The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Trust and Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others by Stephen M.R. Covey, David Kasperson, McKinlee Covey, Gary T. Judd

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Trust and Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others by Stephen M.R. Covey, David Kasperson, McKinlee Covey, Gary T. Judd https://amzn.to/481PQ91 From the bestselling author of The Speed of Trust, a revolutionary new way to lead, deemed “the defining leadership book in the 21st century” (Admiral William McRaven, author of Make Your Bed) that “every parent, teacher, and leader needs” (Esther Wojcicki, author of How to Raise Successful People). We have a leadership crisis today, where even though our world has changed drastically, our leadership style has not. Most organizations, teams, schools, and families today still operate from a model of “command and control,” focusing on hierarchies and compliance from people. But because of the changing nature of the world, the workforce, work itself, and the choices we have for where and how to work and live, this way of leading is drastically outdated. Stephen M.R. Covey has made it his life’s work to understand trust in leadership and organizations. In his newest and most transformative book, Trust and Inspire, he offers a simple yet bold solution: to shift from this “command and control” model to a leadership style of “trust and inspire.” People don’t want to be managed; they want to be led. Trust and Inspire is a new way of leading that starts with the belief that people are creative, collaborative, and full of potential. People with this kind of leader are inspired to become the best version of themselves and to produce their best work. In this “beautifully written page-turner” (Amy Edmondson, Harvard Business School professor), Covey offers the solution to the future of work: where a dispersed workforce will be the norm, necessitating trust and collaboration across time zones, cultures, personalities, generations, and technology. Trust and Inspire calls for a radical shift in the way we lead in the 21st century, and Covey shows us how. About the author Stephen M. R. Covey is the New York Times and #1 Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Speed of Trust, which has been translated into 22 languages and has sold over 2 million copies worldwide. He is also the author of the newly released Wall Street Journal bestseller, Trust & Inspire: How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others, which was named as the #1 Leadership Book of 2022 by the Outstanding Work of Literature Awards. Stephen brings to his writings the perspective of a practitioner, as he is the former President & CEO of the Covey Leadership Center, where he increased shareholder value by 67 times and grew the company to become the largest leadership development firm in the world. A Harvard MBA, Stephen co-founded and currently leads FranklinCovey’s Global Speed of Trust Practice. He serves on numerous boards, including the Government Leadership Advisory Council, and he has been recognized with the lifetime Achievement Award for “Top Thought Leaders in Trust” from the advocacy group, Trust Across America/Trust Around the World. Stephen is a highly sought-after international speaker who has taught trust and leadership in 57 countries to business, government, military, education, healthcare, and NGO entities.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast. The hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

Can you hear it, Steven? Is the Iron Lady singing? I heard it. Okay. That was awesome. For some reason, it times out on my end. So welcome to the show, family and friends. We welcome the big show.

We appreciate you guys being part of the Chris Voss Show. For 16 years, we've been bringing you the CEOs, the billionaires, the multi-millionaires. I suppose we shouldn't leave them out, right? The White House presidential advisors, governors, congressmembers, U.S. ambassadors, astronauts, TV and print, Pulitzer Prize winner, journals, everybody who brings you their stories of life, things that they've, this tapestry of the journey and cathartic moments they've been through and what they've learned from them. And as I always say, this is my quote, people, stories are the owner's manual to life. And that's how we learn from each other.

That's why stories are so important. And sometimes stories are the ones that repress us. If you watched the prior show, we had some interesting epiphanies on that. Today, we have an amazing gentleman on the show. Stephen M.R. Covey joins us on the show. You may have heard of his father, Stephen Covey. And we also, I should probably get a plug in for her book as well. We'd had his sister on, Cynthia Covey Haller for Life in Crescendo, the last book that

actually had some of Stephen Covey's writings in them. So there you go. We'll be talking about his book that people have been in love with called Trust and Inspire, How Truly Great Leaders Unleash Greatness in Others. April 15th, 2022 is when it came out and leadership of course is one of my favorite topics as people know steven m r covey is the new york times and number one wall street journal best-selling author of speed of trust which is translated into 22 languages and sold over 2 million copies worldwide he is the author of the newest release Wall Street Journal book we've

aforementioned, and it was named as number one leadership book of 2022 by the outstanding work of literature awards. He brings his writings with the perspective of a practitioner and the former president and CEO of Covey Leadership Center, where he increased shareholder value by 67 times, grew the company to be the largest leadership development firm in the world. A Harvard MBA, Stephen co-founded and currently leads Franklin Covey's Global Speed of Trust

Practice. He serves on numerous boards, including the Government Leadership Advisory Council, and has been recognized with a Lifetime Achievement Award for Top Thought Leaders in Trust from the advocacy group Trust Across America. And he's highly sought after international speaker, of course, who's taught on trust and leadership in 57 countries. And now he's reached the pinnacle of his career. He's here on the Chris Voss Show. Welcome to the show, Stephen. How are you? Hey, I'm doing great. It's fabulous to be with with you chris and i have arrived being on your show

after all these things you know steven covey i remember growing up with steven covey planners when that all was you know used to be really hot in fact i think it winds up the block here in utah where i'm visiting and so i always had to have the steven covey you know schedule planners so those were imperative to it yeah that was that that was almost like the management tool at the time wasn't it in the in the 80s and 90s having those those planners and then they kind of technology changed everything they're still a core planner base but most people uh do it electronically now i think i said steven covey's i was i meant franklin yeah franklin there you go so welcome to the show.

We really appreciate you coming by. It's an honor to have you. Give us your dot coms. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Yeah, I would say go to trustandinspire.com. Trustandinspire.com. That's and A-N-D. And that will introduce you to the book.

But also there's some resources and tools there. Good place to find me. And then I'm on the social media channels on X, LinkedIn, Instagram, you know, at Stephen and Mark Covey. So love to connect with you that way. There you go. So give us a 30,000 overview of this book and what's inside. Basic premise is that the world has changed in significant and profound ways. And yet our style of leadership has not kept pace with this changing world.

Too many leaders, organizations are still kind of operating out of the old base model, what I call command and control. It's become a better version of it. It's now become a more enlightened version of command and control. But it's still out of the old paradigm of people like things. And it doesn't work very well in a new world of work where there's remote and hybrid and intentionally flexible work with these younger generations who have completely different expectations of how they want to be engaged and involved, you know, Gen Z, millennials, and with all the changing nature of work itself, be more collaborative, interdependent, service-based, with people having choices and

options. You can't really command and control your way to a high-trust culture that inspires people where they want to stay and be with you. And when they have choices and options, they can go elsewhere. Yeah. So command and control won't get you there, and you can't command and control your way to collaboration and innovation, which is what's needed to stay relevant in our world today. So the old model doesn't work very well in this new world of work. There you go. Note to self, quit barking orders at the staff. Yeah.

Yeah, people don't respond as well. I don't know that they ever really did, but it certainly doesn't work very well. And so we need a new way to lead in a new world. And in contrast to command and control, I describe it as trust and inspire. Trust and inspire. And I love that because leadership, I mean, a lot of people are trying to tune in now that leadership is a servant role, really.

Or maybe it has become a servant role. Was it always a servant role or does it kind of become that more so with the factors you mentioned, of course? It becomes more so now. I think it always has been, but we've not construed it that way. In the past, we've somewhat construed it as, hey, this is a position. You're a leader, you're in charge, you're the boss. But I think we misconstrued it. I think it's always been about serving. And that's one of the key principles interest inspires, the idea that leadership is stewardship. It's about responsibility, not rights. So it's about your influence, not your position. So our job as a leader is to put service above self-interest.

And the irony, Chris, is in the process of doing that, usually self-interest takes care of itself when we serve. And so when we see ourselves as I'm a steward, leadership is stewardship, and I try to put service above self-interest, we become better leaders. And the great thing is we get better results, better outcomes. And so I think it's really always been that way. But I think the pressures of today, the shifts and the changes are making it more important to be deliberate and intentional about making this kind of shift. And seeing ourselves as leadership, as stewardship, and not as a position, a job I had and I'm the boss. That's not going to work very well.

Not in the changing environment that you cited. Like you cited, there's so many factors here. The millennials and the Gen Zers, of course, they want more quality of work and value in life. God forbid anyone should request that. Yeah, can you imagine? And I think with 2020 and, you know, COVID, people came to realization of like valuing their life and the quality of their life better.

You know, I remember sitting down and going, it doesn't matter how much money I have in the bank, how many cars I have, how much I earn per year. All this stuff that I've, stuff that I have can disappear in a second. If I get, you know, if I respond badly to COVID, my family can disappear overnight. Many families struggle with that. And I think a lot of people sat down and said, why am I doing it? You know, and then there was the, what they called the great resignation where people went, you know what, I'm, I don't feel fulfilled or inspired. And, uh, and then they want to move. And then now we're in this environment where more baby boomers and gen xers have retired early because of covid and they're just like fuck it we're out

of here and and so now there's less people in the marketplace i don't i don't think people fully realize that there there is a there's not enough workers really when it comes down to it the market so they have a choice exactly it's it's the with all these factors that have hit us people have we've gone from what we might call multiple multiple choice to infinite choice where suddenly i can i can live here and work there and and so many people have left the workforce there's so many needs and so that's why it puts a real premium if I'm a leader at a company to attract and retain talent and to develop it and really to unleash it so that we inspire people and bring out the best in people. Why would people want to choose to be here?

I like to put it this way that people don't want to be managed, but people do want to be led. Yes. And they want to be trusted. They want to be inspired. When they are, they'll tend to stay. When they're not, they're going to go find a place where they are because they have so many choices and options today. And they want to be trusted and inspired. They also want to feel like they've got purpose and meaning. That's part of this reawakening in that transition that's gone on of, you know, what we do matters. And so I want to do something that brings a sense of purpose and contribution. And so that's why we've got to lead in a way that reflects all that and command and control, even the best version of it, the most enlightened version of it, doesn't view people that way. It views it still transactionally and not through the lens of, you know, you manage things, but you lead people.

There you go. I'm going to unchain all my employees from the wall. I guess that's what I'm going to do. Note to self. You know, you bring up a great point because I believe the data and studies show that the reason people leave a job is over leadership. You know, they don't like the lack of leadership or maybe they're managing the bad managing that's taking place with them, and they leave. Huge data on that, that a lot of times people don't leave the company. They leave a particular bad boss or the company or

the leadership at large they've lost trust in it and and they might like the company and the work that they do but they've lost trust in the leader or the leadership so they leave now the the reverse of that here's what's interesting chris is that the reverse of that can be true as well sometimes people stay with an organization and they might not be completely in love with every part of it, but they love their leader. They love their boss and how he or she treats them and how they see the potential inside of them. And so they feel trusted and inspired by them. And they often sometimes stay and deal with a lot of other things because of

that leadership. So that can cut in both directions. That's why leadership matters so much. It really does. And being the kind of leader that's a talent magnet and that not only attracts talent, but also inspires it because they want to be inspired as well. And as opposed to one that repels it because of their leadership style, where they feel like, hey, my boss is just a micromanager. And I don't, you know, why hire me if you don't trust me type of thing. So it matters today.

It definitely does more than ever. And I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. There's always going to be a glut of not having enough employees. I mean, that's not going to change. glut of not having enough employees. I mean, that's something to change. Certainly the top people, the highest performing ones, they in particular really want to be trusted. So the ones we want to keep the most especially respond to being trusted and inspired. And they have a allergic reaction when they feel like they're being commanded and controlled. There you go. Inspiring people and motivating them, you know, getting people, you see examples of that in like Steve Jobs or other big visionaries that, you know, inspire people to go do incredible

things and climb mountains, you know, all that sort of stuff. Give us a little bit of your history. We always ask the origin story of people on the show and how they got involved in what they did and talking about what they do. We may have to play into a little bit of your father's shadow on that. But tell us about what that was like growing up and how you were inspired and followed in his footsteps. Yeah, great. Well, I feel so fortunate, even blessed to have grown up with a dad.

And I'm going to say also a mom. She was my dad's equal in every way, just not as visible publicly, but had great parents. And so I feel a great sense of responsibility and stewardship, try to live up to it. But I kind of learned some of these leadership principles. We learned it in the home when you had my sister, Cynthia, on. This was just part of our family meetings and discussions. And we would talk about principles of leadership. But more thanian, you know, this was just part of our family meetings and discussions. And we would talk about principles of leadership. But more than anything, we saw it modeled from our parents. And my father was, you know, he was the real deal. The real strength of the principles that

he taught was that he really believed it and lived it. It wasn't perfect, but certainly tried. And, you know, the best thing I'd say about my father that's the most accurate tribute is that as good as he was in public, as an author, as a speaker, teacher, and he was very good. As good as he was in public, he was even better in private. As a husband to my mother, a father to us kids he was who you thought he was that is awesome yeah that's always the case right sometimes you can have someone that can just dazzle an audience on stage and then they walk backstage and they're like a different person how they treat people especially you know people that can't do anything for them and you know my father he was good on stage and he was better off stage.

And he treated everyone with great respect and he would listen. And I have so many people come up to me to this day that say, you know, your dad, he spoke at this conference and I, you know, I was the AV person and he listened to me and asked me about my family and took an interest in me and gave me great advice.

Or someone just said, I just came up to him while he was walking to his car. And I felt like his eyes penetrated into my soul. And he listened to me and gave me great advice. It happens all the time. But that's how my dad was with everyone. So that's, you know, what a blessing for me. So I feel a sense of responsibility and stewardship to try to continue in that legacy and try to live up to it. So that's a little bit of me personally.

But then my professional background is I started kind of on the business side when I came out of business school. And I focused on building the business, figuring out a leadership model, a business model that we could scale. And that's where we built the company, went around the world. And I was the CEO. And that kind of was a way of also carving out a little bit my own identity, different than my dad, who was the author of The Speaker. I was the business guy running the business, building it. But then we merged our company the covey leadership

center with franklin quest the planner people to form franklin covey and here two great companies coming together but had been arts competitors in the marketplace suddenly we merged and there was low trust because we came at it so differently and that's where i saw firsthand the high cost of low trust but then we worked at it said let's And that's where I saw firsthand the high cost of low trust. But then we worked at it. So let's build this intentionally. And we went from low to high trust together and everything changed. And I kind of came out of that whole experience saying,

I think I just found my voice, what I want to talk about. And I've done this business side, but now I feel like I have something to say. And once I felt that, that I found my this business side, but now I feel like I have something to say. And once I felt that, that I found my voice around trust, that we're underestimating trust by a factor of 10 or maybe 100, and that trust is a learnable skill, something we can build on purpose once we understand it, then suddenly I kind of lost the fear of following in my father's footsteps and just being a poor man's version of it. I suddenly felt like that's okay. I feel like I found what I want to talk about. And then I shifted and had a complete 180 career change, went from the business person to now I'm

writing and speaking once I found my voice on trust. And so then I wrote The Speed of Trust and then now this new book, Trust and Inspire. And that's kind of my world today is speaking, teaching, advising, coaching, consulting all around how to build high trust teams, high trust cultures inside of a company, but also how to be trust and inspire leaders and have the kind of leadership, have a leadership style that's relevant for our world today. There you go. And trust is so important in today's world. It's almost like a lost art. It's almost like no one ever does it. You can't trust anybody. You mentioned about how your father lived, breathed, and was the person that he put forth in a public thing. In a world where

so many people today are fake it till you make it, the hypocrites are astounding. I always joke, I think I joked in my book about how leaders think if they just put out a PR statement from the board or whatever from themselves that that's good enough. And then meanwhile, they're doing the opposite opposite value wise or morally of the value statement yeah and employees are just looking at them going yeah you're a lion thieving piece of piece of crap and and you're telling us we need to be you know moral and and trust worthy and all this stuff but you know we can't even trust you absolutely the and the disconnect is massive when people see that when you say one thing and do another, when you're not modeling and going first. And that's why such a leader won't be trusted. And that contributes to kind of this low trust environment that we're operating in. You are right, Chris. It tends to be

a low trust world. And the danger of a low trust world is that it perpetuates. Distrust is contagious and everyone becomes more careful, cautious, guarded. And they start to wonder, gosh, if the leader I know is two-faced, one thing in public, another thing in private, and not walking the talk, living the values, then maybe if this leader is, maybe others are too. They start to wonder and suspicion creeps in. So that's why in this trust and inspire, the very first, what I call stewardship, responsibility that leaders have is to model, modeling.

That's who you are. And that's your character. It's your competence because people do look to that and and when they see you know a hypocrite instead of a model and again a model doesn't mean you're perfect because in a sense we all fall short we're all striving we're all on the journey it just means that you really believe what you say that you value and you're trying your best to live it and you're trying to lead out and going first on the very things you're asking of others. So if you're asking people to, hey, let's increase respect, then be the first to demonstrate

and show respect. You know, leaders go first. If you're asking people to be more open and transparent, then you lead out and go first in being open and transparent. You you lead out and go first in being open and transparent. You want more understanding and empathy? Be the first to be empathic and just try to understand and listen to people. Leaders go first. They model the behavior.

When they do that, then people say, I can trust this person. And also that inspires people. Hey, they are who they say they are. And it has the opposite effect when someone says one thing and does another, and they're kind of blatantly misaligned. It's one thing when you're striving and fall short. It's another thing when, like you say, it's a statement you put out, but it's not really who you are. And that feels misaligned

and that feels incongruent. And I don't trust that and it certainly doesn't inspire. So if we want to lead through a trust and inspire approach, we got to start with modeling. And that's really who we are. It's our character and our competence. And that, you know, who we are in a sense even matters more than what we do. What we do matters too, but who we are in a sense even matters more than what we do what we do matters too but who we are is the starting point for it there you go which means i'm screwed because i'm a horrible person so there's that well you can be authentic and real you know again i don't want to person i don't want to elevate this to where it says you got to be perfect you got to be yourself well i'm that too but i mean that's aside from the narcissist i'm perfect yeah other than that i mean they say humility is my greatest

trait uh so there you go you know you you remind me of a phrase i remember i think i was reading general math this book or one of those other great leaders i think we've had some of them on the show about officers eating last and one of the in one of the standards great leaders, I think we've had some of them on the show, about officers eating last and one of the standards, you know, setting that example of servant leadership, of creating a sense of unity, loyalty, and that has to come from you. You have to be that beacon that shines that forth where people go, okay, this is the game we're playing. This is the culture we're building. This is the organization we're going to have.

But if the leader, you know, the man on the white horse doesn't set that standard, then the rest of the organization is going to go, I don't know, we're just doing whatever he does. If he's full of it, we're full of it too, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. That can, it really is vital. And this is where, and it can be in the little things. But I saw there was a CEO of a company that they were going through leadership training, got one of those 360 feedback reports of,

you know, where they assess themselves. And then they heard from their direct reports and the like, and this leader, you know, he went first and he actually, he actually took his outcome, you know, and he publicly displayed it on the walls outside of the office in the company for people to see, including his action plan to take steps to improve and get better. And he was just so open and transparent and real that people kind of saying, hey, he said, look, here's where I came back. I'm doing really well in this area.

And I've got weak challenges here. So here's my plan to work on this. And he kind of just acknowledged it, was open, was transparent, even vulnerable. And what that does, it tells everyone that, hey, he's learning too. He's on the journey. And it makes it safe for me to do the same. When I see someone else doing it, especially when that person is in a position of influence. They don't have to kind of pretend that they're perfect.

They're authentic and vulnerable. I just was with Dr. Leslie John. She's a Harvard Business School professor, and she's doing research on vulnerability and how it builds trust. And she kind of frames it this way. Here's the dilemma for a leader. Do I reveal or do I conceal about me and my shortcomings or weaknesses? And she says, it's always within parameters. You don't want a leader that's revealing everything and being too vulnerable about too much because people will lose confidence in that. Mm-hmm. More open, more transparent, more vulnerable, is perceived as more real, more authentic, more relatable, and I trust him more. Then the leader that tries to kind of put on an air, put on fronts that I'm in charge, I'm in control, and everything's perfect,

there's nothing wrong. The person that doesn't conceal, that doesn't reveal anything, just conceals it all, doesn't build trust near as fast as the person that appropriately reveals. And so being, you know, authentic and vulnerable is the kind of thing we want from our leaders today. We also want them to have humility and courage, both. The combination is what's really powerful you know a leader that is both humble and courageous you know if they're only humble not courageous then that they could get stepped on if they're really courageous not humble they they're stepping on everybody else that combination is we really long for that and also one that is empathic, leads with understanding, listening. Someone like Satya Nadella at Microsoft.

A remarkable leader. Yeah, he is. But he leads with a lot of listening, with empathy, very humble, as well as courageous. I mean, he's a visionary, but he's also very humble. And he models the behavior. He goes first. And he also has a growth mindset for everyone he believes that they can become a better version of themselves they're all changing and and he and he and he asked his leaders to have a growth mindset for the people that they

lead and so if you have an entire culture believing that people have greatness inside of them they tend to live up to it you know that's the's the kind of leader, you know, I mean, that Nadella is a great public high profile example. There's a lot of examples that at a day-to-day level of just your team leader or someone in a home or in a community that are really trust and inspire leaders that they're modeling. They're going first. They're extending trust.

They're inspiring others by who they are and by connecting with people with a sense of caring and belonging and then connecting people to purpose and meaning. And suddenly people are feeling inspired. And so we respond to this kind of leadership, especially in a cynical, low trust world. There you go. It becomes more valuable and more of a premium. Some of the things in aspects you're talking about, like being vulnerable, being open and stuff, plays into something you talked about in your book. You had this trusting how you lead circle and practice accountability. So showing that you're

self-accountable as a leader, I think is really important. I used to call it showing that you're self-accountable as a leader i think is really important i used to call it showing that i was a good judge and then i could and then i could rule appropriately and and that you know i wasn't i wasn't parlay to my certain interests or that i was fair and balanced but self-accountability is a big thing clarify expectations and grow people you've been you've been talking about growing people as well. You know, I learned very early on in my CEO career that I was not the arbitrator of all the great ideas in the world. And very quickly, you know, after smacking a few home runs of companies, I was like, you know what? I need help because I need some new ideas up in here and I'm fresh out. And I've been fresh out for 35 years

now but you know that's growing your employees inspiring them you know one of the things I used to realize when I was growing up I grew up with the USSR you know cowering on the desk with the nuclear bombs of course those you know those iron nuclear deaths that would protect you of course you probably did too I remember looking at capitalism versus communism and to me the conclusion that i came to was capitalism was the inspiring of the human spirit it was the motivation that anything is possible you can do anything you can become anything you can be an immigrant in this country you can become a you know you you can become on some someone's head of google right now you know steve jobs was an immigrant one generation down and so we're communists we're just kind of like no everyone's the same everyone gets handed the same that's it no one's

special no one's whatever unless you're in leadership but and i thought you know those are the real differences of it and so a lot of the things that you talked about is is that inspiration to ignite the human spirit to grow people etc etc that's beautiful i love it i love that your definition i just made it up i didn't for what capitalism can be really the inspiring of the human spirit well the the idea that that there's potential there's greatness inside of people it might be dormant it might might not be seen. But if you kind of have that mindset that it's there, you can unleash it. I begin the book with the story of Death Valley, California. You know, hottest place on earth, world's highest recorded temperature, 134 degrees.

It's hot. It was also dry in Death Valley. The average rainfall is just one inch a year. So nothing grows there. It's too hot, too dry. But in 2005, in the winter of 2005, for some unexplained reasons, six inches of rain fell in just a very brief period. Sure enough, a short time later, these wildflowers pop up and carpet the entire valley. It turns out it wasn't dead after all, it was just dormant. But the seeds were there, but they needed the right conditions to rise.

If you view leadership in a similar way, that as leaders, we're like gardeners trying to create conditions for the seeds to flourish and to grow. They might be lying dormant. They might not be seen, but the life and the power is in the people, just like the life and the power is in the seed. If we view people that way, see it, that can inspire the human spirit. And the idea of inspire means exactly that, to breathe life into, to breathe life into relationships, into teams, into cultures, and to light that fire within somebody. Because when that fire gets lit, then suddenly they're inspired. They don't need the day-to-day carrot and stick motivation only. They have a greater purpose and it can burn on for a long time and they can light other

fires from their fire being lit. And so if we see our role, one of our responsibilities, stewardship as a leader is to inspire those about us, not necessarily by being a visionary Steve Jobs type. It'd be nice to be that, but most of us aren't. But we can all inspire by connecting with people through a sense of caring and belonging and becoming inspired ourselves so that our fire is lit, that can light another fire. And then tying people up also to purpose and the meaning

and the contribution. Those are all things we can get good at. So everyone can inspire. It's a learnable skill and it's lighting that fire within someone. But you start with by believing that there is greatness inside of people. That paradigm, that mindset matters. Definitely. I mean, it's the ability for people to grow and change things. I mean, it's kind of a moniker of America when it really comes down to it. The Statue of Liberty, bring me your tired and, you know, the things that you can achieve.

And that's why people, you know, dream of America, dream of being successful in business. You know, they want that sort of inspiration. Years ago, when I first got my big CEO office, a big desk, I had some sort of picture I picked up that was one of those motivational photos from the 80s or whatever they were, 90s. And basically what it imparted to me was you have to earn your title every day. You can, you know, somebody can give you a title, but you have to earn it every day. And it reminded me that I had to go out and earn through, I love your word. I've always called it servant leadership, but I like, I like your word of being a steward of it because that, that pronounces some responsibility as opposed to, I don't know, I'm going to serve you fries. I don't know. I like it better, but that way.

What are some ways, one of the things that you talk about in the book is, I saw with COVID things being a real problem with leadership. I used to like to go around my office, and I always called it touching people. This is back in the 90s. But basically, touch their hearts and minds. Inspire them. And check in with them. You know, check in with your employees and say, how's things going with you, man? Are you cool?

And ask the family, you know, checking in and letting them know that you're just not showing up at their desk going, do you have your TPS reports? You know. Right. From the Office space movie but one of the problems you have with you know remote working and leadership is how do you reach through that zoom call and inspire and motivate people it's it's a really dead program to 2d model how do you how do you inspire more can leaders inspire more in this in this weird environment of working zoom calls and everything. Yeah, yeah. Do I have to go out to people's homes and just knock on them and sit on the couch? Yeah. Well, like you say, the face-to-face is easier.

It's your proximate. You're there. It's more natural. It's easier to have those little side conversations and just take them aside and say, hey, how are you really doing? But I'll tell you what, the same principles still apply. It's just that in a virtual or remote setting, we have to be far more intentional and deliberate about it because it doesn't just happen easily.

You have to plan for it. You have to think about it and say, hey, I want to connect with my people. So here's what I've seen some leaders do. You know, they hold their weekly team meeting, and then they tell someone in advance, you know, maybe text them and say, hey, after the Zoom meeting, hey, stay on a few minutes. I want to just talk to you. And then everyone leaves after the meeting, and that person stays on,

and they say, hey, I just want to check in, seeing how you're doing. And you should probably warn them that you're going to check in. Cause usually if they want you to stay after, you know, that. Yeah. No, that's. Yeah. You might just say, stay on. Just want to just catch up with you.

Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You don't want to have them be worrying the whole meeting, you know? Oh no. Am I gone? Yes. You know, you can say it's a positive.

Yeah. No, but, but, but you're just showing that you care. meeting you know oh no am i gone yes you know you can say it's a positive yeah you know but but but you're just showing that you care you're demonstrating that just checking in seeing how you're doing that's one thing that some people did better during covid is they started to see each other as human beings when they would have zoom calls and their pets were sometimes behind them and and their kids and stuff and it wasn't perfect but they started to see each other as hey it's not just someone at work they're they're a dad or a mom and they're a whole person and and i'm seeing a different side of them i had a president of a university say i began to see my people as human beings and not just cogs in the wheel that worked for me. I started to

see them differently. So seeing the whole person. So you want to look at part of the trust inspire approach is that you start with a paradigm, a mindset of how I view people, how I view leadership. I see people as whole people, meaning they have a body, a heart, a mind, and a spirit that have greatness inside of them. And so if I see them that way, then I can maybe help them come to see themselves that way and also help maybe to develop that and unleash that kind of person. And that's going to earn their trust and their inspiration. They're going to want to stay when they feel like I believe in them. I see who they can be and they're seeing, they're developing that with me compared to, you know, a person that just views me functionally and for what I can do for them. They don't really care about me. So the principles of demonstrating care and concern for

people, that's true in person. It's true on site. It's true virtually, but it's a little bit easier to kind of demonstrate and show it in person. A little bit harder to do it virtually, but that's why you have to be more intentional and deliberate about it and find the appropriate ways and to show that you care and to build a sense of belonging and to connect with people through purpose and other things. But you can do this. Leaders can do this. And we spend a big part of the book, the whole inspiring chapter of how we can inspire as leaders. If this is a learnable skill, it's not just for the charismatic like Steve Jobs, it's for each of us, that inspiring others is a learnable skill. Everyone can inspire.

And it's a stewardship I have as a leader to inspire those about me. I've never really thought of that that way. Then how do we inspire? And so that's where we say, well, you inspire when you model the behavior, modeling. That's your first stewardship. You inspire when you trust people, trusting. That's what you read about the expectations, accountability, grow people. That's trusting. That inspires them. In fact, I'll say this. To be trusted is the most inspiring form of human motivation. It brings the very best out in people when I feel trusted. I know it does for me.

I bet it does for you too, Chris. When someone trusts you, believes in you, you want to live up to that. You feel inspired by that. So you're already halfway there when you do the first two stewardships, which is modeling and trusting. But this last stewardship, inspiring, there's three stewardships, model to model, to trust, to inspire. When you connect with people through a sense of caring and belonging.

And you have to be deliberate about it. And then when you connect people to purpose and to meaning and to contribution, to significance, to mattering, to making a difference, that will inspire. And those are things we can kind of get better at as leaders. We can learn how to connect with people through a sense of caring and belonging and how to connect people to purpose and to meaning and get better at as leaders. We can learn how to connect with people through a sense of caring and belonging and how to connect people to purpose and to meaning and get better at that. That can inspire. I'll give you a little example of the latter one, the connecting to purpose. So where I worked with Pepperdine University, great organization, their school of business,

the Graziato School of Business, they had a purpose. Their purpose originally was to produce leaders who are best in the world. That's a good purpose, but probably anyone could have that. They changed one word. They went from producing leaders who are best in the world to our purpose is to produce leaders who are best for the world. Change one word and inspire to everyone. From the professor to the staff member to the janitor, that we're all about producing best for the world leaders. In a cynical world, to have that kind of noble aspiration, best for the world,

leaders that are going to make a difference, And anyone can produce best in the world. How about best for the world? Everyone was inspired. They connected people to purpose and to contribution and to meaning and inspired everyone. And so it's a learnable skill to make these connections. And you might not be the president, the CEO that has that lever to pull, but still you can find ways to overlap what matters to someone with what matters to the company and try to show there's an overlap in our purpose here. And so the work that you're doing matters to people. And maybe it can matter to you if I understand what excites you, what you want to do. When I demonstrate I'm that kind of leader, I'm listening to my people. I'm trying to understand what they want to work on, what they're doing. And I care about them. Suddenly I'm overlapping and connecting.

I'm co-purposing with somebody. So that's the idea. It's just that this is a learnable skill to learn to inspire others, and it is a stewardship that we have as a leader. I'm still learning mine. We go around the office and I just tell people, hey, you're all going to be inspired around here or there are going to be layoffs, damn it. So I'm working on it. It's like the expression that fire range will continue until morale improves.

Exactly. That's where it's all over. You got it. You know, one of the things that when I interview leaders and talk to leaders, you know, I'll ask them, what's your leadership style? And I'm always shocked when people like have no idea what their behavior is in leadership. They're like, what's your leadership style? And I'm always shocked when people have no idea what their behavior is in leadership. They're like, what? What advice would you give to emerging leaders who are just beginning to shape their leadership style? Other than reading your book, of course. Yeah. Well, first of all, it's a great thing to think about it.

I love your question. Because most people haven't really thought about it. And I view trust and inspire as kind of a meta style, an overarching style. Because someone can, you know, you got to be you. And it's not, you know, try to have everyone be these lockstep trust and inspire leaders that are all the same. That's not going to work. You want to bring your uniqueness to this, your authenticity to it. But what's your meta style you're overarching are you do you see the potential and the greatness in people and see your job as a leader is to unleash that or you know i'm trying i'm a manager i'm trying to control people and

keep them in line you know so i'm thinking you know are you more like satya nadela that sees greatness have a growth mindset for everyone i'm going to unleash this or am i a micromanager trying to make sure i've got everything in order controlling so i think that kind of thinking largely of what i'm what how do i view people as whole people with greatness and i'm trying to unleash it or more narrowly of you know that hey you got to kind of manage people and control them contain them at least and then how you know do i view people as just economic beings of you just got to pay them that's all they care about is money or do i see them as also having a heart wanting to care and connect and having a mind they want to grow and develop and and and contribute or and having a spirit, wanting to care and connect and having a mind, they want to grow and develop and contribute. And having a spirit, they want to matter, make a difference.

So I asked some of those big questions of how I view people, how I view leadership. And do I view leadership as it's a position? Or do I view leadership as influence? I'm a steward. and I'm trying to serve. I'm trying to put service above self-interest and caring above competing. And I think those are the kinds of questions you ask about how I view people, how I view leadership.

And then you have people become more aware of, what's your style? Because here's what I found, Chris. For many leaders, they have good intent. They care about people. They would like to, you know, grow people in getting results. But oftentimes people's style gets in the way of their intent. It overrides it.

And I might have good intent, but you wouldn't know it to watch me. The road to hell is paved, right? Yeah, it's like me. Like me with my family. When we go on a family vacation, we're at the airport. I get all freaked out

because I've seen everything that can go wrong at airports. And I've got five kids. I'm trying to organize them. And suddenly, here I really believe in my kids, think they're capable, responsible. You wouldn't know it to watch me just bark out orders at the airport, commanding and controlling their every move. You know, everyone go to the gate. No, no, no, no. You're not going to go eat.

You're not going to go shop because I'm just worried they won't get back on time. I'm treating them as if they have no initiative, no responsibility, just this command and control dad. So here we are going on vacation and nobody's having fun because I'm all freaked out. My style is getting in the way of my intent, you know, on a personal level. And oftentimes at work, you know, the quarter ends, we got to hit the numbers. And suddenly our style gets in the way of our intent and we're just barking out the orders and the like. And so just becoming self-aware, how am I showing up to people? You know, I might think that I see potential in them.

Do they think that I see their potential? You know, and do they see me as unleashing it? Or do they see me as trying to control them? How do I show up to them? But I think thinking about leadership style is a good thought exercise. How do I want to be remembered? How do I want to show up? So I ask, I kind of reverse it and say, think of someone in your life. So I could ask this of you, Chris, or any of our listeners or viewers. Think of someone in your life who believed in you, maybe believed in you more than you believed in yourself at the time, who showed confidence in you. Maybe they had more confidence than you had, who took a chance on you, maybe gave you an

opportunity that you didn't feel ready for, but they said, no, you got this. You can do this. And I got your back. For me, it was my dad. I also had a boss named John Walsh that he believed I had more potential than I ever saw in myself. And he helped me come to see it in myself. I'm forever grateful for him. So you think about such a person in your life, and I'll bet most of us, if we think long enough about it, have at least someone, maybe multiple people. You think about such a person and that kind of belief in you, that kind of leadership. Did you need to be managed with such a leader? Probably not, because you were being led. You know, you brought out the best in you.

You probably grew and gave your best version of yourself, brought that out. You know, so if, you know, most of us have had such a leader. And so I have you reflect upon that. And now turn it around and say, what if you could become that kind of leader for others, just like someone has been for you? And maybe rather than trying to take on everyone, try to just with one relationship. What if you could transform one relationship

and become a trust and inspire leader to that person, just like someone has been to you. And if you can do it with one, you can do it with another and then with another. So this is a better way to lead. It's a better way to live. It's a better way to approach everything. And it's what I would advise is to all of us is to think about who has trusted and inspired you, what that did for you, and what if you could become this person for another? Just start with one. It's a great way of thinking about your leadership legacy, your leadership style. Yeah. And I love how you portray it and it's inspiring how you deliver it. When you inspire the people, when you enlighten the world,

when you make a difference in people's lives. Sometimes you don't realize the difference you're making, but someone will come up and say, hey, you made a difference in my life. And, you know, you go, wow, this is, it's kind of cyclical, you know. Yeah. It comes back to you and reward you and you go, wow, I actually did something. Thanks to Darren Hunter, the best podcaster out of the great guests. Cheers. We couldn't do it without our great guests, of course. So stuff like that inspires you.

As we round out the hour, anything more you want to tease from the book or any messages you want to send out to people? Yeah. I would say this, that I mentioned the three stewardships, modeling, trusting, inspiring. Let me say this on trusting, because we talked a little bit about inspiring. Here's what's interesting, is that you could have two trustworthy people working together, and yet no trust between them, even though they're both trustworthy, if neither person is willing to extend trust to the other, to give it. So if the outcome we want is trust, a high trust team, a high trust culture,

yes, to get that, we have to be trustworthy. And we earn that. Trust is earned by demonstrating our character and our competence. But it's not enough to merely be trustworthy because you could have trustworthy people working together but no trust between them. So in addition to being trustworthy as people, as leaders, we also need to be trusting, be willing to give that trust to extend it. Not blindly. I'm not just saying blindly trust anyone and everyone. In a smart way, with good judgment, with expectations, with accountability. But we need to lead out in extending more trust to other people. Because when you give trust,

people receive it and they return it. When you withhold it, they withhold it. And right now we're in a low trust world where everyone's withholding trust. And that perpetuates itself. We've got to break that cycle. it. And right now we're in a low trust world where everyone's withholding trust and that perpetuates itself. We've got to break that cycle. What if you as a leader could be a trust and inspire leader that models, that trust and extends trust to people and inspires them? Then that could become a virtuous upward spiral that can give an example of a better way to lead, even in a low trust world.

And then people can see that this trust and inspire is not just a nice theory, but it's really practical. You get better results and you grow the people. Everyone's happier and they're more innovative and more creative. And so someone needs to go first. Leaders go first. So be the first to model, be the first to trust, be the first to inspire. And if you don't wait on your boss, don't wait on others, go first.

And so that would be my main, hopefully, takeaway for anyone. Be a model, not a critic. Go first. And you can live this approach to leadership and find that it's a better way to lead. And you're going to get better results, better outcomes. And then suddenly you can maybe inspire others to do the same and bring about the change that you would like to see. That'd be my, maybe my takeaway is, is that leaders go first in all three stewardships, modeling, trusting, and inspiring. There you go. You've inspired our audience, Anthony.

Thanks for the message. Excellent message. There we go. And I like what you said, because that can be transposed into relationships as well, or marriages, you know, trust. Precisely. You know, I've seen so many people that I don't trust who I'm married to. And it's like, well, you know, did you i've seen so many people that i don't trust who i'm married to and it's like well you know did you ever trust them no right and you know whatever trauma thing

is but you know you're you're you're like if you don't trust each other it's gonna work out you know i'm gonna work out that the very definition of a bad relationship is low trust i don't trust we don't trust each other yeah and and and again sometimes i'm not i'm acknowledging there might be some situations where it's not smart to trust someone because they've consistently proven that they're not trustworthy time and time again and i also know sometimes when we've been burned like that before it could become a filter that you just can't trust people and and so you lead with distrust and find all the reasons why you can't trust someone instead of leading with trust and finding all the reasons why you can so i'll tell

you just a quick ending story on this of i just was in metzengen germany met with hugo boss and the global fashion retailer and met with daniel greeter the ceo of hugo boss now they're a 17 000 person organization so this is a big global company retail stores and catalogs all over the world and the like and and he came in as the new ceo about two and a half years ago and when he came came in, he's brand new to the company. People don't know him. He doesn't know them. The first week on the job, he meets with his top 100 leaders.

And here's what he says to them. He says, team, we have a choice. You don't know me. I don't know you. We haven't worked together. Here's the choice as I see it. We could spend the next year deciding whether we can trust each other. You learning about me, me learning about you.

We can decide whether we can trust each other. We could do that. And we'll waste a year. Or we can decide from day one, from today, to trust each other. Because we hire great people at Hugo Boss. So we start with trust. So I choose the latter. And I want everyone here to know something.

I trust you. Wow. I'm asking you, trust me back. Together we can build a great culture built on trust fast from day one. Now, look, Chris, this was not the cultural norm there in Germany to just start off with trust. It's a very more traditional, suspicious type culture and environment. This was disarming to people.

It was almost shocking to some, but very refreshing, disarming. But guess what? They responded to that invitation and they reciprocated and returned the trust fast and they started to move fast. And they built a five-year plan that has every metric in it from growth and market share and profitability and brand awareness, all these metrics. So they're two years into this plan, and yet they are in year four at achieving all the metrics of the plan. They're moving at the speed of trust. And nothing is as fast as the speed of trust, but someone had to go first.

And in this case, the leader went first. And he was not only trustworthy, he was trusting, and he accelerated the creation of trust. So that's what I mean. That was, I think that was a smart trust because his whole premise was we hire great people here and I'm going to start with trust until you give me reasons why I shouldn't trust you. Not the other way around.

There you go. I love that concept. And, and plus you're setting the standard. I mean, that's true leadership. I understand. I understand it up front. You mean, that's true leadership. Setting the standard. Setting the standard up front.

You know, a lot of corporate CEOs, I don't know what the average turnover for a corporate CEO in the, like the fortune 500 is, but I know it's short, like what, three, four years? Yeah. Four, I think it's four or less. Yeah. And so you don't have a lot of time. You know, we've had CEOs that have come on and they're like, you know, you don't, you don't have a lot of time.

You, you burn through it really quickly, you know, starting R and D projects, you don't, you don't have a lot of time because you're not going to see whatever you implement. And you know, doing what he did is a way to really speed that up and do it. And I think a lot of people don't really think about the culture they set or they create when they, when they come into the thing. Absolutely. And he was very mindful of this will create a high trust culture. And that will be part of our secret sauce. Yeah. How we're going to move fast. And also, here's another way it

wasn't a blind trust. They built expectations around the trust being given, and they agreed to a process of accountability around the trust being given. So it was, we trust you with these expectations, this accountability built in. But when you do that, you're really empowering people. And then suddenly the agreement you built, that can govern. You don't have to hover over and micromanage them because you built an agreement with expectations and accountability.

You model it, you know, that you hold yourself accountable to that. Like you were saying at the outset there, Chris, that, you know, self accountability, that you're modeling this. And then when you trust people with expectations and accountability that you build together with them, you're building that agreement. And then the agreement governs. And I don't have to hover over and micromanage every move because I built an agreement and they're being accountable to the agreement we built together. And by involving them in this together, instead of just dictating, command and control leader just dictates the agreement. Here's what you're going to do and

here's how I'll judge you. I trust and inspire built it together. Here's what we're trying to do together. Here's how you can judge yourself against that standard. That's more powerful. There's more buy-in. There's more commitment, more involvement, and they'll perform better. The research shows three times better at getting the job done. You hit the numbers, but you also grow the person. You build the culture. Yeah.

If you appeal to the human spirit, the human's nature to want to improve the quality of everything. I mean, it's exponential. There's no limit to it. That's what we've kind of seen in our world and how it is. And of course, the darkness, there seems to be no limit to that either sometimes. Thank you very much for coming on the show, Stephen. We've really been inspired and motivated. People are just loving having you on the show. Give us your final thoughts on people to pick out the book and.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah. Again, go to trustandinspire.com, and the and is spelled out A-N-D instead of the ampersand. And I'd love to, I think for those that are interested in leadership, those that are interested in really relationships, and that could

be at work or at home, I think you'll find this is a paradigm shifting book because it really kind of says, look, we got to catch leadership up to where the world is. And too much of our leadership scripting and modeling comes out of the old model. It's not very relevant in a new world. And I think people become more self-aware and they'll also learn that we are not our style, that we can shift and change our style. Maybe I've been command and control in the past, but that doesn't define me, who I am. I can re-script and become trust and inspire going forward. So I'm relevant. As Marshall Goldsmith said, what got us here won't get us there. So maybe what got me to where I am today has been okay.

Maybe I was command and control, but it's not going to take me where I need to go tomorrow. So this Trust and Inspire book, I think, can help give you a roadmap. It's really practical and tangible. And hopefully, I think you'll find it interesting and engaging and fun too. So trustandspire.com is probably the best way to access it. There you go. Thank you very much, Stephen, for coming on the show and inspiring everybody fun too. So trustinspire.com is probably the best way to access it. There you go. Thank you very much, Stephen, for coming on the show and inspiring everybody, man.

We really appreciate it. You're welcome, Chris. Thanks for hosting me. Love what you're doing with The Chris Foss Show. It's terrific. Thank you. And we love having great guests like you on the show. Folks, order it up wherever fine books are sold.

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