The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unlocking Pet Wellness: The Five Pillars of the Coerenza Approach

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Starting point is 00:00:28 Because you're about to go on a monster education role. rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hello, Vos here from The Chris Foss Show. Dye. Ladies and gentlemen, I figure I try something different on you guys today. Without a matter, I am having a full seizure. So that seems to be you.

Starting point is 00:00:50 I'm just trying to recover from being gone over the holidays. And I'm like, how do you run a podcast again? Well, we've been here for 17 years and 2700 episodes. So I guess we'll figure it out. In the meantime, go to goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss. LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, one on the TikTokity and all those crazy places on the internet so you can find all the wonderful

Starting point is 00:01:11 stuff that we're doing there. We're now posting a lot more on TikTok and Instagram. So check that out. We're trying to get along with those folks over there. I guess we decided they might be cool enough for us. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Vos show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or

Starting point is 00:01:30 review of any kind. Today I'm going to be talking with Dr. Tom Walsh, a veterinarian. an animal physical therapist who founded prime pet rehabilitation therapy in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. What of a great vacation place too out there. He is also the creator of the Corinza approach. I think I got that right. Didn't they? Let's see. Did he get the right? The Carinza approach and a holistic framework for pet care built around five pillars, exercise, enrichment, environment, nutrition, and responsibility, which is different than what my Husky wants all the time. Play, play, play, treat, treat.

Starting point is 00:02:09 Anyway, so we're going to get into finding out how to do better. We're going to talk about how this approach helps pets live better lives. How can it actually reduce burnout from the professionals who care for them? Welcome to the show, Tom. How are you? Great. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for coming.

Starting point is 00:02:24 Give us your dot com's, website, socials, where we want people to get to know you better and stock you on the interwebs. Sure. Prime Pet, Rehab. com and the Karenza approach. Corinza approaches C-O-E-R-E-N-Z-A. So, Tom, give us a 30,000 overview, lay a foundation for us. What is Corinza and how does this whole thing kind of work from a 30,000 overview?

Starting point is 00:02:54 For sure. I'm a veterinarian, but it's actually a second career for me. I started off in telecommunications, and I did what I would not recommend doing, which is go to vet school when you're 40. So, yeah, so I did that and made it through. And so I have a little bit different perspective than most veterinarians. And I did general practice for about 10 years, and then COVID allowed us to rethink our lives. And I wanted to do something a little bit different. I had always loved rehabilitation, physical therapy, that sort of thing.

Starting point is 00:03:37 And so what I did was form prime pet rehab. It was mobile at the time. I was going around from vet office to vet office. And they were all empty. And we were, you know, all masked up like gangsters. And I would abduct your dog in the parking lot. And then I would go in there, work on them and bring them back out. and lo and behold, he would not be limping anymore.

Starting point is 00:04:00 And that would be a wonderful thing. Yeah. And that's how I built the business. And after a couple of years in the business, I realized that I kept saying the same things over and over again. So that meant I had a way, a particular way of doing things, and a way of approaching things. And that led me into coming up with the Karenza approach.

Starting point is 00:04:24 The Karenza approach. You know, it's funny. I was laughing a little bit when you said COVID allowed us to re-align ourselves or, you know, reconfigure what we were doing. And I was just laughing because I'm like, you make it sound like it was volunteer. Force labor. I remember having a gun to my head going, if you want to go outside, I'll get you. Yeah, not a good thing there.

Starting point is 00:04:52 But no, it did. It caused me to reevaluate my relationship with my family. I decided that I shouldn't have fake my death 20 years ago and maybe I should get them out of military school now that they're 18. But, and you know, maybe send them a letter or two. No, it actually, you know, it realigned me a lot of my values. I realized that a lot of the BS I was chasing, money, you know, cars, women, hookers blow, all that sort of stuff. I'm just kidding, folks. It was bad.

Starting point is 00:05:23 Don't do blow. and that I should care about my family and that maybe I need to kind of grow up a little bit. It was kind of awakening moment to like start taking life a little seriously and maybe business seriously and everything else. And question what we led. We changed the format of the show and over COVID.

Starting point is 00:05:43 But yeah, it was really great. I think that's cool. Necessity. That was the other thing I wanted to mention. Necessity is the mother of invention. And so that was awesome. You guys figured out a way to, you know, make that, have animals still get help, even though, you know, we were trying to avoid each other

Starting point is 00:05:59 at six feet. Yeah. Yeah, the animals didn't stop hurting themselves and didn't stop, you know, coming down with conditions. Yeah, we figured it out and made it through and thankfully grew the business very quickly. And this past November, we just celebrated our third year in, in my actual building. So, congratulations. You know, I mean, this would be a good fodder for a book. we were talking before about how you should, I think you're working on a book and stuff. That would be a great story. I mean, it's a great business innovation. It's a great story for a very dark time and a, you know, and a lot of entrepreneurs, this is how they build out.

Starting point is 00:06:38 They find something that's an impetus to themselves. You know, they're like, hey, this isn't working. So how do we innovate? And so they innovate and they come up with stuff and they find that, you know, people want to pay in direct proportionate. usually to the value that's given. And that's what entrepreneurs do. And so a great entrepreneur lesson for people out there. You know, sometimes when life hinge lemons, make some lemonade.

Starting point is 00:07:02 That's right. That or, I don't know, put it in your eyes and cry a lot. So that's probably the move I would make. I did a lot of that during COVID, I think. Me and it was every time they canceled a vent, and I watch another $10,000, $20,000 evaporate. It was like rolling punches, just event after event all year long, would disappear. And I just watched like hundreds of thousands of burn. I'm like, we build this

Starting point is 00:07:25 for five years and it's gone overnight. And life went, yeah, have fun with that, buddy. Now, in this approach, you've got five pillars. Tell us about how these five pillars, can you tease out a little bit about what they are and how do we get these durn dogs to do it? So I believe that if we pay attention to kind of these five pillars, we can probably handle, I'd say, 85 to 90% of the normal things that we see recurring in a veterinary office. And so it's kind of a preventive approach with a holistic flare, if you will. But really, it's taking care of the dog's needs from a more educated standpoint. And they are, the five pillars are exercise, environment, enrichment, nutrition, and responsibility. And responsible

Starting point is 00:08:21 But responsibility really means the role of the animal in the family. This is really important because they are pack animals and they want to know and keep up with the pack, which would be the family, whether it has other dogs in it or not. Okay. Now, enrichment, how does this work? Do I have to give my dog an allowance or I have to get them to get a job or something? I'm always yelling at my dogs. I think we're going to try to do what you do to your listeners is mental enrichment. Mental and rich.

Starting point is 00:08:52 All right. So do I, how do I do that? Give me some examples of how to do that. Let's give you a scenario. It's a nasty, gross day outside. It's raining sideways, and your dog is now getting stir crazy because they haven't gotten their walks. They've had to go out, and, you know, you've had to hold on to them while they go to the bathroom. And they're starting to do zoomies in the house and maybe go in the other.

Starting point is 00:09:20 the room, chew on a sock and swallow that and that kind of thing, that is an situation to where they're not being challenged with their brain. And when you start to realize that the nose on a dog is processing over 65,000 smells, the ears are in the 40 to 50,000 different tones, recognizable, they need to be stimulated. So using things like a snuffle mat or a lick mat. having they actually make dog puzzles with varying degrees of difficulty and even if your dog is not food motivated you can actually find one that appeals to your dog oh dog feeding puzzles i've seen those things and uh i've often wondered about them maybe i should get one for the huskies and stuff

Starting point is 00:10:12 but uh i don't know we'd have to see huskies are really yeah huskies are a uh a great breed if you think about what they were born to do. They burn off a lot of physical energy, but they still are extremely smart and constantly trying to figure things out, trying to get you to do things at home that you don't want to do, when you don't want to do them, and that sort of thing, because they like to run the house. And they like to be super dramatic about it, too, just as a general husky population. I haven't been to your house yet, but maybe this is familiar at your house. Oh, yeah. I get cussed out every morning if I don't produce the treats quickly enough or jump through the hoops. Yeah, I get yelled out.

Starting point is 00:10:58 And dogs that, for example, let's just take a simple scenario, just like you just said there, instead of you handing them the treats, they have to use a puzzle to solve those treats to get to those treats. They are going to be more enriched by that tremendously more than you just handing them on. Ah, yeah, you know, that would make sense. We've been having a problem with my dog where back in September of 2024, we lost my oldest dog. I'm sorry. And yeah, and she's had a hard time, my little one that was left behind, because that's the dog she's always known. That's been her best buddy since she was like eight weeks. And she's had a really hard time.

Starting point is 00:11:43 I've never had one of my huskies have this hard of a time. for this long. She doesn't eat well. You never know what she's going to eat. There's like 10 bag treats that I have and some treats she wants. Sometimes she doesn't. It's like really finicky. But maybe I should try getting her some puzzles so she has something more to play with. We're trying to get a dog right now. We're trying to find the right one, a new puppy so that she can get out of my hair and get, if you have huskies, folks, you have to have two. You cannot have one husky. trust me I will save your sanity right now

Starting point is 00:12:17 but you know we did go through a grieving process and then I had to get some hernia surgeries so you know it's a little hard to pick up dogs and chase them around if they're trying to pee on your carpet if they're doing it. So you've got the different things here

Starting point is 00:12:31 the exercise I know how to do that is maybe throwing the ball more a good thing to do or do I got to get them one of those I've often thought with my huskies about getting one of those those walker things. Yeah, treadmills. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:12:47 That are teaching or use mine. Yeah. Is that a good idea? You know, exercise is, it is a good idea, but it's very individualized. Just like there are us, we, there's a lot of us that like to go to the gym. Others don't. You know, some like yoga, some like running. Some people hate running.

Starting point is 00:13:06 So you really have to kind of dial it into what is your dog's kind of jam. you know, things that dogs that don't necessarily excel at running or just want to go run, you know, crazy, they can be very fast and very good at things like agility or dock diving or something like that. So, I mean, there's a number of different things that you look into. You really kind of have to kind of determine what exactly does my dog do really well? Can they jump really high and catch a Frisbee? oh, that's cool. Maybe we ought to do that more. Or maybe the exercise that we're doing, they chase the ball three times and they're like, screw that. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that anymore.

Starting point is 00:13:50 You can have the ball. I don't want it. And so you kind of have to figure out what is their favorite thing to do and when we'll go after it. And that's just a just like you would, a human child trying to figure out whether they're going to be in the band or whether or not they're going to play sports. You figure it out through a process. Ah, are they a nerd dog or are they got muscles? That's right. Are they dating? What are they doing?

Starting point is 00:14:16 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, technically for enrichments and exercise, what we do with Huskies, is we just put up a fence and see how long it takes them to dig underneath or escape. Yeah. It's the daily. Yeah, the concrete and the barbed wire and everything else. Yeah. I mean, we've got shock wire, razor wire, turrets, and they'll still figure out a way to get out.

Starting point is 00:14:38 even with Terns. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We shoot over their heads, folks. We don't shoot the dogs, but we try to scaring a little. Warning shots. Warning shots, but different for the neighborhood kids. Come in our year, we're going to feed you the dogs.

Starting point is 00:14:54 No, I'm just kidding. It's Utah. They have so many kids. They don't even know when one's missing. So I really don't. They're like, have you seen Johnny? I don't know. We've got twins on the way and we got eight other kids.

Starting point is 00:15:06 We'll find. So don't do that, folks. On nutrition, nutrition is a big deal. One of the things, you know, I've learned this with cancer with dogs and dogs having issues. You know, there's a lot of these people, what's your stance on people buying food at the grocery, dog food at the grocery store as opposed to trying to find maybe higher quality food at food places and, you know, paying more for higher quality food? For sure, you know, nutrition is probably one of the biggest hot topic. that we have out there. And it probably is a hot topic because you get so many varying levels of responses when

Starting point is 00:15:46 you start to talk about it. And the nutritionists in the veterinarian world will tell you it is simply about calories and nutrition, getting the right minerals and vitamins, just like it is for humans. And as we have learned in the human food supply, chain that overcooking things and that sort of thing, high, high heat takes a lot of those minerals out of that. And if your dog is a kibble only, that's not shaming kibble. There's some very good kibbles out there, but it may be helpful to supplement that with

Starting point is 00:16:23 some vitamins and minerals that they might be lacking there. The other side of the spectrum is, oh, we're going to go completely raw or we're going to cook our own food or this, that. the other. And I feel like it really depends on what kind of owner you are. You know, you want to provide the best food for your animal. But if you're a stay-at-home mom with two kids, it's a different thing than, you know, working three jobs and you're out, you know, 11 hours each day. That's, that's a hard sell for me to tell an owner, hey, this is what you need to do is you need to spend all your free time is doing meal prep for your dogs. So I look at it

Starting point is 00:17:06 very individually. It also is complicated by whether or not the dog has any issues, skin issues, for example, allergies. You know, because allergens are less, are more in dogs, they are exhibited through food allergens more than we are. And so there's a number of different philosophies, but it really boils down to this. when I'm advising owners on food, I really want to know what's your, you know, what's your free time like? What is, what is your availability? And what are you willing to do? Because we can make it as good.

Starting point is 00:17:50 We can make it people grade if you want to. We can do that. Is it necessary? Again, it depends on what kind of owner you are. We've got folks now that are their dogs, are their babies instead of human children. And so absolutely, if we want to go down that revenue, we could do that. But, you know, I don't want to get into the position of, oh, I only support this diet. I think that's illogical. And I think that this is where we're trying to build as the Carinza approach continues to develop. We're trying to build a community so that people get answers from registered diet. and veterinarians that are nutritionists that are that give good information without shaming without saying oh you've got to do it my way otherwise you're an idiot and we we have way too much of that out there and it it causes backlash reactions for the owners and they get really frustrated and confused yeah and like you say it's applicable to the way what the dog's health is what the dog's going through i know one thing i see a lot of the in these groups for dogs and stuff on Facebook that I'm in, they'll be like, oh, why does my dog have this outbreak on her skin?

Starting point is 00:19:08 And she's chewing off her thing. It's like, yes, you're giving her cheap food that's setting her off. I think like wheat and stuff will sometimes they have weed allergies or something. Yeah, grain has been a thing, but that's also been overblown. We know now that, yeah, if you cut out grain completely, it can lead to cardiovascular issues. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So there's a, in other words, that's why that's a great example. example, Chris, of why you actually need somebody who's been trained in this to help guide you because the misinformation out there is we've got a whole, we've got gluten-free dogs out there.

Starting point is 00:19:46 The owners are convinced that they're, I mean, as far as a nutritionist will tell you, we got a long way to go before we prove that that dog is gluten-free and all of our testing and everything else. I like the people who turn their dogs vegetarian. and their dogs are carnivores. Yep. Those canines did not evolve over centuries to eat grass. Yeah, I don't think they were hunting dandelions when they were out there in the wilds.

Starting point is 00:20:17 I've never seen any wolf documentary where they're like, they're like stocking, I don't know, wheat. Yeah. You know, it's like, wait, rabbits or wheat? Let's go with that wheat. That sounds awesome. It's plentiful. It's right here. I decided, don't understand.

Starting point is 00:20:33 Usually when I hear people like that, I'm like, okay, I'm not going to take a hammer over to their house. Don't do that, folks. No, I'm just kidding. But it is mentally, ugh. So what else have we talked about? Now, you mentioned you were trying to build a community, is do you have a community set up that you're trying to build out? We are in the process of building out a Google group. The Facebook thing, you know, very often the generations now, several generations have moved.

Starting point is 00:21:01 moved away from Facebook as a primary resource and of information and just not on it. So I wanted to do something a little bit more, you know, with the times, if you will, and evolving. So Google Group is currently being created. But I think the first step is coming out with my book. I'm about 95% done with it. And so that'll be hopefully coming out here shortly. Ah, the book will be good. But what else time we talked about do we want to talk about to get out to people on how this thing works?

Starting point is 00:21:34 Does some of your data that you work with built for vet teams and burnout that you deal with that approach? You know, yes, Chris, the veterinary industry, in my opinion, is broken. And I think that it shows the cracks in the walls are showing very, very thin or very obviously. We are the top industry, professional industry for suicide and have been for decades going back and forth with Dennis. And we also, in another very disturbing fact, we are the number one professional industry that five years out of graduation, we have the most people out of the industry. Really? So you've got veterinarians that basically made a decision when they were five or six years old that that's what they wanted to do.

Starting point is 00:22:34 And they worked their entire life to get there through very difficult academic rigors. And just to get into vet school, make it through vet school, go through all of that, come out as a vet. And within five years, they are out of the industry working at a job because of the stress, because of the burnout. out. And now they're $250,000 in debt. Wow. And so that from a veterinarian side, and you, you as a veterinarian, it's really hard to keep good people. They get burn out. You know, when you are euthanizing dogs every day and cats and you're finding, talking to owners that are, you've got owners that are making decisions between whether they get their own medicine versus the, the pets medicine, you've got, you've got situations to where we are, we are having a really

Starting point is 00:23:30 tough time as an industry. Now, conversely, on the, on the other side, owners are getting more and more fed up. We're seeing the highest degree of basically practice jumping, if you will, where people just, if they don't like what they hear from one vet, they go to a different vet. They just, they're constantly, it's a constant thing. If you are at any veterinary office in the country, probably a third of the calls that they're getting in are either getting records submitted for the first time or somebody is transferring it to another place. Owners are saying by their actions that we do not trust what's going on from our veterinarian, and the reason we don't do that most likely is because the models that we've been pushed into

Starting point is 00:24:18 15 minute, 20 minute appointments to where the doctors in there maybe seven or eight minutes of that time. And you get a brief once over. And even if it's there for a problem, you get drugs, you get a brief explanation. You're not really sure what the plan is. Out of the door you go, and you go up to the front to pay your bill, and it's $6 or $800. And, And owners are increasingly looking to each other, Facebook, Instagram. I mean, we have heard some crazy, crazy theories of things that have just surfaced. It's like that that's not medicine. You can't just stop giving rabies.

Starting point is 00:25:06 You can't do that because, oh, all vaccines are bad. You can't do that. And yes, I live in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Wait, are there people starting to do that? Yeah, it's, it is, yeah, they're taking, they're taking just like the grain-free thing. You take something that is a human hot point and transfer it to your animals. Oh, well, I don't want it for that. And I'm not saying that's every owner, but I'm saying that there's, what's happening out there is this,

Starting point is 00:25:38 we're going in two different roads and we're getting farther and farther and the gaps getting farther and farther. I propose that the veterinarians would feel a lot better and the owners would feel a lot better. Every time you came to the office, you actually had a blueprint, maybe a checklist, maybe five different points based around those pillars of how your animal is doing in your home. The veterinarian could read that. we could talk about briefly about each one. And I do believe that those owners would be more than likely ready to have a wellness plan to where, okay, I'm going to come in quarterly to come in and we're going to discuss this. And then we can make adjustments as we go. Obviously, that's not going to account for emergencies.

Starting point is 00:26:32 It's not going to account for trauma. It's not going to account for those sort of thing. But general wellness and general wellkeeping of the animal. could be back on track and the gap could be bridged and it also could help with the financial burden that the veterinarians are facing that's a that's actually a point that not a lot of folks understand they many folks think that because their bills are so high the vets must be getting rich and i i speak at vet conferences all across the country i haven't met a rich one yet Oh, really? I've met a lot of ones that own multiple practices and this, that, and the other,

Starting point is 00:27:11 but they're doing everything they can to keep good people, keep the lights on, keep the traffic coming in, because, again, that divide between, that trust divide between the owners and the veterinarians continues to get bigger and bigger. And so I just, I think that we've got to stop thinking the way that we've been thinking and listening just to business analysts. I think we need to think to, hey, what would be best for these animals? And I'm starting this process with the dogs, not because anti-cat or anti-gecko or anything like that, but I just felt like it was the easiest thing to get started on. I plan on eventually expanding that out to other species as well.

Starting point is 00:27:59 because I know in a cat household, it's usually a completely different world than a dog household. And you look at things differently. And I want to address that. But I thought I would go after the dogs first. Get those dogs done. You know, I think what you're describing too in some of the, you know, being prepared to share with the vet, your maybe the issues you're having at home, a lot of people are really bad at doing stuff like that. They just show up and they just go, oh, look at a vet, and you tell me what's wrong.

Starting point is 00:28:30 Yeah, they're like, I don't know, he's coughing a lot. But, yeah, monitoring your pet and being aware of their behavior, you know, I've learned the hard way that if they're drinking a lot of water, there's potential for having cancer. And that's how I discovered my second dog was having cancer issues. And the same thing with my third, with leukemia. And, yeah, it's tough. and advocating for your dog and also talking to multiple veterinarians really helped has really helped me.

Starting point is 00:29:02 I've had a couple vets that have been like, oh, she's old, just put her down. Yeah, I don't know what's going on, you know. I'm just, hey, why you mucking about with your dog? You know? And at one point I had two that wanted me to put my dog down, and I had this crazy Chinese origin. I mean, he was from China,

Starting point is 00:29:22 and he had a horrible bedside. manner. I mean, think of the rudest person you've ever met in China. And that's him. But he was amazing as a veterinarian. People would write reviews him. He's like, the greatest veterinarian, but just don't mind his bedside manner. You have to ignore all of it because it's really offensive. And it really was. Like, I'm just the first time I met him, I was like, I'm in my head going, I'll be you silly. But man, that dude saved my life, my dog's life a couple times, probably my life too. My bank account, too. And he was right when the, two most expensive, well-set-up doctors were completely wrong.

Starting point is 00:30:02 And so you've got to advocate for your dog. You've got to ask what's going on. You've got to get clear. I had one dog where we took her in. She wasn't eating or drinking or she was drinking like a fish. And then she wasn't eating. And we found she had cancer. And the doctor was like, yeah, just give it three days, go home, work it out.

Starting point is 00:30:22 She's probably filled with cancer all up in the colon. and she had anal sac cancer. And he's like, yeah, she's probably, you know, just call it, dude. And I was like, and I went home. And at first I was like really upset and sad. But then I realized that she had a death sentence. So I was like, well, that means everything's up from here. So what could we do?

Starting point is 00:30:45 And so I started researching and looking at diets and the raw diet and stuff. And that's what actually saved her, the raw diet. Yeah. And she started eating again. Turns out it wasn't the food. It was the sugar in the food. So, you know, but talking lots of vets, taking in different places, it's a little bit more costly. But, you know, sometimes it made the difference for you and saving my dog and advocating for that knowledge that you're talking about as opposed to just, I don't know, just you can't.

Starting point is 00:31:13 I mean, there's good vets and there's bad vets, just like there's an indie industry. And, you know, they're overworked. I know they have a hard time. You know, they come in and they're like, what's wrong with the dog? It looks like he's going to. All right, I'm out. And I get it. But you've got to, you got to question everything.

Starting point is 00:31:31 You got to ask questions. And I think asking those questions really helps. That are being firm with vets, too. Sometimes I've had vets try and barrel roll me. And I've been like, no, I don't know. I don't think you're right. But I do have a very logical, reasonable background. So I just don't do that for fun.

Starting point is 00:31:53 people because there's some people that when they do it it's a really bad idea you really don't know better that's just your ego talking but yeah so having these different things so the community are you going to set up a separate website for that or a special one of those special yeah it'll probably be I guess the way it works with Google groups is you can set up a link to get into that and then it's all password done and all that good stuff and and we are in the process of getting that long You know, community is huge, but I've learned from some colleagues that have done some really amazing things with some great communities, one being the canine arthritis management group out of the UK, Dr. Hannah Kapan, as she is amazing. She's been working for well over 10 years,

Starting point is 00:32:42 and they've built a juggernaut of a community just addressing arthritis. And, you know, so I'm learning things from them about, you know, group moderation so that you don't get, you know, just, you know, people with their hair on fire giving bad advice and that kind of thing. And so, you know, we're in the process of doing that. I think that ultimately, coming from the veterinary industry, you know, I don't want anybody to feel sorry for us. This is a, we chose this. We love this life.

Starting point is 00:33:14 But the responses that you get very often, the bad responses, that owners get, I believe probably are due to an excess amount of just unbelievably bad behavior when it comes to a lot of owners. You don't realize how many times you go in to an exam and somebody is screaming at you when you're trying to help, and they think you're all only there about the money. you're just trying to order a test and they are like, no, I'm not going to pay that. I'm not going to pay that. I want to know what's wrong with my job.

Starting point is 00:33:55 Why don't you even care about my animal? And I want you do this surgery for free. People would never do that to human doctors. And so it's really when you see, and I have seen on both sides of the fence. And that is one of the things that scares me is that we are in danger of, having a divide that you can't get back from, you know, to where people just say, I'll just

Starting point is 00:34:24 based on the internet and based on, you know, friends that I know, I'll just treat the dogs myself. We're already starting to see this with the rise of basically vaccines sold out of, you know, farm ag stores, you know, basically the same, same places horse owners go to get their feed and everything else now are often carrying stuff for, small animal as well. Folks are trying to basically home Medicaid. And if you don't know what you're doing, you can make an animal really sick.

Starting point is 00:34:57 So having a little direction, I'm not saying that if that's the cost-effective way that you can do to do it for your animals, I'm okay with that. But you've got to have some direction. You've got to know what you're doing. And you can't just be basing that off of what the latest thing Instagram says.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Wait, there are quacks on the internet who do things for views. and virality, but have lack of knowledge of anything. In fact, the dumber it is, the more viral it goes. So that seems to be the thing. Take the supplement industry for a minute. You and I, right now, we could come up with a formula for a supplement, and it could have arsenic, cocaine, and methamphetamines in it.

Starting point is 00:35:39 And this was going to cure that anxiety of that dog. Oh, yeah. That's Fridays around here, actually. Yeah, we could throw a couple pictures up there. And nobody would come regulate that. Those are completely unregulated. And that's why the supplement industry has exploded. And you're wondering, what am I putting in my animal if you're paying attention?

Starting point is 00:36:04 Because everything sounds amazing. It looks slick on the internet. It looks slick on TV. But what's happening? That's where we have to go back to the science. Let's go back to what has been reviewed, what has been tested. And veterinarians can help you with that. Years ago, I don't think you can do it anymore, but years ago, I got in Las Vegas the rabies shots,

Starting point is 00:36:28 and I think Portatella or one of those other ones, from an IFA. And I never administered syringes or needles to my dog and never done this before. And so I went out to my dogs in the car and was about to give them administrate. and I took and filled the needle and all that stuff. And some told me just to go back in and talk to the gal. And I went back and talk to the gal and I go, I don't know that I'm doing this right. Am I doing this right?

Starting point is 00:36:57 And she goes, yeah, you got one problem, though. You got a lot of bubbles in air in that, in that fringe. You're going to kill your dog because you're injecting oxygen into the bloodstream. And I almost killed my dogs. I mean, I don't know if they would have died or what would have happened. They get very real possibility. There's a reason you hire professionals, people. So your dogs live.

Starting point is 00:37:18 And I'll never forget that. I'm like, okay, yeah. Doing home remedy maybe isn't my thing. You know, let's keep with the professionals. As we go out, give us a final pitch out for people. Is there anything we missed? Anything we want to tease out to people and getting involved with you and what you guys are doing? No, I think that we've got a sign up, email sign up on the website.

Starting point is 00:37:41 If you want to hear some podcasts that I've done, just basically on my own. with tips and tricks of how you can actually turn the Karenza approach actually into, you know, things around holiday time or things, you know, whatever it is that, you know, my dog is especially anxious. What are the things that I could enrichment things that I could do around my house? Those kind of things. I put out a number of those. We continue to to make that sort of thing, but I think it really boils down to keeping in touch, you know, and be looking for the book, obviously, but we're going to be doing more and more podcasts, hopefully, and getting the word out, because I really believe the powers and the people. And I want to, I want to help as many

Starting point is 00:38:24 animals. You know, that's the, that's the other thing, Chris, is when you, when you go to your, your true calling after 40 years old, for me, everything changed about what was super important to me. And this is not for to generate millions of dollars. This is, this is honestly to help as many animals as we possibly can. And also, if possible, the, the humans on the vet side as well. I know that they're, they're struggling. And I, I see it from a unique perspective. And I think that I just want to kind of help, help folks see both sides. Yeah. And, and, you know, people need to, for their dogs. They need to advocate for themselves and their dogs. You know, I remember, I remember there's this classic moment where my dog had had anal cancer. She'd blown everybody away.

Starting point is 00:39:18 She'd blown the three days away. She lived for a year and three quarters after diagnosis. When the doctor said she's not going to make it another month, that doctor did. Let's put it that way. And every time I take her in, they would just be like, we have no reason. We have no idea why she's still alive. And she actually put on weight. She started eating again with the raw diet and everything else. But there was a time where she started collapsing. And I was like, okay, the, you know, the anal sacs right there had grown to a golf ball size. And I'm like, okay, it's clearly interfering with her legs. It's time to call the ball. And so I should have gone into the doctor and just met with them. But instead, I just assumed the worst. It was, you know, we were a really

Starting point is 00:40:04 dark place doing hospice care for her for a year and three quarters. And so I went in. I paid the money to have her put down. I signed all the papers and stuff. And the dog came in. And he goes, hey, I guess we're doing this today. I know we've seen Abby a number of times. And he said, you know, what's going on?

Starting point is 00:40:23 Well, she's, you know, her back legs are giving out. She's falling down. I think it's spread through her legs maybe. And he said, he said, hey, man, this is really, this struck me like a lightning bolt to the to the head. I'll never forget it. And he goes, hey man, you know, I know you paid to put the dog down and you've signed to have it done. He goes, but looking at her, I'd like to take a look at her. And he goes, he goes, listen, I'll understand if you need to do this for you because this is tough. And maybe you've reached that point where it's just too tough. And he goes, so if you want to call it,

Starting point is 00:41:02 I don't want to put pressure on you. if this is what you want to do. But we'd like to look at your dog and decide and just do an analysis if you don't mind. And him suggesting that there were people that, you know, reached a point where they couldn't handle it anymore. Yeah. The dog had potential. I was like, holy crap, there's people that do that. And so I said, yeah, please, you can save me from putting her down today.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Take her in the back. They took her in the back. Turns out it wasn't the cancer. It was she had severe arthritis developed. And he's like, I'm pretty sure after we checked her out that if we just put her in her some good arthritis medicine, she'll come back and you can buy more time. And she did. She lived for like, I don't know, another six months or something. Yep.

Starting point is 00:41:48 And it was crazy. And then I think it was in the end, her legs finally did blow out. And between that and the cancer, we had to finally call out. I mean, she was dragging herself around the floor. And she talks like, yeah, I don't think we're here. But, you know, we bought six months. and it was great that the doctor, instead of listening to me

Starting point is 00:42:07 trying to tell him how to do his job, you know, that's a great example there, but also advocating. But it was really interesting, you know, he's like, if you can't do this,

Starting point is 00:42:16 if you can't handle it and you're done, you know, we'll call it. I was like, geez, there are people that go, eh, so my dog might live six more months,

Starting point is 00:42:26 nah, go ahead and call it. And I've seen that with a lot of dog owners. You know, they'll go to a doctor or vet, and they'll go, yeah, the doctor said, you know, game over, it's whatever. I'm just, I'm just going to put her down. I'm like, do you want to get a second or third opinion?

Starting point is 00:42:41 Yeah. I mean, because I've been told several times to put my dog down. And for five to ten years after, maybe seven. So, you know, it's just one of those things. And then I'll be like, oh, no, I just decided to put her down. And I'm like, geez, you quit a little easy there, didn't you? But, you know, it's not my journey. It's their journey.

Starting point is 00:43:04 They get it. But still, I've kind of seen that a lot. People give up too easy. Well, I think we're approaching a situation in dog and, and pet ownership to where we're getting further and further down this path of either extreme care. And the cost is, is no, no limit. And no care. because it can't be afforded. And we've got to do something as an industry to help rectify that.

Starting point is 00:43:36 And I believe at least something as simple as, hey, at least can we talk about the same things that would actually matter to that animal instead of just going in going, well, I can't, I got to put them down because I can't afford to feed them anymore. Yeah. You know, that kind of thing. I'm kind of curious about what's going on there. I've been looking for a new puppy, and I like to have a puppy. I the ride it's so hard at the end usually the last few years you're carrying them and I just want the full ride because it's so painful and I don't want to be close to the ending than I am to the beginning and so that's just my thing you know I don't have children if you want to tell me otherwise unless you adopted your children I don't really want to hear it uh that's always the thing that you should adopt Chris yeah well did you adopt your children Or do you just squirt them out your pie hole? Yeah, shut up.

Starting point is 00:44:29 So these are my children. But jokes aside, where was it going with this? I think I segued into a joke and I corner myself. It's a coldest sack. I can't get out. But, no, I'm lost. We'll just wrap. No problem.

Starting point is 00:44:46 You were saying that you're seeing this with people and having difficulty. So we're looking for a new dog. and I'm kind of surprised that the extraordinary amount of dogs that are at a five to seven year age that are up for sale. And there's almost a wink in a nod, sly, subconscious thing

Starting point is 00:45:05 that when I'm talking to people, I'm starting to wonder if their dog is finally, you know, they took the best years and now they maybe health hit the skids because they're like, yeah, we're just trying to give the dog away and we just can't give it time anymore. And I'm starting to think,

Starting point is 00:45:20 maybe they can't afford the vet bill. The care, yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, the feeding. The biggest thing for me is a lot of them are huskies. And these idiots never figured out what they were buying. Yeah, exactly. And now they're like, we were just so overwhelmed.

Starting point is 00:45:39 And it's like, yeah, it's a husky. Well, that's a whole new, that's a whole game in itself. It is. So I've had four of them. Anyway, well, thank you very much for coming the show. We really appreciate it. And learned a lot there, Dr. Tom. We'll look forward to some of the things you're doing there.

Starting point is 00:45:54 Give us your dot com one less time for bookends as we go out. Sure. It's my office in Myrtle Beach is primpetrehab.com. And the Carinza approach is the Carinza approach. And Corinza is C-O-E-R-E-N-Z-A. All right, folks, be good to each other. Stay safe. And don't walk your dogs in the backyard and forget about them.

Starting point is 00:46:18 Those are the worst people in the world. Their family aren't animals. And if your family isn't good enough, go give the dog away to somebody else. You know, one of our neighbors has got one of those dogs that's locked in the backyard, it turned to me, and it barks to all hours of the day and night, and you just want to go over and strangle some of these people. But you can't do that because that's illegal. But it should be legal, I think.

Starting point is 00:46:40 If you got a dog and you're abusing it, then we should all get to go over. No, I'm just kidding. Violence is not the answer, folks. Call an attorney. Anyway, guys, go to Goodreads. dot com, Fortress, Chris Foss. That's Chris Foss. Chris's show advocates for violence.

Starting point is 00:46:56 No, we just do jokes. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Be good at each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next. You've been listening to the most amazing, intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life. Warning. Consuming too much of the Chris Walsh Show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter,

Starting point is 00:47:13 younger, and irresistible sexy. Consume in regularly moderated amounts. Consult a doctor for any resulting brain bleed. All right, son, that's got us out.

The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unlocking Pet Wellness: The Five Pillars of the Coerenza Approach

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