The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Tony Redondo, Founder and Director of Cosmos Currency Exchange Ltd on Building a Business in Times of Crisis

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Tony Redondo, Founder and Director of Cosmos Currency Exchange Ltd on Building a Business in Times of Crisis Tony has worked in the financial services industry for over 38 years and is a fully qualified Associate of the Chartered Institute of Bankers. After holding senior management positions for many years for various banks and brokerages, he founded Cosmos Currency Exchange in 2020. Cosmos offers its clients a unique experience when they need to either make or receive a currency payment in over 35 currencies to and from over 50 countries around the globe. Rather than the transactional, reactive, self-service approach endemic in the finance industry these days, Cosmos provides a bespoke, pro-active relationship-based service where each client is treated like the individual they are. At Cosmos, all its business comes from referrals. Tony thinks that speak volumes. Cosmos has won seven industry awards to date.

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Voss Show glow. As always, we ask you to refer the show to your family, friends, relatives. Go to goodreads.com, Fortuna's Chris Voss, linkedin.com, Fortuna's Chris Voss. During the big LinkedIn newsletter, it's just every day I go, it grew again. Go to the big 130,000 LinkedIn group as well, Chris Voss TikTok, or I'm sorry, YouTube, Chris Voss1 at TikTok, and chrisvoss at facebook.com as well. We have an amazing gentleman on the show. We're going to be talking about international stuff. There's going to be stuffage of the international type today. We have the Tony Redondo,

who is the CEO of his company, Cosmos Currency Exchange. And we're going to be talking to him today about the financial services industry and his journey of establishing his company and building it as well. Tony Redondo has worked in the financial services industry for over 38 years and is a fully qualified associate of the Chartered Institute of Bankers. After holding senior management positions for years at various banks and brokerages, he founded Cosmos Currency Exchange in 2020. He offers clients a unique experience when they need to either make or receive currency payment

in over 35 currencies to and from over 50 currencies around the globe. Rather than their transactional reactive self-service approach endemic in the financial industry, these days Cosmos provides a bespoke, relationship-based service where each client is treated like the individual that they are. There you go. What customer service? At Cosmos, all business comes from referrals, and Tony thinks that speaks volumes. They won seven industry awards to date.

He's married with a teenage daughter. Oh boy, that's a challenge. And in his spare time, he's a keen amateur astronomer who loves listening to music. Welcome to the show. How are you, Tony? I'm very well, thank you. There you go. You're quite brave there with a teenage daughter. Absolutely. It's a tough time. My whole household. It's a tough time being a teenager. And kids, you know, they're always finding their identity and figuring it out.

And you kind of have to give them a little bit of a wall to bounce around in. So, Tony, give us your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? Okay. So, for the company, the website is www.cosmoscurrencyexchange.com. And you can also find the company and myself on LinkedIn. There you go. So, give us a 30,000 overview of what you do there at the company in your words.

So you'd think in this day and age, 21st century of all this high technology and AI and robotics and everything else, it will be pretty simple for any client, be they a business, an individual, or a charity, to move funds from one bank account to another bank account, irrespective of whether the receiving bank is next door or across the globe. But it isn't. And there are lots and lots of pain points in that journey. And after a 35-year career in the banking world, I can tell you that a lot of the pain points are deliberate because the more pain points there are, the more charging opportunities for the provider. Quite simple, really.

Interesting how that works. Yeah. And really, a lot of it is not needed. A lot of it is because clients just can't. There is a lot of information out there, but not in a structured way. And I'm of an age where when I started my career in the city of London, bank managers were still bank managers. And they knew their clients on first-name terms and could shake hands and deal with situations. There was no email. There were no computers.

There was no credit committees. And unfortunately, most financial services, and especially currency exchange, has gone completely obsessed by technology. So much so that my biggest competitors don't even have a telephone number on their website. Yeah, that's going to become a thing, hasn't it? It's kind of interesting. The client is completely, you're by yourself. And with my industry, that causes two problems. The first one is the currency exchange rates

change every three seconds, night and day. Damn. So who has the time to sit there watching the markets? And would you respect how many people have the experience to know what they're looking for? Yeah second point is like in the us your banking system works to a swift number a routing number and an account number but in the uk it's totally different we use sort code and account number so if you're sending a payment abroad and you're using a platform where there isn't even a telephone number to ask for help, you know, it's a bit dicey to start putting figures in

and press buttons and the money goes. Just wing a hundred grand out there into the ether and hope it gets there. You know what happens. Yeah. Absolutely. So the idea behind Cosmos is very simple. We use the technology because it is available, and what is available is very good,

but we use it on behalf of the client. The client tells us. We do a discovery call with every client. They tell us what they're looking at doing, the time frame they're looking at doing it in, their attitude to risk, their availability of funds, and then we put together a personalized payment solution that is personalized to them and manage the whole thing from start to finish that's pretty darn awesome and you give that personalized service that you know you can't hardly find anymore now on what you're doing so give us a tell us about your

hero's journey how did you grow up how did you get interested in this sort of business and then let's talk about your entrepreneur journey about what it's like to start a company for the first time for you it was my timing you know 35 year business experience and associate of the chartered institute of bankers my timing was impeccably bad i launched the company six weeks before the first lockdown hits oh man wow so that was quite an interesting first six months, but like a lot of things in life, sometimes good

things come out of bad, and as difficult as the start was, it gave us an opportunity to broaden the scope of the business that we never would have had, because what happened was the banking system pretty much collapsed oh wow um people unless you're involved you don't realize a very simple

example a british or european exporter sends an invoice to an american client the american client is now going to pay that invoice by wiring US dollars to a dollar account in Europe or the UK even if our US client banks with one of the major US banks they can't use online banking because in the US online banking only works domestically so unbeknown to the exporter the US importer every month gets the invoice gets in the car drives to the exporter, the U.S. importer every month gets the invoice, gets in the car, drives to the bank, fills out the form, pays the bank $50 for the monies to be wired across to Europe or the U.K. or wherever it has to go. Imagine during lockdown when all the banks were shut. Oh, wow.

I didn't even think about that. Wow. I didn't even think about that. Wow. So I started getting lots of phone calls from ex-clients of mine throughout my long years in the banking industry saying, I know we're not clients of yours, but we're not getting paid by our clients. And I said, no, you're not. You won't be because they can't. You can forget all your Canadian clients. You can forget all your U.S. clients.

You can forget all your Australian clients. The banks are shut. There's nothing they can do. The only solution is to find somebody who can give you access to a dollar account inside the United States. And that has proved very difficult to do since 2012 when the Patriot Act was passed by Congress. But we found a solution. So now we can get rid of lots of pain points in one go because now that British or European company doesn't have to have their own dollar account, which costs money with the local bank.

They just register with Cosmos. The invoice goes out with our dollar bank account details, which happens to be based in New York. Oh, wow. So the clients in the States can just do an online transfer free of charge to New York we collect the funds ship them back to the UK and convert them back to sterling or Swiss francs or euros or whatever the client wants us to do so it suggests a much more practical solution that makes life as easy as possible for the exporter to win the business overseas and keep it.

And you found a way to get over it. This is the beauty of being an entrepreneur, finding people's pain points. Sometimes it starts from their own, but finding people's pain points and helping them solve them. And you've done it on a personal level, which is just awesome because, you know, we moved to such an automated level. Like you say,

I, I find it highly suspect and frustrating when I, when I can't find a phone number on a website, which is intentional, you know, it's like, we don't really want to talk to you. I'm like,

okay, well, I message received here. The, and you, you would think they would at least have a backup emergency number. And sometimes you can find it if you dig hard enough through the website but but you know even then you know you get on the phone with them and it's got 50 000 prompts and different uh forks the splits that you got to go through you know before you

finally get to you know sometimes they don't even there's there's a couple companies i know that have like a secret they never tell you that you can hit zero and if you hit zero that will take you to an operator but they never put that in the prompt no and you're just like you little fuckers let's see what's going on yeah but this is a big deal i know the patriot act was kind of a real pain in the butt when it first came out because i mean at first there was something about how you couldn't transfer over a hundred thousand dollars and like there was a bunch of payroll companies that got up the first weekend and came out where i can't remember if all their checks balanced or yeah i think that's what it was all the checks balanced at some of the local big companies i knew because they they transferred over100,000 into, I think it was like $300,000 on one company's account.

They did the transfer to the bank. It got held up. And then, of course, they'd written checks to all the employees on it. And, you know, they were sending money to their payroll account. And, yeah, it got all mocked up. It was a huge nightmare for a while there. So who are your main clients? Who are people that use your company and stuff?

So 40% of our clients are our business clients who are either importing or exporting. That's the traditional corporate base for a business like ours. In the last couple of years, what we've seen is a huge increase is businesses implying overseas freelancers you know digital nomads as they're sometimes called and having to make payments here there and everywhere or receive payments because everybody's online there's a lot of online networking that goes on so it's never been easier to find international clients the difficulty is in making life as simple as possible for that client because as I went online in 2020 as everybody else did with the lockdown I started getting told over and over again by clients that yes you know the clients

overseas love our products but it's such a pain to get the funds out of the US or out of Canada or out of Australia to a UK account that even though our product is superior and a cheaper price, they'll end up going with a local supplier because they can just write a check. Wow. And it's so much easier to pay. So that gave my little brain thinking as to, hold on a second, you know, there is an opportunity here because if you know which way the banking system works, you can find a solution usually. And so we did. That's great, man. This is the beauty of being an entrepreneur, finding solutions, solving problems, trying to figure out how to make things work and then how to make things unique,

you know, resolving pain points and making money off of it. You know, a lot of people who want to be entrepreneurs, you know, you should list this sort of stuff because this is what you do. You find a pain point. Sometimes it's your own. Sometimes you have a product or service or something that you're just like, this sucks. I could make this way better. You know, we had somebody on the show recently who was a novelist and a very successful novelist. And they're used to read a lot of novels and they just were like hey this isn't all i could wait make way better novels this this could be better that could be better so they started making

novels and off they went so so was it were you were worried a little bit during the 2020 thing or did you did you just have a sink or swim sort of attitude and you just you're just like well we'll figure it out i guess i mean on a personal level the honest answer is you know the only thing i've ever learned over and over again in my life is that if you don't try you're guaranteed to fail so you better give it a go there's no point dipping your toe in the water jump in make the best of it but in all honesty you know i had a successful 35 year career i turned my back on there i launched cosmos i have you know a mortgage to pay a teenage daughter who you know teenage daughters are pretty expensive and buy all the

clothes and to make matters worse 90 we lost 90 of our sales pipeline in the first six weeks oh my god because my last two jobs in the industry were working for brokerages that specialized in international property deals and with the continuous lockdowns all them went up in smoke but to sort of really underline what you were saying earlier, we survived because we helped clients survive. We found solutions for our clients. The example I've used is the American. The other thing that came to our rescue was Brexit, where a British client selling a property in mainland Europe, say Spain, before Brexit to get the euro sales proceeds back to the UK would cost a flat fee of about 20 euros. After Brexit, the Spanish banks started charging up to one and a half percent of the value of the transfer.

So if you sell a villa in Spain for 300,000 euros, you're looking at a transfer fee of four and a half thousand euros just for the transfer that's before the conversion costs holy crap yeah and and it was done like that you know the brexit was done on the 31st of january from the 1st of february i started getting phone calls wow and again we found the solution and the solution again was to go local so we've now got a euro account even though we're a British business we've got a euro account in Dublin in Ireland we've got a euro account in Frankfurt in Germany both are still inside the single market so a transfer between Spain and Ireland or Spain and Germany is seen as a domestic transfer where all of a sudden they can only charge a flat fee

not a percentage fee so it saves the client a bundle of money the other thing we bring to the party is that again unlike the platforms platforms are fully automated so if the euros or the dollars arrive today they'll get converted today irrespective of whether the market's in favor or not. We don't do anything fully automated. We have a manual override on everything. Oh, really? For example, today, the pound is at a 12-week high against the dollar, a three-week high against the euro. So it's not a good time to sell dollars, not a good time to sell euros.

So any euros and dollars we've received today, all that happens is we receive them, we store them safely in a protected client's account for the client's protection of funds, and then we advise the client, in our opinion, the rates are not great. If they need it straight away, we will do it straight away.

If they can afford to wait, we think the rate is going to get better or whatever the circumstances are. We're not prevalent, but we will try and use our experience for the client's benefit. That's pretty cool. So you can basically game the system. You can

figure out the best way to do that. Do you work with cryptocurrencies? If so, how? Yeah, we don't. No, we're not regulated. We're not regulated and I think we will ever be. Not in their current formats. Yeah. I mean, there's no exchange rates there, but I know it's one way people have been using to do stuff over the Internet

and make exchanges do what they want to do. What about, how is Cosmos different in comparison to like banks, online brokers and payment apps? I know, you know, I've used, I transfer money with PayPal and stuff, but I'm not transferring, you know, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of dollars through it. Just millions, millions. Millions. So, so how are you guys in comparison to using that? Because I know some people pay their employees through like PayPal and other online. That's right. That they have, you know, like we'll have tech people on the show that, you know, they have a startup and they have different programmers all over the world.

How do you do that? Yeah. What's your comparison to that? The comparison is that it's one of the reasons why we're based down in cornwall it's not only a very nice part of the world to live in but it gives us a meaningful competitive advantage because we don't have london overheads so we don't have to take london margins to cover our costs it's a lot cheaper to run a business down in cornwall than it is in london so the biggest usbs for formos are that personal service,

the relationship-based service, the local bank accounts, and the fact that we're proactive. So very few clients will phone us up and say, I've got X to do, do it straight away. Most people know how we work and what they will do instead is say in the next, whatever their timeframe is, I need to do this. And then we will be their eyes and ears in the market. And within their timeframe, when an opportunity arises, we'll be in touch with the client to say, this has happened in the market. For example, buying dollars from Sterling today is at a 12 week high, but Friday is

a new month and we've got a non-farm payroll data out of the u.s which is the key unemployment data now we'll give a big steer to the markets as to what the federal reserve are going to do in terms of u.s interest rates if it goes the wrong way you know the dollar could re-strengthen and the pound come off so we'll give clients you clients a little bit of guidance and our opinion on what the markets are going to do so that anybody buying currency minimizes their costs. Anybody selling currency can maximize their return from that sale.

There you go. And you can always talk to a human being. Those are always important. Not a human being, but a human being. Now, do you work with something called FTX no we don't there was a question that you had sent me considering FTX are the clients funds safe

when they deal with Cosmos oh okay sorry I was taking it a different way because there's a company called that that we're not associated with we're fully regulated we're fully authorized by the Yeah, no, we're fully regulated. We're fully authorized by the UK regulator,

the Financial Conduct Authority. Okay. It's even better. So, for example, in the United States, your bank account is guaranteed by the US government for up to $100,000. Yeah. Believe it or not. Yeah, I mean, so if you got more than you know, if you got more than a hundred thousand,

you're kind of screwed. So in the UK, that figures 85,000 pounds, but we're not a bank. We're not governed by the bank of England. We're governed by the financial conduct authority. So every penny, we don't have an upper limit.

So you can have millions with us. If cosmos goes wrong and we go bust, your funds are safe because client funds never touch our office accounts they're always held in protected clients accounts there you go there you go there you go like trust fund basic accounts I don't know exactly like an escrow account there you go there you go so you guys work with personal people and businesses and charities I didn't think about it but I guess charities do take international money and pass it around. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And again, it's a growing part of our business. A typical example, I met a lady through networking based in Vancouver in Canada who's on the board of a Canadian charity that runs free schools in West Africa. And on the face of it, it's a very simple transaction. Canadian client, registered in Canada, charity, moving Canadian dollars to US dollars once a month. It's plain vanilla, except the dollars are going to free West African countries,

which means the Canadian banks won't touch it. She's then having to use the likes of Western Union or PayPal, who will charge 9, 10, 12% margins. Wow. That's very expensive. What we can do, for us, every step of the transaction has to be compliance. So if there's something wrong with the charity, we won't onboard them. If there's something wrong with the beneficiaries, we won't send the funds. So everything is checked out. So as long as it checks out, we will do the transaction on the 1% margin instead of 10% margin.

So for the same amount of Canadian dollars, the free schools are getting extra income every month. That is, I mean, that's you're saving, you're saving eight, nine points on your money. That's a huge thing. Wow. What a crazy world, right? Yeah. There's very little competition in a lot of parts of the world where the banks are still very dominant in the U.S. market,

Canadian market, Australian market. There's four or five banks that have 90% market share. So there's very little competition. Whereas in the UK, there's 655 banks in the square mile of the city of London, but all those banks have less than a 50% market share. So the UK is very competitive, which is good for clients. So you started your business, you saw a space in the market between everything that was going on.

You saw a pain point, you saw there was a personal service. What has it been like? This is your first company, I believe, you started in 2020, right? Ever? Yeah. What's it been like for your journey as an entrepreneur to learn to be an entrepreneur, to master your business and navigate? You definitely started at the worst of times. So congratulations on surviving. Thank you. It's been fantastic.

And the reason it's been fantastic is the only thing that's really changed is that I believe there was a gap in the market in 2019, 2020. We've never spent a penny on pay-per-click marketing campaigns we don't market we don't advertise all our business comes from referrals so now i know there is a gap in the market and what's really helped me online networking is a great online free of charge university because you meet so many people from so many different walks of life that it's unless you have your ears blocked it's impossible not to learn from every networking events you go to so networking is one of the ways that you help survive learn and and kind of educate yourself about your business

absolutely I read a lot I'm a complete Absolutely. I read a lot. I'm a complete bookworm. I read a lot. I listen to podcasts, but mainly it's online networking because particularly nowadays with everybody on Zoom and Microsoft Teams and what have you, you just, you know, I remember the days when networking,

when I'll travel an hour, you know, to have a local group and you'll be the same dozen people every single week or every single month or whatever the case may be. Pass out cards. Then you jump online and you never know, people could be anywhere. You can find what you're

looking for in the data you're looking for because it's much easier to hunt it down. I remember doing that same thing. I would go down to the Better Business Bureau or something and you'd go down to the Better Business Bureau or something. You would go down there and they'd have a monthly or weekly breakfast meeting. You'd pass out cards. No one had any business because it was all desperate.

It was all desperate and brand new. I just started my company last week. So did I. You're just like, do you have any referrals? Do you want to do some business? They're like, we need money like you do. It's kind of funny. I'm like, I don't know about this group.

But yeah, it was one of those challenges. But yeah, now online, I think about when I started my brick and mortar companies so many years ago, there wasn't any resources, man. We had to make it up as we went along. About the only advice you could get, and fortunately, I spent a lot of time training. So I had to skip college, but I knew I needed education. So I read every business book I could get my hands on. I knew I needed what I called CEO training.

And so I started ordering Harvard Business Review magazine and Harvard Business Review. They had a quarterly back then. I think they still do. And then I would order courses from Harvard Business Review. And I would just order stuff that I wanted to learn about. And my main thinking process was, I'm going to prepare to be the CEO of a big company someday. And preparing for that was all the importance but back in my day the only the only way to really like if you were a small entrepreneur you know you go you go to your fellow business guys you know hey can you help me and they're like i'm busy and they're like how do you get how do you get you know business advice and like you hire an attorney who tells you your business advice and i was like well i can't afford that when you're doing a startup.

And so brick and mortar days before the internet, it was hard. You know, nowadays people don't even realize how easy it is to start a company and really become an entrepreneur, how easy it is to get advice. You can build a virtual board of directors much easier. You know, back in the day, I used to have to go around and, you know, contact some of the people I knew who are entrepreneurs and say,

Hey, do you want to start a virtual board? Do you want to give each other advice? And sometimes they're like, I'm too busy swimming. Sometimes they're like, yeah, okay.

And they really didn't get the concept, but now you can find like mentors and of course coaches online. There's just an endless supply of people. Fractional directors are a big, I really didn't get the concept, but now you can find mentors and, of course, coaches online. There's just an endless supply of people. Fractional directors are a big part of it. Yeah, the fractional stuff is really weird. We've had a few fractional CFOs and CEOs on and stuff, which is kind of interesting. It's a wild business where you can tap into amazing knowledge. How big is your team there, if you don't mind me asking?

And what's it like? You know, what have you developed with leadership skills on whether you're leading your team or leading customers, etc, etc? In terms of the team, I've always enjoyed a collaborative approach. I was lucky in that I had quite a long apprenticeship. You know, I look back and think, wow, I had a 35-year apprenticeship. So it was pretty good. Broking tends to be a pretty stressy, high-pressure, high-tempo kind of business. It tends to be quite a young person's business. So certainly, towards the latter part of my career, my last couple of jobs, I was by far the oldest broker on the trading floor.

Oh, wow. By far. my career my last couple of jobs i was by far the oldest broker on the trading floor oh wow by far and and you know and one of the few ones that's not the only one with sort of you know city of london experience so i ended up doing a lot of you know unofficial training and that was good because you know me and it are not our best friends uh i know what i wanted to do but it doesn't talk my language and but but it second nature to these youngsters, isn't it? So I'll come up with the ideas and they'll come up with the IT and then we would share the spoils. So I like the collaborative approach.

We have a team. We have a hardcore team of five people. And then everything else is done on a collaborative basis where there is no upper limit to anybody's earning potential and everybody works for themselves which means i don't have to manage anybody you know people understand how the money is made you know if they want to put a time in when they want to put the time in they put it in and until then it's totally up to them what they get in you know what they get out is a result of what you know they put in it's pretty common sense but i really enjoyed that because you know

these very vertical i spent 35 years in a very vertical structures of you know the corporate banking world and what have you everybody's you know fighting for that corner office because it's got two windows instead of one. All this nonsense. And I'm very, very happy to have left that world behind. There you go. And you've built your own company. And what's the future for what you see yourself doing or what the industry might be doing that are some interesting upcoming changes? Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of changes.

There's hundreds and hundreds of currency brokers out there. And one of the things that I think now looks very similar to when I started my career a long time ago in 1985 at the age of 19, when I started, there were four big British banks. And then the second Thatcher government liberalized financial services and all the foreign banks came in. And then all of a sudden there was an immense amount of competition. And then what happened was the big banks got very big, too big to fail. The small guys survived by being small and nimble and the middle just got squeezed wow that's exactly what's happening in the currency breaking world now there's there's a half a dozen very big players who are all technology based no human beings the business

model is very simple you pay for the technology once you open and then it's money coming in they don't want to employ human beings because they want to get paid every month not just a once technology and us small players as long as you know what you're doing as long as you can make a difference you can survive partly because you make a difference partly because you've got much lower overheads but it's those middle players who are getting seriously squeezed at the moment. And that's a little bit worse. Well, you hang in there, you fight it up, and get it going on. Give people your final pitch on how to do business with you,

how they can onboard with you, your.com, and all that good stuff. Yeah, so the easiest way is to connect, reach out to us by whichever method is easiest for you. You know, we're a website, you can message us via the website, there's a contact us page, there's even a WhatsApp link on there. So you can just send me a WhatsApp message, I spend half my life either on the phone or on WhatsApp these days or via the LinkedIn pages and we will respond the same day because at the end of the day, it's what we're here to do. If we can't do that, then there's

very little point in us being around. There you go. Well, thank you very much for coming on the show, Tony. It's been fun to have you on and insightful, man. I learned a lot about transferring money around the world. Now I just need to get some money to transfer. There you go. So thank you very much for coming on. Thanks

for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, 4sayschrisfoss, linkedin.com, 4sayschrisfoss, chrisfoss1 on the TikTok, and let's see, I think that was about it, chrisfossfacebook.com. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.