The Church of What's Happening Now: The New Testament - #364 - Big John McCarthy

Episode Date: March 21, 2016

Big John McCarthy, MMA Referee and veteran LAPD Officer Joey Diaz and Lee Syatt live in studio. This podcast is brought to you by: Onnit.com. Use Promo code CHURCH for a discount at checkout Club W. Go to www.clubw.com/joey to get 50% off of your first order of wine curated just for you 
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Recorded live on 03/20/2016.


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Lee Syatt, Big John McCarty, just a little thing on a Sunday. A little get-together, a little chit-chat to get your Monday morning drive on fire. Great album, the car's first album. Bring back a lot of memories. Who gives a fuck about memories? What I'm saying? It's 2016, bitches. What's happening, gentlemen?

What is up? What's going on? Post St. Patty's Day, we got Big John. You know what I'm saying? Not that he's selling it. I didn't celebrate St. I don't get a fuck. I'm too old for that.

I never once did in Boston. I'm not a big drinker. I never once. They're open at like 10 a.m. 6 a.m. Did you ever even go to a bar? just to see the, it's like going to the zoo. No, I'm so much, I'm that big of a nerd.

I never went. Now I wish I had gone to a parade or something. I just never, to me, the thought of waking up at like 6 a.m. And going and drinking a beer just is the last thing I ever wanted. Like, I wish I could do that. Like, there are people doing whiskey 6 a.m. You wish you could do that. I wish I was that much of a man.

I wish I could destroy myself that last. I wish I could get up in the morning and have a whiskey and stuff, for breakfast or something. I could never even think of doing something like that. The craziest thing I did was one year, my buddies got together, they had a bar called Gregory's Seven Day weekend, they went to the bus,

and they all got on the bus, and it was the craziest thing ever saw in my life. And after the third bus stop, I said, that's it. I just left them there. You tapped. You just quit on me. It wasn't even about the alcoholism or nothing.

It was just about, it wasn't me. It was just too many people, too many guys dressed in green, And I'm like, it's 10 in the morning, and people are drinking already. You know, one beer with your steak is good for lunch. Everything after that, I don't know how people survive it. It was funny as hell. I saw it.

I went to lunch with my wife, St. Patty's Day. We just went to a lunch, and we walked past an Irish bar. And it was, you know, studio city. And it was packed. Black people, white people. They don't care. Oh, no. You're all I hate.

Listen, man, it's just an excuse to drink. That's it. That's all it is. Like, there's people who can't wait for St. Patty's Day. That's it. Dude, we were going to. a breakfast. There's this great breakfast place

out where we live. It's called Mrs. Olsons, man. It's a classic. It's on Zaggots and stuff. It's got great food. And they're they just moved to a new location and it's right by this bar and when we're going there it's, you know, 9.30 in the morning, whatever. And there's all these people who I said, God damn, Miss Olson is fucking going crazy today. No,

they're all going into the lookout bar. It's St. Patty's Day. They're drinking already. I go, man, they're a lot better person than me. I'm too old for that shit. I can't do it. No. I never really did it. I got I got it. I understood. You know, it's just a good day to get hammered, but I can't sit in a bar.

Never was a bar guy, do you know that? I mean, for about an eight-month period, I was forced to it in a way, but I grew up on a bar. My mom had a bar growing up, so once I saw that click in the daytime, I used to go, how do people do this, drink in the dark?

The sunlight is out. You know, I can see getting out of having it at night. That's fine. But in the daytime, the sun's out. You're in a dark bar, smoking cigarettes and stuff. What do you think, Lee? I think if I started at 6 a.m.

I'd probably be, like, 11 a.m. I'd be done. I don't even think I'd make it to 11 a. You don't think so? I'll limit. I have a beer on the southwest when I pass out on the flight. I have a, you know, they give you those little business select coupons. And I'm like, why do I? What's wrong with me?

I'm going to Vegas. Let me loosen up. So for a year, I would only drink an Irish cream, like Bailey's Irish cream on ice. Why would you do that? That's just a waste of time. So finally, I was looking at the menu, and I saw doers and ginger ale. And I go, you know what? Now that's not bad.

What a guy like me drinks is good for your circulation. Do a couple acupuncture needles after that. You're brand new. And I do that now. Every flight I'll do with doers and ginger ale and pass out for the rest of the flight and wake up a little fucked up. I know both of you guys spend a lot of time in Vegas. Have you ever done one of the big cups that you have to like wear,

like the 30, 60 ounce slushy, alcoholic slushies? No. No. And when you see those people in Vegas, you're actually thinking for a minute, I really feel bad for a minute. You're going to feel like shit in two hours. With all that sugar and all that booze, you're going to feel like shit. Listen, if you talk to old boozes, they'll tell you what, like the, who was telling us that he went somewhere and that they drank coconut water now with vodka? It's no hangover recipe.

They drink no coconut water with vodka, no hangover or something. What's the biggest of the hangout, man? You dehydrate, man. You dehydrate. Those sweet drinks, when I go to Vegas and I see those girls, those sweet drinks early on, I look at them and go, well, they might as well have a Cosby cocktail because they'll be done in three hours. Those drinks will kill you.

That sugar kills you. I wasn't cool enough for these either, but when I was growing up, the cool thing with Scorpion Bulls at Chinese places. Oh, that's tremendous. I never had my... At the Aku-A-Qu-A-Ku and Worcester, people would drink those things while you were on stage. In every show, you had to walk over a puddle of vomit at some part of it.

It's like a little swimming pool. Oh, my God. You ever see those? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I grew up at a place to Mikeye, and every Saturday we'd go up there, and four of us would get the zombies on fire, and you put the straws in it, and you don't drink out of it.

They're great going down, too. Until like two hours lived. They're good coming up, too. Big John, what's the story, brother? Dude, I'm just having the time of my life, man. I'm just enjoying life. You look good? I'm doing good.

working a lot? I work too much. Yeah, just about every week. This is your first weekend off in a while. Yeah, I had to take this one off. This is my dad's wife, my stepmother's. It was her 78th birthday. And so I had promised long ago that I would take this date off because he was having her family come out and our family. And so it was important to them that they had the whole family there for the most part. The only person that wasn't there was like this, my daughter is in the military. She's in Alabama, so she couldn't be there. But just about, not everyone else was, so that made it a... It was nice. Nice for them.

It was a nice day to see everyone. It's nice sometimes. Just sit around with family. And sometimes on the way that you're like, well, I got to do this shit. As you're driving on the freeway, yeah.

I got to deal with that fuck. He stalls me 600 from three years ago. But then you get there and it's family. And that's when you realize what family is. You just, everything goes away. You know, if it's...

You sit, you loosen up. You start playing with your nephew or something. That's it. And all of a sudden you have your... myself a great afternoon. Before this started, man, we were rocking and rolling in here about the point system. The first thing we were talking about was last night with Hector Lombard and Neil Magny, which, you know, when would you had called that fight? I would have called it in the second round. Oh, the second round. Absolutely. Yeah. The real thing is what people are looking at, you know,

a lot of people are going to sit there. But well, why would you stop in the first round? Because Magny was really hurt. He was. He was hurt. And this is, you know, our job is to try to let those people get through when there are hurt, but they are still actively trying to compete. When we talk about long ago, UFC 3, I came up with, look, I'm going to stop the fight if the fighter cannot intelligently defend themselves. And you look at what happened in the first round with Neil Magny and Lombard. Neil was hurt, but he was actively trying to protect himself. He was doing the right things.

He's moving, and that's what we're asking of him. In the back, when we talk about you, you hear us in like when we're going to talk between two fighters, Before our main event, we say, hey, protect yourself at all times. We've gone over the rules, protect yourself at all times, all that stuff. When we say we've gone over the rules, what we've gone over is about conduct and what we're looking for. And what I'll tell the fighter in the back is, look, if you get hit with a shot and it hurts you, similar to what, you know, Hector Lombard hit Neil with a shot, it hurt him. You could see it. And you get into a position where this person is coming down and they're attacking you.

And if I don't think you're defending yourself in an intelligent fashion, if you are still able to consciously hear me, I'm going to be telling you and I would tell Neil, Neil, move, get out. If you hear those words, move, get out. It's telling you, Neil, if you stay with what you're doing, I'm going to stop your fight. So what I expect of you is you hear those words, I want you to try to move the position, try to take away what he's attacking you with, show me that you want to be part of the fight. As long as you're trying, I don't care if you're successful. I care that you're trying.

As long as you're trying, I'm going to let the fight go. It's when you don't try or you can't. you're stuck in a position that you can't get yourself out of and you're accepting damage, the fight's going to come to an end. Well, what do you mean by defending intelligently? Because there's times where they'll still be putting their hands up or something. So what is the intelligently or where does the line come in? When you talk about intelligent defense, you're talking about if a guy is coming with heavy blows

and you're putting your hand up to the side of your face, we'll say, and he's sitting there with a heavy blow coming down on it, it doesn't matter that his hand is hitting your hand because your hand is attached to your head, and what it's doing is it's scrambling your brains. That's what we can't have. But if you're doing things as far as taking my hand and putting it up and trying to move myself and just move the position, so now I make the person on top of me alter what they're doing.

Altering, they have to stop. They have to wait. Now they try for another shot. All of those things are someone who's doing something in an intelligent fashion. Even though they're accepting damage, what they're doing is they're fighting intelligently. You look at that first round, Neil fought intelligently. He was hurt.

But throughout it, he was going. He pulled himself into guard. He tried to get himself back up. He went back to guard. He did all of the things that we look at that were saying he is still in that fight. You get to the second round and Hector's tired. He burned himself out trying to put Neil away. And then he gets hurt.

And then he's in positions where now it's different at the end, near the end of that second round. he's got Neil on his back. He's what we call rear mount. He's got hooks in. And if you look, his legs are up off of the ground. So he has no hips. His hips are gone. And all he's doing is getting hit.

And he's in that position where we'll say, if you hear me tell you, move, get out, and you don't try or you can't because of the position you're in, the fight's coming to an end. And that's why that would have been the difference in why you stopped in the second round. didn't stop it in the first. Were you given any guidance, was any of this guidance given to you by like the UFC, the athletic commissions? Like, where are you? I think that, I think that's my answer. I like that. That's beautiful. You know, that, that's the whole thing is, you know, now I teach

classes and stuff and I try to get people educated as far as why we do things, what we want to do, and it's so people don't make mistakes that I had to make. But, you know, I had to learn on my own. You know, back when the UFC started, you know, there was. nothing like it. And I was the pariah. People looked at me and, you know, other referees from boxing, you know, I was the bad guy. So none of them wanted anything to do. I had to figure things out. I had to do, I had to make a mistake, look at it, say, okay, how did that mistake happen? And what can I do to make this better the next time? And it was trial and error. And so, you know, now I go and I give that information to every referee I can in MMA because that's what's right for the sport of

MMA. Whether the referee uses it, that's, you know, upon them. I can't tell them, you know, what they have to do. I can tell them this is what you should do and this is why. And then it's on them to do the right thing. When Neil Magny got hit in the second round, he went backwards and he landed right in his guard. I remember something like that, correct? He acted him like a straight. He went backwards. Sometimes a guy gets hit. He hits the canvas and just by a look at his eye or you guys catch a little bit that he goes out. It's over. Like once he goes out just a little bit, you guys see that. I don't see that at home. I don't have the eyes. Like it's very weird that you knew Magni was doing, he was hurt, but he was just at home. You were that experience. You could watch

it on the TV and you pretty much know, I didn't know at times if he was heard or. Well, when you look at You know, let's take a look at that. And there's different types of knockdowns. And obviously there's a ton of different knockdowns. But I'll break knockdowns into five different categories. All right. And Neil Magny had the very first category. When we have a guy, we can all fall backwards.

Okay. We're not meant to go backwards. We're meant to go forwards. As a human being, that's the way our body is set up. But Neil gets hit with a shot and he goes back. But when you see him falling down, the first thing you see as he's going backwards is you see his hands starting to go backwards with him. and they're going backwards to actually brace the fall.

Right. Okay. That right there tells you his brain is connected. He knows where he's at. And it doesn't mean that the guy can't come and follow up and hurt him more and put him out. But at that moment, I'm going to let the fight go because I see that his brain is still working. He can still function and he's in a position where he can defend himself. Then you'll get to the next type of knockdown. The second type is going to be where he gets hit and he's going backwards.

But the difference is he doesn't. put his hands out. And sometimes guys are still, they're not completely out, but they're going down and their hands are starting to try to go that direction, but they're still either down by their sides, out in front of them, sometimes up. That's one, that's a step up by far. And that's, you become more acute to looking at the fighter and getting information as quick as you can as far as am I going to let that continue on or am I going to take them out. Then you'll get ones where guys fall to the sides. We as human beings don't fall going to sideways. If I stand you here sideways and I push you, your foot's going to automatically step out

and catch you. But when your brain is disconnected, your foot doesn't go out. And so when you get pushed, you just start doing the leaning tower and you end up going down. And so that's the next evolution of the knockdown where someone is going down going sideways. It's telling you they're having a problem. Their brain has been at least disconnected where the neurons aren't firing the right way. The type you get is they go forward. We don't fall forward. If I see, you know, come up behind you and I push you as hard as I can, you're going to start to almost run to stop that momentum and slow yourself down and keep yourself from falling down. Because we've got these big flippers in front of us. They're called our feet. But if someone goes forward and goes down, it's telling you they've been

disconnected. And the last one you'll see is you get the ones where sometimes guys just, they get shut down like a computer. And, you know, Crow Cop, when he got kicked by guns, Zaga long ago. And they do this. It's almost like they're a building in Vegas, a hotel that's being brought down, and they implode upon themselves. Their brain's been completely shut off. It's telling you, well, those are things that as a referee, you're looking at and you know, so they help you as far as that time. You don't have a lot of time. So you utilize those things to give you an idea of how hurt is that person. But there's times when we'll get guys that Benson Henderson was the first, you know, was the one that a lot of people talked about.

John Couch is Benson's coach. John Couch is an outstanding coach. He just does a great job with his guys. But Benson fought, you know, Raphael Dos Angeles. And I did the fight, and he gets hit with a shot, and he gets hurt.

But as he's going down, you can see his hand going down, and I'm coming in to look at him, but I know he's okay. I'm going to let him go. And as he comes up, he gets hit with a shot, and I watch him.

He just implodes. He goes out. And I'm telling myself, I'm stopping the fight because he cannot defend himself when he's out. And as he hits the ground, he kind of comes out, but I'm already pulling Los Angeles out. And John Couch, you know, his coach is going, John, John, you got to give him a chance to recover.

And I said, John, he went out. And he goes, no, you got to give him a John, it's over. And, you know, John and I have known each other for years. And we kind of had this thing. And finally, I told him, I said, you know, shut the fuck up. And he looked at me and I said, I don't want to hear a goddamn thing. And later on, you know, he comes up to me and says, hey, I'm sorry. And I said, no, I'm sorry.

I go, but he went out, John. I said, how many shots do you want me to take when he's unconscious? How many shots do you want me to have him take? And he goes, no, I want you to protect him. You did the right thing. But these are those things. We can never predict the future. We can always use hindsight to look back and go,

ah, you know, that would have been better if we did it this way. But your job is to protect the fighter when they can't protect themselves. And that is a decision that is not an easy decision because you want to let the fighter go as far as they can go in the competition. I always say, I want the guy, you know, I'm going to let him swim into really deep waters, but I am not going to let you fucking drown. Okay, that's not my job. My job is to keep you from drowning.

And if you're starting to drown like Hector Lombard was yesterday, fights over. You know, it showed you, look at what happened. He got a minute's rest. And then he comes back out and right away, what happened? He's done because he has pushed himself past a point where his cardiovascular, is out and he's accepted so much damage at that point, he just doesn't function as the fighter that he really is because he's been altered by what Neil Magni did.

I've seen it a lot where a guy gets clocked and the floor wakes him up. Absolutely. I see it a lot. And the more, the more the sport has progressed since having a fan maybe eight years. I see that you guys catch it right away. Even the guy goes, what, you were out?

And all of a sudden I go, whoa, what happened? I know it's nice of the replaying, sure enough. Just the tap. You see the eyes. You see the hands. And then once they hit, yeah, now they're back or whatever, but they're not really back. They're just back in like a, you know, I got hit and a hand with a few pipes. I know exactly what it means.

It's that feeling. Get that buzz. How quickly does time move for you during the fight? I would imagine it goes really slow. You know what it does? And that's, you know, when people are asked me all the time, it's like they'll sit there and they go, oh, you did that really fast. And I'll feel like, you know, Jose Aldo fights, you know, Connor McGregor, 13 seconds.

It's not a lot of time that was in that fight. But, you know, I can tell you every second of what occurred where I was, what I saw. And, you know, when they first came out, you know, Connor does a little kick, and then he throws a left hand. And it touches him stuff. And you can see Jose starts to bounce a little bit. And he comes forward and he goes to throw the. hook and Connor does a beautiful job of stepping up, boom, he lands the left hand while he still got hit.

And, you know, as Jose's going down, he's out. He's out. He's out. When he hits the ground, he actually wakes up. And Connor comes down and one hammer fist, he goes out again. And I'm rushing in. And as I'm rushing in, it feels like forever. It feels like I can't get there.

I'm running in mud. I'm trying to get as fast as I can get over there because I'm seeing. it and I want to get there and it and it always feels like as soon as you get done with it, I should have done that. I should have been there faster. And you look at it afterwards, you go, yeah, that was actually not, you know, that was, I got there faster than I thought because you do, you do kind of run in slow motion. When does the, when does it start?

Is it when, like, when you get in the K, like, when do you start going in slow mo? No, you don't, the slow motion is only when you have that, you're trying to get somewhere to stop something. You know, during the regular fight, you know, everything is the same, you know, speed. I'm seeing things exactly like everyone does. I look at things differently than the fans looking at. I'm looking at where shots are landing. I'm looking where things are at because that's part of my job.

But as the fight's going on, people ask me all the time, you get nervous and stuff like that. No, I don't get nervous at all. I get excited for certain fights because I want to see them. I think it's going to be a great fight. But, you know, I have a job to do it. I'm busy doing my job and everything's normal.

It's always the time when you're wanting to get somewhere that it seems like that time is like, it slows down. do you ever get caught like enjoying a fight or or like let's say someone gets knocked out and you're like, oh shit and then and then you don't realize

you're like, oh no, I have to go get this guy. That hasn't happened as far as I've gone to a different place but I enjoy, you know, while they're fighting at times, you know, there's times inside I'm going, oh fuck that was awesome, right? Or something like that. I'm not saying anything. Everyone thinks I'm still mad

because everyone thinks I'm angry all the time, but I mean, I'm enjoying the hell out of it because you're close to what some of these guys are doing. It's incredible sometimes. And what's incredible is some of what they take and the damage they take and they keep on coming back. You look at, you know, a Robbie Lawler against a Rory McDonald. You know, in that fight, you look at what went on in that. And I could tell you, you know, from the first round, you know, it was fairly even and stuff until Robbie landed a left hand that it broke Rory's nose. You could see it. And then Rory started having a lot of problems that, you know,

that most people don't, they don't see, they don't understand, they don't even realize it's happening. You know, he's starting to get more damage as the round goes on. By the end of it, he's got a cut inside of his mouth and he's got a broken nose. And then by the end of the second round, he's got another cut inside. And then he's got a cut underneath his eye. Well, the cuts around his eyes and stuff are not that big a deal if, as long as he's able to see. He's got a cut on the nose of his bridge. But the cut inside of his mouth, one of them is bad.

and it's bad that he's having a lot of blood in his mouth. The blood in his mouth is not that big a deal. The nose that's broken is he's bleeding down his throat. That, you know, as far as it going into his stomach, that's not a big deal. You know, if he ends up taking so much, he'll end up throwing the blood up. But because his nose is broken, you know, a fighter breathes through his nose and he's, he can't breathe through it. So he's got his mouth open and he's sucking in these big, gulps of air as the fights going on because he's becoming more exhausted with what's going on and

his effort is still out there at a high level. But when he's sucking in the air, he's sucking in the blood is starting to actually get little droplets that are, you know, they're aspirating the droplets of blood and going into his lungs instead of dropping down into his stomach. And he's breathing that blood and that blood is now starting to stick inside of his lungs and it's starting to make him slow down. And so as the referee, I'm looking at it going, when is Rory going to fall off the cliff? Because he's working at this high rate,

and I can see what's occurring, and I can see that he's aspirating blood. So I'm having doctors come in between rounds to look at him to say, hey, can he continue to go? And they keep on saying he's okay. And it comes to a point where he gets hit with the one hand. And the one hand, his nose was already broken. It hurt him, but it was the accumulation of everything.

and the exhaustion because he is not having his lungs work the way that they normally work. He's got this blood that is now inside of him sticking. And so that oxygen transfer to his muscles has been, you know, depleted by, we'll say, 50%. He's running on these fumes and he's continuing to push and go hard to the point where you just, you know, like anything, like any mechanical, you know, car or plane, it just gets to a point where the pressure builds too much and it bust. But those are the things that, as a reference, you know, like anything. I'm looking at while the fans going,

this is a great fight. That was a great fight. Oh, it was a great fight. I know from getting hit in the nose, a lot of things happen. And yeah, people at home don't know these things. That's what really gets me. The MMA community is so intelligent,

so many ways, and there's so many other ways, they're so lost. You know, they're so fucking lost. Yeah. You know, and it's, that's why I started going to Jiu-Jitsu. That is the reason why.

and now I understand a lot more what's going on. Well, not a lot more, but I understand breathing, and he's on his back, and this guy's on top of you, the whole for four rounds, the guy's on top of you.

There's a lot of pressure. Just throwing punches. I can't even imagine. I can't have somebody in my clothes guard for four minutes. I can't imagine a guy throwing bombs on you, and you're trying to get an underhook or whatever the hell it is.

But that's amazing about Rory, that you wouldn't know that at home. I just thought his nose was broken, and he's having a hard time breathing, Because what happens when your nose gets broken If you blow it, you're fucked No, that's if you break an orbital One of your orbitals in your eyes

Which is these really small bones that on top and bottom That it basically hold your eyeball in place They're a very thin bone and they can crack But if they crack and you blow your nose The pressure of you doing it is going to send Air from your sinuses into that cavity Because now there's a bone that's been split So that in your eye kind of goes

And blows up like a balloon real fast like Matt Matrione. Like, well, Matt Matrione's was blood. There's a difference. His was done by a break in the orbital, and then there was blood that filled into it also. That's why it got big and kind of purplish looking right away. What does the bone sound like when it's being like smashed into a thousand pieces?

That was the thing when I went to, I've only been to one UFC. And I, like, just hearing the kicks and all that stuff was crazy. But being three feet away from a bone just smashing to a million. pieces? Well, they don't smash, but they do snap, and it's kind of like a stick. So you hear it. You definitely hear it when it goes.

When I was about 17, I was playing basketball one night, and a car pulled up. There was a buddy of mine. He was got to get in the car. Our friend's getting into a fight, and he's by himself over there. Let's go. And we went over there, and as we pulled up, our friend, there was like eight guys there, and our friend had a T-shirt off. He had his jeans on, he had work boots on.

And as we were getting out of the car, the guy was like, ready, ready. the guy threw one punch and our friend came up and caught him in the face with a workbook with the steel tip and it was like something out of a movie he caught him right here the guy I didn't see

as much as the foot hitting because there was a circle of people already I just heard like the Lee you should have just and you just he just went backwards and his nose was open

like it was busted here and blood was coming out already. But as the minutes were going up, all this was starting to swell. It was horrible. I had to get in the car and get the fuck out of it before the cops got that. His name was compa, compa, and he was just a karate guy. He was a bartending, and he went to this bar and he was having problems.

And it was like, we want to fight you. Okay, I'll fight you. Hold on. At least let me wait for my friends to get here so I feel comfortable. And they let him. And he just, first fight, bam, done. And I saw that, and I was like, you know what? I ain't going back to karate. Wait, can you explain that again? That's something that I don't think most people deal with.

He kicked them in the face. No, no, no. He was at a bar. He was at a bar. And we're playing basketball. My friend pulls up. Lefty Cortina. He's a teacher now in Washington High School.

And he goes, get in the car, a friend, whatever, compas get into a fight. He wants us to go down there. But it wasn't a fight. He agreed to fight them at a bar and called you guys in. Yeah, just so he had the backup. So, but I'm a young kid. This guy's 24, 25. He's a bartender in the same.

city somewhere. I just know him because we used to play basketball and my friend Lefty's backyard and he was always there. Lefty's father was a fucking doctor and he had a huge backyard growing up so we'd play hours of basketball back there and he was one of the guys that played so the night that I happened to go back

there with him and he calls me over. This guy got kicked in the face with a work boot. You have no idea Lee. You have no idea and he just lay there. He just lay there. Another night I see a friend of mine Tommy Russo, this motherfucker outside of Tom and Gorky's,

and the guy went down, and his eye started blinking. I ran like 15 blocks before I stopped. I was never so scared. Because, you know, I grew up on if you're there, you're an accessory. Like that type of shit. I wasn't there there. I was standing outside hanging out with these guys,

and all of a sudden these guys got into a fistfight. It's scary. I can't, I don't want to, dog. I don't even want to be a part. I got beat up a couple times, and that's... The best one, man, you want to you, I think what Lee's talking about, you get these zones.

Some of these guys are, you know, gypsies or travelers or, you know, these guys live by the bare-knuckle boxing as their way of settling disputes. And they set it up. You know, they got this guy that got a dispute with him. And they set it up to the point, boom, you know, and they fight it out. Sometimes, you know, for them, you know, they still don't like each other, but it's been settled. You know, and you get a lot of these guys, you know, the bare-knuckle boxing champion right now. Because there actually is. There's a guy named Bobby Gunn.

Bobby Gunn was a cruiserweight in boxing. He was world champion at one point in the end. Bobby has been fighting, you know, bare-knuckle boxing for a long time, and he's smart about it. And you watch some of these guys fighting these bare-knuckle things. It's not like people think. You know, it's intelligent fighting.

It's all set up, but they're all staged up together because someone had a dispute over here, and this guy didn't like it over here, so we're going to settle it. When you were a kid in the second grade, this guy stole your fucking erasing. Oh, yeah. What did you do?

You met him outside in front of the school with three o'clock, and everybody was happy. That's it. When I was growing up, there was a fight once a month at 3 o'clock. You could count it,

like the after-school movie. You count it. There was always a great little fist fight, something. Now, you know, whatever. What are you going to do, gentlemen? Hey, you know what?

If you grew out like with my dad, man, you know what? It was okay to fight. The big thing was you weren't supposed to start it. But if someone wanted to fight, you better stand up to him because if I find out that you didn't,

you're going to be taken down there, and you're going to, until you beat his ass every day, you're going to be going back. And that's just the way, that's the way I was raising. Now, one thing I'm completely lost on when it comes to MMA. You know, people, again, the MMA community is very intelligent. Some of them. Right.

And at the other end, it's a complete whatever. And I'm part of that I complete whatever. But I don't make points about it. It's the point system. I've never etched to find out because it's not my occupier. patient. And I don't want to sit there with people and argue what I saw and what they saw. And after a fight in Vegas, we go to eat and then we fight. There's a fight on the card. This is a decision. And they sit there for two hours. What do you think? I don't know what the

fuck to think. I saw him punching him in the face 18 times, but takedowns are big and at the end of the round and controlling somebody on the gate and who's the aggressor. There's so many little things that I don't really know. Like even if you punched me in the head eight times, but I I chase you down all fucking night. I went, you know. No, you don't. You lose. You got punched in the head any times.

But if I was aggressing you, like chasing you and maybe, who knows? So, Lee had, what the fuck you said before? I was just wondering if there was a reason why there couldn't be some sort of scoreboard. I know they do, like, significant strikes and they do all that. But in my head, what I was imagining was if you've ever watched like World Poker Tour, they have like their percentage chance of winning. They show you the guy's hands, you're saying. Well, they show you their hands and they show you the percentage of their chance to win.

I just, for the average fan, it would get rid of a lot of those arguments, but actually, maybe the UFC likes that. It keeps them talking about the fights. Maybe that's why they do it. You know, in boxing, they tried. They put up what they called publicized scoring. And at the end of the round, they would project the score of the judges up onto a screen. So you would know who was winning in that fight. And it's like anything.

A certain type of scoring system is going to work in one fight where it doesn't work as well in another fight. And so what they ended up having is they had fights where it actually made the people's, you know, seeing it, they realize I'm behind and they're going after the person. Realigns, I need to win this round. Or both fighters know, I need to win this last round. And it makes for an exciting fight. Yeah, it sounds like it. But what they found out also was, that many times we had this person that was winning,

and he won the first six rounds of a 10-round fight, and then he just decided to take it off and cruise because he knows that he's up. The only thing he doesn't want to have happen is get knocked down. And so the fighter ended up actually making it a boring fight because he's not fighting. Now he's just being a defensive fighter. And so they looked at it and said,

it helps in some and it hurts in others. And so they kind of got away from it. I was going to say it be only for the TV, but then they'd have people texting them. Trust me. Yeah. They're smart enough. Exactly. If you're going to put it out there,

you're going to publicize it, they're going to have a way of knowing. And so the fighter will look out. The fighter will look out. But this happened in the UFC maybe a year ago. I think it was maybe the Greg Jackson camp. In between rounds, you had a microphone over there, the UFC.

And he sent this fighter in, telling him that he was ahead in points, and he really wasn't. And Dana said something after, a fight sending your fighter and letting them know you were ahead of points so i don't know how it went down i don't know if you remember how it went down or somebody said something in between around to one of their fighters and letting them know they were down and point i don't know i just i get fucking confused well you mean you get a lot you know that Greg jackson and mike winklejohn

you know they have a system you know people it's it's funny because they're they're one of the best i've ever seen they influence judges and because if You have Greg and Mike are together. Greg's the grappling guy for the most part. Mike is the striking guy for the most part. And so if they have a fight where the fight ends up on the ground, you're going to hear Greg giving instruction. He's going to be telling his fighter what to do.

And you're going to hear Winkle John become the cheerleader. And he's going to start, you're doing beautiful. That's it. Beautiful. Beautiful elbow from underneath that way. And he starts cheerleading. If it's opposite and it's a stand-up fight, you're going to hear Winkle John giving the instruction, and you're going to hear Greg Jackson,

beautiful, that, a beautiful left hand, that's the way, that's what we're looking for. And it gives all this stuff because they've got it down to where they know they have codes that they say, and they're telling the fighter what they need, but they're also kind of trying to influence the judge who's sitting somewhere by them,

because there'll be one. And I can tell you, you know, I've gone, I normally don't look at, you know, scorecards, but I'll watch a fight, and you'll have, you know, one of Greg's fighters in it, and I'll watch the round. And I know his fighter loss. There's no doubt about it.

And I'll go up to the corner that the judge is sitting near his corner and I'll pick up the score of court. And God damn, if he didn't give it to freaking he gets influenced. And you've got to learn how to keep that from happening. That's part of being a professional and stuff. But when you're looking at the scoring, the scoring is not like people think. And that's the biggest problem is, you know, the UFC, and this is not against the UFC, but they put information out on the screen. Joe Rogan says things at times.

You go, no, that's not right. You're putting out bad information, and the information they're putting out is they basically put up on the screen before the whole show starts is, you know, this is a judge, you know, judges are scoring the fights on, you know, effective striking, effective grappling, ring or octagon control, and effective aggressiveness. Okay. Well, they're making someone look at and say, well, those are all the elements and so you score them all evenly. No, you don't. Okay. There's only two elements of a fight, all right? If I sit here and, you know, if Joey and I are going to fight and Joey decides to move forward, okay, and come after me and look mean, and he doesn't hit me once.

He doesn't grab a hold of me and clinch and take me to the ground. He does nothing as far as striking or grappling. What do we have? We've got ugly guys dancing, okay, doing nothing. That's not a fight. Okay, let's talk about where it's the cage control. We'll say I stand in the center of the cage and I make, and Joey's, he's bouncing around the outside and I, you know, I'll take steps towards him. He kind of backs out. And then, you know, I'll let him come towards me and I'm still in the center and boom, I'll make a faint and he backs out again. Again, it's bad dancing. It's not fighting. There's only two elements that make up the fighting as far as that scoring. And that is effective striking and effective grappling. And it's your ability to understand what is effective striking. Effective striking is not being the one. and you get these, the U.S.EO put out, you know, significant strike stats.

Whoever pushes that button is a fucking moron, okay? Has no idea of what the judges are looking for as a fight. It doesn't understand what's important in the fight, because it's not how many times someone takes their hand and hits another person in the head, body, or anything like that. It's how much force did he do it with? Because if I ask you right now, I'm going to sit here and say, I'm going to hit you with four japs, boom, boom, boom, boom, quick japs.

Okay. or I'm going to hit you with one giant right hand that hits you upside the head. Which ones do you want? You want the four, you want the one. Four jabs. Bingo, because you're an intelligent human being because it's not going to damage you as much. So you're not going to take the big right hand that's going to damage you more than the four. But if we look at a significant strikes, we have four to one, right?

Which one is the one that's more important? The big, powerful right hand is the one that's more important. And so that's what the judge is looking for. We had the fight with Carlos Condit against Robbie Lawler, and it really came down to one round. The judges were exactly the same on every round, except for the third round. Two judges went with Robbie, and one judge went with Carlos. Carlos being out of Jackson Winklejohn, okay? And you can sit there and you can watch that fight.

I can break it down perfectly for you, because significant strike-wise, the UFC counters basically had Carlos, you know, throwing three, times as many punches as Robbie Lawler. They're right. He threw 80 punches in that round while Robbie threw 26. All right. But if you look at the true significant strikes, the ones that landed, the ones that actually had an effect in the fight, out of the 80 that Carlos threw, and I was the one refereeing it, so I'm telling you, as I was in there, the whole time, I'm going, he's missing, he's missing, he's missing. Out of the 80 that he threw, he actually landed nine that I would give as significant. Now, if you want to count his front lead leg kick to the lower leg of Robbie, which doesn't do anything, you can bounce it up to 14. Okay?

That's what he landed as we'll say significant, but not any of them were that heavy. We look at Robbie Lawler, 26 is all he threw, but he had 12 that were significant that landed with heavy power. One being the best one, which was an elbow that he hit Carlos with it, that made Carlos react and go back. and you look at everything and the judges, the two got it right. Carlos won the round. It's not who throws the most. It doesn't matter how much you throw. It matters how much you damage.

How much are you connecting and how much damage and how much deterioration are you doing against that fighter? That's what they're looking for. It's not a game of tag. If it's a game of tag, then it's how many times you tag them. But in MMA, when it comes to the striking, it's effective shots that have power. The judge is looking for damage. He's looking for big shots that do damage to that fighter. That's what they're looking for first. Then they're looking for quantity. The Nick Diaz land a bunch

of shots, but now, I'll tell you, you know, being someone's been there with Nick, he lands a lot shots, but then he'll land ones that have power too. But we'll give over, you know, a couple, if we're going to say, you know, two powerful shots, he landed the whole thing. But this guy landed, you know, 43 shots, well, the 43 are going to win. Quantity is going to beat the quality in that because it's so much. But this is what the judge is weighing out. Then you get into the grappling and you have all these people thinking that a takedown is this giant element in the fight. It's not.

It's what you do with the takedown. That's the element. If you take somebody down, there's a way to get points on the judge's score cards by the takedown. How many points do you get for a takedown? There's not a specific point thing. But it's what type of takedown do you hit them with? If you get a takedown where you know what, you work and all of a sudden you, you know, I hook the leg inside trip and then we both go down,

there's nothing really that that takedown did other than change the level of the field. Instead of us being now both vertical or both horizontal, so what are you going to do with that takedown now that we're on the ground? That will let the judge say, okay, I'm giving you, that was a takedown because now you're doing good work on the ground. You get credit for that takedown. But if you take the fight down and you don't do anything with it, It was no different than if we're in the standup, and I take this great angle on you,

and I go to throw a shot, and it misses and nothing. I don't get credit for the angle I took. I get credit for what I was going to do with the angle. Same thing with a takedown. Now, we can have a takedown where, you know, I get a hold of you, and I get behind you, and all of a sudden I'm suplexing you over. That's a takedown that has what we call amplitude. It has elevation and impact.

If we get a takedown that has elevation of the fighter and boom, he comes down and there's big impact, the judge is going to give a good score as far as they're going to put that into, you just did something that affected the fighter in the fight. I'm going to put that towards you winning the round. It doesn't mean if you don't do anything else, you're going to win it just because of it, but that is a takedown that's going to score for you with the judges. In their minds, that was significant. If you have that type of takedown, we can have it, but we can have takedowns where I get somebody really high.

And then there's a struggle and also we end up on the ground, but there was no impact. So what are you going to do with it? That's what the judge is looking for. So when the judge is now looking, you take the person down, you stay in their guard, and you put your head in the middle of their chest and you go body, body head, and you do that for a minute and a half. And this guy on the bottom is hitting with elbows and stuff. You're not doing anything to win yourself the fight.

The judge is not going to be giving you credit for that takedown because you're not doing anything. that's impacting the fight. Now you take the fight down and you hit him with heavy shots on the ground. You make that person have problems. They're going to say, that was a good takedown that led to more things.

They're going to give you credit for it. Frank Yeager, Cub Swanson. Every time Frank, Cub Swanson threw a fight, Frank Yeager got him with that little thing he has and he takes you down a la George St. P. What did he do with the takedown? Cub was in trouble when Frankie was on top of him.

He's getting credit for the takedown. Okay. This was an education for me. I knew nothing of this. I thought all take down to like Jiu-Jitsu, four points to the Mount three. That's how confused. I was. And that's what we'll get, we'll get a lot of guys that come from Jiu-Jitsu and they're sitting there but he got Mount. He did nothing with it. The judge isn't going to give you any credit for Mount. It's not four points. All right. You get side control. You don't get three points. It's what do you do with the side control. What do you do with the MOUK? In fighting, especially because of strikes with MMA, there's a lot we can do with that mouth.

well, just do it. Go after them. We're looking for the fighter to try to do things to end the fight. Your job is to go in there, and from the moment the fight starts, your job is to do things that are going to cause you to be able to end the fight down the road. Be it 10 seconds down the road, be it 20, be it 2 minutes, be it 10 minutes, be it 15 minutes, you're always working to end the fight. That's what we want out of the fighter.

why doesn't the UFC just have rafts do the judging because they have a few rafts there like why isn't it just not round robin because the biggest complaint I've heard about the judges is that they aren't aware of the rules of the sport like they're my mocking judges so they might not know

graveling you know and that's not true look it's not true no I hate to say it it's you get you get these it's like you know painting the broad strokes are there people what what happened with MMA is when MMA started to get really going with a lot of regulation, a lot of these states were not prepared to have people judging. And so they had people that were martial artists or boxing

people that said, I can do that. And because they were people that the athletic commission knew, okay. And they put them in there and those people had no idea how to truthfully do this the correct way. And so that caused problems. And it's taken a long time. But if you look at the people that are out there judging fights, you know, now, you know, the Derek Cleary's, the Salamottos, the Chris Lees, you know, all these people that are, you know, the ones that a lot of people are seeing a lot, they're very good at what they do, and they're very serious about what they do. And they're, they're going back and they're, trust me, if I show you my phone after a big fight, if there's a decision, those guys are all texting me, John, did you watch a fight? Yeah, because they want to

know it. Did I see something wrong? Did I do something wrong? And it is, the one thing that, you know, off of judging is judging no matter what, we try to objectify it as much as we can, but it's always going to be subjective. And the one thing that most people don't get is we get this where we have these judges. We put them at these three different positions in that, you know, cage. The UFC doesn't give them good seats. They give one a good seat. Two of them have the cage door right by them. So they got posts that are blocking their view a lot of the time.

They have a referee that's moving around inside. So there's many times that these two judges are going to see something occur why this guy doesn't see it at all because he has something in his way. And that's, you know, what they're doing in that position. It's not the best seats that they can give them. The worst thing that we do is we put judges here down on the floor and we have this octagon that's up here. And so they're looking up the whole time.

If you took them and put them above that octagon, they're going to see more. They're going to be able to see a lot more that goes on, and they won't miss as much, but we don't put them up there because then they're blocking people's views, and I can understand that too. But, you know, we don't do our judges any favors in how we, you know, where we put them and what we expect of them. There's a lot that's expected.

It is not an easy job. And there's always going to be, when you're watching a fight, most times you have people that are, they're rooting for one person over the other. They want, if it's, you know, Frankie Edwards going to fight, you know, Connor McGregor, There's, we'll say, 50% that want Connor McGregor and 50% want Frankie Edgar. So the 50% that want Connor, whatever Connor does, they give it more credit than it deserves. And whatever Frankie does is not quite as good as it really was. And so by the end, they look at it.

Oh, it's easy. Connor won that. When the judge is not, they don't give a shit who wins. All they want to know is for five minutes, I'm going to give constrictors. I'm going to watch everything that I can. And I'm going to look and I'm going to read what the fighter is telling. me because fighters speak. They're not talking verbally, but through body motions, they're telling the judges what hurts. Sometimes they do things that it really didn't hurt them, but they have

this habit of doing something that's telling the judge it hurts by how much they'll give ground and, you know, flop back into the cage fence or something like that. And you tell them afterwards, dude, you're doing stuff that's telling the judges that hurt you, that had impact. You've got to stop doing that. But the judge is reading that fighter because the fighter talks. You watch Johnny Case when he was fighting yesterday. And you see him, you know, he's doing really good. And all of a sudden this kid throws a front kick to his body and he gets hit. And you see him just do this and he sets down on it.

That body motion is telling the judge that hurt. It's going to get credit in my score. And those are the things that they're looking for out of the fighter. Do you get any input at all as a referee or no? Input into who wins? Yeah. No. No.

Well, I get input at all. when it's, oh, that guy does not, are you ever consulted for, like, what percentage of these controversial decisions could be fixed by those issues that you said? The problem is when you sit there and you say controversial decision, most of the time, it's not controversial. It's a close fight. And again, you have half wanting one fighter and half wanting the other fighter. And so all this half says those judges were absolutely right. They're smart. That's this great job. And this half saying those judges sucked. It's not, it's, there are

close fights. So the media is just feeding into that and saying it's controversial? Absolutely. Absolutely. The media puts it out there. There's a country, you know, right away. You had Benson Henderson fought Gil Melendez up here in San Jose. Yeah, it's probably about three years ago. Benson Henderson was the champion.

Gil Melendez was coming out of Strike Force. He was the champion there. And they matched him up. And it was a close fight. I was a referee for it, man. And I'm telling you what, at the end of it, I was like, thank God I didn't have to judge that. Okay, because I knew it was that close. And all the scores were the same except for one round. Two judges went one way. One judge went the other. And Benson Henderson wins a split decision over Gil Melendez. One round's the difference.

Same as Robbie Lawler fighting Carlos Condit. One round, one judge goes one way, two goes the other. That's the difference. And everyone goes, it's controversial. It's not controversial. It's a close fight and the judges are telling you it's a close fight by what they're seeing and that's just the way it is when you've only got three or five rounds you know sometimes they don't work themselves out you know to the end I hate when people come you know after a fight what'd you think joey well how do you score it I don't I don't know even know what it starts and that's the best part is you you sit there and go dude I don't know how to score it I just I just know how to enjoy it now a fight's coming to Glendale.

UFC's coming to Glendale. And I raised my hand and I want to be a fucking judge. Coming to Glendale, bro. What's the process? You want to be a judge? I'm just hypodermic, whatever the fuck. Hypodermically or hypothetically? Hypothetically, I want to be a judge.

I'm a black belt and traditional karate. I've won a couple competitions. I have my own school. That a baby. Okay. Let's pretend. What is my process? The true process now here in the state.

to California since Glendale is California. If you want to be, we'll say a judge. First off, that's awesome. We love the fact that you want to be a judge. So now we're going to tell you, okay, so what we need you to do is go to the gym and start learning everything that these guys are doing. Okay?

Everything that there is. I need you to understand the ground. I need you to understand every submission there is. I need you to understand what that submission is, what it's affecting, and how it needs to be defended. I need you to understand the stand-up game. I need to understand what those kicks are exactly where they're targeted at, why they're targeted there, what's effective, what's not. I want you to tell me exactly when we talk about stand-up.

I need you to be able to tell me who's winning the stand-up and why when we have these certain elements occur. So I need you to start going to the gym. And that's going to take you, honestly, you need to be there for several years before you're going to have an idea of what to do. Let's pretend I've been a martial artist since I was saying. I walked into John McCarthy school. All right. So we'll say that you're that martial artist. Let's be telling you a black belt and traditional taekwondo and a purple belt in your jih jih Tijuana.

Okay. Okay, I'm 35. I competed a couple of times. I got a couple gold medals, whatever, you know, locally. You couldn't come up with silverhead. Family guy. I just want to know how the neighborhood traditional martial arts. All right.

So we'll say that you're a guy that's been involved in fighting. Right, right. So you're that guy that's been involved. So you don't have to start going to the gym. So now what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to pick and you're going to have to go to a certified course. Here in California, there's only two that you can choose from. All right, that's going to be John McCarthy's or Herb Deans.

Not your gig, the judge. Yeah. The guy who scored. Judging. Okay, okay. Here you go. So you got two courses that you can go take. You can go take Herb Dean's MMA camp, I think, is what he calls it.

Or you can go to John McCarthy's command course. Okay. So if you're going to do that for judging, it's going to be, a two-day course in mind. It's a one day for herbs. So in the two days, I'm going to go through everything that is the criteria for you for judging MMA. We're going to talk about those things. We're going to talk about what the criteria is for it, what you need to be looking at, breaking things down into quality over quantity, all these things, demonstrations. I am going to have you sit down and we're going to go through submissions and we're going to go through, okay, look at,

this is what an eviscerator is. This is what, a Von Fluchoke is. This is what an anaconda. Here's a dars. Here's your arm bar. And we're going to go through all these things. We're going to go through take downs. We're going to go through, here's your double leg. Here's a single leg. Here's your Uchima. Here is your Sienagi. Here's what Hara Gosh is. And we're going to go through all those things. And then we're going to start watching fights. And we're going to put fights on that are fights that are going to demonstrate certain things that I want to point out to you. We're going to have you judge the fights. We're going to have you talk about why you judge that round.

the way you did. We're going to talk about, you know, what you needed to look at. And then you're going to get tested on this. And you're in that test, you're going to end up having to, in mind, you're going to end up having, you're going to have to take a techniques test. So you'll get 120 different things that are going to be put out there. This could be, you know what, a suplex. It could be, you know, an armbar. It could be an Americana. It could be positioned, basically, you know, side control, uh, ex-guard, you know, miscarbizabeth, you know, you know, mission control, all these different elements of fights that you see the element, I need you to be able to tell me that's exactly what it is because you need to understand what you're looking

at. So if you can pass that with a 90% or above, then you move on. And then you go to, you're going to have to go and now you're going to take a written test. The written test is going to be things that you need to know about MMA for, you know, the association of boxing commissions who governs all the regulatory bodies throughout North America. That's the test that they want you to have. So you have a written test. Then you're going to take a test on a fight and you're going to watch a fight and you're going to watch that fight and you're going to judge the fight. And as you're judging the fight after the round, you're

going to write down your score and you're going to tell me exactly why you picked the fighter that you did in that round. What elements were that changed you from saying, I'm going to go with this fighter. I'll go to this one and this is why this is what he did better. This is where he was, you know, the more effective fighter. And you'll do that for a five, round fight. And if you don't get, you don't get that score right, you're going to fail that. And so you've got to fail all, you've got to pass all of these things at 90%. You pass that, you pass the course. And from that point, you can now go to amateur MMA. In the state of California, we have the Cammo, which is California Amateur Mix Martial Arts

Organization. They do all of the amateur fights here in California. And your name will go to their database. And you can sign up to be an official with Cammo. In a VIII, a VIII, and a Eventually, what they're going to do is they're going to bring you in as an inspector, someone that actually watches the fighters in the back, watches the taping hands, learns how hands are legally taped, all the different things that happen in the back. You're the one that's going to walk out with the fighter. When they are going to the ring, you'll be in their corner. You're the one controlling their corner of things.

They're going to start you out there. And eventually they'll say, hey, we've got this show, and we're going to have you shadow judge it. And you'll start shadow judging other judges. So you're going to sit next to the judge that's actually the judge of it. and you're going to give your score while they're giving their score, and you're going to turn your score in. And once your scores are in line where, you know what, you're judging things right, they're going to give you that opportunity, and you can start to judge.

And from that you get to judge, you have to judge for at least two years here as an amateur judge before you can even think about trying to get a license with the state of California as a professional. And once you get the, if the state of California decides, they're thinking about giving you that license, you're going to start doing that shadow judging thing again and going to shows on your own time, sitting next to the judges and giving a shadow judge score

until they see, you know what? This guy does, we're going to give a chance. And then you're going to start off in the slow shows. And you're going to start off in the slow shows. And you're going to be going to be doing those for several years. And eventually, if you've proven yourself and you've gotten to the point where you've proven that you understand how to judge a fight

and you are in the upper scale of the people that they have, when that UFC comes to town, maybe after about six to eight years, you might be put on to that UFC show. UFC Bellator, you know, yeah, one of those things. That's a long process. It's a lot more than people. No, I thought it was like a 90-dayer.

Yeah, no. And that's why there was so many fucking bad scores sometimes. That's why I thought there was somebody, you know, from what you're telling me. And what I'm thinking about, the only thing I can think about for bad scoring is, which this is how naive, I am about that stuff.

Like, I can't believe that you would judge a fight going 50% for Nate Diaz or 50% for Connor McGregor in your mind. I'd figure there'd be a way you to take that. No, no, no, no. I'm saying the fans, 50% want Nate to win and 50% want Connor to win. So those 50% no matter what they do, they kind of look at it and they're always siding with their fighter. You know, the judge doesn't give a shit.

Who wins? The judge is giving credit for what is being done in the fight. They don't care of Connor McGregor wins. They don't care of Nate Diaz wins. They care that the right person wins. And trust me, it's a huge difference. We did a thing here in California where we actually did a little, I did a small course and did a little teaching thing for the media.

And we're talking about guys from, you know, MMA fighting, ESPN, you know, guys that are, you You know, the bigger, you know, Outlets as far as, you know, the media, they came and, you know, they watched some stuff. We talked about it. And then we took them at a Bellator, and we put them next to the judges and had them judge the fights.

And afterwards, they all said, I'm never going on the media anymore and saying, oh, this is controversial. Because they got that feel. They understood what it was like and the pressure that's involved. And they realized, afterwards that, hey, there's times that, you know what, I didn't get to see that

because the referee was in the way. I didn't see it when that supposedly happened. And it happens. That's just part of it. As the, you know, there's all these different things people are trying to do. Oh, let's put them in a room or something like that. Sound is a big element. It's the same thing as what you were talking about with that boot when it hit that man. That's all I remember. That's all I remember. What did that sound tell you? That his face was gone. That it absolutely hit it. Gonely. Gone. And I didn't see it. And I didn't see. it, I was coming this way. Yeah.

I heard it maybe 15 yards. And it was the weird, like everything here had caved in. Something had caved in. But that sound told you, oh, man, that had impact. Sounds important for a judge. A judge uses their ears to say that was effective, that wasn't. And so, you know, all of this is not, there's nothing perfect. The problem is everyone looks at the UFC and goes, those are UFC judges.

There's no freaking UFC judges. What the UFC does is they're smart enough. There's no UFC. The only UFC referees there is, if you want to say it, was John McCarthy and Mario Yamasaki. Okay? Long ago, I was working for the UFC. Before there was, you know, all the regulation, I was a guy that would, you know, go to the shows and stuff, and I was under contract with them.

And then they brought in Mario after a while because they needed another referee. And we were working for the UFC. But once this whole thing got bigger and stuff in state regulations, I couldn't do that anymore. And that's why I worked for the state of Nevada. I work for the state of California. I'm licensed in a lot of different states because if you're the state, if, you know, Andy Foster is the boss of California's athletic commission. He's the executive director. He has five bosses over the top of him that are the commissioners, but he's the one that's doing most of the legwork.

And he's going to tell you straight out, you know, why do I put, you know, John McCarthy or Herb Dean as my referee? Why do I want them? Because they take the pressure off of me. If John McCarthy goes out there and makes a mistake in the big UFC, no one's going to look at me as Andy Foster and say, you screwed up by putting him as the referee. But if you put somebody in that is someone that a lot of people don't know or has less experience and they mess up, you know, you look at, you know, what people are talking. talking about with the Magni Lombard fight. Steve Percival is the referee. He's taking a lot of heat, okay, right now over that fight.

And that heat is now being secondarily placed on to the commission that's there in Australia because they use him. If you're Andy Foster and you use Herb Dean or John McCarthy, we screw up. Everyone attacks John McCarthy and they attack Herb Dean, but they don't attack the state of California and Andy Foster because who else did you expect me to put in there? Who was going to be better? And so, you know, that's what the UFC looks at at times with people they try to get these athletic commissions.

Hey, we will pay. The UFC is paying for my travel, for Herb Dean's travel, for Sal DiMottos, for Derek Cleary's, wherever it is. You know, when I travel somewhere, the UFC's paying for my plane ticket. They're paying for my hotel room because they're, wanting to have these people that they believe in, that they believe understand this sport to the point where the chance of the mistake is going to be less. And so they're willing to do that, but they still can't force that on these state regulations

and these athletic commissions there. So you can have an athletic commissions. We'll say, you know, we'll say North Dakota is going to, the UFC is going to do a fight there. They're going to have people that have been working there in the state. Now the UFC is going to say, hey, you know, we have this list of all these people you can pick who you want, but these are people that sometimes come to our shows. We will pay for them to come. We'll pay for all the stuff. You just have to, you know, pick which ones you want,

but they can't force that state athletic commission to pick any of them. And the state athletic commission sits there and say, nope, we're going to go with all of our people. And that's what they'll do. And then hopefully nothing bad happens. But if something bad happens, then it goes back on that person. And then the state athletic commission has looked at as bad. So there's this weird balance of people doing things, you know, trying to get, you know, people that they like, you know, you look at what happened in Massachusetts with a Matreone fight. The person that was the referee there is from Massachusetts. He doesn't do a lot of fights.

He doesn't do a lot of shows. There's not a ton of practical experience over and over. You know, I'm doing, I do usually two shows a week. You know, if you're doing six shows in the year, there's a difference there as far as just repetition and being able to, you know, be more up on things. And so that's what happens with these places, though. UFC, Bellator, they can't force these commissions to bring in these referees or these judges that are the guys that have proven themselves to be the higher standard of the sport.

I have learned more from this podcast. And now I can say, you know, because the only problem I see is I like the idea of raising. That, you're absolutely right. Well, couldn't they just watch from, like, a bull? in like a skybox or something? You know what? And this is the whole thing. Again, sound.

It is. It's important. Sound, sound. You're right. I was there when Johnny Hendricks knocked out John Fitch. Yeah. It sounded like a fucking firecracker

went off. You know, I was there when what's his name kicked. And I had Judge, like those are the best seats for me. When Anderson kicked, what's his name in the face. Those were the first one,

Joe didn't get his floor seats. We sat on the sides. And that was a better seat. I saw it. everything. I saw little things that, and then at home you see a lot more. Yeah. Who's not yelling, go fuck yourself. Who's not falling down the stairs. Who doesn't have a, you know, big breast walking down the thing. Who's sitting next to you, look who it is. So you get distracted. You get distracted.

Oh, yeah, you do. You get distracted. You know, there's something about being at the fights, you know, Dana says it all the time, and he's being honest when he's saying it, fights are electric. You know, the energy in the crowd. And I'm going to take it. I'm going to tell you right now, if you want to watch the fight the best that you can, watch it at home. But if you want to experience the fight, the greatest way to experience it is be there, because it's the crowd and the energy and everything

there. You're not going to see the fight as clearly when you're there. But you absolutely will get the entire, you know, experience more by being there. The experience is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Lee, we went one couple times. It's a beautiful experience as far as, you know, the music, the

sound, the, the, how loud out it is who you know you're Riah Faber sitting over here who's not sitting over there you know this chick from my name is Earl remember we were going for a long time yeah Jamie Presley would always go and you know that's the but after a while like getting

the fuck out of there is a nightmare like I had it down to a science once the fucking the last fight started the first round went all the way I got up Jack I'll be right back where you go I'll be right back I'll go up to the top of the stairs

and watch and take my time and watch. And then the fight went to the third round. You always went on to the hallway. They got TVs. And you sit there like a doctor. Nobody bothers you. As soon as somebody gets knocked out, I'm out of that.

I don't wait in the hallway. I don't hear about who got robbed. It's a fucking bummed decision. Fuck you. Let's take a picture. But the experiences are amazing. I know that I get lost sometimes watching standoff. Dave Chappelle's at the store.

And I go back there, and I'm in with him for three minutes. I'm fucking with him, Big John. I'm giggling. And all of a sudden, something happens, and I go away for 10 seconds. That ever happened to you? Just 10 seconds. Never happened to me. And then it comes right back, and you're like, okay.

You know what I'm saying? And it's not that you drift. You're still watching it. But something goes away for a little while. And then it just comes back. Like that, like what Lee said, holy shit. Look at that knockout. And all of a sudden you're on top of that.

Oh, my God. I would die. You know what? As someone that when you're working them, your intent and your whole thing is, what people don't realize is you have a huge responsibility. And it's a responsibility that, you know, it's not understood until you're put in that position.

That I've had fighters' wives come up to me after. Their husband has lost. And they've come up and said, thank you. Thank you for protecting him. And you look and you go, hey, my pleasure, you know. And I can't tell you how much I respect the guys that I get to work with. What I get to do, I'm honored by being able to be in there and do what I do. But I take it serious.

And I take it to the point of I do care about the fighters. I do care that they don't take what I call unnecessary damage. A fighter is going to be damaged. That is part of being a professional fighter. It's part of what they sign up for. You're going to get hurt. You're going to, you know, there's things that are going to be done inside. that cage. Sometimes, you know, nothing, you know, you're Conn McGregor, you win in 13 seconds,

you still got a cut over your eye. Okay. You're going to get damage. That is part of what you signed up for with this sport. But when it comes to being damaged, there comes a point where it becomes unnecessary damage. And that's what I can't take. I can't have people being damaged beyond that one point, and when they start to take unnecessary damage, that's when I'm there to stop it. And because as the referee, you know, there's a club out there, all right? And that club is of people that don't want to be in it. Those are officials that have been in charge of fights where fighters have come in, they've given everything they could, and they were not able to walk out of that cage or ring. They died. All right? This is a serious sport. This is a sport where

people can die. And if you allow that to happen, now there's some things that can happen that are completely out of your control. But there's that point where you know you should have stopped the fight, but you let it go because of all people in the crowd and you wanted you to or whatever your excuse is. You let it go. That person dies. You're going to live with that for the rest of your life.

You will sit there and replay that moment of when you should have stopped it for the rest of your life. That is something that will never go away. And there's a lot, you know, I can start naming them off for you. There's a ton of referees that have been part of fights where a person has died and they've all taken their lives. They've all killed themselves because they live with that thought of, I could have done that differently. I could have stopped it and that person might still be here. That's what you are living with when you're working in the combat space. sports. Now, let me ask you a question because it was intelligent what you dropped before, Roy McDonald. At home, we saw a busted mount. We saw a busted fucking face.

Sorry, Lee, we saw a busted nose. You know, I know he can't breathe. I see the gulps, the whole thing. You know, you talking about going into the fourth round when you're sitting at any point, do you say yourself, maybe I should just fucking stop this. Oh, I don't know what the fuck is good. These motherfuckers don't know. You know, you're there. You're there with me. You go to Ugi-Naki me, and I land on one knee, and I still have the underhook under you, and you throw a knee or something, and you see me go up and you see it hit my larynx or something.

The people at home just see it as a strike. You know what's going on right now. He's a little things like that. Have you ever thought, oh, trust me, this fucking guy, because he's getting him in the head of He doesn't even know what the fuck he's going to feel like tomorrow right now. Maybe I should just... You know, there's all kinds of things that are out there. And, you know, people can...

They can think what they want. I'll be totally honest with you. My wife's sitting right here. She's going to know what I'm talking about. But, you know, there's fights. I get people all the time, you know, especially from the early days. I used to tell fighters all the time, look it, if you get hurt, you need me to get you out of the fight. Tell me.

I'll get you out of the fight. I'll take the blame. You know, and I would stop to fight, you know, referee stoppage. And people would say, you're an idiot for stopping that. He was doing that. And you're right. You got it. You're, I'm an idiot.

You know. But it was the actual fighter saying, I'm done. I can't go any farther. And I'd stop it. And I'd say, referee stop it. I wouldn't say he would tap out. I wouldn't say there was a verbal. And I used to do that.

And then it got to the point where, you know, the sport changed to the point where you couldn't really do that. But, you know, there are fights out there. Paul Buantelow fought a guy named Karel Sidilnikov. And he was called Baby Fedor. And I use this fight when I teach now, too, because I did the fight. It was an affliction, too. And, you know, Karel was supposed to be the next big thing coming up.

And Paul Wontello was just beating the dog shit out of Keryl Sidelnikov. He was hitting him with a jab. It was a stiff jab. And he did it from round one into round two into round three where Kaddil was cut all over. He was having problems. And I could see the problems. But he's from Russia. He's tougher than hell.

His corner doesn't give a shit. They're going to send him out for the end. And it gets to him. a point where I have a little signal with my doctor. I stop it for a mouthpiece coming out. I call time. I bring him over the doctor so the doctor can check. But, you know, I give the doctor a signal, which is telling him we're stopping the fight.

Okay. And now I'm going to use the doctor to be my guy to stop the fight because, you know, everyone looks at the doctor as the doctors are smarter than John McCarthy. And that's good. They probably are. Okay. But if John McCarthy had just jumped in and waved his hands, people would have gone, no, you know, and thought I was an idiot.

But if the doctor comes up and looks at him and goes, you know, no, it can't go and I turn around with my hand, the fight's over, everyone's, they're good with it. You know, and even in that fight, the commentators look, you know, and at the, you know, the doctor comes up and they say, oh, the doctor's looking, you know, yeah, you know what? Yeah, that was a good, good decision by the ringside physician to stop that fight. Carrillo had had enough. It wasn't the doctor. It was me, but I sell it off a different way because it makes it more palatable to the, you know, 14,000 people that are there. They can't hear anything. They don't know, but they see the doctor and they go,

oh, there must be something a lot worse than I know, okay? Our whole job is to look at a fight and try to let the fighter manage his way through it. But if they are absorbing so much damage that they can be damaged for the rest of their life with what's going on, our job is to get them out. When I went to the GSP, John Fitzhrupp, and I went down the wrong way with Eddie,

me, Eddie and honorary went down the wrong way and I ended up being in front of the ambulance and they put John Fitchin. When they wheeled them towards me, I cried. I cried like a manly. I fucking cried. I couldn't believe that he had this beaten.

And GSP didn't look that good either. He didn't look very good either. GSP didn't look that good either. He was walking around. He was a champion, but he was fucking hurting. I couldn't imagine that. I went home to the hotel that night and I was like,

I don't even want to eat dinner. Because I can't imagine that. Those are all the things that, you know what, every week you're dealing with. Because, you know, you look at, you know, GSP, how many times do you actually fight? 27, 30, okay? That's how many times he fought, you know, if that, that's how many times he actually fought. I do 27 to 30 fights, you know, in the month, easy. And I've been doing it for 22 years.

So, you know, those are the things you look and, you know, I deal with this all the time. And I deal with guys. you know, what is occurring in a sport. And our whole job is to, you know, become more evolved as far as what we do. And our job is to, if we understand that a fighter's in trouble, take care of the fighter. Sometimes you can't.

Sometimes they're in that position where they're actually, you know, in the fight to the point where you've got to let them go. You know, there's a lot of things that I'll think about, you know, when I have a fight going on and, you know, part of it is, you know, in my mind, does the fighter have the ability to win this on the cards. You know, now I don't know what the cards are, but I have a pretty good idea if he's been getting his ass kick.

No, he doesn't. Okay. What's best for the fighter? What's best for the sport? What's best for the fans? But what's best for the fighter always overrides the other two. And you've got to, you weigh those things out at times. And there's times when you're going to let a guy go because he has won this fight up to this

point. He has been winning this fight. You know that on the scorecards, this guy is, he's ahead. is the fifth round of a five-round fight, and you know that he's won at least three of him easy. And he's in trouble now. You're going to let him try to ride it out because, hey, he does have a chance of winning this. But you will not let it ride out to the point where what's the best for the fighter at this point? If he is not in that position where they are fighting in a competitive or intelligent manner at that time, it's time to get him out.

This has been the most shocking. I almost got sick. You know, Ms. Mack, I almost passed out before. I looked at you. He was talking about blood and shit. I had to start breathing out of my fucking nose. Hey, we weren't going to talk about M. M.A. right?

No, we weren't. Let me give some shout-outs here. You're in a rush, Miss Mac? No. All right, hold on one second. Willa Postalos, the Greek, J.B. Beeson, Alex Castino. Henry Hemmison, good to meet you last night over at Bakersfield. My man, Mikey Stein, a one-by-one podcast, Heisenberg,

Uki-Spooky, Andres Silva, the Australian War. warrior my main man down under. I don't know what the fuck this is over here, but I'll catch you tomorrow when I figure it out there. What's up with you, Lee? I'm doing, right? It's an education. Yeah, it's amazing. Guys,

I'm sorry, I didn't say much for a long time. I was just recovered. I really was. I was like, heck the lumbar. In between rounds. When you were talking about blood and stitches and going down his fucking lungs, oh my God, I almost passed out. You know, I'm really prone to all that stuff there.

Now, we're going to switch it up from M.A. Because this is, oh my God, you fucking blew my mind, and I haven't set a peak since our phone call. As you know, the hottest show in America, if you're over maybe 34 right now, the People versus O.J. Simpson. I fucking love it. First off, I'm a law freak.

Any law and orders, that's my shit. Law and order, SVU, I can't watch because of the rape and shit. I can't tolerate it, so I don't even put that shit on. I don't have the stomach for all that woman stuff. It's too much sometimes. It destroys me, SVU. But law and order straight up. I will watch it for the trial

and sit there and take notes at 2 in the morning like an asshole you know me Doug so when this came up I wasn't going to watch it but I worked with somebody and they said that they had shot this series and when it comes on make sure you watch it

it the people versus OJ's says I'm going to watch it for I lived it and they're like no no no nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah they're like this is what was going on behind the scenes and the racism and all the that that that that that the that and then I called John McCarthy

and they just squashed me. He just said, listen, fuck you, fuck racism, fuck all this shit, all this shit, all right? This is exactly what happened. And when you said it to me, it made all this sense in the world because I've been watching all those shows lately about the football players, you know.

So what was your take on this whole thing after six episodes? Let's cut through the chase. Well, I mean, as far as the show, you know, the TV series, my wife hates it. You don't like him? Why, what's the problem? She lived through it.

She lived through it. Right, you live through it. live through it. What you live through it? You know, the whole point is this, you know, I'm not, I'm not big in the race. I mean, I don't give a damn if someone's purple, okay? You fuck up, you fuck up. That's it. That's it. You're either a good person, you're a bad person, okay? The color of your skin, you're, you know, your religion, you know, where you come from, I don't give a shit. Be a good person. I'll be your friend. Be an idiot and I'll be your worst enemy. That's, you know, just the way I look at life.

But, you know, that whole thing with OJ is when, you know, in watching it, you know, you look at everything that occurred with it and, you know, you know, straight out, you know, not a doubt. OJ. did it, okay? He got away with it. He got away with it because of lawyers and because of people, you know, that at a time kind of wanted to prove something, I think, in a way. I don't know. But when I look at it, you know, back when I was on LAPD, they brought the pictures of Nicole Brown. Simpson and Ron Goldman brought him up to us because we were supposedly the experts in they're saying, hey, what would do this?

You know, how big of a knife? And I remember looking at them, you know, the autopsy photos of her and the actual crime scene photos over. I mean, he did a number on her if you look at it. And there was a lot of violence there. And there was violence with Ron, and you could see defensive wounds on his hands. And there was a couple that was, you know, on one of his eyes, he had been poked twice. you could see with a knife.

And it was, you know, why? Because someone was seeing if he was still alive. You know, they said, why would that be there? Because he thinks that he's still alive, so he's poking him to see that he's not. You know, and so, you know, you look at this and, you know, and I'm the first one to tell you, you know, back, you know, I was an O.J. Simpson fan. I mean, I was a huge fan from, you know, when I was growing up. Monday nights. When he was playing for SC, you know, I was always a Notre Dame fan, but I loved O.J. Simpson.

And so it was okay if OJ beat, you know, Notre Dame. And then, you know, he goes to the pros and, you know, the 2003 or whatever it was season or whatever, I can't even remember. I say 2003 yards, not the season, whatever year it was that he did that. I mean, I was a huge fan. I even, you know, as an L.A. police officer, I stopped, you know, I was on a stop that he was part of and stuff. And, you know, because he was O.J. Simpson, you know, I was, you know, hey, man, you know, let him go, man. That's the juice. But I look at it now and you look at what's come out in football and you look at what's, you know, in fighting and traumatic brain injury and the CTE that has, you know, come about and you have the show concussion that Will Smith just did the movie.

If, you know, you have an idea what's going on. But all of these football players, Junior Sayout taking his life and Dave Dewerson taking his life and Andre Waters taking his life, all with these problems of anger, depression, all of these. things that we now know come from all of these repetitive hits to the head, all of these things that O.J. Simpson had for all of those years throughout his high school and college and then all the years of being a pro football player, and he's close to 14 years as a pro, he fits into the perfect category of this is a guy that is suffering from CTE. And you look at the timeline. He retired from football in 1980. And this happened in 1994.

14 years later, take a look at what's going on with these guys. And when they're having problems, I'm not saying it takes away from what he did. It was absolutely horrible. It should never happen. But I think, you know, when you look at OJ now, from what I hear, OJ being in jail, he's like a child. He has problems with memory. He doesn't remember anything. He doesn't understand.

why he's there at times. And all of those things are exactly what you're looking at with a guy that has CTE, which explains that loss of control and that loss in that rage of what could lead to this one incident. I mean, how many fucking times the cops go to that house? Quite a few. She had 60 some different. Because when you said that to me last week, you know, when this went on, I was going through my own divorce. so I was taking a kill him that bitch myself

and this just fed into my fucking fire you understand me I mean I'm dead serious I was going through Alan Bold on it with a child in the middle and it was just it would get worse and worse and you know money and we've this guy

you know but I followed it like how can this guy do this who would I mean as soon as I saw the paper I knew it was him that's that whatever that Monday morning when I woke up in Boulder and I saw it I had heard like years later he beat her one night

And I just put two and two together. I'm just, you know. Ah, dude, I'm telling you right now, I was one of the dummies that let him go. Okay? Back in like 19... And I loved him as much as you did. I loved him as a kid. I mean, he was everything.

You know, I didn't want to believe it, but then, but when you see the horror of it, listen, you shoot somebody in the leg, you know, what the, he shoot somebody or something. There's a big difference between shooting someone and using a knife. And using a knife. I think of times and heads and this and this. So I didn't know if there was two people involved, you know. And then I got the cut in the hand. And I know that whenever you do anything from my criminal days,

no matter what you do, something always cuts. And you don't feel it because your adrenaline's gone. Absolutely. You don't feel it to an hour later. Oh, Jesus, I need to. My hand, I was hanging from a barbed wire one time with two cops and the dog chasing me. And, you know, I ran all the way home like nothing. I didn't know until I wanted to take the glove off

that they needed stitches and the whole thing I didn't know but my adrenaline got you there so you know you get into a fist fight in this street you get hit in the head you don't even know you're bleeding from your head what happened what are you talking about oh shit so I believe in you know something especially when you use a knife

because the knife slips it's not even that you know he's grabbing a hole and he's you know if you saw the thing there was multiple you know there was a lot of punctures which are straight out stabs and there was a lot of slashes. You know, and he slashed her across.

I can't remember if it was left or right, but it was this giant gash that went from almost her collarbone down here, straight up to her ear. I mean, and it, obviously, the power behind it because, you know, it cut her trachea all the way through. It cut her all the way to the spinal cord, you know, to her cervical spine. So, I mean, there was a lot if you're looking at it, you go, you know, that was a strong human being.

A lot of people are saying, well, he's an older man. No, he's, you know, look, I don't care if he's old or not. He was an incredible athlete, very strong. And, you know, he could do that kind of thing, you know. Unfortunately, you know, we learn things as time go by. And I don't know, you know, for sure if, you know, this whole thing with CT is what happened, you know, and he had it. But I would bet that that was the thing that made him as far as depression on her being,

with someone else and just that rage that you lose it. And because your brain has lost the ability to utilize common sense and that rage builds and it goes because your brain has been altered. There is a disease inside of it. It's based upon what he did for a career in football. It seems like one of the defensive main points is that the cops didn't like continue an investigation. They just focused in on OJ.

Now, here's the thing. I love that. What, as a cop, if you have what they thought was a slam dunk case, are you still going around, like, looking for something even though we have the guy here, but we still have to look around the corner? You know, you can go back and look at that whole thing. And, you know, this is what they had. That's as simple as it gets. You've got, you know, two victims that were attacked brutally. Okay.

You've got Nicole's blood. You've got Ron Goldman's blood. OJ was cut on the finger, but let's not say that we even know it's him. So we have Nicole's blood and Ron's blood at the scene. We have O.J. Simpson, who's got a Bronco that is seen leaving the scene, but the person went and did stories so they didn't use them and things. But it is seen. They go to his house.

There's blood inside of his bronco that is the blood of O.J. Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson, and Ron Gold. Now, O.J. Simpson wasn't a friend of Ron Goldman's. Didn't know Ron Goldman. Why would Ron Goldman's blood be inside of his bronco? Doesn't make sense. If you, in his house, in his washing machine, he had all three bloods that were in the washing machine. Why were they in the washing machine? Because he's washing the damn clothes that he did what, right? In his bathroom, there's all three bloods inside. Now, if you want to sit there and think, this is the part that I love, you know, it was a police conspiracy. Let me, make this as clear as I can for you, okay? I was a police officer, and there's not freaking two of them that can hold a story, okay? To sit there and think that the police

conspired against O.J. Simpson, this person that was this, he was an icon at the time, okay, doing all the different things in the movies, the sports, you know, hurts rental car, commercials, all that stuff. And you're going to get these lowly police officers that are going to conspire

to try to say that he did something when there could always be something coming out saying, no, here's the truth, boom, which only puts them in jail. All right? Yeah, sure. The police conspired to do it because police are so good at, you know, sitting there and holding on to this little secret and they're going to do it.

It's the most ridiculous thing that anyone could ever go with. Policemen are the first ones to roll on each other. You'll get doctors, you'll get lawyers that sit there. You know, police officers roll on each other all the time. Everyone says, oh, there's that blue, you know, that. Thin blue line. Bullshit, okay? Doctors, if I'm a doctor and I know that Joey's a doctor and he sucks as a doctor and someone

asks me, yes, he's a doctor. I don't sit there and roll on. I'm saying that he's doing crooked stuff or anything like that. I just let it go. Lawyers, you know, they don't sit there and roll on each other. No one rolls on each other like police officers, but police are going to sit there and try to conspire to put O.J. Simpson in jail for a double murder. Sure.

Just fucking nuts. It was interesting watching it. it kind of to me seem like blackjack where I learned at first you think you're trying to get to 21 but the whole point is to like have the dealer bust

like you're just trying to beat the dealer the thing with the trial it seems like everyone's trying to beat each other but the whole thing is just trying to get the jury to think that maybe there's another scenario so it didn't even matter

that the cops probably could have never done that it's an education the way they did is they passed off the blood and they had tubes, and they took it home, and they poured it into another one. And that's too much. That's too much. Listen, there was one bad apple.

I can understand. But three guys all that time. And you know what, man? They got the fucking Yankees against two regular prosecutors. They got the Yankees. They got five of the most powerful fucking moms-in-law to attack you. Like they said, you know, this show is written,

but I think it's written from like a lawyer's perspective. to highlight how the attorneys bluff these motherfuckers. You know, just bluffed them. Just bluffed them with magic tricks. It was just a bunch of magic tricks. It really was. The whole thing, if you look at it, you go back and watch a trial. First of all, Edo was about as pathetic an individual as you could get as a judge.

Okay? He let stuff go, you go, you're an idiot, okay? You know, you as a judge control that courtroom, the same as a referee controls a fight. You're letting people fight, but there comes a point. You go knock it off. Okay, straighten your stuff out. Well, points, boom, whatever you're going to do. That's your job.

You're the referee of this trial. And he allowed just minutiae to go out there because he didn't want anyone to go back and be able to say that he didn't offer the ability so it could go to an appeal. Look it, a murder case is always going to be appealed. That's just what happens, especially if you know someone that has the attorneys that he has, they're going to appeal. So what? That's part of the process.

Let him appeal. Your job is to do things straight down the middle. And they gave a writer or front row seat? Like a... Why would he do that? Why would he do that? Because he wanted to be famous. It was about Lancido.

That whole trial became... This is my trial. It's not your trial. It's the people's trial. But you became involved in wanting to be bigger because of this thing. No one gives a shit about you. It's like being a referee. No one gives a shit about John McCarthy.

it's the two fighters that are important. Let that be fair. Let me make sure that they're doing things right. Let it go. The decision came out like 10 o'clock in the morning, right? 11 o'clock in the morning. What was the fucking mood at the police stations around? Oh, we knew.

You guys knew going in already? Oh, dude. Look at it. It was his, you know, look it. He did it and he's going to get off. Really? Oh, yeah. There was not a doubt in our minds.

We were going to be shocked if they found him guilty. At the time, I really thought they were going to find him guilty. guilty. Like at that time, I didn't have any doubt in my mind that he was going to, there was just too much fucking evidence. There was just too much evidence, I thought. Yeah. Yeah, you're looking everything, if you look at that trial, you know, the one thing they didn't bring out in this whole TV show is, you know, Gil Garcetti was the district attorney for city of Los Angeles. Okay. And O.J., that crime, where it was committed, is in Brentwood. All right? That's what we're West Los Angeles police as far as, you know, division-wise for the LAPE, it's West L.A.

Division. And all those preliminary cases of everything that happens in that area goes to Santa Monica Court as far as, well, it goes to first to West L.A. for preliminary. And then if it's found to go to Superior Court, which it would have, it would go to Santa Monica Court. But Gil Garcetti, because he wanted his face on TV. all the time with this and he wanted it present he moved it from Santa Monica Court which is where it should have been to downtown LA it changed the aspect of

the jurors that were going to be part of it you know OJ was a person that lived in Brentwood you know those are the people that you know should have been the ones that were sitting on his jury but they went and they moved it to downtown L.A. So they took the pool came from downtown L.A. Jure selection and that's what you got. And that's just politics of, you know, a DA looking at this, like, this is my chance to really shine and to put myself out there and to be on TV because now I want to be mayor after this. And this is what he got for it. I felt so bad for Darden when he went for the glove try. I just didn't feel, oh, my God.

You look at that and it's like, come on. The gloves were soaked with blood. Okay. So they're soaked with blood first. Then they're put into testing. by the labs. And so there's more fluid that's being put on. What happens to leather when you put a lot of fluid on? It shrinks.

Oh, God, you're a rocket scientist. I couldn't fucking believe it either. I couldn't fucking believe it either. I'm sitting there at home going, this isn't fucking happening. And then it's nobody's figuring out. And then it's not only does it shrink, you're going to put a rubber glove over someone's hand

to try to get it in there. It's like the stupidest. And if you watch the original, not even the TV one, the original, he's fucking acting boy. Of course, he's an actor. He may not be a good actor,

but he's acting. He's acting and he's fucking going like this. The best representation I got of that was there was a fight in Japan. Bob Sapp was fighting Jerome Labaner. It was in the K-1 organization and I was there to do a fight.

And Bob Sap and Jerome were going to do this. We're going to do kickboxing in round one and MMA in round two. And then I forgot, you know, kickboxing three and MMA in round four. And it's going to do this four-round fight. And Bob Sapp almost gets killed by

Jerome in the first round, but he makes it through it. And so then they change the gloves from kickboxing, boxing gloves, to MMA gloves. And he goes through the second round, and he takes Jerome down, and he's mounted on Jerome, and he's hitting him with these giant freaking hammered gorilla fists. He's doing as he's doing this thing. But he can't get rid of him, and it goes to the end of the second round. And so now they're going to go back to their corners and take the MMA gloves off and put the boxing glove on.

and Bob is, I'm tired, he's got Sam Greco and Maurice Smith in his corner, and Sam's slapping him, going, you're not quitting, right? Get your head. And they've got these four little Japanese guys trying to peel the gloves off his hand. But when they're trying to put the MMA,

Bob Sapp's doing the OJ, man. His hand is splayed like this. It doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, right? And they're trying to shove this boxing glove on his hand. He goes, it doesn't, if he's too small. And it was like, hey, he's got the OJ thing down. Perfect, man. Fucking Bob Sally's awesome.

Bro, always an education to have you on there. I'm blown away. I was blown. I didn't know how the point system worked. I didn't know how they were seated. I've been confused. That's why I don't talk about it. I don't really get involved in it

because I knew there was a by-the-way involved to this whole fucking thing with the judges. I didn't know for sure. You know, I was under the impression that, but I knew I couldn't be that stupid. And I know the commissions couldn't be that stupid. I was on the impression You just raise your hand.

They put you through like a little train. Yeah, there you go. You sit and then you talk to them for 10 minutes, and there they are. And that's why all these bad fucking calls or whatever people think. Like I said, if you get beat up or what, well, it's there. It's all the cards. I don't know. I don't fucking know.

Yulee? I have no idea. I have no idea. Look at the shape of fucking me. What's next for you, my big brother? For me, you know, I'm just busy. I'm going to be working here for going to, uh, Philippines coming up next week.

So I go there to do fights. I go to Italy. I go to all over. I'll be doing like five different, six different shows in April here and just having a good time. I'm just lucky I get to do what I do. You look good, you're healthy. Mrs. Mack, you go to the Philippines of them? She's going with me.

Okay, all right. She cost me money. God damn. Hey, listen, the Philippines, you get those little pigeons, but you got to eat the pigeons. You got to eat the pigeons. Camp, no fucking around. We go deep in the Philippines. You got to eat the pigeons with the little foot sticking out,

and they're still clucking in there. You got to eat it's half alive. Lupia, that's what they call it, right? Lou, I know they were, what's the one called Baloo? Balloo? Yeah, they got a bunch of weird shit down there. You got to take shots to go down there? No, I don't have to take shots to go down there.

They're the nicest people, man. Nisest people. Man, I mean, they're so nice. Family-oriented. Yep, great. Worst traffic in the world. Even worse than L.A., by far. Oh, you've been there before?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Multiple times. But, yeah. It's a great place, but great people, man, that's horrible traffic. How's the food? I love the food there. I love the food there.

You eat monkey and all that shit? I don't eat monkeys. Don't be bullshit. There's no reason to eat monkey, dude. You see the monkeys there? Hell yeah, dude. Oh, my God. If I saw a fucking monkey in the street, Mrs. Mack, like hanging, like, I'd die.

I would die to see somebody like a monkey. Remember faces of death when we were young? Oh, yeah. they broke the monkey's head. Lee, you ever watch faces at death than you? No, I'm not going to watch faces.

It's a little Hannibal lecker thing, man. Fucking crazyness. They took a monkey and they put him in the table, and his head was out. You just beat him in the head with the fucking hammer, and then you eat his brains

or something like that, one of these foreign countries. You win? I'm out. I think they do it over at Magnolia where you get those tacos over there, those lizard fucking tacos. Every restaurant I go to,

he has a different animal than I'm eating this. He's been convinced there's a lizard. taco place. The dumplings are made of cats. Listen, Emilio Rivera told you last week

that, what was the percentage he said? Of fucked up meat is found in L.A. at the restaurants. They even have a percentage when they get tested. He ain't bullshit. And he picked your restaurant out.

You get the fucking dumplings down there. You come back with a little different look on your face. Tell them what you did to your dad. No, they might... His dad came from flight. He took him for a little bit of a little bit of, tacos. I said, take him for a nice burger a trout burger. No, no, he takes up the tacos.

The lizard tacos. The guy's home for three days, shit in blood. He can't leave the fucking house. They got to take him for a dichamity. What did you take him for? Where they put the thing, a coffee in his ass. Not an animal. No, it's a... No, the other one. Clonic.

You took your dad for a calonic? Yeah. What kind of... Dude, that's just... He couldn't go to the bathroom for four days. He went to the hushel sushi. He got sick in the sushi. It wasn't like a... father and son colonic past like that'd be weird

I'd be weird give me some paperwork will you the show's always sponsored by on it I love these guys I'm waiting on my new shipment of the Doce protein I didn't even know Doce had Doche's like the man of a thousand things going on he's doing jumping jacks

he's making his own fucking protein He's got cookbooks I love the death You cannot take it away No no he's on Twitter at 8 in the morning pushing deadlifts, people on there. What should I do for cardio? Deadlifts, you fuck. That's it.

Deadlives, squats. Squat till you die. Squat till you die. Anyway, you know, no, no. He's got some stuff going on with on it. So before we talk about, I'm going to wait from my shipment. But you know me, I live on the shroom tech. I live on the alpha brain.

I even had to give my wife a couple fucking alpha brains yesterday. She gave me apple juice by mistake with sugar in it. She thought it was fucking green tea. I go, where did you have that? It was right in front of you. I just gave it to the baby. The baby likes apple juice. But, you know,

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I don't give a fuck what it is. Just because I don't know what it is. I just drink a little rind. I get hammed. I don't drink. But I enjoy wine. And my wife has it with dinner, whatever. But again, what's the toughest thing? After a long, exhausting day, all you want to do is sip a glass of wine and relax. But unless you're playing the head, you probably don't even have a bottle of wine in your house. You already spent enough time wandering through the grocery store looking for bottles. You don't know what to drink. You're calling your friend. He's not answering the phone. You know, you get lost in the wine out. You just end up picking a bottle based on a label. You don't really even understand. Thunderbird. Yeah, Thunderbird. You go home, you're open.

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I got to get a little water here. Mionis are the only underwear I use for Jiu-Jitsu. They're good for Jets. Because when you're fat, the thing falls off, your underwear, you're crack, you're trying to do a fucking homo-plocca, your assholes sticking out. Who needs that aggravation?

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slash Joey and that's it boom we're out of here that's it that fucking drama is over Big John I love you to death I want to call

next week I'm going to Paduca this week but the week after I'm in home all week I love to come on the podcast you can come on my podcast Yeah

I come up to because I gotta go to Tell me when you're ready I got to do something like that Tuesday like at 7 in the morning Rico and fucking Mamba

I got to do radio so I'm up there ready for you go That's all right. So I have a few tacos. That's a nice taco neighborhood. And right from there, I shoot up to your place. What do you tape it?

Most of the time I tape it right at my place. The other guy is way out in Kansas, but it's all right. There you go, man. And I'll take you out on the boat. We'll go out. Look at some ocean. No, no, no, no. I get seasick.

Come on, baby. We've got to go look at some whales and dolphins. Let me tell you. I don't know what happened. I went swimming a couple months ago, and I went on a plane and fucked up my ears. And I'm getting cars sick, but it's hereditary because the baby, I can't take it. I could take it locally. If I take them in a car and we go for a little ride, she gets car sick.

All of us had it. So we got to go on that drama mean shit. That's not good. But this last week, I've got car sick three times, all downhill. Not uphill. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I got sick on the way down in Laurel Canyon, on the way down from Bakersfield, down to five. I got sick last night.

I got sick the other day going into town on Little Canyon. But it's always downhill. So if something's going on when I'm sitting like this, I've got to get like a fucking straight car or something. Figure it out, cocksucker. John McCarthy, I love you, Mrs. Mack, looking better than ever with the fucking hair. Do you, John McCarthy, moving out the fucking out of here. Look at you.

You're a savage. What are you going to do? Sit there and stare at me. Everything all right over there? Everything's great. What's going on with you tonight? We're going out? Sure, let's do it.

We got Ari Shafia's storyteller show. You coming down there tonight? Hell yeah. All right. You're all right? I'm doing good. All right. Thank you for listening to the church.

We'll be back Tuesday night. Don't forget about us. Stay black. Have a great day. God bless you. Have a great Monday. This show was brought to you by Meandies. Get the subscription or a single pair.

Get 20% off of your first order when you go to Meondies.com slash Joey. That's meandes.com slash Joey. And please don't forget, the shipping is always free in the U.S. and Canada. The show is also brought to you by ClubW. Don't ever come home to a wine-free house again. Just go to ClubW.com slash Joey right now. out to get 50% off that's half off of your first order, but only when you go to clubw.com slash joey. That's joey y clubbw.com slash joey.

Show is also brought to you by ony.com. Go to onund.com and use co-boarded church to get 10% off all of the great optimization product like alphabane and new mood. Do you want to just end with uh, I want to be around? And I want to be around Tony Bennett, you bad bitches. Just like that, Lee. What do you think you're dealing with Joey Menanus? I want to be around to pick up the pieces when somebody breaks your heart. Some somebody twice as smart as I. Or somebody who will swear to be true as you used to do.

with me to learn that misery loves company and see see how he does it when he breaks your heart to bits let's see if the puzzle fits so finds when i'll discover that revenge is sweet when i'll discover that revenge is sweet as I sit there applauding from a front road seat when somebody breaks your heart like you