The Church of What's Happening Now: The New Testament - #554 - Gordon Warnock

Episode Date: January 30, 2018

Gordon Warnock, a literary agent and publisher who is working with Joey on his book, joins Joey Diaz and Lee Syatt LIVE in studio. This podcast is brought to you by: MyBookie.ag - Join now and MYBookie.ag will match your deposit with up to a 50% bonus of your first deposit. www.mybookie.ag. Use Promo code CHURCH to activate the offer.   Blue Apron: Go to blueapron.com/JOEY to get $30 off you first order.  Onnit.com - Use Promo code CHURCH for a 10% discount at checkout.   Recorded live on 01/29/2018.


Greetings from Podcastville, you filthy animals. This podcast is brought to you by Blue Apron, the leading meal kit delivery service in the United States, and while many people know what we do, many don't know what types of meals you could eat when you cook with Blue Apron. Blue Apron delivers fresh preportioned ingredients, and step-by-step recipes right to your door that can be cooked in 45 minutes. The menu changes every week based on what's in season,

And customers can pick two, three, or four recipes best on what fits their schedule. Now, listen to what I'm going to do. Blue Apron, we're going to take care of the family. You're going to get $30 off your first order when you visit blueapron.com slash Joey. Again, that's blueapron.com slash Joey. Check out this week's menu and get $30 off Blue Apron.com slash Joey. Blue Apron, a better way to cook. Now, unless you live it off.

fucking cave. Unless you live in a fucking cave. You don't know what's going on this weekend, but let me tell you what's going on this weekend. Everybody's worried about North Koreans sending missiles and this guy and the Russians and who gives a fuck. This weekend two fucking powerhouse states

are going to go up against each other. And that's the New England fucking patriots aka Boston against Philadelphia, aka what's Philadelphia? Pennsylvania. These are two U.S. powerhouses. You understand me? And this is how we make fucking money.

You're thinking of getting paid? This weekend is the way you're going to get paid. The big game is here, and it's time to cash in big. And bet the game with mybooky.orgie. If you haven't checked them out, this is the motherfucking weekend to get into the action. Have a hunch of who's going to win the coin toss or what color of the Gatorade the winning coach going to be wearing. Log on now, check out the props, and get it on the fucking action.

Don't just watch the game. Lay some Guitas down, invite some hookers over, get your pipe sucked, and watch the fucking money grow. Join me and thousands of online players and start betting on my bookie.orgie. Now join now today, right now, let's get the party started. Why fuck around? You're going to score free cash to play Super Bowl wager on the house. Right now, my bookie's giving away up to $1,000 to every new player. All right?

You understand me? Sign up today to score an instant 50% percent. bonus on your first deposit. That's right. If you join with a yardstick, that's $100 for you, Gentiles. You get $150 to play with. Use promo code church.

C-H-U-R-C-H-H to activate this offer. That's right. That's Uncle Joey Rose. Go ahead. Turn over to your little fucking girlfriend. Have a pinch of you. See if you're fucking dreaming. You give me your yardstick.

I'm going to give you $150 to play with. All right? Use promo code church to activate the offer. And most importantly, you play, You win, you get paid. And that's what it's all fucking about. Take that fucking meal at least. Oh, oh.

January 29. Churchill, what's happening now? Here we go. What? What? What? What? Fucking kidding me.

I won't even talk over fucking Tupacquack that drop. so fucking good. Welcome to the church of what's happened now. Happy Monday. That's it. January's over.

You're still in the same fucking predicament? It's your fucking dilemma. We're going to help you out today. I get my main man, brother, agent, mentor, my man, Gordon Warnock,

and there's usually the Christ killer with his little Coke shirt on fucking supporting the anti-war effort of Vietnam. Who gives a fuck? How you doing, buddy?

Everybody good? Everybody have a good weekend. Oh, yeah. It's beautiful. What's better than loving, especially when it's cold on the East Coast. It's fucking 87 degrees, people. Living like doctors out here today,

and you're over there wearing a fucking penguin suit. What are you thinking? You know what I'm saying? Thinking about shoveling the ice off your fucking attic. Anyway, if you came to the shows at the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, I thank you. There were five great shows. You guys were sensational audiences.

I want to thank the guy with the green hair who gave me those fucking THC Lollipops. I was fucked up the first night. And on the flight home, I was kind of fucked up. And that's it. I had a good weekend, Charlotte. So I love you.

Thank you very much for making me feel at all. That's it, brother. What's going on? Let me open up the door to a little fucking warm in here. Hold on. Yeah, that's crazy about Charlotte. It's been pretty cool because the last couple times, like, I went to Austin with you. It's cool getting to see the other people show up from the podcast.

It's really cool to have a full show. Well, it's been a family. It's like these fucking family Thursday night. was a lot of church. I think Friday early, which, I mean, they all come out, man. And I owe my heart for coming out and that's it. So what's up with you, G. Money? That's it, man.

Just out here spend some time seeing family and taking care of some shit. It's been a good trip. Good. Gordon, for those who know, is my agent, AKA mentor in the writing world. We've been talking for four years now. You know, when Florentine was on here last week, I said, I don't think you to write the book. He goes three years ago, I don't feel that fucking bad.

It's a trial and everything. So he was in town. I figured I could get him on here. Maybe you people want to write a book. You have aspirations of being a writer. And I think Gordon will open up your eyes and a lot of different avenues and stuff like that. Because it's a really interesting thing to do. I never, I wrote comedy for years.

That's great. You write comedy. And then years ago, I started putting out a story a week on MySpace. And it was fucking the hardest thing I ever had to do. And it's like I tell people all the time. Did you go to Samuel French? I did. I got, you know, I got the book the day it came out.

The new one. The new one. I'm so excited. Yeah. Well, he got a book for commercial agents and whatnot, but when you went to Samuel French. Oh, it was crazy. How many books are in there? I'm writing out of right.

You know what? I got a couple of the books. I got a book on acting for TV commercials. and I got a book of because a couple people told me to try writing TV so I was like all right I bought a book of Seinfeld scripts just to see

what like a good one would look like like all right let's see what it was a written and they had plays there I spent like 30 minutes there was awesome if you ever go into a store guys and you see a script for one of your favorite movies or a movie that you watch a few times

and they wanted the 10 bucks buy it take it home and read the script To see how it different. That was like the original draft. Yeah, yeah. And then you see the movie, it's pretty fucking interesting how it changes from the original draft. Because when you get it, you don't know what draft it is. When you buy it on the fucking, like I bought Goodfellas and the Godfather on the road in Toronto.

They have a great store. Yeah, they have a store. They just sell scripts. That's so cool. Every fucking movie you want. What I didn't know until I got home, I put together on my own, that it's the revisions. you, that's why the film is different than the script. Yeah, and sometimes they'll do that too.

They'll publish a whole book that is just about that movie and the script and all the notes and photos behind the scenes and all that kind of shit. And it's like, it shows you more than you get from just the page. It shows how that movie came about. There was one from The Godfather. It just came out a couple years ago and a few others out there. If there's a movie out there, you're really interested in. Yeah, get the script. It's pretty fucking rad to read it and go, wow.

I didn't see this scene in the movie and then you'll see it somewhere else in the script how they moved it so if I wanted to be a writer like how many books did you see I'm writing Natalie oh my God

Jesus Christ and it was cool because I mean Gordon so you you were mainly in books yeah okay so yeah like that's they had stuff on that but then they had stuff on writing plays they had stuff on writing commercials

yeah TV shows films you know just becoming right And when I first got here like anybody else, I lived in Samuel French. I really enjoyed the place. Yeah. There's no. Have you been to them?

I haven't know. If you, maybe on the way home, stop and you're going to have a ton of traffic. Shoot over Laurel Canyon and look a left. Yeah. They have parking. They have the only place in Hollywood parking. Yeah, they have parking. And just, it's a half hour experience.

Yeah. And you know what? The funny thing is they were all scams. Like I used to go in there and spend the hundred, but I'd shoplift 50. Yeah, right. Because do they still have the labels at the door? When you go to pay, they have labels. So when you come to this town, the biggest thing is getting representation.

So you go to Samuel French and you buy a book that comes out quarterly. And it's called The Agents or The Guide to Commercial Agents. Yeah, they have those for books too. Right. And if you go to page three, you break it down. Each commercial agent will tell you what they're looking for. Hypnotice, jugglers, a guy with one eye, a guy with missing limbs. I mean, they don't put it that way, but in other words.

It tells you what they represent. What they represent. Stand-up comics. You know, when they put stand-up comics, it's very general. That means you could be an improv comic, a stand-up comic. A stand-up comic or clean or dirty. So it doesn't matter. That's why I talk Lee into, if you live in L.A., you might as well go out for commercials

because they're right in front of you. Yeah. It's a ride. And you get to meet other people, and you mingle, and you get to see people that now go in for the same class as you. they fit everything you'll go in for Lee you see the same people there and now you'll see the commercial on air right so now you know he booked it and now next time you see him at the commercial with you you start giving him fucking dirty look and shit you know it's but you say hi man nice to see you again great luck good luck on the commercial you did great so it's kind of weird when you see the finished product

and what they were looking for yeah and it's it's weird for a guy like me because i moved here working in post-production. I had no at all, no thoughts of acting. And everyone I talked to, almost, it's not like, they're not mad at me, but everyone I talked to is like, you're going to book at least two or three things right away because you don't even want it.

Because he doesn't know what he's doing. One, two, he doesn't need it. He doesn't want it. And three, you know, it's, I mean, he's going to get pissed off eventually. Some commercial auditions you go out and they're running an hour behind and you've got to walk back to the meter and put a quarter in it.

Yeah. And most of them are on Santa Monica in Fifth Street. And they all want to see, they always want to see your age group at 445. That's why when that guy won the Oscar, he said, by the way, I went to every audition,

even in Santa Monica at 5 o'clock. Because people fucking hate those. That's well known. I can't imagine. Going back to Samuel French, when you go to Samuel French, guys, over the years, my first five years here,

I don't have to lie to you. I lived on couches, and I spent 50% of my, money on books of Samuel French and the other 50% on cocaine. And if I know what I know now, I would have spent 100% on cocaine because those books, you get so caught up in reading them that you don't write. You keep thinking that the more books you read, it's going to come to you one day, the Hemingwayism. Yeah, right. Well, it helps to educate yourself like that and get some of those books and realize what's important to them, to the folks who are ultimately looking to sign

you or buy whatever you're trying to sell. But at the same time, man, you've got to be an artist too. You know, you can't be 100% scientific about it. You know, it's got to have soul to it. You know, it's weird that, okay, so I want to be a writer. I write for the school newspaper in high school. I do the sports section. What's my next move, Jordan?

Well, it depends on what kind of writer you want to be. If you want to be a sports book writer, then you got to keep writing for sports publications, write articles, things like that. If you want to be a novelist, if you want to come up with your fantasy novel or whatever, then you've got to start working on your craft, start reading, you know, what other fantasy books are out there that people are buying and see what they do and kind of, you know, read them with a pen in hand and see how they put this book together. And, and then it's just, it's what you've been doing, man. It's writing and rewriting and, you know, throwing that away and rewriting and just it's a process but you know it goes through over and over again with you and then

you send it to people and they help you edit and all sorts of you know back and forth with the agent with the publisher and by the time it spits out as a book you know it might be very different from what you started but it'll still be something that you know hopefully if you you know still believe in that story and really want to get it out then it's something that is you're going to Somebody like Nick Tatura, who's a Yankee fan who knows every fact about the Yankees, let's say he writes an article to you. And he goes, Gordon, I'm having a tough time making money. Is there any way I can write an article for somebody?

How does that process go? If somebody just wants to write articles for like muscle and fitness or if somebody is an expert in whatever their field is, or not even an expert. You've done it for 15 fucking years. You know what the fuck you're talking about. You know, there's a trade magazine that you've been reading. 50% of it is bullshit. You know what, Gordon, before I became an electrical contractor, I went to school for four years, and I took creative writing.

I've written some articles. I've sent them to you. They're not bad pieces of, you know, maybe you could use some help. How do you go about getting a job in those situations like? Well, those are a lot of just kind of being on top of what you, uh, what you're writing into, like the types of magazines that you're submitting to, you need to also read those and make sure that you're not sending something that's, you know, too long or meanders off topic or whatever.

You need to make sure that it's that specific style writing for, say, Sports Illustrated versus ESPN magazine. You know, you kind of tailor it toward that magazine's aesthetic. And from there, I mean, it's a lot of submitting. a lot of work. You don't usually need an agent for these kinds of, you know, magazines and stuff like that. It doesn't hurt, but you don't need to have someone sending in on your behalf. When it gets the book world, that's a little bit different.

But when, if you just want to write freelance, yeah, freelance. Is that what they call it? Yeah, it's freelance. You want to be a freelance sports journalist or whatever. And then that's something that you do. and you start small, you start local, you start writing sports articles for your local newspaper or what have you, and then you build up a resume,

and from there you kind of keep going steps up until you get to the big leagues. Now, are there writing colleges, Lee and I were talking about a friend of mine. We're talking about Syracuse, USC. Emerson has a huge record. Emerson, you know, that you go to college and you, fucking come out of here because most of the agents I've had either gone to Syracuse, University

Miami, Emerson, you know, they're all the same. Now, who are the writing? So I'm in fucking high school. I'm not thinking about writing a fucking book. Like, the kid I grew up with, he's a nice kid. He wrote

for the paper all his life. But since that guy, Cinderella man, what was his name? Since that guy grew up in hometown he co-wrote the book that eventually was the movie that was made i mean he sold the right whatever i don't know what the fuck he did but he was just a regular sports writer like in uh oh yeah in uh and in the hudson county paper i forget what his fucking name is i spoke to him about two weeks ago the um but cinderella man grew up in north bergen so the boxer or the

yeah the boxer james braddick i mean hudson county park is braddock i mean hudson county park is braddock Park. Yeah. So we all knew little bits. I didn't know all that stuff about him, but even he went. He made the transition. Boy, you know what happened. He knew the knowledge. Somebody else was the writer. They got together and they

co-wrote the book. Yeah, that happens a lot. Something that I've been, it doesn't have to be writing, but something I've struggled with, and it seems like something you must deal with on a daily basis is people who are writing, submitting stuff to you want it to be perfect.

wanted to almost be like a finished draft rather than like a rough draft. It's like how do you deal with coaxing someone through like almost like to get past their perfection, like perfectionism like that part. Well, you do need a certain amount of drive and perfectionism too, but at a certain part you got to, you got to send it out, right? You can't sit on it forever and ever and keep making little tweaks and you eventually do have to let go and kind of be able to, you know, let it leave the nest, so to speak. Do you know how hard it is to send that work out?

Yes. Do you have any idea how hard it is for me to send you something after I keep reading it and reading it and reading it and then you find the missing word? But it's it's it never ends. But now sometimes I read a book and I see a fucked up word and then I go, who I don't feel that bad. The stake slip, you know? That happens. And no matter how many people they take, go through it and take a look at it, you're going to have some typos. finished products. But that's that's the number one thing that whenever we have a phone call,

I always tell you, man, don't worry about making it perfect. You know, just get it out of your soul and onto the page and then we're going to work with it from there and we're going to edit and make it better. And then, you know, the publisher's going to do the same thing. So for you, it's, it's mostly a process of just, you know, taking your heart out and putting it on to the piece of paper. And then from there we go back and forth and cut it up and all the rest of it. But it's a process. The worst is when like this last chapter I wrote. Like I did great with the other chapter.

I outlined it. And this chapter I outlined. The kidnapping? This is the one after I turned myself in the day after the kidnapping. And I outlined it. And I ended up, it started off with the state of mind, which I always like to include in there. Like what was I going through?

And then I told you too much information. Once I looked at it, it was finished. And I go, I'm not sending this out. This middle piece, I do not like this middle piece, because it kind of went into three different stories that I was missing the whole story. The guy bailed me out. You know, it was like the last person in the fucking world. Like, here I was beating the wrong bushes,

and all of a sudden I got a call, and they're like, my father wants to talk to you. He just wants to come down and visit with you. And I was like, I don't think it's a good idea. And he goes, I think it's a good idea. And he came down, asked me what I had done. And he fucking bailed me out. And I was like, Jesus.

And it's like I was telling Lee, you know, when you get out of one of those situations, I can't imagine getting out of an insane asylum. Like, let's say if you go crazy one night and they put you in there for 60 days. Because the feelings you get when you walk out of there, you think everybody is watching you. everywhere I went for two or three weeks I had this stink on me that everybody had known what I had done and I didn't make eye contact I would go to the supermarket in and out

and I didn't talk to the butcher anymore and it took me three weeks to you know so it's really hard that was what I wanted to get on paper but that's not what fucking came out of booking paper because I get high sometimes I write at night my best writing is in the daytime right yeah sometimes I get so bored at 9 o'clock at night

I go, let me give it a shot. And I get good. I get two hours in or something. And the next morning I wake up and I go, what the fuck is this? I got to stick to my 9 a.m. 10, 10, 10 a.m. writing, you know. Well, the most important part is actually doing the writing, whether or not it ends up really good. That's it. That's it. That's the muscle that they don't tell you in any of the books.

Yeah, that you're not going to get a perfect first time and that's okay. That's that that all you need to do is keep writing. Yeah. It's just like the thing I say about keep showing up. You're a fat fuck. Keep going to the gym. Eventually it all clicks. But Joey, I went to the gym and I gained four pounds.

That's okay. That's right now. But if you keep going, it's going to twist in your mind. You'll twist your mind that why are you killing yourself to be a fat fuck? And all of a sudden, you'll start looking at your diet. But it all starts somewhere. Yeah. It has to start with not potential energy, but kinetic energy, energy in motion.

Well, that was my question for you. because I know you wrote a blog before you started doing this, but like that's something that I've all, you want it to be perfect so you don't even start. Like how long did it take you to start trying to write the book? My problem with the book was, and with anything I do, I double question myself. Right.

Okay, I'm a human being. I bleed just like everybody else, and I have insecurities like everybody else. You start double guessing yourself at every level. I don't, that's my big. fucking problem in this whole fucking thing, whether it's fitness. That's always been my biggest problem. The problem, yes, but also, you know, that's kind of what makes you good at what you do.

What you do. Yeah, artists I found are way more introspective than the average person. And so that could be a good thing, help them come up with some really good stuff, but it could also be a little aggravating. It kills you. I don't know. It kills me, guys. That's why I've been working a lot with my therapist on.

Just noticing my patterns in life, what I've done for 29 years, how the situation change, but my reactions really don't, like, whether it's school work. And I have to, like, I'm in the process of trying to kick myself, like, just in, just do something. Like, this is off topic of books, but there's this guy, there's a vlogger named Casey Nystad. He's a great, has millions of followers, sold the app to CNN a couple years ago for millions. CNN just closed it. He's back to vlogging. And some people look at that as a failure, which it did fail a little bit. But he still made millions.

Like he still had that. So like just seeing that really like, was like, wait. There's never any fucking failure, though. That's the fucking thing that what finally got me going with you with the book was, this guy's the sweetest guy in the world. He believes me, but I don't believe in me. How can something you don't believe in you? You don't fucking believe in you.

He telling me the story's right there. Right at Joey. For a year, I would write three paragraphs and go, he's not going to like this. And I just said, enough is enough. This book isn't going to write itself. Nothing that's done on itself. You know, that's the thing about the arts, karate, jiu-jitsu, writing, stand-up. Along the way, you get to find out about your faults.

And that's the biggest fucking hurdles. That kills you the most. To accept these faults and try to redo them or to keep falling into that trap. That's what happens as an artist. that's what I'm a criminal. I don't know not about the art. What I'm trying to tell you is that that's your biggest trap. It's always, it always has been for me. Well, it's always there, but it's also, you know, again, it's beneficial because you have a whole bunch of people who it's their job to kind of tell you what your faults are. And through their help, you kind of, you know,

become a better writer, yes, but then that, that one product that you're trying to get out also So it gets polished up and good to go. And, I mean, you have a lot of people pointing out a lot of faults before something comes out. And, you know, it's all for the best. But people pointing out a fault and you finding a fault. Well, that too. It's two different observations. It really is.

When you find the fault and you attack it, some people, I attack it, you know, I attack it. Like today I call, I got to go for this tetanus shot. I already can't. You're all right. Only once? No, no, I got to go for the tetanus shot. and they're going to draw blood the same day. That's a double way.

I mean, that means I'm going down either one street or one bad street. You know I avoid that. I'm going to lay you flat. I get the same thing, man. The intramuscular needles are the ones that freak me the fuck out because I could feel the serum going into the fucking thing. Yeah.

I fainted years ago from an ass shot. Didn't even see the needle. I just bent over and never bent back up. I just stayed there. They kept tapping me. You okay? You're okay. I was fucking pale.

But so, okay, so now I'm in high school. I want to be a fucking writer. What college do I go to? What type of courses do I take? If you want to work with a specific writer, a lot of writers, like literary writers are also professors. Like one of my favorite authors, Lance Olson, works out at the University of Utah. And so if you write works like him and you want to learn from him, then you apply there. Or, I mean, Brown is another really big one that's very exclusive.

Iowa is another one. I've heard about that one. Yeah, yeah. Oftentimes you'll see, like, when their industry announcements of an author gets signed or a book gets sold, they'll say, oh, they worked on this at Iowa. And then you know that, you know, it's really gotten a close eye. But it's not so much the schooling, the education is what you get out of it. I read some work from students of Brown and it was complete shit. And some, you know, go on to become really well published successful authors.

You know, it's what you do with it rather than just what school you go to or whatever. I mean, I know plenty of people who, you know, went to stay at schools or didn't even go to college who, you know, have book deals and have writing careers. It's, you have to have that drive. How, like, similar to stand up, how do writers get their work critiqued when they're, you know, not getting it purchased. Like how do you, how do you, like, okay, well, this is, I, because I'm, I'm sure they don't send it back to you. Hey, we didn't buy it. And this is why we didn't buy it. They probably just say, no, thank you. Yeah, yeah, we can't really give detailed feedback, usually just because of the volume that comes in. It's just crazy. But it's, you know,

you have to work on it and revise it and do as well as you can. And then you have to show it to other people. So it helps to have a, a critique group or a writing partner or someone who you, you share work back and forth and you kind of mark it up and say, well, this is, I was confused at this point or this character probably needs something else here. They are a fresh set of eyes that look over your work for you. And that's the kind of working out process of, you know, you going up on stage, doing open mics or doing, you know, five minutes spots or whatever. Right. It's that kind of thing. And sometimes, you know, they're not going to be meeting and discussing your full manuscript. It'll oftentimes be 10 pages or a chapter or whatever that they'll trade and then meet up a week

later and sometimes that's you know that's how you work it out and it must be because I know Joey's worked with a few people and like for me when you told me about the peer group I started thinking about about school and how much I hated giving my writing to other people especially

if I didn't like them I don't care what you think about my writing so it must be pretty like that must be an important part of it is finding the right people to work with because like if you send it to someone and you hate their opinion you're like well that doesn't I'm not going to to learn anything.

Yeah, and you've got to find the right people, too. I mean, if you find someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, or if they're, you know, not your kind of writer, they just don't know your genre, then it's going to be, you know, detrimental even. Getting bad advice is worse than getting no advice at all. Like, I know the style of writing that I like, as soon as I open up a book.

Yeah. Like, the last 10 years or so, writing has gone into this avant-garde that it's too many words. What are you trying to fucking tell me? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Too many words, what the fuck you're trying to tell me. I'm very happy that you're intelligent,

and I'm very happy that you're insightful, but it's too much, guy. Just like, you know, people send me books all the time, and those are the books. I read everything. I try to read everything, and, like, you know, my favorite authors, obviously, are Hemingway and Stephen King.

I love the process of somebody scaring the shit out of me on paper. Yeah. You know, without even talking to you, as soon as you open up Kujo, you're scared, you know. That's the first Stephen King, I read it in prison, you know. I did. That's the first book I read in diagnostic. Why are you reading horror books in prison? Because what do you think?

That's a red flag. Hold on, what do you mean? They got a Barnes & Noble in there, and you're still in there with your credit card and go, can I have the works of fucking no? Yeah. They have a card. A black guy comes up to you with six books. three of them are about basketball, two of them about criminals,

and the other one's about World War fucking one. You got a choice. Pick one of the other books I read that was very enjoyable was on Wings of Eagles. It was the pseudo biography of the dude with the big ears from Texas that was ran for president. Oh, Perot. Bro. Yeah, Ross Perot.

Like that was just another great book I read was The Silence of the Lambs. It was weird. I used to only read books when I was a kid that had moved. I think it's attached to him because I wanted to see and then after a while I'm like why do I do this this is the dumbest thing in the world to read a book with a fucking movie Either watch the movie or read the book pick a fucking country and then now I read but it's funny like when I read Hemingway's biography I read Hemingway's biography when I lived in Aspen in 83 I don't know the name of the book now

My buddy went to Brown and I think he's the one that gave it to me and the one I read it sounded so fucking insane. There was no, nothing in the book that described work. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's what pissed me off in hindsight. Like, I used to see Hunter S. Thompson. Hunter S. Thompson wrote some great books. But I used to cop weed at the Woody Creek fucking tavern once a week,

and I'd see Hunter S. Thompson in there. And from what I heard from people, he was always in there. When did he fucking time write to find time to write books? Everybody was always partying. All the guys I liked, except Stephen King, I read on writing. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, he blasts music and shit. Oh, yeah, whatever you need.

He faces the window towards the fucking thing. It's very interesting. But except for Stephen King's biography, nothing and became the illusion of work. It was like they went and got up and wrote three sentences. Well, it's the same thing. I went to a bar. You know what I'm saying? That's like, you know, with, probably with any kind of art, but, you know, if you don't know stand-up,

you think that some guy just gets up on stage and talk shit for an hour. That was me. I thought that you just got up on stage. You said, hey, you mind taping my sentence? I got some shit to say, and somebody just came and taped it. Hit record. It's going to be good. Yeah, but no, I always found writing to be, like, how I wrote a joke for years was I have an idea.

I wrote a tag for it and then I went to the comedy store and worked it up. And that's why my career was shit because I wasn't tagging. I wasn't really putting heart into it, telling a story or telling the listener why I have this opinion on this subject

compared to my life. I wasn't doing all that, you know? Yeah. And then I heard a special where the guy's jokes sounded like mine. He wasn't stealing or nothing. It was the type of jokes I was doing and I realized how come he was so unsuccessful.

was the same reason why I was so unsuccessful because our material was shit. Which my material, I'm no comedy writer. I just tell you what's in my heart and I mix it a different way. But even like when I watch, like to me, great comedy writers, Neil Brennan is definitely up there right now.

To me, there's some people who are just brilliant joke writers. Rogan comes into mind from time to time. Chappelle writes a different type of joke, I think. But it's all their voice. We're talking about the same thing as when you're writing. The hardest thing to do is find your voice. And that you can only do through repetition.

So like we were talking about Ralphie before the podcast. Last time he was on here, he talked about when he first started doing stand-up, it was all fat jokes. And he didn't really find his voice and what he was. was going to be talking about and he was just going to the easy way which is talking about his weight and someone pulled them aside and said hey do you want to be a fat comedian or you want to be a comedian who happens to be fat and so it's it's the same kind of thing of you know finding how you want to tell your stories what kind of details you want to focus on and just it's the

same thing as finding your voice but here's the funny thing if you read judy carter's workbook which I've never seen it before him. So when you read her handbook, but again, the coach of the fucking Chicago Bulls was a horrible player, Phil Jackson,

and look what he became. That's why I don't, I don't believe any of that shit when people are like, well, this guy won the nationals or whatever he did that. I like that there's people who are just great teachers

who know how to get it to you. What are we talking about? Who are we talking about? Talk about finding your boys. Fuck. Comedy writing and writing books. I mean, I know that, I mean, that makes sense for Ralph.

He may not only talking about his weight. Oh, oh. So Judy Carter says that the second joke, okay, the old blueprint, I'm sorry, Lee. No, no, no. The blueprint for comedy is that you open with your second best joke and you close with your best joke. So Judy Carter and her workbook says that she wants you to open with your second best joke, but she wants your second bit, your second bit, to be about the most noticeable feature you have.

You see, now I disagree with that. I wanted that at the end. Over the years, like I had a friend who had a glass eye, and he did comedy. And you go on stage and he'd say one joke and then he'd attack the glass eye. Well, guess what? Now you've got to know where to go.

Yeah. After the glass eye, you need an explosion in your area. all together. That's it. Because they laughed at the glass eye, you know, and he would do 10 minutes on, you think I'm watching you, but I'm really looking at the clock, and it was all funny stuff. I kept telling him dog, you're slipping.

Yeah. That's your last five minutes. You could keep adding to that. Like, my friend Roger Rittenhouse has a fucking hook. Okay? Yeah. When Roger Rittenhouse would come on stage, he'd address the hook,

but then later on, he would do the thing about that his arm, fucked up one time. He took it in. They gave my foot by mistake. So he had a foot. You know, I don't like the noticeable thing. So there's two avenues to that. So that's when you start. First of all, you have

two blockades when you start. You have the blockade of if you're fat or skinny or ugly you've got a big nose or you're missing an eye. And you also have the blockade of something else. I was going to tell you, what the fuck is going to my memory to that? I didn't take my alphabre.

You have two. blocks. Oh, you are doing who you admire. Oh, right, yeah. Like, I think I don't know if it was you, I sent you something in the beginning and you were like, I don't think that's going to work because I was trying to be Stephen King. Well, you were, um,

you were, you said something about you know, I'm, I'm no Hemingway, where I said, you know, good. I don't want Hemingway. I want Joe Diaz. Right, right. So, yeah, it's you know, you know, yes, you're going to pick up some tendencies from some authors and, and sometimes, you'll hear some advice in writing books that, you know, it's common to say, oh, don't use adverbs.

They're weak words. Well, they are weak words, but sometimes you need a little connective tissue or sometimes you need a little dynamics. Like Dean just reshot a special because the first one was too good. His CD taping, the first one was just, he said it was at 10 the whole time, and he needed a little give and take. And so he just re-recorded his CD because the first one was, you know, crowd was too into it.

That seems smart. Yeah. Just going back to, like, you do, you don't want to set yourself in a hole, I'm sure, but, and I'm sure this happens with writers too. I've been going to open mics, and it's, I enjoy seeing, like, there's a guy

there last night who plays poker. So he had a joke about that. There's a couple of guys who were a waiter, so they had jokes about the, so it's, even though they don't have the joke writing experience that Joey does, it's, I can tell when they're writing, a joke and when they're actually like, oh, this happened today when I was working or like and it actually, you can see you make a bigger connection with it. Yeah, and some of that advice that you'll hear sometimes someone will say, write what you know. And there are, you know,

reasons to do that and reasons to not do that. But it definitely is a source of, of material when you have, even if you're writing fiction, but you know a guy that was kind of a little certain way that, you know, you want to make your character sort of like him. You know, you, you, you appropriate reality for what you're making up. You know, whether you're writing fiction or not fiction, your life is going to influence that. So it's going to be, you know, something that will creep out onto the page. Well, we'll get somebody like T.J. English, for example. We'll just throw his name out.

Like, I discovered from 98 to about 2004, I spent a lot of money on the road on Barnes and Nobles. I would go to a town, and if the condo was close to Barnes and Nobles, I'd go in there. and just destroy their true crime section. Yeah, yeah. I always loved whether it was a book on OJ or something. I always was mesmerized by those topics. I read every mafia book that had to do from 1965 up. I didn't really like the Capone era and all that stuff.

And I read all of that and honesty with you because I always wanted to be prepared for those roles. When I moved here, and especially after the Sopranos, I noticed I was always getting called in for Moff. year old. So I read those books about different guys. That's research. So I could relate a character to that guy. So when some, like last week, when I auditioned, the guy's name is Taffy. I give that guy a name. So his name is Joey Taffy Taffarelli. And I give him a background. So when I go in there, I have a certain thought in my mind to play that guy, okay? Let's pretend like T.J. English.

He's a fucking white little Jewish guy from fucking the Bronx that probably grew up. around and saw mafia people, but he wrote a book about the Westies. Then he wrote one of the best books I've read for me, Havana and O'Tern, and then now he's writing a book about Cuban numbers.

He grew up fucking white. He don't know none about Cuban numbers. So how much research goes into that? Like, how much fucking, like, those are the things that have, like Jerry Capisi. He's a crime writer, and he wrote a lot of New York

pieces, a lot of Goddy shit. Yeah. They have contacts. Oh, sure, yeah. I mean, a lot of it, it depends on what you're trying to dig up, but yeah, you'll talk to people and you'll take notes. You'll, you know, if you need to,

if you're writing about France, sometimes it's beneficial to go and actually walk the streets. Yeah, absolutely. How do you go to France and write a book? But that's what I'm saying. But yeah. It's like, I don't know anything about half the shit Joe Rogan talks about. So I would never write a book about that stuff. Sure. He likes,

Martians and animals. Yeah, but he lives in that world. He lives in that world. So I would never write about something like that. But if I wanted to write something like that, for example, what happened? My buddy, he grew up in Northburg, and he had all the knowledge of the world about Cinderella man.

And when they wanted to write a book around him, he wrote whatever, and they consulted him. They used them as a consultant. I always see in movies or whenever you see a writer on a TV show, they're always like going on a police ride along to do just to like put themselves in that oh yeah that too you know just whatever you need to to get that firsthand knowledge you know and and sometimes it's uh it'll significantly alter what you're trying to write you know you find the new story or or whatever i have a an author who's

working on a book right now and and the more research he does the more kind of twists off the original path we take but it's ultimately you know working with him and we're making making it stronger. It's going to be a lot more interesting of a book because of some of these side streets he's gone down and turned it into a big, you know, rope that we're all going to braid together and make this into a really interesting book. So sometimes it works out in your favor. And sometimes you can't get distracted and, you know, waste time. But, you know, it comes with the territory, you know. Out of all your clients, are they all college educated writers?

No, no, no, no. I mean, some are yes. And some have, you know, been published in literary magazines and stuff like that. But for the most part, no, they're just people who want to write and put in the work and actually get those results. And sometimes, you know, that will come with, you know, having critique groups and partners helping them out. And sometimes it's just, you know, blood, sweat and tears, you know, draft after draft and, you know, reading, doing research, but putting the time in. I've seen the process. Yeah. I've seen the script writing process. know, I'm living through the book writing process and I'm not doing too well, but I hanged in every day.

You know, when I took that breather, that was the most important thing about those five weeks to get myself in that rhythm. What people don't understand sometimes, you just got yourself into a rhythm. Remember to do this second every day. You know what? If you write a paragraph is great. If you write fucking a thousand words, it's great. And I read the second book you sent me, and that put me on a thousand word a day limit.

That really had me buried. The only problem was my back was starting to hurt too much. So I cut it down to 500 and I break it up into two different sessions. That's still good. What's the matter? You got heartburn or something? No, I feel good. All right.

You're looking at me all week. You didn't even eat any edibles and you fucking got that fucking out of space look. Eat the fucking guava and cheese things. Oh, geez. Yeah, you'll be all right. I'm fine. Do you have, because I don't know even what genre, consider this with Joey, if it's autobiographical or like stories,

but do you work a lot in just straight fiction? I do that too, and it really depends. I don't work with everything naturally, but there are some types of works that I gravitate toward, and memoir is one of those. It's kind of an interesting distinction that it's not straight autobiography, like the entire story of everything that happened. It's a memory.

A memory of a big change that you go through. And we're using, you know, events from all over your life. But it has this one thread, this one change that you're going through. And that is, you know, that's what makes it a memoir rather than like a chronicle or an autobiography. But it's, yeah. I like a good story, but I'm also a very, very, very big fan of the biography. Yeah. And my thing is I always read multiples.

Really? You'll read multiple biographies on the same person? In the same person. Just to see what the author, what was important to him to let you know. That was my take on it for some reason. Like I've read multiple biographies on Hemingway, and I read a couple books on fucking my favorite comedian

than the crazy guy from the 60s, Lenny Bruce. Yeah. I've always enjoyed biographies. That's why I like telling them biography. I love, you know, I don't know how many biographies I've read, but they have just interesting people. Like I said, Ross Perrault. They're great ones out there.

I think I even read fuckos, the guy who got his dick suck when he was the president. Oh, Clinton? Clinton, yeah. Yeah, Texas guy tell him to put the air on, because I'm sweating like a fucking, I'm sweating like Michael Jackson at a daycare center. Look at me of fucking drenched the pieces. Did they include the Monica Lewinsky stuff in the Bill Clinton biography? No, this was before this.

I also read like the Kennedy one, the John F. Kennedy one. I didn't like his father's fucking biography. I read, uh, doesn't, did I see the Patty Hurst one coming out? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I like all that shit. You know, uh, I've read a lot of sports people like Julius Irvings come from, Oh, yeah, I love that shit. That's my big thing.

I've always been a big, big fan of autobiographical stuff for some reason or another. Yeah, and that's one thing that, you know, sometimes, you know, certain people like to shit on reading rock biographies or reading romance or something that's perceived to be a little fluffy or a little, you know, not too serious. But no, man, the important part is, is you're reading and you're taking in information and it's stimulating your mind, you know. enough people don't read it all. You know, this is, and if you find something that is your jam, you know, by all means, go for it. It's crazy that you would never expect this from a guy like me, but I've read all my life. Yeah. Like, there's something about that piece that I love listening to music, you know, I'm an old child, I love listening to music.

But my other thing is a great fucking book. like there's no better feeling than getting stoned and knowing you can go on a plane and that you're going to be uninterrupted. Yeah, that's nice. I got to figure out how to download these books on my little fucking pad. Yeah.

And I got Nicholas Gregorius's jiu-jitsu book on there. And yesterday it was a fucking five-hour flight back. You could just watch so much fucking TV. Yeah, right. And I said, let me read that for a while. I read that like 30 pages. And it was great. I love being able to.

to read uninterrupted. And I don't mean at a park under a tree, so people take your fucking Shakespeare. I mean, like, just finding a nook in your house and getting comfortable, I think that is one of the great and I also felt, and this is how I felt, especially

after I started writing comedy, that to write you got to read. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know why that always has driven me crazy, that. I'll speak to comics and they don't read as much as I read. I read. I don't know why. I just like to read. Some shit is garbage.

Well, I mean, Joe, I know you said you started derading in prison again. But, like, for me, I know there's a lot of people like me who I haven't really read on a consistent basis since I left high school or college, I guess. Because they make you do it so, like, you kind of get turned off to it. Yeah. And there's some people who love it and some people continue to do it. But I'm one of the people who I haven't read it. And I've bought books and I finished a chapter or two and I just, I never cracked them again.

So how do you get, like, how do you guys get in the rhythm of reading? I was a bullshit artist reader. I would take a book and read what I wanted to read. For years, I did that because I, too, in the seventh grade, had a teacher called Mr. Kingwell, who would make you read a book every fucking month and do an oral book report, which is a fucking nightmare. You can't buy those. He would ask you questions about the book. And that really pissed me off because I'm the type of guy that if I'm into a chapter and it's got nothing to do with what I'm thinking about, I'll fucking not read that chapter.

And somewhere along the line, I think when I quit high school, it fucked me up so much mentally. Yeah. It really did, like deep rooted because it made me feel what I didn't want to feel growing up, which was just plain fucking stupid. Like, it was bad enough I got left back. But now I got to quit high school, and come on, I didn't really need to get a job. That was the story I made up because I wanted to snorke and have a certain life. which it still didn't. But the point is that that's

when I got into reading. I still remember one of the books I read. Jimmy Pierce saw Fear Strikes Out about a Boston Red Sock player that was crazy. And he used to run around the games, the bases backwards and shit. Really?

And he ended up in a padded room. I remember all these little books. I'm not one of these guys that is going to read a book and put it in the shelf behind me. So when you come over, you're going to see that. You can see your display.

You know. I have favorite books that have that I've kept just because I'll read a book over every once in a while. Yeah, yeah. I'll do that every two or three years just to get to learn something. You pick something up. Oh, sure, yeah. How does somebody get signed? So somebody goes to college, they graduate college.

They get a degree in creative writing. One of the other writings, journalistic. Literature, yeah, any kind of. So when they get a literature, already when you're in college, you should. if you're in a writing program, you should already have a fucking book out by the time you got to college. That's asking a lot, but you're going to learn a lot in college, and then you're going to learn even more after you graduate, and you're trying to write and sell books for a living.

You know, it's a tough gig. You know, and a lot of people, a lot of really famous writers, too, will have three, four manuscripts in the drawer that nobody's ever going to see because they had to do those three before they could write one that was good enough to sell. And now they're, you know, major bestsellers and stuff like that. So, I mean, it's a process of just repetition and, you know, building up that muscle. And I know there's a lot of people who are in college right now who listen to this. And even though you are still learning, the thing that, one of the things that blew me away coming from college was even though I thought I was really busy, how much free time I actually had in college.

So Joey's right. Even though it might not be good, you could have a book by the time you graduate. Because if you're in college right now, when you get out and you're starting a job, you have way less time. Even though you don't have homework, it's a way you have way less time to sit down and write. So you could, in theory. Yeah, that's knowing what you know now. Back in college, you know, you didn't know you had all that free time. It's like, oh, shit, I got to finish this assignment, or there's this party or this whatever that I got to do.

And, you know, all drama and stuff that goes with it. And you don't realize that once you get out, it's, you're going to have a lot more responsibilities. And it's all on you at that point. But, yeah, so I don't blame them if they don't have their shit together when they graduate. What's that book that came out years ago? The Warriors Way, the Warriors. Remember, everybody was doing the Warriors Way. When I got into comedy, and when I got into comedy in 91, I was just a fucking,

but in 94 and a half for some reason, I said, that's it. I have to document all this. Yeah. Like I had notebooks to write jokes in. But I also took, and this is what I also did for writing. I also have now in my calendar, and I've always had this, you have, you look at your calendar, this is January 1 through 30th, right? And then if you turn the page again, in the new calendar, it has your day and what time your appointments are. Okay, yeah.

So I have things I have to do every day. I even made a log for writing. Yeah. So when I'm writing, there's a notebook next to me. And I have the outline out, and I have how long I spend on it. That's a checkpoint every day. Like, that really helped me getting into the groove. Yeah.

If you want to get into the groove of reading, put it in your list. You know, I have to go to the gym. I've got to go to Dr. 2.30. I'm doing a podcast with Joey at 5. And then 30 minutes a day before Paula comes home. Rip out a book about Tom Brady. First of all, start with shit that you like. Right, yeah.

That's the number one thing. Don't read a book because some guy told you that. Just read a book that you like. When I go to Barnes & Noble's, I look for shit. You know, and sometimes I go in there looking for one thing and end up finding something else. That's love it. Love it.

Love it. Love getting surprised. Love leaving there. It's like a record store. You're going in to look for the Warriors, but you find fucking. a concert, it's a surprise. I love to start with reading what you enjoy. You enjoy bad food, write a chef, write a book, read a book about a chef with bad recipes, a lizard meat, and then read a book about, you like New England, you like. Well, yeah, the Bob Linguish has

given me a couple Patriots books. I have to read, so I would love to read those. Bobillings is the best guy to give books. Nobody gives a better book than Bobillings. Some people are like that, yeah. He's giving me the Jimmy Page biography. He got me the fucking, I think he got me, no, he didn't get me Peter Grant. He got me the Led Zeppelin book. There's one other one he got me. That's sensational. Not the Hollywood Henderson

one, but the one about the fucking guy from the Detroit Pistons, Marvin Badd News Barnes. Like he's got, you know, those reads for me, that's a day. Oh, sure. Yeah. I can read those in a day. And it's great fun. And it's something that

you know, you get into your head and you, it's a relaxing experience, but you also, if you're trying to write a book at the same time, yeah, you can relax and have fun with it too, but, you know, if you have a pen with you and you can, you know, underline, you know, how he introduces certain characters or how he starts this chapter or, you know, how, you know, he refers back to this point and stuff like that, you can kind of see how the pieces all fit together. It's, it can be a good exercise, too, if you're trying to write, you know, you can still read for fun. Yeah, but you also get something out of it. Joey's been asking a lot of questions about, like, how you, like, get a job and all that. How much has this changed in the last five or ten years with digital, right? Because, like, Joey's coming with questions that I think would have been a lot more complex for you to answer maybe 15 years ago. What are you saying, cock sunk up? I'm asking a bad question.

No, no, no. No, no. No, no. No, yeah. That's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really kind of opened up things.

into different directions that people didn't anticipate. And when it came out, you know, when the Kindle came out, a lot of people were, uh, were kind of building their, uh, their end of the world shelters and stuff like that. Like they thought it was going to end books as we know it. And, you know, it's, if you look back, you know, they had that same kind of panic when they started doing paperbacks, like cheap paperbacks like, oh, this is going to kill publishing. But, um, you know, the ebook is now just another format. Some people prefer to read on a candle and be able to take a thousand books with you wherever you go.

Or some people really have to have that page that you turn and you feel. And so it's just another segment of the market. And it's a different types of writing are better suited to digital than others. But at the same time, it's just gone to consumer preference, you know, whoever likes reading paper versus digital. I like reading. And I have to tell you something. I like having the book. I'm an older gentleman.

I feel like having a book. I do both, though. But I really enjoyed reading on the iPad the other day. I'm the flight home. I really enjoyed that. In fact, I'm going to have more books. Because everybody always sends you exercise routines and you have to download them. So I'm just going to download them on that.

Oh, sure. Yeah. That's the best thing in the world. Well, and it depends on how you, you know, what situation you're in, you're doing, what kind of time you need to fill. And then, you know, that could dictate what's best for you. And sometimes it's good to, you know, open your mind to different methods. Like, just a few years ago, I started really getting into audiobooks when, yeah, when I found myself, you know, doing most of the cooking at home or doing most of the driving and things like that. And

having this free time where my hands are occupied. And I have to focus on something else. But I can also have an audio book going and and some of the books are even better that way like if you if you get uh if you get stanhope's last book get it on audio does he do it oh he does it several other people it's like his podcast it's great okay okay and sometimes uh you know with especially with memoirs where it's that person reading it it's a different experience you know i'm definitely reading my yeah to scare this shit out of people absolutely that's gonna be a party that'd be good Let me give some shoutouts real quick. My man, Jeff from Queens,

Anthony, something, the Stone Mason. Thank you for your, oh, this guy offered me a job as a Stone Mason, so something, Stone Mason, Tony Zio, Tyler Howell, Renee, and Castione took a picture of fucking the shit.

I used to drink when I was a kid that'll put 92 pounds on you. It's fucking condensed milk with orange juice and a ton of sugar. I forget what the fucking Dominicans call it, but that shit's good. My man, dude, Aaron Michael Stein, my man, Frankie Barker running 10th plan in Australia, Kanye Twitter, and Dave Wilder, thank you. It was always a pleasure seeing you in Austin again, Cocksucker.

And don't forget, my 55th birthday show, February 17th, 730 at the Ice House, and then February 23rd bitches, Lee and my son. invade the Denver Comedy Works. We're going to be in Green Chili nine times in three days. So I'll see you guys at the Comedy Works. Those tickets are posted already.

Listen guys, I'm doing clubs. I'm not a star to do theaters. So I still do clubs. So it's the Comedy Works. I've been selling these tickets. Get them quick if you want to see me. I don't add shows. I'm too fucking old. So Comedy Works February 23rd to

26th. 22nd to the 24th. 22nd to the 24th. And then we get the Ice House on February 17th. So the main question is Gordon, Jordan. What I can you, Jordan? I've been called worst. What the fucking corner of the same?

I'm a college kid. I'm getting one of these degrees. What do I do? I just graduated. I got my fucking literature degree. What's my next school? How do I make a fucking living? You get a job at Starbucks while you're right,

and you're trying to make a name for yourself. How do you make a name for yourself? yourself from writing. It depends on what you're trying to write. If you're writing fiction, say literary fiction, right? Something that is... Oh, I start from the scratch kit because I always get confused. Oh, it's right.

Fiction is bullshit, right? Right. Fiction, yeah. It's bullshit, right. It's bullshit, right. Nonfiction and non-bishop. All right. I got to always remember.

I get confused. It's real. Okay. So if you make shit up, you have to get really good at making up shit through short stories. and sending those out for publication. You can just try and draft your novels, but I do highly recommend if you're writing fiction, especially literary fiction,

or some genres like science fiction, does a lot of short stories too and mystery sometimes, but you can write those short pieces, get a little bit of a name for yourself, and then once you're finished with your book, your manuscript, then you have a little bit of a name to send out with that. What kind of short? What are you saying?

So if you're writing a novel, then sometimes, depending on the novel that you're writing, it helps to have short stories published. So there's a magazine or whoever you're writing for that prints short stories that has kind of at that point given the stamp of approval of, oh, this is a good enough writer for us to publish. And there are some of those magazines out there. What are their names? Oh, if you get into like a gargoyle or it, it depends. depends on what your preference is. The Los Angeles Review is one of my favorites. And there are tons of other options, depending upon what kind of stories you're writing. And this is something

that you writing memoir, you don't have to worry about. But if you're writing fiction, if you want to be the next Hemingway, let's put it that way, then you've got to start writing into these magazines and find something that connects with your style and then build up a name for yourself. Sometimes you can win awards and then people start coming to you. I have a, I have one client who wrote a short story in a local literary magazine, not even a big publication, and it got nominated for a big award and it won. And at that point, we have, you know, publishers calling me saying, I want to read whatever she has because we know she's a good writer. And so we're working on her book right now.

But, yeah, that's definitely one way to do it to kind of give yourself a leg up, make it a little bit easier. So it's just like comedy. You got a day job, like anything else. Yeah, you've got to pay the bills. You find yourself, you just write six, seven hours a day and you're off time. Yeah, you got to find the time. So it's the same fucking struggle.

Yeah, it's the same struggle, and it's, you know, you find the time you make it work. They're, I'm trying to remember the name of the writing group. I think it's the 4 a.m. writing club or something like. like that of people who wake up at 4 a.m. because that's the only time that they have. They have families or they have jobs and things that they have to take care of, but they can make some time out for themselves at 4 a.m. to put down, you know, 500 words a day or whatever they do. And you just make it happen. I know a good friend of mine, Doug Rice, is a novelist who wrote his second book literally with a pen in one hand and his baby daughter in his other hand.

And so if you want it bad enough, it's just like comedy. You've got to find a way to make it work. You've got to find a way to put the time in. I thought I had no fucking idea that you struggled that much. I thought that, let's say, I always thought like freelance writers, just wrote different articles, send them out. Is there a living in freelance writing? Oh, sure. Yeah.

A lot of people make a good living that way. And a lot of novelists will also write freelance. to supplement their income and just whatever they need to do to make it work. They want to be a writer, then they're going to be a writer. It doesn't matter what they're writing for as long as they're doing that. My wife is a fashion writer. That's what she loves to do. For the OG listeners of the church, when we first started, there was a girl living on my couch.

And she moved back to Boston, and now she's a technical writer. So she writes blogs for websites to help them with their SEO stuff. And then she does that all day every day. Yeah, blog writing, manuals, whatever you need to do. I mean, there's everything that you read has to be written by someone. And so you've got to find that job and do what you need to do. And then you can, in your spare time, do whatever you want. If you want to write to pay the bills, you can write to pay the bills.

It's going to be really hard. But there's work out there to be had. What do you look for when you sign a client? Do you ever sign somebody right out of college? Oh, sure. Yeah. Even before that, too, we had one author who's, she's working on her new book now, that first two contracts she signed, including a really lucrative one,

had to be co-signed by her parents because she was underage. She was, I think, 15 when we sold her first book and 17 when we sold her next or something like that. She's not my client. She's another at our agency. But, you know, sometimes people get a head start on it like that. and sometimes people come into it late in life, and it doesn't really matter as long as they can deliver the goods. And that's one of the wonderful things about the digital age,

is that you found that 15-year-old girl. That's amazing. Oh, yeah, she found us. She reached out to us. But, yeah, at that point, it's like, oh, we can really do something with this person. And one of the biggest changes when I worked in another agency before I started this one, And one of the biggest changes is the previous agency, we would sign a new contract for each book. And I saw that as being way too short-sighted.

So instead of signing the book, we signed the author saying, okay, what do you want to do for your career? And then what kind of long-term trajectory can we have you on? And we'll brainstorm different ideas of, you know, write this one, then write that one and stuff like that. And really make it work, make an investment in that person. So most of the time, almost always, I'm looking for someone who I can make an investment and who is going to grow rather than just one book that I can flip and make a little bit of money. I want more than that. What would somebody have to send you to tickle your fancy to be an author if they want to be represented?

Would they have to send you the manuscript? Yeah, it depends upon. the agent you're reaching out to, you have to be able to write a query letter, which is just a one-page, short bit about the book, short bit about you. And then whatever else they ask for, like, I say if you're a fiction writer, I have this on my website, and all agents have this on their websites for lit. They'll have exactly how you want submissions. So if you're writing a novel, write me a query letter and paste in the first chapter underneath. so that I can see what the book is about, but I can also see your writing style.

And if that is something that catches me, then I'll ask for more. I'll ask for the whole thing and read the whole manuscript and see, you know, does this fall apart? Or does this, you know, have some potential? And it's different for every agent. So always go to the agent's website and check them out first before you send. But you will need to have, if you're writing fiction, you'll need to have the full book finished, the whole manuscript written out. If you want to write nonfiction, then it's sold on proposals.

So you don't have to write the whole thing first. But you need at least one to three really good polished sample chapters. And then this book proposal that's like a giant sales document of, you know, what's all of your media experience, how you're going to be able to sell books and that kind of stuff. And from there, you know, we go to, you know, working with this person if we want to or on to the next one if we don't. So I'm a cynic. You're a cuck sucker. I'm a cuck. That too.

You're a lot of things. I'm too many things. Do you, like for people out there who are writing and submitting and not hearing back, do agents and stuff really read those submissions emails and like, and so like, like sometimes they feel like you're all, I'm just wasting my, I'm throwing these in. No one's ever going to see them. But they, like, people actually look at them. Yes. people actually look at them. The percentages of getting through are very slim. And it depends on who you submit to. Sometimes they have interns or first readers or, you know, some people, you know,

sometimes a college kid who's a writing student who's looking to get more experience, you know, will be trained to be a first reader for submissions and then the agent will then read after that and stuff like that. But I've always read my own submissions because I'm a bit of a control freak that way. I don't want to trust some kid who may or may not know what it takes. I'll put in that extra time to go through the inbox and pick out what I see as being good. And from there, it's just a process of, is this something that can be edited? Is it something that is, you know, what's the level of success potential there? Is it a, you know, what's the level of success potential there? Is it a subject that is that is coming gone? Are you writing about teenage vampires and stuff like that? Or are you writing something that hasn't been done to death? You know, all these things that we have to think about before we sign someone. And one of the biggest turnoffs when somebody sends your package.

Like what is the first thing you look at that you just closed the package and tossing the garbage? Well, sending me a package would be one. I tend not to open things that writers send to me just randomly. is all through the email these days. Very rarely are you going to be physically stuffing envelopes and sending them out. See, I would walk into your fucking office with the manuscript because I'm old school. I don't know anything about that. You have someone helping you out of the building at that point.

Really? But it's actually, it's a good point because that's one of the first things that we look for is do they follow submission guidelines? And so we'll spell it out, you know, on our website. Sometimes it's in guidebooks that list agents. you know, how to submit to this agent. And we are as open as we can, you know, as open as possible about that process of how do I want you to submit to me? And if, say, I were to ask for, send me your query letter in first chapter and they send me a query letter and first five chapters, then I know that at the very least they can't follow simple directions.

Right. That's why I look for us. from there, you know, it's like, well, what is the editing process going to be like? And when we have to have really in depth, you know, how to take care of this problem in the manuscript before we could send it out, you know, we have to go through the editing process. And if they can't follow simple directions and submissions, then how can I trust that they're able to do that? I don't know that person, you know, sometimes it's, it's not a perfect process, but we have to make those assumptions. That's a, it's a rough world.

Yeah. I just, you know, for years I just read books, you know, and then I think it was the the war of art got me going. Yeah. And there was something else I read and I finally started my, uh, my space thing. And that was rough. Oh my God, but I really stuck to it. Yeah.

Like I remember being at the Dallas Improv and fucking. and like being pissed because I had to work Sunday night. So I went out to the hallway computer. I had to write my blog on Facebook and the hallway computer because I wanted it out by Monday at 6th. Oh, yeah. And I outlined in those days, guys, it would take me 12 hours to write 200 fucking words. And I had shit misspelled, but I knew I was working a muscle.

Yeah. I really knew myself. That's when I came to the conclusion that all, those books are bullshit. Nobody could teach you how to write. I could give you an outline on how to write or what to write,

but you have to do the rest. And then on writing, push me over. On writing. And then I heard stories about Mitch Hedberg. I mean, Mitch Hedberg wouldn't answer his phone before 11. This was way before the drug use.

He would lock everything up. His girlfriend left to work at 8. Yeah. So he would write comedy from 8 to 11, you know? that's what it takes to be a fucking writer. You have to sit down, avoid the distractions, which is YouTube, Facebook, Twitter.

You know, that's why there's nothing on that computer, except Netflix for the flight. On that little computer, my wife got me, it's just that writing app. Yeah, it says YouTube and all that shit. I can't access it. Yeah. I'm stuck on the weekends.

That's why I bring that computer. I got Twitter on my phone, but I won't have it on Facebook, you know, because I want to commit. That was the part of it. And even today, I had a rough morning,

but I still wrote 200 words. It's okay for today. Because tomorrow, I'm going to have a cancellation, and I'll write 500 in the morning, and then 800 at 7 o'clock when I have nothing to do. That's it, that's it, man.

I'm happy that we met online. I'm happy that you've been a great writing mentor, and I'm happy that you're in town, and everything worked out. I could move the podcast, and you'd come on and just talk about writing. Any other questions you might have for the master of disaster, brother? I mean, how do you, because when Joey asked and how similar, because we talk a lot about how actors go through it,

and at least with stand-ups, they have an audience of one or two people to see if the jokes are working. Like how do you talk, when you talk to a writer who's three, four, five years in and still working at Starbucks, like what do you tell them to, like, help them continue going, or is that just self-motivation? I know it's partially self-motivation, but, like, is there any sort of silver lining

or happy rainbow you can give to a writer who's half, like, in the struggle? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, sometimes people make it right away, and sometimes it takes them, you know, a long time before they can really find that success. And so if you keep putting the work in, it's um that's what you need to do it takes different amount of time for different people and there's

no magic formula or or you know book that you have to follow this you know xyz steps and and you can become a successful writer yeah it's good to read those kind of resources but you know you have to put the work in and sometimes it takes a while and sometimes it doesn't but if you want to be a writer you know whether or not you're getting published right right every fucking day my first real experience is writing and I've been doing this for since 1995 and that's what I said that with comedy I learned that that notebook that notebook that makes you accountable yeah you know weight watches works because it makes you accountable right you know I have this thing called the jih Tzu workbook yeah where I order it on Amazon when I come home it makes me accountable it makes me going there write what I did what I learned If I drilled it, if I got tapped, what techniques I used. And I do that with everything now. And when I added it to my writing, my writing really changed.

I have one notebook that has a sticker of a devil on it. And in there, I have different outlines for stuff. And it's weird that over the years, like, Desperate Housewives. Desperate Housewise was a script that guy had on a shelf for 10 years. And he dusted it off one day. He put some adjustments and he sent it out. Excuse me, it became a huge show on ABC. That's crazy.

Because there's people who write things and they just keep adding things throughout the years. They'll have it for 10 years. They'll be sitting on it. It's like Get Shorty. That was about an author that got killed, but he had this script that was sensational and his wife, Bet Midler,

wanted fucking $3 million for this script. And everybody in town knew he had it in. This shit that takes forever, you know? I knew this. I just wanted to get the gift of sitting down every day because that's the most important thing if you're going to be a writer. And sometimes I said, you know,

over the years I would sit down and do that comedy bullshit writing, which is the guy in the coffee shop, drinking the coffee with the pen in his mouth, thinking of what to write, and then I change it all around. I get to the coffee shop and I have two notebooks. And I write a story. Me and Lee went to Austin last week.

It was hilarious. We went to fucking Papadose. Lee saw the bread. And while I'm writing that story, now a joke comes in. Yeah. So I'm never just sitting there. I'm never just sitting there. You follow me?

I'm always writing. This story that I'm writing, ain't nobody ever going to see. It doesn't matter. I'm working the muscle. Yeah, there's a lot of that in books, too. And it's just, you got to treat it like a job. You got to clock in. You got to clock in every day.

And that's how that works. You know, you have to, you know, make the time and really at the end of the day, only you can quit. You know, you can write forever, whether or not you're getting published. You know, if you want to keep writing, nobody's stopping you. You know, it's something that, yeah, you can get a little frustrated and sometimes it's a little hard or you're not selling as many books as you wanted to or your ranking is not where you want it to be. but, you know, you can bring yourself out of any hole, really. You know, and the first thing to do is to just keep writing. And sometimes if you get shot down, you know, maybe the next one will go.

We had a really successful author, actually, we just sold a new series by her. And it was her first series that didn't sell way back in the day. And her next book was a big New York Times bestseller. It was, she kept writing. She got shot down with the first one, and then the next one hit and really helped make her career. And she's written dozens of books after that. And now we came back to the first concept and said, okay, now that you're a better writer, knowing what you know now, what can you do with this?

And it just sold for quite a bit of money. And she's going to be able to write those books that she wanted to way back in the day. So, you know, it's only you can tap out. Now, let's say you're a writer, a spying writer. You're, you know, you're not struggling. I mean, you're just down on your luck. And you think you got something good. You ever see those commercials at light for Christian writers?

We're looking for stories. Are they scams? Like all those e-book writing things, I mean. Some of them are, some of them aren't. It depends on what you're trying to get. get out of it. Sometimes it's like you just need, you know, $200 to pay a certain bill. And there's this, you can submit to an anthology that will pay you $200. And you don't then get rights to the story after that, but you solved your problem. You know, it's whatever you're trying to do. And I'm not

going to say, you know, turn that down unless you want to do something else with that story, you know, and it's your choice. Do you want, do you want to maybe, you know, be able to submit submit that to a magazine and maybe win an award and launch your career or do you really need the $200. And I'm fine with, you know, people who need to write to make a buck. You know, whether it's doing that or it's getting a job technical writing or whatever you need to do, you know, that's, if you want to be a writer, you can write. one of the top three books you would recommend for an aspiring writer just to top three books that they don't have to waste their money in a thousand fucking books get a notebook get the

three books Gordon tells you and get the right and get the fucking feather with the ink cock sucker the three books you know man it depends on there's so many out there as you know it really depends on on your personality like I sent you the the war of art for writing writers. And that's not even one of my clients. You know, that's just a book that I know. It was a great book, guys. War of Art for writers, completely different than when we've spoken about before. Yeah. Red cover, easy read, very to the fucking point. And that's what got me in a thousand words a day. Yeah, James Scott Bell and he knows his stuff. What's his name? James Scott Bell, he's written several other books too. And sometimes when you find a writer like that who is able to connect with you and

and instruct you like other writing books don't. You know, that's oftentimes they'll have another book. You check out and see what else he wrote. Say if he wrote a book on, on setting and you're having trouble with setting, then, you know, you know you can go to this guy and he'll help you out.

And sometimes these people are also writing coaches who can work with you and help you to, you know, fix up certain areas through your writing. If you need that sort of, thing and if you have the money to spend on that. Again, not everybody else needs to do that. But, you know, I would say if you do find a book that connects with you, see what else the other, see what else he has. So he would be good. On writing you brought up is another good one. And that's one that's just kind of no nonsense. Right, right to the heart of things. He is, he will lay it out for you. You know,

his process, what he went through, and what he found worked for him. And, you know, take all of this with a grain of salt, you know, when, if someone is telling you how to write, it's how it worked for them. And they may have theories and things that maybe they teach in class. And it's something that they found out works. So it's a good thing that you're asking for three, because, you know, if you just go to one, then you'll get a very narrow view of what works. Right.

No, you have to get three. Yeah. Like I said, you have to, it's good, even with the biography. I read three biographies because I see three different points of view. And what was important, what point that author wanted to get out there? That's what you learned from reading those type of books. And what's your third writing book? My third, I could name Drop a Client and help her sell some more books, Nina Amir.

If it's good, let's go. Nina Amir has some writing books that are fantastic. What's the name? Nina Amir. Nina Amir. Yeah, A-M-I-R, she wrote a new book called Creative Visualization for Writers that if you are not so much a reading learner as you are like an active learner or a visual learner, that's the kind of book that you want to get because it's more of more of exercises and drawing and making lists. And it's very active. You mark up the book and you do a whole bunch of different things.

and that will help you kind of connect to writing that way if that's how you learn. So that one's great. Anne Lamott's Bird by Bird is another one that's great. There are just so many that are out there that you can find something that you'll connect with. And at the very least, it'll be enlightening. You'll get someone's point of view of what works for them and help you out. So it's good stuff. Well, people, if you think of being a writer, I hope this helped you out today.

Gordon's helped me out. He's a very fascinating guy. I would give you his email, but fuck you. You'll be torturing with fucking questions. Write a book and get back to me. And then I'll hook you up with fucking Gordon. But Gordon, I want to thank you again for coming on, just enlighting. I wanted to ask these questions.

I wanted to ask for a few people. There's a couple of writers that hit me up with questions. I don't know. I'm lost. I can't say Yeah, you can tell them what works for you But, you know, they're going to have to find out what works for them And, you know, the

The biggest thing that I could give as far as like Words of Wisdom or what have you is, you know, if you want to write, write, don't worry so much about How other people are going to perceive it Or is it going to get published or whatever There are many reasons to write, you know, your memoir, for example, even if you don't want anyone else to read it. You know, it's an experience.

It helps you change. It, you learn stuff about yourself. And, you know, I say, you know, often at writers conferences, and I meet different aspiring writers that, you know, everyone should write memoir, even though, maybe not everyone should publish it. It's the truth, though. It's a true. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you learn. It's a great writing exercise anyway.

Yeah. One of the first writing exercises, Doug Stannell, he goes, write a story about yourself, write the story of your life. Oh, yeah. And, oh, it was a mess back then. I found those notebooks years ago. Brother, thank you very much for going on.

You mean the world to me. Likewise. You've inspired me, and I'm not going to die until I write this fucking book if it kills me. We'll get it out. Let me give some shoutouts real quick. We'll get the fuck out of here. We'll close with Tony Bennett.

And they'll like that. Nobody gets their fucking feelings. that, like I was telling you at the beginning of the show, home delivery food services are growing, but one of the best ones in the country is definitely Blue Apron. They're the leading meal kit delivery service in the U.S., and while many people know that, well, what we do, many don't know about the types of meals.

You can cook with Blue Apron. Okay, you're not just having burgers for dinners. You're making short-rid burgers with a hoppy cheddar sauce and a pretzel bun. You're preparing seared states, with thine pan sauce and mashed potatoes. I mean, this is the type of meals you'll be, and you'll be learning how to cook,

which is the most important thing and it all under 45 minutes and without a trip to the grocery store because their mission is to make incredible home cooking accessible to everybody. And they achieved this by supporting a more sustainable food system, setting the highest standards for ingredients and building a community of home chefs.

Now, they offered three different, for meal plans. A two-person meal plan, a family meal plan, and ready for this one, a wine plan. Six bottles of wine from Renaud renowned winemakers delivered monthly. Well, listen, let's cut this shit. Let's cut to the chase here. Lee, what did you get in the mail? Oh my God, I have three delicious ones. I can't wait to cook. I have steaks and steak and cheesy mashed potatoes. I have roasted chicken and rosemary vegetables, and then I have Middle Eastern baked chicken and rice. I can't wait to cook all three. Look at the menu this month.

Again, it's strip steak with potato, spicy maple collard green, a steakhouse favorite inspired with a delicious twist, a chili infused maple syrup. Chili infused maple syrup with incredible ingredients and chef-designed recipes. Blue Apron lets you see the power of the food that you can cook. All right, now they'll deliver proportionate ingredients and step-by-seps recipes right to your door. The menu changes every week based on what's in season

and is designed by Blue Aprons in-house culinary team. Blue Apron offers 12 new recipes each week. 12 new recipes and customers can pick two, three, or four based on what fits their schedule. Blue Apron also sends only non-GMO ingredients with meat and no added hormones, okay? Now, here's the truth. You're going to learn how to cook. You're going to learn how to save money.

But most importantly, you're going to, It's a family. You want your family to grow, you grow, you cook together, and everybody has a good time. Some of the bets part of your day happen over dinner. So we want you to share that perspective, okay? So Blue Apron is taking care of the family. The church, listeners, by $30 off your first order, if you visit Blue Apron. Dot com slash Joey.

$30 off your first order. So check out this week's menu and get $30 off your first Blue Apron order at Blue Apron.com. slash Joey. Again, blueapron.com slash Joey. Blue Apron, a better way to cook. It's probably the best way to cook right now. If you're busy and if you've got a hectic life and if you want to eat healthy and if you want to learn how to cook, Blue Apron is the way to go. Again, that's blueapen.com slash Joey. A better way to cook. Number two, bitches, it's time to get paid. It's Super Bowl time. The big game is here and it's time to cash in big and bet the game at my bookie.ag. My bookie is the industry-leading online sportsbook, and its players enjoy the fastest.

Ready for this? Fastest payouts in the business when they win. I would only recommend the service that's been good to me and our listeners. That's why I urge you to make your way to my bookie. You know why? You win, they pay. No drama, no hassles. You're wasting your time betting anywhere else, all right?

You're putting a betting with three monkeys. You don't even know if you're going to get paid. They even have an in-game live betting so you can place a bet after the kickoff. Did you hear that? After the kickoff. So you got a hunch on who's going to win the coin toss or the Gatorade or who's going to score first or who's going to get off safety. Go to mybooky.orgie.org. Join now and score free cash to place your Super Bowl wager on the house.

Right now, my booking is giving away up to a thousand. $1,000 to every new player. You're like Joey Howe. Ready? Sign up today to score an instant. 50% bonus on your first deposit. That's right. If you join today with a yardstick, that's $100, you'll get $150 bankroll to play with.

Use promo code church, C-H-U-R-C-H to activate the offer, all right? You play, you win, you get paid. Mybooky.orgie. Again, I want to thank Blue Apron. I want to thank my bookie. and I want to thank my main man writing mentor and dear friend Gordon Warnock

It's been a great podcast Lee Syatt I'll see you Wednesday Gordon I'll see you fucking whenever but we always talk And I'm really happy you got a chance To come on the show See our office and partake with us

On what we do Thank you for your advice And your knowledge over the years I will have a book out for you cuck-suckers By the end of the year If Gordon fucking wants it Lee, kick that mule. We're just going to close

at Tony Bennett. I'll see you guys Wednesday night. Tip-top Magoo. Ready to go. Don't forget February 22nd to the 20, whatever the fuck.

Comedy Works, Denver. But my 55th birthday party, it's just a, I want to have comedy show. It's February 17th, 730 at the Ice House. I'll see you either of those places. If not, I'll see you Wednesday.

Thank you, Gordon. Thank you, Lee. Stay black. Have a great fucking day. want to be around to pick up the pieces when somebody breaks your heart some somebody twice as smart as I'm a somebody who will swear to be true as you used to do with me you to learn that misery loves company

wait and see I want to be around see how he does it when he breaks your heart two bits if a puzzle fits so fine and that's when I'll discover

that revenge is sweet as I sit there applauding from a front row seat when somebody breaks your heart like you