The Comedy Cellar: Live from the Table - Bill Clinton's Joke Writer, Mark Katz

Episode Date: July 15, 2016

Bill Clinton's Joke Writer, Mark Katz

You're listening to The Comedy Cellar, live from the table, on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to The Comedy Cellar show here on Sirius XM Channel 99. My name is Noam Dwarman. I'm the owner of The Comedy Cellar. I'm here with Daniel Natterman. Yeah, I don't own The Comedy Cellar. I just work here. And our very, very sexy, thank you, very, very sexy and funny Miss Kristen Montella. And people ask me all the time, what is Kristen doing on that show? Because she's not a comedian and she doesn't work at the Comedy Cellar. And I don't know, you want to take that, Dan?

Well, I think you might want to ask Chris that. I don't know where I want this. I think you wanted a female voice. And the price is right. You wanted a female voice. It was a few years ago when you show. I think you wanted a female voice. And the price is right. You wanted a female voice. It was a few years ago when you started doing this, and you wanted a female voice. To be fair, I used to work at the Comedy Cellar.

I have a good relationship with a lot of the comedians. I remain friends with a lot of the comedians. And Noam was always looking for ways to suck me back into here. And not only that, but you have a sarcastic, biting sense of humor that Noam thought would go well with this show, and I think that he's been proven correct. I'd have to agree.

That's not it. I'm sorry. That's not it. You guys are all wrong. It was that you weren't on the show at the time, and Robert Kelly, who was our boss at the time... If you're going to say this is because Robert wanted to have sex with me and that's why I'm still on the show, we're going to have an issue. Moving right along.

We're looking for a co-host and he thought you'd be a great co-host. And then Dan was one of our early guests and Dan was just so fantastic. He's been staying ever since. Kind of like the way Artie Lang got hired on the Stern Show, I believe. Dan, you're like our little Artie Lang. We never lost him.

Not only did I do a good job, but I showed a certain enthusiasm for doing this show. I don't know that... That's true. At the beginning, nobody wanted to do this show. That's not true. It's like in Little Big Man, the grandfather, did she show pleasant enthusiasm when you mounted her?

Dan showed pleasant enthusiasm. So, but which brings me to something I find interesting. Dan and Artie Lang have a very, very warm friendship and Dan spent 4th of July with the legendary Artie Lang and an

odder couple. I mean, you guys literally could be cast as the odd couple. What does Artie Lang do on Fourth of July, Dan? Well, I don't know. We have a warm relationship. How many people were there? Well, because he was doing a podcast. I wasn't invited over for July 4th to celebrate.

I was invited over there to do his podcast. And then after the podcast, which took a long time because Artie kept taking breaks and he disappeared. We didn't know where he was. He fell asleep once. Then we had some dinner. So it took all night. But yes, I would say that we seem to have a nice relationship.

I don't know. We don't talk to each other on the phone or anything like that people do when they're friends. But he confides in Dan. I don't want to share that. He confides in everybody. He's an open book. He stabbed himself 15 times and he tells everybody.

But that doesn't mean you can repeat the stories that he told you, does it? Not until he's said it publicly, no. That's what I'm saying, yes. But the stabbing was a public thing. I'm saying he's an open book. He confides in anybody.

He'll tell anybody anything. Right. Yes. So, I don't know. So it was fun so should we bring our well I just wanted to say happy, on that note, happy 4th of July belatedly to our listeners, all who love

America which I guess would discount a lot of Bernie Sanders and of course Noam and Montella. By the way, in other Natter news. I like that. Thank you. I got a small role, once again, because I'm the king of small roles, you know.

In Crashing, in another episode of Crashing. That's the Judd Apatow. Pete Lee. They told me I had the role, but they haven't given me a shooting date yet. The one date they gave me to hold was actually, you're never going to believe this, I'm going to be in Aruba. Oh, no.

Every time I get an offer to do TV, I'm in Aruba. This is the third time it's happened. That's the Ray Allen jinx. Yeah, Dan turned down Louis C.K.'s role because he was in Aruba. Go ahead. Well, I turned down Louis C.K.'s role because he was in Aruba. Go ahead. Well, I turned down Louis C.K. I turned down Amy Schumer. Now, if, in fact, the date stays where it is, I will arrange with Ray Allen to stay in New York

or to come back early and do this. I will not turn down Judd Apatow because, number one, this role is a little bit bigger than those other roles, although not much. It's not a huge role. I think it's like two or three lines. And I see Judd all the time. Right.

And I don't want to turn down something. And I actually have a warm relationship with Judd, comparatively speaking. I don't have much of a relationship

with Louis or with Amy. But Amy's very fond of you. She told me so. Well, that's nice to hear. I don't know. But well, then that's food for thought the next time she offers me something, if that comes up.

I hope she does. I hope she does. That's it for this week in Natter News. If you want to invite one of our guests, though. I prefer to roll it in gradually. All right. Let's... And give Lenny five to ten minutes alone,

and then we'll bring in the other guests. Dan likes a little foreplay. Lenny is chomping at the bit to attack us. I'm not chomping at the bit. Because there's a lot going on in Lenny Marcus land. I hope that Lou just keeps our show tight for us because we do meander around a little bit. Why?

I haven't heard any meandering thus far. He's as tight as a drum. I listened to the one that you addressed my podcast with Kevin and it was really good. I didn't like what you said but it was really good so this is lenny marcus he is the co-host of the misery loves company podcast on the esteemed riot cast network yes this show is getting all it has about as big a buzz i say as any podcast united states of amer America has right now. But from day one, Lenny and Kevin have been not getting along well.

And every day it seems like they might come apart. Lenny's the level-headed guy. Kevin does not appreciate Lenny. Kevin does not respect Lenny. And Kevin actually tries to make an end around Lenny to get the money out of the podcast. It's amazing, right? Yeah. Well, let's just put it this way. It's not just me. He hates everybody. I was going to get the money out of the podcast. It's amazing, right?

Let's just put it this way. It's not just me. He hates everybody. Insert blank. You're absolutely right. It didn't matter. You were there. I heard that one too. I was out for three weeks working the road. You weren't working the road. You were working the sea. Working the sea, the sea, the road.

You sat in last week, right? Now you've experienced the bullet train that is Kevin coming right at you as you're tied to the road. Yeah. And you sat in last week, right? Yes. So now you've had, you experienced the bullet train that is Kevin coming right at you as you're tied to the stakes. It's not a fair comparison because he won't come at me the way he will come at almost everyone else in the world. Right.

Because he wants to work here and I'm not a comedian. So I enjoy... Oh, no, not because you're not a comedian. Yeah. Not because you're not. Take that part back. Okay. It's because... Oh, no, not because you're not a comedian. Yeah. Not because you're not. Take that part back. Okay, I take it back.

You own the place. That's it. So I enjoy a little bit of a force field and I'm aware of that. But you were excellent with him. I thought you did as good a job as you could, but it was hilarious. The show was great for 20 minutes

and then Liz's cell phone went off or something like that. And he was so mad, so mad. He really just took the whole plane and just drove it into the mountain for the rest of the podcast. It was unbelievable. That's exactly what happened. He started staring at space. And he's like, that's it. We're not going to play this show anyway.

We're not going to play this show anyway. It was great for 20 minutes, right? Or half an hour. It was unbelievable. It was perfect. They were talking politics. you know, everything. And then all of a sudden, phone went off, and the world was against Kevin. Is that usually what happens?

He hates when Liz is, he's so narcissistic. If anybody isn't listening, like sometimes I'm just looking at him like I'm looking at you now. And if for some reason I blink or look down at a piece of paper, I'm not listening. And if Liz looks at her cell phone, it's over. So he's insane. Look, my feeling on that podcast is that it's probably going to be hard to sustain it as a podcast if it's only about Kevin Rant. The podcast. I totally agree.

And he's going to run out of targets. We talk about this all the time. It's not him ranting because he can pick endless topics to rant about. He'll rant about your coffee as fast as he can rant about gun control. Right. But when it starts to be the podcast about the podcast, that's when it goes off the rails. And people don't understand.

Nobody wants to listen to you whining about this podcast or what horror things that I've done to you or Liz's, which is nothing, which is nothing. And they all know it, too. Our fans know it. But they egg him on with like, no, no, get rid of both of them. which is nothing which is nothing and they all know it too our fans know it but you know they egg him on with like

no no get rid of both of them you know like and it just makes him crazy and it makes him happy to be fair to Kevin I also think and I encourage everybody

to listen to this podcast especially the what are the classic ones the one that David Tell is on and then the one that I'm on happy miserable birthday

when you're on for about half an hour it was pretty good that it's got to be a lot of pressure on him to do this podcast because he Happy miserable birthday. When you're on for about half an hour, it was pretty good. It's got to be a lot of pressure on him to do this podcast. Because if he comes in there one day and doesn't have much to say, what are you guys going to do? We have plenty.

We just don't get to say it. That's the thing. I would love him to not be there for a day, so we could just show you what it could be. Because it would be a discussion like you three have. It would be an actual discussion. We could still be miserable with other people. If he brings up any topic and we go, Kevin, what do you think

of this? Well, I think, and I give one line, the next half hour is just him filibustering. Is it funny? Yeah. Is he amazing at it? Sometimes. Yeah. But can we get in a counterpoint? Sometimes. Maybe I'll give him one. Yeah. But can we get in a counterpoint? Sometimes. Maybe I'll give him one, I'll give him a sentence of a counterpoint and then he'll go off for another half hour.

And then he'll say, you guys never say a fucking thing. So I'm like, well, who's winning this game? It's really hard to, you know how this works. You don't want anybody to talk over each other because that's when it gets really bad to listen back to. So you try and just... We're not on BET after all. Right. And so when people are talking over each other, it gets really bad to listen back to. We're not on BET after all. Right.

Right. And so when people are talking over each other, it gets really bad. I probably shouldn't have said that. Yeah, well, whatever. Hey, at this point, the bigoted comments go right through. I didn't mean to bigot it. I'm just thinking of the time we've had Sherrod and whatever. I'm getting myself deeper and deeper.

You're just making it worse. Well, you three, the one I listened to had Colin Quinn, SD, and then eventually both Rays. It was long, but it was good. Thank you, by the way, because I listen to these things while I'm running on a treadmill.

And when they're good, it's great because you can run and it's great. And then, of course, it's about me, so I'm laughing and then all of a sudden, I'm going to kill the three of you because, first of all, none of you back me. None of you. Back you on what? You, Kristen, go, what do those

two guys have going on that they have to fight over? That was first. We have nothing in the world happening. To fight over, she said. Or whatever. No, no. You made it sound like we're irrelevant in the comedy world as it is. So why bicker? Oh, yeah.

I probably did say that. I don't think that's what they were saying. That's exactly what she said. I probably said that. That's exactly what she said. So I was like, I am going to get off.

One day I'm going to fly back. But that's the, I mean, that's the nature of this show too. I defend you on the business. No, but no one does

defend you on the business. Let's go to the next person. Okay. Dan Aderman, who I know for over 20 years, you know, I defend you on the business. No, but don't defend you on the business. Let's go to the next person, okay? Dan Aderman, who I know for over 20 years, you know, and love more than anyone in this business and say nothing but great things. Totally back Kevin. You know, totally back Kevin.

There is no show without Kevin, but there is a show without Lenny Martin. Awful, awful. You can say whatever you want. Maybe it won't be as funny, but there'll still be a show Dan and maybe you could be a guest on it and actually get in a word

in edgewise because I know you got a lot to say there would be a show but it would not be the same show no show would be the same show that's the point Lenny when you go to Natterman you gotta expect someone

who's gonna call him like he sees him I know if you don't want that you don't have to because the show is it's Kevin it's Kevin's point of view and you are there to assist and to help him.

But it's Kevin's visceral contempt for everything. It's Kevin's vision. Now, if you want to do your own podcast, which I'm sure- Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back that up. That's not Kevin's vision. Kevin doesn't have a vision. Kevin has no business sense.

Kevin is the dumbest person you've ever met. You think he's very right. He's not bright. No one was there to see it firsthand, how he could take a perfectly good plane and drive it into the fucking mountain. It's not his vision. Robert Kelly came up with this idea.

It is a totally different thing, but it's not his vision. He has no vision. His vision is Kevin. Kevin is right. He has Hitler's vision. Kevin is right. Hitler's right. The rest of the world just come with me and the sycophants do. You just compared Kevin to Hitler? Yes.

I did because he has that strength of mind to think that he is so right. He said it on the podcast. Everybody else is wrong. He's always right. Now, I know a lot of people like that. Okay. Everybody. Everybody at the table at some point would probably think they're more right

of course but you do what i like about you know the most is you will listen you know what i mean and you you don't have to have that opinion and i think the three of you are all like that you will listen to somebody else's opinion and that that's what makes friends, and that's what makes podcasts, and that's what, you know, on different levels of things. You could make it a podcast or a friendship or whatever. Kevin has none of that skill, none. He doesn't care if you're his friend or not his friend or, you know, on a podcast or not on a podcast.

He wants it to be about him, and he is right. So why do you stay? Why do you stay doing the show? I stay because I know the greater thing of the show is it's it's good when it's good it's really good but i can't get him and i i can't get him to see why that first 20 minutes i'm trying that's what i think i think i can fix this you know like the first 20 minutes it was so good with gnome and the show was great and yeah i didn't have to be there for that. When that cell phone went off and the next 40 minutes

is him just going, fuck this, fuck this podcast, the ride cast, people suck, everything sucks, the equipment sucks and it's just about nothing

at that point. I don't think that's what really happened, Lenny. What I was thinking was going on was that he had run out

and he was going to, and he just focused on this thing. He run out. And he just focused on this thing. He ran out of things to say? Yeah, to try to fight. If I was there with you and we were talking about whatever, you were asking him about what political issue or... I don't know.

It was either the kid with the alligator... Oh, no. Nobody should have a gun. And he admitted, I should not have a gun. Now, he wrote that. I call him the walking personification of gun control arguments. And he actually said, I should not have a gun. Which admitted i should not have a gun now he i call him the walking personification of gun control arguments and he actually said i should not have a gun which i was like oh my god this is the greatest thing he's ever said yes he should not have a gun and then i would have led into you know his policies on gun control or what did you think about you know like you know uh who should have a gun or you know keep that conversation going because it always leads him to something

else even if it's me saying that for a minute. Or somebody asks a question. Well, it's funny that you say that, Kevin. I printed off the emails and somebody asked you, what's your policy with children? Or if that story had come out when I was there, did you hear this story about a guy who shot himself, his kid, the other

day at a gun range in Florida. 65-year-old guy, 15-year-old kid. On purpose he shot his kid? He was reaching for his kid. Like Cheney style. Yeah, he shot and he ended up killing his kid. And the first thing out of his mouth was, well, the old line, you know,

the gun didn't kill the kid, I killed the kid. Like, he even defended the guy, even defended gun control until his own kid's death. And I was like, one, I should ask Noam this question. What do you think about that? And two, why wouldn't I ask Kevin that? That would have led us to another 20 minutes. Or he could have talked about

people being on their phones all the time. Anything. Cell phones. Which he's done. He's done that too. Something led to another one. We were talking about Natterman on a city bike for 15 minutes. It ended up being a thing. In the end, you don't want to make Paul McCartney solo albums and John Lennon solo albums.

None of them were any good. You got to stick together. Wings was good. You didn't like Wings? Yeah, it's all right. It's all right, but it wasn't the Beatles. Look, we try as hard as we can, but at some point, it's just, you know. It's just Kevin.

It won't happen. And Ringo, but I'm not saying you're Ringo. I'm just saying it's fine. We're talking about podcasting. Well, Noam and I have a similar problem, but I think it's getting better. Because Noam and I have conflicting visions as well. We've talked about that. Yeah, but neither of us are crazy. But here's my favorite part. Can I tell you the favorite part of the podcast? After you had talked about like what splits we were supposed to get and none of you said 50-50, only Esty you had talked about what splits we were supposed to get, and none of you said 50-50, only Esty and Colin said 50-50, and I was like...

What did I say? No, I told them 50-50. Well, at the end, you eventually came over to this. You started a couple months ago with it shouldn't be... No, I told Kevin privately it should be 50-50. Well, you two didn't. Then what happened, the most interesting thing happened, it was my favorite part.

You got a check from Sirius Radio for like $2,500. How should we split that up? And that next 20 seconds of silence was my, I laughed for about, I had to pause the thing and laugh for half an hour. Because you were literally in the exact same situation that Kevin and I were in for that 20 seconds. And you said, I didn't expect a dime. And I was like, what?

And Kristen was like, and then Kristen just said very quiet. And you said, no, actually went 33, 33, 33. Got very benevolent with that. And I was like, you know what? That's a guy right there. That's a good dude right there. 33, 34. Well, you had to take out expenses for stuff.

Where is that check? I haven't even seen the check. If anyone's seen it, it, 34. Well, you had to take out expenses for stuff, right? Where is that check? I haven't even seen the check. Go ahead. If anyone's seen it, it's you. I'm not sure. I don't think we got it yet. That tension for the next like five minutes while you were splitting it up, whatever. Take that and put it in the hands of a mental patient.

Yeah, of course. And that's what you get with us. But you had the same moment there that we did. So don't fucking tell me. Yeah, but there's one big difference. We're actually going to get a check for $2,500. You guys are arguing about no money. Here's the funniest thing.

We would get a check. That's what I said. Why are they arguing about anything before they even have the money to fight about? I'll tell you what happened. I was like, good thing you brought that up. So we had a chance to get a sponsor. And the sponsor was going gonna pay us good money but the spot so kevin's idea was let's give him a little taste what we'll give him like a little taste we'll mention him on this next one and then

we'll have we'll go back and negotiate i'm like why would you do that why would you do if this guy wants to advertise let's average let's get him him the pay, or I never want to talk about him again. Always be closing. Always be closing, right. But suddenly, Kevin has a heart. So we show him a little bit. From that point on, down the toilet. Down the toilet.

The whole thing, all that money, poof. So he sabotaged himself because that's what he does. But he'll tell you it was everybody else's fault. It was that guy's fault. It was the way we negotiated with him or Rob's brand, the head of the network negotiated with him. It wasn't. It was whatever.

These things happen. It could be that thing. These things happen. But it was also Kevin with the guy didn't respond in an appropriate amount of time, 14 seconds later, and then Kevin went, what in an appropriate amount of time, 14 seconds later. And then Kevin went, he's fucking cheap, fucks. Oh, my God. And so now, you know, and then he decided to do this end around stuff with money, you know,

which is also pissing off the network and, you know, a donate button. All the other podcasts on the network have a donate button on their website. Kevin goes, I want a personal one on my website. And he's getting money from it. Yeah. And the sycophants on our thing decided, you know what? He is the show. We're just going to hand him money. Somebody sent him $250. A guy sent him $250.

He goes, on the show, Kevin lists out, just off the cuff, what he'll give you if you give him $250. So we'll send you something if you give, like, $50. We'll just send you something. Well, what's that Kevin? Right. I don't know. Something, uh, a D a DVD, a CD yours, mine, a shows like what a pencil. Yeah. Old underwear. It was really funny. It was really funny. And

then he goes a hundred, but I don't know if he's serious. So he gets a two 50 and he's like, you can come in and sit on the show. You want to clear that with anyone? Or he just said, that's the way it's going to be. So yeah, a guy gave him personally $250 off of his website. And now he expects so Kevin sends me the email that says this guy wants to come on August 15th and sit in

on the show. This is a great idea. Yeah, it's been done. Anybody who wants to come and sit in on our show It's $250. Send $45, $50. No, show, it's $250. Send $45, $50. Oh, no, not $50. You gotta be... $30. How much? No, you say $250.

It should be at least $250. $250. $250 to Dan Natterman. By the way, they don't speak on the show. They can sit in. They can put the headphones on, whatever. Then if we ask them something, but they're not in. We charge them per word.

Yeah, I think it's $500 or $1,000. Then you get to sit in. It might not be legal on the radio, so let's not do that. I have no idea what it is. Being married is so fucking stupid now, right? Especially with Tinder and shit. It's so easy to get laid, right? Your phone does all the work for you.

I feel like I'm making butter at home being married and shit with my kids and fucking wife. Tinder finds you whores and then Uber will drive you to these whores. I mean, is that like, is that a miracle? You don't even need a wingman or a fucking Mickey to put in girls drinks or whatever they call them. What do they call them? Roofies? anyway i don't have marriages for me but i'm not that good a husband because after a while i just don't it's just fucking so annoying right but i was i wasn't a good boyfriend either every girlfriend i ever had when we were breaking up she was they would say the same thing you'll never be with anyone like me ever again. I'm like, that's the plan, you know? But I always would.

And plus, we got kids now, so kids are annoying. Little kids. And you can't sleep when you got little kids. So you're always like sleep deprived and mad

and just, you end up fighting with your wife about like anything. When we had sex the other night, we got into a fight because I groaned.

My wife goes, you like that? I go, yeah. She goes, what else you like? I said, a clean kitchen. She's a fucking slob. I'm not even kidding. She's a slob. She's Hispanic. I thought it was in their DNA to keep shit clean.

Have you guys ever been to a hotel? The Marriott? Podcast at ComedySellar.com. I got to double check the email address because we moved our server a couple weeks ago. Please do, because we used to get all kinds of emails, and now they've kind of slowed down. So, Mr. Katz. So, we have a guest.

He'll stay there, Lenny. All right. We've been joined by Mark Katz, who is an American humorous speechwriter, author, and humor consultant, but he wrote the book, Clinton and Me. He was Bill Clinton's comedy writer for the

Correspondents Dinner and other things like that, correct? Your Wikipedia entry that you went to is accurate. Well, I've been reading your book, actually, but I, you know... You're the guy. My publisher told me there was someone. I'm so excited

to meet you. It says here Miramax Books. Is that related to the Miramax Film Company? It was at one point. But they're out of business. The book company is out of business. Yes. But the book is available on Amazon for 11 cents, and I promise you it's

worth every penny. It says Hyperion, so Miramax is like an imprint of Hyperion? Yes, it is. I'm sure this is so interesting. Hey, hey, dude, dude, dude, don't sabotage it. Read him the ISBN number. Don't sabotage the cast. Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

Don't be Kevin. Don't sabotage the cast unless you want me to critique everything you say. Okay, go ahead, Dan, go ahead, go ahead. No, well, I'm finished with my... I'm finished with the particular line of public aggravation that I did. Now, were you an aspiring stand-up comic when you... No. Thankfully, God spared me that gene that made me want to stand up in front of others and humiliate myself.

But I'm a sit-down comic. He's a humorist. I'm a humorist. So I started out like every other comedian did by getting thrown out of classes and had the same impulse, but I focus on the written word. So how did you get the job writing jokes for Bill Clinton? Well, like I said, I started out as a wiseass and I worked my way up. Right, but...

Okay, how did you get on his radar? Okay, so, let's see. First job out of college, I go to work on the Dukakis campaign. Okay. So I made a wrong step right out of there, but, you know, you were the guy that told him

to get on the tank. I was counting the seconds. Every time I say the word Dukakis, I start to count down in my head. Ten, nine, and... Before I get to six, someone says tank. You have a winner.

Say the magic word, win $100. So on the Dukakis campaign, if you can believe this, I'm the guy who made Mike Dukakis so funny. It's my first job out of school. It's 1988. And I'm put in a room with me. It's the size of this in a room with me.

It's size of this table right here, and it's me, and it's George Stephanopoulos, and a guy named Andy Savage, who's still a friend of mine to this day. And it was our job. We were the rapid response team, and it was our job to come up with the— this is pre-Internet, by the way, but it was our job to come up with the sound bites that were the hand tools and the daily barb of political warfare. For Dukakis. I didn't realize Stephanopoulos

worked for Dukakis. Absolutely he did. Well, he was a young Greek politico. There were Greek people coming crossing our borders to go work for Dukakis. He had to be really young at that time. Yes, right. He was about 27 or so. Wow. After the campaign, you may know know Dukakis didn't win.

And I went into advertising after that. But when the Clinton campaign started up, George called me up and asked me if I was interested in working on the Clinton campaign and writing humor. And it all took off from there. And wound up, I had this idea that I should be the guy writing the president's jokes for the White House Correspondents Dinner. The Gridiron Dinner, the White House Correspondents Dinner, all those damn old years. What kind of background check do they do on you?

Does the FBI have to check? I mean, you're going to be in a room with the president, right? You could be a Manchurian candidate. Don't they have to check your family, your friends in high school? I never did. So I did not work in the White House. I was a consultant to the Democratic National Committee. But no, the FBI never came to my house and asked what kind of organizations I belonged to or talked to my friends.

And so I could have been a Manchurian candidate. Because I had a woman who worked. I may, in my judgment, anti-American and hateful of the country. Oh, and you were waiting? And years later, I got contacted by, I think it was the CIA. They're doing a background check on her.

And I'm like, no, do not hire her. She hates this country. And they hired her. Oh, wow. Yeah, they hired her anyway. And maybe she grew out of it. hire her. She hates this country. And they hired her. Oh, wow. Yeah, they hired her anyway. Maybe she grew out of it. I know they do background checks for people.

She's going to be a mole or something. I don't know. Now you pass the checks and you meet President Bill Clinton for the first time. That's right. Where was that? Well, the first time I'd met him in Little Rock, but then for the first White House Correspondents

Dinner, it's April of 1993, and I had spent two weeks writing jokes that I thought he should deliver to the White House Correspondents Dinner. And you've got to remember, so I'm writing... This is his first Correspondents Dinner? That's right, first in office. And I had written

all these kind of self-directed, self-effacing jokes about, and you have to remember he had a horrible first 100 days in office. I mean, dreadful. Gays in the military,

his stimulus plan that failed, a guy with a haircut on the tarmac of LAX that got held up by the plane. Exactly. All these crazy,

but they were terrible first 100 days. A travel gate, was that in the first 100 days? Yes. And I'd the plane, yeah. Exactly. All these crazy, but they were terrible first-hand jokes. And Travelgate, was that in the first-hand? Yes. And I'd written all these self-directed jokes and I go in there

and he's looking at it and he's very, very confused because he doesn't understand why he should go up in front of the White House press corps

and make jokes about himself. He says, where are the jokes about them? Where I want to tell jokes that kind of, in his mind,

you got to remember, he came from Arkansas, which has a very different political culture. He's a hick, you know. In Arkansas, humor is a stick you beat other people up with,

right? Okay. And it wasn't self, it's only, you know, only your savvy politician or your average Jew understands

that humor should be self-directed and self-effacing, right? It was completely foreign thought to him. So he sent me back to my desk to write jokes about the mean jokes. He wanted score-settling jokes. That never works. No, no. And this was kind of the arc. And that night he did do some of the best jokes I remember from that night was, what was the joke?

He says, oh, God, just ran out of my head. That's okay. You take your time. It'll come to you. You want to look in the book? He goes, oh, I don't think, his White House correspondent speech corresponded to his first 100 days in office, right? Which everyone knows is kind of the first big test you have to pass. All the papers write an evaluation of your first 100 days.

And he says. Traditionally, they don't criticize a president until after his first 100 days. They give him a chance to get his sea legs. That's right. And then Clinton comes out and says, and then referencing all the horrible things that got wrong, said, I don't think I'm doing that bad. After his first 100 days in office, William Henry Harrison had already been dead for 68

days. That's pretty good. That's a good joke. So that was his biggest laugh of the night. Then he went on to tell jokes at the expense of Rush Limbaugh and actually turned them into three-day stories. Then he went on to tell jokes at the expense of Rush Limbaugh and actually turned them into three-day stories.

When he went on to settle scores, he created problems for himself. And over the course of the eight years I worked on these speeches, he came to understand that you do not settle scores in these dinners. You really do take aim at yourself and prove to everyone in this room,

these are the most cynical people in the room. It's the White House Correspondents Dinner. It's the Correspondents. And then C-SPAN's viewers watching at home. And you're out to prove to them that you're the biggest person in the room. It's a self-administered character test where you're being evaluated how hard you're willing to go at yourself. Well, does he know himself?

He doesn't have a persona other than what he's created. So does he know the persona that's already been created for him? He knows a persona, but he's not, he wasn't open to the idea of using humor to kind of say things about himself that he would otherwise strenuously deny. Well, I don't know if that's interesting or not. There's nothing wrong with a good roast either, you know. You guys can redirect me on this,

but it makes me think of something that I find interesting, which is that we, I mean, Clinton is, by all accounts, the most gifted politician of our era, right? Like, that's what most people will say, that even his detractors. He's a once-in-a-generation political talent.

But why if he doesn't understand what... That's fascinating. We tend to think that geniuses can do no wrong. But it's often the case that these geniuses will make colossal errors. Like, Clinton

famously spoke for... did an hour-long speech at the Democratic Convention and put the whole room to, you'd think this guy was so self-aware. And I always think of George Lucas

after he did Star Wars. What was it? Howard the Duck. The same genius that knew that Star Wars The answer to your question is we all are aware of the blinds,

of his blind spots. And he has them. Blind spots is a good way to put it. Even the great geniuses have blind spots. That's right. And I would say if I'm proud of anything, I think I helped him kind of overcome

this deficit in his understanding of this particular area of political communications, which is how to use humor as a strategic weapon. You don't want to use it to settle scores and take aim at others. You really do want to use it to settle scores and take aim at others. You really do want to show how strong you are

and how confident you are by saying, even these things that I'm joking about right now don't scare me. I will talk about them. Didn't Obama just do some great jokes about Donald Trump, I think, that everybody appreciates? Absolutely.

And that was a clinic. But those were jokes about another person. Okay, yes, good point. And the point I would make is once you've been— He's very aggressive, I know. Once you've been—the first rule of political humor is being self-deprecating. Well, I'm just trying to offer a counterpoint. The first rule is being self-deprecating, and the second rule is once you've been sufficiently self-deprecating, you've acquired the right to be self-deprecating on behalf of others. Right, to deprecate others.

Well, do you feel that to be a rule of humor in general or just in the context of the political correspondence? Well, in the political realm. I mean, you know. I agree. I think that's everywhere. Don't you, Dan? But the president is not a comedian. The president is a president. He's an unusually powerful person.

And a joke that's right for a comedian is only, is rarely right for a president. You really have to calibrate it to who he is, the position he, you know, his power. So he didn't say, like, y'all farting in front of each other yet? That's a joke that's very popular among comedians. I mean, listen, there's rules of thumb, and then, you know, they have some relationship to the real world. It's extremely charming and disarming to see the most powerful man in the world be self-deprecating. That's endearing, right? But Trump, I think Trump is so universally, is considered a buffoon by that entire room at the Correspondents' Dinner.

And also, it doesn't feel like Obama's being a bully when he picks on Trump, and that's one of the big reasons. Well, right, and that's one of the ways humor is one of the great signifiers of self-knowledge. Right? You get to say things. Well, you don't want to punch down is what you're saying, which I think is more of a universal rule. Right. And with these speeches, and as Clinton started

using self-deprecating, self-directed humor more and more, he did kind of show a greater self-awareness over time. You couldn't get those kind of jokes past Donald Trump. He wouldn't understand them. They wouldn't make any sense to him whatsoever. In defense of Donald Trump, I have been to two different roasts of Donald Trump

where he sat there. You know, the guy is difficult to pigeonhole because he sat there and he took joke after joke, it's difficult to pigeon him because he sat there and he took joke after joke after joke about his hair, about his love life,

everything. And he laughed and enjoyed it and then did a second one. But that's the thing about narcissists. As long as you're talking about them,

they're fine. As long as they're the topic, they're cool with it. He would do one every day if they talked about him. A narcissist doesn't care whether they're Jesus or Hitler.

They just want to be the center of attention. Like Kevin Brennan. Like Kevin Brennan? I don't know that he would take too kindly to... Bill Clinton has often been accused of being a narcissist, even by people closer to him, like Dick Morris and people like that. Well, no. A narcissist is someone who lacks the capacity for empathy,

and he's the I-feel-your-pain president and made his... If it's sincere, but... It is sincere. I do want to just go back to a point you made, Noma. You used one of your favorite words about five minutes ago. The word is genius, and you applied it to it. But you do enjoy that word, and I think you overuse it. But why is Bill Clinton a genius again?

Can you maybe refresh me? I said he's considered to be one of the great political geniuses of our time, is what I said. And I'm saying that's what people say about him. Do they? I wasn't even saying. But in what context? And my counter to that, and I'll stand by it,

was he's a once-in-a-generation political talent. All right. That's another way to... And that is his genius. And look, he's as good... He's got an amazing set of skills. I mean, even as a communicator, there's this great story about the time

when he went to deliver his... to the well of the Congress to deliver his speech about the health care plan. I know this story. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So he gets... He's on live national television. He's about to give this speech about, it's like a State of the Union address environment, but it wasn't State of the Union address.

They have the wrong speech loaded up on the teleprompter. It's on live television. And he starts delivering the speech he knows he's supposed to give, because he can think on his feet in full sentences and paragraphs, and he's doing it, waiting for the guy in the teleprompter to realize oh wait a minute i've got the wrong speech now you or i had we been in that situation would have been speak for yourself and continue go ahead had i been in that situation i would have been taken out of that room on a stretcher by paramedics right i would have passed out. But he exhibited skills

people didn't know existed before he exhibited them. Dan? Huh? Is that pretty impressive? He's got photographic memory. That's beyond photographic memory. I don't think he recited

the speech from memory. He didn't recite the speech. He made it up again. He rewrote it. Yeah, yeah. No, the guy... Well, he does some good improv skills. I'd like to see how he does

in front of an Obey and Anthony crowd. All right, so... One more challenge. Probably never forgot girls' names either. You know what I mean? Well, he was... Well, the other thing, by the way... Did you meet Monica Lewinsky? I never did.

And I was pissed because at the time, you know, I was 30 years old, young and handsome and Jewish. And I was like, why is this guy having sex with Jewish interns that I should be having sex with? I thought he was kind of swimming in my pool. You know what I mean? Did you ever... Did you ever get any vibe about the Lothario Bill Clinton

from him? Did you ever get that? I once... I once heard him make a remark about a very pretty woman standing about 10 feet away, and he said something to the effect of, if I were a younger man. And I took that. I was actually heartened by it.

I heard a guy who knew who he was, who he once was, who he is today. And one, I couldn't believe he said it out loud. It was a bunch of close aides and me. Right. But he said it out loud. And it was remarkable. He was probably banging that girl. No, no, really.

I wouldn't know the difference. I wouldn't know the answer to that question. But I do know he said something to that effect. Can you explain to me how any president can get away with any of that? Those days may be over. 24-7. They were over then, though.

Well, that's why he— But how do you have any time to do anything without 10 guys around you? That's why he banged Monica Lewinsky. Obviously, he could have done— You don't watch The Scandal, obviously. No. It's very true to real life. They have plenty of time.

They have way more time than I think. He's obviously trying to brag about how long it takes for true to real life they have plenty of time they have way more time than I think Lenny's obviously trying to brag about how long it takes for him to have sex but the average guy can get it done

pretty quickly Lenny pretty quickly no I mean how do you even set that up like you have to like these clandestine meetings over and over

that's why he fucked Monica because she was there instead of I don't think he had sex well he did with a blowjob

whatever your agenda from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep. They have downtime. It's got to be. Or uptime, whatever.

Listen, if you can get a good crew of guys around you who will cover your tracks, anything can be done. Well, here's the thing. I mean, people were, there was no one matter in all of America about what Bill Clinton did, circa Monica Lewinsky, than people who worked in the White House. I mean, when I was working in the White House, I didn't get a legal cable because I worked in the White House. I'm like, you know what? I work for the President of the United States. I should probably do my things above board.

And when people found out, when the truth came out, the angriest people in the world were the people who worked for him. And Hillary. Okay. Okay, we see, yeah, we see behind her. By the people that worked for him, you're talking about the guy that had to clean up the carpet? Isn't it an amazing chapter of American history?

I mean, the guy, first of all, you know, this is where they always say that the cover-up is worse than the crime. Of course. Everybody says, of course, it's not true because the cover-up is worse than the crime. Of course. Everybody says, of course. It's not true because the cover-up worked. He so exhausted the nation with this Lewinsky thing. By the time he finally, if he had come out with it,

admitted it on the day that it broke, he would have had to resign. Everybody thought he was going to resign. He just fought it and fought it and fought it until everybody was exhausted. And then finally it came out. But there was a price to pay. I mean, it's hard to argue that

but for Monica Lewinsky, Al Gore would have won in 2000. Can you hold that thought? That's interesting. But my question is, not my question, my observation is that he could have never counted on her saving the dress. That is the

one fact in that whole story that somebody told her, don't clean that dress. This is when DNA was really just nascent. Before CSI. Is that what it was? It was before. It was right around the ocean. It was right around.

Yeah, I mean, he was free and clear. You know, free and clear. And then a DNA test brought him down. I mean, that's a great script right there. That's a great script. Well, if that whole scandal doesn't happen, what are we thinking of him? Not only would there be a different president, but what would his legacy have been? Because that's what, you know.

Can I tell you the backstory? Lenny actually probably hates Bill Clinton because he cheated on his wife. No, I hate politics in general. I think they're all horrible human beings. To answer your question, I think that whole part of his presidency turned the story of his presidency into a character study rather than a case study in a great presidency. Exactly. I think historians will marvel and study his character more than anything else. There were great accomplishments, and he really did create that bridge to the 21st century he wanted to.

There's a lot to be proud of. But to me, he's the dumbest person in the world because all he has to do is keep it in his pants for eight years. That's it. That sounds so easy when you say it that way. No, but he's the president of the United States. If you can't keep yourself occupied for eight years,

the day he leaves office, he divorces Hillary. Sweet, sweet Lenny. Divorces Hillary and can do whatever he wants. He can have women coming at him. Your grandmother

must be so proud. Oh, my God. Just suck it off for eight. You're the president. You have to say suck it up. Come on, Lenny. Lenny, you stink. Just suck it up. You're the president. You have to say suck it up. Come on, Danny. Lenny. Lenny, you stink.

Have you not known temptation in your life? Oh, my God. Yeah, I know temptation, but it wouldn't have been Monica Lewinsky. I can tell you that. How old was he? 50 years old? Is he 45? These are his waning years.

He could have had 20-year-olds when he's 60. Come on. It would have been a leaving. People are carrying him up on their shoulders. Let me ask you this. Let's say you have. His waning years of... He could have had 20-year-olds when he's 60. Come on. It would have been a... I don't know. People are carrying him up on their shoulders. Let me ask you this. Terrible. Let's say you have a loveless marriage with a woman you no longer find attractive.

Am I the president of the United States? I'm just saying. Okay, I'm just saying. Am I the president of the United States? You're making a lot of assumptions. I mean, a lot of people do talk about their relationship, and I know nothing that anyone else does, you know, a lot of people do talk about their relationship and I know nothing that anyone else does

but, you know, I'm perfectly willing to believe that there is a genuine, you know, there's a genuine marriage and these people

genuinely love each other and I think anything else is just people. All right, well, let's say there's a marriage where, for whatever reason,

the passion has gone out of your marriage. Is that a, like every marriage? Be that as it may, whether he loved her or he didn't love her, the fact is,

new pussy. It's always... I'm sure he does love her. I think they have a very, very warm relationship, in fact. Well, he had been cheating on her again and again

and again. Even I know stories and this is ridiculous stories. Yeah, I mean, the guy... He's his dog, but one can be a dog know stories, and this is ridiculous stories. Yeah, I mean, the guy, he's legendary. One can be a dog, and still, you can both be right. They could have a genuine marriage with love, and yet he couldn't fuck her anymore.

If she wins the presidency, they would have to kind of tag him like he was like a dog or something like, you know what I mean? He's got a chip in him. A chip in him. They're going to have to put a chip in him like he's a dog. When you hear these stories about these women who claim that he went further, that he crossed certain lines of decency with them,

exposing himself or, God forbid, assaulting them, whatever it is. God forbid. Do you dismiss them? Do you think they could be true? I don't know why you needed that, God forbid. You don't want me to ask you that? They're unknowable and they're political. Well, no, they're not political.

Well, they are political. I mean, they're a useful political tool. Right, but the girl, like, I forget, I'm not a big buff on this stuff, but I know,

like, one of the girls actually told it to her friend the day that it happened while he was Attorney General of Arkansas. You know, some of them are similar to, like, Obama's birth announcement in Hawaii paper.

Some of them are, like, evidence that something happened. I don't know if they have what she says, but they're not evidence that it's not political. You know, they're contemporaneous complaints by these girls. Look, they're useful political tools for his enemies, and there are no shortage of those.

Right, but we'll never know. Are they believable to you? You know what? They're disturbing to read. Look, you also got to remember this guy, he's a joke meister. You know what? They're disturbing to read. You also got to remember this guy, he's a joke meister. You know. Maybe I'm crossing the line of what I'm even asking you. It's just when I, how often do I get to meet

someone who's met Bill Clinton and you know, when you meet somebody, you get a vibe about somebody, you know. My job was to help him kind of find his humor voice to navigate through these you know, these waters. I mean, this is a guy who through through his own actions, wound up in a

constitutional crisis, right? And we're on uncharted waters. Andrew Johnson's joke writer left very poor notes, and he was the last president to be impeached. That's stick. Wait a second here. Wait, line. But that was my job.

So I'll tell you funny. In the middle of all this stuff I actually took it very hard that he did this stuff and I was very disappointed are you married? I was married since I was not married at the time

and I actually thought about I was like do I really want to keep writing jokes for this guy in the middle of all this stuff I was so upset by it. I have a younger brother who's a professor of law, and he's my in-house ethicist. And I said, do I really want to write jokes for this guy?

And he says, let me ask you a question, Mark. Has his attorney general resigned? I said, no. Has his vice president resigned? No. Has the Joint Chiefs of Staff resigned? You're his fucking joke writer. Write this guy some fucking jokes.

Okay? And I got off the phone and I wrote the jokes. And I kid you not, Lenny would have resigned. I don't know about that. That's not true. But the question is, so you wrote for both of the correspondence dinners that he did? Both. Every year.

Oh, every year. So how many did you write? I wrote, well, there are four speeches every year. Okay. White House Correspondence Center, Radio and Television Correspondence Center, the Gridiron Dinner, and something called the Alfalfa Club. So it's from January through April, basically, or May. So in those months, he would give four speeches,

and I would write all four of them, not in a room by myself, but working with the other smart, talented people, also reaching out to some really funny people. So I called it being the running the comedy war room. It was my job to kind of be the architect of the speech, but I was not certainly the sole author of it. And what are you doing in between? Like, these are just, you're in the White House every day and just amassing material?

No, I would parachute into the White House two weeks before each one of these speeches. I lived in New York all these years. And what were you doing? I was just waiting to write. I had a consultant. I do different speech writing projects. The name of my firm is Enterprise, called the Soundbite Institute,

and I do different speech writing and humor writing. You did a joke over a bomb, and Clinton said, I'd fucking care. So, okay, the answer is I'm very proud of the fact that no joke I ever wrote kind of turned into a story, a problem. And that's no small accomplishment.

And this is radio, but you will attest to the fact that I'm patting myself on the back right now. So I am proud of that. There were jokes that did bomb, but those were him freelancing. I could point you to a couple of jokes where he was up there and feeling it, and he decides to kind of go off script. And a couple of those jokes created problems, and that was part of his learning process.

He had to feel the sting of what the wrong joke will do to learn how to use humor. Where did he test the jokes? Did he come down to Gotham? It's hard to test. You can't test the jokes. There would be hours and hours.

Somewhere buried in the shtick. There were rehearsals. The hard part about writing jokes in the White House is that there are half a dozen people in the entire place who can write a joke, and there are 200 people in the place who can kill a joke. That is tough. And that was the real challenge of it.

But we would rehearse it. And before every speech started, I would meet with the head of one of the top political aides, and they would tell me what was off the table, what we couldn't talk about. And in my mind, every time they said a topic like that, I said

we must find a way to talk about this. And that's the difference between a humor mindset and the humor paradigm, and kind and what I call the legal paradigm or the political paradigm, which is humor paradigm is concede everything. The legal paradigm is concede nothing. And the political paradigm, which I think I had a hand in helping them understand is do what works. It's a pragmatic power. When you concede nothing or next to nothing and get back something,

that's a trade you should make every time. And in this case, what you're getting back is, sounds like laughter, but it's really political capital. Every time I tell a joke or someone tells a joke and you laugh, we just agreed about something. If I say a joke and you laugh, we just agreed. Now, what do you do with that? Where do you go with that? How do you spend that capital? Because the next words out of your mouth are that much more believable. So after you concede

something, okay, he said that, now I know this guy is on the level with me and I will give him more leeway as he tries to explain to me the next thing. Can you just repeat that thing you said, when you concede nothing, it's a trade you should make every time? What was that? Concede the obvious. I can't remember.

Is there a transcript? Is anyone writing that? Concede nothing and gain something. What was it? Conceding the obvious. It reminded me of Kevin. It reminded me of what I told Kevin. It's like,

I told him, you're giving away, like you guys aren't making any money yet. I said, you're conceding nothing and getting back a show. It's a trade you should make every time. Right.

That's what you should tell Kevin. Well, he hears you. I told you, he's the dumbest person you know. Like it never goes in. A narcissist blocks that. You think Kevin's a narcissist too? Totally.

Did you meet Hillary? No empathy. I never wrote a speech for her. You think she might hire you? Why are you proposing that? One crisis at a time. First she's got to get elected.

There's something in my sound. Everyone's. That sounds pretty likely that she's got to get elected. There's something in my sound. Everyone's. No, not me. Don't worry about it. That sounds pretty likely that she's going to get elected. Here's what I would tell her. It's basically what I just said. She's too good of a lawyer is basically her problem when it comes to humor. You really have to be

willing to concede something to get something back. Lawyers, you concede nothing. They make you prove you're even in the room. You know, she's too good a lawyer and that will be a hindrance to her

when it comes to using humor as a tool. Charm is not her thing. Although I hear that personally, she's much more charming than she is in public, but she's stiff in public. I mean, there's... Well, you know, it's also got to be believable. I mean, you know, the great thing about these dinners

is you get to say, these White House correspondents, it's the one day of the year you get to say, speak the subtext. You get to say the thing that everyone knows that few people say. And you really got to embrace that moment. It's a great opportunity to say the unsayable

or the unsaid. Actually, it's not the unsayable. You can say the unsaid. Comedians can say the unsayable. How awesome is Barack Obama at these things? He's been very good, in recent years especially. He's good, right? He's down to earth and he's younger.

But wait, let me ask you something. I think Hillary Clinton gets a really bad rap for what you said. For being stiff? For being stiff, because look at Al Gore, maybe the stiffest guy ever. One of the jokes in his thing, he says, we're not having a White House Christmas tree this year, we're going to hang ornaments on Al Gore.

That was your joke, right? I also wrote a bunch of speeches for Al Gore, too. And he was actually an interesting contrast to Bill Clinton. You know, there are plenty of jokes you could not tell Bill Clinton because he would get mad. You could not say some

jokes to him because he would get mad. He wouldn't get mad at you, but they would incite fury in him. Like Jewish jokes? No, jokes about things he didn't want to concede. Yeah. Or didn't believe to be true. About himself?

Yeah, yeah. You could tell Al Gore any joke, and he would say... Al Gore could see himself from across the room in a way Bill Clinton could not. I totally agree. Even when he does the documentary, you could tell he just doesn't have a way to – he's not like outwardly funny. You know what I mean? But you could tell who gets a joke and who doesn't get a joke.

And I do think Hillary Clinton gets these jokes, but she's so guarded. She's so afraid that she's going to lose, that she won't win. She knows that if she just plays. Why are you defending Hillary Clinton yet again? What is your thing with Hillary Clinton? I'm just saying. She's stiff. Everybody knows she's stiff.

She's not even close to stiff as any of the last whatever. George Bush, stiff? No. First one, second one, both stiff? No. Terribly. Way more stiff than Hillary. No.

Oh, my God. Barack Obama, not stiff. Not stiff, but. Smooth. He's a loose food. I, my God. Barack Obama, not stiff. Not stiff, but smooth. He's a loose food. I would say she, to use Barack Obama's term, she's likable enough. But he was deriding her, but go ahead. Actually, I didn't think he was deriding her at that time. I actually thought he was actually trying to be kind at that moment.

I have a different take on that. All right. But I also think she's got room to improve. I think you have seen moments where she really has done well, sitting, you know, on Saturday Night Live and sitting across from these guys, you know, the late night guys. Yeah, she was good on SNL. She can do it.

She can do it. Although I thought when she was there giving those speeches with Elizabeth Warren, Elizabeth Warren made her look small to me. Elizabeth Warren was so much just more at ease and powerful. She's very small. She just doesn't want to do it. I don't have anyone here.

Can I take a look at them? Yeah, take, take, take. Dan, you want to go to a spot? Or Lenny, you want to talk about it? Well, I'm sort of the... Actually, we're... I'll go. I'll go.

It's fine. Yeah, go ahead, Lenny. We're almost finished anyway. Go ahead. Go ahead, Lenny. This is real comedy seller action in progress. We have no comedian.

We make signs just for people who speak Spanish. So people who speak Spanish. So people who speak Spanish don't die in New York City. Anybody speak Spanish? Nobody. One, one person. And it wasn't C, it was yes.

So she knew exactly what I was saying. But we need a whole sign for people with the question marks at the beginning and at the end of every sentence. What up, Bob, what? So I'm on the train, I see a sign in Spanish, and it's a woman holding onto the pole on the train. It takes me three weeks to translate the sign, because I'm like, this has got to be really bad.

You know what the sign says? Hold onto the pole. You're telling me there's people out there, Spanish-speaking people, that don't know to hold onto to the pole on the subway? Do they get on the train? Hola. Whoa.

Why do they get a sign? There's so many groups in New York City. Why don't you just give everybody a sign? There's gay people. Where's the gay people sign? Be like, hey. Hold on to the pole. Not that pole.

People think we're just angry. We're angry because it's moronic, some of this shit that we have to put up. Everybody know how to use their Metro card? Have you seen one of these? Everybody? Yeah, because it's not really that fucking tough to go through the thing. But if you,

how many times do you have to hit it before you should die as a human being? Without boop, boop, boop, boop. Holy shit, how many times are you going to bang your crotch on the thing before you look to see that it will let you through?

If you take, I've seen this happen a hundred times. You take 10 girls, there are nine on inside and one on the outside. And the one on the outside is having a nervous breakdown every time. At least once a week. She's going, I can't do it.

It's not me, it's the car. I can't try this one. I can't try. Forget it, you guys go. You guys go. And she died right there. It's like, forget it, you guys go. You guys go. And she died right there. It was weird.

First of all, I'm outraged that you suggested I go. I thought I was the co-host of this show. Yes, Dan, of course you are, but we only have five minutes left and I thought you would want the spot. And I was supposed to be best for the show.

Very funny. And that was the way he expressed outrage. No, I'm not outraged, but that was interesting. It was a tough position for me to be in. I had to ask one of them to do the spot. Yeah, how about the one that's not the fucking co-host of the show? First of all, you're here every week. He figured Lenny's not usually here, so you do the spot.

Well, Lenny's not the co-host of the show. Sophie's choice, it was not. It was. Let me tell you why. Because if I said, hey, Lenny, you want to do that spot? Dan would have thought to himself, oh, he must have thought Lenny would be the stronger act. You would have thought that. No. No, I would not.

Okay. And because we have an issue on this show, Mark, that you're not privy to because you're not here every week because you're busy at the Soundbite Institute. You're going to now witness another person who cannot see himself from across the room. Easy. But Noam does not the Soundbite Institute. You're going to now witness another person who cannot see himself from across the room. Easy, easy.

But Noam is not able to tell people to leave. You see, this show is a lot like a New York City apartment. Easy to get people in, harder in hell to get them out. Now, oftentimes we'll have, for example, all five mics will be taken

and a sixth person will come and no one will say, hey, come sit down, come sit down. And instead of asking somebody to leave, he'll say, share a mic with Kristen. And that's a problem. And that's a problem. All right, but none of that happened just now

and it was kind of a non sequitur. Right, but you're so afraid of telling a guest to leave that you'd rather tell your co-host to leave. Can we edit this part out? Edit it out. This definitely has to be in the show. Edit out this goal.

We're going to add out your ISBN crack. That's going to be in the show. Thank you for the callback. That's a sign of a good joke. No, I really thought you'd want to do the spot. I know you love... And this is while you're playing therapist here,

what Dan doesn't also understand is that I was taught to be more gracious to my guests than to myself, and by extension, that means Dan, so that if there's a guest here, I have to, that he has to get priority over you, simply because that's how you be gracious to a guest. You're going to witness a historic moment on the show, no? Yeah. I think you may be right. Oh, wow.

All right. So anyway, Mark, we're actually at the 60-minute spot, and I envy you. I'm a huge political junkie. I was going to say, this seems like a dream job. Yeah, and I... Let me share with you a joke that I wrote at the very end of his presidency that I didn't have the courage to share with him.

Okay. The joke was, maybe I screwed up. Traditionally, presidents raise money in the Oval Office and have sex in the Lincoln bedroom. Exactly. He wouldn't. That's a joke I wanted to pitch, but I knew I'd be escorted

to the curb had I done it yeah no that's I think that would be too self that's a bridge too far a bridge to the 21st century

too far what's your favorite joke that you wrote for him oh my god what's your tombstone joke wow that's a good one I literally have a tombstone joke

but it never worked I'll go back I'll tell you the best joke the best joke. That William Henry Harrison joke is a good archetype for what you try to do with these jokes. I laughed out loud at the Al Gore joke. The funniest joke I wrote for Al Gore is, Al Gore is so boring, his Secret Service codename is Al Gore.

Oh, yeah, that's good. But anyway, actually, and the story tells a story about how I came to quote-unquote write that joke, and I'll leave it at that. Okay. But in any event, writing these jokes is a great exercise and a great privilege and a great opportunity to kind of lend the sensibility to these political, these powerful people to help

them express themselves in ways these people need help sometimes, and they need the help of comedians and people with comic brains to kind of say the things that are hard to say. And you don't get that many opportunities to do them. And when they come, on days like the White House Correspondents Dinner,

they're really well advised to fully embrace it. All these jokes work along a risk-reward ratio, and the greater the risk, the greater the reward. Yeah, I mean, I could imagine that you had to have balls of steel because you know that for the president to succeed, he has to be self-deprecating. But pitching a self-deprecating joke, he could find that insulting. Well, especially this president. Bill Clinton was not open to the idea of self-deprecating jokes. And I was the coal mine, the canary, the canary in the coal mine who had to bring them into the coal mine.

And then he goes on stage and he tells the joke. And if it bombs, it's like off with his head, right? But if it kills, it's like, oh, I guess I really am. Well, that's the thing about politicians. That's true, too. Politicians intuitively understand that a great joke will last a week, and the wrong joke will be reprinted in their obituary. And they understand that's why they're so risk-averse. And if you can move them along to continue

towards greater risk, there is reward to be had. And that's the craft of it, to writing the joke that minimizes the risk and still reaps the reward. Now when you talk about self-deprecating jokes, another factor is when you present a self-deprecating joke to Clinton, you're basically

insulting him already. That's exactly right. It's like somebody came up to me and said, I wrote you a joke. You know how you're unfuckable? Anyway. But you know what? That's right. But when you're doing that, it's kind of like a mind meld. The moment when I was writing these speeches, we were both Bill Clinton, okay? And I am just lending him the part of my brain that I felt he needed.

You look a little bit like Bill. And I said, please take this because you need it. That was really kind of how I approached writing the jokes. I had a band at the time, and his brother, Roger Clinton, came and sat in with my band, by the way. Are we wrapping? We're wrapping up. We're wrapping up. So you can find out more about him on soundbitesrus.com.

Soundbiteinstitute.com. Soundbiteinstitute.com. What was the site that you told the story on? The Moth. Moth. The Moth. Yeah, the Moth is a very popular storytelling thing. There's also a story

on the cover of this book that's no longer in print called Clinton and Me. There's a picture of me holding an egg timer. There's also a story on the moth about Bill Clinton. It's called Bill Clinton and the Egg Timer. It's all about bringing to him a joke, a self-deprecating joke that he

could not have hated more. And the audacity I had, the stupidity I had to bring it back to him and fearlessly say, no, you really need to tell this joke and explain why. He was not happy at the time, told the joke, it worked out fine. What's the joke? What's the joke? It was a sight gag. After a State of the Union address he gave in 1994 that went on for an hour and 18 minutes,

and the joke was he was going to show up at the alfalfa dinner, walk out to the podium, take an egg timer out of his pocket, set it to five minutes and put it down, and just let the room laugh at that. And then as the speech unfolded, the clock would go off. He'd give himself more time? He'd keep on giving himself more time. That's very funny. That was the organizing structure of the joke, where he'd keep on giving himself more time. That's very funny. That was the organizing structure of the joke

where he just keeps on giving himself more time after the end time. He wound up doing a very truncated version of that joke that the only laugh of the night was one of the worst nights of his presidency. He gave a tone-deaf speech that went over like a lead balloon. The only half left.

Careful, Hillary hasn't chosen her comedy writer yet. And it's the story I told that is basically the most harrowing moments of my life was being in a room with President Clinton as I'm telling him why he needs to tell this joke about the egg timer. He turns on his heels, walks out of the room, goes up to the podium, rewrites a speech in real time. He's dying up there like you've never seen a comedian die. And as he's dying, he reaches for this egg timer

out of his pocket and says, maybe this will help. And he gets his only half laugh of the night. It was a pity laugh. It wasn't even a real laugh. But I got, after the speech, five days later, I got a note in the mail that said,

Dear Mark, thanks for your help with the alfalfa dinner. You're a funny man. The egg timer was great. Which was as close to an apology as I could ever hope to have and more than I deserved. But he did apologize.

I read that as an apology. He knew that. He should have gone with it. He should have had faith in the idea that he should be making fun of. He didn't want to concede the idea that the speech went on too long. That idea offended him, made him angry. He didn't want to give it credence. Conceding the obvious costs nothing. What does John Fogarty have to do with any of this?

Conceding the obvious costs nothing and gives back something. Anyway, thank you for coming. Absolutely. Congratulations on witnessing history firsthand. You're a primary source to history. That's got to make you feel good. Mark Katz,

Clinton and me. It's out of print, huh? You can get it on eBay for 11 cents, like I said. But you don't get any more money out of it. I've made 11 cents, I put it in the bank

and I'm done. I hope that you get hired by Hillary. Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Kristen. And check out Misery Loves Company with Lenny Marcus

and Kevin Brennan. Good night, everybody. Good night. Good night. Thank you.