The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Wylie McGraw, Performance Accelerator & Leadership Strategist

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

Wylie McGraw, Performance Accelerator & Leadership Strategist Wyliemcgraw.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks it's voss here from the chris voss show.com the chris voss show.com welcome to the show guys we certainly appreciate you whoa whoa whoa we can't even start this. We can't get off the ground here. We got somebody in the back there.

Way, way in the back. Yeah, that one gal. You got to put your seatbelt on and wear your... Yeah, yeah. We can't start this whole thing. It's it. You have to keep your hands and arms and legs and all that kind of crap. Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in.

We certainly appreciate you guys being here. And everyone's welcome, especially that person there in the back. That one next to him, though, I'm not so sure. Security should check that out. Anyway out anyway guys thanks for tuning in uh as always put your arm around that friend that relative that person you care or maybe just some guy you met in the street maybe he was under a bridge somewhere and put your arm around them maybe don't if they were under a bridge and say have you subscribed to the chris v Show? Have you joined the family that loves you but doesn't judge you? Because that's the best kind of family there is, the non-judgy family.

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We're on there. Also going to our big group on LinkedIn, 122,000 people. And the LinkedIn newsletter, that thing is killing it over there. We love LinkedIn. Today we have an amazing gentleman on the show. Wiley McGraw is on the show with us. He is the founder of Radical Performance Acceleration. And for well over a decade now, he's been behind the scenes doing life-altering work with powerful CEOs, entrepreneurs, leaders, and public figures, accelerating their performance both personally

and professionally. His work is the proverbial Navy SEAL training equivalent to high-performance leadership development, pushing even the elite beyond their limits, so they not only hit their peaks, but sustain it. He has been named a secret weapon by some of the most influential leaders across industries from Wall Street, Hollywood, professional sports, Fortune 500 companies, personal development, and everything in between. Welcome to the show, Wiley. How are you? I'm doing fantastic, Chris. Thanks for having me, brother. Thanks for coming. We certainly appreciate you coming on the show. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs.

I say that one more time. My.com? Yeah. WileyMcGraw.com. W-Y-L-I-E. McGraw, just like the country singer Tim. If people don't know that, then they can Google it. But yeah, WileyMcGraw.com. That's my go-to place. You got a nice deep voice.

You could probably sing, too. Do you sing? In the shower. Okay. Maybe in the car, but annoying my wife here and there. But yeah, I do attempt it from time to time. I only sing when I'm captured by the enemy. You name anything, my wife.

So tell us more about you, Wiley. What do you do and how long have you been doing it? Give us an origin story, I guess, if you will, of what got you here and what your upbringing was and made you want to get in this field. Into this field, origin story. Well, the WileyMcGraw.com, I write about it extensively. For me, being here with you today, Chris, and your audience, to share a little bit more about my background is how does it actually benefit the audience more so than talking about just Wiley McGraw. And so they can go read about it there if they'd like to. But I grew up an athlete. I was a star athlete, a baseball pitcher surrounded by pros that my dad was connected with as a semi-pro ballplayer himself. And I love the game. I love the challenge of improving myself constantly on a daily basis,

finding all those knacks and those inner strengths, et cetera. But as I got older, I started to feel the pressure and realizing I was playing the game for the external validation and the expectation of my father and others and not for the love of the game myself holistically. So when I started to experience that, I would say fracture in my mindset, I realized I needed to move in a different direction. And I started to seek out things that were actually my own, more challenging, more and more of that experiential environments

that really would push me beyond my own limits. And that's where I found the world of bull riding and bull riding became the seductive draw that was very different from the world of baseball, where you have that fundamental focus. And, you know, I mean, it can be dangerous at times, but not like the world of bull riding. And I found as a competitive bull rider, it required me to be present, mind, body, spirit, emotions, intuition, and finding every aspect of who I was in the most extreme situations so that I can complete each ride that I engaged on. And of course, I'm riding in a wild animal, so that in itself is inherently dangerous.

But what was beautiful about it was it helped me find that more holistic environment that challenged me to become more of who I wanted to be. It introduced me to that version of myself that made me feel alive. And I realized in that moment that it was in these environments that we were really stretched, that we can truly actually become more of who we are, not in some fundamental systematic approach to our own performance. So for me, I got excited about that. And I decided to move from there and join the United States military. I served with the 101st Airborne Division as a combat infantryman, three tours overseas. And in the middle of the war as a team

leader, I found this knack, this innate ability of mine to be able to see and experience blind spots in performance and be able to improve it drastically so that we can actually accelerate in our ability to perform as a team. And what it actually takes for us to stay grounded, focused, and very aware of every aspect of who we are and how our lives affect our ability to perform and stay focused. And then I took that on the road when I got out of the military, down the path of self-mastery, started to study, learn more about myself, deal with and battle through the internal demons that I may have been carrying around, et cetera, and then get to the place where I can build something of my own, radical performance acceleration to provide this for leadership out there in the world. And I've been doing that for the better part of almost 14 years now. That's awesome, man. You know, the military, I studied some of the

be no do stuff from the military because I've got some military friends and when I was writing my book on leadership and I hadn't been exposed to be no do, but it's astounding how, I mean, it shouldn't be astounding, but it's very cool how the military really teaches leadership and individual leadership. And of course, it has a very different mechanism than the Russians where, you know, people can make decisions on the ground and in troop sort of formats. Right. And that's beautiful. I'm glad you brought that up because it was an experience that really put you in a position

where you were actually not in control of what you thought you were in control of. The military from training all aspects of who you are, especially in combat arms, Navy SEALs, Rangers, airborne infantry like I was, et cetera, we're put in these holistic environments that may have some form of a framework, but at the end of the day, we're pushed beyond our limits mentally, emotionally,

even spiritually at times to really stretch and become that elite operator in what it is that we do, which is why we're so efficient as United States military service members. And leadership, you learn your own unique style of leadership in these kind of chaotic environments. It really doesn't give you the opportunity to take your time and step back and kind of go through your own process and feel slightly uncomfortable and then pull away if it's too much. In those moments, you don't have any choice. And I love that about the military.

The bull riding prepared me for that. But then being able to do this now with the leaders that I work with is creating this holistic environment for them, challenging them in real time from all angles so that they can actually exponentially go past even the limits that they've already experienced themselves, which is why powerful people come to me

because of the way in which I work. These people have created all this massive success. So they come because something's still missing in their life. They work with some of the biggest names in the world. But then like, why do I still feel like there's more that I can accomplish for myself personally and professionally? And then when they find me, they realize, okay, I haven't been challenged the way that matches my capacity to perform, not in the right way, not in a real world environment, outside of my control where I'm unconditionally vulnerable so that I can experience exponential growth in my wealth, my impact, and my bottom line.

How many years did you do the bull riding? Half a decade at least. Holy crap. I knew this guy that I worked with at work who was a bull rider, and I think he had to give it up. He had a bull punch his hoof through his chest. Yeah. And he's like, it up he had a he had a bull punches hoof through his chest yeah he's like come up you can push on it and you're like i don't want to push on it you could push on it it's like it was like a bull in his chest there but that's it that's a hell of a

sport man it is it was a sport quite an experience yep it should be present i tell you it definitely it challenges you to despite the potential death or injury you can get, and I've been injured a couple of times doing it, it didn't matter. What mattered most was the draw to that kind of challenge where you're pushed beyond your own brink and being young and growing and wanting more and really caring about being the best version of myself. And I realized that these things, these environments are actually lacking in today's personal development space anyway. So that's why I built what I did because I saw the gap in performance and leadership and I wanted to fill that. And that's why I was behind the scenes. I, you know, for me, I focus on my work, Chris, I don't, I don't care about a following. I don't, I don't, I'm not necessarily focused on how many people know about my work specifically more so than the right people find it. And I've been asked to come out here, talk to people like you and just share it with

the leaders that are out there. They're like, Hey, look, I want to, I want that too. You know, we need, we need a lot of external things to push us. Like I'd been going to the gym now for eight or nine months. And after about seven months in, I started watching more videos about bodybuilding and working out because I didn't want anybody catching me watching videos of other dudes have their shirts off. So I'd walk into my office and be like, oh, what's going on here, Chris? Yeah. What's going on? And I'm not shaving anyway.

I just, you know, whatever. But, you know, I mean, that's great for some people. Let's put it that way. But, you know, I was like, you know, I don't know. I always, I was never a gym person up until 53. I never went more than a week to the gym. But discipline was a real big thing. But having, you know, I learned that, you know, maybe I've been wasting maybe six months of some of my workouts by not doing them maybe right to get the ultimate performance or return on building muscle and bodybuilding.

And so we need that external stuff. Why do you think that's so important that we need an external helper, advisor, or coach in some cases? I know you call yourself a coach. Yeah, but that's fine. The titles don't matter to me either. You can call me whatever. It doesn't matter. But that's a great question because human beings are programmed to find the path of least resistance. Our psyches are designed to protect us from things that make us highly uncomfortable, that scare us. We haven't really progressed or evolved, if you will, as much as our technology has evolved. And that's why people are drawn to

the ease of coaching programs and systems and the concepts of transformation that make them feel excited about things transforming. But when it comes to real challenge that pushes them beyond their own limits or capacity, it's like my, one of my favorite quotes is that I live by, operate by, and I perform my duties in the work that I do by is you only truly know someone when you fight them. That's only then you can judge their character. And at the end of the day, humans are adept at being able to mask their true intentions. They're really good at being able to hide and pretend everything's good and that they've got it all figured out.

But when you stretch someone, push them, you pressure them in the way that they can't control, they reveal who they really are. And that's the only way you're going to actually get yourself past limits. So going back to what you said, why is it that I wasted this time in the gym? And why do I feel like I'm not getting the most out of my efforts? It's because there's a part of us that inherently only pushes so far and we need somebody or something that literally will hold us accountable in that discipline in those real moments that things are starting to become hard and difficult so that we can in fact stretch beyond that own limitation that our mind likes to give us. And that's the biggest part is we are an overworked society when it comes to mindset. We don't actually give ourselves enough

effort to build more of our strength from our intuition, our emotions, you know, our spirituality, et cetera. We, it's all about mindset, mindset, mindset, and we overwork the mind and then we get caught up in this rat race. Is that, is, is, is being too much in the mindset, being kind of too much in the fantasy phase as opposed to the application phase? Is that why? I would say that's a good way to put it. It's the sugar, caffeine high of thinking that things are going to get better because you have the thoughts and you have the mindset built up. But the application, like you said, that's the lacking part. And when people don't get put in the positions that really scare the crap out of them, things really don't change the way they want them to.

If it shocks you, it'll change you. If it doesn't, it won't, despite how much you might believe or fool yourself otherwise. Yeah. That's why I just got married for the seventh time because situations that scare me. Okay. There you go. No, I mean, one of the, I've had, I I mean, I have one friend who is a big believer, and I think it comes from a TED talk, but he's a big believer in not really so much his mindset, but doing.

And he believes that if you state, you know, hey, I'm going to do this, this is my new goal, the brain kind of shuts off and goes, oh, you know, you've done it. Okay, well, you've announced it, so it going to do this. This is my new goal. The brain kind of shuts off and goes, oh, you know, you've done it. Okay. Well, you've announced it. So it's kind of done. It's kind of like when you stand close to a book, you think you've read it, you know, books and they think they read it. Right. Education by osmosis. Yeah. Yeah. Civilization. Yeah. There you go. So it's kind of interesting. Like for me, you know, even if I don't feel like going to the gym, it's about discipline. Like I think I might, I don't like tattoos, but I might actually get a tattoo called discipline just to remind me of dumb ass. You know, I mean, if I don't feel like going to the gym, I drive myself to the gym.

I mean, if I don't feel like going, I, you know, I'm just like, I don't know, man. Maybe can we just skip today? I'll be like, nope, we're going to drive. And sometimes it may be a little off chemically, you know, where maybe my diet is just my stomach doesn't feel right or something or you know i just i just feel like maybe i'm a little sore and i drive myself to the gym and i'll go there and i'll just kind of slowly start going through my routine and then eventually it kind of kicks in mainly because i you know i i took uh like a ton of caffeine. Right, right. And that kicks in.

You're just like, yeah. And there's a bunch of people charged. Yeah, plus there's a bunch of beautiful women at the gym that you're like, hey, if you ever want to get with any of those beautiful women, you better work out. Yeah, I like what you said, but it's sometimes the act of just move can shift things. And that, again, people will hesitate. I've worked with some people in the personal development space of influencers and public figures that even being with them in their lives, at their homes, et cetera, watching how they operate, I've seen them hesitate and procrastinate on things that they absolutely need to do in that moment that they're feeling highly uncomfortable, that when I hold them accountable in that moment and push them beyond that limit,

it transforms transitions into unbelievable results that they didn't even think was possible. So I tell them sometimes picking up the phone and just making the call, despite even connecting with the person, driving to the gym and sitting on a machine for a moment actually moves the energy. It gets you into a new position to really experience. You might even be uncomfortable with sitting at the machine going, I really don't want to be here. And even if you only do a couple of reps, you did something to move yourself beyond that feeling of that limit that you are already placing on yourself. Yeah. I learned a long time ago, eat the best way to

eat the elephant is one bite at a time. And sometimes you just gotta be like, just take the bite and get that down the, know chew that up get that down and then do the next one and then and then when they wake up you're like hey the elephant's gone which is what we're trying to do with the elephant size that i'm at if i may real quick chris if you consider this though what does our society teach us though it's like we have to grind and push everybody wants to eat the entire elephant right nobody wants to get go through the process of actually becoming the best version of themselves so that they can experience the ease of eating

that elephant. Plus you need barbecue sauce for it. It's really good. Or hot sauce or something. There's a lot of chewing because it's tough. But you know, I'll see people, they're like, I spent all week on my vision board this week. And you're like, what?

All week? Why don't you just go do the damn vision board this week. You're like, what? All week? Why don't you just go do the damn vision board? Like, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I do. It's capacity. It really is. We're all at different levels of capacity in our ability to perform and operate.

We have, you know, people that are running these small businesses that want to be over here at this level of, you know, Bezos or Elon Musk, but they don't understand that maybe your capacity is not meant for that. So if you give yourself permission to slow down and get more present and grounded with who you are, where you're operating, where your, your blind spots might be getting someone who's willing to actually dig into it with you, get into your life with you versus just come to you

from the outside in from their own understanding of things, try to solve your problems that way, but have somebody, a resource that can really see it challenge you, you might experience this exponential movement in your business and in your life and get to where it actually makes sense for you. And you might find satisfaction in that itself. Yeah. Presence is a word you use a lot. Talk to me about why that's important and why you use that. Say that one more time, Chris. Presence. Presence. Presence. Well, think about the asymmetrical advancement of our technology. We haven't evolved as fast as technology has. So people's minds are being overworked and overwhelmed and being bombarded by tons of content.

And everybody's got advice and everybody knows what's going to be the next best thing to take you to the top of your game. And everyone has some opinion on this, that, or the other. And it's changing the chemical structures of our mind and it's transforming our attention spans. So people are constantly in this idea that, again, they get caught up in the concepts of mindfulness and balance and focus and clarity and presence and grounded and meditation, etc. But if you look at their lives and how they're operating, and leaders are guilty of this as well, they're too caught up in the movement of getting somewhere else and not being fully grounded in the present of who they are in that moment

and where they're at. They're trying to do something else. And that, to me, is an indicator that something is off internally and they're not looking at it. There's something they've swept under the rug. There's unresolved stress. There's things that they've carried their entire life through their careers that they're not internally and they're not looking at it. There's something they've swept under the rug. There's unresolved stress. There's things that they've carried their entire life through their careers that they're not addressing and dealing with.

And it's keeping them separated from their ability to be happy in the moment. And they're trying to find and fulfill it by achieving something else. Yeah, it's hard to be present. I didn't realize how bad my ADHD was and I wasn't being present. And for a long time, I really struggled with it. I finally, a friend of mine said, go read Eckhart Tolle's book and the power of now, I think it was. And that made a real big difference. It's a good book.

Yeah. And being able to be present. And I still fight with it all the time because you get lost to stuff. And then it gets worse as you get older because sure um time moves like i don't know what it is it got worse this year for me i always heard that you know in your 40s and 50s you know time moves faster and you won't notice it for some reason you know maybe it's because i don't have a wife and kids i you know i'm i've always kind of been present you know i can wake up during the day and go i don't know what the hell they want to do today the you know

sometimes my dogs wake me up and they're like, wake up, give us treats. But other than that, they, you know, I just, I do my thing. But man, this year really kicked in. Like I can sit here, like it could be like half an hour before a show and I can be like, I got a half an hour, read the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, you know? And then like, yeah, I'll be like, yeah, it's probably what five minutes went by or something. And you're just like, you're half an hour. What?

Yeah. So there's some times they get to the end of my day and I'm like, what the hell did I do today? I get it. And you're just like, I had to do this. And yeah, but I think a lot of people, they live lives that are far more complicated than mine. And I couldn't afford all the divorces. So I'm still saving up for my first divorce, then I'll get married.

But, you know, I think people have so much going on in their lives between everything, trying to balance, chasing kids around, that it is hard to stay present. why it's important for people that are in those positions to find something or an approach or a strategy that really supports them, given the fact they have a family and they have a business or a job, et cetera. And I understand that. I also do think and see that a majority of people also create a lot of their busyness in their lives because they don't know how to be fulfilled with the simplicity of life, even with kids. Because I know people that have children that are very present and focused and do not overwhelm themselves because they've got to a place of balance. But it's this incessant world of, I need to make money and I need to do something big. And we get caught in this busy work. Leaders do it too. Public figures I've met, celebrities, athletes, I've been around them all

that showcase that they have a busy life and busy schedule. And then when I come into it and I see what's really going on, I'm like, you're not as busy as you think you are. Your mindset is overwhelmed and you're burned out. And you've been thinking that these little things are more than what they really are. And then when they find that resolution in the work we do together and they find the peace that they've been longing for it's almost as if their businesses start to flow even more effortlessly the money grows exponentially their relationships improve their health transforms and they it's it's unbelievable to watch the reaction of like i have been killing myself all these years because i'm expected to be this way yeah not because i want to be this way yeah life life makes a whole lot more difference

when you make it simpler. You know, I built a lot of companies and had lots of employees. And then when my partner and I separated, I was able to lean down to very thin business model and not have to take on so much crap. I replaced him with a secretary, which is how much work he was doing. And it really changed my life and got me more grounded and back to the same. Yeah, we get, we get, we get so, we get so caught up in silly silliness. You know, I got me people. They're like, I'm really focused on today. I want to get to email zero. And I'm like, why man?

Don't you have enough to do today? Like there's like, it's gotta be 500 fires. You can put out to Dave. Sure. You go spend like, if I, if i went to email zero i got what 167 552 emails here that's just on one account you know there's a cover this is the company account too so i mean i i can't imagine spending days like mucking that up and i've been known to like i don't know spend a little too much time on tiktok or watching ever heard videos or johnny johnny depp trial videos i've been known to like, I don't know, spend a little too much time on TikTok or watching Amber Heard videos or Johnny Depp trial videos. I've been known to get in that.

I've been known to write some long essays on Twitter about whatever the hell it is I think that are stupid. And later I'll just be like, what the hell are you doing with your day, buddy? What the hell are you doing with your day? So you act as a performance coach, or not a performance coach, performance accelerator. I'm still learning the new lingo. And how do you feel that's different than a coach? Well, number one, the title I think I shared with you before we jumped on here was something that was given to me by past clients of mine. It's the acceleration happens because of the holistic integration into the life of the client that I work with. So coaching has become a bastardized word, just like transformation has.

It's been designed as a marketing term to enroll people into programs and other aspects of business. And unfortunately, and I'm going to be blunt here about this, is the majority of people that are in that industry are doing it for themselves first and foremost. And they're masking it under the guise of, I care more about helping others. But they are driven by their bottom line growth, scaling, etc. And the work that I do is such a holistic, integrated approach to human performance, being involved in the client's life with them, bringing my network of 40 plus specialists

across the field of human performance that work in tandem with me as life is happening. That's the nature of acceleration is things happen in real time in the moments that they're happening and we're able to truly accelerate, push, transform, and stretch these leaders beyond what they've already been able to accomplish. And if you consider my work not being a coach is because I focus and care more about my work and the leaders that I'm here to push to the top of their game.

And if they're not already there, keep them there both personally and professionally. Kingmakers don't give a shit. Excuse my French about their own notoriety. They don't care about being known. They don't care about following. And I don't either. I've always looked at it this way is that that's the piece that's missing in

the world. I've been behind the scenes on purpose for that reason. But the only reason why I'm coming out now and sticking my neck out here and having conversations with you is because I've had people in the past say, hey, you need to come out into this digital world and share with other people that don't know you exist. So we can really start to challenge other leaders in different fields to be their best as well, which is why we're having this conversation. So essentially, it's my work is such an integral part of a relationship with someone that I

don't approach them from this outside-in aspect where I'm giving them tips and tricks and strategies based on my education and my understanding of things. I actually get into their life with them. I'm in the trenches battling through every aspect that is hindering their performance and their capacity and their ability to experience that level of peace, freedom, and feeling like they're finally at a place where they are satisfied and fulfilled with what they're doing and not chasing more. You mentioned a few times that you get in the field with them,

and I think you mentioned it one time where you go to people's place of either work, I guess, or their home. Sure. That's got to be pretty intimidating. I'm not sure I want somebody in my house cause they see all my things that I use to screw. Exactly. Well,

thank you for saying that. Then I see right there. That's my mindset. Yeah. I don't, you're going to be doing what exactly? Because you are, you can hide behind the curtain and tell the world as a public figure or an

influencer, here's how great my life is. But when you pull the curtains back, your life is in chaos and you're trying to manage that fire while still trying to keep the smile on your face in the public eye and everybody's getting lost in how the superficial looks.

And what I do is get into these lives of these people and focus on them to get them to stop dealing with the fires, put those fires out. And that's why the results that they're able to achieve, despite what they've already been able to amass already, exponential that's why powerful people do come to me is because they're like i've done it all i still feel this way in my life and i'm done feeling this way and i want more

i want to get to where i can actually experience this holistic level of satisfaction with my life and who it is i'm leading what i'm doing what i'm accomplishing and not be at the professional and personal obstacles. That's pretty cool because, I mean, that's the problem with working from home is you have, especially with coronavirus lately with everybody, you have so many potential distractions. You're like, oh, well, what's over there? A bag of candy. So when you come to people's home, do you go full Glenn, Gary, Glenn, Ross,

where you yell at me when I try and get a copy? Oh, it's so, that's the thing is being a, again, Do you go full Glenn Gary Glenn Ross where you yell at me when I try and get a copy? It's so, that's the thing is being a, again, being a former soldier as well and understanding the breakers of war and what really shows up when people are in those moments. Everything that I do is customized to the individual person that I work with. So it will vary. It's not, it's not going to be a cookie cutter thing. So I don't know whether or not I'm going to push, fight,

battle you in moments or, or not, or just experience this like flow with you. But what matters is I'm in your life with you for a certain amount of time to get you to where you want to be. And then I get the hell out of your way and you go off and you live your best life. That's really what it comes down to.

So it's, I, but I will call you, I will see where, where the people of positions of power and influence are truly in fact

limiting themselves when they're hindering other people or they're hindering their own performance and we battle through that together. I'm the proverbial battle buddy

in the trenches with them and that's why I cared more being behind the scenes for a long time and not wanting to be in the public eye and most people

that are doing really powerful work are no names. They are people you don't know about that are back there really pushing these people. So to me,

it's like, that's the piece that's missing is getting into the life with someone and really uncovering what's truly actually hindering, not what they say they, or might, they might think is hindering them. If I went to people's houses and consulting, I'd be like the Alan Baldwin,

Glenn Gary gave you good leads. You sit, you do the lead. It's, yeah, I travel, I travel, live, move, shift. Everything becomes the client's life. That's it. It's fully integrated. So there's no- You can find all the ways they cut corners and-

Absolutely. And in real time, the challenges happen. And that's why the results are happening 24, 48 hours every single time. They're constantly transforming and shifting things. I use a shot caller so I can just zap them when they do bad stuff like a dog. That's good. That's good. I have my own techniques.

I have my own techniques, and health is a big one too. Yeah, I'll smack a donut out of their mouth if it needs to be, but no. It's all about that full, true, holistic integration and seeing it from the inside out. And most coaches, consultants, big guru names, they're not either built to do it. Maybe they don't want to do it, and that's okay. You're like the Amber Herd of smacking people out of their mouth.

I was trying to find a joke there. I get it. Sometimes we have to stretch those jokes out. I was going to do the joke. I I get it. Sometimes we have to stretch those jokes out. I was going to do the joke. I had two choices on that comedy. Go ahead. I had one was the Amber Heard thing because that's kind of prevalent right now. The other one was I usually smack my clients in the mouth, but then I go, oh, crap, I thought there was a donut in your mouth.

Maybe that was it. Oh, is that right? Proverbial smacks. Proverbial smacks. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you just got to smack some sense into people. I don't know. Well, that's the thing.

And I said it earlier. You only truly know someone when you fight them. That's when you actually can judge their real character. Everybody likes to hide who they really are. And I've seen it time and time again. I saw it in the military. Being a young soldier, coming up, getting promoted, becoming an NCO, is just how much people will bullshit each other themselves and then go out in the world and then act as if they've got it all figured out.

And we have leaders, industry titans, et cetera, that are doing the very thing. Politicians right now, why are we not demanding these people to be at the highest level of greatness possible? Why do we allow them to get away with things? It's because people don't like being pushed outside of their comfort zone despite how much they say it's all about being outside your comfort zone. Maybe we should, before we have to vote for them, maybe when

they're running for office, we should take a turn fighting them, see if they're worthy. You know, it reminds me of Fight Club. That's what that reminds me of. I was going to say. Yeah, it reminds me of Fight Club. You know, you never find out who someone is until you fight them. I think it would make you, when it comes to the podcast, fight me before the podcast. Is that a little?

It'll make for a better podcast, maybe. Yeah, you know, shake people up. I mean, there's, I think, Paul Elkman. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's a famous, the show, The Lie to Me was about him with Tim Roth, it was all about micro expressions and what he would do in the show is he would literally push people beyond the brink of their emotional capabilities to really get the truth out of them. He would say that some of the

most outrageous things to them in front of their face their child just got kidnapped and he would say things as if they did it and they would you would see the real them come out and they'd be okay you're good and he'd walk away there. Why'd you do it? He goes I needed to see if he was a killer or not and it's like that is the thing that's missing in the coaching world. And it comes to high performances. These people are not doing that. They like the, having the millions

of followers and like the coaching programs, because it creates some level of barrier to them. And if you want their attention, you got to spend exorbitant amount of money. And then, and then the people I've worked with have worked and spent millions of dollars on working with these high level people have come to me and say, I still feel like I got nothing out of that. I need more. I need something else. So that's the piece that's missing. Yeah.

You talk a lot about blind spots. I'm looking over your website. Let's talk about those as ketomas, I guess. The blind spots. Another label. But it's, again, people have life experiences that are not favorable, that they sweep under the rug. Therapy, some coaching creates awareness of those issues. It stretches them beyond being too uncomfortable or too close to them, but it doesn't fully resolve

them, not to the core. So those blind spots, if you will, those unresolved stresses is what I like to talk about. And I talked about it on my website and I had a little video about the difference between acute and chronic stress is understanding that these life experiences that you have overlooked, you've overridden, swept under the rug. Men were, we're very good at that.

We're taught to suck it up and deal with it. Those things fester and they don't go anywhere. Despite how much you might think that you've gotten it all figured out because you did some therapy for 20 years or you didn't, you know, see coaching that talked about it. But if you look at your life and you don't feel satisfied and you don't have what you really want, you're not performing every single day, clearly focused like an

unstoppable force. You have these unresolved stresses that you've got to address. And the only way you get them actually up and out to erupt is by being challenged in real time as things are happening, which is why it's important to understand these blind spots will inevitably affect your overall performance, your ability to produce what you know you're capable of until you do something about it. It's the same thing when you go to war. It's like you have to be able to handle and battle through these limitations and blind spots you carry to be an elite operator. Navy SEALs do that through BUDS. We have Army Ranger School is the stuff that we go through in the Army.

All of these little elements are designed to truly see, truly see where your weaknesses are, where your blind spots are, so we can do something about them and make you this flawless elite performer. That sounds awesome. That sounds awesome. So what are the best ways for people to reach out to you and get to know you better? So wileymcgraw.com is my philosophies and some blogs. I had some interviews with different publications that we put on there so people can really start to read other things that can challenge their thinking, their focus, etc.

I'm on linkedin.com as well, forward slash wileymcgraw. And I think we're getting ready to build out a Twitter page as well. And I've got some media outlets that are looking to do some interviews soon, so they can go jump on there if they want to connect, have conversations, et cetera. And again, this is, you know, my work is not for everyone. It's only for a certain type of leader. It's very exclusive and intense, but I'm out here to do this for those that really want it. That sounds awesome. Well, wonderful insight. We certainly appreciate you coming on the show, Wiley. Yeah, Chris, thanks for having me, brother. I appreciate it.

There you go. Give me your dot coms one last time, if you would, please, as we go on. Sure. WileyMcGraw.com. That's W-Y-L-I-E, McGraw.com, M-C-G-R-A-W, and then LinkedIn.com forward slash Wiley McGraw. And Twitter's already set up, I think. It's at Wiley McGraw as well.

It's pretty simple and straightforward. There you go. So thanks, Manas, for tuning well. It's pretty simple and straightforward. There you go. So thanks, Amonis, for tuning in. Go to YouTube.com, 4chesschrisfoss. Hit the bell notification button. Go to Goodreads.com, 4chesschrisfoss. See all the amazing authors and reviews we've done over there. Also go to all of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram as well.

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