The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – WARHOLCAPOTE: A Non-Fiction Invention by Rob Roth

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

WARHOLCAPOTE: A Non-Fiction Invention by Rob Roth An enthralling play based on lost tapes between two cultural giants and friends—Andy Warhol and Truman Capote. In 1978 Andy Warhol and Truman Capote decided to write a Broadway play. Andy suggested that he record their private conversations over the period of a few months, and that these tapes would be the source material for the play. The tapes were then filed away and forgotten. Their play was never completed. Now, award-winning director Rob Roth brings their vision to life after a years-long search to unearth the eighty hours of tapes between two of the most daring artists of postwar America. WARHOLCAPOTE, based on words actually spoken by the two men, is set in the ’70s and ’80s, toward the end of their close connection and not too long before their untimely deaths. Their special, complex friendship is captured by Roth with bracing intimacy as they discuss life, love, and art and everything in between. Every word in the play comes directly from these two 20th century geniuses. The structure of the conversations springs from Roth’s imagination.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com, thechrisvossshow.com. Hey, welcome to another exciting version of our podcast. Version?

There's no versions to this podcast. There's only one version, The Chris Foss Show. That's why you should always recommend it to your friends, family, and relatives. The Chris Foss Show. The family that loves you but doesn't judge you. Maybe slightly. I don't know. It depends on if you meet me in person and if you're wearing Crocs or not.

Anyway, oh, crap. We just lost Crocs, our sponsor there. You know what? They probably would sponsor the show. I don't know. They're always welcome. We're just giving jokes to the Crocs people. You guys make fine luxury shoes.

Anyway, guys, be sure to go to LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, all those crazy places kids are playing. Refer to the show to your family, friends, and relatives. Tell them to sign up and get on the show. Today we have an amazing author on the show. We only have amazing authors. We put them in the Google machine, amazing authors, and then we invite them on the show,

and they come out with their latest, hottest books. They come to a steaming right off the bookshelves, but only wherever fine books are sold. I'm not sure why you would be in a bookstore where the books are steaming. That might be bad. Check your fire alarms. Anyway, guys, he is the author of the newest book that just came out September 20th, 2022, Warhol Capote. That's one word. A nonfiction invention. Warhol Capote. Let me get that right, because I don't want get that right because I don't want people Googling Warhol Capote, that's one word, as the book title. So Warhol Capote, A Non-Fiction Invention by Rob Roth.

And he's on the show. As you've heard, he just intervened there in the background to correct me on the correct title of his book. So there you go. I just want to make people sure when they Google, you know, they Google correctly. Rob Roth was nominated for a Tony Award as Best Director for his Broadway debut, Beauty and the Beast. I think that was a story about me, wasn't it?

No, I'm just kidding. It's not. Which became one of the top ten longest-running musicals in Broadway history. The show has been seen by over 40 million people around the world, winning the Olivier Award. Is that Olivier Award? Olivier. Olivier Award.

Clearly, I skipped drama class in high school. For the best musical in London, Rob went on to direct the world premiere of Elaborate Lives, The Legend of Ada, collaborating with Sir Elton John, he's amazing, and Sir Tim Rice. Rob directed the Broadway musical Lestat, based on the Anne Rice Vampire Chronicles, with a score by Elton John and Bernie Taupin.

Wow, just a great collaboration there, especially, geez, John and Bernie Taupin. Wow, just a great collaboration there. Especially, geez, writing, Bernie Taupin. Rob frequently directs rock concerts, collaborating with legendary artists including Kiss, Alice Cooper, Dresden Dolls, Cyndi Lauper, and guitar legend Steve Miller. I want to fly like an eagle. Rob is an avid collector of rock and roll graphics, and his collection is showcased in the Coffee Table book, The Art of Classic Rock.

Rob and his husband, Patrick, live in New York City with their Labrador Retriever tag. Welcome to the show, Rob. How are you? I'm great, Chris. How are you? I like the introduction to your show. It's a little bit of Kiss in there. You got it. Oh, I love you love you man you got it uh a lot of people don't get that uh get that uh correlation there you wanted the best you got the best us members of the kiss army will definitely know but you work with some great people and talented people uh give us your plugs your dot com so people can find you on the interwebs. No, no. There's no internet presence for me.

Wow. Nope. You know, I'm too busy listening to music and listening to my records and collecting my posters, and I don't have time to do that. So, nope. There you go. This is as most internet as I'm going to get, Chris. Well, you can go to Amazon or wherever fine books are.

Oh, yeah. Sure, Amazon.com. We're the number one book today in plays. Very happy to say it. Congratulations. Thank you very much. So what motivated you on to write this book? It's a little bit of a long story, but I'm going to

tell it to you in brief. Rosie O'Donnell is a friend of my husband's. And in 2007, she invited us to go on a, they call them family cruises. So it was gay parents and their children would go on a cruise for a week. And when she asked me, I thought, I don't like children and I don't want to be on a boat. So I just said no. And when I told Patrick, oh, you know, Ro asked us to go on this cruise, but I said no.

He said, hey, you know, maybe you should have asked me before you declined. He was studying to be a psychologist. He is now a doctor, but he was studying then. And he said, you know, I could really use a week on the boat. I could really study for my New York State medical reports. So I called Ro back and I said, you know, we're going to go. And she said, great. And I thought, what am I going to do on a boat for a week?

Like, it just didn't have any appeal to me at all. And so I bought myself a copy of the Andrew Warhol Diaries by Pat Hackett, which came out in 1989. And I have read it 20 times. But so I bought a brand new copy, brought it to the boat. And one night while we were in our cabin, I was on the balcony. I read an entry and it said, went to Truman's apartment, got six good tapes for the play.

And I had read the diaries before this had never landed on me, you know, but now I'm like, wait a minute, play? Tapes? What? And that started this whole big search for me for did Andy and Truman actually make recordings together for a play? So I went to the Warhol Foundation in New York City. And I spoke to Vincent Fremont, who was a friend of mine and was Andy's right-hand man all through the 70s and right up until his death.

And I said, Vincent, do you remember anything about this? Andy talking about a play? And he went, yeah, yes, I remember them talking about it. But, you know, they talked about a lot of things and they were kind of drunk. And, you know, who knows if they ever did anything and anyway all of andy's tapes that he recorded are at the warhol museum he put me in touch with someone there and the archivist at the warhol museum said yeah we have 3 000 holy crap yeah holy crap uh audio cassettes that are under embargo. We're not allowed to even look at them until 2037. Why?

Why? And he said, I can't tell you why you have to go back to the board of directors of the Warhol foundation. So I went to the board of the head of the board. His name's Joel walks. He's still the head of the board. And Joel told me that when Andy died in 1987,

they found all these 3000 or more cassettes. And Andy recorded surreptitiously. So he had a recorder in his pocket. He called his Sony Walkman his wife. Wow. And the wife is with me. And he had it going for 10 years. He recorded everything.

And in the 70s in New York State, that was illegal. Oh recorded everything. And in the 70s in New York State, that was illegal. Oh, okay. One-way recording. So the lawyers for the Warhol Foundation decided just to embargo the tapes until 50 years after Andy's death and let lawyers in 2037

deal with it. So my adventure was kind of finished before it started and i was moping around the house wow uh and i realized oh wait a minute truman knew he was being recorded because they said they were working on a play so i said i called the world foundation back i said joel i don't mean to be a bother but tr Truman knew he was being recorded. That means both of them knew. Does that change anything? And he said, no, I don't know,

but let me go back to the board and talk to the lawyers. Unbelievable. My luck, the photographer Cindy Sherman and the filmmaker, John Waters, Pink Flamingo's family, they were on the Warhol board, and they were very adamant that I'd be allowed to pursue this. They thought, you know, hey, Rob is onto a piece of art that

Andy was working on. We should help him try to find the tapes. So I was given permission to hire someone to search through all 3,000 cassettes. Just look at them. Couldn't play them.

Uh, and they found 59 90 minute cassettes that said Truman in Andy's handwriting. Wow. Yeah. And so I got permission to digitize those tapes, court reporter transcribed those tapes. And I ended up with 80 hours of tape and 8,000 pages of transcripts. Holy crap.

Yeah. And then when I started listening to the tapes and I was reading along, you know, the first five that I listened to were just them at a party. Like you could barely understand anything on the tape. Sometimes you hear like Truman say something to Andy or Andy say something, but they were just at a party, like you could barely understand anything on the tape. Sometimes you hear like Truman say something to Andy or Andy say something, but they were just at a party, but Andy recorded it, put Truman on the thing. Then I got to maybe the 10th tape, which was then I think it's studio 54. Cause you could hear the

beat thing. And Andy says, I'm paraphrasing a little bit here truman we should work together and truman says oh that would be interesting what should we do and andy says we should write a broadway play so then my hair was standing up on my arms you know and they talk about what it should be about and eventually andy says Truman, can't I just tape you? And can't the edited tapes be the play? And Truman said, that's exactly what we should do. Because the play will be both real and imagined. And if you look at the work of Andy Warhol and Truman Capote,

their work is real and imagined. Andy took a real picture of Mauro Monroe and filtered it through his imagination, and it came out the Mauro. Trulia Capote took the real murder of a family, the Connor family in Kansas, and filtered it through his imagination, and it came out in cold blood. I took their actual words, every single word in the play they spoke, just not in the order that I've put it in. So I made up conversations that never actually happened.

But every word of it they said. So that's why I call it a non-fiction invention. So it's called the non-fiction invention. That was one of the questions I had for you as to why you chose that title. And, and so basically you've, you've taken their words and almost like an editor turned it into a play.

Yes. Correct. Wow. That's pretty exciting. Thank you. It was really, they gave me the instructions on the tape and I put that into the play. So it starts with them talking about, Hey, we should work on a play and what we should do. So yeah, it's really kind of meta and kind of cool. And I feel like I did complete a work of art that they began together. And so I'm proud of that and excited that the world gets to hear them in their own words.

Isn't it interesting how in life if you listen carefully you you discover these things i mean you really you really tripped over something you know and just uh serendipitously almost uh you know uh you found a way into that and it's just amazing how that developed it's it's wild that the tapes are locked out. I mean, it sounds like the JFK. Remember how JFK was locked out for 50 years or something? No one could talk about it. It's like, what's going on there? Hi, folks. Chris Voss here with a little station break. Hope you're enjoying the show so far. We'll resume here in a second. I'd like to invite you to come to my coaching, speaking, and training courses website.

You can also see our new podcast over there at chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com. Over there, you can find all the different stuff that we do for speaking engagements, if you'd like to hire me, training courses that we offer, and coaching for leadership, management, entrepreneurism, podcasting, corporate stuff. With over 35 years of experience in business and running companies as a CEO, I think I can offer a wonderful breadth of information and knowledge to you or anyone that you want to invite me to for your company. Thanks for tuning in. We certainly appreciate you listening to the show and be sure to check out ChrisVossLeadership in. We certainly appreciate you listening to the show.

And be sure to check out ChrisVossLeadershipInstitute.com. Now back to the show. And it's too bad more of that can't come to light. I'm really hoping that as the play goes out into the world now, because it just got released this week, that someone will digitize the rest of the tapes. Even if we can't listen to them right now, they need to be preserved. Oh, yeah.

Something that the Warhol Museum and the Warhol Foundation are wanting to do. And I hope that I can help them somehow find the money to at least preserve them, if not with tape now. Yeah. Can you imagine what's on those tapes? Holy cow.

Andy Warhol in the 70s in New York. You know, wow. In Studio 54, yeah. Oh, candy Warhol in the 70s. You know, wow. In Studio 54, yeah. Oh, yeah. And Hollywood. It's going to be just amazing. Yeah. Probably all sorts of people on there. Oh, well, that's the whole problem.

All sorts of people doing all sorts of 70s fun things. Well, I mean, they weren't doing anything bad in the 70s and studio 54 that was of course some drugs or something some yeah rolling stones there's i don't know uh there was some fun going on in the 70s i hear uh so there you go uh but no this is really interesting so um it's turned into a play now. You're releasing it as a play? Yeah.

We performed the play at American Repertory Theater up in Cambridge at Harvard. And now I hope that it will have productions all over the world, I hope. Nice. It's a nice, simple two-person play. And, you know, they are, of course, two of the great geniuses of the 20th century.

And so to hear them talking as the friends they were, they became at some points very unguarded. You know, I think they forgot the tape recorder was there, honestly. And so they get to talking about you know they talk about liza and cocaine and all the things that you think they're going to talk about cocaine in the 70s you say no way um but they also talk about you know the pain of being an artist and what is the cost of making art and why do you make art um and i think they were both uh even though they were super famous and very wealthy people they were not happy people

and i think that they thought that if they worked really hard and put out a lot of art, that it would make them happy and maybe make them less odd. But fame didn't make them less odd. I think it made them more alone and more odd. Do you find that, Chris? Because you're famous. Well, kind of. You know, I found the more successful I got, the more problems it actually created. And the more money you make, the more it amplifies whatever your problems are that you got from

childhood and stuff. And even worse, it can – what's the right words I'm looking for? It can codify your baddest, your worst instincts to go, well, I clearly have money, so I can't be wrong and a horrible person. And then you run with it. So, yeah, you'll learn. You'll learn things when you're young. But, you know, I mean, part of being an artist is the suffrage. I'm trying to think of a quote that someone said about being an artistry and examining yourself, Naval, and the misery of it. I mean, who is it that cut off their ear?

Vincent Tango. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the suffrage of it. It's the human experience, I suppose, in lots of ways. Yeah, I think that a certain amount of suffering does create art. I'm happy that I didn't, you know, they were geniuses and suffered a lot. I'm happy just to be mildly talented and only mildly suffering. Well, I hope, just remember, it gets better.

That's what I always tell people. So this is really great. I mean, you poured through, what, 80 hours of tapes or more. What is that like trying to compress that? How long is the play? It's about 90 minutes, 85 minutes. And so what's it like to try and compress that all and edit that all down? That's a hell of an editing job there.

Yeah. It was because I didn't have a deadline. This was my own project, my own idea. I didn't even know when I got the tapes if I was going to be able to make a play. So I decided to just enjoy it. I'm the only person in the world that's heard these tapes. Both the foundations were very, very serious. Like, hey, you cannot play these for anybody. There's a lot of other people.

Did you have to hire a special master? A special master to guard me? No, a special master. It's a legal term we've all learned recently by a certain president where they have to hire a special FBI person or judge in between that listens to the tapes. No, I didn't. I got direct access to listen to them myself. I guess I was the master.

You were the special master. There you go. So it was really cool. I'm lucky enough to have a beach house out on Long Island. And I went out there and I had my headphones on and the transcripts and I just listened and kind of circled things that I thought were interesting. And what was interesting to me was personal things. And I went like, uh, and fun and they were really funny too. Um, and so I did that, that took about almost a year. And then I went back and listened

to it again a second time and really highlighting sections, you know, and I ended up pulling out of the tapes 222 sections and I named them, you know, Studio 54, Liza, Art, Cocaine, Sex, you know, whatever. All the good things. All the good things. I gave everything a very short title and put them on index cards. So I had 222 index cards

and I started shuffling the cards like, okay, this seems like the beginning of a scene. This seems like, oh, the end of a scene this seems like oh the end of a scene this seems like the end of the play uh you know and i knew that i wanted to move from lighter friendship kind of conversation to more personal and so i i arranged the cards into an order that i liked and then i ended up going back to the transcripts and pulling out those sections and making a draft of the play. I think I did that probably 20 times before I felt like I was ready to have a reading with two actors.

And when you hear actors read it, you learn a lot. Oh, really? Yeah. You know, actors bring their humanity to it. And they would say, this feels like a conversation. It feels like we're jumping. And so I'd go back and find a linking piece of conversation. And so I did that a lot until I wound up with what we have now

and is in the book, which is an 85-minute version of this play. And again, every single word they spoke. That is awesome. That is awesome. What actors did you go with, and why did you choose them? We went with Steven Spinella, who won the two Tony Awards on Broadway for his role in Angels in America, and Dan Butlerler yeah he people

know him from fraser ah he was the um kind of um obnoxious white sportscaster guy and he was andy and steven smith And they were wonderful. Really, really great. And they brought a lot to the play. So this is going to be pretty interesting. Do you see the play moving to Broadway? I hope that it goes to Broadway or the West End or both. I'm at the stage right now where I'm putting the play out in the world this week and I'm letting it go. And then what's going to happen is going to happen, I think.

Right? You have to trust. Sometimes you got to let the universe decide. But I mean, you've had great successful plays in the past. So I'm sure this one is going to be amazing. And of course, it has these brand names that everyone knows about and are amazing artists. Wow, they are brand names.

And you have something that is so unique. I mean, you're going to probably, you know, I don't know if you're going to pass away in the next 50 or when does the tapes expire? 37? 2037. 2037. You know, it would really, I'm with you. It would be really interesting if they could release those sooner. So what is that like like, what is it, 35 or 15 years from now?

So we only have 15 years to wait. You're going to be able to walk around for the next 15 years going, I'm the only guy who's ever heard the private commerce say, that's a hell of a badge of honor. Thank you. I feel very, very fortunate and very privileged. I had a big responsibility, too. Both the states trusted me that I was going to not manipulate their words into something that they weren't saying. Do you know what I mean? I was careful to be true to the spirit of their conversations.

And one of the things that I did, I think was clear up, make them, their conversations clearer. You know, Truman was drinking and doing a lot of drugs in 1978. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

I was seeing those videos of them at the, what was the warehouse they had where they had? His warehouse where they would party? The factory. Yeah, the factory. That was it. Yeah. You know, I don't think that Andy was a big drug user, but he certainly was a drinker and not shy about it. And so their conversations, you know, if two drunk people get together, the conversation can kind of loop around and come back again.

And so I cleared it up. There you go. So I think I made them a little bit clearer. Maybe you should have called it Warhol Capote, a nonfiction sober invention. Yeah, you know, they were definitely not sober. And part of the story of the play, I think, is that at one point, Truman goes to rehab. And he says, Andy, will you call me up? And Andy says, of course I will.

And he says, no, really, will you call me? And they get kind of serious. And Andy says, well, sure, of course I will, Truman. And Truman says, I wondered. uh and they get kind of serious and he says well sure of course i will truman and truman says i wondered right so it's so sad because they're friends but still truman is unsure you know um yeah um and he did try to call him up and couldn't get through they wouldn't you're not allowed to talk to people in react oh wow especially your partying friends yeah for sure right i would think that they discourage that

that's funny as hell no i i just mean uh the sober invention because you you know you edited it down but uh yeah i made them clearer i don't think I made them sober. Well, this is pretty amazing. The book is going to be amazing. Hopefully it will go on to win some of the awards and accolades that you've done there. I love what you did with Kiss and Elton John. I've seen both of them in private concerts with JBL and Harmon Carden. They do an annual private concert where it's just a thousand of their favorite people. And I've seen both of them very intimately.

And just extraordinary musicians. And of course, I grew up with listening to both of them. Yeah, well, me too. So for me, as an artist, it's kind of crazy. I've been working with Alice Cooper, Elton, Steve Miller. These people, KISS, their posters were on my bedroom wall. So that feels really, really amazing. And then, you know, I've been Andy and Truman nut since I was a kid, too, like just obsessed with them and so to get to have my name on a play with them uh is really kind of pinch yourself time yeah it really is um and yeah and everybody go see the kiss farewell tour uh end of the road it's awesome we blow up a lot of stuff it's so funny because i

have like kiss tour books and tickets and shirts from the kiss farewell tour i think in the how old am i in the 2000s yeah when they it was when they put the makeup back on they started yeah redoing the makeup so how long that is it's probably a long time ago shameful that was in 97 i think it's a 97 oh yeah i was trying to fudge there in the 2000s but yeah i mean i grew up when all this stuff was big on the radio, even the tail end of Cyndi Lauper, Steve Miller, Fly Like an Eagle. I remember when that was played ad nauseum on FM radio. Yeah, and it should be.

Oh, yeah, it's the greatest music ever. It's so funny how all of today's music samples that era of music. And, you know, Kiss, I remember, you know, I spent my teenage years in Utah. And so, you know, Kiss was the Knights of Satan's service or something. People were like, you're part of the devil. And, you know, Alice Cooper, of course. I first saw Alice Cooper on Schools Out for Summer with the Muppets. Yeah.

Fantastic. I was like, cool, the Muppets are satanic. When I first met Alice, his manager, Shep Gordon, flew me over to London to have dinner with him to talk about directing a tour. And Alice and I went shopping. Really? He likes to shop, yeah. So we went to Camden Town Market, which is north London.

And we found a video booth that was selling bootleg videotapes of concerts. And we found the Billion Dollar Babies tour video. Really? Yeah. So I was like, oh, my God. My parents wouldn't let me go. I was too young. And so we bought it.

Or actually, the guy gave it to us because they recognized it was Alice. And we're going back to the hotel. And Alice said, do you know, I've never seen it. I've seen pictures of myself. But I've never actually seen the film of the Billion Dollar Baby story. Do you want to watch it? So I'm like, yes, please. So we go back to his room and we sit down, we pop the tape in.

And the concert starts with a song called Hello, Hooray. And he comes out in a leotard. It's like all bloodstained in the crotch area. And he's holding a bottle of Jack Daniels and he's kind of lurches to the front of the stage. And he said, Oh my, Oh, wow. I really, this is degenerate. Yeah. Yes. He said, I would never let my kids see this. Your parents were absolutely right.

And we were laughing and we watched a little bit more of it. And then honestly, he was a little disturbed by it. He's like, this is really, I mean, he said, I wasn't that drunk. I was acting drunk, you know, he said, I was a little drunk, but I wasn't that drunk. But, and so then we were laughing about how my parents wouldn't let me go. And so he said, let's call your parents. So I called my parents.

They knew that I was in London meeting Alice. And he got on the phone. He said, it's Alice. I have Rob now. Which was just awesome. He's so funny. He's the greatest, greatest guy. And it's become a really dear friend. Yeah. I mean, he seems like a really nice guy.

Oh, he is the nicest man. He has the nicest family married to the same woman. For a long, long time. And great children, not spoiled, not, you know, really cool. And he's a great artist too. Uh, you, you know, really cool. And he's a great artist too, you know, still touring. And yeah, he's really awesome. So yeah, I feel super fortunate to have worked with Andy and Truman, even though they're dead, I did collaborate with them on this very personal piece of art, which is, you know, amazing.

Yeah. My parents were Mormons, so I wasn't allowed to listen to, you know, satanic rock and roll. Right, sure. So I had to have tapes, and I would hide them in a vent system so that I could have my ACDC tapes and my Kiss tapes and everything. Yeah. Does that make it better?

Kind of. I think so. I don't know. my Kiss tapes and everything. Yeah. Does that make it better? Kind of. I think so. I don't know. Forbidden fruit thing. Yeah. I remember my scout master used to loan me the records for Alice Cooper, and he had a whole collection and a lot of other records and stuff. And so I would take and play them when my parents were gone.

And I remember one time I bought a Motley Crue record, brought it home. It was Shout at the Devil. And my mom discovered it and made me take it back to the store and trade it in. And I went back a week later, re-bought the album, and got my neighbor to tape it for me. You know, these are the days. Kids today, they don't understand the suffrage. Yeah.

They just go on there turn the little ipods and yep different now you know having albums um i think you mentioned this in the introduction of me to me i have um the biggest private collection of classic rock graphics of the world i have probably 10 000,000 pieces. Yeah. Holy crap, dude. I've been collecting since I was a kid. And then as an adult, it just got crazier and crazier. Now, you know, today I just got from the Netherlands, Alice Cooper muscle of love promo poster, Netherlands only. Oh, wow. I'm like, I've never even seen it. You know, I doubt that Alice has seen it. So that's all kind of exciting. Like, you know, and I'm such even seen it. I doubt that Alice has seen it. So that's all kind of exciting.

And I'm such a big geek. I'm sitting at my desk here and I'm going to hold it up. Rolling Stones 1981 laminate backstage pass. Holy crap, dude. Crazy. Oh, I've got. Oh, and then I want to show you one more thing when i was a kid uh i was part of the journey journey are you really serious yeah wow i was i was 17 years old

and i wanted to interview steve perry do you know who steve perry is yeah singer the greatest singer in the world. Yeah. I wanted to interview him for my high school newspaper, and Columbia Records laughed at me. They were like, they're not going to talk to you. Sorry, you're in high school. And I said, hey, everybody at the concert last night was in high school.

What do you mean they're not going to talk to me? I'm the reason there is journey. Yeah. And she laughed, and she said, I'm going to call their manager. He's going to say no, but I'm going to make the call for you. And instead the manager, Herbie Herbert, a very, very famous rock manager said, absolutely haven't come to the concert on Friday. I'm going to be there. I want to meet this kid too.

And so I met Steve Perry and I did a short little interview with him. And then I met Herbie. And, you know, I was in theater and I wanted to know about how they move the rock tour from city to city. And he said, you know, if you really want to know, here's my card, call the office and you have to come to a load in at six o'clock in the morning and see how we put it all together. That was on a Friday night. On Monday, my parents let me me cut school take the car and drive to maryland uh and go to a load-in and i got a laminate and i was on the journey tour whenever i wanted from then on oh my god dude i'm so jealous yeah it was cool and you know by 1981

they had the escape album which had five number one songs and And I was there. Wow. Watched it explode. That is awesome, man. It was cool. I learned a lot. That was so great. You and I both grew up in that era where that was every fifth song on the radio, between Steely Dan and Journey. And Journey was my favorite band.

Then I kind of moved to Rush. But Journey, it's always been Journey and Rush, those two. Now there's a little bit of Metallica in there. But yeah, Steve Perry, I have a lot of issues with him leaving the band, and there's a whole thing there. But yeah, it's

just an amazing singer. I mean, I can't even listen to the new Journey. I just can't. I can tell. I totally don't either. I can tell the difference. I mean, you just can't replicate Steve replicate steve perry or any no you can't do you know what the difference is in my opinion heartbreak yeah steve perry for whatever personal issues he had or has there is heartbreak in his voice then when he sings it connects to people in a way that i think judy garland had it too like there's some kind of singers and they have something in their makeup um and we were talking about andy and truman they were very heartbroken people too yeah there's

something uh and though it's very hard on the artist, it can make for great art. You know, when I first saw Steve Perry, a friend brought me to a Journey concert in 1980, departure tour. I had heard any way you want it, maybe on the radio that year. Seeing him sing live was, oh my God, it was like seeing, I don't know, the eighth wonder of the world it was like something incredible um and i know i think i've been to a hundred steve perry journey shows probably and he sang great every single time um and i would venture to guess part of the reason why he stopped is it hurts to sing with that much heartbreak oh yeah and he's And he's got quite a range, too. Yeah, amazing range. Yeah.

I was heartbroken. I loved his solo work, a little bit of solo work. Yeah, me too. Yeah, the recent album I wasn't a big fan of. No, his voice sounds good, though. The songs weren't as good as the Journey songs. Yeah, I think you nailed it. The heartbreak wasn't there.

The real heart isn't in it. I don't know. amazing artist steve perry if you're hearing this please come sing live sing anything sing gershwin songs that's kind of that's kind of what i missed about steve and kind of why it was irked a little bit is because he just disappeared and i love this solo work uh in fact i have a lot of private things you know it's funny we've we as we've gotten old we've uh we've all done this thing where we we collect all of our stuff like i have a huge rush uh i think some journey uh collections and albums and you know stuff that just oh yeah well i've gone to an extreme it sounds like you have uh as we go out

uh how was it what was like working with sir ellen john and uh bernie tompin am i pronouncing to an extreme. Sounds like you have, man. As we go out, what was it like working with Sir Elton John and Bernie Taupin? Am I pronouncing that right? Yeah. Elton and Bernie were wonderful. We adapted the Anne Rice musical, Anne Rice book, The Vampire Lestat.

The production itself on Broadway was halfway successful to me. We didn't totally nail it. Elton and Bernie nailed it though. The songs are wow. Gorgeous. Um, they're just lovely and talented and, uh, and you know, uh, my mom and dad scalped

tickets for me to go see Elton John when I was 11 at Madison Square Garden in New York in 1976. And I got to lean on the stage, you know, in the front there. And then to be working with him, you know, pretty crazy and unbelievable. And he's been a dear friend and i'm like a real friend uh you know uh i remember i mean elton john was just always on the radio when i was growing up and of course uh there may be some of the maybe some elton john and some of those uh andy warhol tapes maybe uh they talk about elton john in the play uh yeah i think he was a studio 54 too. Or there, he was. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Angie says, I went to Madison's regard to see Elton John and my God, is he fat?

What the hell? So I did, he said he was wearing a silver cap, skin tight, calf tan, and he was fat, but the audience loved him. Yeah.

There's something about singers that, that can sing with that level of heartbreak and just convey the message well uh you know one of my favorite i grew up in the age of of course where uh john lennon was assassinated and uh empty garden is one song that will always come back to me about elton john uh because it was such a beautiful uh uh dedication to to John Lennon. Beautiful lyric from Bernie and beautiful performance from Elton. Yeah, really. Incredible.

Yeah. Amazing. And just to touch on, you mentioned Judy Garland. Judy Garland took that song, Somewhere Over the Rainbow, and I remember seeing her on Carson talking about it. And back then they had to pay her because she was in so much debt to the i think the irs but she talked about it and i i can't remember if she'd gotten over alcoholism at the time or not but you could you could just feel the pain as to how much had gone into that song and

how much it had really encompassed her whole life that almost might be a play in and of itself but her her life and and that her she talked about the connection to that song and it may have been like some other interviews i saw but it was really interesting to see how much of that really went into her performance of that song the pain and agony of a lifetime of of almost being yoked by that song from the from the movie yeah you wonder how as a 13 year old girl she connected with that much longing and dreaming of getting out of herself. You know, hearing her sing it as an adult is different than when you hear the movie version of Over the Rainbow. Still, she has heartbreak in the voice.

Yep, interesting thing. Well, it's wonderful that you bring these wonderful things to light so that you can inspire others and everything. I guess go buy the book on Amazon. It's the.com we want to promote. Yep, Amazon.com, Warhol Capote, one word. There you go. Thanks, Rob, for coming on the show. Chris, this was so fun.

You're very, very smart and very, very entertaining. Well, we grew up in the great age together. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I might look you up and say, hey, can I come look at your rock and roll library? very, very entertaining. Well, we grew up in the great age together. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I might look you up and say, hey, can I come look at your rock and roll library? Oh, my God. It's insane. It's so insane that Jimmy Page came over to look at it.

Did he really? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I have that much Led Zeppelin stuff. Damn. Yeah, that's a whole other. We could be here for hours talking about that. I know it. Anyway, Rob, thank you very much.

Everyone go check out the play, order the book, wherever fine books are sold, but stay out of those Alibaba bookstores. You might need a... I got mugged in one last week and I had to get a tetanus shot. Go wherever fine books are sold.

Warhol Capote, a non-fiction invention by Rob Ross. Thanks for tuning in to my audience. We certainly appreciate you guys being here. Go to youtube.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. Go to goodreads.com, 4Chess Chris Voss. Go to all of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and all those crazy places the kids are playing these days. Thanks for tuning in. Be good

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