The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Your Core-4: The ultimate framework for unleashing business success through vision, values, mission and promise by Mrs. Nili Goldberg

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Your Core-4: The ultimate framework for unleashing business success through vision, values, mission and promise by Mrs. Nili Goldberg Amazon.com A mind shifting framework for founders & leaders experiencing anxiety, feeling stuck, or overwhelmed by not knowing which decision to make and what step to take. Nili Goldberg is a multidisciplinary entrepreneur, marketer, and educator who launched her first startup to empower influencer marketing in 2009 immerses her readers in stories of known brands like Netflix & Airbnb to show how their vision and values lead them throughout their journey and even decision making processes. The author zooms in on founders who paved their business to Unicorn status, like Amazon, Wix, Datorama, and SimilarWeb. Being a strong believer in "practice what you preach" Nili shares her authentic analysis of her faux pas while pioneering the concept of social media influencer marketing and its enabling technology. How does your Core-4 reflect on your business? An experiential guide for founders & leaders experiencing anxiety, feeling stuck, or overwhelmed by not knowing which decision to make and what step to take. Identify your unique entrepreneurial and business DNA by exploring how these crucial elements blend into the mindset of leading entrepreneurs and business leaders and then contemplating your own: vision, your unique set of values your mission and the promise you make to your audience, your team and your business partners. About the author Nili Goldberg is a passionate entrepreneur, marketer, and university professor. After working as a strategic marketer and leading product launches in both the corporate world and startups, Nili launched her first startup in 2009 with the vision to disrupt word-of-mouth marketing by recruiting and mobilizing authentic social media creators and influencers into brand ambassadors. The startup was one of the first to manage influencer campaigns for Governmental purposes, and global brands worldwide like GSK, Clinique, and P&G. She researched of the FAASTR alignment strategies first hand for over fifteen years since 2008. Both by aligning fast-moving startup teams to their vision, mission, values & promise or by providing fractional Chief Marketing services to versataile businesses vectors. Her passion for teaching through experiences has been part of her professional life since 2007. She’s taught entrepreneurship and marketing at Reichman University, Yeshiva University, Shenkar design schools' entrepreneurial programs to name a few. . Nili holds a master’s degree in International Relations, is a guest speaker at international business schools, and mentors in leading entrepreneurial programs like Techstars, Springbourd, and marketing driven communities. She lives with her partner Jonathan, is the mother of Michal and Amalia, a stepmom to Shai and Lee, and prefers to spend time in in nature's embrace, prioritizing outdoor adventures on snowy mountains, beach breaks and desert sunsets with Jonathan and their four girls.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times, because you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, this is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Well, he's young and there, and he sings the mix of Lady. Welcome to 16 Years of the Chris Bosh.

We're going on 17 and, what is it, 18 years on a YouTube account. And over 2,200 episodes, we bring you the CEOs, the billionaires, the White House presidential advisors, the Pulitzer Prize winners, all the smartest people in all the land and all the world. All the planets, damn it. We bring you the smartest people on all the planets that are out there, at least the ones we know of. She's the author of the latest book

that came out August 5th, 2024. We're going to be talking about her insights and how her insights can help you as a listener out there at the Chris Foss Show. The book is entitled Your Core 4, The Ultimate Framework for Unleashing Business Success Through Vision, Values, Mission, and Promise. is entitled your core for the ultimate framework for unleashing business

success through vision values mission and promise mrs. Nilly Goldberg joins us in the show we're gonna be talking to her about her insights and how you can make your business better and all that good stuff welcome the show how are you Nilly hi Chris thanks for having me I'm so excited. Thanks for coming. We're excited to have you as well. And give us your.coms,.ais. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? I love connecting on LinkedIn, actually. So just find me on Neely Goldberg, Spells, as it sounds, N-I-L-I. I also have two other websites, Faster as in Fast Alignment Strategies, F-A-A-S-T-R dot A-I, and Growthonomics dot com.

But if you want the direct connection, then I handle my own account on LinkedIn, and I love talking to entrepreneurs and business leaders and helping them out. All right. So give us a 30,000 overview. What's in your new book? Oh, my new book. So your core four is actually kind of a reflection of the past 12 to 15 years of me being an entrepreneur when I first trailblazed the social media influencer sphere, you know, walking on Madison Avenue, trying to convince advertising agencies that micro influencers are the thing while, you know, Kutcher was on Twitter and Hush and Kutcher

was on Twitter and really, you know, the million followers and, and suddenly trying to convince people that anyone is an influencer and anyone who loves a brand is willing to engage and connect with it is the next best thing to slice bread. But it took a while. So that started in those days. Instagram didn't exist then, you know, it was like influencers. And after that, so for the past, I guess, thread that leads to success, if we put aside words like business plan and marketing plan and things that make people want to barf a little in the mouth every now and then, the things that really make them going, keep them going,

are a clear crystallized vision, which was surprising to see how it's lack is still in the business world. It's more difficult to convince people about the necessities of vision, even though there's stats to show and the B2C world talks about manifestation and vision and as clear as you get,

that's how you'll reach your goals so that was one thing the other are core values and core values not just uh family or um good vibes or uh uh collaboration and teamwork but rather the core values, those, uh, elementary, you know, the, the, the four to six words, phrases, means that actually reflect an organization's operation mode and its belief system. Um, and then the mission, but it's that one thing, the mission is the, what is it that we do day in day out in order to overcome all the obstacles and end up living our vision? And then it's the promise. What promise can I make if you then I that would really engage the right audience, what's called in the startup world or the tech world, the product market fit. So that kind of that, that mixture of those core four elements turned into that compass, into that, um,

one liner that leads to the, to the North star of every venture and leads to its success. Well, the four core values, vision values, or I'm sorry, the core four vision values, mission and purpose, how you can make your business better doing that. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself. Uh, are you talking the book about your, some of your journey and your business success? Tell us a little bit yourself. How did you get the entrepreneur bug? How did you grow up? Uh, what were maybe some influences that got you to be an entrepreneur i think that before being an entrepreneur i i solely believe that my dna just like ballerinas have theirs was uh being a marketer uh one who can really get into other people's skin and understand what makes them tick, if you will.

And that was always one of my, I guess, my genius zone, which got me very passionate about marketing. Because I moved around quite a lot. I was born in Israel to immigrant parents from this ex now ex former Soviet Union. Then they came from communism landed in the land of milk and honey, but we didn't even have a phone in the house in the early eighties. And then we moved to Silicon Valley. So yeah. Yeah. So it's Russian immigrants and not in the global world like today that, you know,

you know where you're going and what are the vibes and what McDonald's is. We did know what Coca-Cola was, but you know, Levi's and, and all stars were, I was one of the first to have them so right into the deep tech scene my mom worked in San Francisco and her friends were of all diverse backgrounds and and passions and my dad worked in Santa

Clara so and I went to a Jewish private school and tried. So all these combos always got me to, you know, I had to land and hit the ground running wherever we moved. And that back and forth kind of got me to really, I guess, get my senses very, very focused on what makes people tick and how can I integrate. And as a marketer, that was great. But coming from Silicon Valley in the 80s, I guess that that was when the entrepreneurial bug was first there and working in the corporate world and trying to calculate how much is a meeting worth when they're like 12, 15 people around the table and they're like, let's talk about what we're going to have for lunch.

As an entrepreneur and a business owner, then I wasn't yet. That made me itch until I got the real bug when I was a VP product of a company in 2007 that was like a mixture of Hulu and Netflix. 2007, that's when the streaming just came into Netflix. And we built this whole ecosystem in Southern and Latin America. So suddenly with all this tech and all this marketing and all that, you know,

the mixture of a gazillion blends in my master's in international relations, I suddenly understood that the whole world could be an advocate and we can all be ambassadors. And that's how Brandsports was pretty much born, my first startup. Oh, wow. Brandsports, what did they do? Brandsports was the second or or third depends how you count influencer marketing management platform oh wow and that was when i paged uh my way trying to convince people that they might as well engage with their fans on social media rather than just get another spot on local radio yeah look for cable or whatever you know i remember i remember running ads on local

radio yeah for our work well tony robbins began and uh what was like a a shopping channel right so whatever works yeah oh that's right yeah he was selling the he's on the cds and i think you get tapes too i think you can get an A-track if you wanted one. I don't know. I don't remember. Right now, the kids, they're going. Well, we should stop because that will show exactly how much we have seen the world change. But we're still vibrant, and I think there's a lot still to do, learn, and accomplish.

And then you got into social media. Twitter was the thing and did all that. You dealt with some micro-influencers, I think, that you were pitching and selling, right? Yeah. I launched a startup. I bootstrapped it first with my day job as a VP product in Novibox that Netflix meets Hulu in Latin America. And I literally, you know, I did what every entrepreneur that just has that itch does. I had my day job and then at night after putting my girl to bed and, you know, making

dinner and being nice, I turned and I had two laptops, one for my day job. And the other one was writing the product requirements, which then I remember taking and giving them to a developer alongside an envelope with enough money to make one of the first influencer management platforms and then bootstrap my way until I raised a substantial amount of funding from American investors that were connected to the marketing field and believed in the power of micro-influencers. So that was a very, very interesting ride. I served brands like Estee Lauder, GSK, Clinique, Time Out Magazine. I worked with governments.

It was really, really interesting. It was amazing. And what do you do now? You've got your book launched, of course. What else do you do now? You've got your book launched, of course. What else do you do? So for the past couple of years, I had a CMO as a service platform. So with many, many startups understanding the product world, but needing a CMO without having a full- time CMO, I found that I could really help companies grow and really help them, you know, hit the ground running and then and then grow until they can really build their own marketing team. So it was like Fiverr, but for CMOs. And I helped quite a few companies that

are now IPO on NASDAQQ and some have exited, acquired like Datorama that was acquired by Salesforce, Kaltura that IPO'd, a video engagement platform, and quite a few others. And then I took a break, my first break ever, and that was writing a book. But you know that's not a break. That's a breakdown. That's a breakdown yeah um and yeah and ever since uh the book has pre-launched and it's gotten me very very

busy as you know entrepreneurs are in love with their product so i was in love with my baby book but now uh i forgot that you know in order to launch a business around the core four which is very important for me that every entrepreneur or wannabe entrepreneur, solopreneur, anyone with a side hustle would really understand what Simon Sinek calls the why, and others have other attributes to it. But those elements for every business, for every entrepreneur to find their personal North Star and the metrics that would lead them to success and remove all the friction and anxiety that you have when you don't know where you're going right yeah totally uh and the vision values mission and promise you know a lot of people don't think about

these things when they started they might do a mission statement or whatever it is using the mission statement some sort of blue sky pie in the sky we going to save the world or something. Yeah, exactly. We're going to save the world by blah, blah, blah. But a true vision is one that really breaks down the essence of what will the company look like in 18 months' time to the degree of how many people are there? By the way, what kind of vibes are there at the office? Who are the distribution partners? What does it all look like? How does the machine look when it's operating? Who are our favorite customers?

What do they say about us? Who are our investors or not? Are we bootstrapping? Maybe we're launching a store on Shopify. That could be a heck of a business, as we all know know with e-commerce booming and only just begun so when you have that clear crystal vision of literally what it looks like at the office what does a day look like what are the kind of people that work there who are customers how do we serve them then when we have that we can actually reverse engineer every one of those pieces of maybe qualitative elements into the quantitative elements of them. Because if we have 50 people, 50 employees, or 30 people on our payroll and

10 freelancers, and we have the next amount of customers, that can all end up as the best business model and business plan that we can really follow through versus an Excel sheet that many people just say, oh, I need to get back to that. But you should, as a business owner, you should know that by heart. One thing you talk about is tackling friction and anxiety in your book. Many entrepreneurs experience high stress, burnout. I'm burnout right now.

I'm always in a state of burnout, actually. I've been running companies since 18, so I've been burnout for a while. How does your book address some of the hurdles that us entrepreneurs have in that field? Well, as we all know, the burnout and anxiety are usually feelings that arise when there is a lack of clarity and there's a lot of overwhelmed um maybe vibes and feelings because what are we supposed to like we wake up in the morning what are we going to do now and it doesn't matter if we just uh launched a you know or bootstrapping a business or we just raised $50 million. That question of what's next, what do we do now?

Should we, I hate the word, but pivot? Pivot is a little bit of a, you know, it's kind of a, okay, we fucked up. What do we do now? That is the right. We should use that as Silicon Valley. You fucked up, what do we do now? But I think that with that kind of clarity and a very, very clear North Star metric, just like, by the way, Airbnb have theirs and LinkedIn have theirs. And every company that you can think of and read about in the book, they all have a specific metric that guides them through it. And that is how they start every meeting with understanding that metric and if a task a mission or a project does not serve

that North Star usually you can put it in the nice-to-have compartment and that already removes a lot of friction resources that you could put back onto the right track same goes for vision because a lot of the fatigue for like i've been doing this for 16 years just as you keep you know you share that and that is um i guess you need a very strong why to keep going given the great the great value that you've already given and the audience you already have so you have once you have that vision of in 18 months time what does the Chris Voss show look like where does it expand to or does it not maybe you know but but when you have that then it removes a lot of the anxiety. It creates some kind of inner patience that I can see with that, that the great entrepreneurs, those that really created huge businesses like Netflix, Airbnb, Datarama, Wix for website building and today everything that an entrepreneur needs in the digital world

those kind of uh those ceos they know like they have the clear vision the one that you know if you look straight ahead you can see that not when you're here with your mobile that's true that's true vision vision is really important in leaders in being able to see where the future is going, chart a path. You know, I always liken it to a ship sea captain, you know. No one can see the port. No one knows kind of other than, you know, using instruments for direction and maybe the North Star. You know, you have to have that vision to go. It's out there, you know. If we just move that mountain,'re gonna we're gonna find it

and sometimes you're betting on just you're just betting on maybe your instinct or maybe your your your knowledge base and your instinct a little bit or what you last heard in a podcast or what someone said but if someone said it's like you know and then it's those i i started by the way i got into the vision when i first um i remember you know the there's uh the cartoon the alice in wonderland when she walks in the woods and she and the cat's waiting the cat the westchester cat and she's like would you tell me which and she reaches a fork and she asks for directions she asks can you tell me which way to go and he said well that depends where you want to go and she says well i don't know so he says any road will get you there

right so so when you see uh entrepreneurs as much as they have some kind of vision it's not as you said far and wide enough for them to really understand which road to take and what decision to make. And when you add the core values to that, which are your core beliefs, what you truly believe in and how you operate, then you can also know that if you're not the kind of person that will go to big distribution channels, but rather want to touch and go with specific platforms versus like a big Siemens or whatever, then you know, that's not your, that's not the way you operate. So it won't work. And that if that's, and then, you know, you're barking on the wrong tree.

So those are the things that help clean out a lot of ideas and thoughts and trends that may not necessarily be the ones that are right for your venture. You talk about in the book, too, about influencer culture. What does the landscape look like right now? It's kind of weird where I think in the 19th we might not have TikTok. There's a lot of influencers that are on TikTok making serious money. Kind of maybe some opportunity there for different i don't know platforms and what do you think about it what would influence your culture and and influencers

are doing these days is is there any new changes coming out in 2025 maybe oh there are some drastic changes and trends that are happening as we speak and that was one that's even a venture that, you know, wondering too many kind of ventures that I launched during Christmas. But the influencer trend today is extremely tricky, because the the influencers that tap onto affiliate platforms and then suddenly, you know, they talk about hand cream or some kind of facial, whatever the rocks that they use or going on voyages and logging for tourism. Those are now, they appear to Gen Z and the alphas as campaigns, as marketing and promotional campaigns,

which means that they go nearly unnoticed. So when you choose an influencer today, the fact that you'll choose one with 100,000 followers or a million and a half followers, that does not mean that you're actually engaging with the right influencer for your brand. And that doesn't matter if you're a Clinique, a P&G, or Neely and Chris Voss, right? It doesn't matter because the authenticity of the micro-influencers is challenged. And today, we can use technology to really identify which of the influencers are the ones that are doing the best job for a specific niche.

So that's one thing. Another thing is that leads us again to the micro influencers, those of the 10 to 50 K followers that have higher engagement rates. And they're very picky about the brands that they do choose to promote and choose to engage with. So in a way, like everything, there was a flood, But those who remain are and the ones that are, I guess, the influencers that are more connected to their personal brand and their core values and their vision are the ones that are probably going to be serving best. On the other

hand, there's a lot of stuff that we can enjoy today, which is in addition to influencers, content and content assets, digital assets. So as a brand, what we want to do is connect influencers with unique digital assets that we create as a brand, just like you have your asset, which is the show. But there are about you know that there are 12 types of different podcasts. Not all podcasts are the kind that we're having right now. Yeah. You can have an unscripted reality show that is already in the podcast format.

And it would serve you tremendously as a brand. So as a brand for 2025, I would focus on creating unique digital assets that align with my vision, my core values, and the core values that connect me to my audience. And also move...

Well, TikTok is a bit tricky these days, especially in the following two weeks. It's going to be extremely interesting, maybe three months, but we all know where it's going, right? In the Western world, at least. But there are a lot of platforms like Subtract, like Patreon. We know OnlyFans for a specific reason, but OnlyFans type kind of platforms are growing for various niches. So that's going to be very interesting to follow. assets that will serve me, just like your show serves people that land on your amazing brand and start going backwards. We can go 16 years back and enjoy the assets that you created.

So that kind of longevity is the new trend alongside micro-influencers that we can measure with technology, their effect and ripple effect on our breath yeah it's well I feel good now because you know we've got longevity we just say 18 years on the YouTube channel and though YouTube isn't a favorite of of our audience or I think we're a little too highbrow we just highbrow right past the YouTube audience. Well, there's one more trend that you might be very happy to hear about, and that is that the longer videos are gaining more and more attention. So all those shorts of a blast of an influencer,

hey, guys, you listen to this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, it's not going to fade away, but the attention span is changing. You can see that, by the way, with TikTok, they allow videos of up to 10 minute long videos to be uploaded to their platform. Just imagine what kind of ROI they need in order to enable that kind of data on their platform. But that also means that the attention span of Gen Z's, alphas, and of course, millennials and up, is now more focused on something that interests them and they would like to go and dive deeper. By the way, just like chat enables you,

chat GPT and other AI platforms enable you to dive deeper and spend a little bit more time on the things that matter to you most. So I think that you might be surprised with what can happen with Chris bosses show on YouTube nice that'll be great they've got the podcast over there now to the same trying to be like iTunes so they sucked in the podcast but oh it's working but I have noticed that people like long playing videos like they like podcasts now that last like two or three hours. Oh, especially the ones about longevity and health and wellness, yes.

By the way, there are meditations on YouTube that last the whole night long, right? So you have eight-hour, six-hour videos. Well, they're not videos, but they are, it's data and content that is uploaded and serves a great audience, by the way. They have millions and tens of millions of views.

So it's really interesting to see that as well. Yeah, it's really interesting. Well, that's good. I mean, we had somebody, our YouTube channel has a lot of product reviews from back in the day. We did a lot of product reviews up until about COVID, and supply chain killed all that. And so somebody remarked on a video.

I think it was from 2015 or something. They're like, hey, if you still have this, I'll buy it off you. It's funny. They'll still comment on, like, 3 videos and iphone 5 videos and you're like i had someone stop me in one of the accelerators the other day i i since i work with startups and now i'm moving the startup uh formats the framework just like the 4-4 into the b2c world i think everyone deserved that but someone came up to me and talked to me about a video that was promoted i guess six years ago about how to clarify your message and how to how

to engage with your brand and how to build a website without paying tens of thousands of dollars to agencies because what they need is the right copy and the right message and i also walk them through that so so it's like i it was i think it was at tech stars here but it was so funny because i i forgot that that video even exists talk about like i mean and that he even recognized me because i do look a bit different but uh so that's a good thing it means means that if your content is good and you do provide value and we always go back to that. But if it's purposeful, if it's value driven, if you really care about what you talk about and the content that you promote versus just five steps off of me and come into my funnel, then we're here to last. So, Nili, as we go out, any services and stuff you want to offer? I don't know if you do any consulting or you do any fractional CO stuff or any,

I don't know what you're up to there. Tell us what you're up to and what people can check out. So, 2025, I spent a little time polishing up my vision. And I am really focused on sharing the core four with as many entrepreneurs and startups as possible. And that is why I wrote the book. my consultancies so that I run extremely short sprints and, uh, and, um, and bootcamps that are between half a day to a day and a half long and, um, the three week messaging sprints. Um, and I don't do many of those, but I am now, uh, creating a waiting list in that. And again, LinkedIn is the best way for it to find me there for the B2C to create an accelerator program, which will be launched in March for any entrepreneur who wants to hit the ground running.

And within 13 weeks to really launch and present their business to the world. So I took all of the experience and know-how from the tech world and the startup scene of how to launch a business and with the book and the core four, condensed it into a framework and a mindset that can really help any entrepreneur. So that is my focus for 2025. And as I said before, that one dream too many startup, which I've signed the agreement today, the term sheet with my partner. So I'm kind of, you know, I'm obliged and I'm very passionate about that. And that is to create longevity and digital assets that will enable brands to ditch the

periodical campaigns that create those hurricanes, that create that anxiety and a lot of friction, because we have to launch the campaign, versus enabling and building digital assets that will really maintain every brand in the top of mind of their audience. So when it's time to hit the click button and purchase, they won't really need to decide between or choose between a variety of brands, but rather they'll have their favorite brand on top of mine thanks

to the digital assets. And that company's name is Noise, of course, to rise above the noise. To rise above the noise. That's definitely important, especially if you want influence because there's a lot of noise out there. Everyone's yelling and screaming, trying to get attention. Let's make some noise, and then we have to rise above it, right? So that's part of what marketing and retail is all about.

Making the noise. That's what we should have called the podcast, the Making Noise Podcast. I think we can go offline, and I told you, I made a few promises before we went on air about this. And, again, the long content and the repurposing of content has so much value in it. And by the way, there's tons of revenue streams to explore today, not just on the platforms, but rather, and not just providing another course and another e-book, but rather there are gazillions of products and many people that are the workforce is changing so many people are becoming entrepreneurs and digital nomads so there's so much content and so much support that they need that i guess that people who have been

around can really repurpose everything they've done to new niches. Just like I'm moving from the B2B world to the B2C world or the solopreneurs and the side hassles. So give us your final dot coms and pitch out as we go out so people can find out more about you and reach out and utilize some of your services too. So again, first of all, you're all welcome to reach out through social media, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn is my favorite. That is where no assistant of mine goes to that. That is mine.

So and everyone's welcome there. I also attend my email about twice to three times a day given my ADHD. I really try not to go there too often because that usually ends up with me finding some kind of course I really want to attend. So, but you're more than welcome to reach out at neely, N-I-L-I at faster.ai, F-A-A-S-T-R.ai. But again, I'd love to see you on LinkedIn

because then I can click and see your profile, really understand what you're about, who you are, what are your core values that we bring to the table, our beliefs and our operating system, so that when we find the perfect partners and audience, we'll see that they have pretty much the same core values and that will enable us to engage with the right audience, especially for those who provide services or just launching the business and need their initial customer base. That kind of engagement is what I hope to enhance in the world. Well, Nellie, we certainly appreciate it. Thank you for your insights and advice on how to be successful in entrepreneurism as an influencer, et cetera, et cetera.

Thank you for coming on the show. Chris, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. And thank you for your patience and really easing this process through. Because as you know, being the entrepreneur with a new product and a baby book to share with the world, it's pretty exciting and overwhelming. Well, congratulations. Most people don't pull it off. A lot of people try to do a book and they don't. So congratulations. You got your first one under your a book and they don't. So congratulations.

You got your first one under your belt. Now we need two or three more. I've already begun the next one. But as you know, there is a book and now it deserves my attention just like every newborn. Your Core Four, the ultimate framework for unleashing business success through vision, values, mission, and promise out August 5th, 2024. Order up wherever fine books are sold. Thanks, Arnaz, for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, 4Chance, Chris Voss, LinkedIn.com, 4Chance, Chris Voss, Chris Voss1, on the TikTok, and Chris VossFacebook.com.

See all the Chris Voss show stuff over there on the face of black, as it were. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you next time. And that should have us out.