The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Think Unbroken: Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma by Michael Anthony

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

Think Unbroken: Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma by Michael Anthony I wrote this book because it is the book that I needed when I started my journey to both understanding and overcoming my traumatic past. When I started I never expected what it would become.The short version is this: I come from a dark place, my ACE score is ten, and I attempted to take my own life twice, not to mention being morbidly obese and a drug addict at 12 years old. Today, I am happy, healthy, and driven towards being my best self every day. Why? Because I choose to Think Unbroken.I have taken the tools and science from countless hours and years of education, mentorship, therapy, trial and error, and plain and simple dedication to my health, and distilled them down into a palatable book that is less about my story, and more about how to change your mindset through real world exercises and understanding.The world likes to label people who come from nothing as "broken." I don't believe that about trauma survivors. I believe that we simply have not had the right heroes and teachers to follow. We are not broken. What started as a simple blog post has turned into a guide and dare I say a companion to be by your side as you walk into the depths of self-actualization and healing. I hope that you will find what I found in this book and that is hope, understanding, reflection, shift, honesty, and a spark.The impact of childhood trauma and abuse can forever alter the course of history. Throughout generations, countless children have been hurt by those that are meant to care for them. Yet, in society once those children turn to adults the impacts of child abuse are often discounted and spoken to with the frame of ‘that was years ago” or “it’s time to get over it.” The reality is that we are at the core a collection of all of our experiences leading up to this very moment. If the childhood trauma survivor’s foundation is built atop a volcano, then sooner or later it will be engulfed. Childhood trauma and abuse is the elephant in the room of societies mental health epidemic, and most people don’t know how to understand the role that trauma has played in their life.When I sat down to craft the baseline of The Think Unbroken book, I did so intending to create something that would be a testimony to the undeniable will of the human mindset. For generations, the world has been plagued by the ramifications of the effects of Child Trauma, and like millions of childhood trauma survivors, I was stuck in The Vortex. My life in a word was a disaster. I was an addict of undeniable proportions, I was morbidly obese and suffocating under the weight of my past. Think Unbroken is not only a guide to helping other Trauma Survivors find their way out of The Vortex, but it is also the cornerstone to how I changed my life. I am, in essence, a product of my product, and I believe that Think Unbroken is the key to taking the first steps in overcoming the effects of childhood trauma.This book will expose you to possibility through mindset, palatable understandings of self, and a step by step guide to discovering out how to place the first piece of the puzzle on the table. What you will find in Think Unbroken is not just my story, but a reflection of the possibilities that can become a reality when you understand that Mindset is Everything. Childhood trauma took everything from me, but I took everything back, and so can you.“THOUGH TRAUMA MAY BE OUR FOUNDATION IT IS NOT OUR FUTURE.”

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi this is voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com hey we're coming here with another podcast who knew we'd do it again? Like a thousand episodes? Why would we do it again?

I don't know. It seemed like something we should do. You guys are always tuning in. We figured we'd do at least one more. Maybe there might be one after this. I don't know. Anyway, guys, go to see the video version of this. It's free for an unlimited time on the interwebs.

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we're trying to keep up with them. Be sure to follow us over there as well. So we're excited to announce my new book is coming out. It's called Beacons of Leadership, Inspiring Lessons of Success in Business and Innovation. It's gonna be coming out on October 5th, 2021. And I'm really excited for you to get a chance to read this book.

It's filled with a multitude of my insightful stories, lessons, my life, and experiences in leadership and character. I give you some of the secrets from my CEO Entrepreneur Toolbox that I use to scale my business success, innovate, and build a multitude of companies. I've been a CEO for, what is it, like 33, 35 years now. We talk about leadership, the importance of leadership, how to become a great leader, and how anyone can become a great leader as well. So you can pre-order the book right now wherever fine books are sold. But the best thing to do on getting a pre-order deal is to go to beaconsofleadership.com. That's beaconsofleadership.com. On there, you can find several packages you can take advantage of in ordering the book. And for the same price of what you can get it from someplace else like Amazon,

you can get all sorts of extra goodies that we've taken and given away. Different collectors, limited edition, custom made numbered book plates that are going to be autographed by me. There's all sorts of other goodies that you can get when you buy the book from beaconsofleadership.com. So be sure to go there, check it out or order the book wherever fine books are sold. Today, an amazing author and coach on the show. He talks about a lot of amazing things. I think you're going to be definitely mind blown away today. He is Michael Anthony, and he is the author of the book, Think Unbroken, Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma. He's going to be with us talking about his stuff today. From homeless to hero, Michael is the founder of Think Unbroken,

a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author, award-winning speaker, podcast host, and business coach, also an advocate for adult survivors for childhood trauma. Michael started his first business at only eight years old and became an executive at 33 and has worked with multi Fortune 500 brands, small business owners and entrepreneurs to get clarity on their brand positioning, marketing value and missions. Michael has spoken in over 80 countries, won investments from undercover billionaire Grant Cardone and is on a mission to end generation trauma in his lifetime. Welcome to the show, Michael. How are you?

Chris, I'm amazing, man. I'm sitting here like I need to make a better intro because Chris is bringing the fire. Oh, we bring the fire. It's the coffee, really. It's that coffee we're drinking these days, Devil's Mountain Coffee, the highest coffee you can get. Maybe they'll become a sponsor. So welcome to the show.

Give us your plugs, your dot coms, so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah, totally, man. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Very easy. I'm Michael Unbroken across all the platforms everywhere. That's Michael Unbroken. And you can learn about everything that I do, including tons of free content information and the app, the podcast, and more. If you just

go to thinkunbroken.com, think unbroken. There you go. There you go. Do you have any 404 broken links on your website? I'm just kidding. Probably at least 200. You and me. If not more. So there you go. So let's touch on the book real quick and then some of your other background. What motivated you to write this book? You have quite the story. Yeah, man. Here's the thing. I've been a writer since I was a kid. I put myself writer first.

Before coach, before entrepreneur, I'm a writer. And I was living out in Asia, Southeast Asia, for a while. And I was thinking to myself, man, I've gone on such this interesting path of healing, of changing, of growing, of understanding things, of making it out. Just from my zip code alone, I should be dead or in jail, not to mention all the actions that I've taken in my life. And I sat one night as I was thinking, I was like, I'm going to take what I understand about massive change, and I'm going to put it together in something practical that can effectively be the 101, the entry level for people who are starting to take this very uncomfortable and difficult journey. And I just sat down one day and I said, I'm going to make this. And I got turned down by, I don't know, more publishers and agents than I can count.

And then I self-published it and I pushed it to number one and it's sold tens of thousands of copies around the world and back again. But that's just because I just wanted to create something that people could use as a companion on their journey. There you go. There you go. So you experienced traumas in your childhood. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So my elevator pitch version, my mom, drug addict and alcoholic, she actually cut off my right index finger when I was only four years old. So that kind of gives you that reaction, right? And that's the truth of it. And people say, how could someone do that to their child? And it's just the repeating of generational trauma. And my stepfather, super abusive. I spent the majority of my childhood homeless and in poverty. I lived with 30, three, zero different families between eight to 12 years old. I got

high for the first time. I was 12 drunk at 13. And by, by 15, I was expelled from school for selling drugs, the average American story. And I found myself in this position of looking at my life through this scope of trying to figure out how you navigate all of the chaos of growing up the way that I grew up. And I always was entrepreneurial minded. And so around the time that I got into a last chance program for to graduate high school to get my diploma, which I still did not graduate on time, I started thinking about the solution for poverty, for abuse, for homelessness, for suffering. And Chris, man, I thought it was money. I was like, oh, it's got to be money. This has

got to be the thing. And so I chased money and I said, I want to make $100,000 a year legally by the time that I'm 21. Legal was important. I got family in prison for life. I've been in handcuffs. And as of today, my three childhood best friends have been murdered over drugs. And it was like, if I keep doing this, I'm going to die. And so I said, if I keep doing this, I'm going to die. And so I said, all right, that's what I'm going to do. Do it legally. Figure this out. When I was heading into 21, landed a job with a Fortune 10 company, started making my six

figures. And that thing that happens to people when they get money for the first time happened to me. And my life got destroyed and turned upside down even worse than it already was and i found myself by the time i was 26 being 350 pounds smoking two packs a day drinking myself to sleep and i had this moment one morning i was laying in bed it's 11 o'clock in the morning i'm smoking a joint eating chocolate cake and watching the crossfit games. And I was like, this is rock bottom. This is what it is.

This is that moment. So what are you going to do about it? And Chris, in that moment, I made a decision. I looked at myself in the mirror in the bathroom. I had no idea the reflection of my, I did not understand who I was in any capacity. And I said to myself, what are you willing to do to have the life that you want

to have? In the words, no excuses, just results. It just started reverberating through my body. And what it really meant in that moment was stop negotiating with yourself. And 11 years later, here I am talking to you. There you go. That's amazing, dude. And you've certainly lost a couple pounds off that 350. There's a couple, yeah. Congratulations. I know how hard it is to lose weight, man. Congratulations. No, but this is cool that you had that presence of mind because a lot of people that are traumatized, they don't have that presence of mind until they're either locked in prison or in a rehab center by an order by a judge. And even then, sometimes the presence of mind

doesn't fully kick in. They've got to do it a couple of times. So congratulations for you to cut it off at the past and try and start addressing it and having that presence of mind. And so now you act as a coach and someone who inspires and stuff and helps other people get through their trauma. Is that correct? Yeah. And I want to say this too, because it wasn't that singular moment that created change in my life. There were multiple poor and illy time decisions that I just got lucky enough to survive. Like I got into some gnarly things, man. And that moment where I created this change, like that just became the beginning of moving the pendulum. That was it. That's all. It was just one step. And so today, yes, I'm honored. It's a privilege. I get to help people who have been where I was. And I just look at it as this. If I can just guide them, if I can be the person just one step ahead, that's all I'm trying to be. And just show them how to avoid the pitfalls and then show them the practical tools that help them create massive change in their life. then they don't have to do this alone. And I never planned on doing this.

Rewind six years ago, there's a 0% chance we're having this conversation. Here's what's really fascinating. The world, the universe, God, spirit, I don't care whatever you want to call it, said this is the thing that you're supposed to do. Stop ignoring it. Lean in, face the fear and see what happens. Yeah, that's a really important thing, facing the fear. A lot of people hide their trauma or they're ashamed by it or they are in denial about it. They don't want to look at it as trauma. What sort of advice do you give people like that? Because I imagine, what's the first step to somebody who's out there listening and they've experienced trauma or childhood trauma. What's the first step would you recommend for them to start start getting on the journey that you went on?

Yeah. And you're spot on. And the hard part about it is that there is shame. There is guilt. There's pain. And we all feel it like like child abuse and the things we go through. It's like the elephant in the room of mental health care. Like it drives me crazy that we can't have this conversation without people having fear.

Because you always hear it. You're an adult now. Why don't you get over it? And here's what I always think about. If it's true, which I believe it is, that we are the sum total of all of our experiences leading up to this moment, then that means that everything that's ever happened in our life informs us. And to negate the fact that something bad happened in childhood, that is dismissive. And so how do you get to step one? Step one is this. Can you just acknowledge it? That's it. It's not about blame. It's not about culpability because the things that happen to you and your youth, those are not your fault. And you cannot carry that weight. You cannot do that because if you carry that weight, then it will be a burden until the day you die. If you take responsibility for the people who are supposed to take care of you, that is a long, hard, dark road. It definitely is. It definitely is.

And you've been certified in several different things and aspects of psychology. I'm trying to pull it here. You're a certified clinical trauma professional, right? Yeah. So I have a ton of different certifications and certificates and this and that because I decided to make a really interesting investment in myself about five years ago. And I just started doing adult, like PhD, continuing education around trauma. And I just wanted to learn. Like that was it.

It was just like, I need to use this so I can make my life different. And that's carried a tremendous amount of weight. And luckily enough, I've been able to work with the Gottliebs. I've been able to work with Pete Walker and then, excuse me, Bessel van der Kolk and a handful of of weight. And luckily enough, I've been able to work with the Gottliebs. I've been able to work with Pete Walker and Bessel van der Kolk and a handful of other people. So it's really been beautiful to learn to have the tutelage under people who I consider to be more advanced in this than I am. And look at your website. I noticed you had a lot of great testimonials from people who really overjoyed working with you and how you helped them. I thought those were really amazing. Yeah, I appreciate that. Here's the thing. I believe that adamantly,

if you bring value to people's lives, like you can help impact them in a positive way. And so that's what Think Unbroken is for me. It's can I make myself obsolete? Like, Chris, I think about this a lot, man. It would be an amazing moment in my life if one day somebody picked up my book and they were like, this makes no sense. Childhood trauma, what is that? That is ideal to me. And so I try to do my best to bring value to people's lives so that one day that conversation can take place. That is awesome. As a mentor for adults who have survived child abuse, what sort of things do you provide? I think first and foremost, it's a vehicle for having a conversation about something dark that people do not share openly, that people are terrified to talk about. And in having that conversation, one of the really beautiful things that happen is that people start to understand frameworks in which they can create change in their life. Now, of course, there's the practical side of coaching in which we dive into all the things

that I've created from the education and my own life experiences. But I think first and foremost, the one thing I've experienced and all of the people that I've coached is this general connection of feeling communal, of, man, I'm not in in this alone because i felt like when i started this journey i was like man i feel so alone i can't talk about this because 11 years ago nobody was having this conversation yeah yeah i i think being alone is the hardest part of feeling alone like you either can't talk about it or you feel like and I've noticed that in my journeys of being transparent about life challenges. Years ago I had one of my first dog children die and it happened within 30 minutes of a

seizure. And just within moments, my whole life was turned upside down of my little dog family. And I shared out how I was feeling on social media. I didn't want to share it. But by being transparent and opening up about it, not only did it help me, but it helped a whole mess of other people that were going through or having gotten closure with their deaths of their family or animals. And I was really surprised at how, whoa, okay, I'm not alone.

There's a whole lot of other people, and they're hugging me. And this isn't as bad as I thought it would be. But I think it's hard other people and they're very, and they're hugging me. And this isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I think it's hard for people to cross over that bridge sometimes for the first time. Yeah. There's a lot of fear and shame involved in that, right? People are afraid that they'll be judged. People are afraid that they'll be condemned. And the one thing that I've discovered probably more so than anything in my travels and living around the world is that people are unbelievably kind and supportive and there for you. And yet we get inundated and indoctrinated by the media that says, be scared of everyone. And I'm like, that's not true. It's

just not. And I think that there, there in any time that we put ourselves out there, shame, judgment, ridicule. But when you face your fear, beautiful things happen. Imagine if you didn't do what you did. You'd have a different story right now. Yeah, very different. It'd probably be eating me alive inside. And I think that's the real problem with childhood trauma is it eats people alive. It eats your brain alive.

It eats your soul alive. It eats everything eats people alive. It eats your brain alive. It eats your soul alive. It eats everything about you alive. And then it's, I think I saw Oprah talk about it one time and there was a guy on a, it was leaving Neverland, the leaving Neverland movie. And after the movie of leaving Neverland, um, they talked, they were talking, Oprah was interviewing the two boys and a guy got up who'd been, I think he'd been in the NFL. And he said, the poison is what you hold inside or something like that until you get it out. It's, it just festers and destroys you. And so sometimes just speaking your truth and talking about it helps people resolve it or helps them get on that journey to resolving it.

Yeah, absolutely. You carry this tremendous amount of suffering within you and that's got to escape somehow. And so a lot of times it's these coping mechanisms that we have. It's video games, it's drugs, it's sex, it's alcohol, it's workaholism. It's all these things that we go to because guess what's easier than facing the truth of the reality of your life? Running from it. And I did that for a long time. And that's how my life turned into what it was because I just looked at it and I said, the further away I can get from that, hopefully the better things will be. But in reality, the further I got away from it, the worse my life got. Now, look, I will say this. I don't think people need to take their stories. I don't think it needs to be on the Internet or social media. You don't need to write a book.

You don't have to coach. You don't have to do podcast. You don't have to do any of those things, but you do have to have a conversation with somebody who can help proctor that in a way that can be beneficial on your healing journey. Because the more that you hold it, just to your point, like it is a poison. It will kill you. It will. And it destroys everything around you. Just relationships. People struggle with it and it affects their relationships. It affects everything in their life. And it's good that they have people, like you say, to talk to and seek help from. What are some of the other things you want to touch on for people that you do with them when you help them?

Yeah. Look, I'll tell you this. I don't help anybody, Chris. That's a misnomer in coaching. The only thing I do is I sit and show you a roadmap. It is so much like Neo and the Morpheus, red pill, blue pill. And I help guide you through this. It's a guide. I'm like, I'm a Sherpa of this chaos. And it's very much about helping you make tactical and practical understandings and decisions about how to navigate your life in a way to overcome the limitations that we think about what's possible. Because think about this, man. And I know that this is true for me. I would assume

it's probably true for you and most people. Sometimes it's just one thing, one thing we need to hear, one thing we need to understand, one thing that we need to make meaning of that changes everything. And so when I'm working with people, whether it's in groups or one-on-one or a book or a podcast or this, can we give people one tool that they can carry with them that can hopefully change the way that they think about possibility in their life? Because so much of the experience of coming through trauma is learning how to turn yourself off. And what I'm trying to do is help you discover who you are through showing you simply ways that you can step into that and help yourself. You give people a lot of tools, mindset over everything. Tell us a little bit about that.

I find that quite interesting. Yeah. If you could actually, you can't see it, but in front of me, there is a giant sign that says mindset over everything. And that is because when you get this thing, this mind, this brain of yours in connection with possibility, then possibility starts to happen. But Chris, here's the thing. Like people always are like mindset. What is mindset? Let me give it to you in a really simple, practical way. What you think becomes what you speak,

what you speak become your actions and your action become your reality. And right now, you are telling yourself things that if you said to me, you would get punched in the face or arrested. And you're expecting yourself to be successful. It doesn't work that way. And so in a very practical sense, I want you to think about something. If you take a pen and I challenge you to take a pen and write this down. I am the kind of person who is kind to myself. I am the kind of person who is kind to myself. Why does that matter? Because think about this. How would a person act in the world if they were kind to themselves? What you think becomes what you speak, become your action, become your reality. And so if you move into this place where you're thinking about, okay, if I'm operating through this scope of kindness, and I understand that the way that I think my mindset is what matters more than anything on planet Earth, when it comes to making decisions that create change in your life, if operating through the scope of kindness, you will consider what would a person of kindness do in this moment to create the life that they want to have.

And if you understand and you leverage the truth of the reality that the only way life changes is through making hard decisions, and the most kind thing that you can do is honor that. Your life will be very different. Amen. I just lost for words there. Amen. You talk about accountability and stuff. I've been on this thing where I've been really, the word accountability and victim mindset has really been on my mind lately

and some of the things I've been studying and what's going on in the world and identifying people that seem to get stuck in a victim mindset and they just writhe in it. They're just, they almost bathe in it after a while. It just becomes an identity for them for victim mindset. And you talk on your website about accountability. Could you touch on some of that? Yeah, I think accountability is such an important part of this journey. And I don't think that people really rationalize how important it is to take responsibility for your life. Look, by all means, be the victim. I get it.

I played that role for a long time. You don't get to where I was in life without doing that. And then you have to face the reality that at some point you're going to have to be responsible for your future. Now, again, this doesn't mean you take culpability. It is not your fault that bad things happen to you, but you're going to have to take responsibility over what's next. Let me put it like this. You own a house, right? You walk outside every day and in your front yard, there's trash. You didn't put the trash there, but it's your house. So what are you going to do about it? And that's really difficult because that means that you have to acknowledge and you have to

take action. You have to change the way you think and you have to hold yourself true to your word. You have to build trust with yourself from doing difficult things, from showing up when you say you're going to show up and doing what you say you're going to do, then in that scope of accountability, that's where you start to see that pendulum have momentum and start to push you forward into what's next for you. And accountability is the base. It's so important. And it's so overlooked because people are afraid that they can create the life that they want. Because here's what's really interesting. On the backside of accountability is the potential to do anything. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, that's the hardest thing.

Some people, it becomes an identity for them, the victim mindset. And no one wants to say, hey, something, trauma happened to you as a child or whatever happened to you is, we don't want to discount that. But there comes a certain time where you have to go, hey, I got to fix this and move on with my life. You can't keep dragging that thing through your whole life. Otherwise, your whole life is going to be miserable. But I think there's some people that kind of enjoy the misery of it, the drama of it. I don't know. But definitely getting to accountability and breaking those things down. This is pretty cool. I love how you do this because it's been on my mind. I don't know if you got on Clubhouse app when it was really hot. Grant Cardone's been on

there a lot. We'd hold little rooms and forums and there would be people that come in and we create a safe space and there'd be people that talk about their trauma from childhood and stuff. And I was just shocked at how much of it there was. I probably shouldn't be shocked considering how awful human nature is, but it's so shocking. And some of the stories were heartbreaking and wrenching and you just realize how much trauma and damage is out there. It was insightful. And I think it's important that more people have resources like yourself to take and do this. Yeah. If you go and look at a lot of the research and the studies that point towards the implications of trauma in Western society, particularly, there are certain studies

that say 83% of all people have a traumatic childhood experience. I would argue it's probably when you think about non-reports, when you think about things must stay inside the home, when you think about people don't know how to handle that when something bad happens to a child, I do. I honestly like Chris, no joke. I really think it's probably like 95%. And so when you, when you think about that and you're like, and I'm not saying people have perfect childhoods. I don't think people have perfect parents. I don't think that's the measurement for it, but a lot of bad things happen and they'll keep sweeping them under the rug and it's no wonder our society is such a mess right now great hand-me-down regeneration of trauma and mess and and all sorts of stuff my trauma was

the plastic couches in the 70s and the and you were never allowed in the living room i think it was living your family room living room of that? I don't know. Yeah. That was part of my generation. The living room was some kind of temple that you were never allowed into because company might be coming over at any moment that never came over. And then, of course, the plastic couches that if you ever did sit on, then they would rip most of your skin off when you got up. And those were usually in the cars, too, as well. So that's the highlight of my, some of my trauma.

But, yeah. And then I think it was the 1970s tan colored refrigerator. Maybe that was it from Sears. Anyway, just doing jokes here. Let's talk a little about what you do with brands and leadership and stuff. Let's get into some of that. You talk about how to overcome fear and finding your power in your brand voice. A lot of people are looking for that. Let's talk a little bit about that. Yeah. I've been fortunate enough to be in marketing and branding for the better part of a decade now. I think anytime that you're an entrepreneur, a solopreneur, you run multiple businesses, you're a VP or an exec, you have to understand your brand identity because the truth is if you cannot convey your brand to the forward-facing marketplace,

you're going to get lost in the shuffle of the chaos of everything that's happening. And one of the reasons I think it's really interesting to be willing to face fear in stepping through brand identity is because you have to put yourself out there. There are people like this idea, if you build it, they will come is so silly. They're not coming. They're not coming because you didn't invite them. You didn't tell them. You're supposed to invite them? What? Yeah. Yeah. Look, if you want to build something in your life, you're going to have to tell people. You're going to have to tell people. You're going to have to tell people. And the shame and the fear and the judgment that

we have about our ideas and our dreams, you're going to have to step through that. Because on the backside of that, you may save somebody's life. You may impact the world in some traumatic and dramatic way. That's incredible, impossible, beautiful. And yet you're worried about the people on Instagram judging you. Keep doing that and watch yourself not be successful. And it's hard because, look, we have these dreams. We want to put it out there and people are going to judge you.

But guess what? They already are. And what does that have to do with you? That's true. That's true. Well, it was an online from Fight Club. We buy things to impress people that don't give a crap about us. Yeah. You are not your cat. Yeah. You're not your cat. You're

not here. Yeah. You're not. Why do we know these things? Fuck Martha Stewart. Yeah. These are really important. You also talk about how to own your story and how to stand out in the marketplace. Let's get into a little bit of that. Yeah. I think that's the big part of it, right? When you're moving into any market and people will often say markets are oversaturated. I don't think that's true. I think you're just not good yet. And the thing that you have to understand about that is when you're in this position of leveraging your story to create impact in the world, that's what people relate to. Go back 10,000 years when we were sitting around the fire eating buffalo or whatever it was that we were doing as mankind. It was storytelling. Go look at the writing on the walls, storytelling, books, storytelling, podcast,

storytelling. Tell your story. Talk about what it is that you're trying to do. Tell people why you're doing it, how you're doing it, who you're doing it with, and what you want to do. Share the story. Share your experiences. Share your life. And look, I will say this. If you're in a position where you're in a service-based business, people are going to connect with you because of who you are. If you're in a product-based business, people are going to connect with you because of having a voice that connects to them and what they want in the world.

And so when you understand how to leverage your own experiences to share that in the forward-facing market, people are going to connect with you. Think about this. I don't know Cadillac. I have no idea who Cadillac is, but I know who Chris Voss is.

Well, you do? Well, that makes one of us. No, it's true. What about leadership? I'm trying to speed around a few things here because I know you're pressed for time on your heart out. I just wrote a book on leadership. Leadership starts with real vulnerability. I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

Yeah, people have an amazing bullshit detector it's unbelievably good and if you as a leader people look when the titanic was sinking and the captain was like no we're fine everybody else was like i don't believe you you gotta keep it real with people man everybody on my team i got dozens of people who work under me. They all know the truth. We're super authentic in any vertical that I'm in in business. We keep it real because people want it real and they're going to know if you're not. And if you're scared, like, guess what?

They're already scared, too. And for you to come in and pretend everything is okay man you're setting yourself up for failure in a way that you don't even understand yet i have this image in my head of the titanic cabin going oh actually it was the iraqi guy there there you go there's the iraqi guy i had the titanic guys up to his waist and water everything's fine but now i'm thinking of that iraq guy remember the iraq guy in the War? He's like, the Americans, we beat them. The war is over. We win. Baghdad Bob, they called him.

I don't remember that from the First World War. But he was getting up as Baghdad was falling and everything, just totally trying to PR the whole war that Saddam was winning. It's crazy to me if you ignore the truth of what will happen. Everything is fine. Nothing to see here. Move along. And that works until you have to go bankrupt,

fire all your employees, close down shop, and make what you can back out of the money you owe. Yeah, it's like that meme where everything's on fire and the little dog's going, this is fine. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And people know it's not fine. Yeah. They know it's not fine.

Yeah. And you've got to be vulnerable. I think a lot of people mistake that being a leader you've got to be you know tough all the time me tough me bad no no vulnerability i don't know monkeys don't say that evidently yeah no and i think if you want to be an effective leader the vulnerability side about it is about human connection that's's true. Let be a human. Be a leader who is a human. Allow yourself to connect with your team, with your people, because the reality is people want to be led to a certain extent. I know I do.

That's why I have mentors. Show me how to get to where I want to go. And so when you're being an effective leader, if you're showing people through the pitfalls and the successes, they're going to trust you more. There you go. There you go. This has been wonderfully insightful to learn more about you and your book and how things are going. Anything more you want to touch on before we go out? Yeah, man.

Look, I think at the end of the day, the number one thing that anyone can do if they want to create the life that they want to have is they start with facing the fear. We all have fear. It's right there in front of you. And you can touch it and you can smell it and you can see it. And it's the thing that keeps you awake at night. And if you want to die with no regrets, you've got to face your fears. And I'll tell you this, my biggest fear is on my deathbed,

I will wonder what if. And because I'm so scared of that, every day I push myself forward. So you have to understand something. You're not promised tomorrow. And that thing that you want to build, create, do, that job you want to leave, that relationship you want to start, whatever it is,

it's on the other side of your decision to face what's in front of you. You get around that fear of when you die. Before you die, you order a tombstone of just the middle finger. That's my plan. I just came up with that. I'm going to write that down. It works out for you. I'm going to have to reinforce the middle finger because I think a lot of cemeteries are going to be breaking that thing off.

So anyway, this has been wonderfully insightful. Thanks for coming on the show, Michael. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks for being here and sharing your wisdom and knowledge. Yeah, it's my pleasure, my friend. Thank you so much. There you go, guys. Also, order up his book.

Contact him at his website, Think Unbroken, Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma. Did we get your plugs in, your dot coms again? Yep, it's at thinkunbroken.com, and I'm on all the social media at Michael Unbroken. There you go. There you go. Thanks, my honest, for tuning in. Go to youtube.com, 4chesschrisfoss,

hit the bell notification button. Go to goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss. Also go to Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, all those crazy places the kids are playing at nowadays. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Be good to each other, and we'll see you guys next time. So we're excited to announce my new book is coming out. It's called Beacons of Leadership,

Inspiring Lessons of Success in Business and Innovation. It's going to be coming out on October 5th, 2021, and I'm really excited for you to get a chance to read this book. It's filled with a multitude of my insightful stories, lessons, my life, and experiences in leadership and character. I give you some of the secrets from my CEO Entrepreneur Toolbox that I use to scale my business success, innovate, and build a multitude of companies. I've been a CEO for, what is it, like 33, 35 years now. We talk about leadership, the importance of leadership,

how to become a great leader, and how anyone can become a great leader as well. So you can pre-order the book right now wherever fine books are sold, but the best thing to do on getting a pre-order deal is to go to beaconsofleadership.com. That's beaconsofleadership.com. On there, you can find several packages

you can take advantage of in ordering the book. And for the same price of what you can get it from someplace else like Amazon, you can get all sorts of extra goodies that we've taken and given away. Different collectors, limited edition, custom made, numbered book plates that are going to be autographed by me. There's all sorts of other goodies that you can get when you buy the book from beaconsofleadership.com. So be sure to go there, check it out, or order the book wherever fine books are sold.