The Code To Winning - PARLER IS BACK: GAME CHANGING APPROACH TO PROTECT YOUR INFORMATION || JON WILLIS || EPISODE 065

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

In this eye-opening interview, I sit down with Jon Willis from Parler to uncover how the platform is revolutionizing social media by putting users first. Jon shares how Parler’s groundbreaking strategy is taking a bold stand against big tech’s data-selling practices—empowering users with true ownership and transparency.   We dive deep into Parler’s autonomous cloud solution, their new Play TV platform that’s taking on giants like YouTube and TikTok, and their innovative blockchain-based reward system designed to give users real value for their engagement. Jon also exposes the shocking truth behind how major tech companies profit from user data—and how Parler is rewriting the rules of digital privacy.   Don’t miss this insider look at the future of social media. Watch now and join the conversation about data privacy, user empowerment, and the changing face of digital platforms

The Code 2 winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Today we have a very special guest. If you are curious and learning a bit more about social media platform, about branding, about understanding movements of algorithms and all that, we have the CSO chief strategy officer and also co-founder of Pals in the studio today. If you are well familiar with Parla, and a social media app as well, one of the co-founders in the studio today.

So we're going to talk a bit about like the journey, founding it, the relationships with the current 45th and 47th president of the United States. It's going to be a very, very fun, enlightening, exciting interview, a different perspective. This is the episodes for you as well.

So without further ado, our amazing guest right here in Arizona, we're going to welcome John Willis. How you doing, brother? Good. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Exciting to be here. Awesome.

Thank you very much for your time. And I want to kind of just dive into it real quickly. Parlor. I remember hearing about Parlor 2020 after the president was kind of like removed out of X or Twitter at that time as well. Can you just walk us through the journey of Parlor, like how that began and everything else regarding that too? Yeah.

So Parlor was originally founded by John Mates and Rebecca Mercer in 2018. And it was really started as kind of like a counteract or a counterbalance to Twitter, which was starting to ban conservatives left and right, because if you didn't fit a certain narrative on what you were posting on Twitter at the time, you were either shadow banned or completely deplatformed. Some of the original ones that were kicked out of Twitter were like the Laura Loomers, the Milo Yanopoulos, those types. you know, because they were considered fringe or, you know, extreme.

Rush and Barr and all those kinds. Yeah, well, I don't know if Rush got completely banned. He probably got shadow banned a few times. But really, Laura and Milo were the first two ones. And so as Parlor started to grow, they really started to see their momentum hit in 2020 during the election when banning was happening left and right. And in October of 2020 is when the Hunter Biden story, was being heavily suppressed by Twitter and by Facebook.

And we learned later with the Twitter files that it was because of government collusion where government insiders were telling Twitter to shut down certain influencers that were posting the Hunter Biden story, including the New York Post. They even shut down the New York Post's account for a short time because they didn't want the Hunter Biden story to get out. So Parlor became that counterbalance in a sense. And it shot up to be the number one social media platform in the app store right before the election. And then when Trump lost, it continued to skyrocket. And then January 6th happened.

And the media needed a scapegoat. And so they decided to say that Parlor was the main culprit behind President. President Trump on planning and coordinating the January 6th attack on the Capitol. And there was no truth to it. I mean, Parlor didn't have the DM type of capabilities or any of the things that you need to coordinate. And in reality, if there was any coordination going on, it was done on Facebook. You know, that actually had Messenger and all that stuff.

But be that as it may, they found their villain. and through a coordinated effort between Apple, Google, and AWS, Parlor was shut down. January 9th, I think is when that happened of 2021. And then Trump was shut down pretty much the same day or the day after. And so you had 20 million Americans and even, you know, some foreign, you know, foreign people that were on the platform, completely silenced. And AWS even took it a step further where they deleted the database. So it wasn't just something where it was just a slap on the hand.

they couldn't bring it back and restore all the old posts or anything like that because AWS just pushed the delete button. And that was a real problem. And so you had parlor that had a billion dollar valuation at the time. A billion dollar valuation went to zero immediately. And it was all because of collusion between big tech and the government. And it wasn't until later, in fact, February of this year, where we, found out that Doge discovered a study between or a payment was made to Stanford University to do a

study on parlor in 2020 to basically monitor and spy on parlor users and they used that information to give to Apple and Google as the justification to shut down parlor and it was all government funded. They paid about $750,000 to the Stanford University in order to do that. So parlor was shut down John Mates was removed as CEO. The investors were scrambling, trying to figure out how they could save their investment. The platform was then sold to George Farmer, who is Candace Owens's husband. And he tried to bring it back, but they just, they weren't a tech company. Parlor never was a true tech company.

They had a front end that they designed with, you know, pretty decent, you know, I'd say subpar user interface and user experience. but they were still relying on AWS. And so they came back for a short period of time, but the damage was done and they just could not survive. And so they shut it down. George then sold the platform to a marketing agency who wanted the database email list. And we had the opportunity, my partner and I had the opportunity to pick that up. December of 23, we bought Parlor and the brand, the IP and the database. and we relaunched it back into the App Store spring of 2024.

And so it's been back for over a year now. And we're growing. People are excited that it's back. We put a completely new interface in place. And when I talk about Parlor's Journey, there was actually another journey that was happening parallel at that time. So you had Parlor's Journey, and then you had the journey with my partners and I.

Because at that time, we had another company where we, were building white label social media platforms for affinity groups churches you name it and we witnessed firsthand what was happening there and we made a very strong and bold decision hey let's parlors down let's launch let's launch an alternative immediately because we had the capability to launch a social media platform like that and so we did and within three weeks of us launching now mind you this was a month after parlor was shut down, we had our app in the app store, literally a month. And then three weeks after that, we get a call from Trump's team to come down to Mara Lago and to meet with him to start discussing the initial steps of building truth social, what is now true social. And so for about a

period of six months, we helped with the architecture of the UI, the UX, as well as the cloud infrastructure. But also during this time, one of my partners and I, who, who's actually the CEO of Parlor now, or Pulse, which is our parent company, we were looking at the whole ecosystem, or not the ecosystem, but the whole playing field of what was really going on. And you look at Twitter,

even though it wasn't owned by Elon yet, Twitter was still reliant on third-party cloud. Same thing with Instagram and Facebook had their own, YouTube had their own, but all these other platforms that were popping up like Getter, like Cloud Hub and Gab, they all had reliance on third-party big tech clouds. And so we looked at Parlor saying, okay, well, one of the main weaknesses that Parlor had is that it was so reliant on AWS.

And so we're like, okay, well, in order to prevent that from happening, you have to control your ecosystem. Exactly. So you have to have your own cloud. So we made some acquisitions and some smart moves. and we created our own cloud. It's called Triton Data Centers. So we, and when you talk about cloud,

most people equate cloud with a data center, and that's not it. Cloud is the software and the hardware. That's really what you need. And so we worked out a deal with the manufacturer that manufactures Facebook's servers, and we became a hyperscaler for what we called the OpenCompute Project.

So if you go to opencomput.org, which was created by Google and meta as a way to create hardware that is very energy efficient, we decided to go ahead and partner with them, partner with that company that manufacturer, and all of our data centers are now using the same servers that Facebook uses, and they're super energy efficient. But what's amazing about that is we control our cloud. So we cannot be shut down when it comes to our database or our cloud.

because of the redundancies that we have in place in the 24 data centers and eight countries around the world that we have. And so that was a very important thing that we had to build. But then we look at this and said, okay, well, wait a minute. We have the cloud. And basically when you have the cloud, it's like a foundation of a building. When you have your own cloud, you can pretty much do whatever you want. And so we decided, hey, parlor's cool and all, but it's in a crowded field because you have X now, which is now kind of taken the flag of being the conservative free speech app under Elon.

You have true social. You have threads. You have blue sky. And you still have Gab and Gettard, but they're not even worth mention because they're so low on the totem pole. And so we're like, okay, that's great. But where's the trend? The trend is going towards video content. You know, the instant dopamine hits with the reels.

And so we decided to launch, because we had our own cloud, we launched Play TV, which is our TikTok YouTube competitor. And yeah, and so that's what kind of led us to where we are now. And then since then we have grown our network or our ecosystem to include fintech, fintech and blockchain. And then we also have e-commerce with our marketplace. And then we also made a very strategic acquisition earlier this year. And we bought one of the world's largest content delivery networks called Edgecast,

which was originally developed by Yahoo in 2007. they sold it to Verizon for $300 million. Verizon created a partnership with Limelight, and they ended up creating a new company called EGio, which ended up filing for bankruptcy, and we bought the assets out of bankruptcy and relaunched it on our cloud. So it puts us in a very strong position,

because when you really look at what we've built in the last five years, we've built a true replacement to big tech. We don't have a single piece of anything in our tech stack that's big tech. It's all ours. My question, though, is that even though you do have your cloud, where does it come in regarding, like, using the app store or even Apple and Android? They've got, like, their Play Store and App Store as well.

You say you can't get shut, but can you get removed from the app store? Sure. Okay. Yeah. And so, like, the problem with the original parlor is that their website was shut down. Okay. And their website was on AWS. Now, it was, so was their apps.

but the main, you know, supposed to be autonomous is your website, because the rules are completely different for websites than they are if you're in the app store. When you're in Apple and Google, you still have to play by their rules. And their rules have lightened up quite a bit with several lawsuits that have happened against them over the last five years or so. But, I mean, their rules are not that crazy. It's like, don't post pornography, you know, on your sites, you know, don't have anything illegal. I mean, it's just basic, you.

like no-duh type of rules. So we still have to adhere to that, but we also have everything that's on the web too. So we have our apps and then we have web. And so if we were ever shut down on Apple and Google, which I highly doubt we would be now, we still have the web as the backup. And if you brought up the web browser on your phone,

it looks exactly like the app. So makes perfect sense. And then obviously we know before the takeover of Elon, in the X platform, it was at that time a lot of conservatives were getting removed. They were getting silenced. They were violating the rules at that time of what X did before you took over like X as well, which I feel was a major shift from what I've seen because I think at that time, Parlor was, and it's probably still like a household name, but it was mainly for conservatives.

Like majority conservatives felt like they could go there and express their opinion, get their voices heard as well. And then my question is like, what's the new strategy moving forward, considering there's competitors like X and truth social? Because whenever the president does something, I don't even look at his X-Nomer. I just type and add real Donald, truth social, just see what the latest thing is, you know, regarding that. What's the strategy moving forward for Parlor? Sure. So you're 100% right.

Parlor is known as a conservative app. It's got a 40% name recognition according to Pew Research Center. and it's all about conservatives. And the issue with that, originally, was that parlor only focused on conservatives. We are doing a little bit different approach where we don't care who you vote for. We don't care who you pray to. We don't care what color skin you have, you know, where you come from. Parlor is for everybody.

And let me ask you this. You mentioned X. You mentioned true social. Let's even throw Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok in there. As a user, how much do you earn from those platforms by using those platforms? Not as a content creator, but as a user. The answer is zero. Zero.

But how much do they make off of your data? Billions. When you click, I accept, when you join their platforms, you're accepting the fact that they're going to take all your metadata. They're going to mine it. They're going to listen to your conversations, which they do, you know, for advertising purposes. They're going to track you and they're going to see who you associate with. Like right now, if you have a Facebook account, I have a Facebook account, the producer has a

Facebook account. Meta knows that we're all in the same room. And so when we start seeing friend suggestions, it's going to be based off your database, my database, her database. Crazy. And that's how they work. Whereas with Parlor, we don't want you to be the product because with big tech platforms, you're their product because they are selling you to the highest bidder. We are flipping the model saying, keep your data, we're not going to spy on you, we don't give a dang about your data, your metadata. We want you to be able to express yourself freely within reason, no pornography. We have a zero tolerance on pornography. But we want you to share your opinions, share your beliefs,

and you're going to earn rewards by doing so. And so we are the first social media platform that is fully integrated blockchain rewards into our platform. Wow. So anybody in the 176 countries that Parlor is currently in can earn daily cryptocurrency rewards. The crypto project that we launched was called Optio, which is Latin for choice, because in order to help people, be free, the first thing that they have to have is the freedom of choice. And reality, most people don't have freedom because they're broke. They have no, or impoverished, they have no ability to make money. And it's funny, as you look at some of these third world countries, I mean,

you've lived in West Africa before, and there's parts of South Africa where you're from, that are very third world. And yet, a lot of people have smartphones. As as impoverished as they are, they still have a smartphone or they have access to the internet. And as they go on to parlor or play TV, they can earn these rewards in a daily basis. So think about it this way. A single mom, she has two jobs to take care of her two kids. And the stress that she has every single day is so heavy. It's unbelievably heavy. But every single night, what does she do doing as she lays into bed? She lays in bed and she starts scrolling on her phone through social media. We call it. doom scrolling, right? Well, as she's doomed scrolling, just watching content, interacting,

liking, sharing, commenting, posting, whatever it is, what if she woke up the next morning and in her wallet, we call it archivo wallet, which is our defy crypto wallet, she wakes up and there's rewards in there for what she did the night before. And what if we are able to get the value of those rewards to a point where those rewards that she earned the night before can go buy groceries for her. Interesting. Or if she could go and help pay her rent. You know, also let's look at West Africa.

You mentioned Ghana before the interview. The average individual in Ghana makes $300 a month. Okay? It's actually a stat that I know. And $300 a month. What if they made that in a week? What if they made that in three days? what is that going to do to not only that individual,

but to that community, to that economy, to that country. And so what we are trying to do is make the users of something they already do every single day, the beneficiaries, not the product. Interesting.

And so when you ask what parlor's plan is, we are planning on trying to make the world a better place by giving people choice. And the way to do that is to, Take what they're already doing, behaviors that they already do, and to monetize their behavior for the user, not for us. We will make money no matter what, because we have an ad platform, all this stuff. We have plenty of verticals to make revenue. But none of them involve the data of that user.

And then, but what are the stuff that people are going to be doing? Because we say they're going to be gaining rewards. Are there any specific things or multiple stuff people can do to try and gain those rewards? Sure. Yeah. Interact. Engage. So if you follow your best friend from high school, you're liking their post, you're commenting, making jokes, you're posting, posting videos, posting thoughts, posting articles, you know, you're joining groups, just using the platform. And we have point values attached to every single action within the platform. And then at the end of the day, you're distributed points. And those points then can either be redeemed in our marketplace, which I'll talk about here in a second, or you can take it to an open exchange and convert them into crypto and take it to cash. And you guys have had a lot of big names end up like using Parlor over time. I think there was a time even the first lady end up having an account as well. Did they end up like losing that account when everything was shut down?

And what's the, okay. So we were able to restore all the accounts. So if Melania ever wanted to come back, her account is still there. Her following is still there. The original content is gone because AWS wiped it out. Okay. So, but, you know, we've been able to bring back personalities like Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Sean Hannity.

We have like even more of the fringe, like Alex Jones. We have James O'Keefe, Newsmax, Real America's Voice. You know, we have quite a few Laura Loomers back on there. I mean, we've got quite a few that are on there. Okay. And then, you know, we even have like celebrities like Kevin Sorbo and, you know, they're just starting to come back on because we haven't really done a hardcore push yet for marketing because we've been building this.

We've been building everything in stealth mode for the last 18 months. But now we've, you know, we've got a lot of things cooking where, you know, parlor's going to be a household name again here, Barry. shortly i love that so much and i know you and i spoke yesterday we talk about like play tv um and i know you kind of briefly touched on that what is play tv going to do differently to what we currently have right now with youtube apart from the fact that it will become a bit more independent because of pulse and like what you guys would know have in your own cloud what is it going to do differently for people to try and like go there and actually get the proper and full benefits and um enjoyment from it

Well, just like with Parlor, you earn rewards for using Play TV. But as a content creator, you have a channel on there. How often have you been flagged? Oh, I've been right now about three times. So one of my FBI episodes because of the song I end up using over there, copyright. But I and then one other guy that scale his business in terms of like e-commerce, they're flagged. They're like giving misleading information. I'm like, no, he gave his thing.

So like I've been flagged about three times like the last three weeks or so. Yeah. And most of the time it doesn't make any sense. You know, because they change the rules. It's like the move in the goalposts, you know,

when it comes to turn or the, the community guidelines that you see on YouTube, on TikTok. I mean, I've been flagged. I mean, I used to be an influencer on Facebook back in the day, making really good money,

but I would be demonetized every other month. And they would never tell me why. And so with Play TV, we're not doing any of that. Now, do we have moderation? Of course. You know, we want to make sure there's nothing illegal being posted. Same thing with the copyright issues. You know, that's a real issue.

But, you know, we don't want any pornography or trafficking type stuff. We don't want any of that stuff on there. We have zero tolerance for that. But we've learned over the last 10 years or so the amount of voices that were censored just because of ideologies. You know, ideological differences. that's not what we do. TikTok still does it. And I know TikTok has a new buyer lined up right now.

We've actually spoken to them. We know who they are. Do you want to share that? Cannot. I'm curious. Can I give your name? Can you tell me yes or no? Go ahead.

Mr. Beast? No. But the amount that they're paying is crazy stupid. Yeah, crazy, crazy stupid. But, I mean, there's value there. But the problem is with this new buyer, are they going to continue this is suppression suppression of free speech and freedom of expression like they already do right now under bite dance and so with play tv we wanted to give a virtually

identical experience that you have on youtube with long form videos as well as short form reels we call them bursts to the users but then monetize the users by allowing them to be rewarded and then content creators the you know how we monetize content creators with um a mixture of fiat or cash and crypto makes it a lot more appealing for them to move their audience over. So or at least, you know, not, we don't expect them to move their audience over, but at least start a channel there and have it be another avenue of monetization outside of just YouTube, TikTok, Instagram and such. I'm glad you guys are taking the role understanding right now people's attention span really lies

on like video and graphics and stuff like that. Even though an attention span is going to be like eight seconds, I've had. to like had like my media guy tell me hey let's shorten up the reel let's do all these kind of stuff because when people are scrolling they're trying to get as much satisfaction from like um the content they're getting but also attention span is so little three seconds you get you got them for three seconds if you have a hook on your caption that gets them to stop or you have a hook line that the first thing you say is like hey are you interested in a side hustle watch this that's a hook that will get someone to stop for more than three seconds before

they scroll to the next one. So it's really that two to three second window that you have to capture someone's attention. It's one of the reasons why we launch bursts because we know people have the attention span of Nats. No, I love that so much. I want to kind of go back again into the truth social, the creation of it. So you're invited in Marilago, right? And I know there's only so much you can end up like revealing it as well. And I don't want to respect that. But what role did you play in the creation of truth social? So all we did originally was we, we, We help them with the initial wire framing of the app. You know, and the way it works when you do app design is each little window, each little button,

you know, there's logic that has to go to it. And so we helped with the initial user interface and user experience wireframing of truth. And then we help them with the cloud infrastructure. Even though they ended up not using the cloud infrastructure, they're on AWS right now. Oh, okay. You know. But isn't that a conflict of interest or you had an acquired parlor at that time? We didn't have parlor yet.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Now, that's fascinating. Yeah, this was in 2021. We acquired parlor at the end of 23. Okay.

All right. And I do like the fact that you guys end up like saying the new focus of what's going to be happening. And currently right now, are you in how many countries are you guys? 176. Okay. And obviously the U.S. being the most. What's the second most? most like higher user base?

I think it's pretty close between either Saudi Arabia or Brazil. We're starting to pick up quite a bit in the Philippines right now, believe it or not. And then you guys haven't done any marketing or anything, obviously, right? Just little, yeah. We have, I mean, we're on Fox quite a bit right now in Newsmax. From like a talking head, subject matter expert standpoint. One of our senior advisors is Eric Finman, who is the youngest Bitcoin, millionaire. He became a Bitcoin millionaire at the age of 12. He's in his 20s now. But I mean,

we just did a thing that went viral last week where they were actually, the Iranian rebels that were rebelling against the Iranian regime were actually using Parlor to communicate back and forth because the Iranian regime couldn't shut down our platform. And so that was really the first test is they, you know, AWS or Facebook, WhatsApp, they all. shut down in iran but we you know through eric were able to send you know they had starlink connections and then they were able to use parlor to communicate and so we actually have pictures of iranian rebels holding up a piece of paper that says parlor has given us a free free speech here in iran or something like that wow and so that was on fox new or fox business uh last week or the week before

and yeah awesome now i'm glad i'm excited to you that we actually touched on that as well and i also I think the incorporation of like crypto, I think you guys are just catching ahead of like what the trends are right now, what people are. And also with your experience on blockchain, you know, considering that you have that experience too. Where do you see power in the next five years? So, well, let's talk about the blockchain and that leads right into your question. So last year, we knew that one of the biggest pieces that was missing in social media was blockchain technology. Now, Facebook or Meta tried launching a token a few years ago that bombed miserably, mainly because their token was really to benefit meta. It wasn't really to benefit the users. And it was just like a meme token. It had no real utility or value to it.

So we launched Optio under the auspices of having it be a true utility token. And if you know anything about blockchain, you have stable coins like USDT. You have alt coins, which are like Ethereum and Solon. you know, that are strong coins, you know, anything, an alt coin is anything that's not Bitcoin. You have asset-backed tokens. And then you have meme tokens like the Trump or Melania token, the fart coin, pepe coin, you know, all these. Yeah, the Doge coin or Shiba Inu. There's no real tangible value to the meme tokens because there's nothing backing them.

I call them firework tokens where they, they, they, they, look pretty, they shoot up really high in value, they explode, and then they disappear. Then they're done. Rug pool. Rug pool, 100%. So, but with utility tokens, there hasn't really been, besides Bitcoin, a really strong utility token introduced that can be integrated into multifacets of everyday life. And because we have a very wide ecosystem, we decided to build a layer one blockchain,

you know, Optio, with the intent that it can be plugged in to multiple different type of platforms, including like an X or a true social or whatever, not just be specific to the pulse products. And so what we did with this is we built it in a way as a layer one. You can launch meme tokens on Optio. You can launch asset back tokens, which we've already done one already. or any other token, and you can really start to make that layer one a really good foundational blockchain for a bunch of different projects. But for us, we wanted to make sure that utility was used in the real world. So we launched a program called Optio accepted here, which is similar to what American Express and Discover Card did when they first launched, where they would go out and

build relationships with different retailers and say, hey, we want you to accept our credit card. you know, if people will come in and they're going to buy your products, but they're going to be used in a Discover card or an Amex card. Same thing goes with Optio. We're working deals with retailers all around the country, starting in the U.S., where they can accept Optio as a form of payment. And so we have some pretty big deals that we're going to be announcing here very shortly, very big deals, where that real-world utility will be used in grocery stores,

department stores, that you use every single day. day. Interesting. The other thing is, is we launched a marketplace called Kartix, C-A-R-T-I-X, Cardix. We partnered with Kevin Harrington, who's one of the original sharks from Shark Tank. And on there, we're currently onboarding over 100,000 merchants that have Shopify stores, WooCommerce stores, WIC stores. We have 250 different type of online e-commerce stores that can be tied into Cardix, and they can sell their products, similar to what you would see on a TikTok shop or Amazon or Etsy or Pinterest, all in one location. But the difference is you could take payments in Fiat and Optio. So it's a mixture of the two. So let's say that you wanted to say, okay, yeah,

this T-shirt cost 20 bucks, 18 in Fiat, $2 in Optio. Now, how does that benefit the vendor? Well, that $2 in Optio could be worth $4 soon, you know, because it's on an exchange. So it has a value that can, you know, usually go up or down, but over time, it's going up. As we add more utility to it, it's not just a one for $1 anymore. It could be a one for $5 or one for $10, depending on the growth, the long-term growth of that token. And so vendors are really excited about that because typically they offer discounts anyways in order to move product. Well, if we are helping them with advertising through our platforms, they're more entitled or more in tune to list with us or to put their products on Cardix. We help them market on Parlor and

Play TV, our email list, and so forth. And then they take a portion of that in Optio. That creates utility. So a user earns Optio on parlor. They go to Cardix and they see a t-shirt that they want or a candle or a hunting gear, whatever it is. And they pay the Fiat amount for it, and then they throw Optio from their Kivo wallet into it as well, and that increases the utility. The more utility you have with that token, historically, the higher the value. Wow. So that's crazy.

I was just thinking about it the other time, just obviously with a transformation of how we end up like using money to buy certain stuff. It went from like actual cash to getting a swiping. Now I just use my phone, Apple pay with everything as well. do you have any plans to try and collaborate with other international like bigger money transfer systems like a Western Union stuff like the reason I'm asking that for myself with the content I'm releasing every day because we have a project we have Project 100 K subs right because we're releasing every single day in July and so forth as well so I my editors in the

US are getting a lot overwhelmed they've been outsourcing some in the Philippines and then like I have another one who I recently hired like in Pakistan as well. But one in Pakistan does a PayPal. The other one does like, I can't remember what it was. It was like something with a W. I don't even know what it is. But my point is, is that your plan moving forward to try and make it accessible when people can just send transfers easily?

Correct. Rather than like the whole process that. So one of the other apps that we have in the app store is called Kyvo. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes.

Don't ask me what it stands for because I don't know. I didn't come up with the name. But Kaivo is a DeFi wallet. And within the next few weeks, it will be a full Venmo competitor with Fiat. And so we, Kyvo's basically becoming a bank. And so we'll have all the banking features where you can do peer-to-peer transactions, you know, just like you can with Venmo, PayPal, cash app. And then also as you use that wallet and the Kyvo debit card that we're going to be releasing here shortly,

guess what? You earn rewards. Quick question, though, I've got to intervene. Will it be an international thing? Because my hardest thing ever, if people can get a thing where you can do and I know it's harder with like the Swift, the rates, like a rant or like the Lonee and Canada, whatever it may be. Like if it could be like a straight Venmo from like year to South Africa, it's such a, like it takes such a stress away, you know what I'm saying?

We got you. Really? That is interesting. That's always been my dream. I do so much of transactions everywhere, but it's like Venmo is so accessible, cash up and all this stuff. It's easy to do like stuff here. But my dream is to do a Venmo international. Like I just want to do something so quick.

We got it. Interesting. Yep. I had this interview. Sorry, you can continue that. Just wanted to make your day. No, that's good. And how will exchange rates affect that, though?

Oh, I mean, typically what you would do with any type of currency exchange, you know, depending on what it is. But yeah, I mean, it's all automatically built into the transfer system. So when you're wiring, you know, doing a peer-to-peer transaction, let's say you're going from USD to pesos in Mexico or something, it'll do the exchange calculation and all that. And also on the crypto side, we're currently building a Dex right now, which will have a swap in it. And so the same thing goes.

If I want to take Optio and swap it to, you know, BTC or Ethereum or XRP, it'll make the automatic adjustments on the currency difference or the exchange difference. Wow, wow. And now I know we don't have much time, but I have to kind of go into this entrepreneurial field that you currently in. I think one of the best things about being here is the fact that the U.S. is the capital of capitalism. Like there's an opportunity for just not only like improving lives, but also like getting the rewards and benefits of reaching a certain level of income and that's why even the richest man in the world is from my country because you took on the opportunity to be able to come here and exercise that my my question with that

is what has been probably the most rewarding thing personally for you as an entrepreneur well being an entrepreneur is one of the hardest things you could do um the journey that it takes the stress the faith um the trust um you know i you know it you know it's you It sounds stupid, but in the Last Jedi movie, which is the least popular of all the Star Wars movies, Yoda says to Luke, failure is the greatest teacher. And if you haven't failed, you're not an entrepreneur. And the journey that we've been talking about for the last several minutes, all sounds great. But for all the great stuff, there's been a ton of not-so-great stuff. not a lot of betrayals, snakes, you know, just evil people that we've come in contact with,

and that where we've been able to overcome that. So in order to be an entrepreneur, you have to be able, and this is something I'm still learning to this day, to truly discern good from bad. And that comes not only in opportunities, but also with people. And to learn how to be a politician in a sense to be in that gray area. Now, my personality, I'm very black and white. You know, it's like I'm a justice type of guy, so something goes wrong. I demand justice. And I've learned that that doesn't necessarily work in business because it actually burns more bridges than anything. But I'm not saying that you have to be gray in order to be a snake or anything. That's not what I'm saying is you have to learn how to kind of go with the ebbs and flows of

business. And being an entrepreneur, you have to be able to take risk. And I can tell by meeting somebody whether they have the ability to take a risk or not. And the same thing goes with like investors. Like if I'm going to raise, you know, do a capital raise or something, I know who I'm going to talk to and who I'm not going to talk to. And if I have someone that's working a nine to five job that is so focused on their 401k and their IRA, I know that they are completely adverse to risk. Why? Because they like the security of their job

and they like the security of their retirement plan and they don't want to muddy those waters at all. Whereas someone that has started their own business or has had successes or who has had failures, those are those who are willing to take a risk and to take a leap of faith to do something crazy. I've done a lot of crazy things in my professional career of 26 years, 27 years. And some of them have been incredible.

Some of them have been absolute horrifying nightmares. But would I change it all to go for a 9 to 5 job? Absolutely not. I'd go crazy. Because my brain is always looking at how do I make things better? How do I scale it? How can I take this problem and solve it? And how do I take everyone that I know?

know with me for the ride so they can benefit with it too. And I think that's what's really interesting with what we have with Parlor is all my partners, a lot of them have been with me and my other partner through this five-year journey where we have dealt with a lot of these snakes together and we are family. In fact, our text thread is called the family. So like when I get a text from, it says, oh, I got a text from the family. So it's our group thread. Because everyone in there, I can consider my brother or sister. And you only get to that level in business when you've gone through hell with each other. And, but yeah, I mean, an entrepreneur, I mean, you can go to all the seminars and listen to all the Gary V talks and Tony Robbins and all that. But at the end of the day,

if you don't have the drive to take a leap of faith and be willing to deal with the consequences of that leap, you can't be an entrepreneur. That's powerful. Yeah. And I think it, it, it's, it's also moments where it's lonely, there's moments that are just dark. There are moments that, like you say, you experience. I haven't been in the snake park where I've experienced that, but like I've done, I've done almost all the states doing so many different interviews.

And like, sometimes I ask yourself, like, what am I doing this for? Then I just realized, oh my God, it's always been my dream to connect with the most high profile people that I can be able to get content out there, that I can reach many people's lives and to see this like the progress happening on a day-to-day basis it's an exciting thing but like i feel like it can be done here in the u.s you know there's something that's very unique and when i first came in 2017 my old mission companion we lived in utah and i just came to visit for a month i called my dad and my state president at the time i'm like i'm going to transfer you i need to come to school year because i've never seen people 21 years old going for like four months doing sales coming back

and then like investing in a home. You know, like just that opportunity. I'm like the like it's it's that capitalist mindset, which I've appreciated most. And I feel like sometimes people that are born yet, sometimes don't really appreciate the essence of just that, that privilege that you might have, you know. Yeah.

And that's 100% accurate. I mean, we're spoiled here. Especially, you know, the entitlement mentality that people have nowadays where they just automatically expect things to be handed to them for free. I mean, you have people coming to this country now having that expectation. You come to the United States and you're going to get everything for free. That doesn't work anymore because, number one, we can't afford it as a country. And you, as a person, can't afford it either because if you have everything handed to you on a silver platter, you're good for nothing.

Because you don't know how to work. It's like the old adage of when you put a lion in the zoo, all of its natural instincts to survive disappear. So if that lion were ever released into the wild, it'd be killed because it doesn't know how to hunt. It doesn't know how to work for its food. And in reality, that is the problem with communism, with socialism, democratic socialism, wherever you want to take it. It's all legalize slavery, is what I call it, because you become not only a slave to the government, but you become enslaved to an ideology that is meant to suppress your natural instinct to be free. And so when our founding fathers, when they, you know, battled, duked it out, you know,

with the Continental Congress coming up with the Declaration of Independence, they took the risk of death by treason to say, we demand to be free. We don't need you, King George. We don't need your outrageous taxes of 3%. I give anything to pay 3% tax. But we don't need that anymore. we demand to be free. And now you see a complete wing of the United States,

namely in New York, that is saying we demand to be slaves. We want the government to take care of us. And if you've learned anything about the government, they don't know how to do anything efficiently. They know how to spend. That's about it. But, you know, so for my standpoint,

when you look at being an entrepreneur, taking a leap of faith, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and number one you have to trust that person that you see that's the first step. If you trust the person that you see in the mirror every single day, that means someone else is going to trust that person as well. And if you can grow that circle of trust where you can grow a business out of that trust

with the integrity and honesty and doing everything that you should be doing the right way, you're going to find success. It may not be with that particular venture, but if you keep trying and trying and trying, I look at my grandpa, for instance, who passed away a few years ago, he didn't become successful until his 50s. He was always an entrepreneur. And he's one of the wealthiest guys I knew, but he didn't make it until his 50s. You know, and I mean, he had a candy, he had a candy business of all things. But it wasn't until he discovered foam insulation and started a foam

insulation company here in the Phoenix area, becoming one of the top foam insulation contractors here in the state. And it was all because he saw it. I can't remember if it was in California or where he saw it being installed. He didn't know what it was. He said, hey, maybe we should do that in Arizona because it's so hot here. And he started that business. And it's still alive to the day. My cousins run it now. But it was an opportunity that he saw and a risk that he was willing to take. After years of failures, years of being screwed over by partners, he took that risk and it paid off. Powerful. Now, I love that so much. Thank you so much for coming in the studio. I always ask this question to guess just towards the end

because it's the code to winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. In your personal definition, the last and final question, what does it mean to be winning? When you can be proud at yourself, when you can look in the mirror and know that your kids are taken care of, your wife is taken care of,

and that you know that at the end of the day, you still trust that person that you see. that's winning. That's powerful. And even if you feel like quitting and you still wake up the next day and you're out there fighting again, that's winning. And winning is always ongoing. There's never a definitive win when it comes to entrepreneur comes to life. It's basically the whole adage of enduring to the end.

I look at it this way. If you ever go to Universal Studios in Hollywood, they have those escalators that go up the side of a mountain. When I was a little kid, my brother and I, I would race running up the down escalator. You know, so the escalator didn't have any people on it, we would try to run up it. You get tired because it's going up the side of a mountain. So if you stop, what happens? That down escalator takes you all the way back to where you started.

And I think throughout life, we're constantly climbing in a down escalator. And though our legs may be burning, we may be out of breath, our lung, you know, we're just, we feel like we're going to have a heart attack because the climb is so hard. If we stop our climb, we'll end up right where we started. We have to continue to be climbing. And for me, every step that we take that's upwards in a world that's constantly trying to bring us down is winning. Powerful. Thank you so much.

We're going to add at the bottom there, the Parlor app, every other app and Pulse and all that kind of stuff as well in the description section. If you could let our viewers know where they could get a hold of any of the other projects you guys are working for your companies and so forth as well, please. Yeah, just go to. buypulse.com, buy B-Y-Pulse, P-U-L-S-E.com. You can also check out Parlor at parlor.com, playtTV at playtv.pterlor.com and everything else. But on ByPulse.com, you'll see links to all of our site. Make sure you follow us on our socials at Get Parlor app on X as well as Optio blockchain on X. So the co-winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. John Willis, great on us.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.