The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Aruba Ray (PART 2)

Episode Date: November 19, 2021

Ray Ellin is a comic and the Executive Producer of This Week at the Comedy Cellar on Comedy Central. He is the founder of www.comedycloud.co

🎵 This is Live from the Table, the official podcast of New York's world-famous comedy cellar. Coming at you on Sirius XM 99, Raw Dog and the Laugh Button Podcast Network. This is Dan Natterman. By the way, does Raw Dog have any other meaning other than unprotected sex? Is there any other meaning for the phrase Raw Dog? I don't know.

I wish I saw the kind of technology that I carried around in my pocket. Well, I thought maybe you knew offhand. I'm just saying. I really have no, I guess I have to go to the library and look at microfiche. I'll never be able to figure that out. I thought you might have known offhand. Fair question. Raw dog.

Let's look it up right now. Ladies and gentlemen, raw dog food. Google, you know, I like the autocomplete, but sometimes it's like, I don't need you to add words, Google. To have sexual intercourse without natural or synthetic lubrication. Oh, what do you mean without natural? What do you mean without natural?

Dry, without natural or synthetic lubrication. But doesn't your body produce lubrication? Well, not when Noam's involved. I've never seen that. What are you talking about? How does that happen? But I thought raw dog meant without a condom. I didn't know.

Well, it might have had to. The point I'm making is... So it does have another meaning, yeah. Yeah, but the other meaning is very close to the meaning that we thought. In other words, look, this is Raw Dog Radio, let's face it, and we're bringing in these intellectuals, and it's just it feels off-brand.

But anyway. Well, today you have me as your resident intellectual. Periel Ashenbrand is here, as you have ascertained. He is our producer. Noam Dorman, of course course the owner Of the Comedy Cellar We were supposed to have Aruba Ray Allen I'm in the raw dog house tonight

Cause Ray Allen This is the first We've never had a guest cancel 10 minutes before the show Before And refused to answer Text messages It was about an hour

Before that he first It was actually about 30 minutes No I didn't hear about it Until around 10 minutes No no no It was 30 minutes Well whenever Yes Ray Allen canceled In a huff It was actually about 30 minutes. No, I didn't hear about it until around 10 minutes. No, no, no. It was 30 minutes.

Well, whenever, yes, Ray Allen canceled. In a huff. He felt that he had little to gain by being on the show. And quite frankly, he probably did have little to gain by being on the show. So this is what happened. So I don't know. First of all, I'm so stressed I took a shot of vodka. So last week, Ray, Ellen kind of came at me. Nicole, you need a mic.

She doesn't want to get dragged into it. How do you know what she wants? Because I've asked her every single show. Sometimes girls play hard to get. So Nicole. What is she wearing, though, is the real question. So last week, Nicole, just come here. Just stand

up so I can see you. I do have a mic also. Oh, she has a mic! I do. I just keep quiet. Okay, Nicole's our audiologist or I don't know. What do you call it? So, our engineer. So do you remember last week's show? Yes. So do you remember last week Ray Allen came at me

about how much money I was making from the TV show? Yeah. What's your recollection of that? That you were on very different pages about it. But why did he bring it up to begin with? Well, what happened was is you snapped at him for texting whilst we were on doing the show. And you said, you're never coming back. But I was joking.

You were joking, but he took it seriously. Okay, so let's, no. You know, you think for a comic who tells rousting jokes for a living, he would know not to take it. You did sound serious. No, I was serious, and I was annoyed that he was texting, but I wasn't never coming back.

But go ahead, Nicole. I thought it started with the website. Like, that's where the beef started, and it somehow escalated into that. All right. So that's very good. See, so he started by saying, you know, your website sucks. Well, you were making fun of his website.

You had said that his website had a bad.co. You were making fun of his.co first, which he didn't, you know. No, no, because he had actually texted me saying, you should really take care of your website. Okay. And I i said you you text me about taking my website and you have dot co but then but then it's right so then he said the website was bad but this is all this is all okay and then go ahead nicole go ahead i don't really remember how we got there i just remember the website and then it just we got there when he's you said uh you're never coming back on the show again he took it more seriously than you meant that he said, really?

Well, you should have you don't have me on very often. And which is pretty shitty because I did this helped you with your show. So he said, because I'm a good guest. And he said that again. He said that he was upset because every time he gets invited on, it's to like defend himself against something. Well, no, last time. First of all, that's that's that's that's that's the kind of logic that you go to couples therapy over

because he had a fight with Paul Mercurio, right? Who was the fight? I had a fight with Paul Mercurio. Who did Ray have a fight with? Ray had a fight with somebody. Who's Paul Mercurio? Anyway, so it's all jumbled in my head. But anyway, the point is this.

He did what I thought was crossing a line that everybody knows he brought up our private financial business my private financial business even though he got it wrong and he said that I made and he said a million dollars which is far from the truth off this TV show

which he claimed I don't remember what did he say because it's hard for me to distinguish between what I know that he thinks and has said in the past and what he said on the show. Did he say that he got the show? What did he say? I really don't want to be involved

in having this discussion because he's not here. I know he's not here voluntarily. Well, he could be here. But nonetheless. Dan, say the real reason you don't want to be in conversation. Because he's your friend. You don't want to get in trouble with him. Well, yes.

He is my friend. That's fine. I am on record as saying I believe his role in the show was substantial in getting it on the air. Listen, this is... I like Ray a lot. This has nothing to do with him personally. I'm just annoyed that we're stuck here

without a fucking guest now. So anyway, so he got- Even though I actually quite like doing it. So to be honest, I was a little miffed that he said that about the show and about the money as if the way I read it, and Nicole, you correct me. Nicole, I like your point of view. You correct me. Um, as if he resented the fact that I made more money than he did as if the guy

who, um, now this may be not be what I might say now might not be fair to Ray. So Dan, you, you feel afraid to defend him. I'm going to tell him what I took it as. But I'm reading mine, so I could be totally off. But I took it as if, let's say for the sake of argument, I made a million dollars on that show. Okay. Okay, this was my end of the show. I thought of the idea. I own the club.

And I thought of the idea that I own the club. And I thought of the idea that I own the club. I brought the show to various people. And I guess I told him about the show when he introduced me to this guy, Michael Hirshhorn. I think that's what happened. And Michael Hirshhorn sold the show to Comedy Central because he used to work at VH1 for the guy who was then at Comedy Central.

That's what Ray did. On what planet in terms of ordinary course of business would our compensation not be wildly different? Well, just a couple of points. I don't think he resented you making more. And why does he constantly bring it up?

Because I think he wants a little bit of gratitude on your part that you did make a lot. I made a few hundred thousand dollars, to be honest. That's what I made for over three years. I don't think it mattered how much he made, nor is it any of anybody's business. I don't know what he made.

I think when you say that he introduced you to Michael Hirshhorn and you leave his contribution at that, I think you underestimate it because he kept it. As I recall, there was about two years elapsed between the initial meeting with Michael Hirshhorn and the, and the, and the thing getting on the air. And I believe he kept it alive during that time, um, through various means. Maybe this would be nice if he were here too. Maybe, I don't, I don't know, but maybe he did. I don't know anything about that. Because I don't think it was just quite as easy as,

okay, good idea, let's do it. I think it needed a lot of maintenance along the way. Like what? Well, this would be something that he could discuss. And by the way, this show idea was so hot that literally I got cold calls from other production companies who heard about the idea and wanted

to allow me to let them to sell it. This is what I want to say. I think that I'm annoyed that Ray's not here. I don't think it's fair that he didn't show up. But I also, and I love him so, but like I get it, he's upset. But I also do want to say this. I don't know

all the crazy Mishigas bullshit here, but I do. We've also got complaints about the show being too Jewy. But I. Well, that's my complaint. But I do think that you're generally a very fair person. Oh, my God. Periel.

So. What are you going to ask me for? No, nothing. But so, like, I feel like maybe Ray's feelings are hurt. Yeah, I'm sorry. So I really listen to the end of the show, even though it was Periel's idea to air. Yeah, I'm sorry. So I re-listened to the end of the show, even though it was Periel's idea to air it. Oh, will you knock it off?

But I felt that that guy, Bloom, what was his first name? Paul. Paul. I was going to say Paul, but I was getting it wrong. We had another guest, Arthur Bloom, one time. He had a great time, by the way. Is he going to text it? He did.

He tweeted. Paul Bloom, who's like a major world-class intellectual. Was kind of called into this dysfunctional spat. And I was a little embarrassed by it. So I feel like I wanted to explain, listen, don't mind us. We're a bunch of idiots. And so then you said we should air it out.

And then at the end, I guess I said, I felt like I just wanted to like troll Ray a little bit. Okay, well, are you apologizing? I guess, I guess I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna claim total innocence here, but I don't feel I was the aggressor. Okay, but you're apologizing a little bit? No, I'm not apologizing.

I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not sorry. We can circle back. Well, if I had to do over, what would I do differently? I would have still told him not to text message. I would still made fun of him because as he knows better, see Dan's texting now. No, no, no, I wasn't not texting.

But what I'm doing is no better than texting. It's distracting. But as he knows better than anybody as a performer, that when you're involved in something, you're supposed to have fidelity to the enterprise. So if a customer's looking through their phone while he's on stage, he's going to refer to it. If you're alone in a room doing a podcast,

and it's just a few of us there, and you start text messaging, it's disconcerting. It's disrespectful to what's going on. Also, as the guy who's talking, I need material. Like, you know, I got to talk. I have to say something. So it's like, what am I going to say? Like, what the fuck are you text messaging for? Because as Dan or Steve Fabric has said, it's good radio too.

Like even if I exaggerate it a little bit for the sake of performance well although i wasn't exaggerating i was i was i probably under i i was actually more upset about it than i indicated like i probably made a joke out of it when i was like what the fuck is this guy text messaging but anyway um the point is that he understands that it's fodder right and he's a professional he's a fucking professional so if he if from that giving him a hard time about text messaging, he felt then he could escalate it to a public speculation about my finances. Don't forget, the top 1% are not well loved these days, Dan. It's like, you know, I think he crossed the line. I'd say he was the first person to actually cross the line.

I think what I did was within the realm of traditional give and take on a show for a guy who was text messaging. What would Howard Stern say if somebody was text messaging? He'd say, what the fuck are you text messaging? Like, he would use that.

But to come back at Howard Stern about, listen, I heard you made $300 billion. I'd say, Howard Stern, get mad. What it? That's what I say. Okay, you know, I heard you made $300 billion. I think Howard Stern would get mad. Would it? That's what I say. Nicole? What's up? What do you say about it? Be honest.

Are you Howard Stern in this situation? Of course. He's Howard Stern in every situation. In any analogy, I'm just saying that... I'm not texting. I'm calling up my talking points. Oh, that's fine. I'm just saying that I don't think... I'm not aggressive and I don't think. Oh no, not at all. I wasn't being aggressive towards Ray.

Are you aggressive towards me when we discuss things like abortion? Aggressive is not the word. Oh, what's the word? A low tolerance for stupidity. Sorry. I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this.

You're really walking. I take that back. You're walking a fine line. Go ahead. Noam wanted Nicole's perspective. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If Nicole's willing to give it.

Sure. I guess it was kind of weird that he brought it up, and it seemed like you were trying to just squash it or hash it out, but he didn't want to talk about it anymore and just shut it down after his initial comment? I actually have no recollection. I find that I have zero recollection of these podcasts after I do them, but go ahead.

I don't know if you want to talk about other things. I think we've said what needs to be said. First of all, has the Rittenhouse verdict come out yet? Come down. All Dan is doing during this entire conversation is thinking, okay, what am I going to say when Ray brings this up to me? What am I going to say when Ray brings that up to me?

He's totally petrified. I'm not petrified, but Dan, if you lose your Aruba gig, I'll step in. All right. Okay. All right.

That's the only thing he cares about. No, it's, um, in any case... Listen, I love Ray Allen. I have no beef with him. Okay, well, we should have him on

and bring him some chocolate, even though I'm a little bit annoyed. But anyway, are we going to be having this conversation in a year about stupid? We might be. Oh, your stupid thing, your show. Listen, Periel did a show and... Periel did a show Periel's doing Periel's doing a show

And it was It's animated now Anyway, the Rittenhouse verdict Has not come down yet It probably will By the time this airs Tomorrow night But as of now

There is no verdict On the Rittenhouse What do you think About Rittenhouse, Dan? I haven't been paying Strict attention Have you been watching the trial? That's a great talking point

It is But I thought The verdict would have Come down by now We could just talk About the mayhem strict attention. Have you been watching the trial? That's a great talking point. It is, but I thought the verdict would have come down by now. We could just talk about the mayhem. Or the not mayhem. You're hoping for riots? I think if he gets off, it's going to be tense.

I don't think it's going to be riots, but I think it's going to be very tense stuff. Well, I mean, it seems to me, if you read about it, it's pretty hard to see how he gets convicted. They threw out the gun charge. I mean, I'm not me, if you read about it, it's pretty hard to see how he gets convicted. They threw out the gun charge. It's, I mean, I'm not sure there's enough evidence to sustain a civil verdict, you know, 51%. But beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn't defending himself, how could anybody go there? It doesn't, it defies.

Are you predicting then, and as again, when this airs, it'll probably be, the verdict will probably be. Yeah, I guess. Are you predicting an acqu and again, when this airs, the verdict will probably be decided? Yeah, I guess. Are you predicting an acquittal on all charges? I'm predicting it, but not with a high degree of confidence because I don't understand. I didn't watch it, and I don't know how juries operate, and there could be some intimidation of the jury, although I don't think, like I felt with the Derek Chauvin thing,

the jury was clearly scared, would have been scared. It had to be on their radar. But here I have no idea. But yeah, if if things are based on the evidence, I don't see know it was it's it's a bad idea to let people walk around with with uh with these guns in that situation but it was legal to do i think or maybe he was underage but no they turned well they threw out the charge that he was underage because apparently the gun measured uh longer than the the law restricted guns below a certain measurement. So the gun was actually legal. But even if it had been illegal,

it would have been a misdemeanor. If he had been 18, it would have been perfectly legal to carry even a shorter gun. Why is this kid walking around with this gun? I don't understand why he's got a planet. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Listen, the law, this is what people don't understand my God, what planet. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Listen, the law,

this is what people don't want to accept. The law tells us what we're allowed to do and what we're not allowed to do. Period. And if the law allows you to do it, you can complain all you want

about him doing it, but you can't bring that into a criminal trial. He's allowed to carry out. And by the way, when the Times analyzed the video, this is going back a year already, I remember this,

in that video of just following him, they heard 16 other gunshots that were not his, which is to say that a reasonable person going around that night would have wanted to carry a gun if they could do so legally because it was dangerous as hell. It was a riot. People were shooting guns.

The reasonable person probably would have stayed home, but that's not relevant legally. Well, I mean, would a reasonable person stay home? Yes. A reasonable person would stay home. Am I ready to say that a reasonable person would not endeavor to protect innocent property or innocent lives, wouldn't want to be out there to try to help? He was an EMT. He had his medical thing. The Times followed him giving medical aid prior to this. Is that an unreasonable person? I mean, I wouldn't want my kids to do it.

But he doesn't even have to be a reasonable person if it's legal for him to carry the gun. Right, but I'm saying it's... The word reasonable person there can be taken in a few different ways. Like, you could actually say in a certain sense that anybody who's brave, anybody who risks their safety to help is unreasonable.

I think that's what we're verging on. He's also 17, so he's probably got immature ideas. Maybe he's an avid Fox News watcher or right-wing news watcher, and he's worked up about this stuff. But in the end, based on what we know, he was out there with medical, giving medical aid, and other people, and we know that the people who he shot,

one of them was out there uh you know yelling the n-word and turning stuff up and lighting stuff on fire another person hit him with a skateboard and the other person grabbed his gun i think i'm getting it all right i don't know all i know so where's the murder well didn't he kill two people three people yeah he shot killed three people his mother drove him across state lines this is a dead giveaway what is that since when you're you know that his mother drove him from newark to manhattan like whoever has okay who cares even in the same state but yeah but hold on it is fair enough but i saying. This is such a giveaway on the bias here because why are people harping on this crossing state lines thing? This is some sort of moral weight to crossing a state line in the United States of America. Don't harp on that.

Fine. Take that out. I mean, imagine a mother driving this kid with a fucking gun. I don't understand. It's psychotic. Well, you know why he went to Kenosha? Because the whole rest of his family lived there. This is another thing they didn't report.

It came out. Listen, the whole thing. His family lives in Kenosha, his father and his sister. So he was, so they had him interviewed before the thing on the daily call or something. And he said, I'm here to protect my neighborhood. And they said, is it your neighborhood? He's like, yeah, my,, yeah, my family lives here. Okay, first of all, I'm going to pause you for a second.

I think that this whole thing is nuts, but I'm going to pause you for a second. I have two things to say. Number one, all you do is complain that all we do is talk about political stuff. All we were doing was talking about comedy. You changed the topic to this, number one. Number two, Ray Allen just texted me and said

the gnome asked me if i'd go on zoom i will if you want i'll send him send him a link nicole we're here with aruba ray ellen he he was with us on the last episode he has come back to defend his honor and his good name against gnome's uh declarations uh we We discussed at the top of the show, just we summarized last week's discussion about the This Week at the Comedy Cellar TV show that aired on Comedy Central about, I guess it was three years ago, two years ago. You summarized the tail end, Dan, after I left?

At the end, Noam said that Ray had issues with the disparity in terms of Noam making a lot of money and Ray making less money. And Noam had said that he felt Ray might have been resentful. First of all, I'm not sure where, why you would think that, but I'm not resentful of that show for a second. I think it was great for so many people involved, you know? And I don't, I have zero, I'm puzzled. I have absolutely no resentment at all. I'm very content with what I earned and, and whatever you made, you made, I don't care. It was that, you know, whatever I said,

it was a joke in response to know I'm saying whatever he said when I was texting during the show, I took out my phone to text Liz, the GM that I was going to be maybe late for her show for the show. I'm sorry. At the VU that I was hosting around the corner, the village on the ground and also to look up the cecily strong video that uh dan had referenced that's why it was on my phone because everybody at some point picks up their cell phones as no i'm just did that was a joke ray ah i guess well in any case um and then there's also the issue of Ray Allen's role, which we have discussed in the Comedy Central show.

I believe Ray Allen's role was key. That is to say, if it weren't for Ray Allen, I don't think that show would have made it to the air. Noam doesn't feel that way, I don't believe. To be honest, I don't have that much recollection of it, but I'll tell you this. You know what? I'm going to bind here because I... Well, let's just say this.

Just tell me what to say. No, no, no. The point is that one of the things that Ray said was that he was sick of coming on and feeling like he had to somehow defend himself. You had said said and if you go back and you listen to the beginning of this episode that you were really just you know trolling him and fucking around because you were annoyed about something that he brought up but had wasn't

really related to his role or anything like that and And Ray was also saying that he would like to come on and feel like a regular normal. He was invited on last week as a regular guest, but then he kind of brought in the, the comedy central show, I think. But, but, but Ray, can I speak freely? Yes, you can speak. Ray can speak freely. Yeah, go ahead.

Okay. This is what I think. You know, that seems, I have an angel and a devil on my shoulder right now i got to admit i know you can't see them but they're but they're but they're but they're talking at me and it's it's a tough one but i'm gonna i'm gonna go with the angel okay dan to you right right let me ask you this question. You introduced Noam to Michael Hirshhorn, who ended up producing the show. Well, that's not exactly correct, Dan. By the way, I'm amazed that after over two years, never mind more than that. I mean, we started that thing. We started the whole thing.

I didn't look at emails, i think 2015 it was when the initial conversation was and then the thing got on the air in 2018 like i don't even understand what we're talking about it's not just make an introduction there was two different production companies i proposed the show to both of which i'd done other work with and i developed a relationship with and they trusted me and my taste, and they both were interested in it. And we went with... You had other companies that you didn't introduce me to were interested in it.

Right, but you didn't go with them. I don't know why, but that's... I didn't go with them because I went with those guys because you knew them. It wasn't like... Right, so I knew them, and I knew they did. There was only one guy who didn't go down, and that was Robert Kelly's...

Robert Scorpio.io scorpio is that a name uh i don't know what he was thinking but but anyway none of this okay i'm gonna tell you what i think this is i'm gonna lay it out there now ray dan has been to therapy do you go to therapy perio i have been dandy ray do you see therapist oh yeah okay i don't see a therapist but this is what i i wow i i believe. I believe that what I say at some point might have been echoed in some therapy session that you might have had at some point. I think you are a serial resenter of people and your incidents with them. As I've known you – Let me interrupt you right there.

Let me interrupt you right there because that statement – No, I'm not going to let me interrupt you right there. Let me interrupt you right there. No, I'm not going to let you interrupt me right there because I let you speak for a long time. No, because you're just attacking me. It's insanity. Let me finish my presentation. I promise. We were in Aruba one night

when we were doing that shitty comedy seller website. I was in the middle of doing the comedy seller website and I happened to have a list. I was with Ray and Robert Kelly. You want me to stop? And I had a list of all the comedians. I had like the master database of the comedians. And we went through the list of,

we were like going through the list of comedians. One by one, just like talking about them. And like four out of five, Ray had a story with a beef about them. Ray, Ray, Ray's like- this is absolutely we're legitimate but i think that little things stay with you they they they claw at you and you have trouble letting things go and they and they might even grow like moles psychological moles they get bigger and bigger and bigger that's what i think now tell honestly, Ray, look me in the eye. Look me in the eye, Ray, and tell me, is this reminiscent

of any conversation you've ever had? What else do you talk about in therapy? This is what you should be talking about. I don't know how to break this to you, but not only do I not remember what you're talking about in Aruba, because that was probably seven years ago. Seven years ago. But if you heard the way comics talk to each other about each other, sometimes in jest, sometimes in not, I actually think I am more

gracious to my colleagues than any other comedian. I'm the first to text them and congratulate them after they have a great, after they do a late night set or they get a deal. Like, I don't, I actually, I believe the pie is large enough for everybody. So I don't remember the conversation, Norm. And by the way, it could have been completely joking. And so I don't, I don't remember what, what the hell you're even referring to. As far as a resenter, I mean, you're bringing up this TV show from years ago.

It almost seems like you have trouble sharing. You seem to think that, like, you have trouble sharing with other people. Who brought it up? When, last week? Yeah. It was a joke because you're giving me shit about texting and you said you'll you'll never be a guest on this show again right and my response was about to be on the show again and i said this is the first time in two years i've

been on the show you'd think you'd have a guy who made you a few hundred thousand dollars on the show it was a joke noam you know the problem with this show is you know why this show this show should be one of the top five podcasts here's why it's not because a it's not a straight comedy show it's called the comedy seller show but it's not straight comedy and noam you don't need the show financially you're it's wonderful how successful you are the show's not important to your well-being i feel bad for dan you should have two different podcasts. You should handle a political round table show and Dan should have this show

because this show could help Dan's career exponentially. He could be touring in theaters if he did the show as a comedy show, which is what the brand dictates. You would be a great host of something like the McLaughlin Group. That would be phenomenal for you. And I've told you that before.

You'd be the best at that. A couple of things. First of all, which one of these shows would be top five? Dan's show or my political show? Dan's comedy seller show would be top five. I think your show would be top ten in the political world. Dan's not under exclusive contract. He can have his own podcast.

If Dan's capable of doing a top five show, what does he need me for? I think the Comedy Cellar brand carries a lot of weight. And by the way, that's part of the reason why we sold the TV show is because of the Comedy Cellar name. That TV show could have worked in any club.

Wait one second, because the two of you are like an old fucking married couple. This is what happened. He got annoyed because of the money thing. Okay? He didn't think that it was appropriate to bring up in public. And you got upset because of

the other things that he said. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury at home, I will, this is, I submit the following. That when he was upset about me stopping, giving him shit about the text messaging. No, after that I'm talking about. But I'm saying when he was upset about me stopping uh giving him shit about the text messaging no after that i'm talking about but i'm saying when he was upset nicole i'm interested in your opinion when he was upset about it the first thing that came to his mind in terms of his

comeback is an insight into his psychology it is it is it is the first thing that came to his mind was how much fucking money I made because he introduced me to that show. Nom. There are 10 years of experiences he could have gone to. He could have talked about the time he tried to take my nanny by having sex with her. He could have...

What is that? Whoa, whoa, whoa. He could have talked about the time he tried to... You set me up with your nanny. He could have talked about all the creepy things he did. Instead... What creepy. You set me up with your nanny. You could have talked about all the creepy things he did. Instead... What creepy? You set me up with your nanny.

You're spinning the truth. The first thing he talked about was how much money I made. Norm, it was an ad lib. That's not an insight into a real relationship. Wait a second. Now let me state my defense to that. Again, I'm fucking defending myself. Every time I come on here, it's now I'm pulling some horse shit.

Listen to me. It was an ad lib that you laughed at hysterically. It was an ad lib on a show. I am the best host you have at the Comedy Cellar. Arguably, maybe the best, whatever. Every comic wants me to host their show, and I do it out on the road, whatever. And it was an ad lib during a show. I improvise all the time.

And you laughed hysterically. And I think the other two, Perry Allen, I don't know if Dan did, they laughed as well. No, I don't give a shit how much money you made. I'm content with how much I made. But you know what troubles me is from day one of the show, you always try to discredit and that's what you should go to therapy for. What is it about yourself that doesn't want you to have other people to have any credit? I mean, you it's like it's kind of laughable.

It's bizarre, puzzling, puzzling. Well, can I bring up something that that no that noam said um we had talked briefly about before you came on ray is that you introduced noam to this guy from ish and i had mentioned that it was about two years between that introduction and the show getting on the air and that i said that you did a lot to keep the ball in the air. Is that correct? So what did you do to keep things going during that time? There was a lot of conversations I had with the production. And by the way, it's not just an intro.

Introduction sounds like I just said, hi, hi, guys. Why don't you go chat? All the best. That's an introduction. I had a relationship with a company and I thought this was a good fit. And I love the idea of the show. And as time kept going on, people lose interest. No one gets distractions with whatever he has.

He's running another business. Those guys have other projects. And you can look at the, there's, there's, I mean, it's probably 150 emails to keep everything moving forward, motion, forward motion, to keep the conversation alive, to keep the project live. And then I produced the sizzle reel, which was an integral part of selling the show it's like we sit in an office from 2 p.m to 6 a.m we sit in the cellar when we're taping for six seven eight hours it's like endless amount of time it's kind of hilarious that years later i mean the second we got into production all of this was apparent i don't

know why on earth i'm even having this conversation i'm really doing this a favor to perriel because i didn't really want to favor to me i don't know the last minute no no no don't do it as a favor to me this is silly because you know why because we don't even need to be talking about this we can move on but when you have to defend yourself from from your No, you do though because someone's saying basically you don't deserve this or that or you didn't do this or do that. You're suddenly defending yourself. I have five other shows in production and a club in Aruba. I don't

think about this. It's because it came up with I think things got a little bit twisted and heated on the air and you weren't here for the beginning part of the show and Noam said that he loves you and that he, you know, I just think. It's a familial sort of love that encompasses frustration at times, exasperation, much like you might have with a family member,

but the love is there. Noam, do you have anything further to say? I think, I mean, I think everybody said their piece and we can let the listeners decide for themselves if Ray Allen's role in getting the show on the air was substantial or insubstantial. I believe it was substantial. I don't think that's the question.

And by the way, nobody doubts Ray that once the show got on the air, you worked very hard. That's not in dispute. But I don't even think that's part, I don't think any of that's in dispute Well of course it's in dispute That was the whole subject of the dispute The whole subject of the dispute was what was Ray Allen's role

In getting the show on the air Once the show was on the air Ray I can tell you that Noam Acknowledges that you worked very hard And that you earned whatever money they paid you I don't know what it was I don't think that's what this whole thing was about. The whole thing was about. In any case,

no, you know, you're on your phone. I don't know if you're trying to find the emails or things. So, so I don't remember Ray producing the sizzle reel, but I remember Michael producing the sizzle reel. No,

no. Michael actually said, Ray, you produced the sizzle reel. What does produce sizzle mean? I can't give you an explanation. I can't explain to you what it means to produce something, because if you don't know that, then you should take zero credit for this TV show.

That's not an answer. What does it mean? It means if I tell my daughter what you did. OK, you would say to her he he got the right comics to participate, to agree to participate in the shoot and actually participate in the shoot. He worked with Ish on how to shoot the show, on how the look of the show. All the elements that go into it, that's what... And there's different types of producers that write a check.

I remember asking Andrew Schultz to do it. I asked Andrew Schultz. That's one guy. He had 12 guys in the show. He was the main guy we used. I asked Andrew Schultz. That's one guy. I think a lot of radio talk was just because, Noam, you tend to sometimes you'll start a project and then you have so much going on

that you don't pay attention. So there was two years in between the initial introduction and the show getting on the air. It was a year from the time. And it had to keep Comedy Central interested and involved. I think it was about a year from the time we pitched it to a time they came back. We had a bunch of pitch meetings that they came back.

Because they didn't immediately come back with an offer, right? Yeah, they did. They did pretty quickly. Right after the thing. Then it took a long time to get it back. You pitched it to about eight different networks. We kicked it back a season, I think, from the time that they first said they were going to do it.

We got an answer pretty quickly from Comedy Central, but then we were also waiting for like, who was the other network that we thought maybe we'd do? TBS, I think it was. The three finalists were TBS, Comedy Central, and HBO. When we say three finalists, we mean they were our finalists.

We only had one offer. Okay, but this show... The three that expressed some interest, I should say. The show was amazing. Like, everybody seemed to have, like, a very good experience. So what are you guys actually fucking arguing about? Ray is resentful. No, he's not.

No, he's not. I don't like what was said after I left the studio. I mean, that's chumpish. So that's really what it was. You were upset at something that he said to you during the show, and he was upset at what you said after. I'm sorry for that. I was just trying to mess with you.

Well, you were starting to have a psychological analysis with Paul Bloom, it sounded like. I do think, I mean, to be very honest, I do think that you have resentments towards, not me, resentments towards... I only resent you when you say bullshit about me. Yeah, I'm just being very honest. It doesn't make me right. I resent no one else's success. How many times have I talked to you on just regular private calls Where I go It is unbelievable

What X, Y, and Z are doing They are killing it With their podcasts He's always very supportive He goes to the Tonight Show tapings With people I know he's been

Very supportive of Mike Vecchione And Ricky Reyes And so forth Chris DiStefano Jared Freed Schultz I mean all these guys

It's amazing what these guys Are doing It's phenomenal I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that That's not true. I'm going to grant you that. I think that that is true, but there are, there are other, both things can be true at the same time. You, you've told me other stories in the past of, of, of ways that you were involved in, in the domino, dominoes that fell in terms of somebody's career.

And you were resentful that they didn't credit you enough for the fact that you helped them in this way or that way. I truly don't know who you're referring to. I really don't know. I don't know. I honestly don't know what you're talking about or who you're referring to. You're talking about a conversation we had sitting in Aruba. No, no. Certain comedians who, whatever. That conversation we had sitting in Aruba. No, no, other conversations. Certain comedians who, whatever.

That's what I think. But, you know, that. You want to text me the name of the comedian? I can read it and I can see if I can remember the story. So you're telling me you don't even remember and you're making it sound like I'm bad mouthing all of my colleagues and you don't even remember who the fuck we're talking about. No, not bad mouthing.

That's not cool, man. Not bad mouthing. You were just feeling that. I just think that you're going to be confused with Dan. That could be. I think that's what's happening here. You're going to be confused with Daniel Matterman, Daniel Elliott Matterman. I see how he does that. Well, all right. Anyway, I'm, I'm anyway I appreciate your help in the TV show

Ray and you're right I think this also bugged him I think he didn't feel that I was sufficiently interested in the show in some way that I didn't take as sufficient interest in it

in some way because it's true like early on in the show it didn't take as sufficient interest in it in some way, because it's true. Like early on in the show, it didn't, it wasn't, it got separated from what I wanted the show to be. And I was frustrated with, with the product. So I just kind of detached myself from it. Cause I realized that they were going to do what they wanted to do. And I wasn't going to be able to have much of an impact on it. I just want to crack my head open in frustration. So I just kind of separated from the whole thing. I said,

I started sending Liz and I think that, you know, but, but I was still getting the money. Well, I remember that season one was definitely, I think you found that far more frustrating than subsequent seasons. And because, excuse me, because yeah, for that reason, I mean, you know, look, you also, again, like you say, you have other, you have other stuff going on. I mean, it's. I'm not even saying their, their,

their vision of the show was better or worse than mine. My, my vision of the show could have crashed and burned, but I'm just saying like, I wasn't getting any satisfaction out of it. I wasn't getting any artistic satisfaction. Like initially I thought I was going to be involved in the editing. And I thought I was really, I thought by creating a show and owning the club and owning the show and everything, I was going to have some say in it.

And I realized the hard way that actually I had zero say in it. So I was like, all right, I get it. You know, I'm not the one, I'm not the one putting up all the money here. They're putting up the money they get to decide. And I was like grown up about it. I was like, okay, go ahead, do it, do the show. Well, my experience with the show, as long as we're talking about our experiences with the show,

was wholly negative, except for the paycheck, which I very much appreciated. And I was able to get healthcare for a couple of years out of SAG. But I was very, very anxious every time I did the show because I get anxious when I do new material and they're filming me and they never use my jokes. The first season they use my jokes because no one went to bat for me and said, this joke kill. Why aren't you using this joke? And so they said, OK, fine, we'll put it in. And then when no one stopped going to bat for me, I didn't get any. Because Ray was stabbing you in the back. Yeah, right. I actually

didn't get any jokes on in the second season. They had their favorites and they had their criteria for selecting jokes, not all of which had to do with the jokes that killed the hardest. But in any case, Comedy Central doesn't show me any love. Well, there was a joke Dan, that you did. I don't remember

what, it was arguably one of the best jokes in the entire series of all three seasons. It had to do with, it was like a job, a joke about masturbation, whatever. And I remember I was sitting in the edit room

it was about one in the morning. That one did get on, I think. That did get on, yes. So they wanted to cut the joke. And I said, this is an unbelievable joke. And the guy goes, I don't know.

I go, hold on a second. And I yelled to a guy down the hall who was working on a different show in the editing bay. And I had him come in and he comes in the guy goes, I don't know. I go, hold on a second. And I yelled to a guy down the hall who was working on a different show in the edit, in the editing bay. And I had him come in and he comes in. He goes, Oh my God, that's hysterical. And the guy goes, all right, we'll keep the guy who has debating with, he goes, all right,

I'll keep the first half of the joke. I go, what? And then the guy who I pulled in goes, the second half of the joke is even funnier than the first. So I had to call in strangers. When I say, when I talk about masturbating in front of women, and I said the only time I masturbate in front of women is when they start blowing me, and I'm like, give me that. You don't know what you're doing.

Yeah, that's right. Give me that. It's an amazing joke. So, you know, you start to lose your mind. You're sitting there at 1, 2 in the morning, and you're having arguments with people over stuff that you know, in this case I know, is unbelievably funny, and you have to bring with people over stuff that, you know, in this case, I know is unbelievably funny. And you have to bring in people from down the hall who don't even work on the show to validate your argument.

Your head's going to explode. It was a lot. It was. Look, it was a great experience. And I think if COVID didn't happen, we probably had a fourth season. Everything happens for a reason. You know, I'm working on other other stuff now and, and the club is successful and blah, blah, blah. And, but you know, it was, it's a lot of fucking work and long hours and a great experience and nice money. And so, you know, it was all a good, it was all a great experience. Another matter, Ray, have the cops made any progress finding out who came into your house and spray painted the walls or we have several suspects and,

and hopefully they will apprehend somebody soon um do that artwork yeah me and yes this buddy during the pandemic we're losing our minds and so there we have a friend named james goldcrown james goldcrown is a very successful people because not everybody watches on youtube so ray's sitting in if you looked at the apartment he's got like spray painted hearts and red blue and green it literally looks like a subway station art um go ahead well if you google love wall james gold crown you will see the original love wall it's hard hundreds and hundreds of hearts spray painted on a wall in in downtown new City. And this guy, James Goldcrown, but I've known him maybe 10, 12 years. He has turned this into a unbelievably,

like a Keith Haring-esque franchise. And he does these hearts all over the world for companies. He has a deal now with Skechers and with Sephora. And it's amazing. That's a guy I am so happy for because he was selling his art out of an ice cream truck at one point. And what did you do to facilitate his success?

Just nothing. I bought one piece of art. So he goes, so we're talking once and I said, I go, man, those hearts are amazing. And my other friend goes, yeah, we can do them on your wall if you want. Not James, but our other buddy. So during the pandemic, I got some spray paint. My daughter could have done that on your wall, Ray. What's that? My daughter got that on your wall. So we started spray painting it and then I didn't realize how toxic the smell is.

So, and I sleep in this room. So it was a foolish move on my part, but James got a big kick out of it because he thought I was an imbecile for even attempting to do it. And, and I suggest everybody look up James Goldcrown and buy some of his work. Okay, listen, his work may be good, but let's just be honest. There is nothing about that. I mean, literally, if my wife came home and found that on my wall,

she would have assumed the kids did it and they'd be punished. Like if I said, no, no, honey, I just paid 10 grand for that. What are you doing? You know what? It was a very, very long pandemic. I was running out of things to do.

And if your nanny that you set me up with, and I dated for six months, if she saw this wall, she probably would have loved it. I want to hear that story. I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's bad, actually. To be clear, it's cute. It's nice.

I'm just saying that there's, you know, you can see it. There's just nothing about it, which like Ava, my stepmother Ava, she does beautiful drawings and paintings. I mean, they're highly skilled. She's a brilliant artist. Yeah, this is. This is not. Just, you know.

It's graffiti. I'm not saying anybody could have done it. No, I mean. Like really anybody could have done it. No. I mean. Like really anybody could have done it. No. But I never made the claim that it was good. It's just on my wall. It's cute.

Anybody could have done that? I mean, it's like saying anybody could do like Jackson Pollock. Like, I mean, this guy's made a career out of making these cars. Well, but that's not the guy. That's not the guy. That's me doing a knockoff of it. It's a knockoff of it. Yeah.

The guy's actual work.off yeah the guy's actual work yeah the guy's actual work is amazing okay i mean there's two elements to art there's the the skill in creating the art and then there's the vision so sometimes an art can look simplistic and maybe it is in terms of anybody could recreate it, but could somebody think of it? Agreed. So I'm looking at Jackson Pollock here. No, no, no. This is, this is not like Jackson Pollock.

No. Look at James Goldcrank. James Goldcrank. A lot of people. Like Mark Rothko looks like somebody, something anybody could do. I mean, Mark Rothko, actually, I don't really get. I don't, I don't get why that's good.

Rothko's amazing. I want to hear about the nanny. No, that's a whole other topic. No, no. Apparently you were not authorized to dictate topics. I want to hear about the nanny. No, that's a whole other topic. You are not authorized to dictate topics. I'm sorry. We've been through this. I didn't dictate it. He brought it up. Dan, I don't mind. It's fine with me. We brought our nanny to

Aruba. Ray had a relationship with Noam's nanny. And Dan said, I mean, sorry, Noam said to me, you know, I think you and my nanny would get along really well. They came to Aruba. We got together. We dated for like six months. In fact, at one point, Noam was saying to me there's a house for sale right over there. Like, you know, and I, within eyesight of, of, of Noam's house.

And I think Noam had in his head that I was going to like move in with a nanny in this other house. And she could like be with the kids till they were like, you know, 10 years old or whatever. And, and like me and this n this nanny we're gonna live happily ever after and be noam's neighbors and so on and so forth am i incorrect with that no slightly anyway we we broke up and she kind of disappeared she just vanished like she disappeared from everyone's lives yeah all right i think i think we're out of time here. Well, if you want to briefly discuss that woman that urinated on a fan on stage, we could do so.

If not, we can end. Did you guys talk about the woman that walked on stage during that guy's set? There's a woman who walked on stage. She looked a little intoxicated. A white woman who walked on stage during, I believe his name was Affie and Crockett set. You guys didn't see that. You're maybe you're going to talk about them next, next episode. And it's fascinating. A lot of people can't believe she did it. What a Karen bottle comedian that that was a woman walked on stage during a

comedian set in the middle of, I don't know, Ohio or somewhere like that. And to me, she's just some drunk dumb, dumb. I've seen people walk on stage and break a chair over a comedian said, somewhere like that. And to me, she's just some drunk dum-dum. I've seen people walk on stage and break a chair over a comedian's head. I've seen people throw a drink in people's, comedian's faces. What'd she do? What's the point of the story?

Well, it was like, it's all, it's all on Twitter. Everyone's talking about it. Look at this entitled, privileged person. And, you know, look, she's a Karen and so on and so forth. I just thought she was a drunk person. Well, we'll have to investigate that. Yeah, take a look. An electric fan?

Somebody peed. This woman, Nicole, you must be, you're abreast of the new music. That's what I thought he meant. No, I meant. How does a woman pee on a fan? A woman peed on a person that was at the show. This was. How does a woman pee on a fan? A woman peed on a person that was at the show. How does a woman pee?

They can't be sitting down. She pulled her pants all the way down to her knees. This is Sophia, oddly named Eurista. That's a really odd name. And somebody lied down under her? She said, you can watch the video. She said, I got to pee and I can't make it to the bathroom. We might as well.

What did it say? I got to pee and I can't make it to the bathroom, so we might as well make a show out of it. A fan volunteered to get on stage, lie down on the stage, and this woman, Sophia Urista, who is on The Voice, by the way, like our dear friend Amanda Brown. And Sasha Allen. And Sasha Allen.

And Amanda's sister is on now. Go ahead. Who's sister? Amanda. Samara. She dropped Trowell all the way to her knees and it was a veritable water. I mean, this was like Niagara Falls.

It was a lot of pee. It was a monstrous amount of pee. What club was this? It's not like an elegant stream like a man. You know how it is. So it was... Where was this, Dan? You know how it is. So it was. Where was this, Dan? You can see it on video.

It was unbelievable. And then she tweeted that she went too far. You know, about four hours ago, my mother brought this up. We were talking. She goes, did you hear about this? She took down her pants and urinated. This is an outrage. Four hours ago, my mother mentioned this to me.

Well, if Brown's mother's heard about it, obviously it's big news. It's going beyond just the circle of fans. Brass Against is the name of the band. Nicole, do you know anything about this band, Brass Against? No, I saw a picture of this, but I don't know anything about it.

Did you see the video? No. I got to tell you, I'm not qualified to do this podcast anymore because I've been so into music lately. I don't watch the news. I barely do anything. This is a music story.

Political podcast. Do a political podcast. I'm not that interested in politics anymore. This is a music story. We had a woman in the altar tonight. She says, oh, my God, I listen to your podcast all the time. And I came down to see her. I'm not sure she said she came down to see her.

She was at the cellar and she came up. Anyway, she's like, I hear you talking about your band. And she was like, Oh my God, you guys are so great. And that meant more to me than anything else. Hand and then hand the reins of this show. Am I forward or against it? I don't know. I mean, it's an, it's an outrageous story, but if the fan was happy and I'm sure that, I'm sure they probably violated the public health codes.

And it's indecent exposure. I think she might be brought up on charges for indecent exposure. Really? I think so. Does that even exist anymore, indecent exposure? I think so, yeah. Anyway, I think that... It is somewhat reminiscent of my scheme

that I came up with years ago, half jokingly, half maybe half seriously, about taking a dump on Letterman stage in order to get attention. Do you recall that? No. Yes. I recall that very well. I just think going to the bathroom is something you should just do yourself. I didn't want to watch my wife pee. It's like, it's just. People love urine. Keep it to yourself.

Oh my God. People enjoy urine. Gandhi drank urine, right? I don't know if he drank it. I don't know what he did, but it's a huge fetish. People are into golden showers. Golden showers, yeah.

I don't get that. Has anybody on this podcast ever done that? He can't hear. I mean, he's trying to talk. Has anyone on this podcast ever participated in such a thing? No, but I will cop to asking young ladies for tinkle videos. Oh, my God.

You have? Yeah, like a woman that I was involved with. She's sending me naughty things. I was like, you know, here's something you might want to send me if it's not too much of an effort. Now, what do you want? You want to see the pee coming out? Or you just want the sound effect of her sitting on the toilet? What do you want? Do you want to see the pee coming out or just want the sound effect

of her sitting on the toilet? What do you want? I think both. I think both, yeah. I think both. You know, this is a topic for Dan's therapist. No, because this is perfectly within the realm of normal sexuality.

It's a very common fetish. And I don't know that I'd want to be peed on, but better to be peed on than to be peed off. Or is it the other way around? Does any woman have a fetish about watching a man pee? I had a girl once reference holding it while I peed, but we never did it.

People do like to be urinated on. That is a thing. Or just to watch it. I mean, if you plug it into Google, you'll find it's... You know, on a hot summer's day and you gotta cool off, you gotta do what you gotta do. Well, it's... You know, on a hot summer's day and you got to cool off, you got to do what you got to do.

Well, it's not that cool, but... But Noam doesn't get it. You know, Noam... Can you put piss in like a humidifier? You know, you fill a humidifier with water and it aerosolizes it. Well, if it's not coming out of a vagina, what's the point?

I think I smell a new viral video. It doesn't come out of a vagina exactly. Whatever it comes out of. I mean, yeah, it's not the same hole. You're correct. It's not the same hole. It's not the same. I didn't pick that topic. I resent that.

He brought it up. You said you're not allowed to pick topics. I didn't bring up that nanny topic. In other words, you tried to steer it. He brought it up, but then you tried to make it the main focus of the Now, poop is a fetish, too. I understand.

And you think that's normal also? That's disgusting. People are out of their minds. No, no, no. I actually wrote about this extensively in my first book. I had a very good friend. The one you want to let my children read. Go ahead. The one that I will not let your children read? Go ahead. He was a very good friend. The one you want my children to read. Go ahead. The one that I will not let your children read? He's a very

accomplished musician, this guy. And he used to, he's gay, and he used to get hired by wealthy older men. And one of them asked him to defecate in his mouth. And he used to pay him hundreds

of dollars. Now here's the... Hundreds? Hundreds? Hundreds of dollars to come over and shit in somebody's mouth? Would you do that for hundreds of dollars? No, I wouldn't. That sounds like thousands of dollars. Thousands of ten grand. Yeah, this was like 20 years ago, but here's the twist. Oh, inflation. Here's the twist. The guy

was a vegetarian, and so he always told my friend not to eat meat first. I swear to God, that's a true story. You know, McAfee, there's a documentary about, is his name John McAfee, I think? I believe he was off living, I think in Belize. And there's like three women in the documentary

who are always like, he liked to lay in a hammock and they would lay, I'm sorry, he would lay underneath the hammock, they would get in the hammock and he would have the women poop on him yeah disgusting no would you do that would you ever let somebody poop on you why are you asking a ridiculous question you know he i don't know maybe in your youth in your wild days what's the price what's going through my head now is is much as much like is like in my wild days so What's the price? What's going through my head now is much, is much like, is like in my wild days. That's like a wild thing

is just the, the science of it all. Like. Corpophilia, I think it's called. Yeah. It exists in nature. Yeah.

You're born with it, right? Probably. You can't help it, but we don't respect it. We pick and choose what it is that somebody has a compulsion to do.

Certain people have other compulsions like, how dare you judge somebody? What is the matter with you? Are you sick? It's the last readout. It's the last kind of thing that we'll all agree on is like this person needs help like no no everything else got to come out of the is it dsm

is it called every other thing has got to come out of the dsm but wanted to get pooped on the dsm and then there's gonna be a pamphlet with one thing in there no i think most people i think most people are in accord that anything between two consenting adults is okay that's i i believe most people's position they might find it odd or weird i want to get therapy i want to get pooped you don't need therapy for that you should be proud of that you know you should pooping is gross come on it's like well we shouldn't we shouldn't be it's like proud of it but but i don't think people would say that it's so he's so brave he he came out publicly and told people he wants to get pooped on he's so brave just saying i guess what i told people he wants to get pooped on he's so

brave just saying i guess what i'm really saying is now they made me think about it is who are you to segregate out being pooped on what is that we're at the point now where any where we're supposed to anything that people feel the urge to do we presume is like that's the way it is and we should respect it and we shouldn't call it gross. I'm not separating it. I did call it gross. I will. You're right about that. But I don't morally condemn anybody that's into it. I don't either.

I'm on the fence. I say live free and poop. Hold on. Where it does get dicey is pedophiles. Well, but you're not dealing with consenting adults. That's not.

What's dicey about that? The urge is the urge. You have to fight it with everything you have and not give in to it. But I cannot condemn the urge. Yeah, I mean, people who feel that urge feel that urge. They can't help it But they can't help acting on it Maybe they can't

But I guess what I'm saying is that Of course we have to They should be put onto a fucking Desert island and be castrated We have to protect ourselves from them No doubt just like we'd have to protect Ourselves from anybody getting hurt At a certain point it's like

who gives a shit what the reason is what we judge them with a moral i don't know haughtiness i guess is haughtiness that that is that that is probably not fair in some way in a sense that we we judge them in a sense that, like, you know, how dare they feel this way? You're sick if you feel this way. You are sick if you feel that way. I don't know that that's haughty. I mean, wanting to have sex with prepubescent children is a fucking mental disease.

And you need to be segregated out of society. You've made my point better than anybody else could. My point is that how do you just, how do you, we've come to defining mental disease in terms of the things that we don't approve of. No, no. But I don't think that, I don't think that the definition of disease, which means an abnormality in some way really lines up with that.

Like if you, if you want, If you want to cut off your penis, there's, you know, like, that is a serious, that's an urge. No, no, no, no, stop. I'm just saying like the urge for mutilation. No, first of all, the language that you're using is A, inflammatory, and B, it's not accurate. And also doing something to your-

You said mental disease. I'm talking about doing something to an innocent child is different than a doing something to yourself or consenting adults. So you think it's a disease to want to do something to a child? Yes. Take advantage of a prepubescent child is you need to be segregated out of society. Of course you do. But then define disease to me. I mean, I guess in the same way that like serial killers have a mental disease, you can't control yourself and you're going to harm somebody innocent. What about harm yourself? I would say that, like, what?

Like cutting yourself? Like people who harm... Cutting yourself? Cutting off your genitals? See, when you say cutting off your genitals, though, that's quite inflammatory because it's a loaded language. Right. I had this conversation with somebody today about exactly this point. And I think that the best definition of wokeness is that it's a way to take conversations off the table.

In other words, this is nine out of ten people I'm having this conversation and really I'm grappling with. I'm trying to understand it. I'm really trying to put these concepts in an actual rigorous framework. But when you say it's inflammatory language, I mean, first of all, you make me look bad. I don't know. I have no answer to that. How can I? I'm not trying to be bad.

So what it's a way of is cordoning off a conversation. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Well, then how can I talk about what it is I want to talk about without you, without, can I get a better answer to this? Well, because it's like-

Can you answer the substance of what I'm saying? Tell me, listen, I will phrase it in whatever language you can give me that's not inflammatory. Okay, let me try to-

If you agree that we can actually talk about it. Yeah, of course we can talk about it. So how do I say it? But wait a second. Let me just explain what I'm saying because I don't,

I'm not trying to attack you. So- I don't think you are, because I don't I'm not trying to attack you. So I don't think you are. I'm saying it's I'm not saying wokeness is a way. Wokeness is a way of putting a police rope around a conversation, make it almost impossible to get into. That's not what I'm doing. I'm saying it's like if you want to have a conversation with about abortion, don't start the conversation by saying it's killing a baby. What is inflammatory about saying? I asked you, how about hurting yourself? You said, well, like, you mean like, I said, like, like, like cutting off your genitals.

That's not hurting yourself? Well, no, because, I mean, because we have other language now. It's something you can't even, couldn't even have done more recently than. In terms of, in terms of. You would have bled out to death. Look, we didn't even have the technology

for hundreds of thousands of years. This wasn't even an option for humans to do it. That's not true. Let me just jump in here briefly and summarize this, if I may. And I think we should wrap it up and put a bow on it. Put a bandage on it. But Noam's absolutely right. There's little difference in terms of one compulsion versus another.

Both are things that you cannot help but feel. But the way a disease is generally defined is something that interferes with your quality of life. Something needs to be treated. Well, often it's defined as something that interferes with the quality of life. Something needs to be treated. Well, um, look, shall I look up disease? Often it's defined as something that interferes with the quality of life. Now, if having a compulsion to have sex with kids will interfere with your quality of life because you cannot act on it. And if you do act on it,

you're harming. So that's defined as a disease. How many definition, uh, disease is a particular abnormal, abnormal condition that negatively affects the structure or function of all or part of an organism. That's roughly what I said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Roughly.

I wasn't contradicting. I just, just give me. So they basically define it as if it interferes with your life and that's how, that's how you can define it any way you like in any way you slice it, but that's how generally it's defined. So if you're transgender and it can be, it's not a disease if it can be properly treated and doesn't interfere with your quality of life, I guess. I don't think it's a disease.

I don't, what I'm saying is none of this stuff is, I mean, I think the disease is not, the word disease is not helpful here. All I'm really saying is none of this stuff is is I mean the word I think the disease is not help the word disease is not helpful here all I'm really saying is that we're not learning the lesson that we should have taken from the acceptance of transgender which is that we need to understand that people don't have a choice in how they feel. And judging them for what they feel is probably not a fair thing to do. Including

even people who feel urges towards children. It's like judging them is like, what are you going to do? Like, they can't help it. Keep them away from your fucking kids. No, God forbid something like that ever happened with one of your kids i mean what would you think you'd still be saying the same thing i i don't know if i would i but i that's not a that's not a um i mean it's like they asked my michael the caucus if his if his

wife if his wife was raped and killed would he still be against the death penalty you know it's like maybe he wouldn't be but that doesn't mean that would he still be against the death penalty? And I was like, maybe he wouldn't be, but that doesn't mean, that's not an argument against the death penalty. You know what, your analogy? If somebody molested my child, I would want them dead. God forbid. I would want them dead.

Right. Now your Michael Dukakis analogy brings me back to the point, you should be hosting a McLaughlin group type of show. Anyway. I just want to point out that Noam was making a distinction between the feeling and acting on the feeling. Acting on the feeling is a crime that must be punished

in the strictest possible way. But the feeling itself, he's arguing, should not be morally condemned. It's something somebody somebody cannot help. Listen, if my urge towards females. Or Ray Allen's urge towards females is uncontrollable. So if I was born, if I was born in a society where I would have been punished for satisfying that urge, I probably would would have taken the chance of getting caught and done it, right? Well, they have medical castration for pedophiles. I mean, that's what they do to, I mean, I think the state would do that. Yeah, nobody's going to volunteer

for that. Well, actually, you'd be surprised. I do think that there have been a couple of cases where people have volunteered. Maybe so, maybe so. They can no longer get an erection and so they can't sexually abuse kids. You can sexually

abuse without getting an erection, but you probably don't have the urge. You don't have the urge. You sound like you're saying that with some insight. You can do everything without an erection, believe me. Anyway, why don't we end things up there, if we can.

Ray, do you have anything to say? Would you like to plug your comedy cloud company? Yes. If anybody needs. What started off the whole thing last time? We actually, we have three new bookings for that just happened today. If you want to do a private event on Zoom, a private comedy event on Zoom for your company, for Friendsgiving, a whatever holiday event, ComedyCloud.co. We've done over 140 of these the past year and a half.

It's an outstanding way to connect people, ComedyCloud.co. And if you're going to be in Aruba, December, January, February, March, Arubacomedy.com. Come to a show. Dan Adam will be there December 19th to January 8th. Prairie L, you might be coming down to Aruba. I might be. You know what it is? If you watch the Michael Jackson documentary,

or if you watch or if you just read about the priests who covered for the other priests who were molesting children i come away in those examples with much more anger towards the people who uh facilitated it and what's the word when you when you uh perpetuate i think the word is end the show no anyway so like like like the priests who couldn't resist children, yeah, they have their, that's their...

Compulsion. That's their compulsion, right? But the priests who covered for them, what's their excuse? Like the people, Michael Jackson had his craziness, right? Or whatever. But the people, the whole organization around him, the people who covered for him, that's the moral. Maybe they had a compulsion to cover for them.

Greed. That's about greed, I think. Same thing with Weinstein. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, there's no free will and moral responsibility. Enablers, that's the word I'm looking for. Moral responsibility. Look at Jerry Sandusky. What's that?

Jerry Sandusky from Penn State. I was trying to end things here, Aruba Redding. No, just because you were doesn't mean we have to. Well, you said like 20 minutes ago, okay, I guess we're done. Well, I don't know because we- And then we linger.

We had so much downtime. I don't know how long the show wound up being. Believe me, we got plenty. We got plenty. All right, so- We got more than plenty. And to be very clear,

just on the thing, because Dan wasn't right, I was not alluding to it. I was not alluding negatively to homosexuality or transgender, anything like that. I was really just trying to say that-

Well, you were making the analogy that that that we we we we pray that we uh say you're brave if you have one one kind of desire and you're disgusting if you have another kind of desire but but i i don't i yeah but i wasn't trying to say the previous desire was disgusting i was just trying to say there was an inconsistency i was trying to point a line you're trying to say whether you're gay or you like to be shit on either way be proud i was trying to make a line. You were trying to say whether you're gay or you like to be shit on. Either way, be proud. I was trying to make the point, like, Perry, you're like, you're so like when somebody's transgender, they're so brave. And they're like, you have someone else who has another. It's like, you're disgusting.

Like, well, how do you pick which one is brave and which one is disgusting? Like you. I mean, pretty easily. I would think it's brave for anybody to go public with something about themselves that they know will be a look well a scan set right that's brave that fan that got not only not not only did he say it with words but he said it with action he said i like urine on my face and body and not only am i going to say it loud and clear but i'm going to do it on stage in front of thousands of people i don't know who that guy's name is

but he he is a very brave man. He's so brave. My book, Ira Spiro Before COVID, is available at Amazon. I don't know why you haven't done the audio book yet, Dan. It's a dumb thing. Perhaps so. Perhaps so. But in any case. Nicole can record it for you.

Okay, we got to go. Bye, everyone. You said you wanted to end. Yes, but we have to end with proper, with a proper way. Okay. Go ahead. We can't just say, okay, we're going. I mean this, we have to have some professionalism after all. And that, that, that, I don't count that as professionalism. Pyrrha Lashon Brands books on my knees and The Only Wish I Trust is my own also available on Amazon comedycloud.co

uh once again for all oh com no no com we had co Columbia

for all your um for all your remote comedy needs um and podcast at comedyseller.com

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