The Code To Winning - STRUGGLES, SUCCESS & SOCIAL MEDIA: A CEOs JOURNEY || HAYDEN VAN HULZEN || EPISODE 019

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

THE FUTURE OF MARKETING & SOCIAL MEDIA - Episode 019   Hayden Merryn Van Hulzen’s story is one of resilience, determination, and the courage to chase success against all odds. As a single mother navigating the challenges of divorce, she found herself at a crossroads—forced to rebuild not just her personal life but her professional identity as well. Having already made a name for herself in the marketing world, Hayden had a choice: remain in the comfort of her past achievements or take a leap of faith and forge her own path. Choosing the latter, she founded HVH Media & Marketing, a company built on her vision of creating powerful, intentional branding and digital strategies for businesses looking to make an impact. Her expertise, work ethic, and fearless approach soon put her in rooms with some of the most influential figures in the industry, including Kim Kardashian and other high-profile personalities. She turned every opportunity into a stepping stone, proving that success isn’t just about who you know—it’s about how you show up, innovate, and create value. Now, as a CEO, entrepreneur, and marketing powerhouse, Hayden shares her journey to inspire others, showing that no obstacle is too great when you have the right mindset. Through her content, she dives deep into the CEO mindset, the future of digital marketing, and the ever-changing landscape of social media, giving aspiring entrepreneurs the tools they need to thrive in a competitive world. From rebuilding her life to building a thriving business, Hayden Merryn Van Hulzen is proof that reinvention is always possible—and that the best chapters are written by those brave enough to start again.

The Code 2 winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Today we have a very, very special guest. I'm right here from Scottsdale, Arizona. We still continue in our Code Winning tour. She goes by the name of Hayden San Holson. Like I said, amazing entrepreneur. She's the founder and CEO of HVH marketing. An amazing guest.

We're looking for the opportunities. So without further ado, I guest today, hey, welcome to the studio. It's so nice to be here. You forgot. Awesome stuff. I want to just kind of really go direct and deep and try and find out exactly about, like, your story. I saw you on social media. Like, a lot of your content was popping up on my For You page.

I'm like, okay, I don't want to connect with this person. And so can you just give us a brief background of, you know, who you are and how did you just follow from this? So they're what, get up? Yeah, absolutely. I always feel like anytime I get asked this question, I answer it so many different ways. But more than that, it's always a long story, right? And so coming up with those highlights is always a little bit of a challenge. But I feel like all great entrepreneurs have a hardship, right?

There's some kind of point in their life that causes that kivet. And many times I kind of consider it this like scenics effect, right? that point where you burn all the way down and you rise from the ashes. And that was very true for me. I was not someone who considers myself born an entrepreneur. I actually had a very fixed, indoctrinated employee mindset for a very long time. And it took crazy happenstance to get me to where I am now. So I was working in some very high-level positions.

I had worked my way off to being marketing director, CMO. And if you can believe it or not, my. position where I've been working for a very long time at a very hard time in my life, going through divorce, my boss, and my assistant Diane Nathangresh. And it completely turned my whole build upside down. I lost my friends. My mother cut me off at that time in my life. She had always been kind of on the outs. And I like lost my job then there because like the Gare interprets will came in. Like there was a lot of really she stuff that happened. And I had my son that I had to support and I was like, oh, now what? Who am I? And so it took me really having

a little bit of like that moment of like wallowing and self-pity about what had happened and then going, no, I'm not going to let this define me and I'm going to rise from better. And so I took what I had learned and I pivoted and I found this role at a cosmetics brand that was really needing a mover and shaker, somebody who was going to make big differences. And I came in and I know. Was that in Arizona? Was that in Chicago? Yep. For Kim.

He came in a big cosmetics brand that needed some support and needed to be put on the math in a real way. And I put that in the room with Kim Kardashian and, you know, some of the biggest beauty influencers, which is how I garnered that campaign of over a billion views. And I did it just by making sure I could create those key partnerships. And then I built myself up. And it got to a point where I realized and even the CEO, the company, he was like, it's time for you to do this for yourself. And so I transitioned out because I hit a ceiling with him.

I was like, I'm neither going to like try and find a way where I'm like actually invested in this company. Because I was just a sourade employee at the end of the day. I mean, I had good options and things that were coming from it. But it was time. So I took the launch into entrepreneurship. I jumped out and I started HVH media marketing. I didn't have a lot of time to do it, which is why the name isn't something fancy. It's just my initials.

You know what I'm saying? I don't have that. When I was like looking at the question this point, I was so HV. I'm like, hang on, well, that's her first name and the last name. It was just HVH. And honestly, it was because part of that jumping point was I had clients ready. You know, everybody else starts entrepreneurship in their life and now I have to go look for clients. I had people who are like, whenever you do this, I'm ready to be on board.

And so, you know, day one, although you kind of wake up and you go, hey, I'm unemployed, like, I'm an entrepreneur, but really I'm just unemployed, right? It's like your first day as an entrepreneur, you have unlimited time, but like you don't work brain when you work for you. And so that's weird coming from that employee mindset. But I had people who were ready and they wanted to work with me. And so I had clients right off the bat and I got going. And it just, I put the time, love and effort in and it took off and it continues to do well.

And sometimes it takes me taking that moment, even like in times like this where we sit here and pause and I go, wow, I really have come very far. Wow. I love that so much. And, you know, one of the things I remember that's especially from very successful in shopping at back yourself, is that there comes a time where there was a trial that was faced and a tribulation, an obstacle that was in the way. Some people often don't overcome that challenge. What was, what drove you to literally see beyond that thing to where you're at right now?

Kind of like push towards that. Well, keep in mind, this transition happened in 2019 toward the end. So COVID hit in 2020. So I started my entrepreneurial journey right before it became very challenging for a lot of people. But COVID was not a negative for me in the ways that you would expect it to be for an entrepreneur because I saw it coming. In 2019 and then early 2020, when things just started to seem amidst, I started to convince clients that they needed to convert to e-commerce. I was like, this doesn't feel right. I want to make sure we're established in an e-commerce platform so that if we need to transition or something were to happen, like we're going to be able to keep ourselves float.

And the clients who listened, they made money hand over fist because Amazon, they succeeded very, very well during that time because we were all home and we were all forced to participate in that way. But unfortunately, the clients who didn't listen, you know, many of them didn't make it. And I was very fortunate that during that time frame, you know, I was able to keep myself afloat, you know, and that was a big deal being a single parent and having my son. And, you know, I'm just kind of relaunched my life as an entrepreneur. and, you know, that's the time where people tend to, you know, have the most moletal stuff kind of happening. And even though it was meant to be a big obstacle, I didn't let it get them down. I actually started a second company at that time because I needed to handle the overflow of my PR, hard time to hire because we were all virtually based. And I actually started a second company, 21 North, which I since repurchase and brought back in.

So like that's all been reabsort. But it was great at the time because it allowed me to have a ranch out in L.A. And they were helping with my PR arm of my agency so that I can really be focused on our bread and butter, which is social media influencer and digital art. I love that. Love that so much. One of the things, like I said, I'm an immigrant, obviously coming to resentment right now. The one thing I realized about the United States is that as time goes by convenience, just more accessible. but when I feel about convenience,

if I'm hungry, you get a door dash or a good way. If you want to drive somebody to be up where you don't have the car, you get an Uber to drive you there. My Tesla's got like one of those command things where if I don't know where it is in the parking lot,

it can either honk at me or just reverse and drive all the way towards me. And it's just, if you want anything, everything's online. You can order stuff. There's even like Walmart

where things get delivered over to you. So convenience is so important. Amazon, all these things start of booming because I feel like the world changed so much post-COVID. And right now, social media is one of the most powerful tools trying to connect to people. Because nobody, I can't even when last. I watched the new thing for the election.

What else? Back from that, nobody watches the news, but I tuned to podcasts. I listen to people because I feel like sometimes those are more raw and unfelted and are just like more genuine as well. So my question with this, considering you in the social media space, where do you see social media taking off of 2025 and moving 4? Well, the other thing that talking about accessibility and some things that are coming up as AI, and that's going to play a very active role. And I think a lot of people are more afraid of it than they need to be. The people who need to be afraid of AI are people who are unwilling to grow because AI is only as good as its teacher. And so the same thing is true, even if it starts getting integrated into the social media sphere, the way that it has already

and social media itself, it's going to continue to connect people in bigger ways. But it's also going to be probably one of the most important places for you to voice and market your brand. And it's such an easy, convenient, everyday way to get access to our customer. I tell people all the time, I'm like, if you want to get results today, you can't put a print advertisement out. You can't even necessarily go with search engine optimization, Google. You maybe could get away with some digital. But one of the first things you really could do is get on social media. I love it.

And for people who are just starting out, it's one of the easiest, cheapest, budget-savvy kind of ways. to get in front of people and in a non-freatening way, right? So many consumers now, they're very educated, they know that they're being marketed to. There's a really harmless way to get run to something right here and say something to them without them feeling like you're actually trying spelled up. And that's been so awesome about it. I love that. That's so powerful.

And I notice as well, you know, you connected with so many high-profile celebrities. You've connected with, like, people with digging food as well. There's somebody out there that's watching and they often feel so inadequate. Like, oh, my gosh, like I'm a. afraid to get up my comfort zone. What has worked for you in terms of networking and how important is network in order to try and get a reach and build someone's brand as well? Oh, absolutely. Well, first of all, there's immense value in working with people who are concerned about high-level influencers because they have a much more honed in audience. And depending on what

your avatar is, sometimes their demographic makes them more sense for you. I've told people this many times that you don't always need the biggest influencer to make a difference. So, For instance, take a local restaurant. Some of the best marketable people out here, some of the best influencers that we use are the local foodies. Now, they don't have the millions and millions and millions of followers. But you have to remember in those millions of followers, they're not a catered demographic. When you're talking about a foodie, and it's an Arizona foodie, the people who are watching are from Arizona. That's exactly who you need when you're a local restaurant.

And you're not a large chain. That works even better than getting a large person. And I'd actually showcase this to people who would maybe have questioned me because I brought in the people who have like the 5 million, you know, different followers. And I brought them in and I showed the difference between someone with only 20,000 followers here that are local foodies versus somebody with 5 million followers. And that person whose smaller micro-influidzers converts so much better. So the person who's watching this, you don't just still know what their analytics look right, right? When you ask for that stuff, half of those people are looking to be entertained, you know, 20% of them think the girls, you know, stuff is. walk to him, just because they want to see what she's wearing. These days all matter, right?

And so when you're talking about converting as far as, you know, a food or a restaurant, like you need to be making sure that whoever you're working with makes sense for exactly what your demographic is, who you're trying to convert, you know, who your customer makes. Oh, I love that. I love this so much. And then now considering, you know, speaking of 2025, there's all these social media tools that are just so, like, the use field, it's so helpful as well. Others monetize better, like YouTube, of course, and TikTok is just another one. feel like it's so good in terms of algorithm. So just push certain stuff.

What do you think, if something were to start right now, maybe someone should start on like a TikTok, what do you think that should start on and what should you focus on, like a niche in? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Instagram is always my center of everything. Facebook is a necessity because Facebook drives that. Or for you to set your Instagram up forever you need to have Facebook.

TikTok follows and so does YouTube depending on what your brand is specifically. Now, the next important piece, and this is, and this is, you know, I think where people get lost. They try so hard to be for everyone that they're for no one. You have to be exactly what you're trying to mish in on. And I feel like that seems confusing or too vague to people. But if you are trying to hone in on your audience, you need to be comfortable not being for somebody,

which means sometimes you need to push that envelope. Because you want to create die hard, loyal followers. If you think of any great brand, and how it started, it was for somebody and it was not for somebody else. And that was okay because the people that they were for, they were for them. And the retention is so much better than. And it's a lot easier to speak to that person, right? If you know exactly who your avatar is and you define them and you give them exactly what they want,

they'll keep giving you more and more information on how to market to them. And that's what's so great about having a very, you know, loyal community. You define exactly who you're going after and then they'll help you with your marketing. But, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was looking up. So I saw, I, when I look at my YouTube, but not like my analytics and my comments and everything on like my, you know, Instagram, it's, it's consistently the same people, which is a good thing. Like, they always watch every single video. You can even tell, like, when I reach a certain, like, watch out. If I get like a hundred and something watch out from the first two days, I know it's the same people that are going to be commented, the same 30 people as well.

And I think it's still better to be consistent on something. if we end up like building a brand as well. Because often we just get so inadequate and you feel like less what a video and you're like, why am I already 12,000 subscribers on YouTube? I need to get more. I need to get more as well. Yeah. Do you want to touch on that a bit?

Absolutely. So there's two things about, you know, you're right. Like, first of all, getting hung up on the follower base. Like I would much rather have a highly curated community a lot of followers that are not really investive, right? Because the whole goal of end brand is to convert. Exactly. And some people forget that.

They get so hung up on follower accounts that they're scooping people. up that aren't really ever going to have any value. And that's what matters. And actually, this came up on a conference that I was speaking at. And somebody said, you know, sometimes I post something really funny and it gets like 10,000 views. And then I post something that's like really matters and is about my brand. It's 100 likes.

Like, how are you going to tell me that that's better than the views? And I said, which one converted? And he was like, huh. He's like, I was like, because you got that 10,000 views and you probably had a lot to people who are entertained. They loved it. It's way more views than what you've got in the other one. He said, how many conversations were started?

And he was like, well, not. And I said, what about the other one that got 100 likes that was educational? It was purely about your brain. It was speaking direction. Let's see where. And he said, I had three good conversations from that. And I said, so at the end of the day, don't place value in the 10,000 views. Place value in the three conversations.

We as a people were so obsessed with that vanity number, right? Like we we kind of create value now in our social media presence based on how it looks. And it's like that stuff can be purchased. It can be fake. Sometimes it's done even, you know, doesn't even really truly matter. You need to care about how it is creating dollars revenue for your business. And I've seen some pages that are smaller pages that are big million dollar companies, right? Because they have a highly curated audience that they're converting in the right way consistently.

You want to care more about that stuff than you do about the behind. Boom. I wish I was a mic drop for that. That was perfect. No, it's true what you're saying, because I was look at my, because I just literally, literally started the YouTube,

and it's people that just convert over, like, platforms, but they're all watching. You know what I'm saying? Every single person that subscribe is watching. And the nice thing about YouTube, it shows you, like, the count for the people that subscribe,

like, hang on, I haven't seen the person 10 years, but subscribe, you know, like, you see people that are still like showing genuine, like, you know, support, which is where it starts off, and then eventually you see one video

would do super well, and you get a we're not subscribers from that type of brand. And one thing I really appreciate is the fact that you can't, some things you can't really be around the bush because YouTube pays you to watch hours on your subscribers. So people that are watching are genuinely supporting and are interested in exactly what you're promoting as well. Which is for my next question.

So with marketing, it usually requires, you know, precision and a lot of creativity. What strategies does HVH marketing often like follow in terms of like campaigns to help the customers boost the fact they're of you should all that reach. So this answer makes some people excited, and then people who are very rooted and fixed, they hate this answer. And which had actually been on calls before where I've had like the CEO company who is had a great word bus say they needed my answer because they're not used to hearing it. But then I am end up doing really good job for them, so they change their mind.

I think that great marketing should always be tailored to the intentions and goals of whatever client you're working for, which means that our strategies are crafted individually and catered for each specific person that we work for. Okay. There might be some crossover with approach because there are certain things that work, but each person brings something unique and different, capturing that authentically and translating that in a real way that isn't just by the bulk marketing efforts. That's what makes us different.

and I have the luxury at this point in my career and business that I do not have to say yes to everyone. So I pick people according to how I know they're going to be able to work with us because we're not going to work for you. We're going to work with you and we're going to create a strategy that is unique for you and then we're going to execute. And there's certain participation in that, right? You know, we are not the final baton always. Sometimes we're that baton that gets past to you guys and there's that customer service element. And if you guys can't handle that stuff internally, we can send you all the leads in the world. But that's the part that's going to matter.

So we work with teens, you know, on every piece, every facet of the marketing journey. Because it's not as simple as just driving leads, it's driving traumatic brand awareness. It's the entire entity. And then that long-term goal that it's going to be focused on. And so that's typically what we work. Oh no, I love them. I love that so much. I want to share so another business that's going to be starting around like February

sometime. I want to get your insights on this. By the way, code winning, we love how those other podcasts have just been booming and something I want to talk to you about after you as well. But there's another business. So I have a online score that's connected to like my podcast.

If you watch an episode of office, it's called Winning Gov score, which is also. But I'm branching out. So I've got like about like, Five and goes six influencers. And I don't really care about their family. I care about their engagement because I don't care what you show. Like, I want to see if people are illusion-connected on a higher level

on the comment section and just share from all that and stuff. And so I looked at about five and I have partnered up with five of them. But how does this going to be working like? And I want to get your insight on this. So I'm going to be doing everything. So in other words, like my online stores converting into almost like a popular store which has got like a bunch of ambassadors with their own brand. Overall, like, kind of like, cool.

Exactly. So one of them has got like, let's say, we'll have like a shoot just shot like Logan because I love playing basketball. Then there's one girl who does like, she does the, she's a lintier who does like weight lifting, right? And so another gentleman, he used to play college football.

He was like a wide receiver down. In fact, I think it could have been in Arizona or Texas. I'll have to go in there. But they all have a certain story. They all have trials. But it's one of like where they put it. that you're brand and like winning stores connecting with them where I literally end up like I do all like the prints I do like I do everything in there and kind of like do like a partnership kind of thing

yeah so you get to monetize up of the their you know audience space their viewership exactly but then also simultaneously they benefit because you're handling all of the merchant hand or else they're exactly and that's still going to launch profits all they do they're just posting and they're just branding and like it's fun of the smart and there's a big need for that they have that for YouTubers. So there's something called Creator Inc. Where YouTubers actually have merch portals within Creator Inc. And they're able to house

all of their different merchandise, you know, outside of their own e-cons platforms, through there. And then that portal is one place that you can actually purchase from multiple different people at once. So instead of having buy from their individual stores, you can actually buy from most of the people all in one place and then they handle all

the logistics. But that's very similar to what you're doing. So you'd be actually representing you know, key influencers. Exactly. Having almost like a collaborative brand with your brand, your brand's still being pushed for its hub. Exactly. My question is, which is going to lead to that,

like, what would a step be to try and like, not necessarily like use my audience, the audience together, but what's the next that just try and like just push that in terms of like SEOs or so forth as well? Well, I mean, I would make sure that I had a segmented page for it and then I would start creating collaborative posts that, were fixed on the actual story elements, like why this person, right? And how it ties back into your window brand. And so you need, you know, almost like a campaign strategy that is consistent, right?

This person is this based off a rear brand because of this. And then they would still tell their unique story. And then you would collaborate on that. And then you would talk about what kind of merchandise? And I would get creative with the types of merchandise he would do. So that each specific person had something that still fulfilled exactly what your brand is, but it was unique to them so that each time their audience numbers came in, they would be receiving exactly what it is that they were looking for,

but you would be championed at it. Okay, no, that sounds perfect. I like that. Yeah, it's like it's in the works, but it's something that's an exciting quadrice. My piece was great. Yeah, no. It's going to be exciting. I'm interested, interested to see where that goes.

Because I can see very quickly that taking off. And you becoming a hub for other influencers interested in doing the same thing. and wanting almost like if you could get, you know, different segments of people, right? Like this is the music community on here. This is the workout community on here. This is the this community on here. And then be able to define by category on your page so that you could get brought to different influencers by specific categories that people like to follow. Because if you're somebody who's a healthy eater and you're on Instagram, you're usually regularly following a lot of the same creators or you're a mom and you're following all of the mom in toilet service. If you were

able to kind of create these little themes segments within your channel where it was like, okay, here's like our mom influence or bidder all these people in, you could actually create a large collaborative effort where all of them collaborated with you and everyone collectively. They would all be able to share in each other's audiences because they would all have crossover what would be relevant to. And you could create this very vast network that then would also help Push-mergeny, wherever we win. Not as you know, that's why we're going Hayden, say some 2028 for president.

You heard a jiff for, right? And that'd be your VEQ you don't know. I'm not born, ridden. You know, I'll just be like to say, your state, right? I'll point you to something, but. No, I want to, I love, I was just print coin perfect,

but I'm excited for that as well. I wanted to, um, like, I studied economics. I graduated with the financial economics, right? But one of the first principles I loved that, It just blew my mind that I love going in depth with in economics. The fact that it's called diminishing law in like martial utility. Obviously, in other words, the more we consume of one thing, the less desire we have to consume the next thing. And why I'm going with this is there's a thing in social media sometimes that people can have him a quick takeoff

and then automatically they start becoming less and less like irrelevant or rather doesn't get the same reach as well. a quick spike. I want to just give an example like that of hub to a girl. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. She, I liked what she did.

She ended up like capitalizing on that opportunity. Wait. She rose the wave and like it just kept going. And I feel like I don't care. Yeah, I don't care what like the whole thing is. But the fact that people capitalize on an opportunity is so important and stay relevant whether you like to remind.

Because there's nothing like negative like, you know, media is. Media is me as well going to be like positive in one way, right? Yeah. Absolutely. So I want to. talk about how do people continue to stay relevant to kind of like get reach and still like

don't get like you know less and less like reach and so forth so so someone like the Hoctura girl she has a unique issue there right like she didn't set out with an intention to go viral she went viral

kind of against her will right and she was able to capitalize on that which is always good if you have something like that that happens you capitalize but for her, it's very hard to build a consistent move forward grant that isn't going to eventually plateau and taper out, right? Now, when you're talking about other people who are working towards going viral, and this is something you actually touched on in the ink, it's important. Something like the algorithm for TikTok when you're kind of first starting out, although I don't think TikTok converts the level that something like an Instagram does or even a Facebook, because you just have a user that's a little bit more of the age range that has the dollars and is also more. susceptible to advertising that comes from social media. What is TikTok is more predominantly

for brand awareness and also just kind of for fun, right? Like there's a certain level of entertainment. But for people who are working to go viral, TikTok is great and early adopting any platform is great. Like I have over 250,000 followers on TikTok. And that was because I was an early adopter. I clayed into the culture of TikTok for a time. And, you know, then in some ways I felt out of love with it. It was very easy to have multiple viral moments and it still is. Kids really just knowing what levers to pull, knowing how to participate, knowing how to base something your own and to capitalize on it while it's happening. It's all about timeliness. So to me, seeing relevant is still staying true to yourself, trying things out, seeing what's

working and then keeping at it. Sometimes with TikTok, you don't actually get panelists for reposted either. If you think something was really good and you're like, God, I just used the wrong sound or I've hosted it at the wrong time. Like, hit it again. Like, there is a lot of value in going, no, and I know this is going to win and keeping at it being persistent and continuing with it. And so, you know, it's hard when you have somebody who is like a one-hit blunder because there's that in everything. And I think that there is a good way that can be ridden. But I feel like you really got to start defining yourself as what you're going to be and how you're going to accomplish it as a separate thing.

And it needs to either fall into that kind of. category. So like the Hoctua girl, right? She has this one hit wonder. She has a very heavy male audience. Sox 99 for 99.99. So the best way that she could ride that way, if people were going to buy in, would be to align with male-oriented brands, ones that are going to still fair. And frankly, I'd hate to say this, but she's someone who would probably benefit from going into the only fans' weld. I mean, she was a teacher and stuff like that. I don't think that's her realm. But like, that would be an easy continuation of the wave.

But I think about some of the other people, you know, and how they've taken advantage of some of those viral moments. But I think that it's more important to go viral for the right reasons. And I think that if there's a little bit more work into it and taking a little bit more time to push some envelopes with your brand, but be intentional, there's way more value in going viral with a little bit of planning than when you have something like that that you're essentially going to have to take the big hit, capitalize on the moment, and then find a really good investor to take advantage of and how you're going to be financially secure moving forward. There's a lot of dollars that come in in those moments. I mean, she really could set herself up for life if she were to keep her previous kind of lifestyle. If she took all of that, monetized it, rode that wave, which is usually like three to five years. And even if she did nothing, really, that happened as much after that. But the problem with something like that, too, is somebody, the next talk to one comes up.

But the problem as well is that I feel like every viral moment comes at the expense of something extreme. You know what I'm saying? Not necessarily even extreme and like doing, but extreme insane. You know what I'm saying? I'll have to be something super crazy. You know what I'm crazy. I'm crazy. I don't want to make,

I don't want to become controversial, but I look at like a lot of people that still rode the wave in a, in a positive thumb of green negative. I want to go to Candace or words. I don't know if you watch like, yeah. Okay. So I think she's one of the most intelligent people in terms of like, you know,

media. But at that one time, she was saying something completely controversial to the African-Americans as well and that she drew an audience of people that thought that couldn't say something but like she had that kind of like voice kind of thing, you know what I'm saying? And I look at

there was another person there's another what's her name? It's not like her on Twitter. She seems to be training. She was from the UK and yeah but she's saying stuff like woman can vote kind of thing and she's getting a crazy base

of males that are like to know following her and saying like you know woman shouldn't do that but she's a woman and saying all these very controversial stuff but like if they actually clack holes and like okay like we're tired you're in the exact same like thing like what's the next step and you have to go more crazy crazy

the reason I'm going with this topic I'm like does it always have to be super something super extreme or she could go just go and just say something that genuinely feel without an actually genuine for you this ball I don't understand that question no of course and what you're actually talking about there's a term for it they call it rage bait

okay okay so rage bait is when you post something you know purely because it's got to be controversial So purely because it's going to anger somebody or rile somebody out or even bring some people who you probably don't even necessarily whole art of they agree with out of the woodworks. Like it's a way of getting everybody talking. And there's, you know, some channels that are totally built on that. Actually, I'm thinking of one right now where this girl consistently comes out and she's like, I let my husband cheat on me. Like everybody starts the same way.

And then it's like always her husband had like a girlfriend in the background. And I'm not even sure that that's really their dangaping. But because you could trust the algorithm to show up the best. many different people at so many different times and somebody's going to have an opinion, you know, it creates views. And then frankly, all she has to do then is create partnerships with products that makes sense for that. And, you know, she starts having an entire platform that you can monetize. I typically am not a huge fan of that. From a marketing perspective, it is a way to get things done and might a more chaotic, less consistent. And I feel like

your community doesn't necessarily convert the way it does if you do things the right way in marketing. And so, like, yes, rage bait exists. And also, anytime that you're a public figure like a Candace Owens, you know, like a Charlie Kirk, you're going to have opinions sometimes as a human that if 99% of the time somebody's agreeing with you, you're going to say something that seems a little bit off. Right. And a lot of times it's out of context or it's not really the intention and it gets miscommunicated. That's the other, you know, the fun fact of being, you know, somebody who is, like, I'll call like, I, like, go and try and rip everything you out to say apart, right?

So I've seen so many of these things, and I'm actually somebody who, it tends to be, like, I love to know and look for the entire piece, book where I make judgments on people. And I, I'm sure, even, like, he said, she's incredibly intelligent, and I even have moments where I'm like, well, I'm not so sure about that one. Exactly. So that's how it's spot over. At first, I just thought it was the, I don't like personally, I don't want to get to the, I don't like the whole, like, George Floyd, pair of scons on it,

was so extreme. I'm like, he can't have an opinion without trying like literally belittle somebody that just literally like I passed away. And obviously I know like he wasn't like the most perfect person. But like it, there's some extreme stuff. But that's when she actually took off as well like in terms of flowing up because the sign of people that just felt like she was right but also can't really say like themselves. Hold on like. I always wonder to allow that a little bit. Didn't she always kind of wonder and obviously not getting political, But didn't you always kind of wonder if she had a team behind her pushing her to be a little bit more. I like that.

Because they knew. They knew. And again, this comes back to exactly what we're talking about, right? It is so much better to be for who you are for because she has a very loyal base. Her entire brand has been built and taken off. And like the people who are for her for her, they're dying. In the comments, they'll fight you for against her. You know what I'm saying?

And that, that's what you want. You want somebody who, and the way to do that is it. to be soft, right? And that's something that she does very well. She bridges that gap of like, you know, you can't go right here and get these people and these people, right? You have to pick my these pinkle and my piece. And even I have sometimes have a hard in time with that. You know, as I've built my brand, I've been somebody who I've had to be really cautious about, you know, when it was first building it, I had to hone in on exactly who I knew I was catering to. But what's really interesting is when I first started my personal brand and wanted to kind of use myself as a guinea pig for my own marketing ideas, I went stereotypical, right?

I went archetypal male fantasy. I got all the things. I marketed myself to males. It was super easy to scoop up. I fed into it, fed it, fed it, fed into it. And I went, huh, well, this is really who I want to be. Like, I'm able to do this and I'm able to take this persona. But now that I'm putting in business, this is really hard to explain to people.

I'd be in on meetings and they'd be like, you have this whole persona over here, but you're like, I'm seeing you in person and you're nothing like this. And I'm like, yeah, I know I need to, I need to make this pivot. And pivoting from an all male audience to a female audience that converts. It's a challenging one, which I've done. So I've actually breached that gap. So now I have a very heavy female base and it took a lot to create that transition. But again, one more thing I was able to prove to myself as my own marketing expertise is that how you handle it and how you go about being. for someone and embodying that is what's important, and it's okay to do so. But that journey is what's matter. Oh, wow. I love that so much. And I think it's very hard as well, because like if you're reading the male with a male audience, male, they're very consistent and they're very supportive. They'll like anything at your post, even if you're like, I'm just reading a book right now. Offrey's so beautiful. I love Patrick. You know what I'm saying? So that's about women are a much harder audience and I actually love that you're acknowledging this. Appealing to women is has been a much harder journey for me, but a much more valuable one because women, they're

loyal. They convert much better than men. They made a lot of different like buying decisions. And, you know, I feel like my female base, I, I feel very, I love my female followers. Like, I feel very invested in them. You know, the male followers and how I built them and how I scooped them up and even some of the men who have come over that are still a part of my branch now, they're invested. They remember me before when I was catering to my male audience. and they still love me now and they like all of the different facets that they see of me.

But you're absolutely right. There's something to be said about understanding the different, you know, genders as far as how they convert, how they operate from the psychological perspective and how they participate in the social media sphere and how they affect kind of our consumer world. And it's fascinating in something that I definitely consider

all of the time to support. I love that so much. And we just spoke about it previously about those loyal, almost stands, but even fans that some people have. Like, Candace Lowndes has that. Andrew Tate has that. I mean, even our current president has that, like the MAGA movement.

Like, I personally feel like, a lot of the social media mega. There's a certain MACs don't even have social media that are going to be at every single rally and, like, they just love their president and kind of thing. And one thing they're all having common, which you just pointed out is that they stick to what they believe regardless. And they go, like, should...

I would even say extreme, but they just stick to their principle. You know what I'm saying? And it may come out, you may not agree with that. Because even like the megabase didn't agree much of the vaccine. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, gosh, we love this guy, but what's those vaccine is pushing? You know what I'm saying? And I feel like it's important to, let me correct before,

just to always stick to what you really believe in as much as possible and your principal of yourself. Yes. I feel like also the other thing that we don't do a bad job of explaining and telling people is that you are allowed to change your mind, as long as that you have. have a good explanation for doing so. I think sometimes people get so fixed on their fritzicles that even even Trump has done this.

He's gone, hey, I've changed my opinion on this. And a lot of people who were not necessarily Trump supporters have gone, oh, see, this see, flip-ploppy, sorry, I'm hitting your mic because I'm a gesture. But he came out and he handled it in a way where it was very eloquent, where he was like, no, I found out more information and I changed my stance on this. I was like, oh, I can respect that. And I've done that even. Like, I've actually had to answer for a lot of the people who are from further back in my, you know, personal grand, where I was more sexy and I was more out there and it was more edgy and it was more outspoken. And I'm like, I've had to answer about that because some people are, you know, very much to be, quick to be like, well, we haven't forgotten that side of you. And it's like, yeah, neither have I. As beast of me, like, she's still here. She's just not coming out to play as often. She's married as differently now. And it's okay to change who you are and wear, you know, different hats in your life and pivot. And I feel like when I, but I owe people an explanation, right?

And I think that there's nothing wrong with that. But you're absolutely right. And there's certain ethical and principle-based things about me that never change. But there's some other things that they're open to evolution. I love that. That's a perfect answer. That's a perfect answer. Which leads to my next question, you've, your company or you, you know,

you've also held a lot of campaigns that have generated over a billion views, right? Now, not just for the viral moments, but how important was that in order to try and kind of transfer that you'd trade up sale in someone's business? Oh, it's crucial. The time where I did the billion campaign views came almost right at the start of the YouTube influencer era of the cosmetics. Okay. And it was something that, you know, with negotiation, I could do a 30,000.

spend and see half a million dollars come in immediately. And when you're talking about margins and things like that's awesome, keep in mind, you know, YouTube content is ever bringing. So if something gets posted and it's converting, it has the appropriate linking. That $30,000 spend, your initial, you know, tracking of revenue that comes in, it hits here. But over time, that does millions of dollars. And so you see that initial hit and then that video just sits up. So then you create multiple categories. Because each of these videos was doing 10 marine cross views, converting the sales, then I was hitting multiple markets, then were a kind of user base, knowing exactly where I was going to commit these spends, and then you end up with a billion

views very quickly. Because some of these things were just taking off. I mean, this was the age of all of the cosmetic influencers that was like eight of them, whatever they said went, being friends with them, having relationships with them made the difference. So I created a relationship with Makeup Buy Mario's sister and was able to get our products used live on stage on Kim Kardashian for free. I said donate products, you know,

and it was awesome. I mean, I put myself and, you know, our company in so many important rooms and so many people. I actually got to meet Kim Kardashian. She was really, really kind. And, you know, work over a lot of the influencers and sit down with them. And the thing that was most important is every time I was

in those rooms, I was never a fan. I was equal. And I think people negate the power of that because these people are used to fans all the time. If you're going to do business with these features, you need to go in there like you're one of them. Awesome. No, I love that so much. I really appreciate that. And I know as we have about a conclude as well, I want to touch, the business side of things is always so exciting and the marketing side of things either even better as well. But another important calling that you had as well is obviously being a mother as well. That's one of things in your social readers that there's a perfect balance where you can always just you always love your

children and so forth, how do you balance, you know, being a mother and running a very successful marketing company as well, because it does require a lot of job at home as well. So you can touch on that too. Yeah, so I don't speak. No. Well, uh, well, first of all, I have a very supportive partner and he's very hands-on, very involved, also an entrepreneur. And like today, he's been chauffeuring me around, you know, he's been super dad helping with the kids. Like, he's just awesome. And so I can't pretend that I can do it alone. Plus, I also have a father who also interjects, and he's the person I can call if I need a quick pickup because of my meeting grandmom or whatever that looks like. So it does take a village, but I carve out time and I make time and I'm very intentional about my time.

And I've tried to kind of create a life and business around what matters most to me. And so my business is very much important and it's a baby in its own way. But if I lost everything today and I've even kind of said this, like, you know, your family's going to be the one to hold your hand when you're sick, right? But your business is going to pay for it. So you do it in that order. And that's how you're going to be taken care of. And so I just deeply, deeply value my role with a mother.

I've used entrepreneurship to create that space for myself so that I could be a So I can make sure I am the one who does the pickups and I'm at the martial arts stuff and I'm at the swimming mommy and knees and the gymnastic classes. Like I do it all and I make time for it all and it matters. And there's a certain level of delegation and there's a certain level of, you know, rolling with the conscience. But I wouldn't trade it for anything. I love everything about my life. Awesome stuff. Last two questions.

Yeah. Last two questions. What is the most rewarding part of your journey? Like, you know, obviously being divorced, going through the trial period, like 2019, starting with your company. That whole, like, journey that you've been through, what's the most rewarding part? That's always being a mom. No matter what I accomplish in business, I always love that because I know I'm doing it for that. It's like every single time that I have those moments that I think, God, I accomplish more.

Like, this is, this means more for them. And this is something I can show the mom. And I always feel like being mom is always first for me. And then, you know, just seeing my own capabilities, my own resiliency, and then that belief and power in yourself that comes with entrepreneurship and succeeding. Because when you hit those really, really low moments and you watch all the people that, you know, they leave in that time frame, right? Like when you're shedding layers and you're growing, you're going to shend people and relationships they didn't necessarily think you're going to have to shed to the next level. And every time I survive.

And I feel like we always have hard moments that come up again. And I always remind myself, I survived the one before, so I will do it again. And I think that that's the other piece that's when celebrate is like my own resiliency and how I've been able to kivit and evolve over these years. I know I'll continue to do so. And then I'll have this beautiful family that is at the core of everything. That's very powerful. Thank you so much for that.

Last question. Now we all see every single I guess this. thing when they come in. The coach winning insights you need today to seize the world tomorrow. Everyone's got a different definition for what winning is. In your own opinion, what defines winning? Winning is completely subjective. And me, and you've seen me say it, to me winning is that freedom,

that freedom that comes with a certain level of financial success so that I can be the kind of mother that provides, memories and a beautiful childhood and opportunity to my children and my family. And that means leaving a mark and a legacy that is well-rounded. It's not merely she was just this or she was just this. She was everything and did it well. And that to me is wedding. Powerful. If you could let our viewers and audience know where they could get a whole of HVH marketing, if they want to try and upscale their business, if they want marketing, if they want leads, just let them know where they get a hold of you, your social media and so forth as well. So if you want to try to have

want to contact me, my website is always the best place, HVHmarketing.com, but you can also contact me. I'll give you my email, Hayden at HVHmarketing.com. You can speak with me directly. I really do look forward talking with each and every one of you. The coach-winning insights you need today to seize the world to far. Hayden, thanks.