The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unlocking Success: Alex Feinberg’s Fitness and Performance Secrets

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

Unlocking Success: Alex Feinberg's Fitness and Performance Secrets Insanelyaddictive.com About the Guest(s): Alex Feinberg is a dynamic leader in the online coaching sphere, known for his extensive career across various industries. A former professional baseball player, Alex transitioned into a hedge fund analyst, a Google executive, and an early cryptocurrency investor. Now, he excels as a high-performance coach helping executives, founders, and entrepreneurs enhance their performance and streamline their lives. His expertise is grounded in his 20-year journey through diverse professional landscapes, which culminated in building Feinberg Systems, a platform dedicated to revolutionizing personal and professional development. Episode Summary: In this thought-provoking episode of The Chris Voss Show, listeners are introduced to Alex Feinberg, a versatile professional with a rich background in professional sports, finance, and tech. Host Chris Voss navigates an engaging discussion with Alex, who delves into his unique approach to coaching, which leverages his career trajectory to optimize clients' performance and quality of life. Listeners gain insight into how Alex's coaching philosophy diverges from conventional wisdom, promoting efficiency and effectiveness rather than sheer effort. This episode explores the intersection of performance, fitness, and corporate success, shedding light on common misconceptions in these areas. Alex emphasizes the power of behavioral economics in dieting, training, and life management, offering practical strategies to high-performing individuals aiming to elevate their personal and professional journeys. Central themes include the critique of mass-market advice, the importance of behavioral adaptation for high performance, and real-life applications of economic frameworks to enhance individual productivity and success. Alex also highlights his methods for empowering entrepreneurs to negotiate better business outcomes. Key Takeaways: Alex Feinberg utilizes his background in sports and tech to offer a results-oriented coaching methodology that prioritizes performance and intelligent strategy over conventional effort. Feinberg's fitness approaches, such as avoiding calorie counting and remaining intuitive with dietary habits, help mainly athletic men achieve substantial health gains. The episode highlights how successful executives can work smarter, achieving more by doing less through strategic planning and precise execution. Alex criticizes typical corporate environments as being akin to cults, where promotion often means conforming and losing cognitive autonomy. Listeners are encouraged to question mainstream advice, and embrace resilience and innovative thinking to achieve high-level success. Notable Quotes: "If I approach life the way everybody approaches it, and if I listen to conventional wisdom, I'm gonna be in the middle of the pack." "You can have more success if you're willing to do less." "Most people's intuition is completely removed from what actually does work." "Fitness for most people is a scam." "I realized that as an employee, I'm dealing with a monopsony." Resources: Feinberg Systems Connect with Alex Feinberg: @AlexFeinberg1 on social media Listeners are encouraged to delve into this enlightening episode for innovative insights and strategies framed through Alex Feinberg's high-performance coaching philosophy. Stay tuned to The Chris Voss Show for more episodes that push the boundaries of traditional thinking and inspire transformative life and business practices.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster

with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. I'm Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, they're the only things that makes the official. Welcome to 16 years, 23 in our episodes of the Chris Boss Show. We just keep bringing you 10 to 15 new shows, new guests, new amazing people that are going to tell you how to improve the quality of your life, make your lives better and everything

else. If you want to know how to make your lives worse, well, you'll have to go find some other podcasts because we don't do that around here. We make your lives better or else don't make us pull the car over and come back there folks. Today we have an amazing young man on the show. We're going to be talking about how he can make you live a more healthier life and all that good stuff. We'll get into some of the deets as they say. The kids say that nowadays, don't they? The deets? No, they don't. I don't know what the kids say. I don't have any clue what the kids say. Get off my lawn. Anyway, Alex Feinberg is joining us. He is a former professional

athlete, hedge fund analyst, Google executive, early cryptocurrency investor, and now a leader in the online space coaching men on high performance. His unique career experience over the last 20 years forged a distinct understanding of the human condition, which paved the way for Alex to dominate as a coach for executives and founders. Welcome to the show, Alex. How are you? I'm doing great, Chris. That was one of the most intense introductions on all fronts I have ever been a part of.

So congratulations to you and your audio staff for that. Thank you very much. We bring the brain bleed as it were. So Alex, give us your.coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? Alex Ligato, CEO of Findberg Systems, is where you can learn how to make your life better using the systems that I have discovered and improved upon over my 20 years as a pro athlete, hedge fund analyst, tech executive, and entrepreneur.

So give us a 30,000 overview of what you do there at your company. That's a very good question. You know, I think it makes sense to start where I started as a teenager wanting to be a major league baseball player because a lot of the shortcuts that I have developed and that I help high performers integrate in their lives are downstream from my experience as a division one

and professional athlete. My years at Vanderbilt University were the four most stressful years of my life, juggling my economics major, which is actually substantially easier to graduate with an economics degree with honors than it was to be a high-performing athlete in the SEC for four years in a row, cutting through the stress of performing in front of thousands of hostile fans on SEC Road weekends forced me to reimagine every situation that I was in to de-amplify the stress that I was experiencing. Because it forced me to compete at a higher level than I even realized I had the capacity to compete in, my mind started focusing in on all the different shortcuts that I could possibly make to make life easier.

And what this ultimately resulted in is almost an autistic way of looking at the economic frameworks that I was being taught in class and applying them to the real world. So I have applied behavioral economics to dieting, behavioral economics to training, and behavioral economics to the way I structure my life and the way I encourage my clients to structure theirs. What that means is, over the last 10 years, I was able to realize that if I'm in good shape, if I work for a large company, I don't have to work as hard as the people who are not in good shape.

So I'm not actually investing extra time to go to the gym because for every hour I'm in the gym, I can take two hours off from my desk and nobody's gonna notice the difference. And so observing shortcuts like this as an elite athlete was the first step to me figuring out, hey, you know, if I approach life the way everybody approaches it, and if I listen to conventional wisdom, I'm gonna be in the middle of the pack It's gonna be very difficult for me to compete and if I want to win in life I need to figure out a more efficient path forwards So downstream from my figuring out a more efficient path forwards. I was never interested in having ABS

I never thought that I could have them. I didn't think I had the genetics I just liked having an advantage in the workforce and being able to negotiate for more money than my peers could negotiate for in similar situations. And so, I just liked going to the gym. I just liked having fun. I was never trying to work so hard that I dreaded my next session. I was living in the little Italy section of San Francisco where I could eat delicious Italian food, you know, in pizza and pasta and burgers and tacos, you know, most meals of my day. And I was able to figure out how I could eat 4,000 calories a day of pizza, burgers, chicken, tacos, and get ripped doing it. And so that was my first foray into an online business,

was teaching people how to do that. But I've been around for four years, and the people who followed me closely realized that the shortcuts that I was able to apply to fitness aren't limited to fitness. They actually apply to almost everywhere you look in life. There's usually a place that you can improve where you can get results more easily.

And you help people get those results and gain them. Do you mostly work with men or do you work with women too? Jared Slauson I work with mostly men, probably 90 to 95% men. That's downstream from my fitness system working substantially better for men than women. There's some women who will have success with my fitness system, but it's a no-calorie counting fitness system. And due to female hormonal fluctuations throughout a month, it tends to be a lot easier for men to have success with my system, particularly athletic men, than women. Athletic women can have success with my system, but if you're not an athletic woman, it's going to be very challenging for you to achieve the

muscle gain and the fat loss without following a closer calorie counting diet which I swear I will not do and I will not teach. Calorie counting. Some of the things that you talk about in your things is the red flags and pitfalls of mass market advice. There's, you know, there's everybody in the market right now is, I have the secret, you know, and I have the secret to looking great and feeling great. Eat lots of donuts, but I don't think that's going to help anyone, but I'm just full of shit, but it sells. There's people that buy that kind of crap and misinformation. So how do you identify the red flags that are out there, misinformation, pitfalls of mass market advice?

I mean, it helps to be generally an intelligent person. You know, we can start with, yeah. It's not pushing Alex, come on. Have you seen the public lately? No, I'm just teething. No, that's why I don't work with the average person in the general public. It helps to, so this is actually something that I was podcasting with a friend of mine

a couple of weeks ago. And most people when they experience cognitive dissonance, they do nothing about it. They're like, oh, that's interesting that this feeling that I have completely contradicts a certain feeling that I had earlier. Oh, but smart people, when they have cognitive dissonance, they actually use it as a catalyst to re-architect their frameworks and rethink the assumptions that they've taken. And a lot of people who are good students, because I was a good student growing up, I went to a good university, you know, a lot of people who get good jobs were good students. You don't realize that you've been brainwashed your whole life to seek approval from a third party because that's

essentially what our education system does. It trains you to be a monkey that jumps for approval. And a lot of companies hire people who have this Venn diagram intersection of ability, but also insecurity. Because if you were capable, but not insecure, if you were capable and confident, you wouldn't deal with the BS that junior employees deal with at white shoe firms, right? Because it's essentially a hazing ritual, your first five or 10 years, to get you to give up your former identity and identify within your position, identify as your position within the firm. And if they can't get you to do that, then you're not going to go through the hell that

it takes to become a partner or a VP or whatever equivalent exists within your firm. And so if you realize that corporations are essentially cults and the way that they structure their promotional processes is meant to strip you of some degree of autonomy, of cognitive autonomy, you start to question a lot of the advice that people get about, you put your head down, you get a promotion. I applied economics frameworks

to navigating the corporate world and I realized that as an employee, I'm dealing with a monopsony. And a lot of people aren't familiar with the term monopsony, but a monopsony is very similar to a monopoly, except the monopoly is where you have one seller and many buyers. And that seller has pricing power over the market to where the sellers have to pay the price that the, excuse me, the buyers have to pay the price that the seller commands because they have no other choice. But with a large corporation, you have a monopsony where you have many people selling their services, but only one buyer purchasing them. That buyer has significant

leverage over the multiple sellers because he can pit them against each other and see who is willing to provide the best value for the lowest price. And I realized that I am in a structurally non-competitive negotiating position as an employee at a larger company. Some people without putting the thought in say, I'm just a cog in a machine, but I saw it year after year working at Google where you are being incentivized to commoditize yourself, where as you climb the ladder, you get rewarded for not working on the things that make you different because they don't have the capacity to grade you

on the things that make you different. You can only get rewarded for the things that are like the other people that you are being compared against. And ultimately what that does is it reduces the likelihood that you are ever going to escape the plantation. So people end up with golden handcuffs. They don't necessarily know why, but the reason why they have it is because they have been focusing on optimizing skills that a very small number of buyers are willing to purchase.

And when they try to shop those skills around, guess what? You don't have another buyer who's willing to compete with the existing buyer that you have. And so when I was working at Google, I never tried to get promoted. I got promoted twice because I'm a generally competent person and I do the things that I say that I'm going to do, but I never celebrated a promotion. I never wanted my identity to be tied into my position within their firm because I saw so many of my colleagues get depression, anxiety. Essentially they became cognitive

slaves or emotional slaves to performance reviews and their position within somebody else's firm. And I just thought I have one life to live and it wasn't meant to be that. Pete Yeah. Pete You really nailed it on the head there in defining it, you know. I mean, it's one of the reasons I've worked for myself since 18. You know, people, there's a real conformity, you know. I often think of corporate work. I always see that image in my head from the Pink Floyd video, we don't need no education where the kids are being put through these manufacturing conveyor belts, mass stamping and brainwashing

for stuff. And really, I mean, there is a lot of conformity that goes on in the office, you know, and I love what you said about how everyone's being compared to everyone else by how well they can conform technically, right? It's a, Bob's jumping through the hoops and being a bigger conformist than you are, so he's going to get a raise and maybe you're not going to get a raise. You know, who can kiss ass the best basically contest. And well, there's, I mean, I guess it makes sense for a certain degree, you're in that environment.

I'm just glad I don't have to deal with it. Let me ask you this, what is your prospective client? If people out there listening, concerning your services, what is your prospective client look like? Is there a minimum spend they need to have? What are those folks trying to achieve so that they can know that they're the people who should reach out to you? David Morgan It's usually going to be somebody who runs

his own business. I do work with some high level executives, but typically people who run their own business are juggling multiple balls and need help consolidating them. And so CEOs, entrepreneurs are my target client. The closer you get to that, the more value I can provide to you on a monthly basis. And that's on performance coaching. I do fitness coaching as well. I run a fitness group.

I do one on one fitness coaching. So fitness coaching, if you're interested in the approach that I utilized to get ripped without counting calories or going hungry, and I've helped dozens of men around the world lose 20, 30, 40, 50 pounds following similar principles or following my program, essentially, that's going to range anywhere from $500 to $1,500 a month if it's a good fit. On the performance side, it's typically going to be a couple thousand bucks a month or more. As I've gotten along with it, my preference is to be able to strike a performance-based deal. Because if I can arrange a performance-based deal, ultimately people feel more comfortable engaging,

but then the upside is higher. So last year I had a performance-based deal where I helped a client negotiate a business divorce. Because one thing that I became very effective with through my years navigating Google is negotiating. I was able to negotiate a $50,000 raise for myself joining a company that had far fewer resources than Google when I left. And I helped a client last year negotiate a business divorce where he got $900,000 of additional value because he brought me on and I helped him navigate his situation more effectively. And, you know, I got a percentage of that.

And I would prefer that. I got nothing upfront, but it ended up being the biggest deal that I had of the year because he was great to work with. There was a ton of value at stake or at risk. And I was able to easily help him capture close to a million dollars more. And, you know, for folks who are interested, yeah, yeah, most people don't negotiate that well. Even people who've taken negotiating classes, to me, negotiating is, I look at it like wrestling. And perhaps this is a way that I'm neurodivergent is I see shapes in situations that other people don't. I see levers moving in situations where other people don't. And so there's certain situations that people try to get backed into.

And my reflex is no, that is a non-leverage position, or that is completely ridiculous, the situation you're getting backed into. And a lot of people don't realize that they are. And so their instincts are wrong, but they've been generally successful their whole lives. So they don't realize that no, you can hire somebody who can actually help you get 10%, 15% more.

And when the numbers get big enough, it almost becomes a no brainer. Dude, you have to find somebody who can help you get 10% more on this deal. Pete Slauson And so, when you work with, does someone have to be, I guess, an active gym goer as well? Is it – Jared Liesveld No, you don't have to be. You don't have to be. You don't have to be. Typically, type A individuals will have much better results with me because a lot of times what limits a type A individual,

and that's because in order for me to go from good to great, I had to figure out how to do less. And a lot of times people get stuck at good because the difference between average and good is more work. And they don't unlearn that lesson that they learned when they were 17 years old. And so a lot of people stay stuck at good because their eyes are on the rear view mirror. They're unwilling to give up the adjustments that got them where they are, even though they're frequently the

opposite of the adjustments that they need to make to get where they need to go. And so it's very easy for me to look at a type A high performing individual and say, you know what, you can have more success if you're willing to do less. It's a lot easier for me to work with somebody like that than work with somebody who, hey, you know, you're not really that motivated. That's very difficult for me. Number one, those people tend to not be very successful. And number two, it's not very fun to work with somebody who's not very motivated. It's very easy for me to justify my value. If I'm looking at you, I'm saying, Chris, you're working 55 hours a week, and you're getting worse results than you would if you were working 40 hours per week.

So what we're gonna do is we're gonna figure out how to cut your time commitments down by 15 hours. You are gonna need to do things differently. So the hardest part of it is going to be the discipline that's required to do things differently. I'm not going to require you to do more in aggregate than you were doing before, but I am going to require you to do things differently.

Otherwise you are not going to get a different result than you've had before coming to me. And if you can be disciplined enough to unlearn the lessons that got you to where you are today, we can have a lot of success together. You know, the one thing that people do have their type A personalities or their ADD like me, they have the CO disease, you know, a lot of us are driven that way. But one of the problems that we have is we don't, I guess I can't speak for everybody,

but I think a lot of us, it can be said, have problems balancing life, work, health, you know, I have problems balancing life, work, health. You know, I have problems balancing the gym. I mean, usually when I go to the gym, I go for two, three hours. People find that weird, but I tend to go to the gym and instead of just trying to like rush and like bang out the stuff and go, I try and take my time and kind of mellow in the experience and just make sure that I, you know, when I'm lifting is good. But there's always ways to do things better. There's always ways to do things proven.

I think what you alluded to, working smarter and not harder per se in the workouts that you're doing. But I spent the first 50 years of my life ignoring the gym and not taking care of myself and now I regret it. And I tell entrepreneurs like who you work with, you know, take care of yourself now. Get, you know, find that balance between working out and you know, cause we all do the same thing. I mean, I don't know if we all do the same thing, but many of us do the same thing.

We're just like, I'll worry about working out later. I'm going to make the money now. And then once I have the money, then I'll have plenty of time to do other stuff later. Right. The more successful you are, the more busy you are, the less time you have. Yeah. Having it- Not if you're doing it right. Yeah. I mean, like I said, if you work smart as opposed to working harder,

it can make all the difference. It's surprising to me that so many executives have that approach and you're right, and so many people do. But to me, it's almost like looking at baseball players in the 80s. And a lot of them would smoke cigarettes and drink like six or 12 packs after games. It's a bad thing. They definitely had more character than the players today. They're funnier and probably more fun to be around, but nobody does that now. If you were to go into a major league locker room and bust out a six pack and a pack of Marlboro Reds after the game

and you were like a rookie, people would be like, what are you doing? But it was common 40 years ago. And working with personal trainers was, it's very common now. Everybody does it. Nobody did it 40 years ago in major league baseball. Very few people did. And I look at athletic, or excuse me, I look at executive performance about 40 years removed from athletic performance where once the contract started getting large enough in the 80s where people were like, yeah, you know, if I have a couple of good seasons, I can make enough money where I don't have to ever worry about working after I'm done playing. So I'm going to take this a little bit more seriously than I did before. I think we're a couple of years away from that as executives where they'll start to realize,

no, my brain works better when I focus more on sleep and I focus more on the gym. Ultimately, if you're a high performing executive, you're not successful because of the volume of things that you do. You're successful because of the quality of work that you can put out, the quality of thought, the quality of planning, the quality of architecture that you can make. And when you're sleep deprived and when you're physically slower and weaker than you should be, the quality of your output will be diminished. So you are not going to maximize your income by maximizing the amount of hours you work per week.

You're going to maximize your income by being able to do things that your competition cannot do. And the way you're going to put yourself in the best possible position to do that is to be rested with a high functioning body and mind. So tell us about some of the offerings you have on your website. I'm looking over InsanelyAddictive.com. Tell us about some of the different offerings you have there. You have group coaching, performance coaching, delicious food, which is the part I'm looking

at right now, and your approach and stuff. Yeah. So group coaching is what I do for people who have a little bit more schedule flexibility, right? So that's typically not going to be the executive who can carve out 30 minutes per day on a Wednesday to sync with the group, or 30 minutes a day on a Monday to sync with the group. If it is great. But that is an introductory approach to the way that I do fitness, which is performance

focused. So the thing that most people get wrong about fitness, everybody thinks that they need to count calories and be in a caloric deficit to lose fat. And that's like half true. The problems that people have with their approach to fat loss are very similar to the problems people have with their approach to wealth building. You don't get rich by saving small amounts

of money every day. You get rich by investing the money that you save in places that go up in value. You get fit sustainably by increasing your resting metabolic rate because you're not gonna burn that many calories in the gym I burn over three thousand calories per day on days I don't go to the gym due to what I do in the gym and this is something that most people in Fitness today don't get because fitness for most people is a scam

The reason is the clients don't understand what works. Most people's intuition is completely removed from what actually does work. People believe the efficacy of a workout is strongly correlated with how hard it was, how much you sweat, and how sore you got. And all of those things are essentially a masochism index. They are not correlated with what's actually going to move the needle for your metabolism.

They are not very closely related to how many calories you're going to burn away from the gym. And so if you optimize for the wrong thing, you end up trying too hard at the wrong thing. Your results aren't what you want them to be. And after several weeks or months, you eventually stop having the motivation to continue putting effort into a system that has failed you. And so what I realized by accident is that when you train for performance, you have to rest more. You can't be doing set after set in the gym because you can't perform at a high level doing set after set in the gym. You can't train six days a week because you can't perform at a high

level training six days a week. And you can't starve yourself because you can't perform at a high level if you starve yourself. And so all of a sudden, if you stop doing the things that most people think they have to do to be in shape and you simply approach it the way an athlete would, protein dominant dominant real food when you're hungry until you're full, focusing on speed improvements and strength improvements in the gym and resting accordingly,

all of a sudden your metabolism starts to respond in a way that you never thought was possible. And so this is something I teach the folks in my group class. I also teach people one-on-one. Typically my one-on-one clients have more scheduled limitations, so they're not able to go

to those regularly scheduled group sessions. And they may have an injury history because the people in the group will get more template and training programs where the people who I work with one-on-one will get customized training specific to their bodies and injury limitations. And so I started offering

fitness just because there's such a demand for people who want to approach fitness more intelligently. And you know, I'm a meathead at heart. I can say articulate things, but I really like to eat. I really like to lift weights. Before we started recording, I just got back from the gym where I spent my early afternoon. I really liked doing it. I thought years ago, if there's one way that I could make a positive impact on the world, it was teaching people how enjoyable this whole process could be. So I do that on a group and a one-on-one level.

But then with performance coaching for executives, everything I do is custom to the individual. Generally speaking, there's one of a small number of miscalculations that the executives that I work with are making. And with the way that my mind works and with the way that my mind dissects problems and in congruity in the way people

are approaching solving them, it's very easy for me to focus on and identify the choke points that exist within an executive's workflow and basically play Django with the schedule to free up time and put more effort behind the highest leverage areas and ultimately get the executive more success, more money with less effort. How to succeed as well.

So as we go out to get people, tell people how they can onboard with you, how they can reach out, how they can find out more. I know you have a big YouTube channel as well. Yeah. I think the easiest way, go to findbreaksystems.com in the upper right tab, you can book a call with me. And right now I have about a hundred thousand followers across social media. And so I'll keep having, book a call with me probably until I get to a half million or something like that. But for now, in the next several months, probably next year or two, you will be able to book time with me one-on-one to chat about your particular situation. We can figure out what of the multiple offerings that I have might make sense for you, if any, and we can go from

there. Now, I also have digital products that I made over the last several years. Maybe you're a shy person. You don't have the budget to really invest in yourself. Those are also available too, through my website. I made recipe books years ago because as I mentioned, I eat pizza, burgers, fried chicken and tacos, and I figured out how to make it work. It's shocking to me that five years ago when I was posting this online, nobody thought pizza could be a diet food, right? And I'm telling people, no, I'm not lying. I eat pizza like 10 times a week. I love pizza. And I just food, right? And I'm telling people, no, I'm not lying. I eat pizza like 10 times a week.

I love pizza. And I just ate a whole pizza 30 minutes ago before we started recording. And I'm gonna go eat a burrito when we get done for dinner. I'm gonna get it in your program just for the pizza. Yeah, like people don't realize that, okay, what's the difference between, is a sandwich healthy? What does a sandwich have?

It has bread, meat, cheese. Okay, what a sandwich have? It has bread, meat, cheese. Okay, what does pizza have? It has bread, meat, cheese. Okay, so what's the difference between the two? Like why is the pizza less healthy than the sandwich? And you know, it has to do with the macronutrient proportions, but you can adjust the macronutrient proportions

within any food item that you consume to shift it from something that you're likely to overconsume to something that you're not likely to overconsume. And all of a sudden, it integrates with an intuitive fitness system that doesn't require you to count calories or go hungry. But dumb people don't realize this. This is why I always say that fat loss is an IQ test, because you can do a lot of the things that you don't realize that you can do, you just have to question the dogma that you thought was true. Pete Slauson Yeah. I mean, we get, there's so much misinformation out there and you definitely

want to copy the success of someone else. Give us the dot com as we go out and people can onboard with you there. Alex Feinberg Feinberg, feinbergsystems.com, feinbergsystems.com. You can also find me, Alex Feinberg1, on basically every social media channel. My DMs are open, so if you want to connect there, you can, but then you can also fill in an application on FeinbergSystems.com and we'll figure out a way to link up. Off we go. Thank you very much, Alex, for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it. This is awesome, Chris. Thank you. And thanks, much Alex for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. This is awesome Chris. Thank you and thanks for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, one of the TikTok and all those crazy places. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that's the episode Alex.