The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Unlocking the ADHD Superpower: Transforming Struggles into Success with Stacy Pellettieri

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Unlocking the ADHD Superpower: Transforming Struggles into Success with Stacy Pellettieri Longislandcounselingservices.com Adhdtrainingcenter.com Podcasts.apple.com About the Guest(s): Stacy Pellettieri is an accomplished licensed clinical social worker with over three decades of experience. She is the founder of Long Island Counseling Services, the largest private psychotherapy practice on Long Island, providing a compassionate and inclusive environment for individuals and families. Stacey specializes in addressing challenges such as ADHD, grief, loss, trauma, anxiety, depression, and OCD, emphasizing a strong commitment to neurodiversity. She is an ADHD-certified clinician and an advocate for enhancing awareness and support through her newly launched podcast, "Why Do People Do That?" Episode Summary: In this engaging episode of the Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss delves into a rich discussion with Stacy Pellettieri, a renowned clinical social worker and mental health expert. Stacy, the founder of Long Island Counseling Services and the ADHD Training Center, sheds light on her commitment to neurodiversity and helping people navigate challenges such as ADHD, OCD, and trauma. Through her podcast "Why Do People Do That?" Stacy aims to share insights drawn from her extensive experience in psychotherapy and offer support to individuals and families. This episode is packed with insights into the often misunderstood conditions of ADHD and OCD. Leveraging over 30 years of Stacy's practice, the conversation touches upon the genetic and environmental facets contributing to these disorders. Stacey explains the intricate relationship between ADHD and OCD, elaborates on the societal misconceptions, and highlights the importance of embracing neurodiversity. With a focus on increasing awareness and understanding, Stacey discusses the resources available through her ADHD Training Center, offering nationwide coaching and educational programs. Key Takeaways: Understanding the link between ADHD and OCD can help identify and manage these conditions more effectively. Stacy embarks on a mission through her podcast to impart her knowledge and offer therapeutic insights to a broader audience. Neurodivergence acceptance is crucial; rather than trying to normalize ADHD brains, leveraging their unique strengths can lead to success. Many ADHD symptoms are rooted in executive function delays, while OCD often stems from the need for control. Therapy, self-awareness, and breaking generational trauma can profoundly improve life quality and interpersonal relationships. Notable Quotes: "Understanding why people do what they do, I think, is so important for our own growth." "Part of the problem with people with ADHD is that a lot of society is not neurodivergent accepting." "It's when you're fighting against it and you're trying to fix it… that it ends up being a struggle." "People with ADHD get 20,000 negative messages by the time they're 12 years old." "Therapy is so important… I'm trying to help as many people as I can in whatever ways I can."

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen there and ladies and gentlemen, that makes it official. Welcome to the big show.

As always, the show is brought to you by all the smartest people in the world. They come to you and share their journeys, their life experiences, their cathartic moments, the things they overcome, their teachings, their lessons, to make you smarter and brighter. So go to Goodreads.com, 4Chest, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, 4Chest, Chris Foss, Chris Foss1, the TikTok, and all those crazy places on the internet. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host

or the Chris Voss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Stacey Pelletieri. So, Stacey, welcome to the show. There's some things about you we want to take and discuss, and you have over 30 years of experience as a licensed clinical social worker. You founded Long

Island Counseling Services, the largest group of private psychotherapy, maybe this is the same thing, practice on Long Island to serve as a compassionate inclusive space for individuals and families across the lifespan from young children to the elderly. You specialize in supporting clients through a wide range of challenges, including ADHD, grief, loss, trauma, anxiety, depression, and OCD, or what we like to call around here my Saturday. Your work is deeply formed by a commitment to neurodiversity. You're an ADHD certified clinician, and you offer dedicated support to individuals and

families with those issues. Welcome to the show. Once again, give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Thanks so much for having me. So I just recently started a podcast, and that.com is YouTube slash WhyDoPeopleDoThat. My counseling center is LongIslandCounselingServices.com. You can find us on Facebook, WhyDoPeople.com. You can find us on Facebook. Why do people do that?

You can find us on Instagram. Why do people do that podcast? And we are, of course, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. And most importantly, in terms of ADHD, I do have the ADHDtrainingcenter.com. That's ADHDtrainingcenter.com. So why do people do that that's the title of course

yes podcast tell us about the podcast what you get into and some of the things you've you flesh out over there thanks for asking so why do people do that is something i just recently started and it's really based off of my passion for wanting to help people know some of the things that I know, because I attribute my success in business and my success in relationships and my success in happiness to really being my understanding of other people. I think that we go through life being so affected by others and what others do and what others think and how others are behaving. And we project our own stuff and our own thoughts and our own fears and our own trauma onto others in a way that we become so affected because we write these stories in our heads about what we think they're doing and what we think they're thinking and why they're doing

what they're doing. And we get so stuck in this mindset that it really trips us up as managers, as CEOs, as business owners, as wives, as husbands, as friends. And understanding why people do what they do, I think is so important for our own growth and for the growth of the relationships around us. Most definitely. I grew up wondering why people did what they did from a very early age. And it shaped me and, of course, it helped me try and learn human nature and everything else. And, you know, people do some weird stuff. Like you mentioned. They do.

You know, if they have traumas, if they have emotional damage. I grew up with ADHD, probably OCD. I would lock the door like 20 times in a night, constantly checking the door when I was in my teens. I had a few issues. I have the CO, I guess they call it the CO disease. So you help people. You're going to be on the podcast there helping people, talking about some of these issues. What do you find most people struggle with in trying to manage their OCD or their ADHD? Squirrel. Yeah, exactly. So do you know that it is not uncommon at all for people with ADHD to have OCD? They really go hand in hand. There's a pretty strong relationship there. And OCD is often rooted

in the need for control. And one of the things that people with ADHD struggle with is not having control. Psychologists have found that people with ADHD get 20,000 negative messages by the time they're 12 years old, being told, do better, you're not doing good enough, try harder. Everything becomes difficult because of all the executive function delays. And so there's this innate need to have control over some things. What can I master? What can I be good at? And so we will start to fixate in this locking of a door or washing of the hands.

And it gives a sense of calm and comfort but at the same time does the complete opposite of what you're looking to achieve and makes you feel completely out of control oh wow yeah so is that why is is adhd and ocd i guess is that developed you're in a say you're in a traumatic or you're in an let's call it an unstable environment in your childhood you don't know how to deal with it. And this is the way that you compensate for that. So what happens with ADHD? I find a lot of people with ADHD do come into treatment with PTSD. People have PTSD just from the mere fact that they had ADHD their whole life and it wasn't handled properly. One of the things people don't understand

about ADHD is it's not just about not being able to pay attention or being a little bit hyper. It's all the executive function delays, time management, organizational skills, cognitive flexibility, emotional regulation. And if you're growing up in a surroundings where maybe the parents don't understand or the teachers don't understand, which happens a lot, even when they think they know they don't know. And children are constantly feeling inadequate and feeling like things are too hard. And it creates a very negative relationship with self, which does create a trauma. And now there's a trauma response. Everything's hard for me. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm afraid to try this or try that because I'm going to fail at it. I'm going to suck at it. And so, this trauma creates the OCD that we're talking about.

Wow. That may explain some things from my childhood. And I have often wondered if this was genetic. I finally, in my early 20s, I was having panic attacks almost daily. And so, I finally went and got help and got on zoloft and started you know recognizing what my triggers were and some of the things that were going on with me um but i always thought that maybe it was genetic or some sort of failure of my system or you know my brother very early on had to be put on ritalin at a very young age and so it sounds like it's it's more about the trauma of that situation than it is about any of those other two items, right? In terms of the OCD? Yeah. I mean, OCD can be

genetic. There are definitely links to the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain and not enough serotonin or too much serotonin can definitely cause obsessive compulsive tendencies. But I do find with the people I've been working with for 30 years, a lot of the OCD is based in the trauma of the ADHD not being handled properly. Also, one of the executive function delays with somebody who has ADHD is cognitive flexibility. And what that means is the ability to shift your thoughts or your ideas. It's something as simple as a little kid being told, let's go to the park. We're going to get ice cream from the ice cream man when we get there. And then, oh my God, the ice cream man doesn't show up today. And the mom's like, oh, sorry, maybe next time. And a neurotypical child

might be able to say, okay, maybe next time. But that ADHD child that does not have cognitive flexibility is like, but you said. But what do you mean? And physically, their brain can't process this. And now they're having this emotional explosion because they can't deal with the emotional regulation of the disappointment. And there's all these executive functions that have to work together at the same time to be able to allow that child to handle what is happening for them. So now they're freaking out and now mom's freaking out. And now mom's yelling at their kid, cut it out, stop it. You're going to be punished. If you don't leave right now and come home, you're never going to get ice cream again. And now the kid's freaking out even more because poor mom really doesn't know what to do and the kid is dysregulated and and that in and

of itself is trauma because then the kid goes home that night they feel like complete crap about themselves why did i act out like this why did i do that why did i embarrass myself now i'm in trouble mom hates me i hate myself oh wow and that's where the trauma is rooted in these experiences, which are horrible for the whole family. Is that a generational thing or does that contribute to generational trauma or not? Generational in terms of how the family grows from generation to generation. It can be. Because are you talking about the DNA? So let me, it may just be through the experience, I suppose.

So let me pose a scenario. So a parent grows up with alcoholic parents. And of course, you know, there's some trauma there and some instability, yada, yada, yada. She develops ADHD, OCD. We should get into what the differences are of that, too. And then she applies that same sort of anxiety to her children and creates an unstable environment again in raising her children. And then her children end up with ADHD. That's kind of the generational trauma I think I'm referring to, if that's correct. I don't even know if that's, you're the problem.

Yeah. So, ADHD is definitely genetically based. It passes through families. My son has ADHD because his father had ADHD and his father had ADHD because his father had ADHD. So, it's definitely a chemical, a neurological. I mean, if you look at PET scans of the brain, you'll see that the prefrontal cortex of a brain with ADHD grows at a much slower pace. It's fascinating stuff. And you can definitely see that an ADHD brain has less dopamine than a brain that does not have ADHD, which is why people with ADHD are dopamine seeking. They're always looking for something to kind of light their brain up so that they can pay attention and focus and process better. Because you need dopamine to pay attention, but you don't have enough.

And so that's why with ADHD, you can hyperfixate on something that's super interesting to you. But the generational trauma piece is interesting that you bring up because if you go through family to family to family through, you know, a generation and ADHD probably traveled through that family from generation to generation, there's going to be reactions and responses to the ADHD that are going to create PTSD, anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, all of that, that then gets projected onto the children as well. Wow. So that absolutely is part of it. So you think it's part of its DNA then?

Yes, definitely part of it is genetics. It is what it is, you know, and as we grow and expand our, you know, population, there's going to be more and more people with ADHD, which is why we just always see these upticks in diagnoses part of its awareness and part of it is just we're multiplying and a lot of us have adhd so that's what happens yeah wow that explains it's growing it's spreading damn it it is we gotta figure something yeah but it doesn't have to be a damn it and that's that's why i founded the adhd training center because people with adhd don't have to be a dammit. And that's why I founded the ADHD Training Center, because people with ADHD don't have to suffer the way that they do. I think part of the problem with people with ADHD is that a lot of society is not neurodivergent accepting. They're trying to force the ADHD brain to be

neurotypical, and it's just not. But if we accept the neurodivergent person as they are and we help them to find their strengths and we allow their brain to be dopamine seeking and we teach them in ways that make sense and we allow them to flourish where their hyperfocus is, they can do amazing things. Yeah. I mean, they call it the ADH, they call it the CEO disease for a reason because a lot of CEOs, a lot of successful people have it. Yes. I can attribute, I'm pretty sure I can attribute my success to it in life, but I've destroyed a lot of shit too in the meantime.

Because you need to learn it, you know, because that's the thing with a hyper focus and the ability to be a risk taker and wanting to jump from thing to thing. That is what, you is what harnesses that success for ADHD people. And people with ADHD can be brilliant and creative and imaginative, and that's what lights up their brain. But the problem, the reason why you screw shit up is because there's that organizational and time management piece that can sometimes get in the way of being successful at something.

Right? Time management piece, yeah. Yeah, you've got time blindness. You don't understand how long something takes. That's true. can sometimes get in the way of being successful at something, right? Yeah, you've got time blindness. You don't understand how long something takes, right? That's true. What were you saying? I was looking at TikTok. And the TikTok, you know, you speak to, you know, finding that dopamine sort of thing.

I mean, I can get up from my desk and go to make a coffee or, you know, I don't know, make a protein shake in the kitchen. And I'll take my phone with me and I'll literally set up watching like a YouTube video or a TikTok while I'm just making a protein shake. And I'm constantly like, Chris, what the fuck are you doing? Is your life this boring or whatever? Do you have a need for this so bad? And the answer is yes. What's the difference between OCD and ADHD?

I've often wondered that myself. Yep. what's the difference between OCD and ADHD I've often wondered that myself yep so ADHD is a neurologically based you know diagnosis that means that your brain is lacking in dopamine and it means that you have executive function delays the prefrontal cortex like that front part of the brain where the executive functions live is slightly delayed there is also usually a 30% lag in development, which means that a 20-year-old really has the cognitive and emotional ability of a 15-year-old. And that's what ADHD is. It is absolutely neurologically based. It has to do with the executive functions. It has to do with dopamine, which is the neurotransmitter that gives

you the ability to pay attention and focus. And so if somebody has a delay in cognitive abilities and a delay in working memory and a delay in organizational skills and a delay in time management, that's why you see the symptoms you see in ADHD, right? Being late all the time, leaving something out and forgetting to put it away, having their stuff be a mess, forgetting that they're supposed to do something, not being able to pay attention, because you have to utilize all these executive functions at the same time, simultaneously to be successful in a task. Task initiation, emotional regulation, those are the other executive function pieces that are delayed with someone with ADHD. Now, OCD, on the other hand, is obsessive compulsive

disorder. So, you obsess about something, which could be just a thought rumination, like thinking over and over again, did I remember to lock the door? I don't know if I remember to lock the door. And the C part is the compulsion. The compulsion is I have to go and check. You have to go and check. Because if I don't go and check, I'm going to sit here and think about it all night, and I'm never going to go to sleep. I'm going to be up all night, so I'm just going to go and check. You have to go and check. Because if I don't go and check, I'm going to sit here and think about it all night and I'm never going to go to sleep. I'm going to be up all night, so I'm just going to go and check. But then what you're doing when you're checking is you're completing this biofeedback loop. You're giving the brain the message that the thought is the door locked is a real thought and a real worry that you have to be working on. So us therapists, we come in the

mix and we try to work with you people with OCD and say, let's do some exposure therapy. Instead of checking the door, let's not give into the compulsion. Let's sit with the discomfort of the obsessive thought, did I lock the door? And say, this is just your OCD. This isn't real. It's not a thought. It's not reality. You know you locked the door. You don't need to check again. Let's regulate your feelings. Let's let this pass. Let's not give in to the compulsion. And that is an effective treatment for OCD. But it's that loop of wanting to fight the anxiety of what the thought is bringing up by giving into a compulsion. So it keeps going in a circle over and over and over again. Yeah. Like I said, when I was a teenager, I would do that. I checked the door like 20 times and then I'd go back to bed and my brain would be like, was that last night or

tonight that we checked the door? And I'd be like, I'm pretty sure it was tonight. And they're like, what if it wasn't? And then you're like, what if it was, you know, my brother would wash his hands until they bleed. You know, he would do that for me, which I think is obsessive compulsive. But that makes sense. There's the compulsive nature of it. It's too bad you can't get like the compulsive part to merge with the procrastination part. Yeah, it would be so great if you could control it, right? But that's where treatment comes in to try to break that biofeedback loop between the

obsessive thought and the compulsion to kind of you want to start to master the idea of the fact that the obsessive thought is just a thought that's not reality and processing it and allowing the anxiety to pass so that you can start to desensitize yourself to the emotional response that you have to the thought it's a lot of work it's not easy so do response that you have to the thought. It's a lot of work. It's not easy. So do you have to say to yourself, no, I'm not going to get up. I know I checked the door. Shut the hell up.

Leave me alone and bugger off. Yes. And what I like to do with my patients, I like to have them name the OCD. Say, for example, you want to call it Bob, right? Shut up, Bob. Exactly. Shut the fuck up, Bob. it's a callback joke we do we blame bob for everything well let's blame bob i i do it all the time too yeah we always name

our fucking bob yeah it's always fucking bob yeah yeah but that actually helps patients that i work with fucking bob you're a bully i'm not not going to listen to you. And they're able to separate reality from the rumination and they start to recognize the rumination. And then they're able to desensitize themselves to the emotional trigger of the rumination. So they no longer have as much of an urge to give into the compulsion and they can break that loop. It is hard, but if you're dedicated and you have the right support, it is so helpful. Now, you have the two websites that you have. You have the therapy on Long Island. Do people in the ADHD Training Center, on both of the services that you offer, do people have to come to you at those locales or can you coach and service them nation or internationally?

So, with the ADHD Training Center, we do a lot of education and coaching, which can be anywhere in the world. With Long Island Counseling, because it is therapy and we're bound by the New York State Education Department and then all of the state's regulations, we can only help somebody in the state where we're licensed. So a lot of it is New York State-based in terms terms of therapy but if anyone's looking for coaching education parenting approaches groups classes that we run the adhd training center is national and so what if if you have ocd can you help people with ocd and the hd um we do we do help them yeah we do help them you know and it's a combination with the ADHD training center because our coaches, our executive function coaches are working with people with ADHD who have all of the executive function delays and cognitive is so helpful for them you know we we make them aware of bob

and we work with them and that becomes part of their coaching goals and it is really really helpful freaking bob it's always yeah yeah but yeah i guess i guess turning it off you know i just finally had to i just said to find this to just fuck it like i don't care if they come in they murder me then that's fine with me you took their power away that's what you did that's what we got to do yeah me right above their power yep i i just finally gave up said i'm sure i'm sure everything will be fine once i drink this at the diddy party and it's 2025 people that's where that joke comes from if you're watching yeah on youtube what haven't we talked about that you guys are doing are you on your interviews you're doing

in your podcast are you bringing other professionals on? Are you doing like client therapy maybe in person? I don't even know if that's allowed in HIPAA, but what are you up to there on that? Yeah. So a little of both. I was really excited last week. I actually had a really close childhood friend come in who allowed herself to be vulnerable. And we talked about patterns, how to break patterns. Why did we get, we know what we're doing sucks for us, but we're doing it anyway. And so she came on and it ended up being a therapy session, which people are loving it. And they're finding it so fascinating to watch her share her story and be so vulnerable. And they're watching me sort of analyze her brain at the same time, which is so fascinating. I do bring in examples of clients I've worked with over the years in a lot of my

pods, but I do change the details around just to protect their privacy. So we talk about examples and we talk about things. One of the pods I did a few weeks ago is just about how to be less affected by others. And we talk about this concept of how we're constantly, all of us have issues and we're all carrying around what I called it on the pod was we're all carrying around a bag of shit with us. And we are just tossing our shit at other people. We're projecting our stuff onto others. We're writing stories about what we think they're doing and we're getting angry and we're getting upset and we're getting frustrated. And so one of the things I've learned as a therapist is that, you know, what's helped

me be so successful in life, in happiness, in relationships, and as a business owner is really to be able to see other people for who and what they are without my own shit getting in the way. And it has been, I think, probably the reason why i am a happy successful person because i don't let other people shit mix up with my shit and i don't throw my shit at them i have this glass wall in between me and them where i'm really able to shield myself from their stuff being projected onto me and i'm able to see them for who they are and not write stories and assigning meaning to all of their behavior so that i'm walking around feeling victimized and angry all the time.

That's good. That's a good place to be. Yeah, it's a great place to be. I think everyone should be there, which is why I started the podcast. Why do people do that? So it is definitely psychoeducational, but also really we're trying to bring on other experts. We're trying to bring on real people to share real stories. So it's really a mix of everything just to give people the insight they need on themselves and others so that they can have healthier relationships. Now, would you call that setting boundaries? Yes.

Yeah. So is that actually what you need to be doing is setting boundaries? Sorry, we're not going to put up with this anymore, that sort of thing, I guess. Yeah, it's about not putting up with it, but it's also about having a real deep understanding of the other person so that we don't even feel that there's something we're putting up with. It's just really seeing the person without projecting your own stuff on it and having clarity to say, you know what, That person wasn't late picking me up because they don't care about me and they're not excited that I came home.

That person's late picking me up because they have ADHD and they have time blindness and this is just who they are and I'm not going to be hurt and upset by it anymore. So it's boundary setting, but it's also really being able to see the other person without internalizing what's going on with them and making it about you. Oh, so that's what it is. It's making it, it's trying to understand them and then focus on the understanding of their nature. How do we, how do we, you know, because we have these skitomas, these blind spots where, like you say, we see things through our lens as opposed to other people's. How do we know when we're seeing clearly through an understanding of another person and then when we're painting them with our rose-colored sort of demented glasses, if you will? Yeah, good question.

It really comes from self-awareness. And so one of the things is if you're finding yourself very triggered by somebody else and you start to become aware that you're writing a story about what you think they're doing, then you have to kind of take a pause and say, have I given myself the space to be curious about what's going on with them? Am I aware that what I've just made up in my head about what they're thinking is really just what I'm thinking. And what from my own past, what from my own traumas, what from my own experience am I putting into that person's experience and their behavior that is really more about me than them? And am I projecting? Is this what I think or is this what they think? Whatever I think they're thinking is really just what I'm thinking. And having more awareness about yourself and where your inner child might be jumping into the room and painting pictures about other people's behaviors can really be so freeing, believe it or not.

And does it help to resolve those inner child issues, those early traumas? It seems like, you know, I run a big dating group. And so we talk about, you know know all of our issues in dating and Relationships and it seems like just everything goes right back to childhood some sort of you know Emotional damage trauma the blueprints from parents where they had a mother or father in the home How that impacted you the quality etc etc the masculine the feminine It seemed like all this stuff really goes back to childhood. Maybe the best thing to do is try and resolve that so that you do see through clear lenses. Is that a thing? Yes. Oh my gosh, 100%. I'll tell you, 30 years doing this, the most effective therapy I do with my patients over the years, and we're probably talking thousands of people at this point,

how long I've been doing this. The most effective therapy has been the psychodynamic work that i've been able to do with people that are really able to dig in and go back peel the onion get to the core do inner child work do parts work and really understand the different parts of themselves that show up every day and react to things it's life-changing when you're really able to do that it's hard work but it's so worth it you know i told people that when you get triggered by something that's usually an indication that you're operating out of reality i don't know if i'm no psychologist so you can throw rocks at me um i agree but yeah you're operating out of reality and that's reality challenging you going you you live in a state that is diluted that isn't operating reality and that's reality challenging you going, you live in a state that is diluted, that isn't operating reality.

And that's why you're triggered is because it's challenging the truth of your lie that you tell yourself. I guess I'm not too far off there, huh? Not at all. I mean, that's 100% accurate, actually. If we are super triggered by something, the best thing we could do is pause and be curious about it. You know, huh, that really set me off. I'm having a stress response to that. I'm having a trauma response to that. What is it about that? What part of me is showing up here? You know, and how old am I right now? I think that one of my biggest successes in life has been being aware

of the three-year-old that pops up inside of me in certain situations and then wants to take over and make decisions for me, which is never a good idea. It's not, it doesn't end well. You shouldn't let them drive at the very least, drive and drink. Definitely not. For three-year-olds. No. But yeah, do we ever overcome that where if, let's say I go to therapy

and I get my trauma and my stuff resolved, are we still always going to use that as a default, that childhood semblance? Here's the thing. That inner child might always pop up. My three-year-old still pops up for me time to time, but I see her. I'm aware of her. I feel her, and I do not give her control. She doesn't make choices for me anymore so you're not going to erase your past you're not going to erase your experiences or your memories

or the things that bring up those emotions that are real and authentic and should be a part of who you are but they don't control your responses they don't trigger you to react in ways that are now going to be counterproductive. So absolutely, with the right work and dedication and a good therapist, and really being able to do the work yourself, you're definitely going to see a change. Yeah, definitely. That's why people, they needed, all the stuff I learned in school was pretty much worthless for me, at least being a business owner and stuff. There's so much stuff we should be learned in school was pretty much worthless for me, at least being a business owner and stuff. There's so much stuff we should be teaching in school. We should be teaching.

We should be getting people shit fit, right? They should be going through some sort of therapy, even in high school, I think, or at least college. Because, you know, then they just go have kids and they drag it to one thing to another. And then, you know, I've seen people that they've been a mess they're doing the same patterns through four to five divorces or marriages and you're like you're like jesus if you would have got this fit people always say to me chris what would you go back and tell your teenage self or whatever i'm like go to fucking therapy get get healed you're fucked up in the head dude people always surprised by that like They're like, seriously?

That's what you, you wouldn't tell yourself to buy Bitcoin or something? It's like, no. Maybe that too. Maybe, yeah. Why not both? Bitcoin wasn't around when I was 16. So there you go. But yeah, it's important to measure these things.

ADHD, I mean, if you can learn to control it and focus on it, it's great. I was really lucky where the last few years, a couple years ago, the last few years, it seemed to have disappeared with my old age because I'm just getting slow and my brain doesn't function anymore because I'm 57. Your brain caught up probably. Your prefrontal cortex is grown. Your dopamine levels are where they're supposed to be at your age. Yes, a lot of stuff is outgrown with age. Here's the problem. I had low testosterone, and so a year and a little over a year, a couple months ago, I got on testosterone replacement

therapy, and that ADHD came back like a mother effer. It came back, back hello it's us again we're back did you miss us and i was like no i did not so is that is that a dopamine thing maybe that's coming from the thing or yeah you mentioned some you mentioned dopamine dopamine shortage is there is there like a pill i can take to kind of balance that out maybe or something? Or is that crazy talk? Yeah, that's Ritalin, right? The stimulants. Oh, duh. Ritalin, Adderall, those are all medications that release dopamine.

And that's why kids take it to pay attention because it's giving them the dopamine. You need dopamine to pay attention. But you can release dopamine naturally by doing the things that release dopamine. So one of the things I work on with kids who have ADHD and executives and adults to be able to be more successful is know when your dopamine is getting depleted, take a five-minute break, do something that releases dopamine. It could be fidgeting. It could be bouncing a basketball. It could be watching your favorite video. It could be whatever you do to excite yourself. Doesn't matter to me. Do what you do. And then after the five minutes, bring yourself back into your work and you will now have more dopamine in your brain and you'll be able to focus and do

what you need to do when soul starts to deplete again. So there's actually a technique called the Pomodoro technique. You focus for 20 minutes, you take a five-minute dopamine break, you focus for 20 minutes, you take a five-minute dopamine break, you focus for 20 minutes, you take a five-minute dopamine break. As long as what you're doing during that break is something you can transition away from to get back into your work, it will help you to focus a little bit more. But yeah, I mean, if you don't want to be on one of those stimulants, critalin or Adderall, Welbutrin, things like that. There are other, the SNRIs are used off-label because they do attach to the dopamine receptors in the brain

and they do help people because they're giving you the dopamine. They do help you to focus and all that stuff as well. That's why I just stick with cocaine. No, don't do that, folks. That's a callback to the show. It does that too. Yeah, it does do that. This is pretty interesting.

The Pomodoro technique? Yeah. This is a time management method that helps people work more productively by breaking into 25-minute intervals. I like that. Yeah. I like that. I'm going to have to look into that and try that maybe tomorrow or next week or the week thereafter. That's what we do as executive function coaches, right?

Is we work with people like you who are successful and smart, but all this stuff gets in the way. So we teach you how to use techniques and learn the tools that your brain doesn't have naturally on its own. I love it because I was really enjoying not having ADHD for several years. I think about 50, it fell off. It just was like, I'm out. And I was like, see ya.

Good, good luck. I'm have had enough of you. And I was like, this is kind of nice. I actually kind of like this, but you know, you need testosterone too.

So that's kind of important. You can't win. Damn it. That's what you do. It's, it's, it's interesting. I mean,

can you fully heal from it ever? Could you ever fully get rid of adhd like completely you cannot but here's here's my advice here's my advice is don't let it be your enemy let it be your friend if you really learn about it and you you get the good coaching and you have somebody really work with you to help you where your struggles are, it doesn't not have to be a nightmare for you. But the reality is, is if we accept it, okay, this is it. This is how my brain works. What's really unique and special about my brain? Where's my strengths? And how can I learn the skills and tools that I need to strengthen the executive function delays that I have, it doesn't have to be a nightmare. When you're fighting against it and you're trying to fix it and you're trying to

make it go away, then it ends up being a struggle, right? Acceptance, right? Acceptance is crucial in order to let it just be something that helps you be successful in life. Yeah. My only problem is the ADHD moved back in, but it won't pay rent. You have to allow it. Let it be your your friend so if you let it live with you right let it live with you say how does this you know how does this help me where is this a strength for me where is adhd my superpower and what tools and strategies can i try instead of just saying make it go away yeah f it get out of here instead be like all right, all right, here you are. I see you.

What can I do with you? That's, I think, a more effective approach. I need to, but the problem is it keeps stealing the covers in the bed, too, which is really annoying. Yeah. So, what have we talked about that we want to tease out about your podcast, about what you do there at the different facilities you're running and helping other people? Okay. So I think most importantly, why do people do that is a really great resource for having a better understanding of yourself and others to have a healthier relationship with yourself and others. I'm sure everybody out there has wondered at least once or twice,

why do people do that? And that's why we're here, to answer those questions one at a time. And in terms of the ADHD Training Center, all these things we're talking about, I am so passionate about trying to help people understand their ADHD and helping parents understand ADHD and educators understand ADHD. I do a lot of training and education because understanding it is really the key to being able to exist a healthier life with it. Long Island Counseling, it's therapy. We've talked about therapy.

Therapy is so important. So if you're looking for therapy and you are in New York, we're definitely around for you. But ADHD Training Center is national. And of course, why do people do that as a podcast? Anyone could watch. So I'm trying to help as many people as I can in whatever ways I can, because it's so important to me. Yeah.

The one thing, like I say, I see a lot of repeating in is in dating and relationships because, you know, I'm single and, and we run these huge dating groups and we, we try and have these meetups where people meet in person as opposed to the scam of the dating apps. And, and so it's worked really well, but know you see people that you know they'll say to me chris i i fall in love with the same person i get in the same bad relationships i date the same bad guy and you know but i'm repeating these negative patterns just over and over again you know how do i get out of it and i'm like i don't know That's why you have to talk to people like you. So that's actually our last episode that we just dropped. It's repeating patterns.

And that's where I had my friend come on because she has been repeating patterns and dating the same guy. And she's a smart, beautiful, successful person in life and in her job, but she does keep dating the same person. And we talked about that and it's really all rooted for her and for many people in childhood traumas. It's a secondary gain. We gain something by going after that type of person. And you want to get to the root of what does that person and that relationship do for me? What is it trying to sort out for me that I'm not learning and that I'm needing to repeat over and over and over again. So it is definitely rooted in those different parts of you that show up that are working against you. Like we talked about before the inner child that we're giving

control to, you're giving control to that broken part that's showing up and making bad choices. I heard this on TikTok the other day, so clearly it's true. I don't know if it's true or not, but this gal talked about how if you're, if you're dating someone and you're getting those incredible sort of, you're falling in love really quickly or you're, you're getting, I'm not sure how she put it, but you're, you're getting all those, you're getting those crazy sort of feelings for someone really quickly. It's kind of, it's more trauma bonding than it is really being in love. Because being in love and relationships, you know, it can be boring. It's not all butterflies and, you know, super exciting all the time. But some people, they live for that up and down of a bad relationship the drama of it and stuff and she's she's like no if you if you if you find yourself getting in a state early on then it's probably telling you that somehow your trauma

bonding if there's issues i don't know if you have any thoughts on that that are yeah absolutely um when you find that love bombing is going on and you're just like, you know, we talked about it last week, you know, when you're jumping immediately on another person, all the things you've been through and making sure that, you know, let me tell you all the things I've been through so that you, I know you accept me and you're not so excited and they're like, oh, I've been through that too. Oh my gosh. And it's that codependency of needing to be needed, needing to be admired, needing to feel special, needing to be accepted. And it feels so good. And then you end up crashing because you're trauma bonding and you're not really getting to know each other and getting into the relationship for the right reasons. It's about the need to be needed, the need to be important, the need to be, you know, all the secondary gains we talked about before. You know, there's a need there that you're looking to be met by the other person and you think you're in love with them, but you don't really even know them and they don't even know you. It's just more, it feels so good to be with you because you accept me and you need me.

I heard once that we recreate the scenarios and blueprints that our parents gave us so that we can reconcile the failure parts of it. Assuming there was failure, maybe the whole thing was a failure. But we recreate it by finding partners that had the same similar traumas. And then we go try and resolve those those failures that were in the relationship the and the problem is usually by integrating the the people that have the damage the emotional damage of the trauma into that relationship you're not going to get different results you're going to get the same results is that true or not yeah a lot of is it's what we call in therapy reenacting.

You know, people will take these experiences that they have. Like, for example, say they have a father who abandoned them in their childhood and a mother who was emotionally abusive. They will go into relationships seeking out people, you know, subconsciously, not knowingly, that are, are you know rejecting them all the time so that they can show and prove that they're special enough and important enough to be seen because just having somebody who loves them and sees them feels uncomfortable and unfamiliar and uncertain to them and it's scary for them they want that rejection they want someone pushing them away so they could chase after them because there's a certainty and familiarity to it. And then there's that opportunity to say, I was special enough to keep this person this time. And they don't really feel worthy of the more comfortable and the healthier love relationship.

Wow, you blew my mind with that. Because we see a lot of that in dating with the chat chasing and the people dating out of their league. Social media has made it so people are really dating out of their league. And so you see these people that are like, I've seen ones chasing 10 guys. I mean, there's 10 sort of Chad sort of level guys, one being the females level, and they're chasing him. I mean, sometimes they're 20 years older too which is kind of weird they're dating down as women and you're just like what is going on with you like why are you chasing these men that you have no chance or shot with i mean you

unfortunately you know as with men you know we will have sex with somebody that we don't we're not in love with so sometimes they trade the the hook of the hookup culture is just really crazy right now and so they'll trade the hookup culture sex for you know oh now i've got a shot at this guy i can get him to pair bond seems like there's some confusion too that that men pair bond like women pair bond and they don't and so they're they're they're offering up the sex thinking that that works because it works on women. But it doesn't work on men. You can give us sex all day long.

We'll just keep consuming it because it's great for us in how our brains react to the completion of sex. And so, wow, you're just really open to think because I just see women that are just, I call it a Chad chasing addiction. And one of the challenges that we have in our group is a lot of people that are in their 60s, Chad chasing 40-year-old guys. And then come crying to me about how these guys, they had sex with them, but it didn't turn into a relationship. And wow, you just nailed it, what you're talking about there. It's almost like a validation for them to get rejected it might be yeah they might be seeking out somebody subconsciously that they know is going to reject them just so that they can keep repeating this pattern that's familiar to them over and over and over again and they're they're looking for a different outcome and it's never going to

happen because they keep chasing after the same person wow yeah see now what i do is i chase people that i know i'll reject and that way i can always be single see how smart that is that's what you want then that's brilliant give me all the red flag communist parades bring them on bring them out there yeah yeah i just i just go to red flag communist parade.com and find find my dates that's where i pick up everybody which is i think is also called tinder uh so give us the dot coms we go out we've had a great discussion on a lot of things i've i've i've learned some new things and uh really important in life and give us a shoot us out your final plugs as we go on. Yeah, absolutely. So, Why Do People Do That podcast is on Apple, Spotify,

wherever you listen to a podcast. It's also on YouTube, which is youtube.com slash at why do people do that. We're on Facebook, just why do people do that. We're on Instagram, why do people do that podcast. My counseling center is longislandcounselingservices.com. And my ADHD training center, which is nationwide and globally, actually, we can help anybody anywhere, is adhdtrainingcenter.com. Thank you very much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. Boy, we learned a lot. I'm going to be sharing this with my dating group. Yeah, great. Tell them they need to call you. I'm just going to sign everybody up for your email. I'm sure they can check out the website, too.

The podcast, that's what I meant to say. So thank you very much, Stacy, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you. And thanks, Ron, for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, Chris Voss 1, and the TikTokity and all those crazy places on the internet. Be good to each other.

Stay safe. We'll see you next time.