The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unjust Gaggle of Gavels: Volume 1 by William Brooke Webb Jr.

Episode Date: February 21, 2026

Unjust Gaggle of Gavels: Volume 1 by William Brooke Webb Jr. https://www.amazon.com/Unjust-Gaggle-Gavels-William-Brooke-ebook/dp/B0G57T6L8V When caution and conscience collide: the true crime story of Oklahoma’s medical industry allowed Dax Laboratories to destroy a whistleblower’s business and life. Meet William Brooke Webb, Jr.: an ambitious entrepreneur in Oklahoma who built a successful medical reference laboratory (QSS Labs) to handle advanced blood testing for doctors. He was (and still is) good at what he does; as such, his business grew rapidly, serving multiple doctors’ offices and employing many, with over 50 employees under his direct management. When a salesman for Henry Schein, Inc. shared in the business’s success, he grew closer to Webb. They worked together, profiting from the lab orders from QSS-and also began a friendship. However, the appearance of a friendship or a symbiotic working relationship soon fell away when the truth came to light: the salesman and his wife had secretly created a competing lab (DAX Laboratories) and allegedly sabotaged QSS Labs by inflating reagent prices, spreading rumors of fraud, and steering doctors away under non-disclosure agreements. William reported the unethical behavior at Henry Schein, Inc., but he wasn’t protected. Instead, he endured a years-long civil suit that negatively affected his life and business. In Unjust Gaggle of Gavels, William Webb offers a tell-all cautionary tale that educates and informs regarding the litany of liabilities that were unleashed by Henry Schein, Inc. on its number one customer in the Oklahoma Market. Meant for an audience of attorneys, physicians, business professionals, and students with a pre-law or higher education background, Unjust Gaggle of Gavels seeks to expose corruption in the medical world and provide a sense of empowerment to the victims under its thumb.

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Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education role. rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. I'm folks, and Voss here from the Chris Voss Show.com. Ladies, young and there, ladies, since that makes official, welcome to 16 years. Excuse me, 2,800 episodes of the Chris Foss show.

We bring you the most amazing people on the show as one of the oldest broadcast, still, oldest podcast broadcasts, still broadcasting. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Voss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. You know, we had an amazing young man on the show with us today. We're going to get into it with him. William Brooke Webb Jr. joins us on the show.

He's the author of two books that are out right now, volume one and two, unjust gaggle of gables. We're going to get into it with him and find out what this is all about, what his story is, and how maybe he can inspire you to do the good work he has. William Webb is an innovator in the medical laboratory field where he built multiple locations, and led a team of more than 50 employees. As a whistleblower against Henry Shine Incorporated, he faced retaliation that threatened his business and livelihood.

His book, Unjust Gaggle of Gavils, exposes the unchecked practices and liabilities he endured, offering readers both an informative account and cautionary tale. His work seeks to empower others to stand up, share their stories, and survive similar attacks while shedding light on ongoing challenges in the Oklahoma Medical Laboratory space. Welcome to show, William. How are you, sir?

Very blessed. Thank you for coming on the show with us. Give us any dot coms, any websites, any social media, where we want people to get in touch with you over the book. I don't have any of that right now. There's some that are being hosted by others, but to get me directly, I don't have any of that. All right.

Do you want to give an email? You can give an email. I don't know people do that in your case. Will Webb 47. at ATT.net. It's W-I-L-W-E-B-V-V-V-7 at AT-T-D-Net. People can reach out to you on the book. They love to be able to contact authors in the book

and find out more, of course, getting in touch. So, William, give us the $30,000 over you. What's in your first volume, Unjust Gaggle of Gavils. Well, in the first volume, you will see kind of like the vertical integration of how big business can work together against the small business like myself. whenever things don't turn out the way that they would like it to perceive, then they can change the outcome, pretty simple. And I thought I was doing right by exposing something, and it turned out to cost me my livelihood and my business in the end.

Wow. Wow. So give us a deeper dive into this. Tell us who are the players involved there in this book and maybe a little bit of overview on how it unfolded. Well, what it does is it explains? the kind of the nature how I was transitioning into a different type of medical where I used to be in the sleep black field and then as I transformed into urine drug toxicology testing I was needing some new equipment and that is whenever I found Travis Matthews at Henry Shine I had who's Henry Shine? Give us some details on that too. Henry Shine is just a medical company that supplies medical supplies. A lot of people know them as dental supplies, but they do work in the medical field as well. And so I was needing some equipment, and Travis Matthews was, he was great. He got me what I needed. So as far as

getting me what I needed, he was, he's a heck of a salesman. He did a top job. I had another friend that could have tried to get it for me and he was faster. So I chose to go to Travis because he, he got it done quick. So give him his credit for what he was. So what happens then? So as I start growing my urine drug talks business. Travis and I start co-marketing, seeing how he benefits from as my business grows, that he gets more sales, reagents, things like that. I buy more equipment. I spent millions of dollars with Henry, Henry Shine over the years. Travis obviously commissioned from that. Yes, we had a great life. There was times I was making $100,000 a day. There's good money in medical more than I ever made in the sleep industry. So I was very blessed for that.

So blessed for Travis, bless for what he brought me. What I didn't expect, I didn't expect him and his wife to open a competing lab and then to create NDAs and make lies about me and where I'm at today. And basically, that's what's great about the book. It's a 44-page analogy of where I feel that it went. And then the rest are just legal documentation of showing the facts and evidence of why it's transpired the way it did. and it just explains the rabbit wormhole and how big business kind of controls everything. Yeah.

You know, I learned years ago when I first became highly successful, we built several multi-million our companies running at the same time. And I learned that the rich don't do war anymore like you would do in the dark ages, you know, where they just come abroad your house or your village and steal your crap. The rich do war through the courts. and, you know, people just sue each other, a lot of shakedown lawsuits and things. And that's how I learned what the next level was. And so you're right.

So you built this business. How many years is it, and as have you been doing at this point? And do I have an understanding right that basically this gentleman probably saw how much money you were making and went, we should just cut him out and then start our own thing and got a copy of business. is that 100% and that's and that's the great thing about it is it the great thing about this book that it is completely unredacted the depositions for shay matthews is in there from Travis Matthews is in there so the fact that there's no lies I mean the truth is out there I mean they knew that they had me where they wanted me because they had Henry Sean to attack me

I mean who would blame them let's be real I mean if you had that opportunity I mean So again, that explains why they're still in business today. And this attack happened years ago, over five years. I've been out of business since 2019. Wow. And so, yeah, I mean, technically, they've been in the lab space almost longer than I have. So they were working at Henry Shine and working with you. They set up their own competing business with you.

Does the business compete with Henry Shine? Or are they buying from Henry Shine to service their business? like you were using Henry Shine to service yours. Yes, sir. Okay. Basically being doing the same thing that I'm doing or using some medical company to get their supplies. Wow.

And you went to Henry Shine and you said, hey, these guys are mucking about here, probably against their contracts for non-compete or something on their whatever. You know, they're working tool systems here. Yeah. And you try and warn them. Is that correct?

Oh, yes. So, yeah, I warned them. And basically Henry Sean just played the, they played both angles. And what I mean is they pretty much committed a federal crime, but they kept it in a civil lawsuit. And you know much about law, like you just said, if you're not in the right spot, nothing's going to happen anyhow. So they basically kept it.

And when you look at the final outcome of it, the total charge was $17,000 and change that they charged Travis Matthews for all these years of fighting them. court. I mean, it makes no sense. I mean, it's, it just screams. And that's what's great about it. If you read it, you're just going to be blown away yourself. You would never, nobody would ever believe that it's possible to happen. And that's what's great about it. That's why you've got to read it for yourself. It's really. Yeah. I mean, the, the things I saw in court, because a lot of times in court, you're saying they're waiting for your case. And my last name is Voss. So I'm always at the end of the docket. They always alphabetized the docket. But it's always been an interesting learning journey. neat to sit in the pews and and watch people. There were some times where we appealed cases and then I had some speeding tickets with my BMW and so I appealed cases. And in Utah, it's a fairly small state.

So they would put me in the appellate courts would end up being like domestic violence court or something. So I ended up sitting watching domestic violence court and I'd be at the end of the docket. So I'd watch like all these people come in with all these things and come there for a speeding ticket appeal. And I had these evil attorneys that taught me a lot. And these guys were, these guys were pure evil. But they were also defenders of, you know, your rights.

I mean, there are certain rights were given under the Constitution. And you play in those rights until they say it's against the law. And so if it's in law, play it. You know, you have a right to ask for evidence and you have right for discovery, but you can make discovery pretty ugly if you want. So anyway, they taught me these things just to appeal to. tickets into infinity. And by the time you end up losing somewhere near the Supreme Court in appeals, the ticket has expired. It's a hit that it would take to your insurance.

Anyway, I don't know if you can still get away with that, but it was great during the day because I got a lot of tickets to that B&W. But yeah, you just learn that, you know, there's, you can win in court, you know, you can win or lose in court on any given Sunday. It's kind of like that movie on any given, you can win or lose in court on any given judges. whim, right? Agreed, because it's not about the law anymore. It's about who can argue the best argument. Yeah, yeah.

And I've been in cases where we've won on one point and lost on another, we've taken it to appellate court, and it flips. When we lost on, we went on the one we won on we lost on. It's like any given Sunday or, you know, whatever. And that's kind of what's good about this is when you look at it, it actually went to trial. And then when you look at the courts, you've ever been to a jury trial, you'll see that there's jury instructions, right? And the unique thing about it is you'll see if you look at the jury instructions that my rights of obtaining any type of award was taken away because of my horrible attorney before we went to trial.

And it says, really? And it shows, oh, yeah, that's what's great about it. So when you read the evidence itself, the jury people are like, where does Webb get something out of this? Oh, don't worry about him. He was his attorney didn't file it. Too bad for him. Oh, serious.

It's in there. The judge is crazy. I told the judge that has said, look, I said, not only did I not want him as my attorney, I want to, I want to, I want to advocate for myself. And not only that, I found paperwork and that was filed on my behalf that Henry Shine submitted. It was like a 100-something page document that had all this supporting documents. So they're only things that their attorneys could get, right? And it had my name on it, like I submitted it. And then it has it submitted again a few days later with my

electronic signature. And I asked for a receipt of that. She would give it to me. In fact, what I got is I got vipered in my own court case. I was forced to have an attorney that I didn't want. And I was vipered because I called them out for what they did was so corrupt. I mean, I'm serious. What does viperd mean? It means that I was not allowed to talk. Oh. And so if my attorney, I wouldn't like normally if you hire an attorney to represent you, that attorney is going to take is going to sit there and advocate for you on your behalf.

But for me, I wasn't allowed to talk. I couldn't. My attorney had to talk for me. And I was and I had to sit there and be attacked the whole time and let them badge me and attack me and just sit there and just take it because, you know, obviously I was the bad person. Because if I wasn't the bad person, how, how do they have a claim? It was crazy. How did this work?

Did you sue them or did they sue you? I sued them initially. And I'll be honest with you. Once they fired Travis, I was like, dude, here's the thing because I warned them when I told them what was going on and they couldn't find any evidence of a lab. And I said, look, I said, because they already had the paperwork there. And then whenever I found that the lab existed through the NPI number, I sat there and filed this lawsuit. and then they fired Travis within days. And the second they fired him, I dropped the lawsuit.

Because again, I thought that that was good enough. I didn't realize that all this other stuff was in the background. And then Travis comes back and sues me later and hit Henry Shine and tags me in this three-way lawsuit. And Henry Shine and Travis are working together and conspiring to drag it out to eternity. And that's why it's the longest case in court history in Oklahoma. Oh, it is. And, oh, my God, it takes forever. there's some longer, but in today's world, it's the longest one we could find when we looked

it up. I mean, how long did the whole thing take? Over five plus years. Oh, wow. Yeah. And the funny thing is, is that all this discovery that they were needing and the judge was pretty upset because when it was time to go to pretrial, I never had a deposition yet. So I went two, three years all this time not even being deposed because they didn't want to

hear from them. They knew what they did to. And then the judge told, the judge got on to him. because they never deposed me and say, oh, we can't go to trial. We haven't deposed him yet. She was like, what do you mean? And so I went to deposition, and I cooked it. That's why my deposition is in there.

If my attorney would have done something right, I wouldn't even have to go to trial because I was that good. And it's in there. And guess what? He forgets to ask. Oh, forgets that. Well, I lose. And so eventually in trial. And then we're supposed to argue everything that we want for pretrial.

He didn't submit anything again. So guess what? I lost out on that. So, yeah, it's just, it shows what happens whenever they work together. I come to find out that his wife is a judge and she's friends with Shea. And hindsight, foresight, my own attorney was working against me. It's crazy. Who's Shea?

Shea Matthews is Travis's wife, which is, you know, which is actually friends with Billy Coyle, which is my attorney, his wife, which she's a judge. So, yeah, you got judges, you got everything, man. And in Oklahoma, it's crazy. It's a wild, wild west what they said, and it's every bit of it. That's why, I mean, again, that's why we don't have cameras and courtrooms. We're still one of the very last few states they don't allow it because why they don't want to be, look, they don't want to be scrutinized. Wow.

Yeah, that's pretty wild, man. So in book two, how does this work? You've got book one, you've got book two. How does this play out? What's in book two? Well, book two starts with my deposition. and then the rest of the facts that buttoned it all together. And in Book 2, it kind of has a surprise ending that we weren't expecting when we actually

submitted this book for publishing. And we found out that it would not all fit in one volume because you can only put so many pages in a book. And we broke it down into two volumes. And during that breakdown time, we actually got the Supreme Court win, or they call it the district court. It's the layer right before the Supreme Court. Shea Matthews got a BPO against me.

And we fought to have it overturned and we won with crazy colors because she violated my rights and civil liberties and getting it. And so it got reverse, vacated and published, which is massive, by the way. So when you talk about things getting overturned at that level, I mean, to reverse something is not very much happens, but to reverse vacate and then they publish it, that's a trifecta, you know, because they screwed up big time. They want to make sure. So now the cool thing is, is that other attorneys are going to get to use my case in future cases because of what they did. So to me, it's cool. I mean, it's part of history, if you will. So, I mean, I try to look at the bright side of everything.

Yeah. You got to do that. What do you hope people learn from your book? What do you hope that they come away with? You know, I hope they come away with that don't always judge a book by its cover. There's always two sides of every story. And it's not always the person of the big business. It's not always the billionaires that say the truth and it is what it is.

You know, unfortunately, you got to realize that they're in this world to make money. We, you know, I was in this world just to help people. And so we had two different motivating factors. There was money. Mine was the community. And but a problem is that a community can never beat money, not in today's world. So, you know, we got to make changes. We got to acknowledge what's going on in this world today.

We got to make changes. So we are protected. we do have these rights. Yeah. I mean, nowadays. Yeah. And I think the most important thing is, is that if you don't know your rights, then you have none. And that's the big thing to get across.

People think they know their rights, but really, we don't. Nobody knows their rights. Yeah. It's, you know, in a lot of it, it's big business and big money. I mean, it's, you know, the one thing I've learned is, you know, you can really bleed out people in a courtroom. Like I said, I learned from a lot of evil attorneys. you can really bleed people out in discovery.

I mean, you can make discovery very painful and you can make it gone for a very long time. And so really, it's just, you know, when I have discussions with people that have done damage for our business and I threaten to sue, I just get on the phone with the attorneys and explain what we're going to do.

And I explain, no, we don't have to win. We just have to bleed you to death in attorney's fees to the point that you're going to wish that you just would have settled and given me the damage that you'd done to my company or my business or my personal. And usually when I explain that to attorneys, they call it the client and go, you've grabbed a rattlesnake.

You need to let this thing go. And just pay him whatever the settlement is because it's not going to be worth what you're going to do. He plans on just extorting you in freaking attorney's fees. And I don't know, I'm sure. You're 100% right. You're 100% correct. My book explains exactly what you're talking about.

They bled me into bankruptcy. So you're 100% correct. you're perfect right on. Yeah, and they just destroy you. And so, yeah, I mean, it really is big business, big money, you know, against the little guy that's Dave and Goliath. And so if you don't have, you know, millions and millions of dollars to hand to an attorney or to some good attorneys that can, you know, fight your fight, you're screwed. And, you know, and then you have to look at is the cost worth the fight? I mean, there's sometimes where I've looked at stuff and been like, yeah, it's not worth the fight.

I mean, sometimes we'll send a 30, you notice of intent to sue, and we won't fulfill it, just to get compliance. And you got to do anyway, otherwise you can't get attorney's fees in most courts. But so people in the second book, this gets into the details. You published like all the dockets or all the docket paperwork and details, I guess, in these books, too. Yeah, yes, sir, everything unredacted. And that's kind of one of the great things. And, you know, kind of like with the cases today that we're finding out that everything's redacted. and you can't really make heads of tails.

Everybody gets full credit and there's no redactors. It's a great thing. Yeah. So in the end, it might be a great learning book for up-and-coming attorneys, attorneys in school and different things. And, of course, maybe how we need to change the laws to where the person with the most money, the biggest companies can't win. And there's more of an advantage to the little guy.

Because like you say, they can bankrupt you. They can bleed you out. I mean, I've cost people a whole lot of money. money that their attorneys had to sue them for. No, it's funny. You're 100% right. And it's funny that you said that the way you said it is because the way this book reads, it exposes everything in a way that it's so crystal clear that it's almost an ethics.

It's almost an ethics balance board for your attorneys because of their oath to canon that they signed in the office saying that they're going to uphold. When they read this, they're almost, they almost have to go turn it in because, You can't not unread it once you read it. You know what I mean? It's kind of like what's going on today. When you read it, you can't unread it. Once you see this, you can't unsee it.

It is what it is. I didn't create the rules. The law is what it is and that says what it says. So it is what it is. And that's the great thing about it. Yeah. And yeah, in the end, not everyone always wins. So it ended up forcing your company into bankruptcy was, how did that happen?

Did you, basically they cut you off from the supplies that you needed, this company? Well, yes, my company, we specialized mainly in the elderly population. So we were 95% Medicare. We had a lot of nursing homes we worked with and things like that. So whenever they shut the Medicare funds off, you know, kind of hard to keep things going when 95% of your funds are cut. But, you know, they told me to, you know, continue as much as I could. So I put a second on my house because what they accused me of, here's the funny thing. The initial claim was that I didn't have chart notes to suffice the need for

my testing. And that's the funny joke is because I'm a reference lab. We get orders from doctors. So their argument couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not required to have chart notes. In fact, if I had chart notes, that'd be a HIPAA violation. So they're accusing me as something that's impossible. And so that was kind of the initial attack. and I talked to the nurse. He's like, oh, man, this has got to be some kind of mistake. And this is dumb. You're obviously, this can't pertain to you.

You're not a doctor's office, but you've got to realize that we have a Clea number and we make our money as a laboratory. 99% of all your laboratories are doctor-owned laboratories. They're small doctors. They have a clear number. You know, if having a reference lab is, they're very few of us. So they make the law for the masses, but you have to apply common sense as well. And so obviously I knew I did nothing wrong.

And despite that, I had an OIG audit four months prior where they went and looked at 296 patient files, took three and a half months, and I passed with flying colors. And they said, it said back, they said, you know what? You're the first lab. We never take it a penny from. So here I go from having a perfect record to having my funds frozen off of some kind of charge that couldn't be further, that couldn't even be possible for me to achieve. And then they turned around and took that and put through me into a hit pick audit and just let me into that.

Accused me at things. And that's a three, five year process. So obviously, drowning me out. But I ran as long as I could. I built out millions of dollars into the special account that they kept. The funny thing is when you look at in the book, you'll see some of the codes that they punished me on. Some of those codes I'd never received money from. They kept that in that special account because I was just brought on a number.

new UTI line of urinary track infections. And so we just developed a new tech that just crushed the elderly market where most of your hospitals that were doing urinary track tests, they're growing it out the old-fashioned way on a petri dish. And that would take about a week to 10 days to do true susceptibility and all that. So I just spent $1.2 million working with Thermo Fisher. And we came out with a 36-hour true mic sensitivity. So it was, you're talking record changing.

And the hospital has to pay a guy 70,000. plus a year to do this test by hand where we're using PCR and we're running them, you know, in groups and we're able to, you know, cut that cost down to nothing. So obviously the hospitals in Texas, all their elderly hospitals started sitting in this business overnight and we were cranking it. But the funny thing is, is all that money went to this account and they kept it all. And they turned around and hit me in charges on that. And so, yeah, I was fine on fees that I never even got paid.

So as we go out, what do you see the future is for you? Is there more books coming on these sort of topics? Or what's the future hold? Future, I'm just going to take the experience I've had in the last 20 years of health care. And I'm getting ready to just open up a whole list of Killing Center. And so I'm just getting ready to get back at it and get back to help in the community. So I'm just, I'm really excited, real pumped. You know, the book, basically, it set me free.

gave me the ability for everybody to get the truth to hear what's going on. And because believe it or not, I didn't say anything for the last five, ten years. So everything Shay was saying in the community attacking me. I didn't retaliate because I knew one day the truth would get out. And so it finally got out. It's in the book. And, you know, hey, I'm just letting it let us do his job. So I let that all behind me.

I'm getting all of my life. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming the show. We really appreciate it. and giving us the deets on stuff and all that good stuff. So as we go out, give people, I guess, the email to they can contact you. And then if you do get the website up for all this, let us know and we'll add that to the post later on. Yeah, if you're interested in questions about the book or any type of futuristic killing centers that we're going to be building, reach out to me, contact me at Will Webb, W-I-L-W-E-B-4-7 at AT-T-T-T-D-Net.

That's Will Webb 47 at ATT.net. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate you. You have a blessed wonderful day, my friend. Well, thank you very much, for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Folks, pick up his book

where refined books are sold. Unjust Gaggle of Gavles, Volume 1, and you can read all the details about it. Probably a great story, especially for aspiring lawyers. Thanks for tuning in. Go to Goodrease.com,

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