The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – The Ten Commandments of #SuccessWithoutApology by Rachael Melot

Episode Date: January 6, 2024

The Ten Commandments of #SuccessWithoutApology by Rachael Melot https://amzn.to/3H9K3Cs Rachaelmelot.com Can women have success, be powerful, and also be proud of the rewards of her hard work? Can women be successful inside and outside the home? Can they have family, a highly-charged career, love, money, and friendships? Yes! Yes, they can. And now, they can do it all, without apology. Like most women, you probably apologize more than you recognize. You apologize for working late, for being more highly educated than friends and family, for not making the parent-teacher conference or chaperoning a field trip, for the raise, for the convertible, for not cooking for the family each night, for.... You get the picture. It's a girl thing - we always seem to say "sorry." Rachael Melot is leading the movement for apology recognition and omission. Rachael has written a brilliantly thought out road map of mental change. What The Ten Commandments of #SuccessWithoutApology offers: - Personal triumphs, career highs and lows, as well as anecdotes inspired by her oft-times humorous Oklahoma upbringing. - Readers get an insider's glimpse into Rachael's life, and are challenged to acknowledge their own deeply ingrained tendency to apologize. - She details what inspired her to push through after her divorce and achieve professional, personal and financial success. - Through her motivating wisdom and #SassyHashtags women will realize how apologetic behavior can be detrimental to the respect they deserve, the advancement they've earned, and the life they want to live. The Ten Commandments of #SuccessWithoutApology-by a leader - for leaders, inspired by a woman who just wanted equality and would not apologize for attaining it HER way. #HowDoYouLikeMeNow About the author Entrepreneur / Speaker / Author Rachael mentors men and women on how to adapt office conversations, home routines, and daily expectations to promote womens' success in every form and most importantly, without apology. Read her story in her first published book, The Ten Commandments of #SuccessWithoutApology, and the podcast series "Success Without Apology" which can be downloaded on the blog page or subscribed to on iTunes or Stitcher. You can find more about Rachael Melot and her speaking style on her site. This combination of midwestern southern gal meets NYC thriving ad executive delivers a perspective and authority unlike anyone you have heard before on the topic of success both at the office and home.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

There you go. When the Iron Lady sings it, that tells you that we are live at five on the Chris Voss Show. We don't do this show at five. What are you talking about, Chris? I don't know. Anyway, guys, welcome to the big show. We hope you enjoyed the holidays. It's the new year, if you're watching this 10 years from now on YouTube, as people do.

It's 2024, January 2nd, I believe. Yeah, there we go. So I hope you've all set all the settings for your resolutions, your goals for the next year. But hopefully one of those goals is listen to Chris Vosh more. Jesus, we're putting out three to four shows a weekday, 15 to 20 shows a week, and we're constantly having the most brilliant minds in the show,

the CEOs, the billionaires, the Pulitzer Prize winners, the astronauts, the CEOs, the billionaires, the Pulitzer Prize winners, the astronauts, the White House advisors from all sorts of different presidential administrations. Going back to Nixon, actually. We tried to get JFK, but I think everyone's expired from there. I don't know. We'll check. But these folks bring us the amazing stories, the learnings, the lessons of their lives. And as we always say in the Chris Foss Show, stories are the owner's manual

to life. We have another amazing young lady on the show today. Rachel Milo joins us on the show. Her latest book, The Ten Commandments of Success Without Apology. She has a hashtag, success without apology as well, to go with the book. Joins us on the show and we'll be talking to her about her book, what goes inside of it, and all that good stuff. In the meantime, go to goodreads.com, Fortress Crispus, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Crispus, YouTube.com, Fortress Crispus, and all those crazy places on the internet. Rachel is the author of the latest aforementioned book and the producer or host of a handful of podcasts ranging from grocery industry insights to

local leadership. She was one of 12 women chosen to work with women business leaders in Tunisia through the George W. Bush Women in Fellowship Program, and she brings a very unique entrepreneurial yet corporately accepted approach to women's advancement. She's been the keynote for thousands at the National Grocers Association Conference in Las Vegas, to hundreds at the Leadership Oklahoma Forums, to dozens at Conner State University, Presidential Leader classes, and many others.

She has the ability to capture the room with personalized presentations and the ability to laugh at her own mistakes along with her career and to help others face the trials and tribulations of personal brand growth. Welcome to the show, Rachel. How are you? Oh, I'm wonderful, Chris. Thank you so much for having me today. Thanks for coming.

It's an honor to have you. Give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs to get to know you better? Absolutely. You can start with my name, Rachel Melo. It's R-A-C-H-A-E-L-M-E-L-O-T.com, RachelMelo.com. You can find my name on LinkedIn, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, formerly known as, or you can look up the Success Without Apology. And that is generally without any spaces success without apology either success

without apology.com or the same on linkedin apple podcast facebook instagram and formerly known as twitter there you go for whatever it's called this week people watch this show five to ten years from now so uh i'm sure it might be called bankrupt by then i don't know the way it's going uh who knows who knows maybe it'll be called spacex or whatever maybe it'll call be called bankrupt by then. I don't know the way it's going. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe it'll be called SpaceX or whatever. Maybe it'll be called Y at that point. You know, X, Y, Z.

All I know is I can't find it anymore on my phone. It's like it's a different icon. You know, I've spent, what, 15 years or something looking at the Twitter bird, right? Right. We've been looking at the blue bird, and now we've got to look for the blackout. I'm always like, where the hell's the blue bird? Like we gotta look for the black I'm always like where the hell's the blue bird like old habits so hard so give us a 30,000 overview of the 10 commandments of success without apology yeah sure so the the really narrowed down scope is uh you know I didn't

do success the same way that my mom did right and I didn't do success the same way that my mom did, right? And I didn't do success the same way of really anybody I'd ever seen before me. And so I'm sitting in boardrooms and I'm across the room and somebody makes a comment about, you know, you're not going to ever be at the top because you don't do it this way. And I thought, well, really? I mean, how close minded, right?

At the end of the day, because I don't do it the way you do it i'll never get there and so it's like started uh breeding a thought of like what why why do we think that people have to succeed the same way we did right and so um follow that up and about a year later sitting in a room and I'm actually in Prague, Czech Republic, we're meeting with our Tunisian ladies. And one of the gals stands up and says, you know, I'm going to pursue these things regardless of what my husband says. I'm not going to apologize for being more successful than him. And the thought was, oh, my gosh, you're going to have success without apology. And immediately the room just erupted in response to that statement. And it

was 12 American women who were mentors and it was 12 Tunisian women being mentored, but the message resonated the same across, right? And so it was like, oh, other people feel this too, right? And then that began just the process of what are the ways that we apologize for doing success differently? So that takes you through 10 apologies that I thought I was making or that I thought people were asking me to make. And then it's kind of a challenge for the reader to look at it and say, you know, are there things you're doing differently? But rather than owning them and letting them be part of your story, you're apologizing for it. Do you think that people do that as a bit of a sabotage or a bit of a, what are some of the terms that people use with

the the they feel like they're an actor like the imposter syndrome there you go thank you you feel like people are doing that because of imposter syndrome or they're not worthy enough they're you know there's there's that thermostat sometimes we have that kind of keeps us in a zone and whenever we go above it or below it it kind of kicks in and goes well you might be getting a little too big for your britches there oh for sure right i mean first think about the you know the story of the crabs crawling out of the bucket and you know one starts to get too high and the other crabs always pulling back down right there's there's that kind of storyline of nobody really wants to get too far out of wherever they say their place is going to be. I think there is no truth to that. But I also think some of it is just, and this is geared

largely towards women, both it's to the women and the men readers, but it's really the women's version of success story. And we just haven't seen a lot of um role models before us so we don't know how to own it part of it part of it is we just don't know how uh secondly is the um the innate cultural things that happen around us and to us that we don't really even recognize that ask us to apologize for success and so we just do it with inherently without even thinking about it. I use this as a just a kind of a primary example, and you all heard it. But if I say, hey, Chris, man, that is a great watch that you're wearing. A man will typically go, yes, it is great. You know, it's one of only six Rolexes ever made in, you know,

this country during this time made by so andand-so, the magic watchmaker. And everybody will ooh and ah, and we will, you know, men will stand proud of that watch. You can say to, you know, Mrs. Voss, hey, Mrs. Voss, that's a great watch you have. And she'll be like, oh, you know, it's, you know, it's a gift. Somebody gave it to me. And I mean, and, and, you know, it's, it's really not that big of a deal, or I got it on sale. It was, it was discounted. And I, and I used, you know, my discount. That's an apology, right? That's a downplay. That's a, Oh no, please don't let me show out my success. Right. And just culturally we do that. I mean,

you can ask 12 year old little girls about those things and they will, they will shun away from being too proud that they have earned something or that they bought something or they you know they have earned a prize there you go do you think that's a deferment to feminine nature and masculine nature i mean as masculine men we're kind of designed to be a little bit more uh overt and and and uh well we're we're something let's put it that way um you know it's it's we're we're very overt we're something, let's put it that way. We're very overt. There's a lot of prideful things to being a man. We beat our chest, things like that.

And feminine nature is more covert. And do you think there's something to that between the masculine and feminine, the natural part of us? Yeah. So, Chris, I think that's part of it. I think there's a lot of things that play into it. And I think the real, you know, the, the reason that we talk about it is because then how do we, how do we climb the ladder of success if, if we can't, you know,

be proud of what we've accomplished so far. Right. So in corporate America, how do I, how do I exude confidence without arrogance in this feminine space where, you know, maybe a generation before me, you know, they said, well, act like a man, you know, be, be bossy, be that other B word. Right. And now we've evolved to this place where it's like no you don't have to be a man be it be a woman and and be you and do it your way but we haven't quite seen what that looks like um in a lot of industries or spaces quite frankly and so to figure that out um is a little bit of what the book's about there you go tell us a little bit of what the book's about. There you go. Tell us a little bit more about your history.

We always ask about the hero's journey. How did you grow up? And what were some of the things that shaped you and kind of made you want to go into business and do things for yourself as an entrepreneur? Sure. Well, both of my parents were entrepreneurs, but I never knew that, right?

Like they never used the word entrepreneur. My mom taught tumbling. My mom opened a travel agency. So she would call herself a small business owner, but never would have considered herself an entrepreneur if you would. My dad was a rancher. He was a cowboy till the day he died. Cowboy, right? All in. And if those guys aren't entrepreneurs, I don't know what is, but they get up every day as their own boss and try to figure out how to make a living off the land, right? And so that's how I grew up, you know, just the child of two hardworking parents, dad who said, you know, you can be anything you want to be, right? And my mom demonstrating it, neither of them with a college degree, but they were both very successful.

My dad has since passed, but my mom still is a hustle and bustling entrepreneur, just always doing great things. But I didn't really know that that's what I was going to be. Honestly, I went to college on a track and field scholarship, and I still had no idea what I was going to be when I grew up. I pursued a teaching degree because people always said, you're a good teacher. I was like, okay, well, I guess that's what I'll do. And graduated still undecided. And now here I am in the end of my 40s, and I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up. You and me. I'm still trying to figure that out. But the one thing I do know is I love my podcast. So, uh, I've been doing it for 15 years, so I'm, I'm going to stick with it,

I think, but I love entertaining people, making them laugh. And I love, uh, meeting interesting people like yourself and learning from them. There isn't a show that goes by that I don't have an epiphany and, and, uh, or have some sort of paradigm shift where I go, I didn't look at that in that way, but okay, I see now. And so hopefully my audience does too, damn it. I'm shaming my audience right now. I have to guilt them. Keep in line. So there you go.

Now you've done a lot of cool things here. In the bio, you've run multiple companies, I believe. Let me see where I can find that here. You got a master's degree in educational leadership. Leadership is so important to a lot of these different aspects. And then I know you're running for, I think, state Congress. Is that correct? State Senate.

State Senate. So I want to give you that accolade. And let's see. There was something else. Just multiple companies, I think, is what I read here that you've started over the years and done businesses and stuff like that. What do you, right now with the book, what are you trying to accomplish? I noticed that you're blowing a whistle, kind of like a coach on the cover of your book. Is that your focus right now is to build the book build your speaking build uh

build coaching etc etc sure so uh yes so i do motivational speaking and uh kind of corporate coaching on creating environments uh for success for all people and i do a lot of consulting work to small to large associations or organizations on that. The whistle that you see in there is actually a tribute to the fact that I did 24 years of officiating basketball. Yes. And so I did more than a decade refereeing Division I women's basketball all over the country. And I think that being on the sideline and having this really unique position as a referee to, you know, manage a basketball game, make correct calls, and also hear and listen to people when maybe they aren't as sane as they would be if they were outside those times. Puts me, you know,

in a unique position to be able to negotiate tough situations, to have crucial conversations, to be able to experience a lot of emotions and find a way to find solution and or agreement or at least acceptance, regardless of kind of where the emotions are coming from. And so the whistle on the cover of the book is, it's just that. It's a tribute to really the lessons I learned on the sideline of being a referee. There you go.

Now, do you tell those stories in the book? I do tell a few of those stories in the book a referee. There you go. Now, do you tell those stories in the book? I do tell a few of those stories in the book. Yeah. There you go. And, you know, you might want to apply to the NFL. They've had a couple of bad calls recently. I think one was a Kansas City game or something. I don't know what it was.

It's not the Raiders. I don't pay attention. But, I mean, I'm happy with the Leafs. It was the Lions game. It was the Lions game. It was the Lions game? Yeah. So, yes, people are so quite heated.

I watched it this morning on SportsCenter while I was on the show. Yeah. I guess the officiating team has been demoted. Well, it's unfortunate, right? I mean, officials make thousands of decisions every game, and one of them can sideline their career for a period of time so it's a job it's a really tough job right yeah it is people can blame you for everything you don't make the playoffs and it's their fault it's not it's not fair sometimes it's a tough job it is it is but

i imagine it builds a lot of character for yourself you know you're spending a lot of time analyzing things trying to make the right calls and it shapes you in a lot of ways as a referee as a leader i mean technically as a referee or a leader you're in charge of you know making sure that everyone follows the rules and games played fairly and you know you try and be a good judge of of balance you know that that's being a ceo of companies all my life since 18. I mean, that's one of the factors I always tried to be was be a good judge and be able to call the ball right. If I had to fire someone or demote them or throw them out of second story windows, the callback joke on the show. Don't do that, folks.

That's just a joke. Don't do that. We never did that. Anyway, whatever. The lawyers made me say that. But we might have done it. That or I was about ready to jump out of a second story window sometimes over employees. But, you know, learning to be a good judge, and I think that's really important in leadership,

in learning how to be a good judge, being a good evaluator. Because not only do you have to evaluate the business, the aspects of where it's going. But a lot of times you have to evaluate employees. You have to go, you know, what's going on with this employee? Is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? How can I maybe fix them or provide servant leadership to make them better, et cetera,

et cetera. Any thoughts on what I just made up there, Thin Air? You know, that is an important aspect is the ability to have discernment and evaluate situations and see everybody's point of view, but yet do what is right. The biggest thing about being a basketball official, to your point, is you really have to be of utmost integrity and you have to, you know, you have to behave better than everyone else. Right. You have to manage your emotions better than everyone else. It's a role where you stand and get called everything under the book. And the expectation is that you will respond kindly and professionally regardless. Right.

And everyone else in the arena has carte blanche to say or do whatever they would like to you right and so it's a very unique situation to be able to um to know that you must always be of utmost integrity and you also have to have a lot of control over your emotions and your words. You know, we have the tool of a technical foul, but that's about it. Right. I've had coaches bow up to me. I've had coaches threaten me. I've had players threaten me.

Threaten a woman? Jesus. Of course. What are we coming to, man? A father that, you know, followed me all the way in my car and threatened me i mean it's all the things right wow yeah participation generation sort of thing i don't know i i when i was raised you know when i was raised back in my day uh all right here you come here comes chris with the get off my lawn speech uh old man thanks boomer i'm not a boomer people uh but you know back in

my day you know they did teach sportsmanship and it did seem like team sports were a little bit nicer you know people shouted stuff but i mean at the end of the day everyone shook hands uh i remember you know we went through a sportsman like thing i think in basketball we had yba i think it was called youth basketball association um you know all had to shake hands before and after the game and have a moniker of sportsmanship. We were taught sportsmanship. But yeah, I think it's really changed now. And yeah, you see a lot of violence

and people getting in fights and stuff. I remember there was somebody I was dating and I went to the basketball games of her kid um and yeah there's people getting fights fistfights in the uh in the bleachers and i was like you know they're children here people they're watching like they're not even like i remember i think i think at once one time uh her son said to her, he goes, you know, mom, I really don't care that much. You're really, you're really caring more than I care. I don't want, I don't know what the hell's going on there, but I'm the one playing the

game and I'm fine. So just calm down. But yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of funny how engaged people get, but yeah, I mean, you, you have a rule book, you have the rules they're written. And so you have to get people to form them. You have the rules. They're written. And so you have to get people to form them. And, of course, everybody wants to play. Well, my team, you know, the rules don't apply.

And we could bend the rules. And, you know, they weren't on the foul line or whatever the heck the case is. And you're like, no, this is my job. This is what we do every day. And we're really good at it and holding the line. I did hear a sports broadcaster this morning, you know, telling the story of, you know, giving the officials at least the credit to say, you know, actually officials genuinely want to get plays right.

I mean, this is why there is replay now. It didn't come from the coaches. It didn't come from the leagues. It came from the officials, right? The officials want to get plays right. They watch a lot of film. They do a lot of study. But it's the only piece of the game where perfection is expected, right?

I mean, you can shoot 70% from the free throw line and still be successful, 30% behind the free throw line and be successful. You can win, you know, 80% of your games and be successful. Um, 30% behind the plate, if you will, but officiating the expectation is perfection.

Right. And so it's a really hard thing to live up to. And, and everybody's, you know, human. There you go. Yeah.

Everybody makes mistakes. I mean, even referees but he's trying you're you're judge and jury you try and get it right you try and do the right thing you know integrity is important certainly some of the people in the stands might have a little bit of bias maybe a little maybe some less integrity uh so there you go but you're you're the person who has to hold the line and try and make it fair for both teams. So, um, let's tease out some of these 10 commandments, if you will.

We always like to have people buy the book to find out what the whole story is, but can you tease out a couple of these 10 commandments that maybe your favorites? Sure. Sure. Um, you know, there's a couple, um, of them, I think for the first one, you know, that I would probably put up there is one of the apologies is do not apologize for your motherhood status. And this is really touchy because, you know, when I first entered into the executive world, it would not be uncommon for the hiring committee to ask questions like, you know, who's taking care of the kids if you, a female, are going to work, right? Are you going to take your sick days to take care of children, et cetera, et cetera, right?

And these were looked at as negatives for hiring females. Very fast, we'll get into the workforce. And then in other environments, you found people who were like, oh, well, if we're going to hire you as a female, are you planning on having children soon? Are you going to need maternity leave? Are you going to be out? And that was a negative to hiring them.

And then on the flip side, you'd hire some single person. And the expectation was that single person always worked the late shift or the weekend shift or the holiday shift because, well, they're single. They don't have children. They don't have a life. So, yeah, right. You don't have a life. That's me. I know.

We're just going to take your life. So yeah. Right. You don't have a life. We're going to take your life. Right. And so one of the things that I work here is like, don't apologize on either side of that and set your boundaries accordingly. Right. And so I talk about, um, I opted to not have children. And so one of those things that, you know, I, I was asked many times in interviews, especially as I got into almost my 30s was, you know, when are you going to have children? And all the conversations that happened after that, right? And so one of the apologies I say is, you know, if you're a female and you have four children at home and you need to have on your resume what a really amazing project manager you are, because you managed to get four kids to four things at four different times all in one minivan. Like you have mad time management skills.

Right. And so don't apologize for your motherhood status. Instead, find ways to show what you have gleaned from that experience and what life gives you, not what it takes from you. And so that's a great commandment that people may find interesting to read. Because I find many people who say, oh, well, I don't have kids, so I'm not going to read that chapter. And I say, I dare you. Go ahead and read it. Because hopefully, I don't know, we've had some people on the show lately that have talked about this, but it seems like some of the people in jobs and job recruiting are starting

to realize that life experience and what you've done in your life across it, um, whether it's been job applicable or not is, is experience that helps you, you know, problem solve, uh, evaluate, you know, some of the stuff that,

you know, we're talking about with what you did in coaching plays into business and, and leadership and stuff like that. Uh, it, it, it, it all cross,

cross plays. And so, um, and so, yeah, I mean, certainly if you have four children i don't know you may be able to multitask better i do because i if i get you know i haven't had children either and if i

get around them i can i can add about 20 minutes before well actually it's 10 before i start losing my freaking mind um yeah and i love children they're great they're great for other people and uh i think it's so great that they're holding up my end of the breeding process that the universe wanted me to do. But, uh, thank you. Thank you for covering my end of the action.

Those of you who had five, six kids above the average norm. Thank you, Utah, pretty much basically. Um, so, you know,

there's an average of 10 kids or whatever that goes on up there. And thank you also for, uh, doing my part of the wives. I skipped that too. So thanks Utah for doing the polygamous wife thing. Anyway, but you're right. I mean, raising four kids, you know, if you raise two, even if you don't raise, I mean,

these, these are all life experiences and stuff, you know, I mean, certainly all these different aspects. What's another 10 commandment that you want to tease out maybe? Yeah. So this one I think is important for the business owner, which is don't apologize when you pivot. Right. And I think this became a much more popular word during COVID. But I wrote this book right before COVID.

I released it a couple of years before COVID. And this wasn't a term everybody was using. But really, you know, in life, sometimes in your version of success, you may have to pivot, you know, to your point, I've owned a couple of small businesses. And, you know, sometimes they run their course, right? You run a construction business, that is a period of life. And that is a time. And then there comes a time when you're like, okay, and now I've learned what I needed from this or gleaned what I needed.

And we're going to take a pivot. In the book, I tease out some of the personal choices that I needed to pivot away from. And really kind of how being hurt or vulnerable or broken at some point in life creates opportunities to pivot. And so in the book, it talks a little bit about when those things happen that really gut check you and really put into question everything you think you know to be truth and stable and you may need to pivot. There you go. It's a life experience, right?

Yeah. I mean, you know, you give me a very interesting paradigm to think about how, you know, I've had companies that have gone out of business and, you know, we built a nice little empire for almost 20 years and then 2008 came along and one of our biggest, uh, assets was a mortgage company. So, so that,

that went well, um, in the mortgage company meltdown crisis, uh, of all the things to own. I thought it would own that company forever. Um, and,

uh, but you know, your paradigm that you shift that you stated that, you know, maybe, maybe it was more you stated that, you know, maybe, maybe it was more of a thing where you learned everything you need to do and you need some new challenges. I love, I love looking at that way. Cause the other way it was really painful. True.

Yeah. You know, you can, you can wallow in it, right. You can wallow in the sorrows or you can make that list of like this. These are the things that I took from that, that I learned from that. And, and, you know, sometimes I'm like, thank you, God. I don't need to learn that lesson anymore. I got it. Let's, let's move on to a new lesson.

Yeah, most definitely. And, and, uh, yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at it. You know, some people take it on as a, as a hit to the chin and they go, I'm a failure. I screwed up. I'm worthless. Maybe they're going to do an apology like you talk about in your book. But having the paradigm, okay, well, we ran its course. It's interesting.

I found some companies, you have a great business model. It runs its course five years, 10 years. Then all of a sudden markets change or, you know, Amazon maybe steps into your field. You know, there's a million different things that can happen. And then suddenly it doesn't work anymore. And you're just like, well, holy crap-a-moly, you know, what do we do now? And off you run. Let's tease out one more, if you don't mind, before we go.

Sure. So let's say, you know, out of the Ten Commandments, I'll talk a little bit about this one then just a little bit differently, which is, you know, don't apologize for other people's emotions. And so this is one of those things where I think as we enter into workforces that maybe haven't hired a lot of women or they haven't hired a lot of people who look like you or act like you or speak like you. Other people may exude certain emotions that that you don't need to apologize for, right? And so how do you navigate success and the journey without assuming everyone else's emotions? And that's in the corporate space. And then I would say like in the personal space, you know, as you look for the perfect mate or the perfect partner or the perfect wife or husband or whatever that may be, you know, your journey of success may travel faster or slower than theirs, which then leads to them having emotions about your success. And I think one of the things that, you know, that I have learned through failure and in some success is that I can't, I can't make your emotions better.

Right. I can't make you feel better about my success. And so, you know, we have to be really careful with the people we surround ourselves with because we really have to look for people that we've put in our life that can accept our success, that they aren't the crab in the bucket pulling us back

down, right? That they're actually out there rah-rah-ing with us. And that may be friendships, that may be partnerships, that may be marriages, that may be business partners, quite frankly. Yeah. If you're apologizing for other people's emotions, it's going to definitely hinder your ability to progress and succeed. Definitely. You can't live your life based upon other people's emotions. I had a friend say recently on Facebook, he goes, try not to be a dick. I don't know. It was some sort of mantra that he was trying to do of like doing whatever. And I'm like, and so I responded and we had a

little discussion about it. And I was like, I was like, but dude, you can't control people's perception of you. If they think you're going to be a dick, then that, I mean, what are you going to do? Are you going to try and be servile or walk around like you say, maybe apologizing, I hope I'm not a dick today to anyone. I'm trying really hard, which is the opposite of what I do every day. And you just can't live your life that way. You can't live your life being everyone's step on. There's always going to be, number one, there's two types of people. There's people that are just going to perceive the way you know, being everyone's step on. And, you know, there's always going to be, number one, there's two types of people.

There's people that are just going to perceive you're the way you are. You're a jerk. You're a, uh, uh, uh, you know, I'm, I'm just surprised when people tell them, come and tell me what a wonderful guy I am. I'm like, have you seen me lately? Um, and, uh, uh, I'm like, you're, you clearly

have me confused with somebody else because everyone else is telling me I'm an asshole. Um, which is true. But, uh, and so you've got those people and then you've got some people, they just hate you for your success.

Like you talked about, they're not your cheerleader. And so they're going to think you're a dick, whether you're not being a dick or you're being a dick. You know, I've had a lot of people make a lot of quick judgments about me, which are usually right. If they're for a lot of people make a lot of quick judgments about me which are usually right if they're four letter expletives and uh uh so you know there's that you just you just can't live your life that way it's a horrible way to try and live and trying to be a

people pleaser to everybody because you just never can please everybody no and and you have to be true to yourself and and be the best version of yourself that you can be and you can take those you know assessments and evaluations and you can put them in your pocket and say okay those exist those have come in i've evaluated them as truth or false but you can't um you you probably can't change a lot of those right you? You can't get up each day and go, well, I'm not going to go on the Chris Voss show today because he's got way too many followers. Somebody's going to think that I'm trying to show out, right?

And so what I'm saying is, that is something that women have apologized for that, that women regularly apologize for. I hear it. I hear them say this to me. I hear husbands say to me, Oh my gosh, I'm buying this book for my wife because she apologizes all the time. And, and I'm like, it is. And so, you know, the, the band theory,

you know, it's put the rubber band on your wrist. And every time you say the words, I'm sorry, pop that band. If it's not actually an, I'm sorry, but maybe it should have been an, excuse me,

or, you know, may I, you know, talk to you? Not, I'm sorry. Can I ask a question?

Yeah. You don't have to fix a lot of that. Narcissism. That'll do it. That'll do it. You never have to say, sorry to anybody ever again. Yeah.

That'll do it. You know, there are times to say, I'm sorry. Yeah. But there are also times to just say, excuse me, or to just start the question.

quarantine did a commercial in the 80s, and they released this commercial in Asia. They'd never released it in the United States, but it's actually a sorry, not sorry ad campaign. And it's really interesting. When you share this, you can definitely put that commercial in the show notes or tag that old video won a ton of awards. It demonstrates in in great, you know, 45 second videos, these just cultural apologies that we make. And a woman will say, oh, I'm sorry. Here, will you hold these groceries while I get the other 25 bags out of the car? But I'll say, I'm sorry when I ask you to hold them. Or I'll sit down next to you and you'll bump my arm off the armrest and I'll say, I'm sorry. Yeah. Right. And so these, these unnecessary apologies, what they found in a lot of the research that they do by people much smarter

than me is that those I'm sorry's that are unnecessary really shrink a person's presence. Right. And so it makes you smaller, always kind of underling and kind of pushing yourself down when maybe you're in an equal setting where just eliminating those two words helps the perception of you dramatically. Yeah.

I just knocked her arm back off the airline seat and just take control. I'm big enough. Anyway, I just give them a look and they're just like control of the, I'm big enough. Anyway, I just give them a look and they're just like, um, but no, you're right. I mean,

there was, I've had, I've done that in time in, in, uh, in times of my life. And so I think some people mistake it for being polite. You just,

you just want to be polite. You don't want to cause a scene, you know, um, and stuff. Uh, I, I know that sometimes I've been yelled at by women that have been like, quit saying sorry all the time.

And I'm like, I see. I'm just being polite. Like, you know, I mean, I have two choices. I can say I'm sorry or whatever. I don't know. There's a joke there somewhere. I can't find it. But, you know, you're like, okay, well, okay.

I just won't apologize for anything anymore, which I have found works as well. Blame everybody else. We never have to apologize. Blame everyone else for everything you do wrong. Take no self-accountability, people. That's the real key to it. No, I'm just kidding. So there you go.

Give us a final pitch out on the show for your book, people to get acquainted with your services and what you offer there, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So thanks again, Chris, for having me on the show. I appreciate it. I'm a listener. I listen to your podcast and appreciate it. But if you want to get to know the Rachel Milo message, you can go to RachelMmilo.com or successwithoutapology.com.

I would ask, you know, to read the book, buy the book. You can buy it on Amazon or anywhere you buy books. You can download my podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And, you know, the other thing I would say is just, if you're a woman, you know, just think about the apologies that you make during the day and see if they are really necessary. And if you're a man that you notice women are apologizing, encourage them, right? To apologize if it's necessary, but not apologize for things like just doing success your own way in your own version. I'd love to have you read the book. I'd love to come talk to your company or organization.

If this is a message that resonates with you, or if you're seeing a change in your industry, like I have in so many others where maybe second or third generation daughters are now taking over companies and it looks different. They run it differently. They manage people differently. And what does that look like for policies, procedures, meetings, et cetera, that now that there's kind of a new voice in the room,

what do those need to look like so that we can be as efficient as possible? There you go. Thank you very much, Rachel, for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. There you go. Thank you very much, Rachel, for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. There you go.

Thanks for coming in folks. Order of the book, wherever fine books are sold. Uh, the 10 commandments of success without apology, the hashtag success without apology. Um, do we get your.coms before he went out?

I can't remember if we got them. Rachel Milo.com and successWithoutApology.com. There you go. Thank you very much. Thanks, my honest, for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, FortressCrispFoss, LinkedIn.com, FortressCrispFoss, the CrispFoss newsletter. So sign up for that. The 130,000 LinkedIn group, CrispFoss1 on TikTok and CrispFossFacebook.com.

Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. And we'll see you guys next time.