The Code To Winning - INSIDE AMERICA's MOST ADVANCE JETS - AIRFORCE VETEREN || RICHARD COPP || EPISODE 023

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH USA AIRFORCE VETEREN - EPISODE 023   On this episode of The Code To Winning, we sit down with Chief Master Sergeant (Ret.) Richard "Rick" Copp, a decorated U.S. Air Force veteran whose military career spans over two decades of elite service and leadership across the globe. From repairing F-111s in the early days of his career to overseeing production for some of the world’s most advanced fighter jets—including the F-15, F-16, and working with the prestigious USAF Thunderbirds—Chief Ricks’s journey is a masterclass in precision, discipline, and resilience.   He capped his 24-year service as the Chief of Quality Assurance for the 57th Wing, leaving behind a powerful legacy of excellence and mentorship. After retiring from the military in 1997, Chief Copp continued to shape the aerospace industry through senior roles at The Boeing Company and Lockheed Martin, where he contributed to critical programs including the F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning II, and C-5M Super Galaxy—pioneering engineering, quality control, and training solutions at the highest level. Today, he’s far from slowing down. Richard serves as a volunteer docent at the Hill Aerospace Museum, preserving aviation history and inspiring future generations, while also giving back as a Teacher’s Aide at the Utah Military Academy.   In this powerful interview, we explore: His rise from Avionics Technician to Chief Master Sergeant What it means to maintain composure and excellence under pressure Stories from working with the Thunderbirds and global deployments Lessons learned building and maintaining America’s most iconic fighter jets His insights on mentorship, leadership, and life after military service Why giving back continues to be part of his personal mission Whether you're a veteran, a leader in any field, or someone looking for the blueprint to resilience and service-driven success—this conversation will stay with you

These and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Code 2 winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Again, we have another amazing guest, a very educational interview we're about to have right now this morning in our podcast studio. He goes by the name of Rick Kopp, Richard Kopp as well, just to give you a brief introduction of our guest today. Rick is a retired chief master sergeant of the U.S. Air Force, with over four decades of experience in military aviation, engineering, and leadership. Rick's journey began in 1973 as an F-11 avionics technician serving across the U.S., England, and beyond. Over the years, he played pivotal roles in maintaining and managing some of the most advanced fighter jets, including the F-16, F-15. even serving as quality assurance superintendent are for the USAF Thunderbirds, specializing in F-22 quality assurance and manufacturing as well.

So without further ado, our guest today, Rick Kopp. How you doing, Rick? Doing pretty good, KG. Rick, very grateful for you being in the podcast. Grateful for the opportunity for us discussing, and when I met you the first time at the Aircraft Museum as well. give us a brief introduction of who you are as well and just how you started your journey? So I grew up in upstate New York. That was the first 18 years of my life, Elmira, New York, to be

precise. Shortly after graduating high school, I decided to join the Air Force because at that time we had a military draft. So I was registered for the draft. And rather than let chance take rather than take a chance at being thrust into the army, I decided to join the Air Force. So I enlisted in February 1973, attended basic training in San Antonio, Texas at Lackland Air Force Base, and then followed from there to my tech school in Illinois, Shunut Air Force Base, which is now closed, by the way. And that's why I learned the fundamentals of what I was going to be doing, working on. the F-11 as an automatic flight control and instrument specialist, which I did for 12 years. Awesome.

And so when you enlisted in 1973, was it always the Air Force or was it like Navy and option or military and Army and so forth? Oh, yeah. I could have joined any of the services. What made you choose the Air Force? That's a good question. So I wasn't looking forward to spending my time on a boat where you don't see. land for months at a time.

So that ruled out the Navy and the Coast Guard, although the Coast Guard doesn't go out very far for very long. And I didn't want to get shot at. You know, we had a war going on in Vietnam, and the Army and the Marines got shot at a lot. That didn't appeal to me. Okay. So that kind of nerded it down to the Air Force where we send the pilots out to get the

officers go get shot at, not the enlisted folks. Okay. That's also. It's a survival thing. Now, I like that. I think that's when I met you, and I felt like if ever were to enter the military, I felt like Air Force was the way to go, which is very ironic for me personally, because I'm not the biggest fan of heights.

Matter of fact, post 9-11, one of my big fears was actually just being stuck in an airplane and it like crashing as well, considering all the events that have been happening right now, which is, like I said, ironic because I prefer the Air Force over the Air Force over the Air Force over. the Navy. I prefer the Air Force over the, like, you know, the army and so forth. But it's just my personality, it contradicts like my fears as well. Did you ever

have any phobia or fear of heights as well, person for you? Oh yeah, I think most people are afraid of heights, but flying is, I'm not afraid of flying. It's probably the safest mode of transportation. Even in 2025. But look how many people fly. You know, the number of incidents is

is relatively small compared to, well, let's say, for instance, the highway travel in an automobile. I mean, tens of thousands of people die every year. Nah, that's facts. And just even historical context of that, one thing I found very fascinating, obviously, when you look at, like, the Industrial Revolution in England, when you look at, like, trains, and you look at the automobile, Henry Ford, and even in Germany, the Mercedes, guy and the history of the Wright brothers and them flying obviously like the first airplane. Can you just talk a bit about that?

I love that historical context so much. He hit me in my weak spot, but I do know a little. Of course, they first flew sustained flight in December of 1903, at least I think it was December. The Wright brothers had a bicycle shop. You know, neither one of them graduated in high school, but they had mechanical aptitude, and they decided they wanted to learn to fly. They were following the theories from a couple predecessors, if I recollect, it was Lillianthal and Shanoot. And during their research, they discovered that their data was wrong. So they created their own data.

built a wind tunnel. They did all those cool things back then. And on their aircraft, you know, to drive the propeller, they used, you know, bicycle gear, sprockets and chains. So they were pretty inventive. But, you know, it's been, it was 59 years between the time the Wright brothers first flew, actually a little less than 59 years, to where Lockheed first flew the A-12 CIA spy plane, which was capable of flying at 80,000 feet, more than three times, the speed of sound. And that's pretty incredible in that short period of time. But, you know, it's been more than 63 years since that event. So imagine what we might have now that's not revealed to the public.

I mean, the president just revealed last week that we have the F-47, the next-generation air superiority fighter. which will be built by Boeing. And I think that's going to be pretty incredible. It's just very fascinating because the amount of flights that, like what you just mentioned right now, yes, the news often does the coverage of accidents, but it's usually like point something percent considering the amount of accidents that occur every single day, just on the I-15 that came across one literary in my way here as well.

And with technology, I don't know how. how you interpret the electrical incorporation of electrical planes in the future. Do you think it's going to be a problem as well, considering how things have been going? Well, you tell me, how many times do you have to charge your car? I want to wait from Idaho today. There's going to be no charging stations up there. No, I think for, you know, short, short,

air taxi type stuff, they're already using them, right? So for short hops, that's probably pretty good as long as you have, you know, redundant systems. So if you lose an engine, you're still not going to, not going to crash. But, you know, you talked about the whole fear of heights thing. I'm not actually afraid of heights. It does spook me like if I get to the edge of a cliff and look down,

but I don't worry about even falling. It's that sudden stop at the end that concerns me. But flying in an aircraft, my wife, my wife was very hesitant to fly, and she doesn't like the fact that she's along for a ride and she can't get off. You know, but there's not much you can do if that plane's going down. You know, the only thing you can do is make yourself right with God at that moment, right? And I think that's another thing is that every time closer towards 9-11, I always just seem to like do a recollection of watching the videos,

listening to like the phone calls, knowing that like people are just inside. I think it was Flight 75 or something like that, the one that was going to the, to Washington, D.C. and ended up crashing in the Philadelphia planes as well. Listen to those phone calls before they took ahead of the plane. I think people are not necessarily afraid of heights or just afraid that they can't, it's out of their control when there's like nothing left to do.

You know what I'm saying? It's about crashing. So I think that's my fear because when I drive a car, I know that the accidents are way higher, but there's an option I can stop at any time. I'm in full control. I can get out the car, worst case scenario, you know, so. But you're not in full control. You're in full control yourself and your vehicle. You're not in full control for everybody else on the road.

Precisely. And that's what causes accidents. Precisely. I couldn't have said it better. Now, I was very fascinated. Like when we met you and, you know, you were describing in detail and the passion you had with the engineering behind all these aircrafts. I want to just touch base as we start right now

and talk about the F-11, the avionics technician. What was the biggest challenge that you faced when working on this very complex aircraft? Well, the biggest challenge is understanding how it works. And probably the most complex system I worked on was the integration between a terrain following radar and the automatic flight control system. So, you know, we're touching on self-driving cars right now, right?

That's this point in history. So this plane was designed and first built in the 1960s, and it was already capable. I mean, we've already had autopilot, but this particular system, you can do a blind letdown from 30,000 feet at night to 200 feet off the deck and fly nap of the earth at 1.2 mok. with hands off. So the airplane's flying itself at very high speed. That's interesting. And the whole purpose was so that it could fly below enemy radar with a lethal payload. Wow.

And the nice thing like it's, I mean, it's known as the F11, I think, was the first of its kind at that time. Everything kind of like came after that, right? And so when everything kind of branched out, what's the difference between like that, that F-11 back in the 1960s compared to what we have right now. Technology. You know, today's aircraft, we have stealth, right? They're basically invisible to radar. So it's really hard to defend against them

and the ability to fire a missile from a long ways away at an enemy aircraft that can't see you. So think about it. If we were to have a battle right now, you and I, and you had to wear a blindfold. And I had a long stick and you had a short one. Indefensible. Precisely.

So that's what we have. The technology we have today, the computing power alone, your cell phone has more computing power than the F-111 had. Right. And it has several computers, but not near capable of what your cell phone can do. Awesome. And I like that.

And I'm glad you mentioned that because I think Steve Jobs even released the first iPhone, I think it was iPhone 4 in 2007. It had more technology than the spacecraft that took Neil Armstrong to the moon in 1969. And what's crazy and fascinating speaking about technology is the fact that we are so much more advanced. But the period that humans went to the moon was only relatively between 1969 and 1973. It was a four-year span, and we have never touched the moon since then. And likely with aircraft and aviation, the technology just seems to be a bit more advancing with how things have been incorporated in today's world as well, which kind of leads to what

I want to talk about. So you've worked across multiple locations, including New Hampshire, England, and Idaho. How did operational environment differ in these places, and how did it shape your career? That's an interesting question. So I started at P's Air Force Base in New Hampshire, which is part of Strategic Air Command, which no longer exists. But that's for the strategic, you know, long-range bombing. So the FB 111, which is what I worked there, was capable of reaching the Soviet Union with a nuclear payload. And a completely different mission.

We didn't deploy. We didn't go to other bases to fly our aircraft. We flew from home station. They did their bombing runs, came back. And in 1975, after about a year and a half in New Hampshire, I went to England. That's the United States Air Force and Europe Command. A little different mission. Our mission there was Cold War to keep the Soviets from invading into Western Europe.

And so we were more of a tactical outfit, low-level. lethal payloads, and we had an alert set up there, which was way more robust and complicated, I think, than the one in Strategic Air Command. So we were always playing war games, which involved, you know, wearing chemical warfare gear, helmets, flack jackets, and that kind of stuff while we're doing our job. So we practice as we were going to fight. Wow. Long shifts, you know, 12-hour shifts for a week or two at a time, seven days a week.

And the Cold War just ended like in 1989, you know, with President Ronald Reagan, you know, the breaking down the wall as well. And just looking back at that, obviously tensions happening between the United States and USSR, now flying these, like these bombs, like what were the, risks that were implicated for like the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the last thing we've flew with practice bombs okay typically we would load live weapons but unless you're going to drop them you don't fly with them okay or unless there's a threat that you might want to carry them for but when they were on we had a

nuclear alert commitment so we had nuclear weapons loaded on aircraft ready to go and we would start those up pretty much on a daily basis to make sure all systems are go in the event that you know the hammer drops and you have to go to war that's fascinating it's scary to think about it because obviously the events that are happening today and like back then as well and um i would assume like it wasn't at a little scary not really okay because i mean we're working on airplanes right that's what we do so we're just interested in getting the mission done getting the aircraft fixed, ready, available for operations to be able to utilize it for whatever they need.

You know, most of what they did was practice bombing with, with pretend bombs, not high-explosive, small bombs, but, you know, same idea. You go hit the target, but the weapons we have nowadays are laser-guided. So think about the accuracy. You know, you're dropping a dumb bomb. It's going where you threw it. dropping a laser guided weapon, it's going where the laser's pointing. Wow.

And the only thing I can relate with that, with everything you're saying, you know, the brain often associates with what it can relate with as closely as possible. And in my situation, it has to be Top Gun Maverick. So please correct me if I'm wrong. When you kept saying with the target, what is it's very similar to that, where you have a target and you're flying and you have to like try and aim for, that. It was a very similar situation to that, right? Yeah. Okay. But with lasers, it's not not which building you want the bomb to hit. It's which window you want the bomb to go through.

Okay. Okay. Now that makes perfect sense. So it's a level of accuracy. Awesome stuff. And now, the more I read like your resume and your accomplishments, it's just very fascinating because four decades just means the more experience you keep gaining. It's just it's breathtaking. And that's why you're teaching what you're teaching today. Now, as a leader overseeing aircraft readiness, what were some of the toughest decisions you had to make in high-stake situations? It would probably be related to short-notice tasking or changes in the flying schedule and tasking

where you have to where I would have to get the aircraft reconfigured for a different mission at the drop of a hat. And one such opportunity comes to mind when I was stationed at Torhoen Air Base in Spain with the F-16s. And we got a last-minute tasking from higher headquarters on a Friday afternoon. So we had to, the aircraft we'd configured for Monday morning as flying schedule, we had to reconfigure them for the special tasking mission and launched the aircraft out. And they were actually doing a competition against other bases in Europe that were doing the same thing. And we won the competition. But it took a team effort.

You know, I was, I led the maintenance team, but my weapons loaders, my crew chiefs, and my specialists, they all did an amazing job getting everything done in a timely manner so that we could, I think we had, if I remember correctly, we had four hours notice. So on four hours, we had to reconfigure those aircraft, launch them and get them across the target. Wow. Wow. And I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to ask about like the, what was the differences between working both in Spain and in Korea as well with the work that you were doing? Oh, a big difference. So in Spain, we had three fighter squadrons. And each fighter squadron had a forward operating location for our contingencies. and there's no secret there what they were. One squadron deployed to Aviano Air Base in Spain, or in Italy, and then the other two squadrons deployed to Insulik Air Base in Turkey. Okay.

And we would deploy there frequently two or three, sometimes four times a year, to go practice our war games. We weren't allowed to do that type activity in Spain due to our NATO agreement with that country. So we went there and that was pretty intense, a little bit different when I was stationed in Korea because South Korea, the Republic of Korea, South Korea, is right across a demilitarized zone from North Korea, a country that had attacked South Korea back in the 1950s. So we're on constant alert over there, constantly playing war games. And we considered ourselves the pointing end of the spear.

You know, you're right there right across from the enemy. I mean, they're literally miles away. Not hundreds of miles or thousands of miles. So it was pretty intense. It was a one-year tour, and it went pretty fast because we're always busy. Wow. No, now it's, it's, aviation is, it's, it's such a big topic, you know, and it's so funny that like, even when we, when we spend time with you, what Richard was telling me the other time is like, he only gave you a fraction of what even goes into these things, because it's such a nuanced topic. There's just so much that goes into these various, you know, topics such as aviation. And it's just, which kind of leads to my next question, like, how much is actually even revealed to the public. in terms of like percentage-wise

if you're to guesstimate less than 10% Wow Yeah it's You know Is it for safety concerns and purpose No it's just you don't really have a need to know Okay

Right I mean the things I discussed with you You and your friends When you came through the museum Were things that are You know there's public domain You can find out all that stuff Through Google Or chat GPT or whatever you used

to research stuff. But, you know, probably anything I know that I couldn't, I know where I knew that I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten anyway, but, I mean, there's just so much to know. When it comes to how an aircraft operates and what it does, you can find a lot of that stuff. I found some pretty good YouTube channels with really detailed engineering explanations on things.

and I use those to teach the class I teach. Videos help them understand things better than the written word, I think. Now, I like that. I like that. So during your time, though, in military service, was there a mission operation of an aircraft that you maintained that happened to have been in military combat as well, combat scenarios?

Other than practice, no. Okay. No, just because I was never stationed somewhere where combat was going on. I mean, I served during combat efforts. I just wasn't my unit that was in combat. Like during Desert Storm, I was in a training wing in Panama City, Florida, at Tyndall Air Force Base. You know, our mission there was to prepare pilots for doing what they do. you know, train pilots to go do combat missions.

And we did have a continuity there during Desert Storm. Our engine shop was a backup for one of the F-15 frontline unit out of Langley Air Force Base, the first fighter wing. So instead of doing engine maintenance in theater, they would send their engines back to us to be overhauled, repaired and then we would send them good engines so if they had an engine problem in flight during combat they could just take one engine out put another one in and then we would do the repairs okay no and it's just i'm actually glad to hear that because um the reason why i feel like yes the the united

states a part a large part of government spending goes to the military but i would assume it's mainly for preparation rather than actual combat there's like a lot of lot of stuff that's done to try and maintain. I know that one of the biggest things that President Trump stood for between his 20s first term was he felt like the military equipment was a little outdated considering like the time and he stressed on the importance of getting better equipment, getting latest technology, having just to try and be more prepared as well. And so would you say percentage wise there's way more preparedness than actual combat in all forms of like military or is it just in in um no absolutely okay yeah absolutely

readiness and preparation it's this is what the military is all about be be prepared for war i love that but you know this better than i do they often say that world war three is going to be a nuclear war like is there even a point to all these like guns and all the different stuff and everyone's got like nuclear weaponry you know i think about that why is war even necessary? Because we have evil people on the planet, right? I like to look at the United States as a peacekeeper, not a warmaker. But that's why we can't allow World War III to happen.

And we've used those weapons once. We should never have to use them again. I mean, whoever fires the first nuclear weapon, it's going to be all over, Armageddon. That's sad. Hopefully we'll keep it to, you know, handheld firearms and cannons and things, but that's why I don't, I'm not a warrior anymore, but if the call comes, I'll go.

And as a religious person myself and with my beliefs and the scriptures often says, you know, it's the nature and disposition of almost all men as soon as they get a little authority as they suppose they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. And you see it a lot in terms of like leaders around the world, like the need for power and like the unrighteous use of power and and the question you just impose right now, why would they even be a need for war? sending innocent young men to go fight in combat because of two people that could have resolved it over a phone call or came to a deal.

It's just sad when you think about like just 1914 to 1918, World War I, 1935, 1939 to 1945 World War II. But like even the wars in between then, like it's also unnecessary. It's just again, power, greed. And there's always something. a motive behind why people do what they do. Do you want to talk a bit about that again? Not really.

Okay. All right. You hit the nail on the head. I don't think I need to add to that without stepping across political lines. Okay. Yeah, which we said we're going to avoid. So, right. During your time in service, I already asked this one,

what was the most intense or high pressure moment in your military career? Well, it wasn't really a moment. It was a period of time. Okay. And I've said this for a long time. So 12 years of doing mostly the same job, working on the avionic systems on the F11, I get pretty good at it. You know, 12 years of experiences a lot on one aircraft. It was after that. So in 1985, when I was promoted to Master Sar,

I'm no longer a technician. I'm a manager. From that point in time, 40 years ago, till today, I've been out of my comfort zone on everything I've done. Every job I've done has been a challenge that I didn't already have all the skills for. So I was learning on the fly for 40 years, basically. So every job I did after that, you know, going from F11, Steps, 16s, for instance, and I wasn't working on planes. I was managing people who do that.

And then from there to Spain, a whole new, still F-16s, but a whole new F-16. And we deployed frequently. I actually had the opportunity, my first opportunity to be in charge of a deployment. We took a group of aircraft, people, and equipment to Greece, to a bear base in Greece. And a bear base is a base that doesn't have all the equipment you need. to do your job. And I handled that along with the project officer and a logistician. We got everything we needed there, did our mission, got everything back. And that's a lot of work. And there's a lot that can go wrong. So having handled that as a young master's starting, I was pretty

proud of myself. But then from there, where to go from there, to Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida, a training base. That was different, and that was another new aircraft for me, the F-15. And it was also my longest Air Force assignment. I was there for five years. And then to go from there to the Thunderbirds. A huge challenge, very fast-paced, a lot of type A personalities, but also at the same time, very rewarding and very exciting.

It was really cool to be part of the high-performing team like that. And unfortunately, my three-year controlled tour turned into 14 months because while I was there, I got promoted to Chief Master Sergeant. And there was no slot for me at that point. So I had to go, you know, to the operational test and evaluation, developmental test and evaluation squad. And F-16's there at Nellis Air Force Base. And that was, again, another challenge, mostly because I didn't know what we were working on. It's all new stuff, and we test the operational test and evaluation test that aircraft with every possible configuration and every possible scenario. And there were a lot of classified things on that program that I didn't know nothing about because by the time I got my clearance, I moved on to my last Air Force job, running the quality assurance at the 57th wing.

and then from there to Boeing F-22, cutting edge, developing the avionics training for the Air Force on the F-22. From there to Lockheed Martin and Marietta, Georgia, again on F-22, most of my time there, was as a manufacturing engineer on the final assembly line. A new thing to me. So every job I've done

There's been a new challenge With not having all the tools necessary To perform a job So I was learning on the job And A lot of the time It was like Trying to take a drink of water

Through a fire hose You know there's a lot coming at you But you can only swallow so much of it But I did it And here I am I love that I love that so much. And one of the things actually, which is segueing to the question I wanted to ask you,

when you talk about the Thunderbirds and Type A personality, very, very fast pace, what it was, what would you say? Because every time I think of Thunderbirds, it's just, it's more like my generation. That's what, like, kind of excites us, you know, just like that kind of like, that form of aviation as well. What was the most rewarding part of working with the Thunderbirds? And also, how did that differ from the United States? Air Force more like maintenance roles as well? And, in fact, can you explain the Thunderbirds quickly?

So it's the Air Force's aerial demonstration squadron. And they're a tool for recruiting. They perform air shows around the world in front of the public with the purpose of trying to inspire young people to join our United States Air Force. So basically you're a recruiter. You know, we did some, we do public relations events at schools hospitals, things like that, to

try to inspire younger people to come do what we do. And it's pretty amazing. It's well choreographed. I mean, you've watched them do air shows, haven't you? I've watched them. One of the things that stands out when you say that it's just how well-coordinated

they are. Everything is so well-coordinated and how they fly and just in line. and how it's assembled in order. It's just very majestic. It's like the majestic part of aviation for me. It's just, it's not a one-man show. It can be every now and there,

but like it's just everything is just so well coordinated. And so like when you say fast pace, when you say Thunderbirds, you kind of like spiked me up over there, you know. So I just love talking about the Thunderbirds. So I think the show season I did in 1995, I think we did 65 show sites that year. So that means our home base was Nellas Air Force Base in Las Vegas.

So you have four months of practice season because half of the pilots swap out every year. So it's a two-year tour for pilots. So from November to March, you're practicing. And they start out, you know, flying in simple formations. And they eventually moved to more complex formations and get closer to. together and it's very well time very well organized it's a lot of work for the guys who do it but all the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes you know there's probably i think now they have like 130 enlisted people that support that team doing everything from the from video to audio

to photography to the different specialties to work on the airplanes there's an air show coordinator, we have admin folks. It's a flight surgeon. It's just a whole bunch of people working together as a team to make it happen. So it's probably the same now as when I was on a team. Our week started on Thursday. We would deploy to the next show site. So getting from Nellis to wherever the show was, was Thursday. Friday was a practice day. They'd do a practice air show. Saturday and Sunday where the live air shows where the public's invited.

Monday was returned to Nellis. So you're packing up the cargo aircraft getting everything on board that launching the aircraft now, jumping on a cargo aircraft and making it back to Nellis. Tuesday was practice day. Wednesday was our weekend. So we got

Wednesday off. And then back on the road on Thursday. Wow. So it goes like that for eight months. Now not every not every person travels on every show except the officers all the officers go to every show and the show line

the crew cheese on the one through six jet they go every show and then would you say then in terms of trying to like relate it and make a comparison with the Navy would you say the Thunderbirds would be the equivalent to like Navy seal or is it like how experienced you have to be

I'm trying to find where it's like viewers could understand no the Navy has a demonstration team as well. They're called the Blue Angels. Okay. They're the Navy's team. They're blue and gold. You know, the Thunderbirds of the Air Force are the nation's team because they're red, white, and blue. America's team. Oh, okay.

It's a friendly rivalry. No, I don't know if you watch. I had a Navy SEAL guy in my podcast as well, and they're very passionate about it. Like, they have a very stigma of like, we are the best one of military. Nothing comes close to us. And when they're Navy SEAL, it's a different kind of ego that comes and it's involved with that as well. You know, two of my former bosses are novelists. And can I plug for him here?

Yeah, absolutely. Dave Trevinsky is one. He was my production engineering director when I was on F-22 manufacturing engineer in Marrietta, Georgia. He's written several novels, really good novelists. I have, I think, most of the books he's written. And then Tom, Tom Belial, Tom was my senior manager when I was a F-22 customer service engineer in Marietta. He's written two, three, I think he's written three novels. I just finished reading one two days ago.

It's called Taking the Dream spinner. And coincidentally, it's a, I won't tell you a lot about it. There's a cruise ship, and the Navy SEALs are involved. in this thing. It's pretty intense, but just following, you know, of course it's fiction,

but he did his research. He talked to Navy SEALs, and the stuff they do is just otherworldly. I mean, they are so precise. I mean, have you ever watched a documentary

on their training they go through? No, I just read David Goggins's books and stuff. Most people go to Navy SEAL training. Don't, don't graduate. It's for the, the strongest, the most psychologically fit,

the most physically fit people on the planet. Yeah, they stress on that. They say like in a Navy SEAL is like one of the hardest form of like army, military to get into in the United States. Yes. And they said by far as well. So that's interesting. And I kind of like, I love everything we're talking about.

I also want to kind of like stress, talk a bit about like the Air Force. If somebody wanted to, you know, go in the Air Force, What's the first step would you say they have to try and go do, like to try and jump me and get into the Air Force? The first thing they'll probably do is go talk to a recruiter. Okay. So we have recruiting stations all over the country. Without a pilot license or anything, would you have to be a pilot?

Oh, if you wanted to be a pilot, that's a whole different thing. But just to join the Air Force, you just go talk to a recruiter. Okay. Or they'll come talk to you. Okay. You know, I think they still visit schools. But if I were a young person just graduating in high school and I was thinking, about the military, I would go talk to somebody who's been in the military, pick their brain.

And is there an age limit to start in the... Yeah, 17 with parents' permission. And there's no maximum after then, right? Oh, there's maximum. I think 35 is the limit. Okay. But sometimes they'll even waive that because of needs. Like for the past four years, recruiting, the recruitment.

Recruiters aren't meeting their quotas. Enough people weren't interested in joining them, but that changed somewhere around November last year. So I think they're meeting their quotas now. You say we're not going political, Rick. Why are you going? I'm not. Well, you know, I have a part-time gig at the Aerospace Museum where I'm a docent. And my mission there, our mission there, is to educate, inspire, and entertain.

as I think I was successful at doing with you and your two friends. But that's another way. I mean, we talk to young people there all the time, and that's what we do. I mean, we try to get them enthused about it. I mean, you talk to almost any military pilot and asking him him or her, what inspired you, it's quite likely it was an air show with the Thunderbirds

or the Blue Angels. You know, as a little kid, probably saw that. I was talking to, oh, my friend I told you, Rob Russ, who did a podcast. He was a Thunderbird maintainer back when I was, and he crossed training to be a C-130 Hercules flight engineer, saw quite a bit of combat, and then he flew for the airlines. And he decided to become a pilot when he was a maintainer on the Thunderbirds. He got a backseat ride in an F-16, and he said it was that moment I knew that I was going to be a pilot. So he did all his ground training, got his pilot license while he was on the Thunderbirds

and finally achieved his goal of being an airline pilot. Wow. I love stories like that. I want to also kind of respect your time. I only have three more questions left, but I love this one a lot considering veterans that serve for the country as well. So what advice would you give the veterans transition? from military service to civilian careers, particularly in aviation or, like, defense industries.

What advice would you give them? Start planning long before you get out. You know, have a college degree, have a good resume, and tell everybody you know and everybody you don't know that you're looking for a job. That's the advice I took when I retired from the Air Force, and I actually got hired by the Boeing company, six weeks before my terminal leave expired. So I was still in the Air Force when I started working for the Boeing company. But because I told everybody I know

and people I didn't know that I'm looking for a job. I love that. I love that. And then like looking back, four decades, the experience you've gained in the Air Force, if you were just to like close your eyes

and just visualize, what is your most proud moment in those four days? decades. It was probably reaching the top of my profession. You know, as an aircraft maintenance individual, getting to the chief master sergeant rank, because it's kind of a big deal. It's only 1% of the enlisted force that can be a chief master sergeant. And I made it there. I love that. I love that so much. Would you pass any message to those that are aspiring to jump into the Air Force,

like what's a message for them now, like the younger generation that see Thunderbirds and like they get excited, like what's a message you want to give to them? Well, I'd say a trip around the world starts with the first step. You know, figure out what you want to do

and go for it. And if you're motivated, there's nothing stopping you from retiring as a four-star general. You know, you can, I know so many people that were enlisted and transitioned into the officer corps

and, you know, achieve the rank of colonel or above. And to me, that's inspirational. You know, two of the pilots that were on the Thunderbirds when I was were former enlisted guys. And there's so many stories like that. That's powerful. Now, from everything we shared right now, before we conclude to the last and most important question,

is there anything else you wanted to share that you feel like we may have left out in your personal? profession and your experience and your stuff that you've faced in your lifetime. Anything specific, any highlight in your life while in the Air Force? No, I don't think so. Awesome. That's perfect. It was a blur.

You know, I had nine permanent duty stations in 24 years. That means I was moving on average less than every three years. And different countries as well. Korea, New Hampshire, Yep. I spent, Idaho, England. Out of my 24-year career,

I spent nine years overseas in different countries. And got to visit many more countries from those bases. I love that, Rick. I always ask all my guests' question towards the end, because it's

the co-winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. in your definition, what does the term winning mean to you? It means being successful during your working career so that you can enjoy retirement in comfort. And that's a mic drop right there. And to do that, and I try to get it through young people's head every day, you have to understand compound interest and you have to start investing when you're young. I didn't do that. I didn't start investing until I was 44 years old, but I still managed to

retire comfortably. That's powerful. That's a good model to live by as well. Invest while you can invest in many ways, invest in education, invest in learning, invest in, um, in retirement plans, invest in multiple things. Don't be afraid to try something new. Just because you don't have the experience to do it, take the challenge. The worse it can happen as you fail. And we learn more from our failures than we do from our successes. That's another tool I use in the classroom. You know, we're teaching hands-on stuff, shop stuff.

You're going to make mistakes. But that's how you improve because you learn from your mistakes. I love that so much. Do you have any form of social media you want to give the public to know or is everything just like on private as well? So, okay. Yeah. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us in this episode of the Coat Winning Insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow.

Rick Cop, thank you so much, Masa.