The Church of What's Happening Now: The New Testament - #467 - Dominick Polifrone - The undercover agent who brought down the Iceman

Episode Date: March 27, 2017

Dominick Polifrone, an undercover agent who worked at both the local and federal levels (for agencies such as the Attorney General's office and the ATF), calls in to talk with Joey Diaz and Lee Syatt about how Polifrone gained the trust of and eventually took down "The Iceman," one of the most notorious and feared serial killers and hitmen in history. This podcast is brought to you by:   Blue Apron - Go to blueapron.com/joey to get your first three meals free and free shipping!   MVMT Watches - Go to MVMTWatches.com/church to get 15% off of their high quality watches at revolutionary prices. MVMTWatches.com/church for 15% off, with free shipping and free returns.    Onnit.com. Use Promo code CHURCH for a 10% discount at checkout.     

This podcast is brought to you by Onit for all your supplemental needs. Onit will fill that void. Go to Onit.com right now and press in church and get 10% off delivered. This podcast is also brought to you by MBMT watches. Let me explain something to you. MBMT watches start at just $95. At a department store, you're looking at 400 to 500 bucks. Over one million watches have been sold in over 160 countries.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. Go to MVMT watches and get 15% off today when you go to mvmtwaches.com slash church, CHUR-C-H. This podcast is also brought to you by Blue Apron. As far as home delivery food's concerned, Blue Apron is the king. Go to Blue Apron.com right now slash Joey. Get three first meals free on the arm.

Go to Blue Apron.com slash Joey right now and get your first three meals free with free shipping. Oh shit. We're taking you deep today, cock suckers. The church of what's happening now. It's a special church. Lee Syatt, my favorite Jew in the world, your uncle Joey Diaz, and the motherfucking Beatles.

Oh, river. Oh shit. What's happened, you bad motherfuckers? Uncle Joey here with my main man Lee Syatt. The reason why we're doing this podcast today, this is an unusual podcast. This is the way we started the first podcast. But after Renazizi came on the show a couple months ago,

he had a brilliant idea where he goes over books or whatever. And when we first started the podcast, we used to talk about a lot of different books and whatnot. And there was one fucking topic that's always killed me, and it's the Ice Man, as you guys know. Yeah, he was from Jersey and the whole thing. But let's start from the beginning. I've always been to read.

I've been a reader since Mr. Kingwell left me back in the seventh grade. And I just like to read. I'm an only child and I've always read. I can't read everything. There's a lot of stuff that I read four pages and I've got to get rid of it. You know, if I got 10 books in one day, I would read three of those 10 books because those other seven are just written. You know, sometimes the two, the writers. thinks he's too swarmy or sometimes they talk too much about the same subject like i got a book about

really tomjanovitch about when he got fucking beat up at the laker game by uh kermit washington it was a good book it was very informative but i felt it was very repetitive you know um and then you might read a book that has uh like a movie done around it and the movie's always better in the book or the book's always better in the movie then you know i read silence of the lambs and it's just as good There's the fucking movie. You just have to read, you know, and see what you like. How long do you give a book? Like, how much rope do you give?

Do you give, like, a chapter? Three or four chapters, and I could tell this is going in the direction that this is not going to go. It's like anything else in life. If you try everything on the menu, there's things you're not going to like. That's the problem with books that I think it's so important to fucking read. I think it's so important to fucking read. No matter what you do. I mean, your wife has realized she has to read.

You know, it's so important to give, especially. when you write. The only way you can learn how to write is to compliment it by reading and reading different types of authors. And like I said, listen, man, some people pick up fucking Hemingway and think it's junk. Some people pick up Prakowski and think it's junk, you know, everybody has their own style of whatever. I don't like subjects about the moon. I don't like a lot of subjects that a lot of people would think I like. I like subjects about stories about characters. I like characters. I like to read about the psychology of that fucking character. made him do these things what do you mean character because you seem you really you love

interesting people it seems like why i can't stand fucking boring people you think i want to sit there next to somebody who's telling me about you know the same shit everybody else is telling me you know i'm not normal i'm not like everybody else and i know this going in that's what makes this podcast successful that the people who listen to the podcast are all missing a fucking nuts somewhere on the goddamn line too so i'm not normal but i know this going in right when i talk to the people I know they look at me weird or whatever, my views or whatever. And the same thing happens with books, you know. You're not going to give everybody.

People send me books all the time. And some books I read a few chapters and they're fucking god awful. This is not me. Do you have the thing with like, for me it happens with movies where someone like really is excited about a movie or a book and they sell it to you and then by the time you read it, you're like, oh, this was garbage. Like this, like- Oh, that happens all the time.

Because people have different tastes, so they don't know. I'm into more criminal stuff. I'm into, and I'm a criminal. I always wanted to delve into the mind of the criminal. I always wanted to see what made me do the things I did at the different time periods of my life. I'm 50. When I was 20, if we got into an argument, there was always a misunderstanding that I might fucking shoot you. I didn't know when.

When I did that kidnapping, my state of mind was completely different. I'm not the same person it was today. So I always wanted to study what had made me come to those conclusions. What made me kidnap? What made me pull a knife on John? what made me do all those robberies when I was a kid and all those stupid fucking burglaries that amounted to nothing It was a state of mind that was in you know so I always want to see what people state of minds are I've always been a student of the mind of watching people have you ever have you read a book or or

And just see like it seems fake like because you you're a criminal like have you read a book about a criminal I could tell yeah I could tell when it's a book about a criminal or a book about somebody nostalgic about something. It's two different things. Okay. There's two books about the Ice Man. There's the one that Bruno wrote, Anthony Bruno, the one we're going to discuss today, which focuses more on the investigation.

Okay. And there's one that a guy Carlo wrote, that that was the one that they optioned at first for Mickey Rourke for this movie about the Ice Man. The Carlo book tells you all the... I think that by the time... I don't know which one of these books came first. But by the time the Carlo book came,

It was what happened on his HBO specials. He just started glamorizing it. And he just started getting, you know, he was responsible for JFK. He was there when they killed that guy, Joe Marries. He was, he had, towards the end, he was saying that he was there when they shot poor Costalano. You know, he just started. So he, I think the other book, he talked about more hits that we had never heard about. And now I'm starting to wonder about those hits, a lot of them.

This book, the one we're going to discuss today, we're going to have, Dominic call up today. All right. This guy's name is Dominic Prolophone, and he was the undercover cop for the ATF that worked closely with Essex County to take down the Iceman. His undercover name was Dominic Michael Provenzano.

You know, he kept it the same, and we're going to ask him about undercover questions. I mean, you know, is it true? Like, I always thought, like, when I lived in Boulder, the cops that undercover cops that worked in Boulder that came from Boulder, usually arrested people on Aspen. They were sent to Aspen so nobody would know them.

How far apart of those two cities? Four hours. Okay, because here's one of the things I'm going to ask him that just, he talked about, he was from Jersey, and he had brought, like, he grew up in the area. I don't, like, that doesn't seem far enough apart from it. Right. That's what I don't understand. It seems like he could be at, like, I don't know, like, home goods or a store, and just like a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it.

Like, and he did, it's not, it's not, it's sounds like he did a bunch of them like he was I read some things and he he talks about like the process he went through I'm very into like it sounds like he was like almost kind of like his own boss I watched too many movies you have to be if you read this book you realize what I've been telling you people for the last 20 years and I'm going to ask them right in front of you people that for every 100 kilo million dollar arrest you see on TV they blew nine of them they blow nine of them they blow nine of them they blow nine of them Because once you get all the bureaucracy involved

and all these white dudes who think they know what they're talking about, that's where they blow the case. Like there's a part in this book and we'll discuss with Dominic where he's in already. He's in with the ice man. He's in. He's in with him. But now they want to send another guy in with him to make an introduction.

This guy's a professional. If I'm doing business with Lee, one-on-one, every day Lee comes to me and brings me guns. And one day I don't see Lee for four days, And he comes back to meet me and he shows up with somebody. I yes him to death. I keep my aunts is very fucking loose. And I get in my car and I go home and I got to assume as a professional.

That's an undercover cop. See, this is what I'm fascinated by is that's what I would imagine, especially on the Iceman's level, that he would be way more cautious. Way more cautious. And then one time, like, apparently, like, they wanted to get the Iceman for the murders. So Dominic was talking about how he had him talk about each one of the murders on a recording. And I'm just thinking like, how is this guy bringing up random murders? And how does that not set off bells? Well, you know, before you, it's like going for the pussy before you kiss her tithies.

If you don't kiss her neck and the titties and you just go right for the pussy a la Trump, it's not going to get you anyway. This is a process. If you come over overzealous as an undercover agent, they're going to sniff you. And if you don't look at people's eyes and you I mean there's so many fucking things that I used to read as a criminal Like I once read I once heard from one of my friends when somebody brings one of those people put a blue suit on them If they look like a cop they're a fucking cop So you know I never ever ever in all those stories I'm telling you guys for fucking 10 years of all the bullshit I put up on I never really had too many contacts for cops

Because I smelt them I I know exactly when somebody shows up with a cop. Even when I was a young kid, there was a really interesting story when I first left North Bergen in 83 about a guy who was coming to the bar and bringing us all back to his house and taking out drugs in front of us and jewelry. I knew that guy was a cop. I knew that guy was a cop the second time I went to his fucking house.

I put it together. How many more times did you go to his house? That's it. Oh, thank God. Okay, all right. Like, that's, it just seems... That's it. I didn't want to be on camera.

I didn't want to be bringing people in. Would you leave the area? Would you go, like, go out of state for a few weeks? No, no, no. I went over the second time, and I just thought about it. It sounded too easy. Even at the age of 19, I knew if it sounded too easy, it was too fucking easy. So you're inviting 10 strangers from a bar to your house,

and you're taking out pieces of gold and half ounces of blow, and you're showing all this jewelry. You're looking for something. Don't get me wrong. In my 20 years of fucking doing all that shit, I bumped into a lot of stupid fucking people. I bumped into a lot of stupid people that had no idea who they were dealing with

when they're taking out jewelry at two in the morning and showing people, you know, the guns they have. You're just setting yourself up for somebody to rob me. So it was just your... Or somebody to take you down. It was just your inner feeling, your gut feeling that separated them between too easy and a cop. Too easy.

It's too easy. There's got to be a little bit of resistance somewhere. This was too easy. You're bringing me to your house, or you're showing me your safe? You're showing me your bedroom. You're showing me your jewelry. You're turning me onto coke. You're dropping names like that's going out of style.

Something's not fucking right here. Yeah. And did you ever, did you hear of someone not following their gut? Like, that seems like where you're... All the time. Listen, if you read this book, the Ice Man did not get caught because the cops were that good. The Iceman got caught because... As you get older, you get tired.

And as the more you do something, you get repetitive. And no matter how careful you could be, he was leaving, you get sloppy. You could be tight for six years. Not everybody could be perfect 100 fucking percent. So we're all going to make mistakes along the line. Cops, detectives, investigators, they pray for that one mistake. That's all they pray for. Kiklinski did it with Dominic.

He got so much trust into Dominic. He had killed Prongay by that time. He needed cyanide to kill people. He had to go out in the open. He had to go out in the stomach. That's what that expression is called, going out on your stomach. You know, a lot of people don't like selling drugs. There's a lot of money in drugs.

But you know what happens when you sell drugs? You got to go out in your stomach. You got to expose yourself. So a lot of people do great unless they have to expose themselves. And it seems like he really, at least at the beginning, made a really big effort to not expose. No, six, seven years. He had a regular family life. They had a great, the way he was doing things, the hits.

He was selling weapons. You know, he kept it to a minimum. He dealt with the, it's a lot. The more moving parts, the more chances of you getting popped. And then I know he's going to call soon, but as another criminal and you see someone like this and all of his associates are getting killed, all of the Icemen associates are getting murdered. Why are people still working with him? Like, that just seems crazy to me. Why do people still smoke cigarettes?

Why do people still go to the McDonald's? Why do those people still do cocaine? Why do people still buy fucking shitty records and go to fucking shitty restaurants? It's the same reason. We all have weak points in our eyes. You know, when I kidnapped Kent Vela, that was a very weak point for me. Why? Because I wouldn't be caught dead talking to those guys I got in trouble with.

Not in a million years would I be caught dead talking to those fucking idiots. But I got desperate. I let the junkie and me take over. I wanted to believe that Tidwell was the real deal, even though I knew he was a fucking joke. That's the line. Now you wanted to believe. I wanted to believe that he was the real deal with the motorcycles

and the tattoos and the pit bulls and the tinted windows and the loud stereo and the strip clubs and all that shit and all his fucking stupidity about his partners. Well, I have some partners that were doing time. Which gives a shit. I really wanted to believe that that was all fake. But I knew deep in my gut it was all fake. And then when I got sentenced and I saw him mopping,

and he was a trustee with a fucking on parole with a violent crime, and you're a felon. You've got to be a rat to have that fucking job. But that's the mistakes we all make. Listen, I was dimming and dabbling since I was 14, 15, right? Selling little masculine, selling acid. That all counts. To all the shit you do.

You know, you always ask me, how did you get away with it? Because I did it with people I dealt with, I grew up with. You know, I had six or seven customers. That's it. Once somebody comes to you and go, hey, I got a guy that wants to buy 10,000 hits once a week. Sounds too good. Sounds too easy. Just like that, he's going to give me a fucking, I mean, if you read this book at the end with Dominic,

he wanted Sinai, he was going to sell Dominic, a half million dollars worth the weapons and try to shoot him. And he was going to fucking kidnap a Jewish kid that wanted to buy three kilos all in one day. By himself? No. So he was going to meet Dominic. Dominic was going to bring the Jewish kid that were going to spray cyanide in his hamburger and then fucking kill him and then split to $85,000 for the three kilos. And Dominic would have had him on murder.

That's the last thing Dominic was trying to set him up with cyanide for him to put on his hamburger, for him to, and then on top of that, he was going to set up a deal for Dominic to buy silences on the 38 on 22s to sell to the Irish Republic. And when he showed up at the half a million dollars, he was going to kill Dominic and take his half million dollars. Exactly. I hear you. Uncle Dominic. Hi, Joey. How are you, buddy? Thank you very much for taking the time to call.

On the line, I got special retired agent, one of my new uncles, Dominic proletphone. I've been a fan of yours for 20 years. You know, I saw you on the HBO documentaries and stuff, and I was talking about the book one day, the other shitty book, the Carlo book, and a mutual friend of ours connected us together. And this is one of my best days ever in podcasting because we get to read a book and we get to talk to a real deal.

How you doing today, sir? I'm doing good, especially when I speak with you. Oh, my God, it's been, And we were talking all week. You told me to read this Ice Man by Anthony Bruno. I passed it on to my partner, Lee. Lee, say hello to Mr. Prolophone. Hello, Mr. Prolophone.

Prolophone. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And we're both sitting here in shock. You know, I read this book thinking about the Iceman, but I ended up learning about a fucking cop from New Jersey that has balls of steel. and I also ended up learning about myself where I got the craziness I have installed in me and it's somewhere in that water in northern New Jersey, brother.

I'll tell you one thing. I'm surprised our cats didn't cross. You know, I was right there from 80 to 85. Like I told you this morning, in the book they mentioned you kept meeting him at the Vince Lombardi truck stop. And Oregon and New Jersey are the only states that you can't pump your own gas.

When you go to Oregon, there's a pumper, and when you go to New Jersey, there's always a gas station attendant. I got a job once. I was telling you this morning at the Vince Lombardi, and it was raining out, Dominic, and I got the shift from 4 to 12, and I would get the shift,

and they would tell me to drop every time. I would always get jobs at gas stations that were close to the bridge or the tunnel, so they would be busy. and I would come up with like two, three thousand dollars, and I have a friend pick me up on the corner, and that was the only time ever I ever got caught. I almost got caught was at Vince Lombardi

because the guy chased me, but then I lost him because I got on the bus. There's no easy way to get out of that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, I got on the bus, and then he called the cops, and the bus took off, and I'm fucking sweating bullets.

I get the Port Authority. I'm thinking the cops are going to be there. There wasn't one cop there. I got away with it. But this, yeah, so our pads could have crossed that one time or another. How long were you a cop for, Dominic? Close to 30 years. I started at the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office,

and then I wanted to see what the government was about, and I looked, and I really liked ATF, alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Street agency, you know, and that fits my type of mold, sort of. I wanted to see really what the difference is. And, hey, the truth, the difference between the state and federal is more bullshit on the federal level, but you have more leadway. There's always more bureaucracy and more paperwork when you're dealing with the feds. They're fucking Gentiles. You got to do a paperwork before you shoot somebody.

Yeah. Somebody pulls a gun. They shoot at you. You shoot them back. You get them in the leg. You got 19 pages. You got to write a fucking encyclopedia while you shot them. What color the sun was?

It's ridiculous. I know a lot of paperwork. They talk about Paper Reduction Act and all this. It's a bunch of bullshit. Well, Dominic, I was watching something when you were speaking about the process that you would go through as an undercover just going from the different agencies and like just to get like the approval to do. And like to me it seemed like, I don't know, someone would just give you an assignment. Like it seemed like you were really right. Like you were going and dealing with all this bureaucracy yourself as like almost like a solo practice.

It was weird. It was like you almost weren't being governed at all. No, it's true. Well, with this particular case of Richard Gwkiewski, you know, I just got done finishing the case, be honest, which I infiltrated all five families in New York. And we took down, I don't know, around 68 people and a lot of made guys. And then there was a contract out on me, and they wanted to send me somewhere else. But ironically, through some of the processes, I was fortunate enough to stay in this area,

and I chose Jersey. I said, that's where I was born and raised, and that's where I want to go. And they thought it was crazy. But that's what they gave me, and that's my career. And I was fortunate enough to work in New York, New Jersey area. I mean, I've been all over, you know, doing. undercover St. Croix, Puerto Rico, Miami, Denver, Washington, just a bunch of places. I almost worked for all different agencies, getting things on consignment, which was

unheard of, and, you know, built a reputation. I was fortunate enough. I really learned a lot from one of my partners, Alex Deachery, born in Brooklyn, New York, and we're very close to this date. He's lucky. alive. He was shot five times in Miami in a deal and with a 3.57. And the other agent was shot in the head and died. And he was fortunate enough to live. We're still in communication and learned a lot. Learned a lot. Learned what works. Wanted to come on strong. When to back off and, you know, you get that gut feeling, you know, after so many years in the streets. So I was fortunate enough. I spent about over 15 years in the streets

you know really I made mistakes as a neo fight but down the road and I had an individual that went on the witness protection program, sat me down we hit it off and I worked with him

for quite some time a long time matter of fact so you had an acting coach you had an acting coach really made my bones that you had an acting coach I had an acting coach The only thing with that is

Once you made the introduction I don't believe You know a source Continuing to work I get him out of the picture And then I work up the alphabet And I feel that After my experience and everything

And I'm not bragging or anything like that That you know I was good enough to Have a career They used to say When is that rope going to be tightened up on you But I was really fortunate enough that nothing had happened.

And to this day, even with the wise guys, I mean, you know, I mean, we might have broke bread here and there, but that was basically it. They respected me and I respected them. And, you know, one hand washes the other, and that's the way it is. How long were you a patrol, how old were you a patrolman or whatever

before you wanted to undercover? Say the truth, I got out of college. I went to a University of Nebraska, Omaha. Oh, shit. Don't ask me why. I got in trouble there, and I think it was good that I got out there, and, you know, got a scholarship. I was a little All-American out there,

and I was the Southeast District Heavyweight Golden Gloves champion out there. I did a lot of shit. Believe me, my path took me on some crazy ventures, but I weren't up in law enforcement. And I wanted to be a physette teacher. I wanted to work with kids. But, you know, I had that fork in the road. And I took the one towards criminology.

I graduated in that and started my career there. And how long did you jump into undercover right away? Was it two years? They put me, when I started in the prosecutor's office, 1970, they threw me in narcotics right away. That was my, went right into narcotics. I worked on products, learning, you know, the ropes here and there. And then, you know, worked homicides, vice, etc., all that stuff. And after about five years, I really wanted to see the difference.

I wanted a bigger venue. And that's when I wanted to build alcohol tobacco firearms. And from there, the training that I've learned and working with really the criminal enterprise, I believe, listen, you know, my experience is, as far as I'm concerned, you know, I did what I had to do. I'm not saying I'm the best in the world. A lot of people make mistakes out there. But I was fortunate enough to survive and did many, many different undercover operations with made guys. You make them fucking mistake in the streets you die.

You can make all this mistakes you want at the academy. You get a second chance in the street there's no second chance. What sort of special, like, is there any sort of special training that undercovers get, or are they throwing you out? Like, what do you do to prepare to be a different person? It's not that you're, let's back up a little bit. A lot of people think, you know, undercover, you look on the TV, you know, and, you know, it's really cool, you know, I'm doing my thing. But the bottom line is there, you know, when you're in the academy, you start learning. the ropes a little bit.

The only way you're going to make your bones is in the streets working with bad guys. You're not going to really learn in the academy. I was taken under a wing by a fellow by the name Alex Theatry. He took me as a seasoned agent. He was my partner for many, many years. And to this day, we're still

very close friends. And I also learned a tremendous amount when I was OCCB from New York City came in and they were looking for an Italian guy that had some experience

we were going to infiltrate the mob all five families all five boroughs Can I interrupt you for one second? I just I'm sorry I just want I just wanted I want to know

like do you start off with like smaller like the model of all five families that's a lot of experience Yeah, but you start off slow. My first, the first, I don't want to bring up names, but I went to Queens. I'm dealing with some heavy, the first time after we sat down with New York City, OCCB, and ATF, we were in the office in downtown Manhattan around 5 o'clock, and we talked for about two hours with the source, who was going on the witness protection program.

He said, hey, listen, this is my guy. This is the guy I want to work with, meaning me. So what I did was we went out that night, and I met a made guy in Queens, and I rented a sort of shotgun that he thought I was going to take off some type of robbery at a place where we were going to rob some humbles. And it just snowballed and terms and terms. terminology and I was given information way back when say, you know, they don't say he's a wise guy.

They said he's a good fella. That term was coined by my buddy who went on a witness protection program and what comes out several years later, but the movie Goodfellers. And what you are is really a good fella. You know, they use the term wise guy, but it's a good fella. you know meaning hey he's he's he's one of us he's part of the family so there's so much involved with undercover when i give talks regarding undercover operations there's a lot of people that would like to do it that aren't made for it and there's a lot of things that i can do that other agents

and police officers are very good at so you know my my niche was the undercover operations and the undercover order. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood. I was a kid. I was driving the milk truck to make extra money before I went to high school. I was 14 years old. I'm over there delivering milk before school and then I found, it was finding money wrapped in paper and I came back to the truck and I said to the driver. I said, what is this? And he said, hey, those are numbers. I said, what do you mean numbers? He says, people play, you know, a quarter of a, a bar, box straight, you know, and collect the money, you get into

the bookie, and if they hit on a total mutual handle from the Daily News, they make a score. He says, you're interested? And I said, yeah. So, not only was I making $7 a week delivered a note, I was making an extra $7 picking up the numbers. So I was making

$14 a week. I was loaded. And I was starting to learn the information and some of the guys I grew up with in certain neighborhood there, Hey, a lot of guys went to jail, you know, for robberies, armed robberies. And, you know, I mean, we knew one another. And the bottom line is they knew what I did later on and respected me.

And I respected them. If they needed something, they'd come and see me. If I needed something, I'd get the information. And one hand was there. You only learn that, really, if you're from the neighborhood and understand how the Italians work. You know, when you go and you sign a contract, they don't want a piece of paper. The handshake.

The handshake. That's it. That's all you need. That's the bond. That's the bond is the handshake. You avoid that, you're fucked. Dominic, what really got me and Lee going was when I lived in Boulder, when I got out of prison, I worked at a car wash.

I was in the halfway house, and I was very intrigued with the political system, how I always was. I mean, you know, you ever hear of an attorney called Samuel DeLuca? Yep. Out of Jersey City. Bad motherfucker. That was my mom's and my stepdad's attorney. So Cubans always played no oblo.

Whenever you arrest a Cuban, he don't know nothing. I don't oblo. I don't blow. So they even play it to the attorney that they don't oblo. So I would have to go to Jersey City and sit there with my mom. You know, this is when she was big in the numbers. And remember, in Jersey, numbers are a felony. In New York, they're a misdemeanor.

What a fucking scam. You know, so you should be shot and hung if you do numbers in New York. Oh, you got to do is pay $4 and take all the numbers you want in fucking New York City. You got arrested in Jersey. But I was always very intrigued with it. Always with the political system. You know, if I wouldn't have gotten through a problem, I would have had.

I would have gone through. I was at the University of Colorado. I'm like you. I was in Boulder. I was at your fucking nemesis growing up. How fucked up is that? I didn't even want to tell you I was so embarrassed. So I went, you talked about going to bold and Denver.

What I was doing undercover, I flew to Denver. I met a guy over, talked over the telephone. I flew there. It was some type of bikers, okay? And we started negotiating for silences. And I bought a couple of silences while I was down in Denver. And then they delivered me 200 more silences up at Penn Station. the North and I got arrested

they got taken down there's so much stuff working on Cherry Street with that's the movie Frank Sinatra played the detective I was buying the set I got tons of questions for you here I mean I want to know what

there was an undercover cop what happened was they would come into the car wash and they would say Boulder County Sheriff's Office so after a while I figured out that these everybody all the other marked cars came in but these unmarked cars were like cutlasses and these fucking these these race cars and I would and I started putting two and two together these the undercover cops so I became friends with one guy and he didn't know my

situation you know he didn't know I was on probation the half halfway house but we became tight I also became tight with the DA there that's how I got out of my jam I he said to have my attorney send them a motion and then he would get me out of the jam but this guy was telling me that he wouldn't work cases in Boulder or Denver that they would send him to ask Aspen and Snowmass, and the cops from Aspen and Snowmass would come to Boulder. Why were you in your backyard? You got balls of fucking steel. I don't know about that, but I tell you one thing.

I learned a lot. Say, listen, you get a feel with somebody. You know, okay, we really haven't met, but we talk. We sort of hit it off right here. And, you know, you get that camaraderie. Okay, you're a Jersey boy. I'm a Jersey guy. You know, you're involved with some of the information

that I was involved with growing up as a kid. I mean, we got that bond there. Yeah, no, it's there already. You know, the same people we know. So there's a lot of involved here. I mean, there's a lot of respect. You know, these big, I mean, when I was driving, I had brand new Lincoln's.

I mean, you know, I mean, the Mark Four. I mean, I used to call the car the shark. Man, I'd be bouncing in that thing, you know. but I did so many different operations I would get bearer bonds on consignment $500 denominations on consignment guys in the Bronx heavy made guys giving me heroin

you know I was there there was a guy in Brooklyn okay it was called the Villa Aegea I never forgot it The Villa Aegean in Brooklyn and a guy by the name Mickey Boy Paradisia ran it. He saw me hijacked loads of untaxed cigarettes. And I won a part about that. They killed him, right?

Mickey Boy Paradecia not killed, right? Yeah. He tried to shoot somebody. This guy, to make a point, he was giving loaned money out as a Shylock. There was an 80-year-old man. This is the story they told me, 80-year-old man, who was late on the payment. He went outside with the old man.

He yelled to the neighborhood to look. Everybody's looking. And what happened? He took a settling torch and burned him and torn. He says, tomorrow you come with the rest of the money to make a payment. You're never late with me.

He didn't care anything because business is business. That's the way it is, especially with these wise guys. You know, they had to break bread and stuff. But don't give me that fucking bullshit with power, buddy. Go fucking way.

You know? Because some other Mama Luke will come around and fucking blow your brains out. So you got to know what the hell you're doing. I take nothing for granted. Nobody for granted when I'm in the street. I'm always business, always. You know, I don't want you to go mad. I don't need this.

I don't need to go over here. You know, help yourself with all these ladies. I don't need that shit, you know? So you've got to really know what the hell you're doing. Otherwise, you're fucked up. Now, at what point, how many years were you an undercover cop when you got the assignment of your life. Well, hold on. Before this question, I read the book and they were saying that you did something,

you busted one of Sinatra's guys. I know that this protocol, if you could tell us the story, it would make our dick hard. If you can't, that's flying through. You know, I still love you either way. Well, I got involved. I was working some of the families in New York. And what happened when does I meet this guy who's selling me a lot of guns? He's interested in selling guns. But he was a Jersey guy who was working on the set as a makeup artist. He came, yeah,

yeah, I meet him. We have some coffee under the old before they took it down. And in New York and on the west side. So I meet him and

he sells me some guns on the set. Right on the set where they're doing on Cherry Street. And crazy man, I got, I think that I may still have

blown up pictures of this where we're still on the set where he's selling me guns and all this. And he must have sold me a total of, I don't know, during the operation, maybe 50, 60 guns.

And the last time he brings, it would you believe he brings his, I think he had a young kid, he brings on one of the one of the buys. And I told him the same, Give me favor.

Don't ever bring a boy here like that, you know, when we're doing business like this. She's too young. No, you know, these guys, all they see is green, you know, they don't think. But we did what we had to do. I bought the guns, and then later on we took him down, and then he cooperated, you know. See, a lot of times when people go down, I also get arrested, whether I use the name of Dominic Mucci, Chief Dominic Michael Paul Benzano, whatever. So, you know, there's different avenues to maneuver here.

So do the people who you're targeting not know that you're an undercover until maybe they see you in court on the stand? Like, if you get arrested, so when... I don't go to court. I don't go to court. out of my career, I mean, I testified, I had to testify, okay, what had to happen later on during these cases. They got more publicity. They started a current affair.

I mean, with this particular case, Kukinsky, I was on everything from, you name it, to Mary Hart. I forgot what the program was with her, Mary Lard and, you know, I couldn't hide, couldn't hide anymore. I mean, this case, it happened to be one of my last cases, and it's the way it went. I mean, I did a lot of things, but you really have to know who you are, you know. I don't play somebody. I am who I am. Look, my name is Dominic Polifold. I use the name Dominic Michael Provenzano.

I met Mr. Porvinzano who headed the unions growing up. Tony Pro. Tony Pro. That's right. Tony Pro. And I saw it and I figured, you know what, I'm going to use my name as Dominic Porvinzano. I got the ID, my rash, everything.

thing, was for Venzano. And my car has come back, you know, and I lived in a high rise in Fort Lee, behind where Palisades Amusement Park used to be. You know, there's like 20,000 units. Oh, right down. Jackie Gleason used to live in those buildings, didn't they? Remember, what I had, you know,

if they want to check me out, what happened is they had red flags on doing the undercover operation because New York City took me in and took most shots of me. you know, for different crimes and stuff and put me in the system. So I had a record and photographs and stuff like that. And, but when things happened and when there were arrests,

they pled out. I mean, they just pled out. So you know? I went to trial. Yeah, I went to trial on several major cases, but, you know, it didn't affect me. I was fortunate. Okay, so my mom, the last bus she took was 76 to 75.

It was for numbers, but it was numbers with a little bit of conspiracy to drug. And what happened was a guy from Patterson called the bar number. There was a phone number upstairs that was separate from the bar. They had the phone bar. The number tapped. The guy from Patterson called. His street name was Boniawa, bread and butter. bread and water because he was like a Puerto Rican torture chamber or something this fucking guy.

So he, uh, after the while, they arrested my mother. They came to the house. We knew the cops were coming to the house, so the house was clean. I got in the call 15 minutes before they showed up, tell your mom to clean the house, and they just hung up the phone. And I told my mom in Spanish, clean the house. I don't know what that was, and she did. And there was nothing in the house anyway, just a couple of whatever.

But what we found out later on through Sam DeLuca, who was. was a fucking savage was even they were hiding the the informant's name we found out the guy's name I mean we found out the fucking guy's name so yeah my question is like we found out from our attorney from the Luca the Luca would spoke around give him a week and it was funny how so me and you I'm selling you two kilos a blow you get arrested we both get handcuffed together do they put us in the same jail do I see you anymore or what happens dee what happens is i give you give you exactly scenario that went down i'm dealing with a guy from jersey and this goes down

in premise new jersey and the age this guy who offers me silences i meet him i buy i buy three silences he calls he says how'd you like them i said really nice really quiet he goes uh How many can you handle? I say, listen, I said, you know, maybe a couple more, but that's about it. He says, can you handle another three or four? I buy another three. Okay, I let it go. He calls me almost every week.

Can you handle 50? Can you handle 100? What the fuck am I going to do with 100? I said, I can't handle all that. God's on the truth. Gets me in November, December, he calls. He says, I want to know how many you can handle.

I said, you know what? I'm going to reach out. I said, how many can you do? God's on his judge. He goes, 3,000. I said, you can do 3,000? He says, that's right. I said, and they're going to be nice.

22 high standard caliber silence is very quiet. No matter of fact, your serial number like you sold me. He says, that's right. I said, okay. I said, I can't promise you this, but I can't handle that. I got to reach out to someone. he says get back to me I make some phone calls

some shit's going through my head I said I got the perfect scam IRA I get a female agent Irish March March that's a name gonna play March that's right Marge that's my girl

Go ahead brother you got it I don't fuck around she plays the IRA I call him back I say listen I got a woman I said I'm dealing with okay They'll take them overseas, but you work with her. I'll be the introduction and stuff, but, you know, I said, what do you want for the $3,000?

She's a million dollars cash. I said, oh, I got to talk to her. She goes, fine. I get back to him. Let's do the deal. We do the delivery, Pearl Harbor Day. It was December 7th, I think. Impromis at a diner by bust.

We got the planes out, following the truck. you know, the plane is the fox and the rabbit is the truck, the bad guy and we follow him, sure enough, he comes out of the mountains up there and meets me at the diner with the woman. She's got in that Tashay case. He pulls up, he comes into the diner, he says, okay, he says, what do you got?

I said, look, you talk to her. She's talked to him, he says, I got the million dollars. I want, I want Don to see the silences. gives me the keys. I go to the truck. I open up. There's like 60 boxes. I open boxes. I think there was 20 or 50 silences in each box in some type of oils. No manufacturer or serial number. They were beautiful. 3,000 of them. I come back out. I close it. I give the key back to him. I said, give them the money. as they give them the money she gets up and all of a sudden all hell breaks since they arrest me and him

they bring us back to Pramus Police Department and threw us in the joint all of a sudden we're in there a couple hours next to each other he's in a separate cell across from me what happened was get a knock

I hear talk he hears talk the fuck's going on DEA comes in this guy named Provenzano? Yeah. We've got a warrant for him to distribute major kilos of cocaine. They take me, they locked me up,

and take me to the federal system, and never to be seen again. He pled out. You get my drift? Yeah, no, it's a beautiful thing. That's what, I didn't know if you saw him again because I know, even in the Kluklinsky case, when he got arrested,

you really wanted to be down there to put the cuffs on. And I understand, after all, all the time you had put in, but they're like, what? You know, why go down there? The thing about this book that intrigued me the most that I was telling Lee before you called, I know your time is short is, you're fucking in there with Klu Klinsky.

You're going down to the store in Patterson, you've got all these people in your corner, but here's the weird thing. That at one of your last meetings, they call you in, you know, per the book, and they rib you a little bit, and they doubt you, like these fucking guys that sit on a desk all fucking day,

are doubting you on your job. And then they go, well, maybe we'll bring somebody else in Domb. Do you know how many times I was in the 80s? I was around drug dealers that we would be talking like Spanish kids. They were nickel and dime guys selling fucking eight balls and quarter ounces. And one day, some clown would just pop up with a friend and go, I want two pounds of blow. And they would come to me and go, what are you thinking?

And I go, run like hell and change your number. So the guy that you were selling it to shows up. one day with another white dude and all of a sudden from buying three quarter grams and eight balls he wants to buy a pound of blow and you're looking to come to me are you fucking retarded you know they blow you know like I totally for every hundred million pound or every 200 silence a deal there is there's four of them that the feds dropped the ball on because they overthink the fucking thing right what I mean Yeah, yeah.

Look, this Kukaliki thing, like he was, this started when I left the prosecutor's office, and for several years I'm in the streets in New York, I just finished up the, a while ago, you know, arresting major players and the five families and everything. So in 1980s, I get a call to come to the prosecutor's office, and the state and the prosecutor's office, state police, and we sit down

and they give me a bunch of information about this guy Richard Kukinsky, lives in Dumont, New Jersey. And they mentioned, you know, this guy's a stone killer. You know, and that he's got a family,

but he uses poisons. He says, but he's killing people. We've got to circumstantial evidence, a lot of cracks in it, we need direct evidence from him. So you're asking me to meet a guy and he's going to tell me how he murdered five people. You come to me and ask me how I murdered people, I tell you to go fuck yourself. Exactly.

You understand? Now, let's just back up. Don't ask me why I always had this fucking knack for whatever reason it is, it is. I can't explain it. I write up the report. I sent at the headquarters, and they were kind of concerned because saying, what the hell is going on?

This is, you know, we're dealing with poisons here. If it gets into your epidermis, you know, there's no antidotes right away. You kiss your ass goodbye. He said, you sure you want to do this? I said, I want to do this. I had to get a declination from Washington and from the U.S. Attorney's Office in New Jersey

that anything that I do on this task force will not go federal. Everything is going to be turned over the state, and they want Richard Kukwinski for five murders. And they wanted me, once I did need him to extract information how we murdered certain individuals. And what happened is I started hanging out at the store in Patterson, New Jersey. All these wise guys, man, were hanging out there. It was unbelievable, just like good fellas, man. I mean, I thought they were doing the movie. You know, they could have did the movie there.

It was unbelievable. All these guys would come in. The cops would come by, I know, on a Sunday I'd see them, and they just hijacked a whole load of Chenzano umbrellas. And they were throwing them into the police cars, and they were just taken off. It was a big line. And a lot of these guys would come into the store

looking for different avenues and schemes, from jewelry, heist, to hijacking loads. It was amazing, the networks that they had. and it took me over a year. I knew information would get out there because what had happened is Richard Kukinsky was murdering certain people that he had a little connection, a little cell of mob guys in Jersey that he wasn't happy with, and he was killing him.

And the guy wanted part about it, he kills a guy by the name of Mr. Softie who was supplying him with his sienna. Pure cyanide, I should say, pure cyanide. And Kukinsky murders this guy. Now, I'm hanging out at the store for close to, I don't know, 18 months approximately. And phone rings one day, and the guy picks it up and says, Sunny, it's for you. The big guy wants to meet you. And that's what they refer to him as the big guy.

and wants to meet you at the Dunkin' Donuts to talk some business. And we were waiting for that because I was doing a lot of illegal business with these guys, and they were trusting me at the store, but nothing went down. One day I'd come into the store, and I was on my way to New York. I pulled in my link, and I get out when an attach case, and they're going, man, what status is for people in the city? And they were going, come on, come on, what is it? And this was all prior planned.

I knew they would ask what's in that attache case. So I got approval from Washington to go in with props, but they were certified props. I walked in and they said, come on, let's take a look. I go in the back room, I open up the attache case, and I got 10 blocks of plastic stolen explosives from the military, and I got 10 high standard 22-caliber silences.

And they're going, and we can use this stuff. It's a man, this is for people in the city. And they knew I had all these connections. And word was getting out that I can get anything. And it got back to the big guy, which is known as Kukinsky. And when that phone call came in, I went to the Dunkin' Donuts and I meet him for the first time after about 18 months. And I had a lot of information on him. And when he got out of that Camaro, that's, man, he was like the Jolly Green Giant.

And he just grew, and I mean grew. He's about 6'4 to 70, big, massive guy with these orange-tinged glasses. And he got out of that car, I said, holy fuck. I got out of my Lincoln. I rode to shake his hand, and he had some mitts on him, believe me. And I thought he was looking to take my soul out of my body from those glasses when he was looking at me. And I'm saying to myself, you know, just chill. I said, this motherfucker ain't getting my soul.

That's for sure. And I can just feel him, just looking. We go inside the Dunkin' Donuts. Now, this is God's on his suit, strike me dead. We sit down. We have coffee. We're talking generalities. And he goes, can you get Coke?

I said, I don't do Coke. He says, no. He says, can you get Coke? And I said, well, I said, I can get it. He says, what do you get a kilo for? I said, about 32. thousand. This is well I can get it for 28. I said well you better off for your

source. So he turns to me now this is one of our first conversation she goes but I don't know if I can trust the guy so I look at him and I said you're a fucking dummy and he must have stared at me. I'm telling me for five seconds like I said

he was trying to burn my soul or take it out of me or whatever and look and I'm staring at him. You don't you don't tell somebody to go fuck themselves but I've been around too long I got the experience

I don't want to come on and want to back off if you were to back off he would have ate you to fuck up alive and you know that you know that you don't trust the guy I said you're a fucking dummy

I don't deal with anybody I don't trust and he's after about five to ten seconds he goes you're right so help me God when he said that I said I got this motherfucker

I felt that comfortable on that first conversation Then he turns around, he says, I hear you got connections. And I said, yeah, he doesn't say, can you get cyanide? He says, can you get pure cyanide? Because you've got to know how to get the connections for pure cyanide. You're not going to the hardware store to get rap poison. You're going, you need the good quality, and it smells like almonds.

And you've got to have a lab person to make this. And he happened to kill his Mr. Softie there, and who was his connection for the pure cyanide. And that started the ball rolling. And I said to him, he says, I need it. He says, I got to take care of some rats. I said, well, I'll tell you, one hand washes the other. You got to show good faith to me.

He goes, what's that? I said, I want some steel. He goes, steel? I said, yeah, nice and quiet. He goes, you want a nice hit kid. I said, that's right. I said, nice and quiet. I said, but you got a show good faith to me.

And he says, okay, we walk out, we shake hands, and he gives me this telephone number that I've had during the investigation that they had, that every player that he gave wound up dead later on. So I said, man, this is working out perfectly. Now, this was a chance to meet. So he leads I ride around I go to a pay telephone I dropped the dime

I call I said listen I just met Kukkinski this was like about 1130 now 12 o'clock when I tell you all hellbrokers at 3 o'clock they said there's a big meeting you know all the suits you're going to be there all I'm telling me it was unbelievable

every from the attorney general know, your neighbor was there. And this was going to be one of our first meetings. And when I went there, was sitting in with everybody who's just coming in, and I haven't met this guy, he was

a major. And I'm not going to get in with the palm or whatever. So he grabs me, just come over here. I want to talk to you. He brings me in the room. Now, a lot of different heads of agencies are coming in now. And Deputy Attorney General Carol, who I worked with

prior, I did a lot of undercover operations for them with the Attorney General's office and the Essex County Prosecutors, so they knew me. So prior to that, I walked in with this superior and he goes, sit down, kid, sits me down and he says, this is what you're going to do. You're bowing out of this investigation. You're introducing one of my guys. I said, what? he says do you hear what I'm saying now they're very you know

what's the word I'm looking for he's very white regiment right right right right right and I said I'm gonna find me then he says you're bowing out

and you're introducing him one of my guys said it don't work like that you don't work 18 months you meet a guy finally you got a reputation and all of a sudden you introduce a guy and you bow out I said don't work He says, you're going to do that.

And I said, go fuck yourself. And I got up and I walked out. He's red as a beat. Walk out and there's the deputy attorney general Bobby Campbell. What's going on? And I told him, he goes, what the, what? He goes, let's keep a clear head here. So this other suit goes around and they all sit at the table.

They said, right, Don, tell us what happened. I told him, I, you know, I met Kukkinski. gave me his number, told me he needed pure cyanide. I said, I couldn't believe he needed that term. First time we met. So he says, was it taped? And it wasn't taped the first time. So I said, listen, while we're talking, my pager goes off, Skokunsky.

So they asked, what's that? And I said, this Kukunsky. So this major goes, get a tape. We're going to be quiet. No, we're not taking. We're not taping. I'm not taping. Now, there's a big argument that's going on.

If anybody fucking else dies, you're going to be responsible. I said, fuck you. I said, five people are dead under your ring. I said, so don't give me this shit. I said, everybody this guy works for, when he says jump, you jump. I'm talking about Ku Klinsky. And they'll tell you when it comes down. I said, they ain't happening with me.

I said, he's got something that I have that he needs. and he's got to show good faith to me. And there was a lot of shit going on, a lot of discussions. And they find, finally the AG's office, the attorney general that was going to prosecute him for the five murders and says,

we're going to die down. And you could heard of pin dropping. The page he gives up. Any fucking body else dies, you're responsible. You know, we're going back on this. Go fuck yourself.

You know, I don't work for them. I work for the government, you know? And so they calmed everything down and they formulated, this task force where they wanted me now to start meeting with Kukkinski and gather information how we murdered people. And Richie, you know, this guy was a mass murderer. I mean, this guy loved to kill. I mean, he loved it. Even the way he talked, he would carve a niche for himself,

you know. This is me. You know, he's a cold-blooded son of a bitch. I can feel it. He just loved that. When he talked about murder, if you can see in his eyes, it was like he's staring and getting a hide. It was unbelievable. And then he's telling me how he murdered people. But there was a lot of information that I gathered. You know, one, he said, you know, I made the cops look like assholes.

I said, what are you talking about? He says, well, he says, I had a guy in a prison for two years. So what? You see, I had a guy for two years. He says, and I put him in baggies, and I buried him in the prison. And after two years, I dumped him. And I think it was out in West Milford area, New Jersey. And some jog or something found the body, called the police.

And the individual, um, Maske, his name was Lewis Maskeye that was murdered in. and kept in a freezer, did not be composed. He had the same clothes he had on that he disappeared two years ago. It was amazing. Did not be composed. So when they took him back to do the autopsy,

this is like in August and September, and as they started doing it, they found these ice crystals like in the body, you know, and since something's wrong there. Something's definitely wrong. Did further information. They found out that this, guy was Louis Mazge who met Kukki years ago that disappeared.

Now Kukki told me how he murdered him and how he kept him in a freezing, how he tried to make the cops look like ass. He says, where there's, uh, where there's smoke, there's fire. He says, but they can never find the fire because he says, I'm too good at what I do. He says, let me tell you something. Just so you know. He says, I should do a commercial. So what do you mean a commercial?

This is his sense of you. He says, I buried the guy in plastic garbage bags. You know what kind I used? I use Glad. He says, now people should go out and buy Glad. He says they last a long time. I mean, and he would smile, you know what I'm saying?

And I'm saying to myself, holy shit. This is the devil. This is definitely the devil, you know? So I'm getting all this information on this guy. And he's feeling comfortable telling me how he's murdering people. You know, how he murdered the people with him. with the cyanide, how we put it on their hamburgers. And, you know, and amazing, just amazing.

You know, I buy the silences from him. He has shown the fate. He's feeling comfortable. And I don't know if you remember this, but during that time, during I'm doing this undercover operation, there was cyanides there with Cyanol. You remember that? Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the book it says Lipton, but I thought in 82, too. Somebody did something with Tylenol. Right. So what I happened to said to him is this is ironic. And this is true. There were a cyanide scared. They were finding cyanide. Somebody was injecting into the Tylenol capsules.

They were breaking the seal and doing that. So I said, Tomé, listen, I've got to be careful one idea of doing this. I said, you know, I said, I had the cyanide for you. I said, but I'm not keeping that with me. you're going to think that I'm doing the one that's, you know, been doing the capsules in Jersey. And he bought it, bought it, gave me time to back off a little bit to gather more information. But this guy was a cold, calculated son of a bitch and murder. The only thing is, you don't fuck with his family.

He had a family he loved. But, you know, one good deed doesn't deserve another with this guy. And I knew down the road that I was dealing with an animal. And, you know, you got to keep your sense, who the fuck you are. And he used to hang around with a guy by the name of Roy de Mayo in the Gemini lounge in Brooklyn, New York. And that's where they used to chop up the bodies. And Roy de Mayo was a maid guy in New York. and

I believe Jerry Capricci wrote about him in his book Their Murder Machine or something like that And the Mayo was going to be arrested alone For committing 64 homicides by himself I mean they had some group gathering here It was unbelievable The Kaczynski really killed the Mayo

I thought it was I don't think so I don't buy that I think it was the captain from the Gambinos that shot him. Yeah. Because he was very comfortable. They know who murdered the mayor, and it was not Kukklinz. It was not Kukklinsky.

Because then they asked him why the chandelier was on the top and shit. From the time you met him to the time he got arrested, how long was that process? As crazy as it sounds, I made him September. So September, October, November, December. Four months. I got all the information that I needed on tape from the murders and for all the circumstantial evidence that they had. I filled the cracks with documented direct evidence from his mouth how he murdered these individuals. You mentioned how he had been killing a lot of people who he worked with, and I heard something that you said you had a gun in a special pocket on you at all times.

what was the I was just going to ask what the line was for you I had a 380 caliber pistol in my left pocket I'm right-handed but I kept I talk with my right hand you know at times but I had the gun pointed at him and during this investigation I said he was known as putting cyanide in the spray

and spraying it into people and on tape there are several conversations with him trying it out in New York, where he gave them a boost, he called it, and watched the guy, looks like he died of a heart attack, walking in the street. He told me a couple of times he went,

and that he went to dinner with somebody, and he put a boost in the food. As the guy went to the bath and come back, he mixed the cyanide in it, and all of a sudden the guy drops into the pool. Everybody's screaming. He thought that I had a talk. He died of a heart attack.

He gets up, visually, and walks away. this was unheard of. I mean, because I told him, started this investigation and started this conversation between Kikorski and me was I say, which, nothing. This is at the Vislimbody service station where we had many taped conversations. I said, I don't understand you.

I said, I kill people with guns. He says, listen, my friend. You can do it that way. but my way is nice and clean. Nobody looks for it. He says, you give him a booster. Now, when he mentions boost, it's pure sign of it. He says, it makes him look like the only bad of a heart attack.

He says, or if your client wants a statement made, I can make a message. I can cut his tongue out, stick it up his ass, put a canary in the guy's mouth. There's a lot of ways to do this. But I like my nice and clean. He says, no mess.

He says a couple of times I got the bodies. He said, we have a mortar set in. So I'd use a chain sort of cut the tendon so I can get him in the barrel, the dump. And that's the way he was. I mean, you know, he was unbelievable. He was, you know, a school of hard knocks. Had a rough time growing up, but we all did. You know, I mean, that's the way it was back home in Jersey, you know,

especially in certain areas you lived in. You know, look, I mean, there's been so many things written about him and everything. I mean, one of the things he mentioned that he mentioned he had to do a contract hit, he went to see somebody. I think it was in a movie that was out where he goes to the player, he meets him, and the guy goes, Richie, Richie, please, please. don't murder me. God, please. He says, I'll tell you what, he says at 6 o'clock.

He said, 6.30, if Jesus Christ comes down, you're a free man. 6.31 bang, you said. I guess Jesus Christ didn't come down. Like you said in the beginning, it's real lucky that our paths didn't cross. Because all these places, I used to go to Liberty Hotel, York Motel, 70th, and Newkirk,

my friend Darren Rago, God bless his soul. lived, I walked past that fucking garage 20,000 times. You know, the DePaul diner on Route 3, are you fucking crazy? By the Clifton, remember when the Clifton driving was out there and we were kids?

Yeah. That diner on Bergen Boulevard, the Skyview Hotel. I stayed there. You lived down the block from one of my all-time favorite restaurants when you had that apartment in Fort Lee called Picolissimo. You know, You know, the funny thing at, I think it was the York Motel.

That's where he had the guy chopped up. The spy night on the hamburger and then watch the victim die in the bed. And then he strangles him with the cord after they're laughing because he says to me, I had the fucking guy. He says, and I told the players went more upstairs. When the hamburgers come in, don't eat the ones with the pickles. Don't eat the ones with the pickles. So he gives the ones with the pickles to one of the people he killed.

in the York motel with cyanide. He goes, the guy had a constitutional fucking moon quote from him. He goes, Don. He says, I'm sitting there. He's eating the whole hamburger. I'm watching. I'm watching. He says, finally the fucking guy dies. He rolls over. He says, he

almost ate the whole hamburger. You know, and tying him into the circumstantial evidence and getting the direct evidence from Concordy was unbelievable. How we tie every single one in.

And every night, when I used to meet with Kukinsky, I would drop off the tape to Paul Smith, one of the investigators. And then I'd meet them later on at the plant. We had Johnny Walker black

scotch with Kukovsky's picture on it. And during this whole investigation, we must have went through 20 bottles, you know, going over, you know, information that we needed this. I needed dad, I needed this for this particular case. After a while, I told, listen, I got no fucking room upstairs, man, I need a break here.

You know, I mean, it was constantly ongoing. And I didn't really live far from him, you know, when I was doing this investigation. I lived in one town, which was really about maybe 10 miles from where he was in Dumont, New Jersey. I pass could have cost any place. Anytime at that fucking, at that supermarket in Cresco, you could have been anywhere. One last question for you, brother. It says it in the book, so I got to ask you, because we've had Sal Lubots on the show.

Do you know who Sal Lubots is? He's the first guy to roll on John Gotti for the heroin. Small-timer. He lives right around the corner from my office. Witness Relocation Plan, had two sons play profession. That's why he said he got into the Witness Relocation Plan because of his boys. He ended up playing pro football.

Oh. But in the book here, it says that you also had busted Vinny Gotti. That's true. So that's why I'm asking him. I met Vinny Goddy on Bath Avenue, where, as a matter of fact, in Brooklyn, I think we're, right now they're filmed John Gotti with another Jersey guy who's playing him. Travolta. John Travolta. Are they really filming that?

Are they really filming that? I met. I met the younger Godi at the bedrock bar on Bath Avenue in Brooklyn, New York. And I front him X amount of dollars. And he came back later on where he was facing, I think, six years to life, though, selling me that word. One on hand-to-hand, one-on-one. And Bath Avenue, originally where these guys would hijack loads of stuff, and swag and all that.

They take care of the neighborhood first, which is smart. Take care of the neighborhood, whatever it is, clothing, food. This way where the cops come, I don't know nothing. We know nothing. We know nothing, you know. There's so much involved, Bath Avenue, for Christ's sake of... That's Sammy the Bullsall neighborhood. That's where his office was.

I love... One of the players, I was dealing with the... Bronx and this was a maid guy which nobody fronted money I funded $10,000 I met him at the JF Kennedy Airport I funded him 10,000 dollars I'm waiting at the airport motel there at JFK he comes back within two hours he called me every 15 minutes thought I was hooked up with a made guy in Manhattan. He delivers me

three more packets of heroin. I fronted him 10. When he came back with the other two, I gave him an additional $20,000. He made $30,000 that night.

My name was gold. And no arrest. I was getting silences in Riverside in Riverside at the diner from this Greek diner. Joey Sick, he believed he murdered peanuts

in the Yonkers. I can't forget a name right now. He used to make him. He used to go by the name of Joey Sick, a big guy. There are so many players involved with all this. It was wild.

You know, you mentioned Mickey Paradisia before. Let me tell you who that is. I just remembered who that was. There was a war, between the Lucases and John Gotti. What was the guy that took over after the guy went to jail, him and Vince Amuso, Vic Amuso, and the other fucking guy? Well, that Mickey Paradisio had a problem with him and sent two guys to shoot that guy at a Chinese restaurant.

Do you remember that story? He went into the Chinese restaurant, and that's what saved his life. And when he came out, he went, yeah, he went to Gotti and said, I want Mickey. They wouldn't give him Mickey because he was a big-time heroin dealer. It was big-time, Mickey. Yeah, yeah, that's what it was. So now...

One thing, I would get a call from OCCB. Dom, you've got to meet me at the Meadowlands. I said, come on, I'm just got home. No, you got to meet me there. I want you to meet Harry to pick. Fuck. That's all right. I go meet them at a pre-designated area.

I meet Harry to pick. Harry comes in, we're at the Meadowlands race track. Harry comes, hey, this is Sonny from New York. Hey, blah, blah, blah, we start talking. He knew I was hooked up. Harry to pick went around for the mob and was a top-notch safe cracker and would open up any safe and he would get 10% of the booty inside that no other person can open up these saves.

He'd fly all over the country. And I needed to know a specific, case that he was involved with what you told me he did in Queens and he gets 10% of the money. I mean, these guys were unbelievable. Unbelievable. They had a network that was phenomenal. Phenomenal. Dominic.

I know that's not going to all over the place. I mean, nothing's really chronological here, but it is what it is right now, you know? It's funny, like you said in the beginning, it's really weird that our paths didn't meet because when I was 14, I would go over to that metal ends, that Pegas. and my friend's father and my friend's father my buddy was the head chef at the fucking Pegasus, Vinnie Lynch.

So I would go and I would walk in there, he'd have a jacket from him. I'd walk in there like Johnny Bananas when I was 15 the summer before my mother died. Jimmy, my friend Jimmy, he knew a lot of guys down there, so he would go, I'm going to bring you down there at night. So when somebody wins a trifecta,

you cash it for them and they give you a little taste. So I would go down to my Social Security card and I'd clean up, like I'd get like 10% or an extra $20, you know, I'd go home with $300. There's a fucking freshman in high school. That's a score. I made like $82,000 to track that year. I don't even know how.

And I didn't really want any money. Dominic, I love you, brother. Even the diner owners, I told you, they would go play this Babouk game. All the diner owner from New Jersey would go into Estoria Queens, and they'd play Babouk upstairs to a private game. They had bounces that made NFL players look. like midgets. Unbelievable.

Tons of money, tons of boards, anything you want, and everything. They report to one godfather this Greek guy, and he would use the name as Petro up there.

And he wanted me to blow up the Claremont Diner on Route 3 years ago. What happened was they just pipe on that years ago. My God,

the Claremont Diner. Listen, I know you got to go to dinner, man. It's been an education this week. and not only in education, I got to meet a really great guy. You're a special fucking guy, Dominic.

God. I wish we had more time to really go chronological. Oh, no, no. I'll call you next month again. We'll do this. These guys are going to love this. I mean, you're a great guy, and God bless that nothing ever bad happened to you, man. They don't make savages like you anymore.

You and your family and everything else to be safe, and I really enjoyed this. and I'm going to give you a call tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to find out exactly what's what. Yeah, Lee, you got any questions from my Uncle Dominic? Just really quick, something that we've heard about on the show, and I just want to know if you've heard about it. Have you ever heard of the Meadowlands in?

Metal, that sounds like, what is it, a small little place? That was a small little bar in North Bergen where women would stick bottles in their pussies and shit, from 79 to like 81. It was owned by North Bergen Police. North Bergen? Cops had a long fucking time ago, my friend. Yeah, long time.

Well, you know, with your Gumbas, cappuccino and coffee, that's funny, and the other guy, it's amazing, small world. I love you. I love you, brother. And I will call you this week, and I thank you for your time.

I know it's valuable. I know you have a family down there, but I will be in touch with you a lot, Dominic. Thank you very much for taking the time, brother. God bless you. Thanks a lot and I'll love to be speaking you. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed this.

Love you, Dee. Thank you. Bye-bye. What did you think of that, Lee? It's, uh, it's sound, he's so calm about it. And he's talking about it like when he was, when you guys were talking about, uh, Colorado. And he's saying, oh, I flew to Colorado once and I sold these things. He's talking about like it's a vacation, like, like, how we talk and like, oh, I got this to

eat in Colorado once. He's like, oh, I went to Colorado once. He's like, oh, I went to Colorado and sold these sandwiches. You know, it's, I've always been very interested with undercover work. How I didn't end up doing it, guys, is beyond me. How I didn't become a car. I didn't even know about this undercover work, so it was too fucking late, and I had felonies, you know.

But it's always intrigued me. This conversation was good for me because it closed the questions I had about the Iceman and just meeting this guy, just talking to him on the phone about what went, what really went down. You know, I bought the other book first, the one by Carlo, something Carlo, the Ice Man.

And like I said, it was a lot of, I felt it was a lot of rhetoric and a lot of nostalgic guy trying to build himself up. The one day based the movie off, The Ice Man, this book by Anthony Bruno,

this was the one that really brought a lot of things to life. I'm happy I picked it up. Like I said, guys, you're not going to learn Dick if you don't read a book a week or a book every two weeks. I know people are busy, man.

And some people want to go back to school, but they don't have time to. What's the better thing to do than read? And it don't cost you nothing. You go to the fucking library, you check out a fucking book, and you read it, and you bring it back, man. A lot of people fucking just at home wasting their time. I'd rather, if you're watching six hours, if you're watching six hours of TV a day, and you're on the fucking computer three hours a day, you can't win. How about an hour of any fucking book that interests you?

Just to get your mind off. At least you can have a conversation with somebody. you know about about something more because you there you can't have a conversation about tv or social media just yeah and then that's something that i haven't done since high school probably yeah no we all forget that reading is fucking fundamental when i'm having a hard time writing i go to reading i start reading my fucking asswell you know this week i gave book that i gave lee that book uh the art of war which a lot of you have sent me pictures on twitter and whatnot you know the main thing about that book is the word resistance the word resistance is a

motherfucker that I have it this morning I have it every day for something different every day you talk yourself out of doing something different if you read the book the art of war here's your homework assignment for the next two weeks the art of war whatever the fuck the war of art if this is the fucking this is your homework assignment your homework assignment is basically to catch yourself every time your resistance comes up catch yourself see how How many times a fucking day? Resistance shows his ugly face to you.

You know, oh, I want to go work out. I'm going to take a run and something fucking else happens or you don't want to do it. And there's always, you know, I have friends that Lee and I were talking about a certain friend of mine that we love to death. He does this type of work, but he puts that up first to take away from what's really going on. Like, wait a second. I didn't work on this today because I did this. That's another form of fucking resistance. It's the same fucking thing.

And it's hard because the frustrating part for me in the book is he made it, he makes it seem like it's a daily, like a daily battle. Everybody has it on a daily fucking basis. You know, everybody fucking has it on a daily basis. So just to touch on that, the art of war, the war, whatever the fuck it is, the most important thing is that it's you find yourself getting the resistance, either write how you overcome it or just work against it. I usually do now. You know, you give yourself a goal. I'm going to go to the gym three times a week.

Every day I'm going to go to the gym this week at 12. From four to five, I'm going to write fucking poetry. You know what I'm saying? I don't give a fuck what gets in your way. Nothing could get in your way of that. You know, if you come to me and go, well, I did kettlebells and said, that, that, that, that don't mean nothing. You were supposed to fucking write. That's what was supposed to be done. Nothing else. I don't give a fuck. And that's what I had to realize over the years. That's what I had to realize over the years. I thought the daytime was to go talk and play with your fucking goofy friends who got nothing going on. No, the daytime is to write and to send emails and to fucking, you know, get your day together. Like every day you have to have a

different mission. And this is what this book teaches you. I don't want to frown on that book. We'll get back to it. But the homework assignment for the war of art or the art of war, whatever the fuck it is, is that you catch your resistance and acknowledge it. That's it. Now back to this fucking book over here. It was just what really intrigued me about this. Book was what he said. Guys, from 1979 to 1985, I raised fucking hell. A lot of bad things could have come to me.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you, oh, I could have got killed. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But read these fucking places where I verified with you guys. I don't know all these places. I was doing something, except for the place in Patterson that he talks about in the book, the shack where people go, there's a story about him going in there,

Dominic, and some guy pulls him aside and go, I got a half a million and fives. That counterfeit, give him to me for 20 cents on the dollar. He's like, what am I going to do a $5 fucking bills? You know, that's a complete different world that people don't know of. And I love when people try to go into that world. When you watch TV and you see a person between 20,

and 29 get arrested for something really crazy. It was that he got himself into a world that he didn't know existed. He watched something on TV. And that's the difference. A lot of people have never realized that in life. And that's why I tell people, before you make any of those type of moves that you want to get a kilo or an ounce of blow to sell it and make money,

think about what you're doing and think about the people you'll be dealing with. You know, Lee and I have been talking a lot the last couple of weeks, how the people we deal with in our lives in the daily basis here. I'm a comedian. I'm very proud to be a comic, man. There's a lot of comics I like. There's a lot of comics I dislike,

just like you guys. There's co-workers you like, and there's co-workers I dislike. One of the main things I hate about comics are that they will take the most from you for the least of money. They will take more shit from you and try to get away with paying you the cheapest

that I've ever seen before. and what they do is comedians is they don't take care of the areas that they have to take care of. Like they'll spend money, a lot of money on a webpage, but they won't spend money on the guy that's featuring from. Like the guy that's driving them down. They try to be cute. Like, drive me down, and I won't have to save on a plane, but I'll give you a hundred for gas. Take care of that kid. Give me the extra fucking hundred.

Give them the extra fucking hundred. Take care of people. If you notice, Lee doesn't do any podcast and they're the other fucking comedians. because he learned the hard way, except for Steve Simone. He learned the hard way. That were comedians, they want to give you $10,000,

or they're always late, or there's always a fucking problem, or there's always, you know, and Lee paid me a great compliment. He goes, you know what, that's crazy? That you're my best client. Aside from the drugs and the stories and the prisons and all the craziness and the stealing,

I got to hand it to you. You come through like a fucking ace. It's almost, it's funny, but in my head if I had if you had told me this when I first started that it's not even close guys like it really just isn't even and I'm not saying that it's always

like a breeze like it's always like sunshine and happy flowers like there's we work hard and sometimes it's hard but it's not even like oh there's a close second to like just just like being on time like just quickly about

the war of art he said like you do all this stuff you do what you're supposed to do for your job you like you're most of the time you go to work on time you do all that and then you're hurting yourself personally and you all these people that I've dealt with are all self-employed essentially and you you shouldn't you should be my worst client like you in theory late yeah never showing up never paying you on time a check could bounce always a story tired no no I have treated this like a fucking soldier and because I wanted to give you the respect that you deserve, which a lot of people

never think about other people's feelings and what they're going through. Some people lived their life never considering anything else. I love when people call me and say, hey, you know, fly into New York. I had a situation this week where a family friend, a friend of a sister's sick. So I called my friend and I go go see your sister and stuff. So I want to reach out to the whole I reached out to his brother. We haven't spoken in a while. I apologize. I tell him what's going on with my life.

You know, this motherfucker hit me back. I said, listen, when I go home next time, let's, uh, let's break bread, man. Let's eat something and let's catch up and let's get this animosity beside us. I'm getting too old. You're getting too old. This problem has existed between us, this little riff. I mean, we've been friends, but we've had a riff since 1980. That's 26 years. We went from being the closest people in the world to people who wave at each other and say hello and if you don't think it bothers me after all he did for me

You're out of your fucking mind. So I hit him up We talk we go back and forth on Facebook. He says yeah, I'm gonna meet with you guess what this motherfucker says to me So let's do this let's forget the dinner. Why don't you just fly out August 11th and do my functional? for me and the mayor is gonna be there and all these people gonna be that I'm like how did it go from me going back there to the Bogota July 29th and meeting you for lunch then flying back there to do your fucking event at a at a at a thing like what justifies you asking me that and it's weird how it goes from friendship it's just all yeah like what just a do you even have a clue what goes on in my life do you don't have a

daughter do you know I have a wife do you know I do a podcast twice a week you know I'm trying to fucking lose weight so I try to focus on my workout my breathing my eating there's so many you know I'm trying to write a book you also know I'm trying to write my cereal for stand-up but my stand-up is fucking hurting so what you want me to do is get on a 13 fucking hour flight six each way plus the hour plus the hour to drive plus the fucking ubers to come to your event I wish I could just do that all the time I wish I had a helicopter which I could just people don't Don't give a fuck and if you think the people in the Midwest don't give a fuck like they're a little rude not even compared to what we deal with out here

Jalee had a podcast for a year the guy was late every week Every week There was always a story there was always four people with him They didn't they miss the whole it's like weddings I got invited to this wedding in two weeks Listen between you guys I really want to go when I talked to her you got her on the phone She has not considered me by no means or what's included in my world or what's going on and I understand it's your big day, but you never ask me about my day and what I'm doing on that day. That's why when I got married, I got married on a Wednesday before Thanksgiving because I wanted people to be in town.

I didn't want to take away from nobody. My wedding was from three to seven, dog. I got married at one, the party started at three and everybody went home at seven. I didn't make it to go. You understand me? There's people that I'm having this event in Montecito. Well, that's a two-hour drive. So you're asking me for four, and I have a child.

You know, and that's what I don't, I'm not even playing that no more with people. Like, I'm not even playing that game no more with people. Like, that, that's not going to exist. I don't, you know, I'm going to the UFC fight with Joan, the Buffalo. Guess what? I'm not staying for that fucking fight. I don't give a fucking Jesus fight.

I'm not picking up an envelope, so I'm coming home to my stuff. family the week before I'm at levity live all fucking weeks so I'm six hours away both fucking weekends you think I'm gonna sit there an extra fucking day to watch a fight you're crazy best place I've watched the fight is in my fucking living room with my feet up picking my fucking nose you know that's the best wife you know that's the best time I have is watching that type of shit at my house I don't want to go to I'm 54 years old and you're not fighting your nature being stuck in in in the city pissed off for who for what what's the purpose I get on a plane to pick up an

envelope and bring it the fuck back to my family. I don't have time to get on a plane to go to a wedding. If the wedding is there, when I'm going back to it, do the comedy, sure. I'll stop buying the afternoon and say hello and drop off a fucking envelope. I'm not an animal by no means, but, you know. But they also still have to understand what the fuck I'm doing. Absolutely. Let me do some shoutouts real quick.

Philadelphia Collins, Chris Hines, who all. is on here. Laffable. Kern Michael, John Doherty, Beware podcast, Tyler Trubbert, Dom T, and Derek Sparks.

I love you, motherfuckers. Don't forget, I'll be at Levity Live West Nyack, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday this weekend, and then 420,

Levity Live, Oxnard, right here in California, blowing this place down. All right. So that's that. That was very interesting as call, because I had never really,

we never had an undercover cop on here before, and we've never really had anybody of that after. I think we had a cop on on when I did Beauty and the Beast. Right, yeah, absolutely. But we never had a cop here before, and I wanted to really go into this. You know, he was talking about Mr. Softie. Like I said, Lee, when we did the documentary,

and we went on Charles Court, I showed you exactly in conjunction how far it was from my head. house to Mr. Fucking Softie's house. You know, this guy, Mr. Softty,

he talks about in the book, is really interesting because he had two boys and a great wife, a beautiful fucking wife. And we all played together. And the boys were great boys. I know one of them passed away,

died in the car accident, God rest his soul. But the younger one that's still alive, I think changed his name, and he contacted me about five or six months ago on Facebook. And, you know,

my normal whore adage, would have been to, I mean, I haven't talked to him since he was a child. I'm not going to lie to nobody and tell you, I keep in contact with him. But my natural horror attitude was to contact him on Facebook and have him call the podcast to talk about his fucking father, who was an animal, who they couldn't wait. I didn't have the heart in me. You know, if he listened to the podcast and he would like to call in now and tell his thoughts on his father, amen, I give him all the power in the world.

I'm not mad at him. It's just something that happened. But here's the crazy thing. I officially left Jersey in 85. And in 84, do you know what Prongay did? Or 82? Do you know what he did? He put a bomb in front of his fucking house to kill his wife and his kid.

Are you serious? Yeah. Like where? On the street? No, on the balcony, on the porch. Like, this is this fucking guy. I lived around the block from my house. Do you feel at all like, now that people think you're a long,

but like vindicated having Dominic on the phone like he like just that he's like yeah I remember he knew your lawyer how crazy is that Listen bro I don't really give a fuck what these people believe what they don't believe Because there's times I'm doing something and I get little messages like you know this or this If you don't believe what the fuck I'm talking about after all these fucking years Then go watch fucking star track or go watch you know agents of the windshield whatever the fuck that show is or you know these are the same people that watch that shit and believe that you know I listen I've been doing it I'm 54 motherfucking years old dog and uh I'm I'm really 80 in cat years do you know what I'm saying and I've been very

fucking fortunate to live a bad life and I've been very fortunate to have a good life you know I'm saying I mean it's very hard to describe what that means you know from zero to 15 I had a very good life. I had a couple notches in there with my family. I wished I had more from my family or more, but that's the way life turns out. I had a beautiful relationship with my mother, and God took her away.

Her taking her away made me a better fucking man. From 16 to listen, you know, 40, I was basically a failure just holding on. The only thing that kept me alive was this fucking stand up. And in all that time, I got a story for each of those fucking days. that I learned from either being a piece of shit or being a good person.

You know, 10 years ago, I decided to stop doing cocaine, which was really holding me down. You know, I got 37 years of stories of cocaine. I got 17 years of stories that I probably forgot. That when I go home, people remind me a little thing and I go, holy shit, I kind of forgot about all this. I have never told anybody I'm a bad person. I've told people I've made mistakes,

And I was put in different positions by my own hand. No, you know, it was Lee's fault. You know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I have a great life, man. I've learned a lot of things. And number two, I've met a lot of great people. And I've said it that, yeah, the sadness in my life deep down is that God took my life. You have a little, my mom's life and my dad's a young age,

and you have a little anger to God. I don't have that anger no more because it made me a part of who the fuck I am today. And one of the things that comes is the stories. Why do you think I yell at Yuri fucking day to get out of the house? I want everybody to live a full fucking life. And if you know what, if that means experimenting with an ice cube, Lee and putting a little acid on there, are you alive?

Absolutely, yeah. Did anything happen to you? You're kidding these damage? Did you jump out a window? Did you have a bad trip? All I'm trying to do is help you reach out a little bit. I never wanted Lee to be a criminal or snorke. or Coke or gamble or and I don't want that for any of my fucking friends I know

with traps in life I went through them I did them all I'm here for you I'm here so you can fucking learn but if you learn anything for me learn two things set tell the fucking truth and live your life and go balls for the fucking wall who gives a fuck at the end of the day it's like when you go bowling I always think I'm a bowling ball for me to do the best fucking thing To get a strike, what happens? There's pins laying everywhere. It's like I dropped the grenade.

That's people's feelings, that's people's emotions, that's people who didn't believe in me. But on the other side, those are the same people who did believe in me. You know, for you to do what you want to do in life, you know, you're going to make somebody unhappy. Somebody's going to be unhappy. You're going to call home tomorrow and go, Mom, I'm going to become a cop, and she's going to go, no, you're not. But your dad's going to go, thank God, Lee. You always make, no matter what decision you make, Somebody's gonna be fucking unhappy with it.

Some, my wife's gonna put up a hand like, Joe, you're gonna leave for five days. But for you to accomplish what you need to in your life as a human being, you have to live this fucking life. And that's it. It's hard. I struggle daily with not caring about what people think.

And that's a huge thing. Like, I never want to make anybody unhappy. I really don't. really don't but and that's where like with the other podcast whatever whatever work you're in Lee if you call me tomorrow right and say to me Joey I can't do the podcast because me and Paul are going along Beach and you're done I don't need that in my life right yeah but if you call me and go can we put the podcast on Thursday night because I really want to go this poker tournament it means the world

to me you know what Lee I'm gonna be mad at you for eight minutes and then I'm gonna go this is what this kid to do and then it's all gonna be forgotten it's all gonna be forgotten whether you win or lose you took the experience I think right now in our society people aren't taking the fuck like I say you know I found the pill in my pocket that's all a joke and I took it and it was one of Larry's yum yum pills people wouldn't do you know and I'm not saying to I'm not saying to do drugs or to be a thief or that no no no no no no no I'm talking to find out what you really want this fucking life you gotta get up off

the couch and get out of the goddamn house, you know? For the last couple of months, we've been scratching the surface, you and I, talking about podcasting and podcasting and podcasting. And one day you came to me, you know what, man, I want to be a professional gambler. Did I get mad at you? Did I say, Lee, but no, you're going to be a thousand things before you're 30 years old, Lee. I'm sorry to tell you.

For you to really, really have a great life, man, you got to have variety. You might kiss 20 fucking women and what? One's gonna steal your car, one's gonna give you VD, but eventually you're gonna meet that one that really rocks you, or you just might meet that one. There's people that have 20 jobs before they find the job they want. That's what happened to me.

You think that I had it easy, the other day, somebody wrote on Twitter, I wish I had your life, and I wanted it right, no, you didn't. You're doing great on your room, you don't want my fucking life. I don't want my fucking life at times. I think about sleeping on those buses and robbing people's houses

and corolling through a window. You think I don't think of these things? at night or every three days of the things I've done and then I think of the good things I did like I said the other day I'm not fucking funny you think I'm funny you're a fucking asshole you're a fucking asshole I'm not funny for listening to the podcast yeah the fucking the only thing that you could get out of me is the talent it took to get here the talent it took to go to bed crying every night and say this is what I want to do the talent it took to actually drop my daughter off and go do a spot without having a

nervous breakdown and I need pills and no no no no no no no no the courage to fucking sleep in a car and have people like Ralphie Mae go in his house and take a shit in the shower Ralphie didn't look down at me at the time you know why because I was a man with a dream and you weren't stopping me the most dangerous thing in the world is a man with a fucking dream bro that's on the right track not a man with a dream that well I got a parking spot that no no I'm talking about a man with a fucking dream that has that dream ironed out and the steps on how he's going to do that. Let me tell you something. I fucked up.

I got a left back in the seventh grade. I didn't answer my mother when she was for dying. But if you don't think I planned this the last 10 years, you're fucking crazy. Because I reevalued my life every fucking 90 days. Every 90 days I reevaluate my life Lee. Because I know we're not going to be perfect every 90 days. What aspects do you look at? What am I doing my life? What am I doing for me? And what am I doing to make somebody else's world a little bit fucking better? Am I imposing my influence on somebody who's having a hard time?

You know, I really try to help out young comics as much as I do. They're not going to get a fucking handout. You're going to work the same fucking way I did. You know what I'm saying? Nobody here rides for free. Nobody's going to get a call and go, come on, come on, let's go on the road. Don't work like that, bitch. I got to see the fucking math.

I got to see the work. I got to see the fucking work. Because I will point out 10 comics that are doing the fucking work every day. I will point out 10 young comics that I know that they're doing the fucking work every day. It's like when I went on Dom Rivera's podcast, we have a basketball mentality. You can't stop practicing because that guy, he's playing right now. Where you're sitting with your girlfriend and her family jicking around, that dude where you're going to go up against in November for the first ring and you're

CLA, he's practicing right now. He's not fucking jiggling and having a good time. He's in a ghetto right now playing five on five in the fucking rain. That's your mindset when you want to go forward, that somebody is doing your job 20 fucking times better. So you've got no time to slack. And that's with this book, you know, not the Iceman. You even said to me, what's this devil book you made me read?

Because you know what? What I tell you here two weeks ago, I said, The best, one of the best books I ever read was telemarketing in the 80s. It really, it just taught me how to sell, how to narrow it down the cell. The second book that really got me here was that book by Stephen Pressville, The War of Art or the Order, the War, whatever the fuck it is. It really got me here because it got me to show me how much time I've been wasting. It pisses me off.

It's broken up in the sections. and that first section like I had to I had to like he breaks it up beautifully it's really easy to it's an easy read I had to like put the book down

like every little section and like I almost want to write him an email and be like fuck you I thought I was happy you gotta get your notebook and write what he's explaining down so you never forget this

and every 90 days you gotta read that book every 60 days that book's only keep you honest you know I wish I would have read that book when I was 28. Oh, I'd be on a yacht right now with my state of mind. I'd be on a yacht right now.

Maybe not a fucking yacht. But I wouldn't be renting a house. I'd be owning a house. And I'd be owning a fucking, you know what I'm saying? And this is what I'm telling people that the time, I told you two months ago, if I was 28 right now, I wouldn't be dicking around. I'd be thinking about how I was going to make my next fucking millie,

my first millie. Because it ain't getting easier out there for a pimp. It's getting harder. And every minute you waste, There's a young adult today, oh, because to be honest, you guys aren't prepared adequately. You're not prepared for what's about to happen adequately. You know, Dom made a great point. We're both from Jersey.

If you hear, we both have, I came from the street. I don't know about nothing, but you know what I do know? I do know I get in the car. I know all you people listen to all these smart guys on podcasts, and they know about this. They don't know what Uncle Joey knows. They don't know how to wake up in the moon and leave the fucking house and come back with money. A lot of people don't know how to do that. And I'll get my fucking white wife to come in here and tell you guys how many times I left

the house. And no matter what, I brought home money. If you come to me and look me in the angle, Joe, tell you we need 140 to pay the phone bill. I feel bad for somebody. Do you think you had, you were speaking earlier in the podcast about people realizing resistance? Did you have resistance when you were, I guess maybe Coke was resistance, but...

Everything. I lived with, I am resistance. When you look at my name in the fucking yellow pages, it's resistance. They should call me Joey resistance. Even though you got so much done? Can you imagine if I wouldn't have known if I would have known about resistance 20 years ago? I'm not trying to fucking sell anybody religious.

I'm not trying to sell you rhetoric. I'm just trying to make your time fucking more productive. That's what you do in eight hours you could possibly do in four because you're talking on the phone. He's testing the book. Hey, listen, you want me to lie to you before I fucking. open up that lit-lift. I got to listen to music.

I got to smoke a joint. I got to jerk off. I got to get a piece of cake. That's all procrastination. That's all resistance. It's like, and it's, I think what is so powerful about it, at least for me, is that you're reading it in your own head because it's not like it's a brilliant book, but it's not like it's not something that you should know.

It's an easy read. Yeah, it's an easy read. It's an easy read. But then it's from the time. was a kid, I've been being told I was a procrastinator, and procrastinating is bad, and everyone tells you all this stuff. But it just doesn't, when you're reading it to yourself and it's your voice hearing it, I don't know. It just drove me crazy. I had, I called you like three times. That's why the, when you write stuff down, it goes back to that. When I tell you, I kicked an old

lady in the toot and ran away with a purse, we giggle. Ah, Joe. When I write that story down, And I read that story back, it doesn't feel so good anymore. So when you read something, that's why I had you read it Lee, because I wanted you to talk about on the podcast, and I want you to help other people that are going through the same fucking thing. Bro, I put my pants on one leg at a time just like you motherfuckers. The movies, the stand-up, that's all bullshit. I'm a man first. I was a loser, a minus loser first before that. So I know exactly what everybody's going through

That struggling with dough What they want Frustration Frustration? You have no idea of frustration Is when you're at the store killing people every night And you can't get to Montreal And you can't get an agent And you're booking movies

And nobody wants to talk to you I had a situation last week guys 25 fucking years in comedy I still get no respect You hear me crying about it? No I go home I tuck my dick between my legs And I try to be a better version than myself And that's all you can feel

fucking be. If it starts with you reading the fucking book or not, we're going to do this kind of podcast every two or three weeks about a certain book or once a month. And I hope you enjoy these things. I love reading and I've learned a lot about reading and half the shit I babble on about here is life experiences and half the shit is shit that I've read that I've learned from a book. Sometimes if I learn, if I read something from a book and it sounds a little kinky, I'll research it. I'll go to what I'll author fucking guy. You know, dog, I'm a fucking old school Jew. I'm a Jewish Jesus. You know what I'm saying? I'm fans with Jewish Jesus. Jewish Jesus questioned fucking everything. You said we all have different jobs.

When you're 60, 70, you're going to be a private detective. I can order you have, like, you do all this research by yourself. Like, you go in depth into the ways that no one else would ever look at some. I can't believe you do research into books. I have to research because how can I come in here and repeat what I read in the fucking book? Because there's always one asshole out there at this internet that'll call you out because you said the word wrong or whatever you know so before when I read these things if I read any book I if there's a part of a book that like when Led's when I read that that book about Led Zeppelin and they said they stuck a shark up a chick pussy in Seattle I did research for a week you know just before I you know when I heard that that John

Lennon had written fame and then he wrote Benny and the Jets for Elton John I did the research for a fucking week. I don't want to tell somebody and then look like a fucking asshole. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Let me give a shout out to my sponsors and I'll get you out of here. First off, Blue Apron. Let me explain something to you. Lee, tell them when they deliver the food. How nice is it? It's amazing. They deliver literally everything you need to make all these amazing meals. It's all in one box. They have it, they have a little knick-knacks set up like all your little sauces and oils. And then they have all the vegetables and fruits and all your meats. And there's no waste, all right? And for less than 10 $10 per meal per person. Blue Apron delivers seasonal recipes along with proportioned ingredients

to make delicious home-cooked meals. Choose from a variety of new recipes each week or let Blue Apron's culinary team surprise you. Recipes are not repeated within a year so you'll never get bored. Customize your recipes each week based on your preferences. Blue Apron has several delivery options so you can choose what fits your needs and there's no weekly commitment so you can only get the deliveries when you want them. Each meal comes with a step-by-step, easy-to-follow recipe card, and pre-portioned ingredients that can be prepared in 40 minutes or less. For example, this weekend, you got Chattaki mushroom burgers with miso mayonnaise.

You got seared chicken with French lentils and arugula fetter. You got a kale white cheddar, cassidia with a fried egg. Are you kidding me? Or what? Get the party started now. Check out this week's menu. and get three first three meals free with free shipping when you go to blue apron.com slash Joey.

That's Blue Apron's freshness guarantee promises that every ingredient in your delivery arrives ready to cook, although make it right. You'll love how it feels, you'll love how it tastes, and you'll love to create incredible home-cooked meals with Blue Apron. So don't wait. That's Blue Apron.com slash Joey and get your first three meals free. Blue Apron.com slash Joey

Blue Apron A Better Way to Cook and I'm going to give you free shipping Also, what do you think of that MVMT watch when you go out? People always say to you

You're looking sharp It's beautiful, matches your shirt They come in different colors Let me tell you something MBMT is a company That started by two broke college kids that wanted to wear stylish watches

But couldn't afford them Like anybody else So they started their own watch company All right They started just like us They were going through podcasts. They did it online. They built the following.

They went through YouTube, radio, etc. Movement watches started $95. At a department store, you're looking at $400 to $500. Movement figured out that by selling online, they were able to cut out the middleman and the retail markup, providing the best possible price. Classic design, quality construction, and style minimalism. Over 100 million watches sold.

Let me tell you something. Father's Day is coming. His ear out right near. Get 15% off today with free shipping and free returns by going to mvmtwatches.com slash church. This watch has a really nice, clean design. Seriously, Lee's been getting compliments ever since he put it on.

Now is the time to step up your watch game. Go to mvmtwatches.com slash church. Join the movement. I want to thank MBMT. I want to thank Blue Apron. And as usual, my main dog's all right on it, supplying the most clean supplements out there from the Shroom Tech Sport

to the Hempforce protein to the Alpha brand 100% guarantee. Go to honor.com right now. Press in. Church. And get 10% off delivered right to your house. We'll see you motherfuckers in two days. Get the party started. Stay black. Uncle Joey loves you.

That's it.