilt and shaming part of what we do to set up the plugs uh go for the show to your friends at goodreads.com for chess christmas see what we do here it's all just a spin to get to those i love the guilt and shaming thing i like guilt and shaming guilt and shame that's out of love it's a love thing positively done we're kind of like the moms of guilt and

shaming uh podcast plugs uh go to linkedin.com for chest chris fos subscribe to the 130 000 group over there in the big linkedin newsletter go to youtube.com for chest chris fos and chris fos one on the tickety-tockety as well as you can tell there's a guest wait there's a guest chris yeah there's always a guest people that's why we have people on you've been putting out with me for 15 years we're both sick of me like we've just had enough of me uh but we have an amazing gentleman on the show he's the author of the newest book that just came out august 24th 2023 the space for leadership lessons for who you can be regardless of who you were you people know who you are jeff genicavo uh runs uh comes on the show with us did i get that right

jeff you're very close you got like an 8.5 out of 10 give me the 10 one more time genna go yep genna go there we go awesome so welcome the show uh give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs yeah i mean we're going to cover a lot of my journey. So I created a site, thejeffg.com. It's going to be one of those choose-your-own-adventure type experiences because you're going to connect with some things I say and not all things I say.

And when you get to there, thejeffg.com, you'll be able to connect with what interests you the most. There you go. You're a consultant and business owner who understands most of what we lead with, navigates our day to a struggle that hides in plain sight, and all too often those who hide their struggles even deeper. Jeff was one of those leaders who was going through that.

He overcoming the traumas of violent sexual abuse as a child. And in the last five years, Jeff has undertaken a tremendous amount of work and understanding to address these traumas and turn them into a transformative experience for himself and those around him. Today, he seeks to create an impact for others with his transformative book, specifically for organizations and leaders that are dealing with teams who are in need of healing and the conflicts that arise when the needs of work, home, and personal greatness come crashing into each other. In his latest book, The Space for Leadership, he digs deep in his personal life story to translate his trauma turned into transformation for others to model and lead with an eye on creating space for all those around him to find new levels of greatness, healing, and success. Welcome to the show again, Jeff.

That's an amazing story you have there that we can build on. So give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside of the space for leadership. You know, I want to start off by saying you shared the context of my book. It's about my past, about my history as a child, dealing with sexual abuse from a friend of our, you know, a family friend, friend of the family that my family was connected to and the community we lived in. The 30,000 foot view is I want to be the example for people that need to heal, that got tremendous hurt, this tremendous hole in their chest. And I think one of, well, I don't think, I know one of my gifts is to stand in the gap, stand in the gap in a place of need for others,

lift others up. As you said, as we got into the show, right? Like do some things that help others out in this world. And for me, that gift is standing in the gap. And there's a lot of men that have dealt with that kind of abuse, this kind, uh, there's a lot of men that have dealt with that kind of abuse, this kind of abuse. There's a lot of women more so. Um, I don't expect everybody to be able to be in a moment like I am with you right now. And I appreciate you giving me this opportunity and I don't want people to weigh, uh, whatever your, whatever your past is and is. I want to be that example and show you you are able to move past it on your own terms. There we go.

This is the thing we always talk about on the Chris Voss Show. It's about sharing our stories, sharing our journeys, sharing, you know, we all have different traumas that we go through in life or challenges that we go through in life.

No one goes through life that isn't struck by something. And so by sharing how we go through in life. No one goes through life that isn't struck by something. And so by sharing how we go through that journey, how we survived it, how we overcame it, how we got to the other side are so important because they're, you know, we always say on the show, I think it's basically a quote of mine, basically stories are the owner's manual to life. And that's how we learn from each other because the postal service hasn't delivered my manual yet.

Have you gotten your manual yet? Absolutely not. And that's why we have to write books to make those manuals. Yeah. Just like yours. So tell us a little bit more about your journey. How did you start your companies?

And what do you do at your companies? I venture thejeffg.com. Tell us about some of the work that you do there. Do you do at your companies i i venture the jeff g dot com tell us about some of the work that you do there do you do coaching as well and it looks like you do some speaking yeah yeah i mean i've i've you know i i guess for me as a as an entrepreneur i'm a consultant in one word because the businesses that i have uh i'm blessed to have built great teams and I don't need to be in the business each day. I get to work on the businesses. And so those businesses are, I have a really great retail mattress store in Lancaster, Pennsylvania called Gardner's Mattress & More. We're a 14-time winner. We're real proud of the work we're doing there because in the modern time we're in now,

you can use this device in your pocket, order something up that I sell in that business, and it arrives at your front door. And there's a lot of slick marketing behind it. But that business is all about the customer experience. If you don't sleep well, you don't live well, that's for sure. Well, 100%. 100%. Sleep is life. It is. It is. There are so many things that sleep can do, that great sleep can do for us. And unfortunately, our society doesn't put a lot of value on it. Think of all the health gurus that are out there, all the fitness gurus that are out there. Who are the

true sleep gurus that have tens of millions of followers on social media? They don't exist. I think I should be a sleep guru because I really love it, but I'm not coaching anybody on it, but I probably could. People would call me up and be like, hey, I need to sleep more. I'm like, well, do it, damn it. No, leave me alone. I got to go back to sleep.

Yep, yep. Yeah, so I mean to go back to sleep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I mean, like we, you know, we believe in it. You asked about authorship, like space for leaderships, like my first book, book, like a book you can go buy on Amazon as a consumer of books and a reader of books, but like sleep better as a book. This is a great little tip for people in businesses. We can talk about my story, but this little tactical chunk, having a book, a little short book as a lead generation tool, if you took my business away, if it burned down, if Lancaster, Pennsylvania ceased to exist

and I had to move to Lancaster, California, I'd take this book with me and start anew. That and my customer list. I'd have two things. Having those tools are so important because once you have those tools, it's the old teach a man to fish sort of analogy. Let's talk about your story if you want to delve into that a little bit deeper.

Tell us about your journey and what got you here. Yeah. So, you know, business owner, typical kid, right? Like had a grass cutting business and sold that to buy my first car. Oh, wow. Worked in diners. Yeah. Yeah.

It was pretty neat. We lived in in a development i kind of sold it off in three phases and made somebody yeah made somebody on the back end kept 10 i didn't i didn't ever have that big picture when i was mowing lawns i was just like yeah five bucks and i'll see you next week yeah well then and then the parents the parents messed it was short-lived the parents messed it up because like why are you paying this guy this money you're the one doing the work well i'm just smarter you know that's what i should have done yeah right you you're like delegate this crap yeah so i knew delegation worked early on and you know then i got into working at restaurants because i actually enjoyed that almost went to career center for cooking but ended up doing cars got in construction blew my body blew my body out, realized I could sell things, got into the corporate world, selling things,

got chewed up there, but realized I could sell things. And then I got into the home furnishings industry, representing factories all across the nation. There's not many mattress factories out there that I don't know, people that I don't know. And I built a 22- 22 year career in that industry and um proud of the work that I've done there and in 2012 I just wanted to get off the road I missed all of my oldest boys firsts yeah uh being out of alignment and uh um 2012 bought one of my customers to be a home and we've turned gardeners. What was gardeners bedrooms,

waterbeds and more into gardeners mattress and more 14 time favorite choice mattress store in the area. A couple thousand handwritten reviews, hundreds and hundreds of online reviews. And I love the business. I love the work we do there. Cause it's all about five-star experience. That is awesome.

Do you still sew waterbeds? No. No. Damn. No. I used to love waterbeds when I was in my 20s, man. It was so great. But I was known to pop a few, I think, or at least one.

I did that once. One time I was filling the mattress for a new move that we made, and I forgot I was filling the mattress because I was a dumb young kid. And then I drove to like at least 10 miles away to our old place to pick up some more stuff. I was there, and it occurred to me that I had left the mattress running, and we were on the third floor. And I was like, oh, my my god we're never gonna pause it back uh so i raced back to the place and i came in and it was a giant balloon hadn't started leaking yet but it was probably god knows how close to popping it was highly pressurized it was highly pressurized man i got that thing unhooked and started draining it and checking around and man

that that just would have been so bad because there was like three floors uh two floors below us um and i'm pretty sure you know i don't know they evict you for something like that probably i don't know they would send me a bill i'm sure but uh mattresses are so important i mean uh so you basically do a business lying on your back it's one of those kind of businesses huh oh i've got all the good puns man i you know when i go when i go to like new events and i meet new people you know it's like i'm jeff i do business in your bedroom uh one of the oldest uh careers in the in the that's right yeah there you go that's right there you go i get to say we don't want we don't one night stand our customers five-star experience is important, right?

You're in the business of giving people tools to be in the business in their home or something. I don't know. That's right. There you go. So the title of your book is called The Space for Leadership. What propagates that? What does the space for leadership mean? Yeah. And thank you for asking that.

You know, it's my job as host, i'm kind of right right right no you can stall with that if you want some people no no no no no stalling but no uh so this my book is really it's all about my story right and and i said i have a great team and i didn't just snap my fingers and make that team. A lot of hard lessons along the way, hard fought lessons along the way, painful lessons because I was a terrible leader. Like I said, I had this big wound, this gaping, yeah, gaping hole in my chest from my dealings from what happened as a child. Yeah. And, you know, it just was, everything was an internal fight. Certain aspects of my day still are today because this is not, you know, you don't just get to pack that away and forget about it. Right?

Like one of the things I talk about in the book is it's one of the chapters. It's called The Way of the Suitcase. And whatever is in your heart, whatever is wounded in there. Uh, I would challenge people to think about it like this suitcase, right? Some days that's a nice little clutch, right? A little clutch purse, easy to carry around. Maybe it's a little bigger fanny pack. Maybe it's over your shoulder. Maybe it's one of those handy dandy suitcases on four wheels that spins around like crazy. Other days, it's a mean old nasty stinky rucksack that explodes out. Wow. Sounds like my water bed.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, great visual, right? Like some days, what's deep inside just explodes out. Talk about why. Well, it depends on if it's been Taco Bell night the night before or not on Fridays. So there's that. Yeah, there's that

that happens, yes. Those are the worst explosions. So how are you reacting? Give us a visualization with it. Some people, they react very poorly to being gaslit. They don't like to be lied, trifled with, or screwed with.

They usually react very, they overreact. Some people lash out at people. How were you performing that made you a bad leader? So we get a visual on what that looks like. Yeah. So great segue into another one of the chapters called new cuts do not equal old scars oh i like that yeah so the visual is labor day monday we're done closing the store i believe i want to say this was 2015 or 16 i fly out of the parking lot at 65 miles an hour, Tokyo drift style.

Wow. And the conflict was I was, I was as a leader, I was putting upon the team at the time we were in expansion mode. I was looking to groom future managers, future leaders. Those, those team members, as amazing as they are and were, weren't those people. It's not what they wanted. I wanted to push it on them. And so without getting into all the details, because it's really immaterial, there was just conflict between my expectation, my business partner, what we had agreed on that I was kind of forcing on everybody,

and then the team. And it just blew up. And I stormed out after a great day. I ruined the day and fly out of the parking lot. I could have killed myself. I could have hurt, killed somebody else. And it was that, it was that new cut ripping open that old scar, that old feeling of your words don't meet your actions. And for me, that's a big trigger point. I have to watch it. I really, really do.

Your words don't meet your actions. That's important. So let me ask you this with your childhood trauma. When did you come out about it? When did you finally start talking to people about it because a lot of people and especially men hold it down inside forever because for men it's probably even more shameful than i i shouldn't i shouldn't do an equate it's not a it's not a competition um i think i think for men it's it's very shameful and i shouldn't do an equation between the two. It's, it's very shameful for both sexes, but, uh, um, but I, I think, I think men logically try and pack it away. I think is what I'm trying to say. We try and give it a logic and reason spin and we don't, and, and, you know, we bury

the emotional damage, uh, deep down. So I think that's what I'm trying to say. So when did you finally come out and talk about it? Yeah, it was my late teens. Um, you know, and this, and this was, was more on top of more, I went to, um, close family and, and basically was rebuffed saying, well, that can't happen because what you described can't happen at that young of an age. That's wild. Yeah. And, you know, listen, I don't know. You don't deal with it. Yeah.

I think the thing as leaders we got to understand is, just like you said, stories. How'd you say that? Stories are life's manual. Stories are the owner's manual life. There we go. There you go. Same thing. We don't get a toolkit either. Right? You don go. Same thing. We don't get a toolkit either, right? You don't get the manual and you don't get the toolkit.

You got to build it as you go. And, you know, dealing with this kind of trauma that I've dealt with, that I shared, that's some like heavy, high test, high skill tools. It ain't just a hammer and a phillips screwdriver and so at the time very hurtful at the time very damaging at the time reframed negatively more stuff so did you did you talk to your family about it at that time when it happened or did you hold it in oh i held it in. Yeah, I held it in. So no one knew until when? No. Like six, 17, 17. Okay. So 17, and it happened to you at what time?

Seven to 12, ages seven to 12. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, I was born in Canada. I moved to the States when I was 11 or 10, 10 turning 11. And this person decided to make two family vacations and visit. And the abuse continued from 500 miles away. Not even 500 miles could separate it.

Yeah. And one of the, one of the problems with, you know, parents and people that oversee that are, you know, their job is kind of supposed to be to protect you. So they have a hard time squaring this in their head. And it's a signal that they failed. And so they're having a hard time and probably denial as well, which doesn't help, you know, the victim's case. Because, you know, they're like, hey, this really happened to me. And they're just like, no, it didn't. And you're just like, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I was very much there. Yeah. Yeah. I was very much there. Uh,

you know, I just realized this, um, about a month ago, I've never as an adult enjoyed birthdays. Really? Uh, yeah, because even there was even abuse at a birthday at the restaurant uh hand under the table uh stuff and uh and so i only realized that about a month ago like oh yeah that happened you know and as i've worked through all of this stuff, there's more details fill in the spaces, right? I continue to do the work on this. I am not here standing as somebody fully restored, fully embodied, fully healed. I'm standing as somebody that can be that example. That's who I am. At least, I mean, at least you've been able to open up about it. I remember watching Leaving Neverland.

I think it was with the two young boys who came out as molested by Michael Jackson. And they did a show after with Oprah. And Oprah kind of had this live audience that was there. And there was an NFL player who stood up in the audience and he'd been molested by a, uh, the neighborhood cop. And, you know, back in those days, this was, you know, he's very old gentleman. So he was back in, uh, you know, this is back in the days where, you know, they're, they're those old beat cops. Um, and, uh, you know, and it was a figure that you're supposed to trust, of course. And so that made it even more complicated. But for decades, he held it in.

And he indulged in probably all sorts of different ways to medicate it without going and seeing a therapist. And he finally wrote a book, and he came out about it and said, you know, this happened to me. And I think men think it takes away from their manliness it takes away from the masculinity i think that's one thing that complicates us sure um and in our version of it and so he's he made a comment that was really interesting he says he says the poison inside you uh you have to get it out you have to talk about it you have to open up to it it's like a poison from like a wound or like a snake bite where you have to bleed it out you have to get out of your system and until you do it will just fester inside of you and it just toxifies

everything and it's basically poison and so just sometimes admitting that you know there was something happened and talking about it and opening up about it and sharing it is half the battle i remember a friend opened up to me one time uh it kind of caught us all by surprise we were having a little party and he he brought up people must as a child we first thought he was kidding because we're all drunk and having a good time and a party. So we usually held at events. But he wasn't. And then it finally occurred to us that he was serious. But it was the hardest thing for him to come out and talk about it and admit to it.

And then, of course, that took him on his healing journey. So in your book, you've kind of tried to tell that story, I guess, and how you've tried to reconcile that. Is that a good framing? Yeah, 100%. I think for me, that calling to stand in the gap exists through leadership. It exists through realizing as a leader that people around me, I have a tremendous ability to impact their life in a positive way. I've seen what it's like in a negative way. I'm not that man anymore.

I'm not perfect, but every day is intentional to be a better person and create that space for people. So another analogy that I use is, you know, a lot of leaders feel carrying a sword is a good thing. You know, being on offense, right? Well, a sword cuts people down. I challenge people, pick up that figurative shield.

If you think about like any epic medieval hero movie, right? Almost always the pivotal point is the shield above the head or here, sword clangs in, space is created. It turns, the village is saved. He gets the gold, he gets the girl, whatever, right? The space is created.

Gets the revenue. Yeah. Gets the revenue in our eye. And so for me, it's like drop that sword or at least put it by your side. Take the shield, put it above your head, get space around you and bring people in. Be that leader. Invite people in to that space. And, you know, we get a lot from our folks.

We get a third of their day during our work week together. We've become a society that is so attached to our phones that work now gets taken home with us, which I don't think is right. It's not, you know, again, look back to that story of 65 miles an hour on Labor Day. Those people were great people, but they weren't leader people. They wanted to be in their spot yeah i was trying i was trying to mold something that just wasn't there and that's why that conflict arose but um we need to we need to be leaders that understand we got humans around us if you just want robots guess what you're in a fantastic time for that because they're coming right they are coming are coming. Now, what is this eight-hour thing you're talking about? We chain people to the wall here, and they never leave.

What's this eight-hour thing? Including me. I'm chained to this desk. I can't get up right now. I'm winking right now. SOS. Yeah. So there you go.

The subtitle of the book, Lessons for Who You Can Be Regardless of Who You Were. Frame us out a little bit about that because you talk about building bridges and going from pain to strength and from adversity to empowerment. Tell us about making that bridge or that gap or standing in the gap, as you like to call it. Yeah. You know, it really comes down to, uh, you know, I saw myself as somebody not worthy. Uh, I saw myself as someone that's always going to have people letting them down. You know, there, there was a point, Chris, uh, my family, my abusers family was gathered at, as my memory best serves me, it was like a Christmas time thing. And we're all in the living room hanging out. And this guy is just kind of nudging his daughter, bothering her.

And his wife says, is he molesting you? I mean, does that just come right out while everyone's around? Exactly. Or is this privately? No, it's out loud. Oh, he says that about the daughter. Sorry. The wife says that to her daughter.

Serious. Like, just everyone's sitting around like Thanksgiving dinner sort of thing. Yeah, 100%. Just hanging around in the living room. And at that moment in time, there was such a tremendous weight lifted off of me because i'm like this is it he's found out this is it some somebody please yes this is happening nothing was said it just went on that car ride lead balloon or it balloon? It just came off as a... It was said and it floated into the ether.

I wonder if... Women have a way of... They know things and they have a way of jabbing at something. Do you think she was probably in the know? Yes. 100%. Wow. 100%.

Do you think she had any suspicion about you? I can't see how she wouldn't wow have you ever talked to these people either these people about and confronted them interesting question uh so we moved you know we moved away uh there were a couple other instances shortly after we moved here to the States, but then it, you know, they fizzled out and we're no longer in our lives at all. Um, uh, interestingly enough, and I don't know, well,

Hmm. I'm getting goosebumps right now. Cause I was about to say, I don't know why she showed up, but the, my abuser's wife just popped out of seemingly nowhere at my grandmother's funeral back in, I guess that was April of this year. Yes. Did she see you? Um, I don't know. I don't know. Like I was,

she, she said hello to my mom and I was seated a couple, you know, it was a funeral in the back, you know, the, the, the gathering and meal after the services was in the basement of the church. And I was kind of seated against the wall.

Then my mom was a couple of seats down. And then this lady was on the other side of my mom. And, you know, so I, I just said said i got some goosebumps i was going to express i don't know why no i know why because this was a test this was a test to see how i'd respond and i let it roll off my back because to respond in any other way would be just an emotional drain that I didn't need.

I'm over it. At this point, my book is already in draft status at that point. Did you name names in the book by chance? I don't. I'm kind of curious book by chance i don't curious yeah i don't you know he he's he's long since passed away i know that um he paid he he did uh he did go to prison so he he was convicted of it then yeah but there you know there a tragic, there's a tragic path in that. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, another young boy committed suicide. Oh, Jesus.

Yeah. And, and, you know, I say my, I say my, so she knew then the mom, the wife knew she wouldn't have to know when he went to prison.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause there was a son, they had an adopted son. All the children were actually adopted. This all plays out like a typical pedophile yeah i've seen this in utah i've seen this in utah where they adopt children yeah yeah like the basement had nintendo which in the early mid 80s or i'm sorry mid late 80s

was like the thing computers and so like even today today was today, today was a day. Today was a day where sitting at my computer desk was just difficult. Because it was all in front of the screen. Have you seen, have you, have you sought therapy about this? Have you gone to a therapist? I have,

but I never shared it with a therapist. Okay. I highly recommend therapy for you yeah almost everybody need that goes through this needs to go to therapy um i should know uh the uh uh you know this is one of those things that trauma and and i don't think i don't think there's a few other people that can understand it. I mean, you can write about your book, and it's great that you own it and you share it because those people out there, like that young person who committed suicide and other people who are struggling with this, you're probably going to save some lives. And they're going to see how you went through it and stuff. But it's so important, especially if it's, you know, as you said at the beginning of the show, it's still there with you and you're still wrestling with it a little bit maybe. Is that the right perception? Sure.

Yeah, sure. And, you know, I kind of view that as, I don't know if it's fair to say a healthy acceptance of it because i i just acknowledge it like i i used to push through and then i would push through that negative feeling that negative interaction and then it would just be more be miserable at the end of the day which carries over into the next day and the next day and then but now i just don't have to do that now i could just say you know what for some reason deep in the psyche deep deep in the subconscious, it's popped up. We're just not going to go flick that nerve. Yeah.

Just what it is. Yeah. I mean, that's the one thing about being a man. We can use that logic and reason to manage. We can use stoicism and stuff to manage our emotions, and we don't have to react to them because we don't have to live in them. But it's still you want the you want you want my version of the manly way to talk about emotions and feelings sure yeah i'd love to hear organize and stack give me give me an expansion you gotta do well i mean so rather than yeah prioritize sort of think about where you think about your feelings

yeah think about your feelings organize them out put them in a box stack it away it's kind of like i said the suitcase analogy right that's like you know being a man and we can think of things in boxes we can pick one up and and look at it and play with it and we can put it back down and we can do this where you know we don't have to think about everything all at once but there's there's a reason why we're built that way yeah it's a it's a uh right it's a it's a feature not a bug for both sexes um so it's interesting and how you go through this but this is important that you talk about you share your message because you know i i've told the story a million times in the Chris Foss show, so people don't ride with me on this one, but I'll make it quick. You know, years ago, I lost my dog into a seizure one night,

and it was over in a half an hour. And so we went from being a perfect little family that I thought would live forever and, you know, I don't have any kids. I can't afford all the divorces. And so I'm still saving up for my first divorce. I'm, I'm at $5 million, but I think I need another double that. Um, and then I'm going to get married and divorced really quick so I can catch up to everybody. I need like about three divorces and I'll just do it in a week in Vegas, but, uh, still saving up for that. Um, and, uh, uh, and so I, I, it was, it was, And so it hit me like a ton of bricks.

It hit me harder. It was a punch in the gut. So I put down half a bottle of vodka and bled out everything I was feeling onto a Facebook post. And I was fairly private at that time. I was a social media rock star and all this Forbes stuff andbes stuff and all this crap and you know being having all these followers on on twitter and social media and uh i i thought oh man i don't want to talk about this and so i kept drinking i think i was drinking to make sure i wake up the next morning and i sat there for half an hour about pushing that button and i'm like this is way too personal this is way too much i'm sharing i don't want to do this no one no one cares no one gives a shit it's just me being selfish and

bleeding out and talking about my thing so somewhere after uh a vial of a liter of vodka but i don't think i did a full liter but i was close um and uh i just didn't give a shit anymore and i think i kind of felt like it was a suicide note at that point and uh i'm just like fuck it i'm gonna send it and hopefully i just won't wake up tomorrow uh which is weird because i had another dog that needed me in their life and so i crashed and went to bed and um it really changed my outlook on telling stories and sharing our stories and being honest and open and authentic. And I was shocked at the people who it touched, it moved. Sharing my story, my pain, my struggle, like you have in your book, made it so other people could talk about their pain and struggle of loss.

And so I had these people writing me and they're like, yeah, I, I never realized that I didn't get closure with my dad or my dogs. And, and I read your post and, and, uh, it helped open me up. I cried all day long. Um, and, and we've actually saved a lot of dogs lives too, as well from what we learned from some of their journeys with their dogs. So sharing our stories, it helps people. I mean, there's been

two people in in my social media feed that wrote to me and said you saved my life today i was going to kill myself because uh whatever sort of mess i was in and whatever sort of inspiration you put out in the ether and it was it wasn't like we were like hey we should put out some stuff today to save people's lives we were just putting out positive things on social media. We touched somebody. And so you just never know. And a lot of people, a lot of times you're never going to know. I've had people come up to me years later and go,

hey, remember that post you made years ago? Yeah, that changed my day and my life. And I couldn't really talk to you about it then, but thank you. And so that's what you're going to do with your book and sharing your story. And the reason I bring that up is because all of us need to address our traumas and reconcile them. You know, reconciling is so important, especially, I think, for women because they're so based on the emotional damage of it. As men, we can pack it away and box it away. But you need to see a psychiatrist.

Not you. I'm just saying everyone who has trauma. You need to see a psychiatrist, not you. I'm just saying everyone who has trauma. You need to see a psychiatrist, especially sexual trauma. You need to work through it with a psychiatrist, talk openly with them about it. One of the challenges you have is like what you had when you were 17 is your family's not built to handle it. I mean, you have to be honest with them, but they're not built to handle it. They don't know what to do. It's a failure on their part. They see it as, you know, they want to be in denial about it.

And a psychotherapist can help you work through it because you've got to, you've got to unbundle so much stuff. And the damage is pretty extensive through all of your life. It weaves through everything, especially from a man's point of view and his masculinity and being a provider or protector. Um, it, it usually trauma puts us in an emotional state rather than our masculine state. It puts us more in a feminine state. And so, um, we find that we react more to, uh, gaslighting and we don't react well. Um, um you know there's a lot of toxicity that can go on to how we how we react to other people or deal with other things but i'm glad you found a way to to you know go from those pain to strengths and building adversity to empowerment because that's the journey of life and what we go through uh what are some other lessons we haven't touched on that are

in your book or what you want to lead into well you you shared the word reconcile and again i i got goosebumps from it um and this this i'm going to preface this statement because i've also come to accept and understand that just because i'm here sharing my story that might put pressure on more pressure on somebody having a similar journey because they're just not that person. You said, we're not measuring things here. It's not a contest. I again want to say that. Yeah, it's not a competition.

Yeah, if you've got this hole in your chest, it's not any smaller because you were a straight A student and that one time got a B and your parents really came down on you and it just like messed with your head. I'm not here to say that's any worse, better or anything. I'm here to say it's what it is and you have it and you can work forward from it. That's all. So on the topic. That's the big message. You can survive. It gets better. I mean, you know, like I keep coming back and thinking about that gentleman who, you know, your victimizer, you know, the gentleman killed himself. You know, this is the point is getting people to survive. There is a way to get from that adversity to empowerment. Yeah. And so on that note, you shared that word reconciliation and Sean's suicide that happened at 15 for him. And so for me, and this is where I was saying, this may be hard for people to hear and it's hard to understand, but I'm not a church

goer, but I have a lot of faith. And I do believe one of my coaches said, well, God will do no harm. And that's a really hard statement to reconcile when you look at a kid with cancer. A kid, you know, local to me, a kid somehow got a hold of a handgun. And I'm a hunter. I'm a gun owner. But got a hold of a handgun in a camp trailer camping on the weekend and subsequently died, picked it up and shot themselves. So that's terrible. And when you hear somebody say, God will do no harm, how do you possibly reconcile that? Well, I'll give it through this lens. Mm-hmm. I believe as somebody with the gift to stand

in the gap and be the example i believe that this evil was directed to me because i could carry it i wouldn't be another life that ended far far too soon i wouldn't be the person to carry that evil forward. And that's what I believe. And that's where my strength comes from. And again, for somebody with an exact same journey, that may be very hard to hear. I am not going to push it upon you. I'm just going to share that that is my belief. But when you talk about reconciliation, I have faith that what you shared, because it's already happened,

when you're vulnerable, like your post, when your dog passed away, and I'm sorry you lost a dog. It's just the worst when it happens. It is, yeah. Because I've lost some, and I have the most heartbreaking example was when we fostered one. If we have time, I can share it. Please do.

I get it. Okay, well, I'll do that next. But I kind of lost my train of thought there. But my belief is that I'm the person that can stand in this gap and discuss this and bring it forward. Because people will, that's where it was, people will connect like they did with you, with your dog. And it's already happened. It's already helped people.

They've already messaged me privately. I've been at events where I talk about this and they come up to me at the side and we share that bond. And I'm sorry, I always say the side and we share that bond. And I'm sorry. I always say, I am sorry we share that bond because that's the only thing that I could apologize at that moment for. I can't apologize for what happened because I wasn't the person who did it. Yeah.

But I can be empathetic and apologetic that we share that bond. And that's why, I mean, this is why I feel it's so important. And I think in the lens of leadership why it dovetails into leadership is because where else are your humans going where they can connect with people so deeply for so much time and i get we got businesses i get you probably signed up to make money you bought a business to turn a profit what there's a profit in this right right i just was doing them all for charity since 18 right 27 companies yeah just charity i mean that can all exist and the human element can exist too like i refuse to believe that a leader doesn't have 15 minutes to a half hour a week

to connect on a human level with people. And then it just like, that's really, I think what you've talked about and written in, but your book boils down, bringing things down to that human level that we're all human beings, that we all have traumas, that we all have challenges. I mean,

some people maybe don't have quite traumas, but they have challenges. I think whether you believe in that higher power that you referenced, I'm an atheist so i might find that the original premise is faulty on its on its front so but you it's important that people believe what they want to believe to get through this life and i believe you know whatever somebody else wants to believe is fine um you know everyone's got a log they need to hold on to through this crazy thing they call life and what happens between

uh birth and death but um you know that that being said i'm stalling because i lost my thought in the segue uh is uh you know you've got a you've got a you i am not going to find my way back to it so i'm just gonna i'm just gonna punt back to you on that. But I think people know wherever I was going, just finish it for me in your head. Yeah. That's my new podcast. Just finish my segues in your head. Love it.

We're going to pause, give some space. Let you've all finished Chris's thought. Just got a moment of silence. Chris's fucking brain damage. But I think we were talking about that human look, we were talking about that human connection and I said it earlier in the show, like you're in a great point. We're at a great point in time. If what you want is your humans to be robots, you're going to get them. There's already businesses that have laid off humans for robots. Yeah, I think I remember where I was at. Here we go.

And so that's one of the points of being in leadership and servant leadership is recognizing they're all human and how can we connect on a human level to achieve our goals. You know, this is what we look for in teams. This is what we look for in building organizations and employees and everything else is building the teams that can take on the challenges of the world. You know, the little armies, if you will. I always like to think of ourselves as a tribe where we go kill the woolly mammoth in a caveman style. But the human aspect of it

and being able to inspire and motivate people and touch people at their deepest levels of humanity to where they get fired up and they go, let's go do it. Let's go kick ass. Let's go take on the world. Let's go achieve something and build something. And so I think that human level and being able to get down to that nitty gritty is everything.

There you go. Yeah. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. We'll just cut out the middle part where I get lost on the edit. It's kind of a fun little journey, actually. I liked it. That's right.

It was, it was. Some things you gotta, some things you gotta marinate in people and you gotta go through the journey with me on. That's right. You get deep inside the mind. No, we're just wandering. Remember, it's not the destination. It's the journey.

That's right. That's right. It is. And I think some of my proudest moments as a business owner are helping people that are no longer with us get higher in life than they could with us. They needed to grow further than our walls would allow. And so we helped them grow to that point. And then we, they moved along. One of my, one of the, one of the people involved in that 65 mile an hour,

leaving the store, pissed off story, Pete Ruggieri, great individual passed away. When did Pete pass away? Man, this year has flown by it was earlier this year and um uh complications related to cancer and um you know we allowed pete pete was like just the ultimate make you laugh and take your money salesman. Like he was so quick witted. He did some comedy. So if you love like some darker humor, some fun humor that pushes the boundaries,

here's a great story. So Pete had a Facebook page called people of Lancaster. I think it's still up. He created this story about thomas the train tom like the kids storybook tv show thomas the train character because we have strasburg railroad historic railroad in our county well they bring thomas the train out they put like a cover over a big locomotive and it's thomas the train and all the kids go crazy i took my sons there they loved it well he made it he made it and it was a satire site he makes a post that thomas the train is canceled because thomas had to enter rehab well we all know thomas had a drinking problem i mean it's been more this thing

been obvious for some time this thing caught fire oh really oh it went viral the the thomas the train people sent a cease and desist letter to him oh my gosh wow right it's so dirty so this was pete i share that because pete had just this incredible organic like where did you possibly think of that humor and but he was extremely charitable and like it's cool again with that you would be so into dogs because pete was into dogs dobermans were his thing especially rescues and he he created the santa stumble santa stumble was a bar crawl christmas time santa suits get dollar store gifts pass them out to strangers on the street like there's nothing like an amish country, Lancaster County, PA being drunk, wearing a Santa hat, handing out a pregnancy test to somebody you don't even know. Right.

Like that was what he inspired. And this is Fridays around my house. Um, this is like the scene from bad Santa, the movie, one of my favorite movies of all time. It was, but we, and I share all this because we allowed that to foster on our time i didn't crack down on them like pete come on like you gotta watch my sales training videos again you gotta you gotta go push the vacuum again you gotta mail out five more thank you cards we did all that we got our time but we allowed him to have have that time, and we deposited back into the community. And Santa Stumble, all those proceeds, which is north of 300 grand over the years, as I understand it, went to our local canine and horse-mounted police division that ran all on donation.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. And so that's the human element I'm talking about as a leader. And guess where people came to get tickets for Santa Stumble when it became something major. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We were the official mattress sponsor of Santa Stumble. Did you ever get a C and D from the old Thomas train people? Yeah. I think they actually did send it to the store, I think. Either way, that's the human element I'm talking about. That's one example of so, so many that are out there for you. And this is another example in real life. This is happening in my circle right now.

And I'll share it that way and then give a parallel example. Cause I want to protect the stories of people that I know and care for. You could very well have a VP in your company, stellar family, American dream, big house, white picket fence, two dogs.

And you don't know that that guy might be realizing his daughter is now hooked on drugs. Wow. Like that can very well happen. And how do you extract that? What environment do you create? What space do you create? Where,

where, where does that person go? Who's leading 30 people on your team? Where do they go? They can't go to anybody under them, at least not at first. They can't go to their peers. They got to go to you,

the owner, the leader. That's the space you got to create. That's what I'm talking about. There you go. And standing in the scap, like you talked about for them. Yeah,

exactly. And you got to give people that, that leverage. So you want to hear a good, you want to hear that story about Xena, my foster dog? Yes, we put on the platform, so we should exercise it. Yeah. Yeah. So I believe also, you know, whoever might be listening, giving back is important.

Actually, before I jumped on this show, somebody who I respect, I'm big into football. My son's in high school football. I think we're going to make a successful college career out of it, if not further. We're going to get one milestone at a time though. But anyway, one of my fellow friends in the coaching community has a kid in the city, in Redding City. Dad's not in the picture. It's mom, two sisters. This kid works full-time in high school, plays Reading City. Dad's not in the picture. It's mom, two sisters. This kid works full-time in high school, plays football, and provides for his family. He's the only income.

I took pillows for his whole family because I know that most everybody cheaps out on that, especially when they have to. Like, time, talent, treasure. If you don't have the dollars to donate, put some time into your community. I like that. If you don't necessarily have the time, if it's hard to get away because you're a single parent with your own children, but you're a graphic designer, maybe you can carve out an hour at night instead of watching housewives of whatever city they're in today. You can give an hour back to a dog charity and design a logo

for an upcoming event. I'm such a believer in that. I want to see Housewives of Salem. That might be interesting. It's all like witches from the 1800s or something. That's live next week at midnight on Tuesday, October 30th. Yeah, that's right.

So anyway, Xena the dog. So we have ebbed and flowed with dogs and fostering. At times it's treasure. At times it's time. And so the foster is time. We give our time to these foster dogs. Xena was a pit bull.

Horrible allergy skin conditions. Couldn't really be around other dogs. Got her used to R2. It took nine months of work with this dog. We finally get be around other dogs. Got her used to R2. It took nine months of work with this dog. We finally get her to a home. Meet and greet goes well. I have a packet that I give to foster, to new adoptees about how to bring a dog in and they break all the rules. I mean, I'm getting text photos within two hours of Zena beside the little boy with food in his hand. And like you said, she didn't like to play fetch.

She's out in the backyard with our dog playing fetch. I'm like, stop. She'll fool you. And then she'll break you. And the next morning, big dog fight. The toddler got bit. Oh, no. That's the death sentence for a dog.

Yeah. You know, he didn't, he didn't go after the kid. The kid was just in the, in the zone and no rescue is going to, is going to then adopt. So she comes back to us. We, we pour in another couple of weeks trying to make it right, but something triggered. And, um, we knew, you know, the only way that she would have stayed, um, would have have been with us but something triggered and it became a real problem in our home and uh so unfortunately we had to we had to euthanize her and that one to this day still it just breaks my heart because it didn't have to be yeah and and i guess the lesson there um, don't go be a maven and think, you know, better

like when somebody has given you advice and they're vested in your happiness. Cause I was vested in that family, having another dog, like, listen, listen to them. Take it. Right. Yeah, definitely. This has been a wonderful journey we've gone on i'm glad you shared a lot of this because hopefully there are people in the audience that have listened to kind of the journey we've gone on and talked about your journey uh that will maybe help them you know

reconcile where they're at or help them cross the bridge where they can start talking about it um the most important thing is to share that poison, people, and at least talk about it, at least to a therapist. Because if you keep it inside, it's just like a poison. It will just eat you. It will affect you in every sort of way. And poison will kill you. In the end, it will destroy you.

Whether it's a death by a thousand cuts, if it doesn't outright destroy you. So it'll affect your relationships. It'll affect everything you do. It'll affect your leadership, your business skills, all that good stuff. So I'm glad you're sharing that with the world and coming out and talking about it. Tell us where people can pick up the book

and then, of course, reach out to you on your website, some of the things you do on your website for people, for people and, uh, give us that final pitch out as we go out. Yeah. So if you want to get the book, it is on Amazon. You certainly can grab it there. The space for leadership. If you want to get it, uh, direct kind of learn a little bit more about the book before you go buy it, the Jeff G.com slash book. And you have a button on there. If you want an autograph copy, if you felt connected, um, I'm happy to autograph it, thejeffg.com slash book. I do have a button on there if you want an autograph copy. If you felt connected, I'm happy to autograph it,

send a little personalized message to you. If we can connect that way, I'd love to. So all that's on thejeffg.com slash book. And that same site has everything I do. We didn't get into the other businesses. We didn't get into some of the other work I do, but there's some blurbs there. Check it out.

And if you connect with it, reach out. There you go. Check it out, folks. And pick the book wherever fine books are sold. The Space for Leadership, Lessons for Who You Can Be Regardless of Who You Were. These are the journeys. These are the stories that are the owner's way into life and how we learn from each other. And if you know somebody who might need some help, pass the book along to them as well.

Thank you very much, Jeff, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. You're welcome. There you go. Thanks to our audience for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, FortunesCurseFuzz, LinkedIn.com, FortunesCurseFuzz, YouTube.com, FortunesCurseFuzz,

and CurseFuzz1 on the tickety-tockety. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. And we'll see you guys next time.