The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unlocking Golf Mastery: The Secret to Gaining Distance and Crushing Pain

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Unlocking Golf Mastery: The Secret to Gaining Distance and Crushing Pain Par4success.com About the Guest(s): Chris Finn is the founder and CEO of Par4Success, a pioneering company in golf performance and direct pay physical therapy. Chris is a licensed physical therapist, certified strength and conditioning specialist, and a recognized expert with credentials from the Titleist Performance Institute and Golf Digest as a top 50 golf fitness professional. He has significantly contributed to enhancing golfers’ performance at all levels, from amateurs to PGA and LPGA professionals. His work is influential in both physical therapy settings and golf performance enhancement through data-driven strategies. Episode Summary: In this enlightening episode of The Chris Voss Show, Chris Finn, founder of Par4Success, shares his compelling entrepreneurial journey from starting his business out of his car to becoming a leader in the golf performance industry. Chris, a licensed physical therapist and top golf fitness professional, dives into how his innovative approaches have revolutionized the way golfers improve their game, particularly focusing on those over 40. His insights into physical conditioning, combined with data-backed methodologies, offer a fresh perspective on achieving longevity and peak performance in golf. The conversation delves into the nuances of golf as both a sport and a networking tool, emphasizing the significant role physical capability plays in enhancing golfers' experiences and successes. Chris elaborates on how his company helps golfers extend their play, gain distance, and enjoy their sport without pain, ultimately redefining what's possible at any age. He also speaks to his journey as an entrepreneur, sharing personal anecdotes about the hurdles and rewarding experiences of building his business. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone passionate about golf or interested in entrepreneurial pathways in sports performance and therapy. Key Takeaways: Entrepreneurial Grit: Chris started his business from scratch, emphasizing the need for unwavering self-belief and perseverance in entrepreneurship. Golf Performance: Par4Success uses data-driven approaches to help golfers maintain and enhance their game well into their later years. Business Networking in Golf: Chris highlights how golf serves as a valuable platform for networking with high-level professionals and making business deals. Company Growth: Par4Success has expanded from a one-person operation to a team of nearly 50, showcasing its influence and success in the industry. Online Training Acceptance: The COVID-19 pandemic accelerated the acceptance of online training, allowing Par4Success to revolutionize its delivery model for golf fitness. Notable Quotes: "I started the business from the back of my car." "Once you hit age 41, it's like you're driving along and then just boom, there's a cliff that people just fall off of." "Golf performance isn't just about the swing; it's about how mobile and strong you are in a way that actually matters for golf." "Most golfers don't understand what's possible for their age." "Being an entrepreneur requires an unwavering self-belief that you will figure it out and not stop until you do." Resources: Par4Success Website: par4success.com Chris Finn’s Social Media: Instagram, Facebook, X - All at @par4success Chris Finn’s Podcast: Golf Fitness Bomb Squad Golf Performance Assessment: par4success.com/podcast For a deeper dive into Chris Finn's insights and to hear more fascinating stories about golf performance and entrepreneurship, listen to the full episode. Stay tuned for more intriguing conversations on The Chris Voss Show.

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Now here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi folks, it's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Oh, so beautiful. Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the big show. As always, the Chris Voss Show is a family that educates you and makes you smarter for over 24 years. And I'm sorry, over 2400 episodes.

I'm not 24 years old. Jeez, my back is really tired if we are. And over 16 years of being in the Chris Foss Show, we turned 17 in August. Two more months? Jesus, wow. Anyway, we've been around for a long time, folks, to refer this show to your family, friends, and relatives. Go to Goodreese.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Voss. Chris Voss won the TikTok and

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Entrepreneurs, we love it. It's just the greatest thing in the world. Chris Finn, the founder and CEO of his company, joins us on the show today called PAR4SUCCESS.com and we're gonna be talking to him about his data, his info, how he built his company, how he's gained success and keeps on growing. Chris is a licensed physical therapist certified strength and conditioning specialist Titleist performance Institute certified medical professional certified precision nutrition coach and golf digest Top 50 golf fitness

Professional welcome to show Chris. How are you? I'm doing great. That was a, that was a heck of an intro. Well, you got a heck of a bio, man. You, you personally work with players in the PGA, the LPGA, the corn fairy tour and world long drive champions. So, uh, there's a lot of golfing going on here on the, on the show today. It's the golf show today. We, we, we do it a little bit here and there. Yeah. It's a no, but it's definitely a golf show today. We do it a little bit here and there. Yeah, it's definitely golf through and through here. And give us all your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs?

Yeah, I mean, Instagram, Facebook, it's all just at par4success, par, the number four, success, and then par4success.com. That's kind of all the great places people can find us. So give us a 30,000 overview of what you do there. Yeah, so our mission is really to help every golfer in the world play the game as long as possible at as high of a level as possible. So the number one reason why kids stop playing a sport by grown men after they've retired stop playing the game of golf, it just stops

becoming fun anymore. The body is a big reason why, particularly for those listening who are over the age of 40. We all know that we don't wake up in the morning and feel like we did when we were 20. That obviously limits the game of golf. Our mission really day to day is using data and research to help every golfer out there stop losing distance, stop the pain or aches that come with golf and surely be able to enjoy the game as long as they can. Yeah. It's kind of a wild setup on golfing how it works.

You've got to do the weird swing and you've got to do it do perfectly and I imagine their shoulders there's hips rotation everything else that's into it and yeah I mean it's as you get older things don't quite move smoothly maybe they for sure now it's actually funny we look at our data we have over 15,000 people in the database at this point and wow once you hit age 41 it's funny Chris it's like it's literally like you're driving along and then just boom, 41, there's a cliff that people just fall off of. That's kind of how I felt when I hit the 40s. I was like, my body parts are starting to fall off. I have to go back home.

There's data to back it to. Really? You're not alone. It's just super common for people as they age. I wish somebody told me sooner that it was going to go to shit sooner because I would have planned better somehow. I don't know. I would have done more or something. I don't know.

But I always figured it didn't go to shit until about 65. So you guys helped drive golf performance. How do you do that? How do you work with people to make them better? What does that look like? Yeah, I think the easiest way to describe it is just visually for people to think of a pizza and think of like four big slices if you broke it into four quarters. There's two quarters.

One is having the right equipment, obviously the golf clubs and shoes and all that sort of stuff. The other is obviously the technique, the weird swing that has to quote unquote be perfect, right? And that's where people are very aware of like, I got to take lessons or I got to go get the right equipment. Those are the two areas that I think most golfers are aware of. And those are the two areas that we don't do really much in other than tell people,

hey, your golf club is 20 years old, get a new golf club. You'll probably pick up this. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Well, we've got as more the other two slices of pizza, which are really, you know, how mobile are you? I mean, you alluded to the shoulders and the hips and there's four main rotational centers and also, you know, how strong or powerful are you in a way that actually matters for golf. For instance, you could take an NFL linebacker who's as strong as an ox and their strength may not necessarily be quote unquote golf strength.

So you can have a string bean of a guy, anyone's ever watched golf and those guys would die in a fight against a linebacker. But they can hit it farther than a linebacker, and that's just because they have strength in the right areas. So really what we do is we help golfers hit the ball farther. We have, obviously, our physical therapy or medical side of things where we help golfers get out of pain, not just on the golf course, but also their day-to-day lives. And what you said, you didn't think everything went to shit

till 65? That's unfortunately how long people wait usually. And they're like, okay, it's actually unbearable. I need to do something about it. What we're seeing is people who actually take action, like in their 50s, for example, their 60s don't suck as much. But I think that's kind of what we're trying

to help people do. Well, it's good to not suck as much. I remember I used to suck at golf and then I went and took, I was in Las Vegas. Who's the famous master from the 60s, one of the early, he's a big famous guy, forget Jack, no, anyway, I forget his name. Nicholas Palmer? It was Nick Palmer. Yeah. Yeah.

And, uh, I took his course, uh, in Vegas and I went, holy shit, I'm going to have to relearn. I'm going to throw away everything, everything I learned about the game and start over again. And I'm like, I'm not doing this. I quit. Sometimes he just got to go, you know, this isn't my thing, but, uh, no, it's, it's good that people can get that with golf. Tell us your entrepreneurial journey with this.

Was this the first company you started? What made you, what is the story here of your journey of building this company? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think entrepreneurially for me it started, I was a physical therapist at a local university hospital here in North Carolina. I had just moved down from the Northeast. I wasn't aware of the ACC rivalry between UNC and Duke. I made the mistake of referring a patient over to Duke from UNC who needed to go there

for, you know, there was a specialist there or whatever. Long story short, my boss told me, he said, hey, we don't do that here. If you refer her over, like you're going to get written up. I thought it was the best interest of the patient. I did it anyway, kind of middle finger in his face. I got written up for insubordination. I went home. After that meeting, I got about a quarter mile down the road.

He had made me sign the whole thing saying I was insubordinate and whatnot. Really? Yeah. I got about a half mile down the road saying I was insubordinate and whatnot. Really? Yeah. So I got about a half mile down the road and I actually ripped the car. At U, he went back, didn't even park the car, just left it running in front of the building, went in, he was still sitting there. I took the insubordination paper that he made me sign, I ripped it up, dropped it on his lap and then went home and told my wife, I think I didn't

think I was going to be a good employee and I probably just needed to do something on my own. So that was kind of the start. Wives love to hear that. Yeah. So that was kind of the start of it. At that point, obviously I was in the straining and conditioning, physical therapy space. I had fallen in love with golf after college.

I said, hey, golfers have money that they could probably pay me. Let me see if I can do some stuff to help them. And so I truly just basically got it, bought a hundred dollar treatment table off Amazon, drove around to different golf courses and just asked golfers on driving ranges if they let me work with them. And fast forward 10 years, I think it's 12 years now, and now we've got a team of almost 50 people around the country. We're fully remote as well as have 11,000 square foot facility here in Raleigh. It's been a journey to say the least, but definitely it all started with me realizing that I kind of just like to do my own thing.

If I'm going to spend time working, I want to make sure I'm doing it my way and the way that I feel is best. And so that's kinda where it started. Yeah, congratulations. Right out of the back of your car. That takes some bravado too to be saying, you know, hey, take your job and shove it. Well, some people may call it bravado.

I would call it ignorance. Ignorance was bliss at that point in my early 20s. I mean, obviously you felt like maybe you had some gumption for you. You maybe had the moxie for it or were you just frustrated to a point that you're just like, fuck it, I'll try anything at this point rather than have to work for someone else, I guess. It was probably, I mean, There definitely was an element of frustration. There also was awareness.

I was pretty good at what I did, but I think ultimately, I think with the big realization I've come to now is looking back, I certainly wasn't confident in what I was doing. I didn't go to business school. Literally I was reading four-hour work week and watching YouTube videos and trying to figure out how the heck you do a business side of things. But really, I think a lot of entrepreneurs have it. There's just an unwavering self-belief that, hey, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm 100% confident I will figure it out and I'm not going to stop until I do.

I think that stuck with me from the beginning. So there definitely was zero confidence, but 100% self-belief. I think that's what I've kind of leaned on, whether ignorant or not, it's worked so far. Kind of, you know, I'm not a big, I mean, I totally believe in manifesting. You have to do the work, you know? You can't just sit around and put on the vision board and hope that the car shows up, right? You know? Right. You got to do some work.

You gotta do the work. So if you, what's the old saying with luck is what happens when opportunity meets effort. Hard work, yeah. And it's really true. I mean, you tend to gear luck, but also if you're driving towards something. And so it's great that you did that.

So this was your first business attempt then, right? Yeah, it's actually fine. It's technically my only business, but within the one, you know, as any guy trying to like fully supporting his family, there was a foray into like baseball performance training early on or like, you know, basically in the beginning, you take anybody that will give you money, right?

And so the defined avatar wasn't necessarily stuck to performance training early on or like, you know, you basically in the beginning, you take anybody that will give you money, right? And so the defined avatar wasn't necessarily stuck to in the beginning. So there've been definitely iterations within it. And even in the beginning, it was very much, you know, especially pre-COVID, it was very much an in-person service business. Like think of a gym and physical therapy clinic would be the most closely related type thing to what we were doing. And, you know, I had always kind of believed in the online side of things. physical therapy clinic would be the most closely related type thing to what we were doing.

I had always believed in the online side of things. From day one, I wanted to do online training of golfers. I had been messing around with it since probably 2017. Then obviously COVID hit in 2020. Governor here in North Carolina shuts down everything in person. It was a forcing function for everyone in the world to be like, well, I can't go to the gym. How do I get workouts or stay fit?

So particularly for the 50 plus year old golfer who never before would have ever tried anything online or remote, they were like, well, my only option, I'll try it. And it's just been absolute caught fire and just hasn't stopped since. And so that's where we really kind of transitioned at this point to where 90 plus percent what we do is remote and online. And then we have an in-person headquarters that we use to kind of augment that. So now, are all the people you said you have people spread out throughout the country, are they all your employees?

Do you do franchising at all? No, so we're definitely focused at growing the online model of it. So we have employees in about 20 different states. I think that's one of the cool things. When I started the business, my goal has always been to kind of be the gold standard, obviously what we deliver in terms of golf, fitness and rehab. But I think ultimately also to be one of the great place for strength coaches and physical therapists to work.

Anybody who's ever been in the gym business or the physical therapy business knows that the work schedules as a trainer or a PT or shit here, you're working doubles, you're working at 6 a.m. or 5 a.m. 6 a.m. would be late, right? You're working like 5 a.m. until like 9 p.m. And it's just a tough life. And so to be able to do it online, we're able to give strength coaches, bring them in out of that world. They can work a normal 9 to 5 and make more than they would make in the gym world.

So it's been cool to kind of be able with the model not only deliver the same outcomes remotely as we do in person, that's a big part of our research kind of mission, but also to give them from the employee standpoint, improve the kind of the employee life or just kind of work experience, which has been fun. Yeah, definitely, definitely. So who's your prospective client? If someone's out there listening? How do they know that they fit the bill of what you can help them with?

Yes, I think the ideal client is somebody who loves the game of golf was playing, you know, at least once a week, you know Generally 45 plus I would say is that that's generally when the body's breaking down So you can't play as much as you'd like to or you've lost distance compared to where you used to hit it You're losing lots of money to your friends every time you play All of those things would qualify, you know, I think that is you know We're talking like the I the target like ideal person that we work with But we also help tons of guys, you knows who are maybe they were college players, now they're trying to play competitively in the mid-am world. Oh, really?

Obviously. Oh, yeah. And then we have obviously PGA and LPGA tour players that you see on TV every week, all the way down to 10-year-olds. But definitely the biggest clientele that we work with are those high-level individual achievers, C-suite guys who enjoy playing the game of golf, they're busy, they travel a lot. It's like, how do I help my golf game even if I only got 15 minutes a day? Those are the people that we help. Gain at least 10 yards, improve your turn,

flexibility, and stop pain. Is that a natural movement, the movement that we make for the golf swing? I know in baseball pitching, that's not a natural movement and that's why pitchers get fucked up. Or at least that's my understanding. I mean, I could be wrong. I suppose somebody's going to write me. Is it a natural movement, that whole thing that we do? 100%. You don't do that every morning when you wake up, Chris? No, no. Neither does anyone else in the world. Yeah, it's definitely not a normal movement.

I think particularly as we get older with the doctors, the lawyers, the business executives, like you all sit on an airplane, you sit in a desk, you sit in your car, you're not doing anything that's helping you rotate more. You're actually doing things that are going to eliminate your body's ability to rotate. So now you then go out and try to play the game of golf, which is telling you to rotate as fast and hard as you can. It's like driving a Porsche without brakes. At some point, the road's going to curve or there's going to be a need to stop and you're not going to be able to, and then that's when people run into problems. Yeah, my girlfriend says I need to rotate more

but I'm not gonna finish the rest of that joke. All right, I'm just gonna leave it at that. Anyway, I mean, what can you do in 30 seconds? Anyway, what else do we need to know about your company and what you do for golfers that maybe we haven't touched on and teased out to people? Yeah, I think the biggest thing that, you know, the number one thing that golfers are missing right now is that they don't understand what's possible for their age.

I think the average person listening right now, if they're playing the game of golf, is wildly underestimating what's possible for their age. Really? Wow. Oh yeah. So, and I think that's the cool thing. You guys go to parvasexist.com slash podcast. We've actually got there for you for free.

It takes five minutes. You can assess real quick the main rotational centers and then from there we'll actually send you what shows you how you compare to other guys your age, what's actually possible versus where you're at. It shows you your club head speed, where you rank for other golfers your age group. So it really kind of gives people a, I would call it a reset, a reality reset of, hey, just because losing 10 yards every 10 years is, while most people are doing that, that's not actually normal.

If you do the right stuff. You actually can gain distance over the years. And really? Oh yeah. And so I think that's, we've got guys now in their mid eighties that are swinging faster than the one they were in their seventies. You should call it the Viagra of golfing. The Viagra of golfing.

There we go. We may, we may change the title of it. Yeah. It gets your Viagra of golfing here. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know honey, it's still still 30 seconds but on the golf course they got 10 more yards so it's worth it. It's an upgrade. It's an upgrade. It's all about me. So beyond I mean extra 10 yards per swing you know what you do three to four par hole so that's you know, that's an extra that's an extra 40 yards technically

And you know you do that every you do that every hole you're you're looking at a you're looking at you know You might be able to you know, get on the take on Tiger Woods, maybe or I don't know He's got two broken legs and his back don't work. So you might be able to take on Tiger. Even now, I don't know. You can really see the pain in him. I think there for a while after that crash, you could really see the pain in him trying to sway his stuff. He's had a tough aging process to say the least.

Yeah. Don't drive your car off a cliff and get a prenup. Anyway. of Cliffs and get a prenup anyway I'm not sure what any of that means but no I mean this is a real big deal golf is still a great game golf is golf is still a great networking game isn't it for if you want to network with C-suite type people and you know be able to play and know people that are professional. You don't see a lot of people like, is it Jim Daley that I want to refer to as the white trash?

Yeah, exactly. John Daley drinking and smoking everywhere. Yeah, smoking and I don't know. He's got Hooters on calls as his sponsor, I think. And so, yeah. But you see if sophisticated people playing golf, mainly because this is damn expensive. It definitely is exclusive from a cost standpoint.

But, yeah, I think if you're talking about as an entrepreneur who wants to network or C-suite, it's just something, yeah, any business line of work you're in, you're trying to network with other higher net worth professionals. Yeah, I mean, golf is where it happens. any business line of work you're in, you're trying to network with other higher net worth professionals. Yeah, I mean golf is where it happens. I mean the number of business deals I see on the course every week, and whether it's getting invited to play

in member members or member guests, or just getting to go out and play a weekend round with a group of guys and become introduced. I mean that line of connection and business making is very much alive, particularly since the resurgence after COVID. I mean, the golf has just exploded since then. Pete Slauson Now, you work with juniors.

You work with younger people too as well. Brian Stundell Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's actually cool. We have now been doing this for over a decade now. We have kids that I worked with back when they were 12 and 13 and now they're playing and on the PGA Tour on TV every week you're playing in the majors so it's cool to watch and you know working with the you

know the junior golfers with the kids and then watching them develop you know as they go through high school and then getting into college and then trying to make it professionally and so it's fun today that we're able to kind of work with from the time they're starting the game all the way to you know we've got 92 93 year olds that we work with, just trying to play one more year. And so being able to kind of work with that through the entire spectrum is really cool. Yeah.

Well, and imagine getting the right movement down and being able to, I don't know, I guess loosen up and the physical therapy aspects of it. If you learn that when you're young, maybe it'll extend your run as a good golfer in your old age. Is that the thinking process behind it? Yeah, I think the golf fitness side of things really didn't. I think the group of tour players you see now in their 20s are the ones that kind of were the front end of growing up with quote unquote working out

and doing those sorts of things. The guys, the pros that are coming up, kind of late teens, kind of just finishing college now are really that next generation that's truly had fitness their entire lives. What you're seeing on tour is the speeds that these guys are hitting are just stupid, faster every single year. Then, guys that are in their 40s or 50s were, the fitness trailer on the PJ tour was where you went to drink a bourbon and smoke a cigar after the round away from all the fans.

Those guys and what they are producing from a speed perspective relative to what the younger guys are, you're just seeing the game evolve in front of our eyes and it's all because of the science and research and understanding how to actually train golf performance that's been happening over the last five to ten years. And I know she gives a podcast and a YouTube as well, is that true? Yeah, yeah we do. We have the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad is our podcast so that's that's been a lot of fun for me just selfishly because we have all the top hundred instructors around there. We have all the leading minds in the golf performance space. So it's fun.

We kind of have them on our pod and sit down. It's fun being on the other side of the mic here with you. Running the interviews and trying to basically get from them their insights from their years of coaching and playing with players that have come on to and giving insights to other golfers out there who want to learn more, some of the behind the scenes stuff and what the best players in the world do. So that's fun on our podcast. That's the Golf Fitness Bomb Squad.

And then we have our YouTube channels, probably our big content generator. That's where we do a lot of educational stuff visually where we'll head over to our force blades and we'll record as we're doing different experiments and research for anyone who's a geek in terms of wanting to understand every possible thing they can about their body and golf. That's a big channel that we leverage as well.

So I also see there's the golf performance assessment, but there's also a P, become a P4S partner. How does that work? Yes, that's basically anybody who's in the golf business, whether an instructor or a retailer. There's product companies that are basically anybody who works with golfers, whether indirectly outside of the fitness space or on the instructional or equipment, whatever it may be.

We have a great kind of partner program where people can apply to become a part of that. There is an application process we kind of interview if we feel like it's a good fit. We bring you guys into our community and I think there's a lot of cool benefits for our partners golfers and that we do. We'll do free private webinars. There's kind of free. We'll do a lot of inside content that we don't necessarily release publicly to them. Our goal is to try to help our partners provide more value to their customer bases. At some point, we know that one of their customers is going to have a back pain or lose distance and then obviously we hope at

that point that that person is familiar with us and that they think of us to help them solve that. But yeah, it's a cool program that we started just to support other people in the golf space who want to add more value to their customer bases. So what's been the hardest thing you've had to do being an entrepreneur, would you say, off the top of your head, what's the hardest thing you've done? I think it's different in the different phases, right? I think in the beginning, I would say it's physically demanding and hard because you're

the only one doing anything. You're doing everything. Everything. And then for me, we were six years, we had just signed a lease on our first bigger space. I had my first four employees. I was generating about 85% of the revenue and I had to have emergent open heart surgery. Oh, geez. Wow.

So that was interesting. That was hard. Yes, you're supposed to rest, Chris, for 12 to 16 weeks. I was back in four weeks with staples in my chest and like, got to make money. We're going to figure this out. You got the IV bag hooked up to your neck. Exactly. And you're like beep, beep, beep.

That part of my journey for me was physically very, very hard. I would say now having a team of almost 50 people, I think it's more the people management side and figuring out how to hire, how to incentivize, how to manage and lead by, you got to do less. I think that honestly is probably the hardest thing for me at this moment right now. I literally had a phone call with my VP of ops yesterday and he's like, dude, he's got to do less. You move too quickly for everyone else. It was like, it's okay, we got it. And so I think that's letting go control and letting your leaders that you know are in a good spot

and their teams can do it to let them kind of grow and in a way kind of let the bird out of the nest, I guess. Delegate, delegate. But you got a lot of people now that you can delegate to. What's been the most rewarding thing to you about being an entrepreneur? What would you say has been the most rewarding for you? Yeah, I think there are two phases here too. I think the initial one for me was when I was doing a lot of the work, it was the client

successes, right? Because I had my hands on them and getting one guy, the doctor told him he'd never walk again. Wow. And 10 months later, not only is he walking, but he's playing golf. His wife filming him walking into the doctor's office, walking with nothing and just flipping him off and then just turning around and walking out. That was pretty cool.

Wow. I think those kind of moments were big early on. At this point for me, the most rewarding thing is watching the team grow. That conversation that I literally had yesterday was so rewarding. I got a phone and I was like, all right, they're ready. I did my job. They're good to go. Now I just let them do their thing.

So I think that to me has been the most recently the most rewarding is seeing people who come in at a lower level position and just elevate and then they start taking over to the point where they're like, hey Chris, we got it. You can chill and go work on other stuff. So pretty cool. What a wonderful entrepreneurial success. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks so much, Chris.

It's been a blast coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you. Giveusher.com is everything as we go out. Yeah, sure. So if you guys want to check us out, probably the best place to go is parfor success.com slash podcast. That's where we have all the free stuff for you guys. And the YouTube, Instagram, everything is just par number four success. So any social platform you're on,

parforsuccess. If you want to go direct, check it out. I go to parforsuccess.com slash podcast. We've got a lot of free stuff there for you. Give you some free value. Thank you very much for coming to the show. Thanks for joining us for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Forchess, Chris Foss, linkedin.com, Forchess, Chris Foss. Chris Foss won on the TikTok, getting all those crazy places. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time.